Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew, and the Backlash in Britain, With Chris Ryan

Summary

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"Wait a Second..."

Episode: Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew, and the Backlash in Britain, With Chris Ryan

Host: The Ringer (Jason Concepcion & Tyler Parker)
Guest: Chris Ryan
Date: February 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jason, Tyler, and guest Chris Ryan go deep into the explosive fallout in British politics—and the broader global elite—from the latest Jeffrey Epstein file releases. Focusing on the recent arrests of Prince Andrew and former Labour power broker Peter Mandelson, they analyze the network of corruption, complicity, and coverup that shapes both public perception and high-level consequences. The discussion ranges from the surreal details of the investigations to the labyrinthine interplay of British media, politics, and elite culture. Along the way, the hosts examine why Britain’s response differs from America’s, how overwhelming scandals fry the public's ability to process them, and why justice so often evades the powerful.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Parallels in Elite Corruption

• Opening Story: Jason recounts the tale of Inspector Joshua Minihan, who uncovered aristocratic child trafficking in 1880s London—only to be erased from history along with the evidence, while the powerful walked free ([00:06]).
  • "None of Jeffrey's powerful clients serve a day. The victims never see justice. And you, Inspector Minihan, the man who reported it first, you are already gone. Erased from the force. A footnote. Sound familiar?" – Jason ([01:41])
• Draws a direct line to the Epstein case, arguing that systemic immunity for the elite is nothing new.

2. Britain's Unique Media & Political Culture

• Chris explains distinctions in the British press and how the density and intimacy of the UK’s political/media scene affects public scandal ([03:25]).
  • "You have a lot of journalists covering a few amount of people, especially in the world of politics.” – Tyler ([03:20])
• Contrasts with the U.S.'s more dispersed and polarized press dynamics.

3. Epstein Files Fallout: Who Was Arrested and Why

• Recent Arrests: Prince Andrew and Peter Mandelson were both arrested—formerly untouchable figures, now facing real legal and reputational peril ([04:27]).
  • Prince Andrew: Ex-royal, long-linked to Epstein and Virginia Giuffre's allegations. His infamous "I don't sweat" Newsnight defense gets roasted ([05:57], [06:23]).
  • Peter Mandelson: Labour's "Prince of Darkness", behind-the-scenes architect in UK politics, now accused of financial wrongdoing and information leaks to Epstein ([06:54]).
    • Notably: Mandelson accepted at least $75,000 from Epstein ([10:56]).

4. How Mandelson & Andrew Enabled Epstein’s Interests

• Detailed examples of secret briefings, lobbying, and financial tips Mandelson delivered to Epstein ([11:57]-[13:57]):
  • Leaked news of public asset sales, business lending assessments, banker bonus tax negotiations, Volcker Rule lobbying with U.S. figures, early bailout info, and even the timing of leadership resignations.
• Prince Andrew, as trade envoy, forwarded sensitive information about global business, Afghanistan reconstruction details (with a focus on gold/uranium), and sought investment schemes for personal and Epstein benefit ([22:08]-[24:31]).
  • "Basically, Andrew looking for any kind of like private equity investments for himself and for Epstein that they could dip their beaks into." – Jason ([24:18])
  • "A lot of dipping of beaks.” – Tyler ([24:31])
• Sarah Ferguson, Andrew’s ex-wife, is revealed asking Epstein for rent money in the emails ([26:55]).

5. Files, Information Overload, and the Public Response

• The release of millions of DOJ files in January 2026 has created a deluge of partially redacted primary documents ([13:57]-[15:17]).
  • “There’s a sensation…like, I can’t believe I’m sitting, like, courtside for this. And we all are.” – Tyler ([15:17])
  • The challenge: separating real revelations from chaos, rumor, and conspiracy theory.
    • “You read some of this stuff and…it’s Qanon for normies.” – Tyler ([30:57])
• The hosts discuss their personal (and nearly addictive) compulsion to sort through the files, and the brain-melting proximity to real "raw intelligence."
• Many figures in finance, politics, and media—such as Katherine Rummler of Goldman Sachs and even Noam Chomsky—are revealed with shocking intimacy in Epstein’s network ([16:11]-[16:25]).

6. Media Reluctance and Conspiratorial Thinking

• Despite bombshells, major UK and US outlets cover the story in subdued, procedural fashion:
  • “The hesitancy is some sort of fear of something.” – Jason ([34:13])
  • "If everybody knew what some people knew, none of this would work anymore." – Tyler ([34:17])
• The hosts reflect on how the slow churn of big media encourages online conspiracy and burnout, contrasting the old Watergate "once a day" media cycle with today’s information firehose ([38:16]-[39:29]).

7. British Political vs. U.S. Political Dynamics

• Britain's parliamentary system, multi-party landscape, and less rigid political loyalty create greater vulnerability for leaders such as PM Keir Starmer, who may be ousted by internal or external pressures ([18:07]-[20:07]).
  • “You have these upstart and more recent creations…It’s not as much of a zero sum thing as it is over here [in the U.S.].” – Tyler ([18:48])
• Discussion of Labour's left-right splits and Corbyn/Sanders parallels ([21:04]).

8. Royal Untouchability and Literary Surrealism

• Andrew’s arrest—the first royal detained since the 17th century—is depicted as both staggering and almost satirical in its details ([21:47]-[27:26]).
  • “This failson, possible sex pest prince, fucking gallivanting around Afghanistan and being like, how can we get well here?” – Tyler ([26:24])
  • Literary comparisons (Hilary Mantel, Armando Iannucci, The Crown, Elmore Leonard) underline the surreal drama.
• Power maneuvering in the royal family: Charles, perhaps pressured by William, cuts Andrew loose, signaling a public reckoning ([27:29]-[28:37]).

9. Metacommentary: The Conspiracy Feedback Loop

• The show repeatedly returns to the psychological effects on themselves and listeners:
  • “It’s impossible to not be a conspiracy theorist at times.” – Jason ([30:19])
  • Referencing the intentional overwhelming of the public (“Steve Bannon flood the zone” tactics) ([53:42]).

10. Justice, Cynicism, and the Possibility of Real Consequences

• Will anything come of the UK arrests? Sober skepticism, as echoed in Marina Hyde’s Guardian column: “Don’t get your hopes up that anything more than these guys getting perp walked is gonna happen with them.” ([41:51])
• UK system incentivizes some visible accountability, if only for political survival; U.S. remains more static.
• “It makes your brain melt where like, you know, all this bad stuff has happened and yet nothing is being done to like, try to figure it out.” – Chris ([43:06])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mandelson:
  "He feels like a character sometimes in a spy novel, sometimes in a tragic satire of the British upper class." – Tyler ([10:21])
• On the overwhelming nature of the files:
  "You can feel your brain dying as you read about it. And you can also feel like…the kind of endurance test that it is maybe is part of the point." – Tyler ([53:09])
• On the sense of societal fragility:
  "If everybody knew what some people knew, none of this would work anymore." – Tyler ([34:17])
• On undercoverage and secrecy:
  “It almost feels like the hesitancy [in mainstream coverage] is some sort of fear of something.” – Jason ([34:13])

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|--------------| | Minihan/Jeffries historical intro | 00:06–02:02 | | British media culture | 03:25–04:27 | | Arrests and Epstein fallout | 04:27–10:18 | | Mandelson's emails/leaks | 11:57–13:57 | | File overload, raw intelligence | 13:57–16:11 | | American/British scandal contrasts | 18:07–20:07 | | Prince Andrew’s activities | 21:28–24:31 | | Royal/elite immunity | 24:31–27:29 | | Conspiracy, information chaos | 30:16–35:17 | | Sober outlook on justice | 41:40–43:06 | | Lucid Score/summary | 52:01–53:39 |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is fast-paced, sardonic, and laced with literary and pop-culture references. The hosts and guest move fluidly between analytical, darkly humorous commentary and earnest distress at the real-world ramifications of elite impunity and public exhaustion.

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Final Assessment: LU.C.I.D Score

• Legs (Staying Power): Maxed – this story isn’t going anywhere.
• Unintentional Comedy: Almost negative—the subject is too sinister, though Andrew’s infamous media moments get some gallows laughs.
• Sinisterness: Off the charts.
• Intrigue/Danger: Unrivaled, with global implications and vast uncertainty about what, if anything, will change.

“Take unintentional comedy out of it. It’s a 16 out of 16. There’s no question. It’s got every dial maxed and will only continue to do so.” – Jason ([52:54])

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For anyone looking to understand the Epstein files’ impact on Britain—and its resonance with global power structures—this episode is a lucid, wry, and unflinching primer that balances facts, theory, and the mind-melting fatigue of witnessing history in real time.

Transcript

[Jason Concepcion]

It's 1884 and you are Inspector Jeremiah Minihan of the Metropolitan Police. And you have just made the worst mistake of your career. You did your job. You reported Mary Jeffries to your superiors. Ms. Jeffries runs a network of brothels. These are high end establishments for aristocrats, members of Parliament, officers of the guards. Among her several establishments is a clearinghouse where children are prepared for shipment to the rest of Europe. Later, her driver tells investigators King Leopold II of Belgium is a client. The Prince of Wales is also eventually named as a client. You report all of this and within days you are forced out of the police. A private prosecution is brought against Jeffreys in 1885. But you're not optimistic. And. And you're right, because the fix is in. She's brought to trial, but the evidence is never presented in court. Jeffries eventually pleads guilty to keeping a disorderly house. Her only punishment, a 200 pound fine for child trafficking, and walks away to continue her career. So you go to the press, you find an editor named W.T. stead and you hand him everything. He does something actually insane that we don't have time for today. But his investigation proves the facts of the case. Stead publishes the story. Five weeks later, Parliament raises the age of consent from 13 to 16. Stead would go on to die on the Titanic. And that's unrelated. But none of Jeffrey's powerful clients serve a day. The victims never see justice. And you, Inspector Minihan, the man who reported it first, you are already gone. Erased from the force. A footnote. Sound familiar? It should. Because this kind of thing has been going on a long time. This is. Wait a second, Epstein. Fallout in English politics.

[Tyler Parker]

Like many podcasts, the why Files covers conspiracies, aliens, time travel, ancient civilizations. Some are very serious about this stuff. They believe every detail, even if they don't quite add up. Others tear a story apart. What fun is that? The why Files is different. First we explore the mystery. Then together we separate fact from fiction and see what's left. Some legends can't be debunked, and those are my favorites.

[Jason Concepcion]

The Y Files is on Spotify or

[Tyler Parker]

anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Jason Concepcion]

The X Files said the truth is out there.

[Tyler Parker]

But the Y Files, the truth is right here.

[Jason Concepcion]

Hi, I'm Jason Concepcion. That's my co host, Tyler Parker. We're delighted to be joined by CR himself, Chris Ryan.

[Tyler Parker]

What's up, guys?

[Jason Concepcion]

It's wonderful to see you. We have you here today because we're talking about England.

[Tyler Parker]

In a matter of speaking in a

[Jason Concepcion]

manner of speaking and you when I think Anglophile, who do I know that's an Anglophile?

[Tyler Parker]

I think Chris Ryan, I guess it's me dog. I'll wear it. I got it. You know, there's a family connection there. My dad was or is or was British. His family moved from Ireland in the forties over to England. And you know, I've got uncles and cousins over there. And I'm a fan, you know, like I like the music, I like the tv, I like the films. And I am a avid reader of their press, which I think will come up in a major way in this conversation as we delve into the English

[Jason Concepcion]

side of Jeff, what is their press like as opposed to our press?

[Tyler Parker]

Well, I think that there's an ideological spectrum and it goes from borderline right wing or quite right wing to fairly far left. There's also a variety of different styles of journalism that you get. So you get these things called the red tops, which are essentially the tabloids. Closest to thing we probably have here would be New York Post, things like that. Pretty sensationalistic. Often trying to motivate a populace who might be commuting, might be reading this like at their, at their jobs and being like, I'm mad about this now. And then you've got things like the Guardian or the Times that are a little bit more higher brow, I guess what I would say in terms of their journalistic aims. But it's really fascinating because like all things in England, what you realize when you go over there, but also even from afar is like it's just not a very big place, relatively speaking, to what we're experienced with. And so you have a lot of journalists covering a few amount of people, especially in the world of politics.

[Jason Concepcion]

Huh. That's very interesting. Well, we are here because in the last four days recording this on Tuesday, February 24, the British police have arrested two of the most prominent men in English public life. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew, he's been stripped of his titles. Brother of King Charles and Peter Mandelson, AKA the Prince of Darkness, former Labor power broker, architect of the Cool Britannia, Tony Blair era of British politics, until recently Britain's ambassador to the United States, which is incredible caused a lot of problems for Keir Starmer and. And both were arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Neither has been charged as of yet. That may change. And the trigger was the January 30th DOJ release of millions of files related to the Epstein case. Mostly emails in which it has been revealed that both men were involved in various leakings of information to Mr. Epstein that were of a financial nature. And of course, Epstein's ties go back with Andrew for a long time. Virginia Giuffre has alleged that she was trafficked to Epstein at age 17. We should say he strenuously denies this.

[Chris Ryan]

There is a picture though, of the two of them.

[Jason Concepcion]

He said it was Photoshopped, but yes, it is clearly real. He also said in a now infamous interview that when Mr. Frey, who's now deceased, died by suicide, described his sweat, that this simply could not be him because due to events of the Falkland War, he no longer sweats. He's got that medical condition that he no longer sweats.

[Chris Ryan]

She referenced that they had danced together and that he was sweating profusely. And he said, well, that's interesting because

[Jason Concepcion]

I never sweat, I never sweat. That can't be me. Yeah, pretty seismic events. Things that I think a lot of people here in the US are like, I see what you've given, Lord, to other countries, please give that to us. But you know, I think a lot of people know who Prince, the former Prince Andrew is. But Mandelson, I think is a new name. Yeah, tell us about him.

[Tyler Parker]

So Peter Mandelson is a longtime figure in the history of labor politics in England. He pops up for my knowledge and for my interest level like in the early 80s as like, kind of like comms director for a guy named Neil Kinnick, who was a huge union leader in England in the 80s. And if anybody is interested in this period of time, which features heavily, a really, really tumultuous, at times violent, really complicated strike, coal mine strike that happened. There's this novel called GB84 by the writer David Peace, who also wrote the Red Riding trilogy, which you may have heard about, and has written a bunch of books about soccer, football, about Manchester United and Liverpool. And he's a wonderful, wonderful writer. So if anybody wants to read about the coal mine strikes, check that out. Mandelson kind of emerges out of this my us this, this area. And like a lot of people in their lives, I think starts out perhaps as an ideologue or as like a, you know, a hard charging extreme, not an extremist, but, you know, somebody who's got a lot of youthful beliefs. And then over the course of time is, at least in the more literary way of looking at this, seduced by power, seduced by access, seduced by money, seduced by the pleasures of the world, and becomes a kind of man in the shadows guy behind the guy for Blair. And then Gordon Brown. Subsequently, he has had multiple falls from grace.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yes. Two. Two before this.

[Tyler Parker]

Yes. And even looking at articles about Mandelson before his most recent troubles, it's astonishing because he's like, who would have guessed it? Would have guessed it that I'd be back.

[Jason Concepcion]

Sure. Never. Count me out.

[Tyler Parker]

He just, he had just done a Financial Times art interview, which is just amazing because it's just like the guy from the FT on a train with Mandelson to Manchester, right? And as they're like, pulling into Manchester, the FT guy is just like, got to talk about Epstein. And he's just like, fuck off. That's a. Yeah, that's a Financial Times obsession. I'm not talking about him. It's like, guess what, bro? You're going to have to talk about him. I think he's worth noting that Mandelson's connection to Epstein and a lot of his, I guess, alleged or confirmed wrongdoings often concern corruption.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

More than any other. The more sort of lascivious stuff that Andrew's been accused of. So Mandelson is an example of people in Epstein's orbit. And they're, they're, they're very fascinating to me because they're the people who are like, I just, I just love being connected to everything. And I like having my, my fingers and all these pies. And I like, if I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna get. I get to stay on a yacht or if I do this, I get to stay at this hotel or at this place. Or maybe my boyfriend needs a, you know, to, to get his classes paid for and I don't have the cash.

[Jason Concepcion]

Right. Watch me pull a string. This is cool.

[Tyler Parker]

And it's just string pulling. And it's just like that line between the way I think a lot of people understand the world to work, where it's like people in rooms making deals and scratching each other's backs and favors and networking versus crime versus corruption versus self dealing. And he's an incredible example of that. And it's.

[Jason Concepcion]

It.

[Tyler Parker]

I look at him almost. This guy is particular in this whole orbit of, Of Epstein characters as the most, like, sort of literary, literarily potent. Like, he feels like a character sometimes in a spy novel, sometimes in a tragic satire of the British upper class.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah. Like Hilary Mantell. If Hillary Mantell would live like another 40 years, would write about this figure,

[Chris Ryan]

she'd be sinking her teeth in, because

[Jason Concepcion]

he really is, like, operatic in his scope.

[Chris Ryan]

Epstein paid him at least $75,000 that we know about.

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

But that's what's in the. But their connections often pop up around moments where you really don't want to be connected to him, you know, and so I think one of the things that he's been accused of is sharing essentially state secrets with Epstein for Epstein's financial benefit. But even when you read the emails which, you know, I, I hand up have, there's like this way that they're talking that's just like. It's the way guys. It's a way. I imagine, like reporters who know a lot about the NBA share secrets with each other. It's like, hey, man, everybody knows that was cute. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing where it's just like, I'm trying to talk to this guy, I'm gonna let you know what he says. But in the meantime, like, look out for this. Now. The things that he's doing are real bad. And it makes me pretty much like borderline, like, maybe we should start the revolution.

[Jason Concepcion]

Oh yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

But it's not unfamiliar for sure.

[Jason Concepcion]

Like, okay, so here are some of the things that Mr. Mendelsohn informed Jeffrey Epstein about. He wrote to Jeffrey Epstein about a Gordon Brown proposition that the government would sell roughly 20 billion pounds in public assets to reduce the national debt. This was in 2009, in the heat of the financial crisis. He forwarded it to Epstein with the note. Interesting note that's gone to the pm and Mendelssohn wrote back when Epstein asked what assets would be sold. Land, property, I guess. The next is a detailed Internal Assessment of UK Business Lending. Same Period of Time, 2009, written by a minister who played a central role in the crisis response with a reply from the Prime Minister's principal private secretary. The third is a banker bonus tax lobbying from 2009. The Chancellor had announced a 50% tax on bankers bonuses. And within days Mendelsohn was telling Epstein that he was, quote, trying hard to amend the tax.

[Tyler Parker]

Well, Epstein was advocating for a certain kind of tax, right? I mean, like, this is where you start just being like, how many threads do I want to.

[Jason Concepcion]

When Epstein asked if Jamie Dimon should call the Chancellor again, Mandelson replied yes, and mildly threaten. And Dimon did make the call. The fourth is lobbying related to the Volcker Rule. From March and April 2010, Epstein asked Mendelsohn to lobby Larry Summers, Obama's chief economic advisor at the time, on behalf of JP Morgan. Epstein wrote explicitly, I can't do it directly. The fifth is the eurozone bailout on May 9, 2010, Epstein told Mandelson he was hearing about a 500 billion euro rescue package and Mendelsohn said should be announced tonight. And the sixth is he tipped Epstein off on Gordon Brown's resignation.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, I mean, so this is sort of like the other half of There's. To me, like, the Epstein stuff is divided into two. So, like, let's just, like, we'll talk it out by saying, like, you know, these files get released a couple weeks ago in the end of January, I was in Boston. I was. I was doing like a live show out in Boston, and it was like six degrees. So it was essentially like, me, my laptop in the hotel room. And it was, you know, like, you kind of can't really wrap your mind around it. When you start sorting through this stuff and start looking through it like it is almost built to be. There's almost like a difficulty in perception with it because of the way that the actual files are, like, released. So you're like, what am I supposed to do?

[Jason Concepcion]

Search?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

Am I supposed. Can you click next?

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

Do I just start looking for names? Then you're, like, relying on social media to feed you and funnel you towards stuff. Then you also have to start questioning your own sanity and your own priorities where you're like, how much time am I going to spend on this?

[Jason Concepcion]

You texted me at one point a couple weeks ago, how deep are you in? Yeah, man.

[Tyler Parker]

I was like, but that's the thing, right? It's like, I also think that there's a sensation for anybody who's ever been, like, a fan of espionage fiction, where you feel like there aren't very many times in my life where I've been, like, this close to what feels like, obviously very redacted and mediated, but, like, raw intelligence.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, right.

[Tyler Parker]

And so there is a cheap thrill, and there's also, like, a giant tragedy because of the crimes that he's alleged to have committed. So you're just like, I can't believe I'm sitting, like, courtside for this. You know what I mean? And we all are. And there's 10 players on the court, and we can't really see three of them, but for the most part, like, we are feeling all of it. And there's the mundane, there's the trivial, and then there's the embarrassing, and then there is the incredibly criminal, and then there's the parts that, like, you really start getting into, like, lizard people territory and you're like. And I think Mandelson kind of, like, threads through a bunch of that. Like, a bunch of the people who've come out of these files that I find fascinating are the ones that are friends or close with or associated with Epstein, despite everything, where they're just like, oh, yeah, oh, Uncle Jeff, thanks for the bag. And you're just like, are you kidding me? Like, this is way after. Like, everybody kind of knows the deal with this dude. And you're still like, getting Fendi purses from this dude.

[Chris Ryan]

Chomsky.

[Jason Concepcion]

You're referen Chomsky. I mean, it goes the gamut, left, right, up, down, like, everybody in power, no matter. But you were referencing the bag as Katherine Rummler.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Former general counsel of Goldman Sachs until very recently. She's in there a ton of times, calling him Uncle Jeffrey, asking him for gifts, asking him for bags.

[Tyler Parker]

Relationship advice. Relationship advice with press releases.

[Jason Concepcion]

And this is like, it's like asking

[Chris Ryan]

a match for, like, advice on how to put out a fire.

[Jason Concepcion]

This is all post the 2008 conviction. And she's, you know, and these are the kind of things that launder. Like, you could imagine somebody getting into his orbit right in mid-2000s, being like, well, how bad could he be casting Rumbler is like, larry Summers know this guy? Yeah, yeah. Jamie Dimon's like, got him on speed, though. Like, how bad could he be? And then, well, turns out, like, maybe one of the worst ever.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, maybe. Not able to answer the question, are you Satan? You know, he was just kind of like. Well, you know, I. I think also, like, when we get into the Mandelson stuff and you talk about the way that England has responded to these files and the release and, you know, as we're kind of recording this, they're now going to start releasing their own files in relationship to Mandelson's dealings as an ambassador. What Keir Starmer, the current Prime Minister of England, knew when, you know, there's already been the beginnings of. I wouldn't quite call it a purge, but, like, they're starting to shed dudes over there where it's like, hey, man, you're going to jump on this grenade. Morgan McSweeney, who's sort of was Keir Starmer's chief of staff, left government a couple weeks ago, saying that it was like, him who told Starmer, you gotta hire Peter Mandelson

[Chris Ryan]

resignations. Don't even look at him as he's learned his lessons.

[Tyler Parker]

But the thing that's interesting about the way that it's being discussed over there, from what I can tell, and also the way political pressure is different over there is because of the parliamentary system. Because, yes, Conservatives and Labor are, I guess, traditionally and even in the present and still probably thought of as the dominant parties in British political life. You do have these upstart and more recent creations, whether it's reform, which is Nigel Farage's kind of like way more far right party, and they've outflanked the Tories to the right. And then you've got the Lib Dems and the Greens who kind of occupy the center and the left. And it's not as much of a zero sum thing as it is over here.

[Jason Concepcion]

Right.

[Tyler Parker]

Where you get the feeling like every Republican has kind of got like a death pact with the Trump thing.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, we're going down with the shit.

[Tyler Parker]

There's like three guys who are like, I might speak up about this, but everybody else is pretty much just like, look, and I signed up for it and wherever it takes me, it takes me. And they're like, I'm not going to break ranks now.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Thomas Massey is a weirdo on that side for, to them for even thinking about defecting.

[Tyler Parker]

And when you think about all the things in his biography that have led him to this point where it's, his wife passed away, he's, you know, Trump's primarying him, all this stuff where he's like, I got nothing to lose. And like, in fact, crazier things have happened. We'll probably like, I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Massey print for president. You know what I mean?

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, yeah, totally.

[Tyler Parker]

So there's this. Because of the duopoly of the two parties here, you basically have like a more limited amount of political pressure, at least externally, to do different things. And I think in England you're seeing like, reform is making Starmer release certain files. The Lib Dems are making, like, reform. Like, there's just these, like, cross currents of political pressure that I find fascinating to read about in that way.

[Jason Concepcion]

Starmer, according to a lot of the things I've read, certainly there is some supposition that he's not long for this job at this point.

[Tyler Parker]

That's the other thing, is that prime ministers can basically lose the confidence of their parties. And if that happens, like what happened with the Conservatives during the Johnson truss, you know, one after another run. I don't even honestly completely understand how an election gets triggered versus how someone can just be removed as the head of the party and then replaced with somebody else. There's a pretty, like, large rival to Starmer, Angela Rayner, who I I don't know if that person would be the next in line, if Stormer to lose his job necessarily. But yeah, I mean, like, there's also some parallels between the way I think the American left has been shaped, shaped over the last 15 years, where there's this schism in. In the left, where it's like, for us, it was Bernie. I think for a lot of people it was like Bernie was this very, like, kind of. It was a catalyst event for a generation of Democrats who were like, that was the guy. And I feel like he got jobbed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And I think a lot of people feel that way about Corbyn in. Jeremy Corbyn in England, where it was like, Jeremy Corbyn was brought down by his own party and people around him. And I don't necessarily know enough about Corbyn and how he was governing and whether it would have worked at all, but there are similarities, I think, of what happens when someone from a extremely left background gets too close to the seat of power.

[Jason Concepcion]

Let's talk about the former Prince Andrew, Andrew Mountbatten, who was arrested recently on his birthday.

[Chris Ryan]

Happy 66.

[Jason Concepcion]

Happy 66. My guy. Incredible photograph of him.

[Tyler Parker]

What's the actual factoid here is that it's the first time since the 17th century that a royal has been arrested.

[Jason Concepcion]

Correct. First time since Charles I, who was the king during the English Civil War, deposed by the parliamentarians.

[Chris Ryan]

The distinction I read is that he's the first senior royal in modern history to be arrested.

[Jason Concepcion]

I think it was Anne had some problem with her dogs. Remember the dogs?

[Tyler Parker]

The dogs attacked somebody at a park or something.

[Jason Concepcion]

But that was like, not. She just got a talking to. So that was like not a real thing. So Andrew is in trouble for various emails that he forwarded and deal details that he forwarded to Epstein. I will say that it seems to me that Andrew was a trade representative, which it seems to me some people in British politics consider that a way to deal with insurgents in their own party. You're causing problems.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's put them in a trade envoy or whatever.

[Jason Concepcion]

Trade envoy? Nice little sinecure, put you out of the way. That said, if that is the case, Andrew was hustling to try and find stuff he could give to Epstein. He. Let's see, on his first set of tours as a trade mission envoy, he went to Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong and Shenzhen in China and basically forwarded Epstein a bunch of details about the meetings with a note, overseas bids, basically telling him what's going on. The second, and I think the more consequential one is a confidential brief from the Provincial Reconstruction team in Helmand Province, Afghanistan.

[Tyler Parker]

Jesus Christ.

[Jason Concepcion]

So obviously a lot of construction and reconstruction was hoping to take root in that area and a lot of investment opportunities. And so he forwarded this to.

[Chris Ryan]

To Epstein, investment opportunities, particularly in gold and uranium.

[Jason Concepcion]

And he forwarded this to Jeffrey for quote, comments, views or ideas as to whom I could also usefully show this to attract some interest. Over 100 British soldiers had been killed in Helmand up to that point. And the third is a pattern of financial communications running from 2010-20, 2011. Discussions about a joint venture called the Green Park Group, which is an $8 billion cash for oil deal in Abu Dhabi and other things. Basically, Andrew looking for any kind of like private equity investments for himself and for Epstein that they could dip their beaks into.

[Tyler Parker]

A lot of dipping of beaks.

[Jason Concepcion]

Lot of dipping of beaks, which.

[Chris Ryan]

You gotta wet it.

[Jason Concepcion]

You know what's interesting to me is like to your point about the last time a royal was. Was arrested, it's actually quite hard to do. So there isn't a State immunity act of 1978. So you can't arrest the King. You also can't arrest a royal in the. You can't do any arrest in the presence of the king, which I guess also means the king's real estate. So any of the king's properties. And so there's several theories. One theory is that King Charles had a heads up, which he has denied, but that he had a heads up and was like, yeah, go ahead. And the second is because of the kind of like steady taking of his title, stripping him of his jobs, you know, evicting him from his residence that had basically given the authorities the necessary leverage to go in and arrest him without telling.

[Tyler Parker]

Speaking of the literary qualities of these stories, the. I believe he was stripped of his title or his military titles by his mother, Queen Elizabeth, just prior to her dying.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And it's like there's something like incredibly like, like they should do another season of the Crown. Just about that.

[Jason Concepcion]

Well, it was apparently her favorite basically

[Tyler Parker]

on her deathbed, being like, you're fucking out, you know, and. And that is like you, you wouldn't. If some of the stuff that you say and some of the stuff that you come across, whether you're reading aggregated versions of it or actual hard copies of these emails, you're like, I don't know that this would make it out of a story meeting for a Fast and Furious. And it's just like this failson Possible sex pest Prince fucking gallivanting around Afghanistan and being like, how can we get well here?

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And you just be like, well, this is like. This is Armando Ianishi. Couldn't even conceive of this. It's like, there's not even a satirical mind in the world. Who could imagine a failed British royal rolling through war zones and emailing an international sex predator and being like, let's get. Let's get money here, man.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think of uranium?

[Jason Concepcion]

They got a lot of uranium over here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, his wife, Sarah Ferguson, former Duchess of York.

[Tyler Parker]

Yes.

[Jason Concepcion]

Is all over the emails being like, jeff, I'm having trouble paying my rent. Like, literally.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

It's nuts. And then after the arrest, literally, I think the day after the arrest, King Charles went to Fashion Week and is photographed in a wonderful photo. He looks quite pleased. I think. What a message to say, like, not only are we gonna cooperate, do it. Do whatever you need to do. Because here I am at Fashion Week, like, sitting with people and applauding as people walk up and down.

[Tyler Parker]

It's a short season for Charles.

[Jason Concepcion]

It's true.

[Tyler Parker]

You know, the Queen lived a long time, Wood. I don't think Chuck is thinking, like, I got 50 years to. To do whatever, and he's trying to

[Chris Ryan]

get it all in.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah. And I think that my impression of what happened between him and Andrew is, like, he did a little bit of, like, Paul Sorvino and Goodfellas, where he's like, now I have to turn my back on you. You know, like.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Tyler Parker]

And now it's. That's it. And now you're. I'm throwing you.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, the statement is very. Big Brother is just done with little brother.

[Jason Concepcion]

The. There's been some reporting by royal watchers, including a journalist named. His last name is Jobson. I forget what his first name is. But some of the scuttlebutt around it being a short season for Charles is that. Sorry, is that William. Prince William was. And I'm sure Prince William's people are feeding this into whatever reporter is reporting this, but that it was Prince William who's like, this guy's a problem. You gotta get rid of him. And that it was King Charles, the father, who was, like, dragging the feet a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, maybe. I mean, what's really fascinating is, like, the extent to which these people try to shape their own narratives and try to shape the way that they're perceived within English life and even by the specific pockets of specific newspapers and how they. You know, like, even mandelson, as we're going to record this had been essentially briefing that the speaker for the House of Lords is the one who had essentially Mandelson was supposed to go in for like a pre. Scheduled like I will talk to the cops about the Epstein stuff. In March, he gets arrested very publicly in his home by the cops before that. And it's like, well, what changed? And he's saying that the House of Lord. The speaker for the House of Lords tipped the Met Metropolitan Police off that I was about to abscond to the British Virgin Islands. Now that is in fact not a place where you. He would still be extradited if that was. There was indeed a crime. If he was tr. I don't know what. Maybe those British Virgin Islands. And he was going to go to like, you know, the part of Florida in annihilation. I have no idea where the. He was going after that area. But the idea was that he was gonna. He was gonna take off.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

Metalson started briefing about this apparently at like 4am the night after he got arrested. He was like on his phone being like, we need to get the word out that like there's a. There's like a setup on me. You know, these guys, it sometimes feels like there's just 18 dudes in the world and they're just like. I mean, they're just emailing about each other all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

These emails filled with misspellings.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, these emails suggest that. I mean, you mentioned how this can melt your brain. It's. I'm finding it impossible to not be a conspiracy theorist at times. Like, I really have to go touch grass numerous times reading things to be like, okay, listen, this one could be a joke. There's like an email in there where I think Ghislaine Maxwell is saying something about the shadow 911 commission. Okay, that's clearly a joke.

[Tyler Parker]

You know, she's a notorious cutout. Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Just hilarious lady.

[Chris Ryan]

Bits for days. Bits for days.

[Jason Concepcion]

But, you know, it's like you read some of this stuff and it's. I feel like I'm in an Elmore Leonard novel or something.

[Tyler Parker]

I wish it was an Elmore Leonard novel. I mean, I feel like, honestly, it's Qanon for normies. Yeah, it's kind of like I spent all this time being like, you guys think of what's happening in a pizza parlor and like that there's what's gonna happen. And it's not that I believe everything that's in the emails and it's not that there are certain things that can't just be circumstantial. And, you know, like, just because somebody works at a bank doesn't mean that Prince Andrew was in a cabal of like, you know, devil worshipers or something like that with that person. But it's weird when it's like, who is Prince Andrew allegedly trying to get clients for Cantor Fitzgerald? Where did Howard Lutnick work? And it's just like, you just start putting together pieces like that and you're like, am I going to be the guy?

[Jason Concepcion]

Like, yeah. Is it?

[Tyler Parker]

Like, what's my job?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. What am I supposed to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And it's funny, it's like, I think you guys are going to not to go into too much of a depression. But I've been reading this novel that's really, really clawing my face off. It's called Shadow Bond. Have you ever heard of this? By Steve Erickson?

[Jason Concepcion]

No.

[Tyler Parker]

Steve Erickson, sort of a contemporary, relatively contemporary sci fi literary fiction author, wrote Days Between Stations and Zero Ville Zero got made into a movie. So Shadow Bond is written in 2017 and it's a somewhat speculative future. Like there's some, some Civil War stuff that's happened in America, but the Twin Towers appear on the South Dakota badlands. Out of nowhere. They just pop up and people start gathering there. They start going. They're like, have you heard that the World Trade center is now standing on an empty plane?

[Chris Ryan]

They pop up like monolith in 2001 style.

[Jason Concepcion]

Like that.

[Tyler Parker]

Yes. And are emitting a sound. And every person hears like a different sound. But it's essentially like part of what's really blowing my mind about this is the way he's chosen a very specific kind of imagery to be like, what would it take to get like a million people to drive to South Dakota and just stare at something? And it kind of, in a way this feels relate, like resonant of that. It's like, what would it take for everybody to kind of slowly lose their mind on their own in their own different way? It's like, what if you just gave them 30 million emails right between some of the most powerful and richest people in the world with very little context.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And then like tons of redaction.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And I find that the disparity between the way it's covered on social media and the way people are investigating it on their own versus the very precise way that the mainstream press has to go about being like, okay, like, this is bullshit. This is real. This is real. And it might be connected to this or it might just be they happened to be related is like, you can't help but choose the fast lane.

[Jason Concepcion]

You can't help but do it. And. And to your point, you know, the. The. The big media outlets, the Times, et cetera, have to move slowly, but feels both like this story has been severely undercovered for years previous to this period, which is true. And that there's a. It almost feels like the hesitancy is some sort of fear of something.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

It's impossible not to fall into that feeling of, like, what are you scared of?

[Tyler Parker]

The idea is that, like, if everybody knew what some people knew, none of this would work anymore.

[Jason Concepcion]

Right, right.

[Tyler Parker]

Like, there was just.

[Chris Ryan]

Society would start to flag the idea

[Tyler Parker]

that, like, essentially the. The. The gears of the world would stop turning if we knew that, you know, this whole time, this and this guy and this guy were like, yeah, let's do Iraq.

[Jason Concepcion]

You know, like, you know, like, I'll give you Iraq, you give us Ukraine, and we'll do that.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah. And so I think there's a part of me that's interested in. As a spy story and as an espionage story, and I find it actually almost calming to read the business press coverage of the files because it's so angled, and it's like, isn't this interesting that this happened? You know, like, so Bloomberg and the Financial Times write about it with a much less salacious kind of voice than, say, you would get on Twitter, where it's just like, obviously, Bohemian Grove is real. Obviously True Detective season one and two were telling us something like, you know, and that's the part that. Where I feel like you can kind of go nuts.

[Jason Concepcion]

The Times. The Financial Times recently did a article in which they used AI to crawl through the files and to. To analyze the most horrifying ones and then the ones that fit into a financial crime pattern, et cetera. And that was cool. I found that very informative. I also am like, shouldn't a human read them? I don't know. It feels weird to me that we put it into a computer. Connected to what? And then it tells you if any of the stuff is scary.

[Tyler Parker]

I had this thing a couple weeks, like, a week ago or so ago.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel.

[Tyler Parker]

This feels very confessional to be like, here are my weird, like, files, habits. This dude was, like, on Twitter was like, I've. I've written a code that's gonna unredact the files. And for, like, three days, it was just like, it's. It's gonna happen. We're gonna, like. He found out that if you make these into PDFs.

[Jason Concepcion]

And I read that one. Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

You're gonna basically be able to unblat, like, take the blackout on all these files. And I was like, let's go. Let's. No, you know, like, let's do it. Like. Like, finally, technology. And then I. I feel like it just, like, fell out of my algorithm. So now I don't know what happened with that. I assume if he had successfully unredacted the Epstein files, I would have heard about it. But it almost reminds me of, like, when NBA transactional stuff really started popping off. And it was like, I can't leave my computer because Kevin Durant might get traded at any moment of my life. And it was like. And my wife would often be like, but wouldn't you just find out? And I was like, yeah, but I have to be here to witness it. Like, I have to.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to refresh it and see it at the top of my.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, I find myself really have to, like, having to hold on to mental guardrails, not fall into a pure pit of conspiracy. Like, I got a video on my algorithm today about the Johnny Ghosh case. I don't know if anybody remembers this. Johnny Ghosh is like a paperboy that disappeared in the 80s. There's his mom, who is clearly, like, broken by this event, is convinced that he came to the house in his 20s to tell her what happened. And there was, I believe, a Netflix documentary that has since been taken down. And I got this video that was like, they've scrubbed this video from the Internet. The documentary is gone. And I'm like, probably because a lot of it is clearly false and is the hallucinations of a woman who's been traumatized by this event.

[Chris Ryan]

Grief and can't.

[Jason Concepcion]

You know, and not a lot of sources behind it. But the thing is, like, the broad outlines of it outlined with so many of the things that we're grappling with right now that I could see how it feels like they're scrumming it all. Everything that could lead you to the truth, they're taking it all away, including the Johnny Ghosh case. He's been part of this cabal. He was a victim of this cabal. And maybe, like, I don't know, but probably what happened is the documentary is, like, has very little basis in fact. And so they pulled it.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, I mean, I was. I. I went on Bill's show a couple a week ago or so, and we were talking about Burner Gate. We were just talking about Katie's. The Katie group texts. And he was like, are we, Pat? Are we, like, out of the era of Gates and into the era of, like, files? And I was like, I think the reason why it feels that way is because we no longer have a reliable. Not only a source of. Of. Of, like, media oversight over, like, okay, we're gonna take all this stuff and we're gonna order it and make you understand the importance. But it's. There's not even an orderly rhythm to it. Like, because you think about what it must have been like to read the Washington Post in the New York Times during Watergate was once a day, right? And then you have the news at night, and they may talk about it. They may have their own reporting, or they may just be like, here's a summary of what Woodward and Bernstein said today. Here's the White House's response. And now whether, you know, that still in my brain is probably how we're supposed to receive information, right? Is like, someone put it on a piece of paper. The really important story had a big font, and this less important story had a smaller font in the back of sports. And that's how, like, the world should be translated to us. But instead, now I'm like, pure, raw, undoctored intel.

[Jason Concepcion]

Put on your hard hat. We're going back in the mine. And then 2am I can't sleep.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like laying under a waterfall, just having it.

[Tyler Parker]

And I just, like, today there was, like, a CBS News story about the DEA investigating Epstein for years and how this had been hidden in the files and it was previously unknown, and it would connect Epstein to international drug trafficking. If that's the implication, I don't think he's going to care about that particular accusation. That seems like it should be the most important thing in the whole world, right? Like, we should stop everything to, like, be like, was this guy also, like, an international drug trafficker and that's how he was laundering money, or is he laundering money for them? And especially given everything that's happening in the world right now, isn't this, like, a hugely consequential story? And I'm like, but it's on cbsnews.com and it was tweeted about for, like, six hours. And tonight's the State of the Union, and we're gonna be on to, like, whatever other crisis we're onto in three hours. It just. I feel almost part of the reason you need guardrails is because it's so impossible to stay on top of it.

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, it's to your point, December Trump pardoned Juan Orlando Hernandez part who was the former president of Honduras, a real drug trafficker, as a president of a country, and then put him in a hotel and sent him home for why. And we don't. That's one. We don't even talk about that shit anymore. That's like way gone.

[Chris Ryan]

Even stuff that's specific to these files where it's like we referenced the picture of Andrew with Jiuffrey whenever she was 17. With GHIS. There's another picture which I didn't even realize existed. Or multiple pictures of him, of him on all fours.

[Jason Concepcion]

Oh yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Hovering over a girl whose face you cannot see. And at one point he's just hovering over her and looking directly at the camera that's taking a picture of her. At another point he's touching her stomach. It's just like there's so much bad that you can't keep up with it all.

[Tyler Parker]

I do wonder whether. So this kind of gets back to the larger thesis of this episode, which is like, how come these guys got arrested in England and we haven't done anything.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, right?

[Tyler Parker]

And you know, there's a column in the Guardian today by Marina Hyde about how like, basically about this very topic, but is also like sounding a bit of cynicism about like, don't get your hopes up that anything more than these guys getting perp walked is gonna happen with them, you know, that there may be that this, what they're being charged with is incredibly difficult to prove or very easily defended. And it's, it's essentially like this could be all for show.

[Jason Concepcion]

Right.

[Tyler Parker]

Basically. So Starmer can save his job if he's just like, look, see, we like, we got him. You know, I don't know if that's gonna happen, but when you consider the alternative is the kind of obfuscation that's been happening over here and how one day a bunch of like right wing influencers can be like, I have the Epstein files in a binder. And then we're just like, well, that didn't happen.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, we don't care about it. Well, it's case closed.

[Chris Ryan]

Not just podcasters like Bondi and all her little DOJ people are holding up

[Tyler Parker]

binders and it's like, it's actually nothing. Actually, if I showed it to you, your eyes would fall out of your head because it's so grotesque. But actually that's all we're ever going to release. But actually there's a lot more. But these guys now the congress people are allowed to go in and read it a little bit at a time, but are being surveilled while they do it. And we're like, where do you want to stop and start having like massive trials about what's going on?

[Chris Ryan]

It makes your brain melt where like, you know, all this bad stuff has happened and yet nothing is being done to like, try to figure it out. It feels like, you know what I mean?

[Tyler Parker]

The alternative is essentially to just be like, I'm just gonna. I'm. I'm just gonna tap out, you know,

[Chris Ryan]

I'm gonna go watch an episode of Detroiters to like, calm down.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you see that some protesters had taken the picture of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor in the back of the Rover and they put it up in the Louvre.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it said, he's sweating now.

[Tyler Parker]

It's an all timer paparazzi photo.

[Chris Ryan]

Really. One of the.

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, there's an interview with the photographer. He's a Reuters photographer whose name I'm now forgetting, but you can see it on BBC.com and Reuters and man, what a shot.

[Chris Ryan]

What a shot.

[Jason Concepcion]

He basically says it was luck, which I.

[Tyler Parker]

But even the way his eyes are lit up like, it's almost like an early digital film.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like one eye is red, one eye is not. It's really great work.

[Tyler Parker]

Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no, no selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow and he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth Bird. Budget secured. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[Jason Concepcion]

Well, it's a long history in England of unique penalties for treason among the royals and others people in government. I would now like to present to you, Chris, with a true or false quiz called the Crown's justice on historical punishments for royal crimes, treasons and indiscretions. And this is all, of course, because on February 26, on February 2026, both Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and Peter Mc Mendelssohn were arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Historically, the Crown was rather less restrained. Can you sort the true from the false? Question 1. In 1478, a brother of the King of England was executed for treason by being drowned in a barrel of sweet wine. True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

I'm gonna go true.

[Jason Concepcion]

It's true. George Plantagenet Duke of Clarence, was convicted treason against his brother Edward iv. He was privately executed at the Tower of London, and contemporary sources report he was drowned in a quote butt, which I guess is a vat.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Jason Concepcion]

A butt of malmsy wine.

[Tyler Parker]

These guys love wine.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

I'm gonna go true.

[Jason Concepcion]

That's true. That was the answer.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Next question. Women convicted of high treason in England were burned at the stake rather than hanged, drawn and quartered officially for, quote, reasons of public decency. True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

When Was this?

[Jason Concepcion]

The 1400s.

[Tyler Parker]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Through the 1800s.

[Tyler Parker]

Decency was huge back then.

[Jason Concepcion]

Absolutely true.

[Chris Ryan]

Nothing says decency like burning someone.

[Jason Concepcion]

Like burning someone alive.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Under the Treason act of 1350, 2, women convicted of high treason were drawn and burned. The last woman burned for high treason was Catherine Murphy in 1789. That's really, really recent.

[Chris Ryan]

Can y' all refresh me on what is drawn and what is quartered? What are those?

[Jason Concepcion]

They put you between. They basically pull you apart with ropes and then snip. Yeah. Question three. Henry VIII passed a law allowing insane individuals to be tried for treason as if they were perfectly sane. True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

I'm gonna go true.

[Jason Concepcion]

True. You did do that. Statute was repealed under Mary I. Hank.

[Tyler Parker]

He was a big syphilis guy, right?

[Jason Concepcion]

He was very active in that and other respects, love to live. Henry viii, it was a big bacchanalian type of appetite.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Question four. Counterfeiting. The king's coinage was classified as high treason, the same category of crime as plotting to murder the sovereign. True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

I'm gonna imagine. True.

[Jason Concepcion]

True. The Treason act of 1352 explicitly lists counterfeiting the king's great or privy seal or his money as high treason.

[Tyler Parker]

I was always kind of wondering about that because, like, sometimes, like, old British money looks just like a pebble. Kind of like, how are you guys determining that this buys a pint?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, like,

[Tyler Parker]

So I imagine there were some really creative smiths out there who were like, look, a shilling.

[Jason Concepcion]

Question 5. The first person to be hanged, drawn and quartered in England was a Welsh prince. Prince who had declared himself Prince of Wales. True. It's true. I'm gonna have trouble with this name. And my apologies to the people of Wales. Dafydd ap Gruffud.

[Tyler Parker]

Okay. I think you probably nailed it.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like that's spot on. No need to look into that.

[Tyler Parker]

Gareth Bale has a problem with it. He could email you.

[Jason Concepcion]

Was executed on October 3, 1283. After rebelling against Edward I, he was dragged through the streets of Shrewsbury Hanged until semi conscious, revived, disemboweled, and made to watch his entrails burn. I think he wasn't really, you know, drilled down on what was happening at that point.

[Chris Ryan]

But they said. You said hanged until semi conscious.

[Jason Concepcion]

Right. They brought him back and revived him

[Chris Ryan]

so that he could watch his entrails get burned.

[Jason Concepcion]

Got it.

[Tyler Parker]

Well, you know, some Ramsay Bolton shit right there.

[Jason Concepcion]

Under medieval law, a nobleman convicted of treason could commute his death sentence by taking monastic vows and surrendering his entire estate to the crown.

[Tyler Parker]

That literally sounds like going to the wall.

[Jason Concepcion]

It does, doesn't it? True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

True.

[Jason Concepcion]

False. In 1605, Guy Fawkes, famous Guy Fawkes, was sentenced to be boiled alive before the sentence was commuted to hanging, drawing and quartering.

[Chris Ryan]

Boy, that I guess. What would you rather be?

[Tyler Parker]

But was it commuted? Were they gonna boil him? And then they were like.

[Jason Concepcion]

They were gonna boil him, but then they were like, that's too bad.

[Tyler Parker]

Is that false?

[Jason Concepcion]

That's too crazy. It is false.

[Tyler Parker]

Okay, okay. Did they boil him? How did they get Guy Guy.

[Jason Concepcion]

Reportedly it was the hanging, drawing and quartering, but he reportedly jumped from the scaffold and broke his neck before they could do the semi conscious hang.

[Tyler Parker]

Just like Jeffrey Epstein.

[Jason Concepcion]

But again, just like him. Just like he did. Yeah. Sadly, with no witnesses, if a person refused to enter a plea in a treason case, the court would immediately seize all their property. A harsher rule than for ordinary felonies. That seems false. It is true.

[Tyler Parker]

Refusal to enter a plea, huh?

[Jason Concepcion]

That's true. Wow. In ordinary felony cases, silence preserved estates from forfeiture. In treason, silence triggered immediate forfeiture.

[Tyler Parker]

So that was a different attitude towards pleading.

[Jason Concepcion]

The fifth distinction ended in 1772. Very. Again. Yeah, a lot of stuff like. Yeah, pretty recently.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

Question 9 Royal Prisoners in the Tower of London were entitled to a final banquet of their choosing, paid for by the privy purse on the eve of their execution.

[Tyler Parker]

I feel like that feels true to me. Where does, like, last meal? Where does, like, that death row meal?

[Chris Ryan]

Does that start?

[Tyler Parker]

Start, you know, like.

[Jason Concepcion]

Is that your final answer?

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

It is false. Damn. Prisoners in the Tower were generally expected to pay for their own upkeep. You had to, like, pay rent.

[Tyler Parker]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Concepcion]

And then finally, in rare and aggravated cases of medieval treason, the condemned could be flayed alive. Ramsay Bolton shit. As an additional element of the punishment. True or false?

[Tyler Parker]

True.

[Jason Concepcion]

True.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

The Journal of Medieval History confirms flaying

[Tyler Parker]

alive because otherwise, where will we get flaying?

[Jason Concepcion]

Yes. Seems to have been included in rare and aggravated Cases. The standard punishment was already extreme, of course, but just in case he really, really did something.

[Tyler Parker]

British culture Man Stones, the Clash Flaying. Thank you.

[Jason Concepcion]

We end our conversations with our guests with our Lucid score. Our Lucidscore is a scoring system from 1 to 4 for each category in which we score based on legs. We're gonna keep talking about this story. Unintentional comedy. Is it funny in any way? I'm gonna say this is like, a negative 15. Yeah. Sinisterness. Is it sinister? Intrigue? Is there a level of intrigue and danger? How dangerous is this story?

[Tyler Parker]

I know it's only the second episode of this show so far be it for me to suggest an advanced analytics revolution already, but I think this story might break the model.

[Jason Concepcion]

I think, well, we can only go

[Tyler Parker]

exception of unintentional comedy. And, you know, like, you could say Andrew's. The picture of Andrew in the backseat of the car is unintentionally funny in some ways, but it's also like, look at a demon.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, look at this piece of shit.

[Tyler Parker]

I don't think that this story is going anywhere. I think it's. It feels consequential.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yes.

[Tyler Parker]

I feel like if there was, like, a rational explanation for even half of this stuff, I don't even know who would be the. Who would be the spokesperson for that. Like, hey, I know everybody's letting themselves get a little.

[Jason Concepcion]

Not as bad as.

[Tyler Parker]

Not as bad as you think. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't. I will be very curious to know if you guys find another story on. Wait a second. That breaks this one's lucid score.

[Jason Concepcion]

No, I don't think. I think this is a. Listen, take unintentional comedy out of it. So it's a 16 out of 16. There's no question it's got every dial maxed and will only continue to do so.

[Tyler Parker]

Well, that'll be. The interesting thing is, like, even myself. And we're only, what, like, three weeks since the files were released. I feel like you guys probably agree with me. Like, you can feel your brain dying as you read about it. And you can also feel like. I feel like this. The kind of endurance test that it is maybe is part of the point. At the end of the day, it's almost just like, let them go crazy about this for a month, and then something else will come along. Like, it kind of feels like that's happening.

[Chris Ryan]

It does feel like they're desperate for people to get tired of it.

[Jason Concepcion]

Well, it's the Steve Bannon Flood the Zone, which is basically what we've been living in for the last 10 years,

[Tyler Parker]

another big all star.

[Jason Concepcion]

I mean, heavily featured. Here's the thing that I find interesting not to hijack about Steve Bannon, who filmed a two hour interview with Jeffrey Epstein in an intent.

[Tyler Parker]

Originally, what I wanted to talk about.

[Jason Concepcion]

We will talk about that at some point in an attempt to launder Epstein's image to. He says now that it was an attempt to.

[Tyler Parker]

It was like a sting operation, eject

[Jason Concepcion]

him from right wing politics so that he could not damage it. But clearly at the time it was like a PR campaign.

[Chris Ryan]

Buds.

[Jason Concepcion]

Um. What is so crazy about Bannon is he is such a villain that nobody even thought to get his comment. They're like, no, we get it.

[Tyler Parker]

That's the thing is that, like, I keep waiting for like the, like Steve comes clean or like my statement on this. And I know he has a podcast. Like, I think he pods for like three hours a day.

[Jason Concepcion]

He does. From a basement. From a basement in D.C. yeah, I'm

[Tyler Parker]

sure he's just this. But like, they're saying bad stuff about you, man. Like, like, you might want to comment on this. Like, they're talking about bathtubs. Like you're.

[Jason Concepcion]

It's bad.

[Tyler Parker]

It's bad. And in the meantime, real late game interview with Jeffrey Epstein that goes on for hours.

[Jason Concepcion]

Hours. It's too. Like, at one point I'm like, Jesus Christ. Is another hour.

[Tyler Parker]

And that. That will turn if you want to get your noodle cooked. If you watch like 15 minutes of that, you're like.

[Jason Concepcion]

You'll be like, it is all true. It's a conspiracy. It's all been a setup. The whole thing is a setup. We lost the world 15 years ago.

[Tyler Parker]

It's just nuts.

[Jason Concepcion]

Let's go to the Doom Scroll. Tyler Parker, what do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

All right, so we should probably mention that we're recording this on Tuesday, February 24th. Trump is doing the State of the Union tonight. So if he says any wild shit in that, that will not be covered here. Tune in next week to the Doom Scroll. Doom Scroll. We just run through some stories that we've got our eye on. Some things that made us raise our eyebrows a little bit. The first one Mexican cartel boss killed so Mexico's most wanted cartel boss. I'm going to get it wrong. Namisio Oseguera Cervantes El Mencho was killed Sunday after a government capture operation wounded him and he died while being airlifted for medical care. He led the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, one of Mexico's most Powerful and violent criminal organizations. They have an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 members. Earn billions annually through drug trafficking, extortion, kidnapping, fuel theft, migrant smuggling and other crimes. The U. S had offered 15mil for info leading to El Mincho's arrest. Yeah, bump up the price if you want some.

[Tyler Parker]

That's like a signing bonus for apparently you're coming out of college.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, apparently they followed his mistress to the cab.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And yeah, pre dawn raid with troops and six helicopters on his hideout in Tapalpa, Jalisco.

[Jason Concepcion]

And then things popped off and things really popped up. I was supposed to go to Tijuana in a couple of weeks.

[Chris Ryan]

Fled into the woods. Fled into the woods with two of his bodyguards and they both died on the way as they were being airlifted. The death triggered widespread violence across Mexico. Armed groups blocked roads and set fire to supermarkets, banks, vehicles. One of the country's worst outbreaks of unrest in recent history. Harsh hit areas include Guadalajara and the tourist city of Puerto Vallarta, where residents and visitors scrambled for shelter. Public transportation was suspended, Classes were canceled. Airlines halted flights. The US warned American citizens to shelter in place across five states. Yeah, it 70 arrests, 34 suspected cartel members killed and 25 National Guard members dead, along with several citizens.

[Jason Concepcion]

Reminiscent of the Battle of Kulakan. Remember that one from 2019 when they arrested or attempted to arrest some of El Chapo's sons? And then El Chapo's cartel went crazy and they had to release them. And there was a question about why they released them. Very bad. What do you got?

[Chris Ryan]

Sean Penn was there to save the day, obviously.

[Tyler Parker]

That's right.

[Jason Concepcion]

Sean Penn need an editor. As an editor, Chris, and as a person. Listen, I've read Sean's writings on various topics.

[Chris Ryan]

Bob, honey, what do you think about.

[Jason Concepcion]

What do you think about Sean's. Penn. John, Sean Penn's pen.

[Tyler Parker]

I think he could probably use another set of eyes.

[Jason Concepcion]

For sure. Yeah, okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I agree with that. All right, so the headline here is 7,000 robot vacuums. In popular science, a man accidentally gained control of 7,000 robot vacuums. Sammy as Dufall just wanted to steer his DJI Roma with a gaming controller. Things went haywire. So he's a software engineer. He tried to steer his new dji DJI robot vacuum with a video game controller and inadvertently granted him a sneak peek into thousands of people's homes while building his own remote control app. He reportedly used an AI coding assistant to help reverse engineer how the Robot communicated with DJI's remote cloud servers. He soon discovered that the same Credentials that allowed him to see and control his own device also provided access to live camera feeds, microphone, audio maps and status data from nearly 7,000 other vacuums across 24 countries.

[Tyler Parker]

This is much better. When it was maximum overdrive and we were just in the tail of a comet and that's what made trucks come to life. I will say kind of adjacent to this. I feel like Waymos have a little bit of an edge to them right now.

[Jason Concepcion]

Interesting. I feel like, no, no, they've sped up, They've sped up recently.

[Tyler Parker]

I feel like it's like they're learning or whatever, but it's also like, yo, like you rolled into that stop sign hard.

[Chris Ryan]

Wasn't it announced that it's like dudes in the people in the Philippines that are controlling.

[Tyler Parker]

I don't know if that was true, but it was just like, yeah, a lot of dudes would join.

[Jason Concepcion]

They're not doing it apparently minute to minute. But if there's a traffic jam or a choice to be made and they. And they want to help out the particular car, then there are people in the Philippines who touch a screen and make it happen.

[Tyler Parker]

I saw one incident the other day when I was going to a diner off of Franklin in la and these two idiots had just sort of like parked on a side street on like Gower and like, oh, dude, it rolled up in a Mercedes, opened the doors and was just like talking to his friend, but had just taken up all of Gower because of the way he had stopped his car. And I was already like these guys. But then a Waymo pulled up and I was like, oh, this will be interesting. Does the Waymo. Wait, can a Waymo honk?

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, oh yeah.

[Tyler Parker]

And it just came up to this situation. The kids were obviously like, nope, not moving, not for a robot. And the Waymo backed out into Franklin, which if you're familiar with Franklin, is not something you're supposed to do and is like essentially like I'm just gonna throw it in reverse on like a very, very busy four lane street. And I was like, we're gonna have some, some interesting moments with these little guys over the next coming years.

[Jason Concepcion]

So DGI is a. They make drones as well. They make a lot of video equipment. Their drones are. I don't know what the status is of currently, but I think the importation of new drones was placed under ban because of security concerns that these drones were sending information to China or could be like hijacked and turned into a drone swarm a la the Ukraine war, which kind of seems isn't something you

[Tyler Parker]

needed to worry about?

[Jason Concepcion]

It kind of seems like maybe. Maybe it's possible.

[Chris Ryan]

Apparently, the vacuum costs $2,000.

[Jason Concepcion]

Okay, I'm out on that.

[Chris Ryan]

Seems reasonable, right? Okay. So some UFO updates.

[Jason Concepcion]

So, yes, Good.

[Chris Ryan]

On the doom scroll. Last week, we talked about Obama's comments on no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen about whether or not aliens exist.

[Tyler Parker]

He can't say anything, man. Dude, he can't. Like, they can't even let him go out there and have a good time on a pod.

[Chris Ryan]

So following this, Trump, without providing any evidence, accused Obama of.

[Jason Concepcion]

He shouldn't have said that. He shouldn't have been talking about my little great friends.

[Tyler Parker]

It seems like he broke classified.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He said he made a, quote, big mistake. He took it out of classified information. He's not supposed to be doing that.

[Tyler Parker]

And it was more just like a speculative. Like, I suppose, just mathematically, there's probably life somewhere else.

[Jason Concepcion]

It was pretty flippant. It was pretty flippant. Although he does change his tune in the second, more detailed comment because people got so excited about the first one.

[Chris Ryan]

He said later that day that he would direct federal agencies to begin releasing government files related to aliens and unidentified flying objects.

[Jason Concepcion]

He's gonna release all the crazy stuff

[Chris Ryan]

pointing to what he described as strong public interest in the issue.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, Trump, he's done this, like, 10 times. I feel like every six months, he's like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna release the files.

[Chris Ryan]

Pete Hegseth, the current Secretary of War, on Trump's directive to declassify UAP and alien files. Quote, the president has made it clear we're identifying the files and will release what doesn't compromise national. National security. Following that little nervous laugh. And then, quote, there's stuff in there that might blow people's minds.

[Jason Concepcion]

Okay.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, this is the.

[Jason Concepcion]

This is okay.

[Tyler Parker]

This is the bullshit.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah, this is the bullshit. This is okay.

[Tyler Parker]

This is like, the same. But it's the same thing. It's like, I promise. I promise in a couple weeks when we do this in three days, it's

[Jason Concepcion]

just like, yeah, the crop circles. I saw crop circles.

[Tyler Parker]

You've been abandoned by the aliens. They don't want to do with it. They're like, we're good.

[Jason Concepcion]

They don't want any part of this.

[Chris Ryan]

No, they're. They're like, y' all figure some stuff out. We'll come back later.

[Jason Concepcion]

We'll come back.

[Chris Ryan]

Last one. Sam Altman, in rare form at the India AI Impact Summit, did an interview with the Indian Express. He defended AI's use of resources.

[Jason Concepcion]

Who needs water?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Is that. That the, you know, the accusation that Chad uses gallons of water per query were, quote, completely untrue, totally insane, and have no connection to reality. And then. But he's like, but you know what? Humans, we. We need resources too. Quote, One of the things that is always unfair in this comparison is people talk about how much energy it takes to train an AI model, but it also takes a lot of energy to train a human. It takes. It takes like 20 years of life and all the food you eat before that time, before you get smart.

[Tyler Parker]

So I never want to hear him talk again. I only want to hear him read you read his quotes. I mean, in my mind it's just Tyler is Sam Alvin. He said, dressed this way and everything

[Jason Concepcion]

is like, hey, look, you got to eat.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't talk to me. You got to drink water too. Don't talk to me.

[Jason Concepcion]

You got a baby. Yeah. I never hear anybody complain about where all the milk's coming from, where all the formula's coming from.

[Chris Ryan]

If you don't drink water, then you come talk to me. What does that have a problem? Yeah.

[Jason Concepcion]

What is that? A Graham cracker? Where'd that come from?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Graham just grows on trees.

[Jason Concepcion]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. The final sort of pertinent quote, the fair comparison is if you ask ChatGPT a question, how much energy does it take once a model is trained to answer that question, versus a human, and probably AI has already caught up on an energy efficient efficiency basis.

[Jason Concepcion]

What is the question?

[Tyler Parker]

Dude, you can just see gallons of water going down.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it. That, that's, that's the doom scroll for this week. We've got some other stuff we're keeping an eye on. We'll save that for next time. Some Hollywood AI stuff and some.

[Jason Concepcion]

I just want to say that I feel really bad for asking this question now because the answer is from Sam's. Creation estimates vary by model generation and how the data center operates, but the commonly cited numbers come from studies of AI data centers. Yada, yada, yada. About 500 milliliters per query.

[Tyler Parker]

That's a lot.

[Jason Concepcion]

I just saw that. Literally just watched the level go down.

[Tyler Parker]

Yeah, Seal died.

[Jason Concepcion]

I feel really bad. Thanks for joining us. This has been. Wait a second.

[Chris Ryan]

Everything's going so well.

[Jason Concepcion]

I'm feeling great, guys.

[Tyler Parker]

It could be like 10pm a.m. right now.

[Jason Concepcion]

I have no idea. We just need like a. A ashtray full of cigarettes in the middle of this.

[Chris Ryan]

I want some like a Zodiac style, you know?

[Jason Concepcion]

See you next week. Thank you. Chris Ryan of course.