Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Episode: Don Garber on Messi, MLS Calendar Changes, Retirement and More
Date: December 16, 2025
Host(s): Landon Donovan, Tim Howard
Guest: Don Garber (MLS Commissioner)
Episode Overview
This lively and candid episode features MLS Commissioner Don Garber reflecting on his 26-year tenure, MLS’s evolution, and navigating the league through seismic changes. Landon Donovan and Tim Howard guide a deep-dive discussion on Messi's impact, the controversial MLS calendar shift, American player development, the specter of promotion/relegation, MLS’s media future, and Don's personal timeline for stepping down. Listeners are treated to Garber’s forthright insights, often in his own words, giving a rare behind-the-scenes look at league strategy, growth struggles, and unfiltered views on American soccer’s future.
Key Discussion Topics & Insights
1. MLS Then and Now: Reflections on Growth
[03:12 – 04:35]
- Don Garber didn't anticipate MLS’s massive growth:
- “Never in my wildest dreams did I think we’d be where we are today, really. … The economics weren’t good. We had MLS owning and controlling teams… The whole thing just seemed crazy.” – Garber [03:12]
- Survival was not always assured; reflects on league’s early uncertainty and a long journey to global relevance.
2. Messi and the Mega-Star Effect
[05:27 – 07:57]
- Messi’s influence compared to Beckham's; described as transcendent and league-changing:
- “He loves being in the league, he loves winning trophies … There’s a unicorn aspect to it.” – Garber [05:27]
- The arrival of global icons (Messi, Müller, Son) fulfills original MLS ambitions.
- Garber praises Messi’s engagement beyond commercial value, noting how his presence reframes MLS within the global game.
- Unique league legacy built on players like Donovan and Howard, with Garber expressing pride in player-driven growth.
3. Villains, Fans, and the Power of Narrative
[09:24 – 10:51]
- Both Beckham and Messi, while initially celebrated, have become ‘villains’ outside their home cities—a natural evolution:
- “You’ve got to have villains. … Having lovers and haters like you have in the rest of sports.” – Garber [09:39]
- This polarity is crucial for MLS as it matures as a sports entertainment product.
4. Comparing Messi and Beckham’s Impact
[11:04 – 13:13]
- Both iconic, but in different ways – Beckham set the stage, Messi elevates the league at its strongest.
- Forward-looking: Hints at potential for “the next Messi” in MLS (e.g., Mbappé, Vinícius Jr.), enabled by improving player compensation.
- “We’re not the Premier League, but we’re getting closer all the time.” – Garber [13:21]
5. Stadiums, Expansion, and Relocation Threats
[16:28 – 20:18]
- Stadium quality is a non-negotiable for MLS; Vancouver’s situation cited as precarious:
- “We don't have a good stadium situation. It just has to get fixed.” – Garber [18:53]
- Relocation is a last resort but remains on the table; political complexities with local/provincial governments discussed.
- Expansion markets: Phoenix, Las Vegas, Sacramento, Detroit are in the mix.
- “Expansion has driven a lot of the energy and success of the league.” – Garber [20:37]
6. Roster Rules, Spending, and Sustainability
[24:13 – 28:52]
- Reassessing roster structure and spending in post-calendar-shift landscape:
- “The single biggest project…is figuring out what our future is from a roster structure perspective and from a spending perspective.” – Garber [24:13]
- Commits to balancing financial progress with league stability; acknowledges value in simplifying roster rules for fans.
- Apple partnership, media deal, and technological innovation cited as enablers for future growth.
7. The American Player Dilemma
[29:57 – 35:56]
- Concern over declining American representation in MLS; Garber grapples with league/national team development tension.
- “I’m a big fan of what Cindy and J.T. Batson have done. They have turned that federation into a powerhouse … Signing Mauricio, who’s the biggest MLS fan I think we’ve ever had, believes in our league more than I think any coach has.” – Garber [33:20]
- Dismisses strict minimum-minutes-for-Americans rules tried elsewhere (e.g., Mexico) as ineffective.
- Hints at possible incentives/subsidies for clubs developing and signing American players (“Generation Adidas 2.0” idea discussed).
8. Promotion and Relegation: Myths and Realities
[39:26 – 47:57]
- Garber is blunt: No owners advocate for relegation, given US sport’s unique capital structures:
- “Not one. … If somebody is investing, that’s because they see an economic return. They’re not philanthropists, they’re industrialists and visionaries.” – Garber [40:36]
- Acknowledges romance and competitive appeal of pro/rel but insists league economics cannot support it.
- Keeps the door open for “maybe in the future,” but describes the league as a high-risk, still-maturing startup.
9. The Calendar Shift: Challenges and Opportunities
[48:08 – 51:23]
- Calendar move described as the hardest but most essential structural change:
- “The most difficult thing that we…took on. … Northern owners struggled. … But long term, they believe it’ll be right.” – Garber [48:32]
- Aligns with global transfer markets, maximizes MLS programming, but requires significant adaptation by cold-weather clubs.
10. The Apple TV Deal and Media Future
[53:47 – 59:42]
- Explains rationale for the Apple deal and changes in media strategy:
- “Media is the driver, the DNA, of pro sports. … We have a dramatically smaller percentage of our revenue coming to our teams from the league than any other league that is a major league.” – Garber [54:53]
- Move to streaming and removal of subscriptions reflects direct audience feedback and Apple partnership flexibility.
- Expresses optimism about growing reach and technological innovation.
11. World Cup 2026: Capitalizing on the Momentum
[60:04 – 62:27]
- MLS aims to seize post-World Cup bump, leveraging viewing parties, campaigns, and partnership data.
- Highlights research showing 10–15% league attendance bumps in post-World Cup host leagues.
12. Don Garber’s Tenure & Future Succession
[62:55 – 68:31]
- Garber is self-reflective about being more candid and comfortable, hints at eventual departure:
- “I think I’m more comfortable now than I was back in the day. … 26 years in a 68-year life is a long shift, as we say.” – Garber [63:38]
- Casts MLS as undergoing a “next, most important phase,” acknowledges lack of formal succession planning (“not good, Disney wouldn’t allow that”), and targets contract end in 2027 as a possible exit.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Early MLS:
- “The guy who was overseeing that would go into a different room and make trades with himself. I mean, the whole thing just seemed crazy.” – Garber [03:12]
-
On Messi and MLS’s Relevance:
- “We had the best player to ever play the game in our league while we were on a trajectory to try to make MLS more relevant here and around the world.” – Garber [05:27]
-
On Villains in Soccer:
- “You’ve got to have villains. Now, I prefer that they’re villains, not for things they do wrong … but, you know, lovers and haters like you have in the rest of sports.” – Garber [09:39]
-
On MLS vs. Pro/Rel:
- “There’s no way I’m raising money to build a stadium in Indianapolis [...] If Indianapolis has a bad four years and they’re playing now in another league. … It’s just not happening from a realistic perspective.” – Garber [46:35]
-
On Calendar Change:
- “It was not something we could do if you want to be a top league in the world. So owners had courage.” – Garber [50:04]
-
On Media and Apple TV:
- “We looked at the subscription ratings, and then when we had games on Apple TV plus, then the ratings went up. So. Doesn’t take a brain surgeon. Well, why don’t we move from the subscription to Apple TV and just figure out a way to make that work economically?” – Garber [57:58]
-
On Career Reflection:
- “26 years in a 68-year life is a long shift, as we say. It’s a long contract. … I feel like I know the game more.” – Garber [63:38]
Timestamps of Major Segments
- Early MLS Reflections: [03:12 – 04:35]
- Messi & Global Star Power: [05:27 – 07:57]
- Villains and Fan Culture: [09:24 – 10:51]
- Beckham vs. Messi’s Impact: [11:04 – 13:13]
- Stadiums and Expansion: [16:28 – 20:18]
- Roster, Spending & Stability: [24:13 – 28:52]
- American Player Pipeline: [29:57 – 35:56]
- Promotion/Relegation Debate: [39:26 – 47:57]
- MLS Calendar Change: [48:08 – 51:23]
- Apple TV & Media Strategy: [53:47 – 59:42]
- World Cup 2026 & League Bump: [60:04 – 62:27]
- Garber on His Future: [62:55 – 68:31]
Episode Tone and Character
- The conversation flows candidly and warmly, blending humor, nostalgia, and sharp business insight.
- Garber is at his most unguarded, adopting a tone of legacy, challenge, and persistent optimism.
- Donovan and Howard push Garber with both reverence and unfiltered critique, representing player and fan perspectives.
Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In
- This episode is essential listening for both die-hard and casual American soccer fans.
- It demystifies complex league decisions, clarifies misconceptions (on spending, pro/rel, the Apple deal), and provides rare candor from a top sports executive.
- Offers hope, pragmatism, and a nuanced look at both the hardships and heady possibilities facing MLS and soccer in North America.
End of Summary.
