Club World Cup vs Gold Cup, Drama in the Manchester Derby, and Promotion/Relegation in MLS

Summary

Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard – Episode Summary
Episode Title: Club World Cup vs Gold Cup, Drama in the Manchester Derby, and Promotion/Relegation in MLS
Release Date: December 17, 2024

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1. USMNT Stardom: Gio Reyna, Tim Weah, and Weston McKinney

Landon Donovan and Tim Howard kick off the episode by discussing the rising stars of the U.S. Men’s National Team (USMNT). They focus on Gio Reyna, Tim Weah, and Weston McKinney, highlighting their recent performances and the challenges they face.

• Gio Reyna's Generational Talent:
  Tim Howard emphasizes Reyna's exceptional abilities, stating, “He is a generational talent... he and Christian and maybe one or two others have generational talent that we've rarely ever seen” (06:16). He praises Reyna's growth and maturity, recognizing the pressure of living up to his father's legacy while carving out his own path in European football.

• Weston McKinney's Impact at Juve:
  Landon Donovan celebrates McKinney’s recent goal against Manchester City, noting, “They are putting that work in every day... Weston has got an engine like no other” (07:18). The hosts express optimism about his continued success and contribution to both his club and the national team.

2. Club World Cup vs Gold Cup: FIFA’s Scheduling Dilemma

A significant portion of the discussion centers on FIFA's recent decision not to release players for national team duty during the Club World Cup. This poses a dilemma for the USMNT as key players might be unavailable for the Gold Cup.

• Impact on USMNT Preparation:
  Landon Donovan voices concern over the congested fixture calendar, stating, “At what point is FIFA going to just stop throwing more games... players are suffering” (09:00). He questions the sustainability of players juggling club and national team commitments.

• FIFA's Financial Motives:
  Tim Howard highlights FIFA’s financial incentives, mentioning, “FIFA just sold the rights to the Club World Cup for a billion” (12:07). He warns of potential conflicts between national team priorities and club obligations, urging US Soccer to assert its stance against such scheduling conflicts.

3. Premier League Rundown: Manchester Derby and Managerial Changes

The hosts delve into recent Premier League developments, focusing on the Manchester Derby and managerial upheavals at various clubs.

• Manchester Derby Drama:
  Tim Howard reflects on Manchester City’s sluggish performance and the struggle under new manager Ruben Amorim, describing the match as “fairly dull” until Ahmad Diallo scored the winning penalty (26:42). Both hosts commend Diallo’s adaptability and performance under a new system.

• Managerial Sackings:
  Landon Donovan discusses the recent sackings of Gary O’Neal at Wolves and Russell Martin at Southampton, predicting challenges for these clubs to avoid relegation (43:24). Tim Howard adds that the Premier League’s high-stakes environment often leads to such decisions, emphasizing the need for strategic managerial appointments.

• Nottingham Forest’s Surprising Season:
  The duo expresses astonishment over Nottingham Forest’s rise to fourth place, attributing it to standout performances by players like goalkeeper Emmy Martinez. Tim Howard praises Martinez’s exceptional saves, highlighting his status as one of the top goalkeepers globally (42:13).

4. Promotion and Relegation in MLS: A Viable Future?

Landon and Tim engage in a comprehensive debate on the potential implementation of promotion and relegation in Major League Soccer (MLS).

• Business Implications:
  Landon Donovan argues that relegation poses significant financial risks for club owners, questioning the feasibility of such a system in the U.S. He cites the Vancouver Whitecaps' potential sale as an example, stating, “Why would I ever sign up for that?” (51:58).

• Contrasting Views:
  Tim Howard acknowledges the debate's complexity, sharing his reservations while remaining open to the idea. He mentions ongoing discussions with industry professionals but personally leans against promotion and relegation, considering the current American soccer landscape (52:02).

5. Mailbag Segment: Sportsmanship and Fan Engagement

The hosts address listener questions, focusing on sportsmanship incidents and ways fans can contribute to the growth of soccer in the USA.

• Sportsmanship Stories:
  Tim Howard recounts an encounter with Diego Costa, where despite fierce on-field competition, they demonstrated mutual respect post-match by trading jerseys (48:08). This mirrors Landon Donovan's experiences with spirited yet respectful exchanges with opponents.

• Growing the Game in the USA:
  Landon Donovan advises fans to actively engage by attending matches, supporting local teams, and fostering community around soccer. Tim Howard echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and supportive environments to nurture the sport's growth (54:20).

6. Non-Soccer Discussion: NFL Coaching Dynamics

In a departure from soccer, the hosts briefly discuss an incident in the NFL involving the Philadelphia Eagles' coaching staff.

• Eagles’ Coaching Controversy:
  Landon Donovan critiques head coach Nick Sirianni for allowing an assistant coach to undermine his authority during a game, highlighting the negative impact on team hierarchy and cohesion (58:56). Tim Howard shares a personal anecdote about maintaining respect and authority within a team, underscoring the importance of leadership integrity.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Wrapping up the episode, Landon and Tim reiterate their commitment to providing unfiltered insights into the world of soccer. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast through social media and email, hinting at a special New Year's Eve episode to follow their holiday break.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Howard on Gio Reyna:
  “He is a generational talent... he and Christian and maybe one or two others have generational talent that we've rarely ever seen.” (06:16)

• Landon Donovan on Weston's Performance:
  “Weston has got an engine like no other. He breaks things up constantly.” (07:18)

• Landon Donovan on FIFA's Scheduling:
  “At what point is FIFA going to just stop throwing more games... players are suffering.” (09:00)

• Tim Howard on Club vs National Team Priorities:
  “US Soccer and Pochettino have to fight their corner strongly as FIFA is going to fight their corner.” (12:41)

• Tim Howard on Promotion/Relegation Debate:
  “I don't think promotion relegation can work in America and I'll give you loads of reasons why.” (52:02)

• Landon Donovan on Growing Soccer:
  “Get them to go with you to a game. Teach them about the game, all the nuances.” (55:11)

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Timestamps Reference

For clarity, timestamps are referenced in square brackets alongside quotes. Here's a quick reference:

• 06:16: Discussion on Gio Reyna's talent.
• 07:18: Weston's goal and performance.
• 09:00: FIFA's scheduling impact.
• 12:07: FIFA's financial moves.
• 26:42: Manchester Derby analysis.
• 42:13: Emmy Martinez's save.
• 43:24: Managerial sackings at Wolves and Southampton.
• 48:08: Mailbag question on sportsmanship.
• 51:58: Promotion/Relegation in MLS.
• 54:20: Mailbag on growing soccer.
• 58:56: NFL coaching dynamics.
• 61:50: Conclusion and final thoughts.
• Other timestamps correspond to key dialogue points throughout the episode.

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This episode of Unfiltered Soccer offers an in-depth look into the current state of US soccer, the intricate balance between club and national team duties, and the evolving landscape of the Premier League. Landon Donovan and Tim Howard provide candid insights, coupled with personal anecdotes and expert analysis, making it a must-listen for soccer enthusiasts seeking unvarnished opinions and comprehensive discussions.

Transcript

[Tim Howard]

Weston, Tim Weah, and Gioreno. In this matter, it's important that U.S. soccer and Mauricio Pochettino say, absolutely zero chance. I'm playing without those three.

[Landon Donovan]

It's not going to be pretty, man. Welcome to Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard. Presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of US Soccer for the past five years.

[Tim Howard]

LD what's up, brother? Listen, I just want to start by saying it was so good having you on my side of the country. You don't often come this way to New York City because you are very much a Cali boy. Did you enjoy it?

[Landon Donovan]

Please tell me why I cannot explain to people how cold it was. We had. It was so cool. We got to do a Times Square takeover. Shout out to the marketing team at Sinclair, Nicole, et cetera, for setting that up. Really cool having the LED banners behind us. If you haven't seen it, you can check it out on the social media channels. But, Tim, it was so cold, dude. Like, standing there for 45 minutes. I could not wait to get out of there. And honestly, it took me 45 minutes inside in the warm to stop, like, shivering. I don't know how you did that, dude.

[Tim Howard]

At one point, you were trying to talk to me and your jaw was starting to freeze and you couldn't speak, which is a real thing. It was fun, man. You know what I love? I think maybe, maybe pre one of our World Cups, we did something in Times Square. But I'm also thinking, like, I feel like you and I have had a decent amount of success in the game. And I'm like, I'm not sure I've ever stood in Times Square with, like, my. With my name plastered on a moving billboard. You might have. You landed MVP trophy. That's cool. It was awesome. Yeah, really, really lot of fun.

[Landon Donovan]

Reminder, guys. Follow us on social media Unfiltered Soccer. Subscribe to the show on YouTube. Make sure you follow Apple podcasts and Spotify. If you love what we're doing, please send comments. You can ask questions. We love to get your feedback. Can also email us at feedback at Unfiltered Soccer. All right, Timmy, should we start with us LNT on the usmnt. Quite a weekend. Our guy G, who I've had a lot to say about and has been in the news. G. Reina started two games this week, scored an absolute bomb on the weekend in Dortmund's draw. One. One draw. I just want to say, you know, like, when people See headlines or they see things. We say. This happens all the time in my life, and I'm sure for you, too. People say, oh, why did you do that? Or why did you say that? And I'll say, what are you talking about? And they'll say, well, I saw the headline that day. And I say, well, did you read what I said or did you read the article?

[Tim Howard]

No, no, no, no.

[Landon Donovan]

I just saw the headline. I say, no one ever does. Go back, read the article, read what I said, and then let's have a conversation. So totally, I, by the way, I am in Gio's corner. I want Gio to succeed. I want every national team player to exceed. We're fans of. We're fans of the sport. We want to see the sport grow. I was on our group chat saying, lfg when he scored the bomb, right? That makes me happy. It doesn't mean we're not going to be honest and it doesn't mean we're not going to be unfiltered. Um, so everyone's excited about that. I'm excited about that. I just want to remind people, and this is not to be a Debbie Downer, you know how many days it's been since he scored his last club goal?

[Tim Howard]

Tell us.

[Landon Donovan]

583 days. Okay, so I'm happy for him. Amazing and a great goal. But everything I said last week still stands true. If that's the way he's going and playing well and scoring great, stay at Dortmund. If not, find a place to play, whether it's MLS or Holland or Mexico or wherever. I could care less. Go somewhere where you are playing, especially leading up to the World Cup. So happy for him. Let's hope Knock on Woody can stay healthy now. He clearly deserves to start again, to play again, and let's hope this continues.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, look, I. I'm so excited for Giorena because he's a kid, right? So he'd hate me for saying he's a kid because he'd probably look at me and say, no, I'm a grown man. Because this is what kids do, right? I tell my daughter the same thing. She's a little girl. She's like, no, I'm not. I'm going to college. She still has a lot to learn, right? As they all do. Why I'm so excited for Gio Reyna is because he's a generational talent. You know, people constantly come up to me and you. I could. If I clicked on a search engine right now, they'd say, when's America Gonna produce the next great world class player. When are we gonna win a World Cup? That's the question on everybody. This is a world class player. He has, he has generational talent. He and Christian and maybe one or two other have generational talent that we've rarely ever seen. I'm excited for him because he's 22 years old. He's a baby. Do you know how much pressure he's had on his shoulders? His dad, who we played with is a captain of the US Men's national team. Those aren't easy shoes to fill. You then have to go over to Europe. You then have to carry the weight of a non goalkeeper, right? Because goalkeepers had us goalkeepers ton of success in Europe. You've got to be the one to go over and you have to start in the Champions League and you have to start in Bundesliga. It's hard, man. It's hard. And he's, and he's young. I'm excited for him because over the next couple of years his growth and maturation I think is going to skyrocket and he now has an opportunity to go, no, this is mine. This isn't my dad's. This isn't any expectation. This is just me. And I'm figuring out because by the way, he's figuring out how to play football at the highest level, he's figuring out how to be an adult. I mean these are all. We all dealt with this. It's impossible. And most people fail. And I'm just so excited for him, you know, that he's back playing. I love that he's got another opportunity to play again and he produced because that's what it's about. Ld it literally is about saying, particularly as an American, and I've said this quite a lot about myself, about Christian when he was at Chelsea, about so many of my teammates. It's different when you're an American. You'll never convince me otherwise. Which means every single day you've got to go out and train and perform like your life depended on because that's the only thing that's going to get you in the team. So I was super happy for him that he produced. And you know what? He was rewarded for it. So long, may that continue because I think it's awesome.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, let's hope it continues. Now he's got to stay healthy. First and foremost. That's has been his biggest issue is like staying healthy. So long, may it continue. Two other Americans at juve. What a goal. If you have not seen this, go check it out on YouTube. Weston McKinney scores off a Tim way across. If you're an American soccer fan, you were jumping around your living room. You know what my biggest takeaway is, though?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

When I watch that and I see the clips on social media, et cetera, I'm excited, but I'm not like out of my boots over the moon. I can't believe this. And you know why? Because those guys have gone over now and done it consistently. And so you don't get overly crazy. And by the way, French players, Brazilian players, Spanish players, people aren't going crazy when two of them link up for a goal in the Champions League now because they're used to it and we're starting to get to a point where we're used to it. Kudos to Tim Weah and Weston for great goal beat City. By the way, two nothing in the Champions League, which I think everyone's beating City these days, but still, congrats to them. What a goal.

[Tim Howard]

I mean, I think that what you said is so poignant. Like the fact that we expect two Americans to just be on the field for Juve and to perform is like, wow, we've come a long way. We've come a long way. And that's not a we thing. That's a massive credit to Weston and.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, that's Tim Wayett.

[Tim Howard]

I mean, they are putting that work in every day also. What I love about them is they've got, you've got that pizzazz, man. They've got that arrogance that I just love in, in, you know, particularly attacking players. But, you know, Weston for me is special, man. He, he, he's got an engine like no other. He breaks things up constantly. He's always on the go. You know, he gets the ball off of our center backs and our goalkeeper and our fullbacks. And then the next thing you know, that's your expectation and then he filters things, he creates tempo. Next thing you know, he's getting on the end of a header at the back post, like constantly being dank, goal dangerous. And I just thought, you know, we throw this, we throw this turnaround box to box midfielder and I think it's lost its luster a little bit because of your double six in the pivot, your false nine. He's, he's really very much a box to box midfielder. And yeah, I was super stoked for those guys.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, they were, they were great. And another good weekend. Interestingly, FIFA announced and this will impact both of them. This could impact Gio Reyna as well.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, at Dortmund.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, yeah. That they are not requiring clubs that participate in the Club World cup to release their players for national team duty during that time. So that means the three of them, conceivably, for Juve and Dortmund respectively, could play in the Club World cup and then not be available for the national team in the Gold Cup.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

My first take on all this is, at what point is FIFA going to just stop throwing more games and more tournaments and more? And the players are suffering. Right. Physically now, it's fun to play in some of these tournaments and it's. It's novel. Right. To play in a Club World cup now is exciting in some regards, but the coaches suffer. Coaches from now Pochettino is like, okay, now I'm going to miss three of my best players for a national team camp, that is Anna, and a tournament that is our only opportunity now before the World cup to play in meaningful games.

[Tim Howard]

Totally.

[Landon Donovan]

The fans suffer. How are they going to pick where to go, which games to watch? They can't follow their best players necessarily. It just feels like it's just too much, man.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. I mean, it's a lot. We know that the fixture build up and we can go back to the Rodri injury and quotes and all that. We know the fixture buildup is ridiculous. Look, money makes the world go round. I know nobody wants to hear that, but it's more money, it's more games, it's more eyes. TV rights are going up. Like there's an issue here. Like there's a. There's a. There's a log jam at the top and there's more games being added because there's more money involved. Now, what I would say is you touched on it. The biggest issue for me, because, look, I think if my team's. If my team's in the Club World cup and I'm playing on one of the biggest teams in the world, I mean, I'm probably in the moment. I'm probably excited to compete at that level. Trophies on the line. So, you know, I can get myself excited for that. I think the difficult part, ld, is at the end of every season, right, in England, it was. It was the Premier League being finished. No matter where you. Where you placed European places or winning the title or staving off relegation. Maybe you're in a Cup final, an FA cup, maybe there's a Champions League final, but then you're done and you're like, I'm going to go with a different group of guys. I'm going back with my national team. I'm Going to refocus. It's hard to continue on that road even further with your club team because you need that break. But more importantly for the U.S. right, because this is USLNT, where there is no World cup qualifying, there is very limited availability to get your best players in the trenches together when it matters. Being on the road, playing back to back games, three games in the course of 10 days, getting into the next round, regrouping, trying to get advanced, get to a final, there's no opportunity for that. This is the opportunity. The Goal cup is the opportunity. When this opportunity goes, and if potentially three of our best six players, Weston, Tim Weah and Gio Reyna are missing from that, that for me is a problem. And forget me, I got a nice amazing studio in New York. That's a problem for Marcia Pochettino. Huge problem. So I wonder if there's going to be any wiggle room. I wonder how much power and influence U.S. soccer can have. I hope U.S. soccer can have the influence and just say, look, we're going to flex our muscles here and if we need to create some sort of dust up with the clubs, so be it. Because I think in this matter, it's important that U.S. soccer and Mauricio Pochettino say, absolutely zero chance I'm playing without those three. Absolutely.

[Landon Donovan]

But guess what, Tim. Guess what. FIFA just sold the rights to the Club World cup for a billion. Yes, I said a billion. A billion dollars. That's what I started with. So guess what FIFA's doing? They're calling all the clubs and they're saying, hey, Gio Reyna and Weston McKinney and Lionel Messi and they better be in the tournament, like, they better be playing because we just, we just got a billion dollars and everybody's going to be telling us, hey, those guys better play. So there's going to become a war and it's not going to be pretty, man. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out with national teams versus club teams over the next few months.

[Tim Howard]

Look, my argument would be we agree on what the rights fee was for the Club World Cup. What I would say is I'm U.S. soccer and I got just as much money involved in the 2026 World cup as they do. And it matters more to me. And so they. So US Soccer and Pochettino have to fight their corner strongly as FIFA is going to fight their corner.

[Landon Donovan]

No, they will, but. Well, but guess what? It's the FIFA World cup too. So FIFA's invested in the US having a cup so it's like they've got. They're all just. They're all just in it together and it's kind of a mess. Curious what you guys think. We've been doing poll questions now. It's actually a fun way for us to engage. So which is more important to you? The fan club World cup, if you're a national team fan or the Gold Cup? So would you rather see Wes and Tim Weah playing for Juve against, you know, whoever, or you want to see them in the Gold Cup? Be really curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Can we touch real quick? Just. He's starting to get some publicity now, but Anthony Robinson, yeah, his star is shining as bright as ever. My opinion is after Christian and, you know, Christian's injured now, I don't think there's a better player on the planet that's American than Anson. He's doing every week, Tim. Up and down, up and down. Forget about, like the providing assist. He's just consistent, defends well. He's got to be close to the first name on the team sheet at Fulham every week.

[Tim Howard]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, shout out to Anthony Robinson, former teammate of mine at Everton. Many people probably don't know that. Did you.

[Landon Donovan]

Was he there with that? No.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, he was. He was on the fringes of the first team when we there. Good kid, man. Really, really good kid. Someone who's easy to root for, but playing well. Yeah, as you said, just his. His ability to get up and down the flanks and continuously put in dangerous crosses. Again, two assists this weekend. It was. Yeah. You know, you talk about oftentimes the. The special players coming from the spine of the team. Right. Like in the heart of the midfield or goal scorers. But, you know, his. His ability to contribute on both ends for Fulham in the Premier League and for the US Men's national team. I mean, can't say enough good things about Anthony Robinson and another player, you know, touch wood. But he seems to be not only consistent but constantly available, constantly playing big, big minutes and big moments. So that's a big one for us.

[Landon Donovan]

He's also Tim, he's worn the armband now and, you know, Stu said last week. Yeah, Stu said last week something really interesting. National teams and our national teams in the past were best when we had a lot of guys wearing armbands and being leaders on their team. And this is another point where it's great to be at a big club, but if you're a fringe player, you don't understand how leadership works at that Level. And so even if you're on a, quote, smaller club, if you're a leader or a captain and you can bring that into a national team, it's a whole different level. If you have seven or eight of those guys starting on the field, your national team looks a whole lot different. So he's leading.

[Tim Howard]

And it's a really interesting point you make. Let me. Let me. Let me dive into that a little bit. So when you're playing a little bit, and I can attest to this, when I was playing at Manchester United, I was a fringe player, right? So my only thought was like, how do I not screw up so that I can try me, that I can play next week.

[Landon Donovan]

That's right.

[Tim Howard]

When I got to Everton and I was like, I'm putting in performances every week, I'm going to play every week because I'm consistent, my thought became less about me, and it became more about the fans and the performance and the internal struggles of a team and how do I be part of the solution instead of the problem? And that only came through consistency of playing, ownership of the team, responsibility. When you play a lot, other players look around at you and you're like, all right, well, he's got to have the answers. What are the answers, Tim? What are the answers, Landon? And so when you start to play those big minutes and it starts to become less about you, because you're like, I've already figured me out. I know I'm going to be on the team sheet. It then becomes about problem solving and leadership, right? And then you. And then you crave that. Most athletes crave that. And then you want more. So then you go into your national team, you're like, no, no, hang on, I got a voice. I know how to fix this problem. And you step up and you stand out. So I think the leadership aspect is a really good one.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, it's great for him. Yeah. Another news that was not swept under the rug, but I think all predictable. FIFA announced the next two World Cups after 26. Yeah. As anticipated. Hold on, this is going to take me a minute. 2030 is in Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay. For people who don't know yet, the reason is, I think it's the hundredth year of the World cup and it's originally in Uruguay, so they want to have the opening game in Uruguay. I'm sure Argentina and Paraguay will play also in home games there, and then the entire tournament will shift to Europe. I personally love this.

[Tim Howard]

You love.

[Landon Donovan]

I think.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, I just think having multiple Games on multiple continents. Forget about the logistics because whoever has to deal with that, I pray for you. But I love it. It gives the opportunity for the game to be seen all, literally all over the world in different time zones, different times. I know there's a bit of a challenge for the players and I know you feel passionately about this, but I think it's waiting my turn. Go ahead.

[Tim Howard]

I hate it. I hate it. You and I talk about this.

[Landon Donovan]

Why?

[Tim Howard]

Well, yeah, so I hate it because ultimately, and this is not us talking here in 2024, this is going to be the same conversation on Everybody's lips in 2030. The travel, that distance of travel is going to wear on teams. Now I know, I know the teams that have to come from South America in those opening games will have quote unquote, ample rest. But the fact of the matter is when you get to the later stages and I'm talking last four or get to a final, I think there'll be a team, if there's a team from that started the tournament in South America who I think is going to have a disadvantage because of that travel for teams who don't.

[Landon Donovan]

So you mean like cumulative, accumulative. Yes, because guys do this all the time. They go from there up and back and.

[Tim Howard]

Totally, totally. But it's. But in the midst of a tournament where these guys. Look, when you, when you travel back to. If you're a Brazilian and you travel back to somewhere in the Premier League in London, you've traveled back to Paris and play for Paris Saint Germain, whatever the case is, the fact of the matter is you don't actually have to perform on the one off. You can maybe you take the week, the weekend off. It's not going to be the case with these teams. And so I just. Yes, I know they know how to travel on first class planes and charter planes and get their sleep. Right. I just, I ultimately think travel's disadvantage in 2014, we had, we had, we travel more than any team in Brazil as the US Team, we had the most miles logged and it was hard. It was, it's not the reason we lost in, in that particular case, but it could be and I don't love it.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, thanks for the reminder about 2014. I was watching it.

[Tim Howard]

Sorry.

[Landon Donovan]

Appreciate that.

[Tim Howard]

The other World cup that was announced was 2034 in Saudi Arabia and it's an interesting one because Qatar was not that long ago. I mean, from today it wasn't that long ago. By 2034 it will be. But playing a World cup in the winter has its drawbacks, but then there's a, there's also a benefit, you know, for the European players in the middle of their season. It's not at the end. We, you know, it throws scheduling into a little bit of a. For a loop in, in terms of league schedule. But what's your thoughts on. On the winter World cup in Saudi Arabia?

[Landon Donovan]

So I was there, and I was there in Qatar. Weather was perfect in the winter. So that was, that was a big plus. Qatar was amazing because you could literally drive everywhere. So we were doing game a day on Fox and you could just drive, drive back to hotel, drive to the game, drive back to. And that's not going to be the case certainly in Saudi Arabia, nor is it in any World cup usually. What I used to find interesting, and I was playing in MLS during the time when the World cup came around in June. I always remember you guys would finish in like May and maybe you a little longer if you had a Cup final or something like that. There was some such a challenge from when Bruce was there and Bob, how do they, how do the coaches manage you guys from Europe when you get in? So you might have played 48 games and now it's the end of the season and you have to be tired. I mean, it's. Your body gets used to playing a certain number of games and then shutting down for a month or two. But in World cup years, it's like, guess what? You're going straight into a tournament. So I remember with Claudio Reyna in the early days, I think maybe in 02, and Bruce, I think he just shut him down for like seven or 10 days, but then there's a risk. Okay, do you lose rhythm? Do you. Sure. Fitness. And how do you get it back? And it's this huge challenge. So what I saw in 2022 was the inverse, the total opposite, and me as an MLS player, we would start our season in March. So by the time June came around, I was flying. Yeah, I was fit, I was hitting my peak. But now was the opposite. So MLS guys in Qatar were like, they were tired. Like, you can see they'd been through a long season. Now they're at the end of season. And the European players conversely were great. And I actually think it made the World cup better. I think just the energy of the players was better because it was not at the end of their season. So I expect the same. Yeah, totally Saudi Arabia. It's going to be. It was interesting. If you watch the, the event and I've been in One of those rooms in. I don't know what year it was, but we were bidding. We were bidding on the 2018 world.

[Tim Howard]

1818.

[Landon Donovan]

I was in the room in 2010 when Set Blatter opened the envelope and of course, where was this? It was in Switzerland.

[Tim Howard]

Oh, you were in Switzerland.

[Landon Donovan]

Switzerland. So we were in the room and stupid, naive Americans, we actually thought we had a chance. And this thing had probably been baked years ago with Qatar and. Or Russia and Qatar. And so it was the 2022 World Cup. We were bidding on being in that room, and they opened the envelope. At least there was some anticipation, like, what is going to happen? What's the envelope? So Gianni Infantino was there, and after they announced Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, everybody knew that then it was going to Saudi Arabia because Saudi Arabia in 2034, nobody else bid on it because they knew they were going to lose. Australia pulled out a long time ago. So he had to, like, uncomfortably open the envelope and go, saudi Arabia. Some surprise to everybody.

[Tim Howard]

Amazing.

[Landon Donovan]

So it was a little. It was a little awkward, but I think it's going to be fine. I know people have a lot of issues around Saudi Arabia for a lot of different reasons, but I think it's still good to grow the sport wherever you can.

[Tim Howard]

I think that's right.

[Landon Donovan]

So I'm fine with it.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, let's take a break. When we get back, we will talk about the Premier League. Lot of stuff going on this weekend in the Premier League. I'm excited to pick your brain on it. You didn't work this weekend. No, but we all watched, and it'll be fun to dive into. We'll be right back. Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen.

[Tim Howard]

The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

Since 2019, Volkswagen has been on a mission to drive the future of the sport we all love. And VW is committed to making it more diverse, inclusive and accessible. Accessible for everyone.

[Tim Howard]

They're not just talking about it. They're out there doing it. VW's partnerships, programs and soccer clinics are unlocking opportunities for the next generation of players and fans.

[Landon Donovan]

As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly powered by the people.

[Tim Howard]

Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting us [e-mail] this episode is brought to.

[C]

You by Amazon Prime. There's nothing sweeter than baking cookies during the holidays. With Prime. I get all my ingredients delivered right to my door, fast and free. No last minute store trips needed. And of course, I blast my favorite holiday playlist on Amazon Music. It's the ultimate soundtrack for creating unforgettable memories. From streaming to shopping. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

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[Tim Howard]

Oh, the Premier League. Yeah, it was derby weekend in Manchester, my former home. Good old city of Manchester. It was a big one. It was a big one for so many reasons, because City had to win, right? Like, they had to get back on track. And Man United under, under new manager Ruben Am, like, they need something, right? They need a marker. As you start to build your team, you have to put a marker down and feel like you're building towards the right things. You know, for all of you who didn't see the game, and I'm guessing most of our listeners saw the game, it was fairly dull. You know, it was kind of a little bit of a shadow boxing match. But then it exploded into life as you saw Ahmad with the winning penalty. Awful giveaway from Mateus Nunez. Bruno Fernandez obviously equalized. And then, you know, City, of course, trying to push for the winner. But in the end, it was a red weekend.

[Landon Donovan]

Manchester's red, my friend. Yeah, the game I was watching in New York, it was boring. God, it was boring for a long. And I just kept thinking to myself, this is sad that these two clubs have come to this, like, where they're both fearful, like, not to lose the game. But out of nowhere. You have to give Ahmad so much credit. He's kind of been thrown in under Amaran and Amaran clearly trusts him and he keeps performing. And it was impressive. It was impressive to watch twice now. Emma has beaten Pep in the last, whatever month and a half won in when he was back in Portugal and now with United. So I don't. I'm kind of running out of things to say for City, Tim. Sure. Like I don't, I don't know where they go. And Pep looks the same. He's like, he just doesn't know what to do. Matthias Nunez has an absolute shocker the last five minutes and he just doesn't know what to do.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I mean Nunez gives a pass away and then he. And then of course you try with all your might to make up for it and then give away the penalty. Compound mistakes lead to goals in soccer. So, you know, that's not something that, you know, Pep Guardiola can legislate for. Right. Ahmad Diallo, I think the great thing and you know this is when a new manager comes in, it gives everybody, everybody a new opportunity and oftentimes flowers bud from that we didn't even expect. And Diallo, Diallo because of the way the system works. There are crucial pieces in Amarim's system and one of those is the wide areas. In particular the wingback, the winger, depending on what he plays. But Ahmad has seemed to pick the system up really quickly. Right. And so he's had a ton of good performances to the extent where you look at it. And I would argue that since Amaram's come in, he's been the best performer of any of anybody. Obviously there's been some good performances through, you know, Bruno Fernandez, who we expect, and Hojlund, you know, has kind of come to life. But Ahmad for sure has been one of the big bright spots for me.

[Landon Donovan]

My old assistant coach at Loyal, Nate Miller, used to say the right player in the right place, the right time with the right coach.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And like that's what he's. He's now in the right place. He probably thought for a while there, is this the right, right place for me? Is this the right time for me? Is this the right coach? But it all came together perfectly and that you see that all the time. A player you did not expect all of a sudden playing all the time because he fits what they do. Remember, these are all world class players. Right. Even if you don't agree with some of the signings that your top clubs have, they're still very good players and there's a reason you're going after them. So congrats to him.

[Tim Howard]

That's why you need to manage it. You who can pull that out of particularly a lot of these young players look so much to unpack here topic by topic when it comes to the Darby first one for me, Kyle Walker and most of us saw this Kyle Walker and Hoylen there's a coming together where you see this a lot in soccer, right? You get angry and you're not supposed to. You're not supposed to fight because there's violent conduct, right? So if you raise your hands on someone, you're going to get red cards. So oftentimes, players, in their anger, they come together and they put each other's head on.

[Landon Donovan]

So macho, I'm going to head butt you.

[Tim Howard]

Right? And so Hojlund initiates the movement, but it's not a head, but it's a coming together. And Kyle Walker leans in, and as they're touching foreheads, Kyle Walker then goes down like a sack of potatoes. And. Which is, you know, it's. It's shithousery, which is one of my favorite words and actions. And so, you know, I think they both got booked, if I'm not mistaken. But, yeah, I mean, Kyle Walker, like, bro, come on. I actually don't. I don't mind it. I think sometimes when, you know, I think the referee in those moments, I like when the referee is, like, strong and basically looks at him just like, get up. Like, stop this nonsense. Everybody get up. There was nothing in it. You're getting a booking. You're getting a booking. Let's go.

[Landon Donovan]

So, you know, it's always funny for me, Tim, and those, and I know it because I did it, you know, like, if you really got hit or you didn't, like, you know, of course. And so he goes down, but then quickly he's like, oh, God, I'm gonna. And, like, with social media and everything, now everyone's gonna kill him. And they. He could see in his brain, like, he just knew in that moment, I gotta get up. And it's like when a guy, like, thinks he gets fouled for a pen, but it's not a penalty. And then they quickly go, okay, I better get up, because I'm gonna look like an absolute idiot if I have something.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Anyway, there's a follow on from that after the match, because Hoyle wasn't ready to let it go. I'll let you read the quote.

[Landon Donovan]

Oh, this is so good. Okay, so. So Hoyle goes on social media, on Instagram, I think, and it's got a picture of him and Kyle, he and Kyle Walker coming together. And he says, manchester is red, violets are blue. What a brilliant performance. But the Oscar goes to. Very good. I love it. Whoever his PR team is. Congratulations to that. Why do you hate it? What's wrong with that?

[Tim Howard]

Here's why. Because Hojlund, his Price tag's too big for him and he's a young player. Right? Price tag's too big.

[Landon Donovan]

It's not his fault.

[Tim Howard]

Maybe he. I would say.

[Landon Donovan]

What do you mean? Maybe it's not his fault someone paid that much for him.

[Tim Howard]

He's underperformed. He's underperformed. It's his fault.

[Landon Donovan]

Okay, go ahead.

[Tim Howard]

Well, it's his fault. He's underperformed 100%.

[Landon Donovan]

Yes, that. But not this one.

[Tim Howard]

I like him as a young striker. What I would say is since you've gotten to United, your team has stunk, you've underperformed. And by the way, if they had won this Darby last season, he wouldn't have said that. It's really easy to kick City when they're down. So this, this social media, I think it was on Instagram, wherever it lives. It's very convenient to me. What I'd prefer is that he just keeps doing the business and look, you can say whatever you want on your own social media. That's, that's, that's again, it's for me to judge at this point, but it's not for me to do. If you want to do, that's fine. It's just a very convenient manner. I think he got caught up in the emotion of it because as I said, had they beat a title winning city last season in that season and they won the derby, he wouldn't have said those things.

[Landon Donovan]

No, there's no.

[Tim Howard]

He wouldn't have. Okay, so you're right. That's, that's my point.

[Landon Donovan]

I agree. Just perform. That's fine. Interestingly, before the game the news was so watching the NBC broadcast everyone was surprised. Two Robbies and Rebecca, that two players were left out of the squad altogether and not due to injury. That was Garnacho and Marcus Rashford. And I was thinking to myself Tim during the game, okay, this is a, this is one of those moments as a coach where and I give em a lot of credit for this because this is a hard thing to do. It's almost a make or break moment because you go into the game, they're losing for majority of the game. I can promise you at some point even if he goes and looks in the mirror Amaram at night and said if they had lost that game 1 0, I'm sure at some point on the bench he would have said maybe use Garnacho right now even of whatever's going on off the field. And it's clear there's things going off the, on off the field how they treat Each other, their teammates, or there's something going on there between Rashford, Garnacho and the rest of their teammates. I'm sure at some point he said, maybe Marcus Rashford can pull a goal out. Because guess what? Players in the end, Tim.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Care about winning now. They want their teammates to be good teammates. They want to. They want them to be fun, to be around, nice to be around. But at the end, you'll put up with a lot of crap if the guy performs. Now, those two haven't been performing over the last few years at the level that everyone expects, but I'm sure at some point he was going, did I get this one right? Then all of a sudden, they win the game. And now I can promise you, today when they're walking back in the locker room after a day off, he's gone. See, guys, told you. See, we don't need them. And if you don't do things the way I want, you're not playing. And so now Rashford and Garnacho have a decision to make.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Do they just say, I'm done. I'm done. I'm over it. Fine, Move me out. Or. Or they get on. They get on the bus. And if they don't get on the bus, I promise you they're gonna be gone?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. It's an interesting one for me, LD, because these are the same decision was taken, but they're not the same for me because.

[Landon Donovan]

What do you mean?

[Tim Howard]

Well, I think two. I think. I think going forward, it's not going to be the same. Right. I think just two players at different points of their United career. So, yeah, I mean, to your point, there's going to be a time in that game where Amaran's saying, I wish I could have them. But I think when you're a manager and you take such a strong stance about player selection, you know that going into it, you basically are telling yourself, this is a big decision and there's going to be some fallout from this. But I have to. For the greater good of the team. And I think. I think his quotes. And one of our amazing producers will probably put this up on our screen at some point. There was a quote from Amarin. He named a number of things that you have to do to get in his team. Right. And any number of those things is what Garnacho and Rashford weren't doing.

[Landon Donovan]

And so there's probably other things that he doesn't want to say publicly, but, you know, but what he's doing to him is he's sending A message to the whole team by what he did with them. And so when you. When you send that message to everyone, it's powerful and it carries a lot of weight.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. And look, here's the quote he said. For me, it's important. The performance in training, the performance in games, the way you dress, the way you eat, the way you engage with your teammates, the way you push your teammates, all of that's important. Right? So what he's basically saying, there is either one or all of those things. Probably most of those things are something he doesn't like and he's not seeing the issue. What I would say, and this speaks to the enormity of the job and the task that Ruben Abram has, is this club has been littered with mediocrity for so long, the standards have dropped. There's not a lot of leaders. By the way, for the record, I was at United three years. You can say I was amazing or I sucked, it doesn't matter. What I do know is I was inside those walls for four years and I can assure you, Sir Alex Ferguson. Let me scroll. Would never have had to say, the performance and training isn't good in games. The way you dress, the way. You know why? Because Gary Neville and Roy Keane would have been like, what are you wearing that. Incorrect. You eat like crap. Sort yourself out. Right? Because the leadership structure at Manchester United was so strong within the dressroom. So that would have never had to. That would have never had to been said on the outside. And so, look, I think when I look at Marcus Rashford, he's a player I really like. I think he's a player who at one point in time, a couple years ago, did some things on the pitch that we thought, this kid is world class. He's playing for England. He's going to continue to be world class. I think what we've seen is maybe he's not the guy who just always wants the ball. Maybe he's a squad player who wants to kind of fit in, get in the slipstream and be a really, really good Premier League player. And by the way, that's actually okay, because I think some of the things he does off the field are brilliant. I think he's a. He's a top talent. Whether that's at Manchester United or not. His time at Manchester United feels like it could be coming to an end. That's my personal opinion. Now, Garnacho, supremely talented young player. He's got magic in his boots. Can play on the left side, can play on the right Side, this is a matter of. He's not been schooled since he's gotten to the club. There's been zero leadership internally in the dressing room. He's somebody who needs direction and boundaries and I think Amaram could be the guy who gives it to him.

[Landon Donovan]

Well said. Let's move on quick. The team that nobody still wants to talk about and they just keep flying under the radar at Chelsea and by the way, if you haven't looked, they are two points back now of Liverpool. Liverpool have the game in hand. The Merseyside Derby. But they won again, 2:1 on the weekend and they just keep going. And just talk to me, Tim, about, you know, the Todd Bowley approach. And when he first came in, everyone was, you know, kind of befuddled by it, but all of us, I mean.

[Tim Howard]

You know, I think why I give Todd Bowley so much credit is because I was one of those people confused, right? We're all confused by, you know, he comes from a baseball background, right. And so we understand when, when you look at City currently you look at Everton and Nottingham Forest, right, These were teams that were knocked back by profit and sustainability rules, right? There was, there was, it was a mess for some of these clubs. They're getting fined and docked points and all that. And Todd Bowley's come in and he's basically said, we're gonna, we're gonna only sign young players under a certain age. We're gonna extend these contracts instead of giving them two, you know, three year contracts with an option. These are like seven, eight, nine year contracts. We've never seen that, right? And to add to the confusion, right, with Todd Boley, it was, it was, he had Grand Potter as a manager, Lampard was in there, Tuchel Pochettino, right. So it was chaotic and maybe by design, but the thing about Todd Bolley that I found interesting was when you're in the position like he is and things aren't going right, you automatically come out and defend yourself, right? He didn't do that.

[Landon Donovan]

No, he was quiet.

[Tim Howard]

Which added to the mystery, right? When you get when your team stinks and what you're trying to put in place isn't working. These young players weren't working. This bloated squad of 30 plus players wasn't working. You continually bring in managers who have to deal with this bloated squad and then you sack them very quickly. This sounds and feels like chaos now that the dust is settling. And Mareska, by the way, Enzo Mareska, hats off to you. I mean, you can already probably have manager of the season. I mean, he's doing that good of a job, is he? He trimmed the squad. He basically said, your Raheem Sterlings and your people who I don't have any use for, which is find your surplus requirements, feel free to move on. Right? He did at the beginning of the season. Then he basically said, look, we are in a European competition, a Premier League competition. I'm going to have a Premier League 11 more, most likely. And then I'm going to have a midweek 11. Right. And the two aren't really going to blend. I'm not going to chop and change too much. These are going to. And that's what those young players needed. They needed a belief in because what was happening before was the squad was so big with these talented young players, it was always okay, well this will be my center back pairing today and then next week I'll do another center back pairing and then you'll play on the wing. One week it didn't work, right? And Enzo Maresca has come in and has been so incredibly strong and said, if I'm the manager, this is how we're going to do it. And we're starting to see the success of the youngest team in the Premier League. I mean, absolutely flying high. And look, the talent is there. Clearly, Todd Boehly wasn't signing bad players. He was talent. He was signing really talented young players. But with that comes some, some worry. And right now they're getting it right. And I mean there's a lot of surprise in the season. City's downfall being one of them where Nottingham Forest is, and we'll talk about that in a second, that's a surprise. But I mean, Jesus, Chelsea and Liverpool at the top of the table battling it out. That for me is just like you would have never thought it.

[Landon Donovan]

But it's happening and it's real. And Chelsea seem to keep an eye on real quick before break. So Forest come from behind and beat Villa 2 1. I just. The only thing that like Forest. Congrats you great season. The Emmy Martinez save, if you have not seen it, Tim, just real quick for me, I can't remember seeing a better save because the balls behind him, I'm not even sure he knows it's there. He reaches back and pulls it off the goal line. And just as a goalkeeper, how, just how difficult is that?

[Tim Howard]

Well, by so many accounts he's certainly the top goalkeeper on the planet for a lot of reasons, club and country. But in the top three, of course, I jumped out of my seat When I saw it, I just think when there's a reaction save, and that save is basically behind the goalkeeper. So a goalkeeper has to, in a last ditch effort, reach behind themselves to claw a ball out. That's when, that's when the save starts to, starts to gain momentum and kind of become otherworldly. And for me, that was that. It was a reaction. We know his reactions are really good. And for him to be able to claw it out when it was clearly behind his body, nearly behind the line, those are the most impressive. So I thought, I thought my hats off to him again. But he makes so many of those that you're almost like this somewhat becomes routine. But yeah, look, Nottingham Forest, fourth place in the Premier League. I could have never imagined that. I mean, when I think about before the season, what you'd have got better odds on or what would have surprised you more? Would it be Nottingham Forest in fourth place or would it be Manchester City's down fall? I'm not sure you get odds on either of them.

[Landon Donovan]

There's very few times in my life where I'm watching a game and I say, wow, what a save. Or what a goal. And I was like, my son was with me in New York and I was like, what a save. He's like, what, what, what, what? I'm like, just watch this. This was phenomenal. Yeah, that save was certainly surprising. I think what was not surprising, two sackings on the weekend. Gary O'Neal and Russell Martin for Wolves in Southampton respectively. Kind of saw it both coming. Russell Martin actually left the field for the whistleblow halftime and I think he knew it was over. They knew it was over. It's always tough to see that, but now there's opportunity. So every manager now is contacting those clubs and saying all their agents are contacting and saying how great of a manager they would be there and be interesting to see where, what happens there.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because you never want to see managers get sacked or lose their job. The fact of the matter is, in the Premier League, with the business being so high and the financial structure that is global, football managers will get sacked in the Premier League. And the fact of the matter is, Wolves and Southampton are firmly rooted in the bottom three and they're just not playing well. And you know, I think it's a cautionary tale and this is a, this is a big debate is do you go and play expansive football or do you just try and stay in the Premier League by hook or by crook? And I think you have to have a plan A, B and possibly C going into the season so that it doesn't feel like a radical change when you do it. Look, what I would say is I'm very interested to see what names pop up for these jobs because these both of these teams, although there's still time because of when the when the sackings happened, both of these teams are going to struggle to stay up. And so you now have to find a really good manager who's willing to take that challenge on. Not easy.

[Landon Donovan]

And maybe willing to go down with them, stay down with them and come back up, right?

[Tim Howard]

Definitely.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we will get into Mailbag questions and anything but soccer right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen.

[E]

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[Landon Donovan]

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[Tim Howard]

Okay, time for everybody's favorite segment of the week. Well, if it's not everyone's favorite, it's certainly Jordan's favorite because she gets to have air time. Mailbag questions Jordan, get on in here.

[Landon Donovan]

Jordan, by the way, you were so cold too at the Times Square. All you poor things.

[F]

I Was so bundled with my hat.

[Landon Donovan]

And poor thing, Jordan was there.

[Tim Howard]

I braved it.

[Landon Donovan]

Oh, that poor girl.

[F]

And I was kneeling on the ground. Cause I was trying to take pictures.

[Tim Howard]

But you know what? Then you also got your own airtime, because I think there was quite a number of times we had to take pictures with you.

[Landon Donovan]

She's a photographer.

[F]

I was like, guys, can I get a selfie? I'm a big fan.

[Tim Howard]

Everything's about. It's about you. This segment's about you. Roll in.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, what do you got?

[F]

Okay, so my first question comes from Tyler via email. He says in David Beckham's Netflix documentary, he shared a story about the conflict with Diego Simeone, but ended up swapping jerseys with one another, which showed great sportsmanship given the history between the two. Do Tim Orlandon have a similar story with an opposing player?

[Landon Donovan]

Wow. Yeah. Like, yeah, there are a lot. Like, there are lots of guys on the field I absolutely hated. Like, could not. I mean, there were guys. Kyle Beckerman I played with when I was 16 on the U17 national team, and every time we played Salt Lake, every time for 90 minutes, he would just bitch and moan at the referee. I mean, every call was like, what are you talking about?

[Tim Howard]

It wasn't.

[Landon Donovan]

And I'd say, kyle, dude, you can't complain about every foul, right?

[Tim Howard]

Kyle just.

[Landon Donovan]

Okay, he can. I absolutely couldn't stand him. But that's why he was a winner. Like, he just cared so much. And of course we would trade jerseys. Now. We were good friends, so it's a little different. But, yeah, I mean, the beauty of sports for me, Tim and JR Is like, you can go through that in all those battles, and then you leave it right there. Like, I love hockey. After every hockey playoff series, after all the things they do and they're fighting and literally fighting all that, they take the gloves off and they shake hands. And I love that about sports.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. I mean, the one that stands out is I don't remember if. And I have traded jerseys with guys who I didn't like or didn't like me. And. Because, again, it is, as we're saying, it's the ultimate sign of respect. Like, it's literally forget anything else that's like, okay, this person and I understand each other. And I remember 2015, Diego Costa and I at Goodison Park. Diego Costa was a brilliant striker for Chelsea at the time, and he was always mixing it up, and we were getting pasted, and so I just thought, here, this was a perfect day. This was one of those stories where it was like the perfect day where I'm like, I suck so bad today that I really want to get sent off because I am so tired of being out here sucking. And I think we lost 5:1 or something like that at home. Might have been opening weekend, and he had said something to Seamus Coleman, who was my right back and friends. So I got to grips with him, and I gripped him up, and I was begging for a fight, begging for it, and I couldn't be separated. And after the game, they, like I said, whooped up on us, and we hugged it out and hugged and kissed and walked off the field arm and arm, and it was like this. You just kind of understand that there's.

[Landon Donovan]

Just part of the show. Yeah, it's part.

[Tim Howard]

Part of it. Right? And. And you. You appreciate the. The competitiveness.

[Landon Donovan]

We could do a whole episode on jerseys and stuff, but, like, the best thing was back with the Galaxy. Anytime we played, like, Real Madrid or Barcelona in a friendly, guys who were like, the 28th guy on the roster the minute the whistle blew, were sprinting to Cristiano and Messi and be like, can we trade jersey? And they look at him, like, amazing. Nah, bro.

[Tim Howard]

Absolutely.

[Landon Donovan]

Stop.

[Tim Howard]

I don't mind the effort, though.

[Landon Donovan]

I love the effort. Effort. But go on.

[F]

All right, J.R. here's a question from James via email. Do you see the relegation system implemented in soccer in the U.S. james, you.

[Landon Donovan]

Want to open a can of worms, huh, bud? The question is, do we see it happening? My. My gut is that it will happen in some form eventually. Now, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm not trying to be vague right now. If you are, the Vancouver White Caps, for example, James, are up for sale. And I think the price I saw was 475 million. Let's call it $500 million. If I'm a multibillionaire and I pay $500 million for a franchise, and the next season, I could get relegated and lose all my revenue, and my valuation gets cut by whatever, 50%, 70%, 80%. Why would I ever sign up for that? I mean, it's just like, that's just an easy business decision. So they would have to find some creativity, Tim. But I think eventually that system is really enticing and exciting to sports fans once they understand it.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. So, James, great question. We at Unfiltered Soccer Promise, because we've already talked about it internally, to have a much larger discussion on promotion, relegation at a much higher level than just a short blur, because it's an awesome conversation. It's one that I can tell you for. So I don't think promotion relegation can work in America and I'll give you loads of reasons why. I think that as we go forward in these podcasts. A lot of it starts with the conversation about what Landon just spoke about in terms of valuation and, and losses and profits. What I would say, and this is the fun part about it, I have had multiple conversations. I'm still on the side of no, I've had multiple promotion relegation conversations with people who I trust and who I respect and who I love. These are agents, these are head of leagues, these are owners. And I've staunchly argued my point against and I've walked away from that conversation and thought, I can see it happening. I can see it happening for the reasons I've been told. So it's a debate that, look, I would happily jump on board with anything that continues to grow the game of soccer in this country. So that's hands down. If that means yes or no, I'm on board. I just currently, for my own feelings, think that it won't work. And there's some valuable conversations around that that we'll have.

[F]

Okay, before I read the last question, I just would like to mention to people that we don't have an episode next. We're taking a week off for the holiday, but we will be back with a special episode on New Year's Eve. And we would love to get lots of interesting questions from people, so don't forget to send them to us on social media. Or you can email me if you want to. Feedbackfilteredsoccker.

[Landon Donovan]

I do read all the emails just so people know. Jordan. It's in Tim's contract that he can't work more than four weeks in a row.

[Tim Howard]

So all I do is work.

[F]

That's why we're all I do. Okay, so last email is from Parker and he wants to know, what can I do. I also want to know this question, Parker, what can I do as a US Men's National Team fan and a fan of soccer in general to help grow the game in the usa?

[Landon Donovan]

Great question. If you love the game, Parker, the easiest way is to talk to people about it and try to get them what I always say, try to get them to go to a game. The game on tv for people who don't appreciate all the nuance and what the game is about can be boring. It can. And there's a lot of sports. I feel like if I watch cricket on tv, I'm like, this is so Boring. If I go to a cricket match, which I haven't, or if I talk to people who know about, it becomes much more interesting. I might not go and I might not love it, but give them an opportunity to go with you to a game. I've never once had someone go to a game and not say, wow, I loved it. What an experience. So get them to go with you to a game. Teach them about the game, all the nuances, and you got a good chance of getting them involved. Great question.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, yeah, great question. Great answer. LD look, for me, it's about individuals creating community around the game. And what is creating community around the game? Landon said go, Go to a game. Absolutely. There's so many levels of the game that you can support, whether that be the highest level or everywhere in between. Go to bars, restaurants, watch games with friends, support local soccer teams in your community. Play, sign up for leagues, anything that surrounds the game. It's interesting now that I don't kick a ball and I can no longer play or don't want to play. If I'm brutally honest, I have so many opportunities in my everyday life to just create community around a game. Yes, some of my jobs mean that, but watch games, talk to coaches, just offline, not official capacities. Just connect people within the game. And I obviously have a platform to do that. But in general, in your local communities, I just think you just have to continue to create the community around soccer and people will get excited. And the great thing is you could be the steward for that cause. Right. And so you could get people in your office and say, let's go grab a beer. Everybody wants to go hang out and be around people they like and then introduce them to soccer, you know, And I think that's important. Just watch it on tv.

[Landon Donovan]

Love that.

[F]

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

[Landon Donovan]

Jordan. Thank you.

[Tim Howard]

Thanks, Jordan.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, Timmy, Last but certainly not least, anything but soccer. All right, So I like to tie a lot into the NFL as you do. So I was watching the Eagles, Steelers game yesterday. Yeah, okay. And the Eagles coach, Sirianni, Nick Sirianni, there was a play in the game. Jalen Carter, defensive tackle, gets an unnecessary roughness, like a whatever stupid 15 yard penalty called against him. Right. The Eagles defensive lineman. So he comes off the field, and when he gets off the field, Sirianni, who is the head coach, walks over to talk to him about it, and I'm guessing he wasn't going to say nice things about it, how it was unacceptable, et cetera, before he can get there. The defensive line coach for the Eagles stepped in and who knows what was said? Hopefully they have audio on the sidelines, which I know they do because I see a lot of clips with NFL audio. So they better release that and in no uncertain terms told the head coach, like, leave him alone, basically. And I'm watching this and I've been a head coach, right, And I'm thinking to myself, the message that sends to your staff, that you're allowing a staff member to come in and cut in front of what you want to say to one of your players and to the rest of the team is crazy, right? You have to have, in organizations like this and with macho, egotistical men, you have to have hierarchy and you have to know who the boss is. You have to. And if you don't, there are big problems. The crazy thing, The Eagles are 12 and 2. They won the game. But I can tell, and it's not a secret, like people who follow the team or whatever. It's a bit of a house of cards that's ready to crumble. And I could not believe. Tim, can you imagine one of the assistant coaches or Chris Woods, a goalkeeper coach, getting in front of Sir Alex Ferguson when he's trying to talk to you and say, hey, hey, hey, I got it, pal, leave him alone. I mean, what a loss his mind. So I could not believe it watching it. And it just makes me wonder, like, how long is that sustainable?

[Tim Howard]

Well, I think, I think the house of cards part of it is when you look at the Philadelphia Eagles last year, that was a bit of the knock on them of why things imploded. Right. And so maybe there's a carry on effect to what you're saying. There's some truth in that. Couple things I know people are going to say. And of course it's not politically correct, nor should you say that. Like I'm a soft soccer player and all we do is get fouled and roll around. That's fine. The fact of the matter is, football is so over aggressive. I'm not talking about the tackling and the hitting. That's brilliant. I feel like I never see a conversation on the sideline that's anything other than some guy like being beat red in the face shouting. It's just such an over aggressive thing. And by the way, if you ever watch me play, I like to shout. That's not my point, but it always surprises me. Like in football there's so much energy and emotion and like, and like adrenaline that that's all they do is just yell and scream for no apparent Reason.

[Landon Donovan]

It's just testosterone, dude.

[Tim Howard]

It is. And so, you know, when I think about. But the funny part of that is, like, I always. I always think it's interesting. Like on the, on the outside, we only see. We only see it from one point of view, right? And either maybe we're at the game, but most of the time we see it on television from an angle and it's a replay of the same angle of people arguing. But I've been in these, you know, you and I have been in these dresses. I've been in dressrooms where it's all kicked off and things have been said to the head coach. And I always think, the head coaches, that's the top of the pyramid. That sanctity can never be broken. And I remember being in a dressing room where literally my best friend on the team, who, if I stood up to him would literally just go boom. And pummel me into the ground. That's how strong he was. And I remember there being an argument with, to your point, with him, who was very much an alpha male for whatever that means in today's society. He was like, it was his way or the highway. This is my best friend. And there was a. The coach said something to him, like, did something that he didn't like. So my friend stands up and I think, oh, God. And everyone thought, oh, God, this is after a loss, that he was literally going to hit our head coach. And I remember taking. Getting up from my stool and. And beelining it for my best friend and thinking, he's going to have to smash me first, which he would have. But I'm not going to let him hit. Like, even if I agree with my best friend, he cannot do anything to my head coach. He cannot hit him. He cannot do it. Because once that happens, everything's lost. Thankfully, I did not get beat up that day, nor did our head coach. At some point, hours later, cooler heads prevailed. But, yeah, I agree, if you're the head coach all, ultimately you have carte blanche to say and do whatever you want, whether people like it or not. So we have to be respected.

[Landon Donovan]

Right? Like that. That was so disrespectful, that whole interaction. I was thinking, how do you come back from that as a coach?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it's hard. What I would say is being a Giants fan, any dysfunction in Dallas or in Philadelphia makes you happy. I appreciate. Makes me happy. So long. May it continue. Sorry. Eagles fans probably won't be at an Eagles game.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, I will say, Tim, and you know, we can end on this. We've been in the game a long time. We've been, you know, we're in touch with people all involved in the game on different levels on many different occasions. I have seen teams succeed where stuff like that is going on behind the scenes, win championships, et cetera, where it's a disaster, but they're just so much better or so much more talented that they can still win. Now, it's not a deal, but it happens, dude.

[Tim Howard]

Agreed.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, guys, thank you all for being with us today. Quick note, no show next week.

[Tim Howard]

Boo.

[Landon Donovan]

It's in Tim's contract. We'll be back on New Year's Eve with a New Year's Eve special. Meantime, remember to subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the show all across our social platforms at Unfiltered Soccer.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Thanks, everybody. It absolutely is not in my contract. I'm here for all of our listeners every week. Hit me up whenever you like and we'll connect. Thank you. To our presenting sponsor, vw. Have an amazing week. We'll see you in two weeks for another edition of Unfiltered Soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah. All the things to everyone celebrating.

[Tim Howard]

Enjoy.

[Landon Donovan]

See you Gu.