Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard

Episode: Don Garber on Messi, MLS Calendar Changes, Retirement and More

Date: December 16, 2025
Host(s): Landon Donovan, Tim Howard
Guest: Don Garber (MLS Commissioner)

Episode Overview

This lively and candid episode features MLS Commissioner Don Garber reflecting on his 26-year tenure, MLS’s evolution, and navigating the league through seismic changes. Landon Donovan and Tim Howard guide a deep-dive discussion on Messi's impact, the controversial MLS calendar shift, American player development, the specter of promotion/relegation, MLS’s media future, and Don's personal timeline for stepping down. Listeners are treated to Garber’s forthright insights, often in his own words, giving a rare behind-the-scenes look at league strategy, growth struggles, and unfiltered views on American soccer’s future.

Key Discussion Topics & Insights

1. MLS Then and Now: Reflections on Growth

[03:12 – 04:35]

• Don Garber didn't anticipate MLS’s massive growth:
  • “Never in my wildest dreams did I think we’d be where we are today, really. … The economics weren’t good. We had MLS owning and controlling teams… The whole thing just seemed crazy.” – Garber [03:12]
• Survival was not always assured; reflects on league’s early uncertainty and a long journey to global relevance.

2. Messi and the Mega-Star Effect

[05:27 – 07:57]

• Messi’s influence compared to Beckham's; described as transcendent and league-changing:
  • “He loves being in the league, he loves winning trophies … There’s a unicorn aspect to it.” – Garber [05:27]
  • The arrival of global icons (Messi, Müller, Son) fulfills original MLS ambitions.
• Garber praises Messi’s engagement beyond commercial value, noting how his presence reframes MLS within the global game.
• Unique league legacy built on players like Donovan and Howard, with Garber expressing pride in player-driven growth.

3. Villains, Fans, and the Power of Narrative

[09:24 – 10:51]

• Both Beckham and Messi, while initially celebrated, have become ‘villains’ outside their home cities—a natural evolution:
  • “You’ve got to have villains. … Having lovers and haters like you have in the rest of sports.” – Garber [09:39]
• This polarity is crucial for MLS as it matures as a sports entertainment product.

4. Comparing Messi and Beckham’s Impact

[11:04 – 13:13]

• Both iconic, but in different ways – Beckham set the stage, Messi elevates the league at its strongest.
• Forward-looking: Hints at potential for “the next Messi” in MLS (e.g., Mbappé, Vinícius Jr.), enabled by improving player compensation.
• “We’re not the Premier League, but we’re getting closer all the time.” – Garber [13:21]

5. Stadiums, Expansion, and Relocation Threats

[16:28 – 20:18]

• Stadium quality is a non-negotiable for MLS; Vancouver’s situation cited as precarious:
  • “We don't have a good stadium situation. It just has to get fixed.” – Garber [18:53]
• Relocation is a last resort but remains on the table; political complexities with local/provincial governments discussed.
• Expansion markets: Phoenix, Las Vegas, Sacramento, Detroit are in the mix.
• “Expansion has driven a lot of the energy and success of the league.” – Garber [20:37]

6. Roster Rules, Spending, and Sustainability

[24:13 – 28:52]

• Reassessing roster structure and spending in post-calendar-shift landscape:
  • “The single biggest project…is figuring out what our future is from a roster structure perspective and from a spending perspective.” – Garber [24:13]
• Commits to balancing financial progress with league stability; acknowledges value in simplifying roster rules for fans.
• Apple partnership, media deal, and technological innovation cited as enablers for future growth.

7. The American Player Dilemma

[29:57 – 35:56]

• Concern over declining American representation in MLS; Garber grapples with league/national team development tension.
  • “I’m a big fan of what Cindy and J.T. Batson have done. They have turned that federation into a powerhouse … Signing Mauricio, who’s the biggest MLS fan I think we’ve ever had, believes in our league more than I think any coach has.” – Garber [33:20]
• Dismisses strict minimum-minutes-for-Americans rules tried elsewhere (e.g., Mexico) as ineffective.
• Hints at possible incentives/subsidies for clubs developing and signing American players (“Generation Adidas 2.0” idea discussed).

8. Promotion and Relegation: Myths and Realities

[39:26 – 47:57]

• Garber is blunt: No owners advocate for relegation, given US sport’s unique capital structures:
  • “Not one. … If somebody is investing, that’s because they see an economic return. They’re not philanthropists, they’re industrialists and visionaries.” – Garber [40:36]
• Acknowledges romance and competitive appeal of pro/rel but insists league economics cannot support it.
• Keeps the door open for “maybe in the future,” but describes the league as a high-risk, still-maturing startup.

9. The Calendar Shift: Challenges and Opportunities

[48:08 – 51:23]

• Calendar move described as the hardest but most essential structural change:
  • “The most difficult thing that we…took on. … Northern owners struggled. … But long term, they believe it’ll be right.” – Garber [48:32]
• Aligns with global transfer markets, maximizes MLS programming, but requires significant adaptation by cold-weather clubs.

10. The Apple TV Deal and Media Future

[53:47 – 59:42]

• Explains rationale for the Apple deal and changes in media strategy:
  • “Media is the driver, the DNA, of pro sports. … We have a dramatically smaller percentage of our revenue coming to our teams from the league than any other league that is a major league.” – Garber [54:53]
• Move to streaming and removal of subscriptions reflects direct audience feedback and Apple partnership flexibility.
• Expresses optimism about growing reach and technological innovation.

11. World Cup 2026: Capitalizing on the Momentum

[60:04 – 62:27]

• MLS aims to seize post-World Cup bump, leveraging viewing parties, campaigns, and partnership data.
• Highlights research showing 10–15% league attendance bumps in post-World Cup host leagues.

12. Don Garber’s Tenure & Future Succession

[62:55 – 68:31]

• Garber is self-reflective about being more candid and comfortable, hints at eventual departure:
  • “I think I’m more comfortable now than I was back in the day. … 26 years in a 68-year life is a long shift, as we say.” – Garber [63:38]
• Casts MLS as undergoing a “next, most important phase,” acknowledges lack of formal succession planning (“not good, Disney wouldn’t allow that”), and targets contract end in 2027 as a possible exit.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early MLS:

  • “The guy who was overseeing that would go into a different room and make trades with himself. I mean, the whole thing just seemed crazy.” – Garber [03:12]

• On Messi and MLS’s Relevance:

  • “We had the best player to ever play the game in our league while we were on a trajectory to try to make MLS more relevant here and around the world.” – Garber [05:27]

• On Villains in Soccer:

  • “You’ve got to have villains. Now, I prefer that they’re villains, not for things they do wrong … but, you know, lovers and haters like you have in the rest of sports.” – Garber [09:39]

• On MLS vs. Pro/Rel:

  • “There’s no way I’m raising money to build a stadium in Indianapolis [...] If Indianapolis has a bad four years and they’re playing now in another league. … It’s just not happening from a realistic perspective.” – Garber [46:35]

• On Calendar Change:

  • “It was not something we could do if you want to be a top league in the world. So owners had courage.” – Garber [50:04]

• On Media and Apple TV:

  • “We looked at the subscription ratings, and then when we had games on Apple TV plus, then the ratings went up. So. Doesn’t take a brain surgeon. Well, why don’t we move from the subscription to Apple TV and just figure out a way to make that work economically?” – Garber [57:58]

• On Career Reflection:

  • “26 years in a 68-year life is a long shift, as we say. It’s a long contract. … I feel like I know the game more.” – Garber [63:38]

Timestamps of Major Segments

• Early MLS Reflections: [03:12 – 04:35]
• Messi & Global Star Power: [05:27 – 07:57]
• Villains and Fan Culture: [09:24 – 10:51]
• Beckham vs. Messi’s Impact: [11:04 – 13:13]
• Stadiums and Expansion: [16:28 – 20:18]
• Roster, Spending & Stability: [24:13 – 28:52]
• American Player Pipeline: [29:57 – 35:56]
• Promotion/Relegation Debate: [39:26 – 47:57]
• MLS Calendar Change: [48:08 – 51:23]
• Apple TV & Media Strategy: [53:47 – 59:42]
• World Cup 2026 & League Bump: [60:04 – 62:27]
• Garber on His Future: [62:55 – 68:31]

Episode Tone and Character

• The conversation flows candidly and warmly, blending humor, nostalgia, and sharp business insight.
• Garber is at his most unguarded, adopting a tone of legacy, challenge, and persistent optimism.
• Donovan and Howard push Garber with both reverence and unfiltered critique, representing player and fan perspectives.

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode is essential listening for both die-hard and casual American soccer fans.
• It demystifies complex league decisions, clarifies misconceptions (on spending, pro/rel, the Apple deal), and provides rare candor from a top sports executive.
• Offers hope, pragmatism, and a nuanced look at both the hardships and heady possibilities facing MLS and soccer in North America.

End of Summary.