CONCACAF Nations League Loss: USMNT Reactions & Concerns

Summary

Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard: Episode Summary

Episode: CONCACAF Nations League Loss: USMNT Reactions & Concerns
Release Date: March 25, 2025
Hosts: Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Description: In this emotionally charged episode, Landon Donovan and Tim Howard delve deep into the U.S. Men’s National Soccer Team's disappointing performance in the CONCACAF Nations League. They explore issues surrounding player commitment, managerial decisions, and the team's readiness heading into the Gold Cup, with concerns mounting as the 2026 World Cup approaches.

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1. Introduction: A Day of Mourning

The episode opens with a somber tone as both hosts express their disappointment over the USMNT's recent performances. Tim Howard sets the stage by acknowledging the lack of competitive zeal observed in the team’s performances, particularly after the Gold Cup concludes with no competitive matches leading up to the World Cup.

Tim Howard (00:02): "They have to win the Gold Cup. After the Gold Cup's over, there's no more competitive games prior to the World Cup. Does anybody understand that?"

2. Reflecting on Player Commitment and National Pride

Landon Donovan articulates his frustration with the perceived lack of effort from some players, despite their evident talent and high-profile club affiliations. He emphasizes the responsibility that comes with wearing the national jersey, drawing parallels to profound experiences like visiting the DMZ in South Korea.

Landon Donovan (01:14): "There were players on the field who cared. But caring about playing a sport that you get paid to do should be the absolute bare minimum."

Donovan underscores that playing for the national team should transcend personal gain, calling for intrinsic motivation among players.

3. Managerial Decisions and Team Accountability

The conversation shifts to managerial decisions, critiquing Mauricio Pochettino’s handling of the team. Both hosts express skepticism about the coach's commitment and strategic choices, especially after the team’s poor results, including losses to Panama and Mexico.

Tim Howard (05:00): "This is a CONCACAF event. So CONCACAF controls it. But the planning for both the semifinal and the third and final and third place game were horrific."

They argue that Pochettino hasn't effectively responded to the team's shortcomings, questioning his strategy and ability to instill a winning mentality.

4. The Goalkeeper Controversy: Turner vs. Steffen

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the contentious decision to start Matt Turner over Zach Steffen. Donovan defends Steffen’s performance while criticizing Turner’s form and lack of recent playtime.

Landon Donovan (38:15): "If I turn just inside the 18 at that angle and hit that shot and it went in the Goal, I would feel like I just robbed a bank."

They highlight the inconsiderate nature of coaching decisions that seemingly disregard player readiness and performance, leading to critical game moments being mishandled.

5. Lack of Competitive Nature and Leadership

Both hosts lament the absence of a competitive spirit within the team. They compare the USMNT's approach unfavorably to renowned teams like Argentina, where players exhibit a fighting spirit and willingness to endure for their country.

Tim Howard (04:22): "There's a competitive element that's missing with this team."

They stress the need for leaders within the squad who can motivate and hold teammates accountable, noting a deficiency in leadership comparable to their era.

6. Structural Issues: Coaching Staff and Player Development

Donovan proposes the inclusion of American staff members within the coaching team to bridge the gap between players and management. He suggests that having former USMNT players as part of the staff could enhance accountability and understanding of the players' mindset.

Landon Donovan (58:23): "Having Clint Dempsey walk in and be a part of your staff and talk to you after performance like that is I think infinitely probably as valuable or maybe more valuable than hearing from your head coach."

7. Expectations and Urgency for the Gold Cup

With the Gold Cup approaching, Donovan and Howard express a sense of urgency. They deem the Gold Cup as a crucial tournament that the team must win to salvage their competitive edge before the World Cup.

Tim Howard (10:31): "We have to win the Gold Cup. If we're going to get beat, you're going to earn it."

The hosts are wary that the entire window of competitive play leading up to the World Cup might pass without substantial improvement, raising concerns about team cohesion and performance.

8. Proposed Solutions: Enhancing Team Dynamics and Accountability

Donovan discusses the need for a cultural shift within the team, advocating for honest feedback and tough love to foster resilience and commitment. He recounts personal experiences where candid criticism from teammates led to improved performance.

Landon Donovan (15:32): "Leaders can't be liked. If you want to be a leader and be liked, you're in the wrong profession."

Both hosts emphasize that genuine accountability, rather than superficial praise, is essential for the team's growth and success.

9. Player Motivation and External Influences

The discussion touches on how young players today are potentially less motivated by traditional incentives, suggesting that intrinsic factors must drive them. Donovan criticizes the current youth soccer system for not instilling the necessary resilience and work ethic.

Landon Donovan (44:18): "How do you find that, where you find that, but you better find it because it means more to Panama, it meant more to Canada, it means more to Mexico."

They argue that the environment surrounding player development, including the influence of agents and supportive circles, often fails to enforce the discipline required for national team success.

10. The Role of the Manager: Pochettino's Approach Under Scrutiny

Howard raises concerns about whether Pochettino truly embodies the ruthless managerial style needed to transform the team, questioning if his laid-back demeanor masks deeper strategic issues.

Tim Howard (47:17): "I've been covering him as a manager, and it's just kind of like, okay, when is that going to come out? Because this feels a little bit too laid back for what you're saying."

Donovan observes that Pochettino’s tactical decisions, such as unorthodox substitutions, may indicate a lack of urgency to instill competitiveness and determination within the squad.

11. Future Outlook: Hopes for Gold Cup and World Cup Preparations

Looking ahead, Donovan remains cautiously optimistic that the coaching staff will learn from recent failures and set a more determined tone in future camps. Both hosts agree that strong performances in the Gold Cup are pivotal for restoring faith and momentum ahead of the 2026 World Cup.

Landon Donovan (71:00): "I hope that we get into camp and the coaching staff has learned a lot from it and the tone is set very quickly. And more than that, I hope the players now leading into the camp...we owe our country more than that."

Conclusion: A Call for Change and Accountability

The episode concludes with an urgent call for introspection within the USMNT. Donovan and Howard urge both players and management to embrace accountability, foster a competitive spirit, and prioritize national pride over personal or club interests. They emphasize that without significant changes, the team risks failing to achieve its potential on the global stage.

Tim Howard (73:09): "It's an amazing thing that we are talking about effort and that not just us, because apparently fans of the show and the fans of the US Men's national team are also talking about. So. So people are seeing it and that's a crime. It really is."

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Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Tim Howard (00:02): "They have to win the Gold Cup. After the Gold Cup's over, there's no more competitive games prior to the World Cup. Does anybody understand that?"
• Landon Donovan (01:14): "There were players on the field who cared. But caring about playing a sport that you get paid to do should be the absolute bare minimum."
• Tim Howard (05:00): "This is a CONCACAF event. So CONCACAF controls it. But the planning for both the semifinal and the third and final and third place game were horrific."
• Landon Donovan (38:15): "If I turn just inside the 18 at that angle and hit that shot and it went in the Goal, I would feel like I just robbed a bank."
• Tim Howard (04:22): "There's a competitive element that's missing with this team."
• Landon Donovan (58:23): "Having Clint Dempsey walk in and be a part of your staff and talk to you after performance like that is I think infinitely probably as valuable or maybe more valuable than hearing from your head coach."
• Landon Donovan (15:32): "Leaders can't be liked. If you want to be a leader and be liked, you're in the wrong profession."
• Tim Howard (47:17): "I've been covering him as a manager, and it's just kind of like, okay, when is that going to come out? Because this feels a little bit too laid back for what you're saying."
• Landon Donovan (71:00): "I hope that we get into camp and the coaching staff has learned a lot from it and the tone is set very quickly. And more than that, I hope the players now leading into the camp...we owe our country more than that."
• Tim Howard (73:09): "It's an amazing thing that we are talking about effort and that not just us, because apparently fans of the show and the fans of the US Men's national team are also talking about. So. So people are seeing it and that's a crime. It really is."

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Final Thoughts

Landon Donovan and Tim Howard deliver an unfiltered and passionate critique of the US Men's National Soccer Team’s recent performances. Their candid discussion highlights systemic issues within the team’s structure, player motivation, and managerial strategies. As the Gold Cup approaches, the urgency for transformative change within the USMNT becomes palpable, with hopes high for renewed determination and accountability to elevate the team’s standing on the international stage.

Transcript

[Landon Donovan]

There's no divine right to win a game. You have to go earn it.

[Tim Howard]

They have to win the Gold Cup. After the Gold Cup's over, there's no more competitive games prior to the World Cup. Does anybody understand that?

[Landon Donovan]

Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S. soccer for the past five years.

[Tim Howard]

LD what's happening, bud? Usually we have a little bit of banter at the top. Today feels like a day of mourning. We're not going to banter.

[Landon Donovan]

No banter for me.

[Tim Howard]

But there's a lot. This is. No, this is CONCACAF Nations League wrap up, and it's not a lot of fun. It's not a lot of fun. I'm going to start us off by reading a quote from none other than yourself that went viral because people like to hear unfiltered takes. And you said after the game. I'm sick of hearing how talented this group of players is and all the amazing clubs they play for. If you aren't going to show up and actually give a shit about playing for your national team, decline the invite. Talent is great. Pride is better. On that note, I'm going to let you go.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, let me just. You know, when you go through, like, either a breakup or a hard time or you go through all the emotions. Right. And so I was expecting this morning, because last night was the Canada game. I was expecting to wake up much more calm, much more relaxed, and I'm like. I'm frustrated as someone who dedicated not only his adult life, but his entire life to helping soccer grow, as you did at the attitude and the demeanor and the effort. Now, I want to be careful, because words matter. I'm. There were players on the field who cared. Okay? But caring about playing a sport that you get paid to do should be the absolute bare minimum. Okay. The absolute bare minimum. Just. Just give a shit about actually playing. Okay. But when you play for your national team and, like, I have chills just talking about this right now.

[Tim Howard]

Mm.

[Landon Donovan]

There is such a responsibility. You know what we used to do, Tim, sometimes? You know, one of my first trips ever with the national team, we went to South Korea because we were gonna play in the World Cup.

[Tim Howard]

I was on that trip.

[Landon Donovan]

So we went the year before.

[Tim Howard]

Yep.

[Landon Donovan]

And we went to the dmz. And for people who don't know, the DMZ is the demilitarized zone between South Korea and North Korea. And you walk. There's this little building, and you walk in the building. And halfway through the building, you're in South Korean territory. And halfway, the other half, you're in North Korea. And you have these armored guards, Korean, American, North Korean, standing there. And it hits you in the face, dude, and you're like, whoa. These guys are protecting something way bigger than themselves, and they're putting their lives on the line for our country, okay? When you put on your jersey and you see the stars and stripes and you hear the national anthem, I don't care if there's one person in the crowd or 6 million people, you have an obligation to give a shit, okay? And be proud about playing for your country. And there were too many guys the last two games. And before that, by the way, there was the Mexico away game that we watched a few months ago. I. I'm like, do they even want to be out there? Are they willing to do something to put themselves on the line, to risk something, to get a result? Now, look, we're talking about soccer. It's not the end of the world, okay? But if you can't do that, just don't come into camp. Anthony Robinson wasn't feeling physically right. There's something going on. He said, you know, I appreciate, but I can't. Fine. Fair enough. Fine. If you're gonna go, you're gonna do all this social media and all the posts and all that, and take all that, then show up and perform, okay? And that's it. That's a starting point. If you lose, you lose. We all lost games. So I, I'm just. I'm so sick of it. They're so talented. They play at these great clubs. I'm like, who cares, dude? You know who doesn't play at great clubs? The Panamanian players.

[Tim Howard]

Yep, yep.

[Landon Donovan]

You know, and by the way, Tim. And we'll get into all this, and I'm. I'm going to go on a bunch of tangents to apologize in advance. If people hate.

[Tim Howard]

No apologies. That's what we do.

[Landon Donovan]

Mauricio Pochettino grew up in Argentina, okay? Can you imagine Argentina playing Uruguay? And eight or nine of the players on the field gave that kind of effort, dude, they. Listen. They would not be able to leave their hotel room to get back on the plane. They wouldn't. The fans wouldn't let them. They'd say, you ain't leaving. Sorry, bro. And our guys are just like, oh, ho hum, okay, I'll go back to my club and make my millions of dollars. And I'm sick of it, man. I'm sick of it.

[Tim Howard]

I am Yeah, I, I hear you. I mean, I think when I look, when I look overall at the two games. Massive disappointment. Massive. Because here's the thing. This is from an overall view. This is from a fan. Yes, I analyze soccer for a living, but as a fan, I'm hugely disappointed because none of this feels or looks good. US Soccer. And I've got some dear friends at US Soccer and ain't going to want to hear this. Yo, I watched the game yesterday. Again, I'm not the crowd control police, but I'm gonna continue to wear the hat. There's nobody there. I played in the most bang average summer friendlies at the most terrible time of the day in God knows what city. And there was more people than there was for that game. So the planning, it's the planning for both the semifinal and the third and the final and third place game were horrific. They're playing in front of nobody.

[Landon Donovan]

So that's okay. So let me jump in real quick to that because I got clarity on this this morning. So this is a CONCACAF event. Okay?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

So CONCACAF controls it.

[Tim Howard]

Okay.

[Landon Donovan]

So as far as that goes, that's a CONCACAF issue. However, that being said, US Soccer is obviously CONCACAF's most important part. Mexico being 1A.

[Tim Howard]

Of course.

[Landon Donovan]

Right. So you figure out a way to not play the opening game on Thursday.

[Tim Howard]

Of course.

[Landon Donovan]

And by the way, CONCACAF and with USR like they're having these conversations, don't make the lowest ticket price a hundred dollars.

[Tim Howard]

Right.

[Landon Donovan]

Because it's, it's ridiculous. Make it accessible so people can get in and watch. It's a joke. It's a joke. Now I just want to, I just want to, you know, give US Soccer some grace there. However, if I'm US Soccer and you're having these negotiations and concave's like we're going to make the lowest ticket price 100. You're like, no, no you ain't. You're going to play at 3:30 in the opening game. No, we ain't no right. We're playing at 7:30.

[Tim Howard]

Totally.

[Landon Donovan]

Listen, okay, continue.

[Tim Howard]

100%. And so, so, so that was an issue. Right. But believe me, not, not the biggest issue. There's no divine right to win a football match. So this isn't a concept of like they should have won both games and to hell with them. No, that's not, that's not the case. But, but the idea that, my firm belief is if we're, if we're in big games, and these were big games, these were semifinal and a competitive third place game, if we're going to get beat. You're going to walk off the field limping. That's the exchange. We don't get beat in you, Cruz. Ain't how it works. If we're going to get beat, you're going to earn it. And you're actually going to be desperate to get off the field because listen, I've played in games where my team's chasing shadows, but we've actually gone kick the lumb. People don't want to hear that. That's the thing. Football's too expansive now. Play between lines, get the ball in the six yard box and play. No, it's about everybody. Everybody in the world. The best game in world football is El Clasico, or it has been, right, Barcelona versus Real Madrid, Please. The next time you have an opportunity, watch the first 20 minutes of that game. There's nothing pretty about it. It's the best footballers in the world and there's nothing pretty about it because it's a mentality, it's a siege mentality. It's draw the lines, fight for what you're going to get and then the game opens up. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that it took for Gio Reina to come on the pitch and take a guy's knee off and then there wants to be a kerfuffle and a coming together that needed. Ever watch hockey? You ever watch hockey when you're playing a rival? Sometimes a puck isn't even. Isn't even touched before someone draws the battle lines. And so I. There's a. There's a competitive element that's missing with this team. Yes, there's talent in certain areas. Of course there's talent in certain areas. What we love and we talk about it all the time, but we have to talk about the other side of it. The competitive nature, the leadership. That's a big issue for this team. And Mauricio Pochettino was saying, I think he was quoted as, we have time. I tend to disagree with him a little bit because here's the thing, ld, this group of players got a manager sacked, lost three of the last four to Panama, have an abysmal showing in the Nations League. Abysmal. To finish fourth is a crime. And now, and by the way, by the way, before anybody, and we love your comments, so bring them in before any of the current players get upset with me. I've gotten coaches sacked as well. I've been a part of groups. You've been a part of groups that you don't perform well. Enough. Your teammates don't perform well enough where you get your coaches sacked. It sucks. But this group got a coach sacked, lost three out of four to Panama, finished fourth in the Nations League. I tell you what, tell you what. If you. If you thought all eyes were going to be on the Gold cup, by God. By God, they. They have to win. They have to win the Gold Cup. I don't know. After. After the. After the Gold Cup's over, there's no more competitive games prior to the World Cup. Does anybody understand that? I know there's friendlies. And by the way, the way this group is going, they're not going to all be together. They're not going to all be together. For these friendlies, there'll be certain guys pulling out. That's okay. That happens. But guess what? You've run out of time. So if. Unless the entire group is together and wins the Gold Cup, I'm worried. But, yes, I think Pochettino, when he says there's time, I think there's probably like another month, month and a half in terms of time. After that, there's no more competitive games. Simply put.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, we're going to. We'll go all over the place, but let's just start with. With Po and what he's learned. Right? So again, I'm going to use a dating analogy. If you're dating someone and they're crazy, you rather find out after the second date that they're crazy.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

You don't want to be three years in and go, oh, he's crazy, or she's crazy. Right. So I am. My guess is he's going back watching the games, watching individuals and some of the performances and some of the ways the effort, like the full effort wasn't there and going. I got to think about this one. Right? Because you know whose effort was there? Tim? The guy who nobody's heard of until three weeks ago. Diego Luna or in January. Like that guy cares. He cares. He was chasing down the goalkeeper at the end of the game. Like he cared. It meant something to him. It meant something to him more than just a normal soccer game. And there's lots of reasons why something can mean more to you. It doesn't have to be because you have this crazy, amazing American pride. Okay. Yes, they do. Whatever. Maybe it's, I need my next paycheck. I need my next contract. I don't. That's fine. No problem. Got, you know, guys, especially before us, and some of the guys during ours were making 80 grand a year, and they're like that $4,000 extra bonus to win this game. I need it. I got bills to pay. I need it. Guys. Now, they don't need that, okay? So the, the money motivation is out of the equation for these guys. It just needs to mean more to you. And I don't know how you find that, where you find that, but you better find it because it means more to Panama, it meant more to Canada, it means more to Mexico.

[Tim Howard]

It should never. I mean, here's the thing, right? So we agree on this. Tyler Adams was quoted after the game. And it's really interesting because sometimes it's. When you, when you read something that a player says or a manager says, you then have to dissect it. Tyler Adams said, I mean, listen, it's hard for me to judge. I think my mentality is a little bit different. I'd agree with that. I think we need to have every single person buy into exactly what we're doing and why we're trying to do it. But it's just the little things for me. Duels, tackles, leaving your mark on the field, not being naive in certain moments, being a little bit more clever. All the details of the game that I feel when I watch people play with their clubs. We do, right? So. And then, and then he finishes the quote and says. And then we come here. Sometimes I think we forget a little bit what the games are going to give us. So that's what he said, right? LD My issue with what he said is he's a little bit different. He was. No, no, no. But. But he was saying, and I agree with Tyler Adams, he's saying he is different. His mentality is different. He'll leave something on you. Right? So basically, he's talking about the players around him and he's saying, and he's saying, I'm a little bit different. But everybody, we need everybody to buy in, which means not everybody's buying in. And by the way, this is what I just said. This is what I just said. The duels, the tackles, leaving, leaving some. That's. That's a prerequisite. As soon as you cross the line, you should be like that. I'm that sort. I don't know if we're going to score today, but I'm win my challenges, I'm going to put somebody on the ground and they're going to know they're in a game that done right. The rest of it, we don't know. And so I just, you know, I think about, I think about is I like what he's saying, I'm wondering how much of that is translating into the dressing. Let me give you an example. When we were. And we. We played, I think we probably played a hundred times together. There were times where I would call someone to a chord. But. But people, players, brothers of mine who I love dearly, would get their finger this close to my face and say, yeah, you ain't performed today. You ain't done good enough. And because of the personality I had, I stood up, I bowed up. We got to grips with each other, right? But you know what happened? I went back out on the pitch, and I thought that shivered me to my core. I hated that feeling of being called out and letting somebody down, that it will never, ever happen again. But I needed that reminder. And players that I was around were big enough, bold enough, and strong enough to say that to me. And there's been times you've looked across the dress room at me and said things, and I thought that hurt because I respect this guy. But leaders. The problem is leaders can't be liked. If you want to be a leader and be liked, you're in the wrong profession, right? Because I had players. Yourself more nasty was Clint and Jermaine Jones and Michael Bradley. These are all people that I call friends and brothers. But you know what? I tell you something. They would prefer to win first and lose my friendship than to keep my friendship and lose a game. That's a matter of fact. I love Michael Bradley. He is eternally my brother. But I can tell you this. He'd give up dinners and wine with me to win. And that's the difference between being a leader and not being.

[Landon Donovan]

Let me follow up on that. Our producers found a great quote from Walker Zimmerman during the Olympics. He said this to Sam Borden. He believes the biggest thing his younger Olympic teammates will take away is appreciation for representing the usa. That gives me chills. Something he said has begun to slip with this US Men's player pool rock cander from the Veteran. His quote was, I think to some degree, we've gotten away from. From that and feel like just because we're whoever you are, that you just. You just can get called in. That stuff pisses me off. I think guys need to every time they put on the jersey. I don't care how talented you are, you want to play with pride. And I think we have the characters to do it, but we don't always do it, which is exactly what I said. That's so, you know, we can be the old men yelling at the clown. This guy Was in the locker room, Tim. He's in the locker room and he's saying it. And again, we're going all over the place. But I wanted to go back and watch these games and analyze it and get to a point where I'm like, you know, how is Mauricio Pochettino trying to get this team to play? What are they starting to look like? What things are they. And. And now I'm like, it doesn't matter what we do. If you don't get that first part right, you have zero chance of competing at a high. You'll win some games because you're more talented and you'll get through it. But at the highest level, when it really means something, these other teams, you cannot. You cannot get away with it. It's not sustainable. And I just. I. I wonder if in the Gold Cup, Tim, we're going to see some. Some interesting omissions where he just says, ain't good enough. You. You, Tim, you have to earn the right to get your next cap. You have to earn your right. Let me tell you a story. I went to. I was early in my career, we were playing a Gold cup, and Bruce. Bruce was our coach, and I was going to. I asked him if I could go. Come in late because I was going on a vacation trip to Tahiti. Okay? So I wasn't as fit. I wasn't. Whatever. But I came into camp. He plays me. I think we were playing Haiti. It was in. It was in Miami. I think it was at the Orange Bowl. We play in this game. And I was shocking. But at that point, I was doing well, and I just assumed it would be fine. You know what he did? He subbed me. I think it was the only time he ever subbed me on the national team. Subbed me after, like, 58 minutes. And he said, if you ever perform like that again, you ain't getting called in again. Don't ever do that again. And I was like, okay, I'm going to think about this next time. I ain't going on vacation next year. I ain't. You know, and some of these guys need that.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, look, you. You hit the nail on the head with the Walker Zimmerman thing. You. You and I are two old guys who have the number one soccer podcast in America. That's fine. But guess what? Walker Zimmerman was in the trenches. When we start talking about, like, hey, this is what I think, but I don't know what's happened on the inside. Walker Zimmerman just told us, not just a couple months ago. Told us what. What's happened on the inside now. He's not a part of really the setup anymore, but this is. These are the same guys who he was in the dressing room with. And so that was. That was a direct hit. He didn't have to say that, by the way. There was a whole bunch of other avenues he could have went with Sam Borden about the. About the young players.

[Landon Donovan]

Yep.

[Tim Howard]

But he took the opportunity to take a stand and leave a little bit of a marker on with these guys. And so, look, that obviously is. Is cause for concern. I think it needs to. I think it needs to happen soon. What I would say about the Gold cup is I would. I would even. I take your point. I would even go the other way. And here's why. I look at the lineups, and we'll get to the lineups of the Panama game and the Canada game. We're not good enough, Landon. We've never been good enough. And I don't see a time in the future where we will be good enough to not constantly play your best players. And you know what? When you need to give a. I hate using this like a throwaway cap or I need to see a guy to see if he can perform at this level. You do that after you've had a successful run of like six, seven games. Okay. Now this feels like a lesser opponent. We'll plop a few guys in, we'll chop and change, but they don't get that. Right. The best. You should have your best 11 available. Okay. Anthony Robinson as an example. Wasn't there. Sergino Dess. Not there. No problem. But Your best current 11 should be playing back to back to back to back games. Like the best 11. There shouldn't have been as many change. I'm questioning the manager. He might have other reasons he might have needed to see players. I'm simply saying we're not good enough to do that. We've got to figure like our. Our. Our goal cup should be our best 11, 13 players. Everybody else, go sit over there. I'll let you know when. When it's time for. Okay, we're up four nil. Here's five minutes. Like, we don't. We don't have any time. We don't. Like, we don't have any time. And I was worried about this going into the last World Cup. I remember saying our best players have not played together, whether that be through injury or the club. Club versus country. They haven't played. So you get into a World cup and your best Players haven't played together. This is an issue. This is an issue because I said once.

[Landon Donovan]

It's a huge issue.

[Tim Howard]

Once the Gold cup comes, there's no more measuring stick. There's no more opportunity to get the guys together and go, huh, I wonder how a group of our best players are going to perform in a tournament. Because normally you'd have Gold cup, then you'd have World cup qualifying. We don't have it. I'm like, it's a broken record. So if that doesn't happen, and I know you said about omissions and I get sending a message, I almost think it's too late to send a message. We don't have the time.

[Landon Donovan]

Right. Well, then, I mean, maybe that's. Those just aren't. Some of those guys aren't the guy then. I mean, you have to. As a coach, you have to trust your players. You have to trust that they are going to at least give you a 7 out of 10. And you know that every time they step on the field, right? Maybe they're crap on the ball, maybe they can't complete a pass, maybe that, whatever. But, you know, you're getting this effort. Maybe you have to be able to do that.

[Tim Howard]

Maybe. But I've said to you in the past, and I've been very open with this publicly in America, our best 13 players are our best 13 players. That's it. If they're not performing, if they don't care, if the crest doesn't mean any, fine, put somebody else in. But they're not up to standard. Now, when you go to Holland or you go to Spain or you go to Brazil and you go, oh, this guy's chucked it in. No problem.

[Landon Donovan]

Because I got a striker he won't play again. Yeah, I got.

[Tim Howard]

I got a striker at Liverpool who's banging goals and knocking on the door and fine, we don't have that. So, like our. I've said this all along, our best 13 players, that's it. There's a massive decline after you. After you get past that. There is. So, like, I, yeah, I guess you can send a message and you can play guys who care more, but you're going to lose something somewhere. And I just. Yeah, it worries me. It worries me.

[Landon Donovan]

I had a really good conversation this morning with someone I respect and I think is the most brilliant football mind in our country. And he said two things he said that really resonated with me. He said, like you say, pep Guardiola's ruined football, okay? So every player now, not every Player. Sorry. There are many players around the world who play in a system that's similar to what Pep does at Citi. The problem is they don't have the best players in the world. Correct. Okay? So they're trying to play in a certain way, and they're getting accustomed to playing in a certain way, but they're not good enough to do it. Okay? So if you take. Let's take the top five club teams and the top five national teams in the world, they can do it should they choose to. Then you have the other end of the spectrum, the Panamas, right? They're like, we ain't good enough to do that. So we're not going to try. We're going to be Panama. We're going to be in a 5, 4, 1. And I'll tell you what, if you try to come to the box and score, you're going to get your leg broken, okay? You score a goal, great. Your leg's going to be snapped. And we're going to do that, and we're going to do that really well. Then you get everybody else in the middle who thinks they're over here and they're the best, but they ain't good enough to do it. And we fall into that category, right? And so now, and this is not a slight on Greg Burhalter or Pochettino, whatever, it's just the way soccer is going, but we're not good enough to be that. Tim, you know, when we were at our very best, when we got to a quarterfinal in 02 and we sat and defended it, and we had a few guys who could go make plays, and we were great at it, and that's it. And so the identity piece in that way is very real. And that's true. And we need to determine, and I think yesterday it should have been determined, or three weeks, or this is who we are and this is who we're going to be. Because when you get against the good teams, the best, they just do it better than we do. The other thing he said, and this is so true, and we've talked about this before, there are. And I'd refer to them as captains, but there are not enough guys on our. On this current team who are captains for their clubs. And the way he said it, and this is so good, is there are not enough guys who are responsible for the result of their team.

[Tim Howard]

Well said.

[Landon Donovan]

Okay? So. And again, we can be the old guys, whatever, and back in our day and all this crap, but when we were on the field, there were Guys on the field, all over the field, who, if they didn't perform well, their club team probably lost.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, okay.

[Landon Donovan]

If you had a bad game at Everton, you probably lost. If Clint Dempsey didn't play well for New England or Fulham or whatever, not great. If I didn't play well for the Galaxy, we're going to lose. Michael Bradley didn't play well wherever he was, B's everywhere he went. Like, guys who were responsible for getting a result. And, you know, in a. In a weird way, Diego Luna, even though he's young, like, if he doesn't play well, RSL is not as good at Charlotte. Like, ajamong needs to play and play well and they're a better team. Right. But there's not a lot of guys who fall into that. So when. So when it's hard and it's dirty and it's nasty and whatever, most of our guys are kind of going, okay, where's. Where's the captain and where's the Dutch international? And where's the French international? Always carries us. We don't have a lot of that.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I know you're going to take us to break in a second, but look, let me just finish on this. You pointed out the person you spoke to today, the US Identity. There are so many coaches in this country who are a bunch of jokers who continue to tell me, yo, we play between lines, we connect. Yeah. You can have a profile of how you want to play tactically. You will never, never convince me that a US Team, first and foremost, has to be dominant and nasty and hungry. The football. Great. That can do that. Can be amazing. If we have the football and we don't have the nastiness as a country, when we step on the field, that will never. We'll never make it. That's our profile. People want to get away from that dude. Now, do you want to get away from that bunker in mentality? Yes, you do. But you can never get away from the physicality side of the game as a US Player because, as you mentioned, we fall into that middle ground where we think we're the best, but we're not quite.

[Landon Donovan]

All right. I should have done this at the beginning, but I just. I don't know. I'm emotional today. Sorry. Follow us on social media at Unfiltered Soccer. Subscribe to the show, please, on YouTube or Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, if you like what we're doing, maybe you hate what we have to say today, that's fine. If you like it, follow us, rate us. You can always email us. We've got a ton of questions over the last 24 hours. Feedbackunfiltered soccer.com all right, let's take a break. This is what we're doing all day, so if you don't like it, you can turn off. But this is what we're talking about. This is on our minds and this is what's important. So we will be right back on the other side, continuing to talk about the U.S. men's National Team failure in the CONCAF Nations League right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim. As always, presented by Volkswagen, Stick around.

[Tim Howard]

The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

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[Tim Howard]

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[Landon Donovan]

As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly powered by the people.

[Tim Howard]

Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting U.S. [e-mail] There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed that just isn't your team winning the championship. The weather being good on game day, your friends remembering who has the tickets. Some days you're just a goal scoring machine.

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[Tim Howard]

Okay, so we had to pause and I had to tell Landon, open the back door, go for a walk, calm down.

[Landon Donovan]

So angry. I'm like, it's just visceral. I don't try to figure out why I need like therapy.

[Tim Howard]

And I think, well, I do too. But it's not about soccer. I. Look, I think our fans, our listeners appreciate, appreciate the passion. I know they do. We're going to dive into a little bit more of the changes, the personnel, what we saw, what we thought, what we think should happen, you know, in the, in the future games, which are obviously vitally important being the Gold Cup. So let's kind of take a little bit of a deep dive into that.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. So the first game. So we went, if you remember, Tim, the episode pre. The. The preview episode.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Y.

[Landon Donovan]

The lineup we thought was going to be the lineup was the lineup minus. I think we had Anthony Robinson in. So Scally played left back in the first game and Moussa played right back against Panama. I'd said I was like fully intending to go rewatch the games, break it down analytically, think, you know, try to figure out what they're trying to accomplish. Da, da, da. But there were plays early in the game where it was like a ball high in the air, and I would see a Panamanian midfielder go sprinting towards the ball, jumping and like, literally just putting himself on the line to win a header. And our guys kind of backing out and kind of, you know, turtleneck and what. And I was like, oh, no. Like, because once you break the spirit and soul of a team like that, then your talent comes through.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, of course.

[Landon Donovan]

Right.

[Tim Howard]

That's right. It's a good point.

[Landon Donovan]

And, and, and, but you have to earn that. You've said it. Like, you have to earn that right to play. You have to earn the right to play. And with Panama, we never did and they were never threatened. The expected goals for us was like, it was less than 1. It was, it was abysmal. And it was just. There was never urgency to go make the play. It was like, oh, we'll make the play. The play will come. And even with the coaching staff, it was like, oh, in, in extra Time we'll put on Diego Luna and Gio Reina and it's like, no, but it doesn't happen that way, right? Like, the game can be over in a moment. And as you said earlier, there's no divine right to win a game. You have to go earn it.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. And. And look, I. When I, When I. When we break down these lineups, we'll talk goalkeeper in a second, right? But I break down these lineups and I'm not really so concerned about Scally and Musa. You know, Musa is a. Is a kind of a utility player, right, Which. Which I think hurts him a little bit because he could play as a fullback and in a pinch, Robinson and Des when healthy, lockdown on either side. So. Okay with that. Right. You know, I think Chris Richards is. Is our best center back and then you're. Then it's a plus one. Then who plays alongside him in the best games, right? For me, we're missing our strikers, you know, we're missing both of our strikers, which. Which by the way, at the best of times is still a weak spot for us. So we have to have Ricardo Pepe or Flo Baligan healthy and fit. We don't have that, you know, and ultimately, I think, I think tactically, again with that, with that jack of all trades, I think Tyler Adams and Weston McKinney have so many good facets to their game that sometimes it's too much. Here's what I'm saying. There's oftentimes with our group as an example, we were told internally as our group, and you'll probably remember this, we can't all go out there and give all of ourselves, because it's going to be too much, it's going to be too robust for the group. Right? They needed a little bit less from me, a little bit less from Jermaine Jones, a little bit less from Eula. Now, we're still going to give 100%, but. But we. It's all not going to fit in the box if. If we're all on a 10. Right?

[Landon Donovan]

Right.

[Tim Howard]

And so Weston can drive forward, we know Tyler can tackle and spring forward, and they like to get in the box. I genuinely think you get your best goalkeeper in your best back four, and you tell Tyler and Weston you're going to sit in a double six and you're going to protect. You're going to protect, right? Because then what that allows is it allow. And that's when you can use their physicality and their ball winning and their ability to pass between lines because Then that allows you to get your four best attacking players on the field. Right. Like in the moment, Weston is considered one of the best attacking players. But this goes back to my original point. We need him to be his best ball winning, energetic self. Do I think he can make a late run in the box if everything is settled behind him? Sure. But I would. I would like to see Weston and Tyler sit as a double six, which would then allow us to get our best four attacking players on the field. That gives Gioreno a spot on one side. That gives way a spot on the other. Kristen Pulisic, it gives him basically a license of Rome because he's got two dogs behind him, right. So he can vacate the middle of the park, he can make a run onto the wing. He can go forward with as a double striker, he can go help help the midfield. But he got two dogs behind him, right. And then ahead of him, you put your best striker, whether that's Ricardo Pepe or as we said, Flo Baligan. That makes me think, okay, that excites me. That makes me think we have it. But again, I need to see that lineup for 10 games in a row.

[Landon Donovan]

Consistently six games in a row.

[Tim Howard]

I mean, look, the goalkeeper is a big. A big talking point. It was a big talking point going into this set of games.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, we were both shocked, right, to see Matt Turner start.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I was shocked because I think the world of both Matt and Zach and I think they are very similar in terms of talent, but they're different from a talent standpoint. But they could both do a job for you. And the biggest issue, which no one can argue is that Matt hasn't been playing for his club now. Yeah, that's not. People will. People will. And they did this with me at moments when I wasn't playing. They're going to try and pick the bones out of and go, well, if he was playing, he would have saved this. And that's somewhat circumstantial. My thought is you touched on this earlier. If Zack Steffen is in really good form, which he is, and he's playing, and he had a brilliant game leading into this camp for Colorado. Man of the match, I think it was against San Jose or something, I can't remember. And Matt's not playing well. We know Matt is a really good goalkeeper. You don't. As Pochettino, you don't need to see if Matt can perform at this level. What you need to do, put Matt on the bench when he earns his spot. Right. And he's playing every week. Then you play for the national because there's no question on what that Matt Turner played for the national team. He's played in the World Cup. So you don't actually have to see if he can perform at that level. In fact, you reward the guy in Zach Stefan who's been playing and playing well until the competition heats up. Now look, I've been told that the goalkeeper Zach Stefan got sick. He was, he fell ill before the, the Canada game. Right. And so there was this idea, there's this notion that he wasn't playing against Canada because he fell ill, which is probably right. But the fact of the matter is, from what I'm hearing, there were the goalkeepers that went into camp. There was no discussion of what was going to happen on who was going to play which game.

[Landon Donovan]

And I, and I mean nobody, nobody had spoken to them.

[Tim Howard]

Nobody, whether that be goalkeeper coach or head coach. No, nobody had spoken to that. That's what I'm hearing. Because. And the reason that's weird is whether I was a senior established goalkeeper or I was one of the young kids, every time I go into camp, either a phone call the week before I came into camp or when I landed and we're in a training session, goalkeeper coach or manager would say, hey Tim, I'm thinking about playing in the second game. Or that was when I was younger. Or hey, we're thinking about, we're thinking about playing someone, someone else in the second game. To which by the way, when I knew there was a two game window and the manager was thinking about playing another goalkeeper, you know what I said to him? Oh no, God. From fit. I'm fit and ready. I want to play both games. I lobbied my case and you know, many times I ended up playing two games because you wanted to give, you wanted to give somebody else an opportunity to play it. To hell with them.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

So it's an interesting one.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. So look, so the illness doesn't explain the first game.

[Tim Howard]

Correct.

[Landon Donovan]

Right. Why, why Matt or whatever. Every coach has their.

[Tim Howard]

Yep, yep.

[Landon Donovan]

It's their prerogative to choose whoever.

[Tim Howard]

Totally.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm not even going to ask you because I know how you goalkeepers all protect yourself. There is zero doubt in my mind of a few things. One, Zach Stefan makes the save for Panama's goal right now. 0. Matt Turner when he's playing in Sharp. 0 doubt he makes that save. This is what I'll say about that. If I turn just inside the 18 at that angle and hit that shot and it went in the Goal. I would feel like I just robbed a bank.

[Tim Howard]

Okay, fair. Fair.

[Landon Donovan]

Great. And I'd celebrate like crazy, but I'd be like, jesus, I got away with that one.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Period. End of story. That ball should never, ever, ever go in the net at a Senior International for a top 20 team in the world. Zero ever. I love Matt Turner. This is not personal. I mean, I was going to say it's not his fault. It is his fault he's not playing, but he's got to be playing somewhere, and he makes that save, no problem. And I bet you if he looks in the mirror at night, he'll tell you the same.

[Tim Howard]

Sure.

[Landon Donovan]

Second thing is, you're trying to wind me up. I know.

[Tim Howard]

I never wind you up. How?

[Landon Donovan]

I don't care if you're sick. What do you mean? You're sick? You're sick, and you can't play a game as a goalkeeper. Now, maybe it wasn't his choice. Maybe they kept him away. Maybe they didn't let him play. Whatever it is, dude, you. You're standing in the goal for 90 minutes. You're doing some things. No, I mean, I'm being serious here. It's not like you're run eight miles. And by the way, and this is not me only, everybody I know played sick all the time. Robbie Keane played through things you can't even imagine. I watched Clint Dempsey the day before a game get his toenail pulled off with. No. No painkiller. No. He just sat there like. Like a man.

[Tim Howard]

I'm trying my best to not throw.

[Landon Donovan]

I know. And I saw him take his toenail up. And you know what he did the next day? He played and scored a goal. So don't tell me because you're sick. You can' like, this is ridiculous. So I don't know the circumstance. I'm. I'm. I'm giving it context. I'm just saying.

[Tim Howard]

Just pl.

[Landon Donovan]

Like, it's a national team, dude. Play the game.

[Tim Howard]

Well, here's the thing. I take your point.

[Landon Donovan]

You and I put him in the game. If you're the. If you really want to play, put them in. It's fine.

[Tim Howard]

You. You and I were talking about this either last night or early this morning, and I. You brought up the point. Because I'll give you the example. You talked about the Clinton example, and we all have them, but I'll give you personals. But maybe things have changed because of COVID You mentioned that to me, right? Maybe protocols within the team have changed. And. And the only reason that I take that on board is because there were multiple times, particularly in. In national. My national team career, because when I was home and I was. I was living in Manchester and playing Premier League, it was like I was home. Right. And so the manager.

[Landon Donovan]

Impacting anyway. Right?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. And so the. The manager would always be like, you know, David Moyes, our beloved manager, would be sick on like a Thursday. He'd send the doctor round and he'd say, doctor say, oh, gave Tim meds and, you know, he'll be able to play Saturday, but I can't train Friday and say, okay, stay home, but then come. Come to the match in the national team. You fly in, you get. You get sick, you get the flu, whatever. Stomach bug. I remember having conversations with the physio in our hotels. Landed, and I'd say, doc, I ain't well. I need you to call me an antibiotic. I need you to give me something. Right. And by the way, I need. I need. I need to be in my room for the next 30 hours, but I'm going to play. I just need to be by myself in my room for the next 30 hours. Then I'd speak to the manager with the physio and I'd say, gaffer, I'm good to go. I'm good to go, but I. I can't leave my room because I need rest, I need fluids. I need someone to stop it coming in or out or whatever the heck is going on with my body. But don't you worry, by game time, we'll have that part figured out. And, yeah, you go in and you play at not your 100% best self, but you drive yourself over the line. And again, it's not a reflection on Zach, Stefan. I have a feeling that that's probably the new way of. Yeah, of what? You know, Covid left and Covid, but in terms of the protocols and the way we treat the players and, yeah, like you said, you. You naturally will play through anything, wouldn't you?

[Landon Donovan]

You would have begged.

[Tim Howard]

Totally. I would have begged.

[Landon Donovan]

By the way, you know who begged last time to play was Diego Luna when he got his nose broken.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And he said, please, just please leave me in the game. Yeah, please leave me in.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, but that's why. That's why. I don't think it's a reflection on. On Zach. Stefan. I think it's a reflection on.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, I'm sure Zach wanted to play.

[Tim Howard]

Of course, protocols and. And. And whatever else is going on.

[Landon Donovan]

Or maybe it was an easy excuse. Maybe they didn't want to play them I don't know.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, yeah, maybe.

[Landon Donovan]

I don't know what the.

[Tim Howard]

I hope not.

[Landon Donovan]

Look, okay, so there's so many places to go. I want to talk about. What?

[Tim Howard]

Where do you want to take it?

[Landon Donovan]

Everywhere I want to. So we've talked about this problem, right, that, that we have identified. And I'm to the point now where I am secure that this is a problem and it's the passion and the pride to play for your national team. It doesn't. I'm careful with my words. I'm not saying guys don't care. Right. I'm using quotes. They care. It's a soccer game. It's their profession, whatever. But there is something more when you're just playing, going through the motions. And I did it plenty of times in my life with my club team, where it was a Wednesday and there's an empty stadium, and you're like, okay, but you're out there. It's 90 minutes. You compete, the adrenaline. But you're not like, I am willing to die for this.

[Tim Howard]

Okay?

[Landon Donovan]

Every time, 150 plus times I put on the national team jersey, I was willing to die for it. I was like, this is it. I am. I appreciate this opportunity. I ain't letting it go.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Never. Okay, so there is a problem there. Now I'm trying to think, and I did a lot of thinking the last 24 hours of what? How do you remedy the problem and what's the root of the problem? Okay. And in my opinion, I don't have any data on this. Okay. But there is. We've talked through some of it. Not a lot of leaders on their club teams, not guys who are responsible for the results. There's no question. Generationally, these guys just aren't as gritty and resilient and used to difficult times. Part of that. And we'll get. You know, I don't want to open too much of a Pandora's box, but is the way these kids are treated from the time they're eight years old and told how great they are and youth soccer, nobody tells them anything they need to hear.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Agree.

[Landon Donovan]

And that extends then, as. As professionals, to their friends, their family, their agents. Right. The people around them who need to pull them aside after this week and say, hey, that ain't good enough. And you know, you know, Rich Motskin, my agent, there were so many times, Tim, where he would. I would call him on the way home and he was at a game and he'd say, how do you think you played? And I'd Go. You know pretty well and go, no, you didn't. You're terrible. And I go, really? He goes, yeah, you were terrible. And. Because the player always thinks it's everyone else's fault and, you know, they were fine and whatever. So that is part of it, too. And I'm. I'm just calling these people out. And, you know, agents are a big part of it, too. Like, stop kissing your client's ass. Tell them what they need to hear sometimes. Tell them that it ain't good enough. Tell them they don't run the world. Tell them to stop doing stupid stuff off the field. Right. Like, they need to hear that. And it's all just. It's all just a part of this whole system that has created players that are not resilient, not tough, not willing to. To buckle down when it's really hard. And it's all part of it.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

I mean, it's not black and white. There's nuance everywhere, and there's lots of pieces to it. But I've just been trying to dissect what is going on.

[Tim Howard]

That.

[Landon Donovan]

That kind of effort is what comes out of these two times.

[Tim Howard]

You know, let me. Let me piggyback on two things you just said. So I agree with that. I also agree with Pochettino being a very good manager, being from Argentina and having nastiness in him. Oh, yeah, I've seen it in his coaching career as a player. He was. So I'm sitting here watching these two games and. And this wasn't these. Just these two games. We've seen other January camp was good, but we know. We know what the January camp is. And then, so you're looking at it, and I'm starting to wonder, like, is there going to be a moment where we see, like, who Pochettino is, like, that ruthlessness, that nastiness, you know, is he still in the. In the valuation period or evaluation period? Excuse me, like, because. Because so much of what you're saying doesn't feel like Mauricio Pochettino to me. I know what I've witnessed, what he is. I've covered him as a manager, and it's just kind of like, okay, when is that going to come out? Because this feels a little bit too laid back for what you're saying, right? You're saying, like, there's something missing here. I don't think that he's not seeing that. Like, that's what my soccer brain says. I know he's seeing it. This guy is clever. He's a very good Manager. He's been around, by the way. Bigger players, nastier players, players who down tools. He's been around all of it. Right. And so I'm just thinking, is there going to be a time and you mentioned it, you know, in terms of omissions, what's. What. How's he going to name the squad? What's he going to do in. In the Gold Cup? Like, those are big, big questions.

[Landon Donovan]

So he. Tim, he's. You're right. You're dead on. He's. It almost seems like he's just analyzing, you know, like when there's a big scuffle on the field and the referee like walks away and removes him or herself and just watches. Yeah, it looks like he's just going, okay, okay. And I'll tell you what. Sorry, I'm cutting in, but no good. He made a triple substitution against Canada. He made a triple substitution. You know who he brought off? Pulisic McKinney, Tyler Adams. And when it first happened, I was like, oh, he's probably had a conversation with their club teams and they have to get. And then I was like, wait a minute, it's a Sunday. They don't play again until at least next weekend. And if you don't have an FA cup game, you have even more time. And I'm like, oh, okay. Because if you're going to win a game, you're not taking those three off. If you need a goal to win a game, you're not taking them off. So. Yeah, continue. But I think there's. He's not stupid.

[Tim Howard]

The thing that struck me, and this is a big talking point for this segment, that triple substitution of Pulisic Way and Adams. I almost.

[Landon Donovan]

No, McKinney and Adams.

[Tim Howard]

Sorry, sorry. Pulisic, McKinney and Adams. I remember watching it thinking, I hear what the. Because the commentators could see what we couldn't see, right? They could see who's warming up, who's stripped and ready to come on. And I was like. I was like, ain't no way. Like, they must have one or two of these. Wrong, because those are out and out. We don't care. What if you've watched a team one time, those are the best three players we have in America, Right? And so I'm thinking, there's no way it's. And then I'm looking at the score. I think they were. I think they were down a goal or it was even.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, they were down.

[Tim Howard]

We were down. And I'm thinking, you're chasing the game. And our producer can correct me If I'm wrong, I think, what minute of the game was it?

[Landon Donovan]

Like 60, 65 or 70, right?

[Tim Howard]

So I'm like, there's a lot of game left by, by the way. I can't, like, I think of it, I always put myself in those shoes, and I'm like, if I was on the pitch and I saw your number come up, Clint Dempsey's number come up, and Michael Bradley's number come up in a game that we're chasing, I'd be like. I'd be like, nah, something's gone on here. Like, there's no way. And then, by the way, to. To the point of. Of this entire podcast, I wouldn't have even been able to focus on the game because I'd have been looking at who. Who does Clint Dempsey have a grip of? Who is Michael Bradley kicking on the sideline? Because that wouldn't have went over very well. You know what I mean? Like, I just thought that's an impossibility. And to your point, these guys don't play again anytime soon. The sub was in the 69th minute, and never mind when they play, by the way. This is the whole concept of playing for the crest. Who cares about your club? Like, Pochettino should be trying to win the game, which I know he was right. And that's why he made the substitution. But I'm looking at thinking this is the strangest substitution in a competitive game that I've seen in a long time. And what was the basis of it?

[Landon Donovan]

Bruce used to say. Bruce Rooney used to say to us, a coach shouldn't have to coach effort. Correct. And I was like, it's like, it's such a Bruce comment, but it's so true. Like, you shouldn't have to coach.

[Tim Howard]

That.

[Landon Donovan]

That should be easy. Can we talk real quick? Giovanni got called into camp.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

So that Mauricio and the staff could see him. I feel like I always pick on this kid, but he barely played, you know, I know he barely played over two. And Maurice Pochettino said he's not fit enough to play in the way we want to play. Which you had to know because he's not been playing games. Right. There has to be more going on, man, because you. At least you would have given him 45, 60, 90 minutes just to see what he's about. And there's so many coaches, Tim, now, that have not played him, everywhere he's been.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, look, let me say, I just.

[Landon Donovan]

Want more for this kid. I do. And I'm disappointed because he's so special.

[Tim Howard]

I Mean, look, the one thing again, I'll, I'll always. If you ever, if you ever have questions or comments, send them in. If you, if you ever, if you ever read something and you're like, I can't figure this out. I'm. I'm the figure it out guru. Let me tell you, because I can, I can read between lines. Just so you. Just so you know. And Landon said, we goalkeepers, we don't do much. That's true, we don't. But we can keep ourselves fit. Any other soccer player, Any other player, if you're fit, you are fit. What it takes to play in a position like you did, Landon, or anywhere else on the field, essentially, you have to be able to run between 10 and 11K. And a certain percentage of that needs to be high intensity sprints. That's not positional. That's every player. So when a manager says he's not fit to play this, you can pick 20 different tactical styles. The fitness level is the exact same. So you either are fit to run and to play and to jump and to kick, or you're not fit. So again, I don't even know what that means. What I'm saying. I'm just saying in general, Mauricio Pochettino, when he says that, just for our audience, a player is either fit or they're not fit. There is. It's a myth. It's a myth for someone to say he's not fit to play in our style.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

So there's that. But what I would say is, I don't quite know. Matt Turner's not playing right. And he got to start. I don't know of. I don't know of a professional player. Right. Cause you said he didn't play much. Our producers will tell us exactly how many minutes he played over the course of two games. But what I would say to you, what I would argue to you is, is he fit enough to play 2 times 90 minutes? If you want to argue. No, no, I'll accept that. I'm saying if you, if you're a professional football player and you have a contract as a professional.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

You are fit enough to it and you're not injured, you're fit enough to at least play 50, 60 minutes over the course of two games.

[Landon Donovan]

Minimum, minimum of one half. Minimum, bare minimum.

[Tim Howard]

So. So I think, you know, the selection disappoints me. Like GEO doesn't disappoint me. But I'm disappointed in the fact that he. If we're giving players opportunity to play and the prerequisite isn't, you have to be playing for your club to play for this national team. Then I'm disappointed that we didn't see him.

[Landon Donovan]

Me, too.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, so.

[Landon Donovan]

Me, too. Because otherwise, bring someone who you can put in and who can be effective. Because otherwise, I mean, look, let's just hope there's a bigger but.

[Tim Howard]

Gio, very much like his father, and he'll probably hate the comparisons he always gets compared to his father, very much like his father, has a nasty streak in him. And we saw that, and that's kind of what we've been talking about, you and I. This episode when he came on, right. And I spoke about it earlier. He's just. He's laid into one of those players on the sideline, got past him, took his knee off, and then started this confrontation, this kerfuffle of sorts. That's what we wanted to see.

[Landon Donovan]

But the problem. The problem is it was in the 90s.

[Tim Howard]

I know, I know.

[Landon Donovan]

We didn't want to waste three minutes of time.

[Tim Howard]

It's a massive problem. It's a massive.

[Landon Donovan]

What's the problem? But.

[Tim Howard]

But he. But. But, you know, this is.

[Landon Donovan]

But, yeah, fair enough.

[Tim Howard]

He's super talented. He played 21 minutes over the last two games, you know.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, just in the Canada.

[Tim Howard]

Just in the Canada game. So, like, he's got talent. He's got a nasty streak to him. What? Why is. I'm not sure why he's not playing.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, let's take a break. We have lots and lots and lots of comments, questions, feedback, and we will get to it in the AT&T fan connection on the other side, maybe won't even do anything but soccer just so we can get more questions. And you guys had a lot to say, so we'll be right back. Right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, as always, presented by our friends at Volkswagen. Stick around. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big Roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[Tim Howard]

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn.

[Landon Donovan]

You'Ll be able to reach people who.

[Tim Howard]

Do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be.

[Landon Donovan]

To be sergeant and Mr. Smith, you're gonna love this house.

[Tim Howard]

Bunk beds in a closet. There's no Field manual for finding the right home. But when you do, USAA homeowners insurance can help protect it the right way. Restrictions apply. Um, I think I just won my taxes. Yeah, I just switched to H and R Block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H and R Block, and bam. Information is automatically there so I don't have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch. Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game. Switching to H and R Block is easy.

[Landon Donovan]

Just drag and drop your last return.

[Tim Howard]

It's better with block. It's time for the Fan connection presented by AT&T. Every week, we invite you, the listener, to connect with us by submitting your questions. The best way to grow the game of soccer in the US Is is to keep asking questions and keep talking about the sport we all love. At, AT and T. Connecting changes everything. And on uslnt, our connections with you will help grow the game. It is time LD for the AT&T fan Connection, one of our favorite times of the week, because we get to talk a lot of stuff, nonsense or otherwise, and then our wonderful fans get to write into us comment questions and concerns, and we get to.

[Landon Donovan]

Boy, did they have a lot to say.

[Tim Howard]

Have at it. And you know, Jordan, welcome. Your favorite time of the week, too. What? What? What kind of heat you got? A little as Roma.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I had to. I couldn't stop myself. It's a third kit from, like, 99, 2000. I just like the.

[Tim Howard]

The Wolves. Yeah. Crazy.

[C]

One of the few ones I have with a name and number on the back.

[Tim Howard]

Who's on there?

[Landon Donovan]

Who's on it?

[Tim Howard]

Tuck T. Numero DH no other.

[Landon Donovan]

What a legend.

[Tim Howard]

All right, really, really quick. Michael Bradley was playing for Roma. I called him and I said, mike, can you get me a Tati jersey?

[Landon Donovan]

No, you didn't, bro. Bro.

[Tim Howard]

The next. The next camp, he comes in with a signed Torto jersey for no way. Yeah, yeah, way. Legend. Yeah. Anyway, keep going.

[Landon Donovan]

Busy, busy.

[C]

All right, as you mentioned, we've got quite a number of comments and questions for you guys. So let's. So let's dive into some of the things you've already talked about to see if we can expand on some of them a little bit. I know you guys talked about a tweet that Landon put out. Somebody commented and said, landon, how are you not allowed to go into a USMNC locker room and to tell them to their face? It would be great to see the past USM&T go and check on these guys.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, to be honest, one of my, I don't know if concerns is the right word, but I have been thinking about with, with Pochettino and his staff. There are no Americans. And this is not a xenophobic thing. There's just, you need to have context around the American player, the American system, mls. I think that's very, very, very valuable. There are, this is not a self promoting, but there are many of us who would love that opportunity to honestly to speak to them. Having Clint Dempsey walk in and be a part of your staff and talk to you after performance like that is I think infinitely probably as valuable or maybe more valuable than hearing from your head coach. We've talked a lot about how players hold players accountable more than coaches do. I think that would be really powerful. So I would certainly not hold back if I was in that, in that environment. But to that point, I think you can get ahead of that. Right. So you say it before the Panama game, guys, some these guys have played in some of these games, but not a lot of them and say this is what this game is going to look like. You can throw the soccer out the window for 20, 30 minutes and this is how you have to perform. This is how you have to compete. If you don't, we might lose today. If you do, we're going to win. And that's, you know, that's powerful.

[Tim Howard]

But do you not think that there's a flaw in the hiring process if as a US Soccer Federation, you pay this 5,6 million a year for Pochettino and okay, yeah, he can bring a staff, but you've got to be able at some point to mandate that, look, we have to have an American, not for the sake of having an American, but there has to be some sort of connectivity to.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, I would just say Tim too, it doesn't even have to be, well, should be American, doesn't have to be American, but somebody who understands what that environment in CONCACAF and all that is like. Yeah.

[C]

So we actually have a. Sorry, before you go on, we actually have another question from Mike, the email, who said my question is about having an American coaching the US Men's national team. After the Panama game, a lot of fans were questioning whether or not Pochettino is all in on the US Job. I know also, like just as an aside, there was a lot of conversation because I think he went on talksport and was talking about wanting someday to go back and coach in the Premier League. And so maybe where that is coming from a little Bit. But he just said, like Mike's asking, do you think it's important for the coach to have American skin in the game?

[Tim Howard]

I think, I think Pochettino's all in. You know it, you don't. It'd be, you know, it's nice if you get settled here and have roots. But, but I do think Pochettino is all in. Absolutely. And look, going back to having an American on, on staff or in, in the camp, not just a single camp, but in the camp, it has to be someone who is committed and dialed into the team because you have to be able to suffer day to day with the team. This concept. Like, by the way, these, these current players, as we were, they don't give a good goddamn about me walking into a dressroom and telling them what I think and pontificate. And in fact, most of them hate what I say on this podcast because nobody wants to. I didn't want to be criticized. I didn't like it.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, to your point, unless you have, unless you have skin in the game, right? Yeah, we have emotional skin in the game. But someone who is there on staff. I'm not saying walk in once in a while and go speak. Someone who is there on staff who understands what all these battles are like, I think is highly valuable.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And yes, Tim, to your point, that should absolutely be a mandate from U.S. soccer, that, look, you can bring your staff up, but here's this one man or woman who's been through this and they're going to be part of your stuff, too.

[Tim Howard]

I remember.

[Landon Donovan]

Here's five of them. You interview them and you choose one.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, right. It's a miss. I remember. I always remember because I, I remember like looking up to so many of these giant European players. But you remember when Oliver Beerhoff was part of the German setup where he.

[Landon Donovan]

Was like the manager.

[Tim Howard]

He was like a go between. He's like, yeah, it was a manager.

[Landon Donovan]

General manager or something.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. And I think we tried that, didn't we? With, with. Was it with Brian McBride or it wasn't Ernie Stewart, but we tried it with some. But for whatever reason that's gone out of the game. But like to your point, on the point, the question, like, there has to be somebody in U.S. soccer on the general manager level the day to day. That's. And maybe that's, you know, maybe that's Oguchi on Ye. Wu. You know, I know there's, there's some, there's some people there, but the.

[Landon Donovan]

No, but it's in, it has to be in Camp in the best skin in the game. It has to be in the dressing room, like, has context because we're talking about. But we don't have. We don't know if Zach Stefan really was sick or not. We're just. We're guessing, right? So you need to be there and be like, hey, Mauricio, you know, we know Zach sick. Put him in his room for 30 hours. He's going to be fine. Play him. You know what I mean?

[C]

So, like, yeah, we have a question from someone else called Zach via email and he said he was. This speaks, I think, to kind of the overall feeling of this episode. Zach said the U.S. men's National Team has seemed to lack fight and pride in some of the recent international windows. Do you think this issue falls more on the manager or the players? Are there any players you would like to see called into camp over the next year who might be able to help remedy this and bring some intensity back to the team?

[Landon Donovan]

Right now it falls on the players.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

If this continues, then it falls on the manager. So the manager and the staff. Pochettino and his staff now have decisions to make, important decisions for the Gold Cup. And it doesn't have to be in the roster selection, but in who's playing in that first game. You're damn right. And it better be guys who are really committed and really willing to go to war. And I think he's given them grace and he's given them grace opportunities, but now he's got to say, okay, I need to know the guys who are willing to do it. And I. And I got to see it.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it always falls on the players. And here's why I'm talking specifically with your country. You don't get to play for your country very often. You get to play for your country 10 days, 10 days out of every year. Okay. When? If you're talking about the mundane of playing in the Premier League and then, and then a Cup game in the midweek and then another game and then you're like, oh, it's dark and it's dreary. It rains every day. Yeah, maybe, maybe the manager every now and again you need a swift kick up the backside. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I always believe a player should be self motivated. Certainly the leadership core should motivate the group. But when you play for your country, it has nothing to do with the manager. You have to envision a scenario of holy heck. We don't know where the manager is, but we're kicking off in two hours. You go to that game without your manager doesn't change anything.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, you're right.

[Tim Howard]

It doesn't change.

[Landon Donovan]

How wouldn't it change the damn thing?

[Tim Howard]

It wouldn't change your mentality or it has nothing to do. Your manager can't save you when you. When you walk across the lines. Only the only 11 guys that are on the field can give that effort like that. It's. It's amazing to me that we are talking about effort and that not just us, because apparently fans of the show and the fans of the US Men's national team are also talking about. So. So people are seeing it and that's a crime. It really is.

[C]

I'm also curious, since you're talking about managers and what a manager does for the game. What do you think it did for the Canadian players to see Jesse Marsh get red carded?

[Tim Howard]

Jesse's got a real buy in. Jesse's got a real buy in from that group. Jesse's a good manager. He is one of the most standup human beings that I've ever met. And he. In that group, you know, whatever. Whatever they're cooking over there, they look at the US and we are their number one target. And they play like it, they perform like it. Even Jesse with, you know, Jesse's very calculated. I'm not surprised. I'm sure he didn't want to be sent off, but he knows how to motivate his team and fair play. Hats off to Jesse Marshall and the Canadian team and not. Not just for this game, the way they've been going over the last year or so.

[C]

We had a comment on Instagram where someone mentioned about the order of the games for the semifinals. They said, what other federation has their team play as the opening act of their biggest rival?

[Landon Donovan]

So true.

[Tim Howard]

Who asked that question?

[C]

We didn't capture what the person. Sorry. To whoever the person. The person was.

[Tim Howard]

Incredible question. Incredible question.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

I mean, think about it could be because. Because Landon was quick to correct and say, like, it's not on usr. It's on Concave. And I agree. Can we for a second, like, stop it? Like, we're 12 months away almost from a World Cup. We're showcasing our nation.

[Landon Donovan]

Totally.

[Tim Howard]

This is. This is the CONCACAF Nations League in one of the biggest cities in America. You watch the game, like, how. How can FIFA or CONCACAF or US or whomever, how can they live with this? How can they be okay with this? Like, because by the way, we're showcasing. What America can do is what we do best. No one puts on live sporting events like we do until it comes to the nation's league. Like, it's crazy. It's a great question. I'm sure they'll. I'm sure they'll post. And I know Sofi, by the way. I've been there for Super Bowl. It's huge. I get it. It's freaking ginormous. And I'm sure they'll post numbers that say there was. I don't know, one of our producers can get us a number. I'm sure it'll be. There was 35,000 people there.

[Landon Donovan]

No, there wasn't.

[C]

I guess they have the same counter as the New England.

[Tim Howard]

Don't start. The Revs fans. The Rev fans, we're all trying to.

[Landon Donovan]

Give them a week off. I think every week we got to bring that in somehow to the show. Yeah, it was. It's a CONCACAF deal. So it's. But like I said earlier, have conversations and say, guys, we got. Or. Or don't play it at Sofi. Fine. Play it somewhere else then.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, but you. But again, okay, Landon, you said that you a. Soccer. We let all your Soccer took a little bit, but I'm also saying. Hang on. It's a CONCACAF thing. If it's in Jamaica, it's like, oh, it's in Jamaica.

[C]

That's.

[Tim Howard]

That's your fault. This is a.

[Landon Donovan]

This is U.S. soccer in America. No, no, no, I said that. I said, if you're U.S. soccer, you gotta have the. And by the way, we're not playing at 3:30. We're playing at 7:30. That's for sure. By the way, they. I. I do know, too, you had to buy one ticket for both games. So if 100 was the lowest ticket price, that was supposedly for both games, but it was. You know, it was trying to get people to buy for both games, but clearly they didn't buy for the American game.

[Tim Howard]

So.

[C]

Okay, one last question, guys. This one was a long one, but I feel like I can pretty much get to the point quickly. This is from Eric via email. Could you guys give your unfiltered thoughts. I will answer for them. Yes, they can. On what the Gold cup really means at this point.

[Tim Howard]

Well, yeah. Okay, I'll go first. So. So as I'm. As I'm thinking about this episode, this could change, but I don't think it will. I'm going to be. I think I got really excited about the Nations League. I did. I'm going to be far more calculated and pessimistic is not the right word. But I think this group. This group needs to show Everyone more. And so I think I'm going to be slightly more calculated as we build up to the Gold cup and the preview of what that looks like because yeah, I think it's a must win. A must win. Because I again, we can. It's. It's the same thing. I continue to say this group needs to be together in a tournament format where it really, really matters, playing every three or four days and they need to win. This is their last opportunity to do that before they go into the World cup, which is all the things I just said. So for me, I think it's incredibly important. Incredibly important. I think you need to see, you need to see six wins. I think you need to see a couple of them where they dig in. You need to see three or four wins that are emphatic and they need to win.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm going to hope for what I was hoping for against Canada, which was terrible performance against Panama. And I even in our group text, I said, I, I don't know what's going to happen, but I think it's going to be a great game because Canada lost to Mexico. They hate our guts. Our guys just got beat by Panama. So our guys are going to be like livid and cannot wait to get on the field and kick someone. And then they didn't do, they didn't do any of the. Canada held up their part of the bargain. We didn't. I hope that we get into camp and the coaching staff has learned a lot from it and the tone is set very quickly. And more than that, I hope the players now leading into the camp, when they get into the pre camp against Turkey and whoever else they play, I hope they sit together and say, guys, that was shit. And like we, we owe our country more than that. Yeah, we do. If we're going to wear this jersey, it's got to be more. Forget about the coaches like, Christian, you're a leader. Tyler, you're a leader. Weston, you're a leader. Tim Rehm, if you're there, Matt Turner, this ain't good enough, guys. And let's make it right right here.

[Tim Howard]

But here's why I like you, because you forgot that George W. Bush said there's an old saying in Texas, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice. Can't fool me again.

[Landon Donovan]

Can't fool me again.

[Tim Howard]

Well, we've been fooled. We've been fooled because here's why. Landon. I agree the Panama game should have been a slap in the face. Ain't gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen against Canada. Guess what? It happened. So now what you're saying is, okay, this group needs to take a hard look in the mirror and come out fighting. Well, guess what? I remember a couple guys getting sent off, not having accountability. Manager gets sacked. Remember? You remember all the post game interviews when Greg Borhole got sacked? It's on. It's accountability.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, you're right.

[Tim Howard]

We ain't seen that.

[Landon Donovan]

What have we seen?

[Tim Howard]

What have we seen from this group that tells you they're gonna. They're gonna hold each other to a court? We haven't. No, we haven't now. We haven't. So this is why I'm saying.

[Landon Donovan]

That's why I said I hope.

[Tim Howard]

I know. I know. I know you did.

[Landon Donovan]

I know what would have happened. They're Everton teams. I know that.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[C]

But this is not a soccer podcast unless somebody says it's the hope that kills you. So be real careful with that.

[Landon Donovan]

These poor people are just turning into the national team.

[Tim Howard]

Rock bottom, rock bot.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm gonna be optimistic. Tim.

[Tim Howard]

You weren't today, but I'll hold you to.

[Landon Donovan]

Dude, I'm so. Why do I care so much? Golf? Why don't I just golf?

[Tim Howard]

You do both. You care and you golf a lot.

[Landon Donovan]

I love golfing. I do.

[C]

I do think though, it's like I, as a fan, I take a lot of comfort in that because like, one of the things that makes me really crazy and I think we got a comment like this somewhere on our socials is someone saying, I support the U.S. men's National Team whether they win or lo. And my response to that is why are you making it sound like criticizing the team after a lot two losses is not supporting the team, like totally. We are upset because we can't. Right? Exactly. Exactly.

[Landon Donovan]

Otherwise you'd just be like, haha, you.

[Tim Howard]

Lost and gone 100%.

[C]

Right. All right, thanks, guys.

[Landon Donovan]

Thanks, Junior. All right, Tim. That was. I wish I could say it was fun. It was interesting. So let's hope next time we're dissecting U.S. soccer, U.S. men's national team games that it's much more pleasant. Yeah. I do enjoy, however, hanging out with you, Tim, and with all you guys listening. So thank you. We appreciate all your support. Remember, Please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast and follow us across all social media for a lot more bonus content.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. So much love to our, our fans and our listeners. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, VW and our fan connection sponsor AT&T. Have an amazing week. Look forward to getting back with you next Tuesday with another edition of Unfiltered Soccer.