← Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
LA Galaxy Wins 6th MLS Cup, Pulisic Injured, and Chelsea's EPL Chase
01:21:47
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- [00:00]
Landon Donovan
He's the best player in the league. That doesn't default you into winning the Landon Donovan MVP Award.
- [00:05]
Tim Howard
Until I do something to get canceled on the show. Then I'll be the Tim Howard MVP award.
- [00:09]
Stu Holden
No. No chance. Welcome, everyone, to Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard, presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S. soccer for the past five years. LD I see your VW swag going strong in the back. I'm glad.
- [00:34]
Tim Howard
My mug, they sent me a shirt to me. I will wear it at some point. Also have a jersey when it's national team week. I will. I see your mug in the corner there. I'm going to get it its own Instagram account.
- [00:44]
Stu Holden
Listen, I want to wear my jersey on National Team week as well. Proudly, by the way, because that's all I. That's all I get now is just to be a fan. How are you all good.
- [00:54]
Tim Howard
Good. Man, what a weekend. We'll get into it in LA. Saw all my old buddies. Junino, Omar Gonzalez, Mike McGee, AJ de la Garza, Rob.
- [01:05]
Stu Holden
I couldn't take it. I couldn't take it.
- [01:06]
Tim Howard
I know it probably makes sense.
- [01:08]
Stu Holden
I was watching the game and then. And then the love fest came on after and I was just like, oh, my God, here we go, Galaxy again. But it was good to see you.
- [01:16]
Tim Howard
Oh, it was amazing. All the staff, all it was. It was like. It was one of those moments in life where you just. I just enjoyed it. Like I was just sitting there enjoying it the whole time.
- [01:25]
Stu Holden
So proper football club, man.
- [01:27]
Tim Howard
It was amazing. Don't forget. Follow us, guys. Social media. Unfiltered soccer. Subscribe on YouTube. Make sure you follow on Apple podcast, Spotify. If you love what we're doing, leave a message. It helps other people find us. You can also email us at feedback at Unfiltered Soccer. So what do we got today, Timmy? Something special.
- [01:44]
Stu Holden
We got something special. For the first time on the Unfiltered Soccer podcast, we have our first guest. And it is my go. It's my honor to introduce Bolton legend, Houston Dynamo legend, U.S. men's National Team World cup member, lead soccer analyst at Fox Sports Soccer dad. And all around, a truly amazing friend and person, Stu Holden.
- [02:07]
Tim Howard
Stu.
- [02:07]
Stu Holden
Welcome in, buddy.
- [02:09]
Landon Donovan
Yes. Honored to make my debut, boys in the podcast. You know, I heard you talking about your sponsors Volkswagen, but Timmy, is that a Louis Vuitton soccer ball up there? Are you trying to.
- [02:18]
Stu Holden
It is.
- [02:18]
Landon Donovan
And we have a little Louie. I mean, that would be on Brand for you, bro.
- [02:21]
Stu Holden
It would be. I appreciate the shout because I don't have that sponsorship yet, but we're working on it.
- [02:26]
Landon Donovan
I would have thought you did by the amount of bags you have.
- [02:29]
Stu Holden
Let's go steamrolling in my guy. How you been, bro? Everything good?
- [02:34]
Landon Donovan
I'm good, man. You know, I was at. I was at Dignity Health Sports park for the Galaxy win on Saturday. So that was. It was fun to see the Galaxy back and it was a great buzz in that building, but otherwise, man, you know, I'm being soccer dad. I know. You boys are both soccer dads as well. I'm running around soccer practice to dance to gymnastics to like. This was a nice break. I actually, by being on this podcast today, I get to skip school runs. So if we could film for like two hours, that would be great.
- [03:01]
Stu Holden
Weekly guest.
- [03:03]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, weekly guest, 7:00am thanks. Sorry, Kara.
- [03:07]
Tim Howard
You can do a daily show.
- [03:09]
Landon Donovan
Landon, you done gloating? If you had like, you know, 48 hours.
- [03:11]
Tim Howard
Actually, I brought.
- [03:12]
Landon Donovan
I wanted.
- [03:13]
Tim Howard
I wanted to show you guys something, just because you guys wouldn't really know. I mean, so I got my ring. I'm going to wear it. Just. I'm just going to.
- [03:20]
Landon Donovan
Okay, well, I'm going to go grab my two if you give me a second.
- [03:23]
Tim Howard
Well, I don't have enough fingers for mine, pal, but.
- [03:26]
Landon Donovan
Oh, wow. Yeah, that's fair.
- [03:28]
Stu Holden
I mean, you can share, Elaine. I don't have any, clearly, so, you know, we'll just pass them along.
- [03:34]
Landon Donovan
Hey, Tim, I was also just wondering, like, are Landon and like, Ricky Poods. Are they like the same human at this point? I mean, they're wearing each other's shirts. Ricky comes out for the parade, he's got Landon's shirt on. Landon came out with the. You know, the cup with Ricky's shirt. I was like, it's gross.
- [03:50]
Stu Holden
It's gross. I said it. I said it's gross. It's absolutely gross.
- [03:52]
Landon Donovan
I get it. Yeah, we get it.
- [03:54]
Stu Holden
It's jealousy.
- [03:55]
Tim Howard
We just talked about the game. All right, jump in, Jump in. Jealousy comes in all forms, guys.
- [04:00]
Landon Donovan
I don't know what you expected here, Landon. I don't know what you expected having me on.
- [04:04]
Tim Howard
I know. All right, so you called the game. I want to. Let's just dig into the. The actual game. Tim said last week it was. It was great. It was a great quote. He said finals are often disappointing. Like, semifinals are often way better than finals. Cuz finals can be cagey. Et ceter. Just from you. We didn't hear the. I didn't Hear the broadcast, Tim. Heard the broadcast. I was in the stadium. So just what was your take on the actual game and how it played out?
- [04:30]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, I actually thought the first half was a really good game. You know, we had the two goals from the Galaxy, I think in a neutral. Well, not a neutral venue. Once MLS got away from the neutral venue, it really was to incentivize teams in the regular season. And so you get to host cup and it's a huge advantage. I thought the crowd was fantastic. As we said just jokingly a minute ago, the Galaxy were back. But in order to truly be back, they had to win that game. And so I think there was a bit of pressure for la. I think the fans were a little antsy as well about, you know, knowing that they needed to win the final. So having that early goal in the 9th minute, what a goal it was. I wasn't really sure how the Galaxy would look without Ricky Pooge. And a big final where I knew New York were going to defend. They played with five in the back, but Brugman and Delgado and Cereal I thought were fantastic. The three midfielders and that was. That was kind of the unknown. You KN Paints was going to get chances. You knew Gabriel Peck was. Was going to be dangerous on the right. And then Yovalic has been just a total stud up front. 20 goals on the season and 21st. And I just love how he told us in an interview, we interviewed him post game 2019 and he was saying, I am the future of the Galaxy. He knew if he got that opportunity he was going to score goals. And so I just thought the Galaxy got on top of him early. New York Rebel looked a little shell shocked and then second half, they kind of came back into it. But then I was impressed that the Galaxy had to show another side of their soccer and they just want to. They want to just beat you 5, 4, as opposed to 2 nil and shut the game down. But they did really kind of shut it down. And Greg made some good defensive subs and they were deserving winners, I thought, on the balance of the full game.
- [06:09]
Stu Holden
Yeah, it was interesting. I was watching it and it's just thought like I couldn't to my comment last week, LD finals are cagey because basically you have. Each team has one hand on the trophy. So you're like, we're afraid to lose this. And that's how teams play. It's just natural. And I just remember thinking the second half was so chaotic, I couldn't. I literally couldn't believe it. I Think. I think both sets of teams, like you get into these games and oftentimes say like, it's easy to say, like, control tempo. Sometimes you get into like this back and forth, like basketball match and you can't stop it. Like it's just the ball gets lumped, they're on top of second balls. You try and play it, it gets nicked and it so chaotic that I was like, I was utterly thrilled at the environment that it was. I love the fact that it was in LA and look off the field. I heard all of the post game speeches. I have so much respect for the Galaxy organization and you've been a part of it for forever. They are the benchmark in mls and the way that they didn't rest on past history. Things went sour over the last couple years and for me it would have been easy to say like, yeah, but we're the Galaxy, it's fine. Like they, they, they took it personally what LAFC had built. They took it personally that they weren't good enough. And they, and they decided to get back to their standards and raise it. And they did it in a very direct, intentional way. And I just thought, wow, I was blown away by that and really impressive and happy for Greg Manning.
- [07:42]
Tim Howard
I was. So, two things. One, just on the field, I was shocked and I guess I shouldn't have been, but I was expecting to see the Galaxy I've seen all season. And like the, it was like the whatever six minute ball goes back to McCarthy. He's got zero pressure on him and he just smashed the ball up the field. And I'm like, oh, they're not messing around today. So it was, it was interesting. Early on they played like they were way more direct, way more vertical and then picked up a few second balls and all of a sudden they were 3v3 at New York's back line. And you're like, whoa, what is New York doing?
- [08:14]
Stu Holden
And.
- [08:15]
Tim Howard
But it was, I thought Vanny handled it perfectly by the way. That guy has been through so much crap over the last three or four years. Job on the line consistently, everyone calling for him to be gone and he just persevered. I was so happy for him. After the game I saw him and you know, like with coaches, they don't even celebrate. They're not even that. He was just like, oh, thank God we won. You know, like he couldn't even celebrate. The players are dancing around, but Stu, you know that feeling like he's, he just, you could see in his eyes, he's like, thank God you Know, we.
- [08:45]
Landon Donovan
We, as we do on the broadcast, you meet with the coaches and players the day before. And I asked him, I said, when you took this job in 2021, did you ever doubt that you could get back here with the Galaxy? You know, and he'd done it with Toronto and he came in and he was going to be the guy that was going to flip this team and this franchise around. And man, you, you referenced it, Landon, that I, we. We called many of Greg Vanny's games over the last couple of years, and I just saw a guy sometime look exhausted and he's getting it from every angle and his big stars get injured. You know, Chicharito tears, his ACL and yada yad. Like, everything that could have gone wrong for him I think went wrong, but it also goes hand in hand. And I'm interested in your thoughts on this. Landon is. We also met with Will Co, and, you know, I think he deserves a ton of credit because the fans walked out and, you know, they demanded change and they felt what was in the front office at that point and the way the club was going was inadequate and it was in the wrong direction and they demanded change, they got changed. But you also know when it's, when it's a coach, the coach is also only as good as his players, oftentimes on the field. And I think Greg, we all know Greg Vanny is a very good coach, but clearly that wasn't manifesting on the field. And winning Cups, all of a sudden you bring in a good gm, sign the right players, all the pieces come together and he's able to win. So I just think, like, for the Galaxy too, Tim, you talked about it like they're used to. It was Beckham, Donovan, Keane, Ibrahimovic, you know, like Chicharito, it was always kind of the big stars, I would argue. I mean, Ricky Pooch, he played at Barcelona, but he wasn't like the big star. I think the Galaxy have changed their ethos, but yet have still found a different way to be successful. And in today's mls, I'm curious what both of you guys feel about this. Like, I don't know what's more important to have the stars and to have like, in a city like LA and try to stand out a little bit, or is winning championships clearly going to be more effective for the Galaxy brand? I think winning championships is what. Yeah, if you can do it both.
- [10:46]
Tim Howard
Ideally, but you have to win. And Tim said last week and I never thought of it this way, and he's getting his Houston Dynamo owners are going to be spending a lot of more money after this. He said getting a big national team star, US national team star, and a big Mexican national team star and playing together is, he thinks is the way forward. And I thought that was really good. But if you think back to, like, Stu, your successful Houston teams, you guys, well, first of all, you didn't have, like, big, big stars, but you had all these guys who genuinely cared about the club, like, genuinely cared about the club and Houston and doing right by Houston and wanted to succeed for that city. And Ricky hasn't been here long, but that's why I know you guys are giving me crap for it, but, like, I wanted to honor that. I can see in the way he plays, in the way he cares about the club, that it's genuine. And it was devastating for him not to play in the final. I spoke to his dad after the game. His dad was, like, beside himself with joy, even though his son didn't play. Like, they love the club and probably growing up in that Barcelona environment, they get that. They understand what that's like. And so Greg brought that back. The players brought it back. But then, to your point, Stu, like Nelson, Yoshida Garces, who, by the way, was absolutely the best player on the field.
- [12:02]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, he was amazing.
- [12:03]
Tim Howard
Incredible. And so just what they were able to do defensively, bringing Markey, Delgado a few years ago, like, they were just surreal. They were much more stable and they still gave up, you know, lots of chances and some big chances because of the way they play. McCarthy and goal. So Wilkins and Greg just built a team that was finally capable of actually winning. It wasn't just all attacking and they won games five, four and six, three and all that. But, yeah, on Saturday, it just showed that they could do it in a variety of ways.
- [12:31]
Stu Holden
Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting part about it is, is we've. We're all of a similar generation and we've seen different iterations of mls and what we have to do now is we have to respect the American soccer fan. There's no. There's no team in MLS that wants to be crap but have this amazing dp. No one wants that anymore. That used to be mls, right? It used to be. Don't really care if we win. Bring the star from Barcelona, Bayern Munich, wherever, and we'll clamor around this one player even though we stink. Fans don't want that anymore. Fans would much rather have no household names and win than one or two massive stars to go see every now and again. And lose to Greg Vanny's, you know, again, I can't give him enough flowers. Because here's the thing, Landon, you talked about him being under so much pressure. Do you know how it's difficult to win a championship? It's nearly impossible to be the guy who's won championships and come into an organization and be the one who's supposed to be the savior. That's nearly impossible. It's nearly impossible. And the fact that he was able to weather that storm, I just. Even after the game, he's a very humble guy, in my opinion. And even after the game, I was thinking, I would love to hear him say, yeah, he didn't do it. He was very humble. He took it in stride.
- [13:45]
Tim Howard
You like me now?
- [13:46]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [13:47]
Landon Donovan
The last part of that conversation with him, Timmy, I didn't finish or close the loop on it. When I asked him the question, he said, I don't want to sound arrogant, but I knew we'd be back here. And, you know, I guess it's one thing to say it now, it's easier to say it once you're in the final. But look, I mean, all three of us are involved in club ownership in some different capacity, and the reality is to try to recruit those types of guys that you're talking about, Landon, with Ricky Pooch and loving the city. MLS has gone through these iterations as you're talking about Tim, but also in a period, I would say, over the last, I don't know, five, six years, really starting with Atlanta United's kind of growth and explosion in South America, where they would get these younger, you know, Argentine, South American guys, 19, 20, 21, hey, we will bring you to MLS. We'll develop you, we'll give you a platform, you know, and then we're going to sell you and we're going to make money on you. You're going to get to do this. So then mls and really the problem that's happened, Atlanta, is that model really worked, and then it didn't work. And then all these guys were expecting that, and it was just a stop. They weren't investing in the club and in the city and in the league and saying, I'm here now. Look, Ricky Pooch is getting paid a lot of money. So I think that helps, and I think that's part of it. Like, you have to pay these guys to not to want to think, like, I gotta go somewhere else after this. And there's always gonna be those guys. Like, Gabriel Peck is probably not gonna be an LA Galaxy lifer. Like, he's gonna go to Europe. He's a young Brazilian guy. He's had a great season. He's probably thinking about the next stage, but that's the challenge. I mean, and I know you're dealing with that in Houston, Tim. It's like, you know, how do we complement, like, a really solid core group of American players and guys that get it and a coach that gets it, and then add these pieces and fit this puzzle together to have success on the field. But, like, the signs are there in Houston. Like, it's been a much better, you know, trajectory than it's been in the past. And it sounds so simple. Hire good people, hire good coach, Sign. Sign good players. I mean, there you go, there's your blueprint.
- [15:50]
Tim Howard
But everyone gets it wrong still. Everyone.
- [15:52]
Stu Holden
The chemistry is hard, the puzzle is very difficult, but the.
- [15:55]
Landon Donovan
It's.
- [15:55]
Stu Holden
When you get it right, you do realize how special it is. And we saw that. We saw that in LA this weekend.
- [16:00]
Landon Donovan
And I want to, like Landon, like, mls, you know, it gives you the tools. The Galaxy, this is a John Strong stat. I mean, it's the last three MLS cup champions all missed the playoffs the year before. I mean, that, like, oh, wow, that's. That's pretty exciting to me. That gives you the tools to change it over.
- [16:16]
Tim Howard
Yeah, that used to be standard in mls, but what it shows you, I mean, we all make fun of the crazy rules in MLS and whatever, but what Don Garber has always done is he came from the NFL, and the NFL's number one thing is parity. Right? So any in any given. When do they start the league? August. Every NFL team believes this is the year. And they do in baseball. You know, the Pittsburgh Pirates don't go. This is our year.
- [16:43]
Stu Holden
Right.
- [16:43]
Tim Howard
Because the Yankees and we'll get to the Mets and Juan Soto, like, they're spending more in the Dodgers. You have no chance. Right? But in the NFL. And so Garber always wanted to have parity and mls, you, you know, some teams spend more, obviously, but Real Salt Lake was second or third lowest spending team in the league this year, and they finished, you know, near the top of the West. So there's parity and there's. There's opportunity. Last thing just to tie a bow on. On the Galaxy. It's pretty interesting. And I want to get you guys quick thoughts on this. They. If you guys remember last year, fans were calling for Chris Klein to be out right in the middle of the year. They were boycotting games. And if you just think about that versus a year ago. I wonder from a fan standpoint how people now view that. And you know, there's got to be a little bit of like, look what we did, right? We got him out. Will Coons came in, everything changed. Tom Braun is now the president. And now we're back to winning. And, you know, it's just an interesting dynamic. And you guys saw this in Europe more than I did. But how much power in those situations fans have and is that coming now to America?
- [17:52]
Stu Holden
Yeah, I mean, I think it is. I'm a little torn on it because I am a fan of. You know, there's sometimes where I'm a fan and sometimes I'm an owner and sometimes I'm an analyst. But, you know, there is power in that. And we've seen it for the good, right? We saw it for the good when the European Super League was trying to form and fans were like, that ain't happening over our dead bodies. And they've single handedly, like, stopped it almost. And so we see that for the good. Look, sometimes it gets a little bit nasty. But what I would say is, and I'm tilting this conversation to the positive, what I would say is, again, I started mls, you guys started an MLS when there was nobody there. They didn't care. So I'd much rather have to navigate a fan base that is passionate and cares than one that just doesn't turn up and could care less about our team.
- [18:42]
Landon Donovan
So that's from my perception, pressure and accountability are good things to have, and I think it holds the organization accountable. And then it then forces you as ownership or front office to make a decision and to filter out the noise, but understand, like, what is real. And I think part of that is having to listen to your customer, which is the fan and the fan, they're your most loyal customer that you're going to get. They invest in everything that you do. And so you would be ridiculous not to listen to them. And they have an opinion and they should. They're in it more than anybody else. And so I love that the Galaxy fans did that. It's nothing new. And as you said, Landon, in other parts of the world where they'll, you know, turn up in hundreds of thousands and throw rocks and, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff and you don't want to see it to get to that level. But I think it was important clearly that the Galaxy fans did that. They made their voices heard. There was change in the front office. And you know what, that change should have come for many years and maybe that pressure and accountability didn't exist or I'm not sure why those changes weren't made previously. I'm sure when they're looking at this now saying, man, we're MLS cup champs and we should have done this earlier, but you know, it's. The Galaxy are in a good place. I said this on the broadcast that MLS needs the Galaxy to be what they are. They're the winningest franchise in the league's history. Them versus lafc and kind of, you know, being almost second fiddle for the last five, six years since LAFC has just ran rampant. Like that's going to be fun now if both teams are good. And you know what? Galaxy need lafc, LAFC need the Galaxy and the league need both of these LA teams. So I'm, I'm, I'm excited.
- [20:18]
Stu Holden
Definitely.
- [20:19]
Tim Howard
Me too. Did you see the stew? The reports? Want to get your opinion on MLS league attendance. Yeah, I believe they were second in the world in attendance.
- [20:28]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [20:29]
Tim Howard
And a lot of people like, you know, we get into this a lot on this show. A lot of people like to crap on MLS and how it's not great. Da da da da. I argue that the in game experience in an MLS stadium is almost second to none in the world. The Premier League is still probably the gold standard, maybe the Bundesliga. But when you go to an ML, I mean being there Saturday, the entertainment value. If I knew nothing about soccer, how could you not love being there?
- [20:58]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [20:58]
Tim Howard
And I know it's a final, but how could you not? And so Stu, you're there every, you know, every weekend. Every few weekends you're in this stadium. Like, do you agree with that? I mean, you've played everywhere, you've been everywhere. But that's my perception.
- [21:11]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, look, it's three dads here. The best way to quantify this is my wife and daughter were at the game on Saturday. My wife texted me after the game, she goes, can I watch the whole game? It's amazing, right? An eight year old, an eight year old watched a 90 minute soccer game. I mean, that speaks volumes. Yeah, look, it's an interesting conversation because MLS is at times struggling in the tv, you know, landscape in the United States versus NFL and college football and like NBA and these, these are behemoths, you know. I mean like the NFL is a juggernaut when it comes to TV ratings and MLS have long trying to like poke their way through and take some market share away from even what you do every week, Tim, at the Premier League. I know it's on at different times. But like, you know, the numbers you guys do consistently versus like how does MLS become that? I'm talking on a national level, regionally. I mean MLS is crushing it. You think about the fans, guys. I was joking with somebody before MLS Cup. My first MLS assist was in Arrowhead Stadium versus the KC Wiz in front of 5,000 people.
- [22:22]
Stu Holden
And like that's generous.
- [22:23]
Tim Howard
5,000?
- [22:23]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [22:24]
Landon Donovan
Might have been my parents that traveled and were like celebrating that moment and I could hear them and knew exactly what seat they were in. You know, we've played in old college football stadium. I played on a baseball park in Kansas City. Like it's crazy to think where that has come where now, you know, Don Garber should tout this. Like the attendance being second in the world, being where they are right now, the amount of soccer specific stadiums, like the in game product. I absolutely agree with you. I think MLS have really figured that out and they've really catered and developed these deep bases with supporters in their cities and that's very important. The challenge is going to be now how do you go from like regionally being so strong and relevant in your market to now making it a nationally broadcast TV product. So it actually pairs back, Tim, to a conversation we were just having about like how do you balance these stars and your product on the field and trying to win but yet we all know on TV like stars sell. And when IBRA was playing for the Galaxy, people wanted to watch that weren't really soccer fans or Galaxy fans, but they wanted to see the main event. Yeah, people will always want to see Messi. And I just think that's going to be kind of the continued challenge and evolution of like still do you have some super clubs that you're like go spend money and spend a ton of money and get the big stars and then everybody else try to do it different ways. But there's no doubt like the attendance has been awesome. The in game product is, is there for everybody to see.
- [23:53]
Stu Holden
Yeah, I mean I think to piggyback off that, it's one of those when you look at and we keep talking about over the next 24 months, which is now 18 months essentially and what, what we've built in this country from a soccer standpoint, from sponsorships, television, nwsl, mls. I mean there it. The landscape couldn't be, couldn't be brighter and the people that want to go into their pockets and be a part of soccer and that starts with mls, but they're also have an eye on the World cup and nwsl. And so it's pretty. You know, some of the franchise numbers for even NWSL clubs now are through the roof. And it's like you could have never thought that 10 years ago. So, like, where soccer is right now is healthy. I do agree with you. I think we need some really dominant teams in mls. I'm one who. Look, parody's good. I also love the fact that there's going to be villains and heroes and you're going to chase the villains at the top. Um, I do. I think big, big players at certain clubs are good. I think just solid organizations all around who aren't built around big stars are also good. So I think the balance is. Is starting to get evened out.
- [25:05]
Tim Howard
All right, well, since you're not taking the lead on this, Tim, I'm going to uncomfortably take the lead.
- [25:09]
Stu Holden
Correct, Correct.
- [25:10]
Tim Howard
Tell you, being quiet on purpose. I'll get to. So Leo Messi was named the mvp.
- [25:17]
Stu Holden
Which mvp? The Lance. Lionel Messi was this year's recipient of the Landon Donovan MLS MVP award. We'll get to that part in a second. But Stu, when you look at his numbers, they were ridiculous. 20 goals and 10 assists in a regular season. This is how the top five looked in the voting. Messi, Kuchar, Hernandez, Evander, Ben Teke and Suarez. The problem is for some people is Messi didn't play a lot of games. So go.
- [25:49]
Landon Donovan
I want your take. You seem very passionate about this.
- [25:53]
Stu Holden
I'm cool. Like, I'm good. Like, if you can, if you can score the goals and the goal involvements that he had and play like, I think it was 19 games or something. Yeah, you're valuable to me. You're the most valuable to me.
- [26:07]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. So I voted for Lionel Messi as mvp. And I'm sure I'm going to get shredded after this.
- [26:14]
Stu Holden
That's what we do on this show.
- [26:17]
Landon Donovan
But I did, I used my media vote and voted for Lionel Messi. Because I personally feel. Now, it depends on how you want to define most valuable player or Landon Donovan most valuable player. Because really, like, I had this debate with John Strong about this as well. He's saying, well, the most valuable player to me is that if you took that player out of the team, that team would not be nearly as good. And I get that. And Messi, in this case, Miami, without Messi, they still were pretty good for a large chunk of the year. Now, it does help that they have Suarez and Alba and Busquets and like all these studs. But the reason I voted for Messi is because Miami were the Best team in the league in the regular season. They set a record for the Supporters shield. I feel that the most valuable player in the league should come from the best team in the league. And Messi, when he was on the field, was undoubtedly the best player in the league. His stats were insane. The goals, the assists. I mean, he was on pace at the beginning of the season to absolutely shatter every single record. And then he picks up the injury in the Copa America and had to miss some time. But he's the best player in the league, guys. I mean, he's the best player in the world. He's the best player to have ever played soccer. That doesn't default you into winning the Landon Donovan MVP award, but it also, when you're scoring and doing what you've done on the field, he's the best player. You can't argue that.
- [27:40]
Stu Holden
I agree.
- [27:40]
Landon Donovan
Hernandez is phenomenal player, but the crew, you know, they didn't have as good of a year this year. They go out in the first round of the playoffs. Like the playoffs, it doesn't count in this award. But, yeah, I'm okay with it.
- [27:50]
Stu Holden
Yeah, we agree on that. Landon, you don't get a vote on.
- [27:53]
Tim Howard
This, but I'm just sitting this one out.
- [27:54]
Stu Holden
But what you can do. And this is not a piss take. Although every time I start something by saying, this is not a piss take, people think it is, but it's not. Like, because Stu and I, who we think, we both think we had decent careers, there is nothing named after us. How does that come about? Is that a phone call? Seriously, is that a phone call from the MLS that says we'd like to do this? Or, like, walk us through that process?
- [28:15]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I'm trying to remember the year. I don't remember the exact year. It was, I don't know, five or six or seven years ago. I got a. Well, first it went through Rich, my agent, and they said. He said, don Garber would like to speak to you about something. And I said, oh, crap, what did I do this time?
- [28:33]
Stu Holden
So, never a good thing.
- [28:34]
Tim Howard
So Donna gave me a call. And you just. Just straight up, you just said, we'd like to name the MVP award after you. And first of all, what the hell are you going to say to that? Like, I don't. I didn't even have a response.
- [28:48]
Stu Holden
Did you ask me, like, an annual fee or something?
- [28:50]
Tim Howard
So I get anything for it? No, but look, I'm. I love this league. I get. I get a lot of crap for sticking up for this league. And I spent majority of my career in this league, it's not perfect. Like, there's a lot of. There's a lot of faults and a lot of errors and a lot of mistakes that we've all made trying to grow soccer in this country. But I am very proud of my career here, and I'm proud that I got to be a part of the league. So when that happened, it was. I mean, you can imagine the feeling when someone says they want to do that. Right. And that's an historical, I guess, accomplishment, we'll say, that will last forever. Right. So that's not going until I do something to get canceled on the show, and then I'll be the Tim Howard MVP award.
- [29:40]
Stu Holden
No chance. But listen, listen, as many people will say, we're in awe of you. And again, to be immortalized that way while you're still here. Jesus, that's always after you're gone kind of thing.
- [29:52]
Tim Howard
Maybe they know something.
- [29:54]
Stu Holden
No, I hope not. No, stick around, kid. We're going to move this along to one of our favorite segments because this is what so many of our listeners want to hear us. LNT on US MNT is where we talk about the US Men's national team players, teams that they're on in Europe and here in the US and never mind that Milan lost. More importantly, I think for all of us is that Christian Pulisic took an injury, and that is not a great thing. It sounds as if he's going to be out for an extended period of time. Ld maybe like January. Is it a torrent? Has it been confirmed? Torn calf.
- [30:29]
Tim Howard
They said torn calf. Right.
- [30:31]
Stu Holden
Yeah. That's tough. That's really tough. So not great from. From the standpoint, you know, hopefully he can get himself fit because, you know, he has a little bit of time until the spring Internationals, but obviously that's not ever something you want to see.
- [30:47]
Tim Howard
Yes. Do your thought. Just. Just curious. Yeah. Your thoughts on where he's at, guys?
- [30:52]
Landon Donovan
I mean, remember the uproar when Pochettino and A.C. milan, like, requested ballistic to come back for that second game? And I would have loved to see Christian play against Mexico. And I didn't think it set the greatest precedent, but I also understood these guys these days are being asked to play more minutes, more games, travel more miles than in the history of soccer. And there's a reason that, like sports scientists and, you know, these medical teams have a really hard job now to try to understand, like, how can we get a guy rest before they hit that? They're in the red zone right now. Can we push him a little more? Do we need them for the Champions League? Do we need him for that international game? And look, Christian had a period of a couple of years ago when he was at Chelsea, where it was like he was in and out of the team. He'd get in the team, he was injured, and then his, like, his rhythm, his flow, everything was interrupted. And so my fear is that, like, we get back to that again. I believe that's in Christian's past. He's played so many more games now. His body's adapted more. He's more grown up. He's grown into his body, but it is a little bit concerning. And you hope that they handle this in the right way because he was in such great form. His fitness was off the charts. He was just. He's in that zone, you know, where you're. You're just. You're playing game, playing game, you're feeling good. It's like the best feeling in the world. Nothing can go wrong. And then now, all of a sudden, he's just picked up this little niggle. So I. I don't think this is, like, a huge thing. I just want to make sure that he gets this right and takes care of his body. And it's the hardest thing sometimes now to be, like, the advocate for your own body and knowing that, like, you know, I'm tired because it's seen as a weakness. You're like, hey, you know what? I need to practice off. You know, I've got a little bit of a niggle. I've got a knock, and it's impossible to know, like, when that is coming and trying to avoid it if you can still play. So that's what I'm a little bit worried about with Christian here.
- [32:49]
Stu Holden
Yeah. Well articulated, I think, for me. And we all got to this point, Stu, you battled through a ton of injuries, but I hope that even though he's young, he's very experienced, and he is the most important player on Milan, he's the most important player on the US Women's national team, which is incredible. You know, I hope that not just because of this injury. Injuries happen. And as you said, he's had this incredible ability to sustain this run and this consistency he's been on. What I would like for him now is as he starts to get that seniority again, even though he's young, is to start having conversations in those rooms where it's his voice and go, no, nope, nope, not. Not. Not playing today. Can't. Because you know what? You need me and right now, my body, whereas we know we've been in rooms, we're just like, I can't play today, but I just got to say yes. I just have to say yes. And the more senior you get, the more clout you get by being great. You can then say, mm, mm. Nah. If the guy upstairs wants me to play next week, then I need rest. And by the way, I'm not training Monday, I'm not training Tuesday. I'll be in the physio room because you need me on the weekend. So I think he's getting to that stage. But I hope the injury isn't bad and that the rehab is. Goes. Goes well.
- [33:57]
Landon Donovan
Yes, I live that, by the way. Just quickly. My first ACL tear was the Gold Cup Final 2013, and then I went back to Bolton after that and I'd rehabbed here in the US for four and a half, five months. Got myself to a really good point where I felt like, I'm good to go back. I'm going to be on this path to getting back to playing. I went back and Bolton saw me and they were like, wow. I mean, you're, you're flying. You're, you know, your health, your, your, your strength is good, you look good, your fitness is good. Like, let's run you through some tests. So I went through these tests and they're like, all right, we're going to get you back into practice in the next, like, three weeks and we're going to put on this, this, this, this reserve game at the stadium and make it a big thing and it's going to be your comeback. And in my head, I was like, wait, that's not even six months since I tore my acl. But then I started to believe myself and, like, convince myself. But then it was also feeling the pressure of the World cup was three months away. My coach was like, we need you back in. You know, we're pushing to get promoted back to the Premier League, all this stuff. I played my first game back from that acl, man, and I succumbed to that pressure, even though I probably was experienced enough. I just got emotionally invested in, like, okay, I can do this. Like, that's where I should be. 22nd minute against Everton Reserves. Bang. ACL goes again, you know, and that's me out for a year. And that was just like, that kind of was the beginning of the end. And I just didn't have the, like, I needed somebody to tell me in that moment, stew, don't do it. No, it's not worth it. You need three more months. Your knee hasn't healed inside. Instead, I was like, yeah, these doctors are telling me I'm good. I'm. I'm good. I think I'm good.
- [35:39]
Tim Howard
I'm.
- [35:39]
Stu Holden
Yeah. All right.
- [35:39]
Landon Donovan
I got to play. And then, you know, that was it. My injury history is a lot more complex than what Christian has got going, but, like, same emotions apply, you know?
- [35:50]
Stu Holden
Yeah. The conversation around it is the same, you know, people being able to advocate for yourself and being able to have people around you who are advocating for you. Because we talked about this. When Christian went back to Milan, it was club versus country is real. You are an asset to both, and they want everything. And as you said, they can see you in the red zone, and they're still going, mm. How do we get more? Because I need more. Because what happens with the US national team is more important to me than what happens at Milan and vice versa. So having. Having strong advocates, I think is important. We want to get your take on something here. PSV beat Twenta 6 1. Tillman and Ricardo Pepe both scored. The interesting conversation that we're having, both Landon and I and everyone in America is, we need a number nine. Flo gets injured. Flo's a number nine. But Ricardo Pepe, like, God bless him, he's arrogant, he's hungry. He wants the goals. He's getting the goals like it's his time. Give us your thoughts on where we are with the striker position, what you think about Pepe, and kind of the order of things that I know flows out for a little bit.
- [36:57]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. I long felt that Flo Baligan had the highest upside potential, I think, based on raw skill and athletic ability and all the other stuff. But you guys know as well as I do, and we've experienced this with the national team as well, like, it's who's in form and who wants that jersey. And look to me, it's Pepe right now. Like, Pepe deserves it. He does need to make, I think, an important next move now, whether he could stay where he's at. He's at a good level right now. And I heard you guys have this discussion on one of your. Your previous pods and about, you know, like, finding the right club. It has to be the right fit for you. Is MLS a better option? Sometimes do. Sometimes we fall in love with this idea of being in Europe. But what I would say for Ricardo Pepe, it's pretty obvious. Obvious and evident he made the wrong move initially by going to Augsburg, but at the same time, that was the club that was going to pay FC Dallas the most money. And it was one of the best options for him in that moment. In hindsight, it wasn't because he was going to a team that was relegation battle. He's not getting chances. And then his development at that period in his career really, really faltered and he kind of just stood in neutral. But now I think what you're seeing. We always knew Pepe was a really good raw finisher. He has the tools to be that number nine, but he was lacking some of that confidence. But also, I still felt like mentally and tactically he wasn't at that next level. And I think he's learned some of that from being in Germany and then also now from. From being in Holland. But, yeah, the question to me is if he makes that next move and when he does make that next move, is he in a position in a team where he's getting chances consistently and scoring goals? Like that's the most important thing for a final. And then I'm totally fine with Pepe being this starting nine for us men's national team. And then all of a sudden we got a bit of a, you know, competition up there between he, Baligan and Sergeant. But I love what I've seen from Pepe. I think he's shown like he can bounce back mentally from being cut from the World cup in 22. He can. He can bounce back from being completely discarded by a team in the Bundesliga. And he's got a bit of that Clint Dempsey dog in him. He's, you know, he's got that, like, I want to fight for this and I love that. I've seen that. And I think it's made him a better player because of that. So if we were starting a game tomorrow, I'm playing Ricardo Pepe up front.
- [39:19]
Stu Holden
Totally. Yeah. And look, I think. I think for. And we've all been there, right? We all. We've all. We've all been the journey of, like, trying to. Trying to make a World cup team, trying to be relevant. And right now he has 18 months to do that. And if I'm in his camp, I'm just simply saying, look, you've now proven you can score goals on this level. Anything you do now, between now and the next 18 months, just be in a position to score goals. If that means go on loan to mls, if that means go to another club, does that means stay at psv? I don't care. At this point, all you need to do is consistently score goals between now and then, and then you get yourself in the shop window and you're in a World cup, and here you go. So I totally agree with that.
- [39:58]
Tim Howard
So, Stewie, last thing before we let you get out of here and thank you for taking time. We know you're happy because you didn't have to do drop off today.
- [40:05]
Landon Donovan
Now, if we can go another like, 20 minutes. Kids are about to leave.
- [40:10]
Tim Howard
So last thing we'd like to. We want to pick your brain on. So we had a conversation last week. Where are. It was two years to the day since the Netherlands game in the World Cup. Are we better off today as a national team or not? And why? And then, you know, where are we going and how does it look for the next couple of years? Obviously for next 18 months?
- [40:35]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, I think we are in a better place because, you know, naturally these guys now that made up this team were. Are two years on in their development and they're more experienced. Some of these guys are playing more consistently now at their clubs. And I think that was the thing going into 2022. A lot of, you know, Weston was playing, Christian was playing, Tyler was playing in healthy, you know, Tim Ream was. So what I think has happened over the next two years is that and. And really in the Copa America, the. The leadership council or the, you know, the passing of the baton for Greg Burhalter to try to develop some of these guys into leadership, I don't think it really happened because these guys weren't playing at their clubs. And I recently just wrote an article on this on Fox Sports about, like, when we. When I thought about our team in 2010 and I pulled up the lineup against Algeria, you know, Landon, you were a captain. Tim, you were a captain. Boca Negra Demerit, Chirundalo, Bradley, like, all of you guys were captains and you were captain personalities and individuals, but also you were playing, like, big roles at your teams. And Tim, it's going back to something you talked about at the beginning of the pod, about, like, being able to walk in that locker room and know that, like, you just have a different confidence and also a. An authority to it. And when you're looking around in tough games on the field, like, I would look to you guys to be like, oh, man, these guys are fine. Like, we're good. We're going to get through this. And I think that this team has really lacked big individuals that are willing to take that responsibility. And I've. I've been happy with the way that Pulisic has developed. He's not a natural leader. Vocally, you know, all the just justiculations. But he would lead by example, by performing, but he still kind of wants to do that. I call him a bit of a reluctant leader, but, you know, outside of Tim Ream, there wasn't really, like, you know, somebody that was just the calming influence on the team outside of Tyler Adams. And so Jedi Robinson's in a much better place. Pep. Pepe's playing a lot. And so now that would be my challenge to this group is, I think, talent wise, we're in a better place. It's just like, can we now the core of leadership develop genuinely within that team? Then I think we'll be in a good spot for 26. And I think that's the challenge for Mauricio Pochettino is to empower some of these guys, but also push them at their club level. Like, hey, guys, don't just be okay with being a, like, leader on the national team. Go be a leader in your club in these European locker rooms where you walk in and these guys are like, who's this American kid? You know? And you earn that by playing for. You have to earn that right to do that, by being an impactful player on the field. And then your voice develops, you develop, your experience develops. And I think the national team will be better because of that. So I think we're in a better place than we were in 22, because these guys were all 21, 22, 23 years old. But yet for the US to be successful in 26, it's leadership, and then it's the guys 12 through 18, pushing the guys in front and that. We have, like, real competition for that. Starting 11. Then, you know, that. That's. That's when I think we could be talking about quarterfinals or semifinal because we. We have the talent to do it, if that's realistic or not. You know, we'll probably know that in a year or so, I think.
- [43:51]
Stu Holden
Well said, Stewie.
- [43:53]
Tim Howard
It's been an honor, man. We could not have thought of a better first guest ever kicked off the guest.
- [43:59]
Landon Donovan
You know, it's all downhill. It's all downhill from here, boys.
- [44:04]
Tim Howard
Man, we will. We would love to have you back if you have time. Best of luck to you in everything you do. Thanks for everything you do to help grow the sport, too. Happy holidays.
- [44:14]
Landon Donovan
Thanks, Ricky.
- [44:15]
Stu Holden
Thanks, bro.
- [44:15]
Landon Donovan
Thanks, Ricky.
- [44:16]
Tim Howard
I mean, Landon. Let me show you that ring one more time.
- [44:21]
Landon Donovan
All right, Timmy. Timmy, always a pleasure, bro.
- [44:23]
Stu Holden
Good to see you, brother.
- [44:24]
Tim Howard
All right, let's take a break. When we get back, we'll Talk more about the Premier League here on Unfiltered Turd Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen.
- [44:41]
Stu Holden
The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.
- [44:46]
Tim Howard
Since 2019, Volkswagen has been on a mission to drive the future of the sport we all love, and VW is committed to making it more diverse, inclusive and accessible for everyone.
- [44:56]
Stu Holden
They're not just talking about it, they're out there doing it. VW's partnerships, programs and soccer clinics are unlocking opportunities for the next generation of players and fans.
- [45:04]
Tim Howard
As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly powered by the people.
- [45:17]
Stu Holden
Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting US Soccer at vw.com future you faces.
- [45:28]
Tim Howard
Some big expectations, work out more, go to bed earlier and most importantly, make smart money decisions. Thankfully today you has bank of America one place with tools and guidance to help balance tasks from budgeting to saving.
- [45:42]
Landon Donovan
So you can just be you with big plans.
- [45:45]
Tim Howard
Do more with a bank that asks.
- [45:46]
Landon Donovan
What would you like the power to do?
- [45:48]
Tim Howard
Explore our tips and more. Bankofamerica.com FutureU.
- [45:55]
Stu Holden
Craven the Hunter who uses all the methods of the animals. This Thursday.
- [46:02]
Landon Donovan
Once you're on his list, there's only one way off.
- [46:06]
Stu Holden
Are you like your father?
- [46:07]
Landon Donovan
He puts evil into the world.
- [46:09]
Tim Howard
I get rid of people like him. Who's next?
- [46:12]
Stu Holden
Witness the making of a new Marvel villain.
- [46:15]
Tim Howard
You think you have some kind of honor. You're a criminal just like our father.
- [46:18]
Stu Holden
Aaron Taylor Johnson is Craven the Hunter. Rated R under 17 on A Minute Without Parent.
- [46:24]
Landon Donovan
In theaters Thursday.
- [46:26]
Stu Holden
LG let's jump into the Premier League. Little bit chaotic. So Liverpool and Everton at Goodison park was postponed due to crazy weather, particularly in that area. So with them not playing, you then get you then get Man City drawing to Crystal Palace 22 Arsenal draw one all with Fulham. They didn't take advantage of that and we will talk about someone who did take advantage of it in Chelsea. But Forrest then beats Man United 3 2. Which is just like when you start to think about like the new process under Ruben Amarim. It's going to take time and you're like that's okay but we just, we need to get some results and then that doesn't help. Like that really, really hurts when it.
- [47:10]
Tim Howard
Comes to like, yeah, they're like, they're trending upward. Right. And then it's funny, if you just. If you knew nothing about the Premier League this year, you'd say they lost to Forest. Yeah, but Forest are actually a good team and they're good. They're. They're kind of lingering up near the top, like, much higher than they should be. But this was. This was a bad result. It was a bad result for United.
- [47:34]
Stu Holden
It's a real. It's a really bad result. And. But again, it's like, I know, I know Forest is doing well this season, but, like, as a new manager coming in, you still need to get those results. Right. Because part of it, as we've talked about, is the so many, you know, stripping away the old ideas from. From 10 hag and putting in your new ideas as Amarim and as you do that, you need to get some results. And that didn't happen. And. But also the performance, although it wasn't totally flat, it was a little. It was a little bit. It left. It left something to be desired. Look, you can see the patterns. You can definitely see the ideas. I don't think the players are there. So, like, you're almost looking at this now as like, let's. Maybe this season is kind of a wash. Europe's probably gone in terms of like, top four. We're not going to win. We're not going to win the league. So maybe we just take it on the chin and we just keep working at getting better in terms of philosophy, knowing that there's going to be players.
- [48:27]
Tim Howard
But that's so hard, Tim, because that is the right approach in every sport. You know, the Lakers for a while were just down. You're not doing the Celtics down. The right approach is you just start over. You start clean and you build and you build and you build. But it's so hard because every weekend feels like a must win when you're in the Premier. As you know, when you're in the Premier League, so.
- [48:49]
Stu Holden
And you're the biggest. And you're the biggest team, the biggest name.
- [48:52]
Tim Howard
Yeah, that's how it works. You know, he's going to have. Ruben Amaram's going to have. He's got a PR management.
- [49:00]
Landon Donovan
Sure.
- [49:02]
Tim Howard
On his hands. Right. Like, that's. That to him is 1, 2 and 3. Internally and externally. How do you handle it internally with your players? Look, I know we lost. We're getting better. We're doing the right things. Externally, we lost, but we're getting better. This is going to take time. This is a process and it's going to be interesting to see meanwhile.
- [49:18]
Stu Holden
Yeah, he's a State like figure as, as every United manager is. So you have to, you have to try and manage things on and off the field. Speaking of off the field. Go ahead. I know you were going to jump in.
- [49:28]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I was going to say meanwhile, well, Dan Ashworth exits United as sporting director. I think it was happening while you were on air.
- [49:36]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [49:36]
Tim Howard
Or during that time. So what, what was the, what was going on?
- [49:39]
Stu Holden
Yeah, so, so, so, so tons of background here. So obviously Dan Ashworth, he, he is, he was so highly coveted at Newcastle as a technical director and United wanted, wanted him and paid, paid a couple million pounds for him and they put him on gardening leave, which obviously then that meant he couldn't work for five or six months.
- [50:02]
Tim Howard
Wait, can you explain gardening leave? What the hell does that mean?
- [50:05]
Stu Holden
You know, it's kind of a garden. It's almost like a non compete really.
- [50:09]
Tim Howard
Where, where, why do they call it gardening leave?
- [50:11]
Stu Holden
That's a good point.
- [50:12]
Tim Howard
Does he go gardening for a while?
- [50:13]
Stu Holden
He does. He doesn't go gardening. He spends a lot of time in his garden.
- [50:17]
Tim Howard
That's what I'm saying.
- [50:18]
Stu Holden
Yeah, yeah, probably they identified their guy, they went out and got him. They went, jumped through all these hoops because he's that highly sought after. And Jim Radcliffe and then Omar Barada that they brought in at the level and then he gets there and I'm trying to think when he arrived, he ends up, they agreed a compensation deal in July and then he hits the ground running and as you know, after the Man City, Man United, FA Cup Final, Man United win, they do a season review, right? And then they extend, not extend, ten Hag, they keep him on as manager. Right. That's obviously a collective decision. It has to be right. Everyone has input and then when you do that, you have to back the manager. We've always talked about that. We understand that. That's how it works. And so Dan Ashworth was in charge of going out and signing Xerxe Yarrow Masrawi, which are players delict, which are players that 10 Hag wanted. That's naturally, that's how you should do it, by the way. And Dan Ashworth said are my signings. Because we've backed the manager, we brought him back, we want to, we want to get him his signings. Then obviously it doesn't, it doesn't go well. And here, and here's the problem. Because this information, by the way, in a perfect world got leaked. Here's why. Because United would Want this to maybe come out at worst on Sunday during the Tottenham Chelsea game, right? You can kind of bury it somewhere in there Sunday afternoon at best. It comes out Monday morning. None of that happened, right. So this information was leaked and they talked about him leaving by mutual consent. I can assure you Dan Ashworth didn't leave Manchester United five months after he got there by mutual consent. Here's a. Here, here's. Here's a key factor. Let me read this to you. United were beat by Liverpool in September, 3 nil. Ashworth tells a reporter that he played no role whatsoever in retaining 10 HAG in a joint interview with essentially his boss, Omar Barrada.
- [52:24]
Tim Howard
Oh, boy.
- [52:24]
Stu Holden
Who says 10 Hag has our full backing? So now this becomes, this becomes probably untenable, essentially. This is like, I've been. Dan Ashworth probably in that moment undermined Omar Barrada and then it was just a matter of time, right? Which is. I'm just not sure you do that. In fact, I'm certain you don't. You don't undermine the, the, the person who's directly above you. And if you do, you have to be ready for these consequences.
- [52:54]
Tim Howard
Tim, there's an old saying, you get hired for your talent, you get fired for your inability to get along with people, right? So, like, no matter how good you are, how talented, if you can't get along with the person that matters in the club, it's only a matter of time, like you said. And so this is, this is tough to see. Not good for United, who were hopefully stabilizing and now just throws upheaval in all of it. So, yeah, the team, you know, I'm watching from afar, you're more in it. But the team that nobody talks about, who all of a sudden is four points back, five points back, four points back, is Chelsea, right? And they're just kind of under the radar doing their thing. They. They went away to Spurs. It was more comfortable than a 4:3 victory. Well, they're down 2:1 at halftime and both you and Gary Neville, halftime went out on limits that I think Chelsea are going to win.
- [53:40]
Stu Holden
Totally.
- [53:41]
Tim Howard
Chelsea won and they deserved it. And so, I mean. And while Liverpool sat back and were happy with the Arsenal City results, I think the team now they have to be worried about is Chelsea.
- [53:51]
Stu Holden
Yeah, look, it's incredible because the reason no one talked about Chelsea is because Chelsea hadn't gotten it right. This is now becoming very, very right. What do I mean by that? Todd Boehly comes in, they sign a ton of young players, right? Too many Young players and the entire squad has ballooned. They sign them all to these very lengthy contracts. No one can figure out what's going on. It's manager after manager after manager, right? And then Mareska comes in. And Mareska right now has the magic wand. He's doing so many things right with this team. He's got them aggressive. He trimmed his squad. I mean, Raheem Sterling went out, right? He trimmed his squad. He said, these, I don't want these players. I know they sign. I don't want them. They're out. Then he took two teams and he said, I'm going to have a weekend team in the Premier League and then I'm going to have a midweek team. That's it. And he's been very direct. He, Matteweke, who's been brilliant. He didn't start him because he said, I know you scored, you're playing well, but you're not working hard enough. Brilliant from a manager, right? Plays Jadon Sancho. Sancho ends up scoring. So now he's got this magic wand. Things are going. And the reason no one thought that was because why would we. Managers couldn't get it right. Why is Mareska, who hasn't had any Premier League experience, going to get it right? These are all kids, except for the fact it's now working. They've got the best player in the Premier League and Cole Palmer alongside with Mo Salah, of course, at Liverpool. And things are working really well. And so I think he's downplayed it, you know, in terms of. They're not in the title race. They're absolutely right in the thick of the title race. And I think the great thing is that's his job, is just to downplay it, Continuing to drive his team forward because, you know, which I'm sure you'll say, but as players, they'll be on the chat group. I said yesterday, they'll be on the chat group going, we're in this thing, you know, and so no matter what the manager says inside that dress room, they know they're in it.
- [55:39]
Tim Howard
Yeah. So I think the reason why. You know this way better than I do. But being in England, there's so much garbage going on in the media all the time. And they haven't had. They've had United's disastrous things going on, City falling apart, you know, Arsenal's always grabbing headlines, you know, Ang and Tottenham and everything, and they've just. They've been under the radar. Nobody's paying. So now the question is, now that people starting to pay attention. Now all of a sudden, they're sacking the table. Now how do they handle it? Sure, people will start talking, and if they creep closer, people start talking to them. And they've been able to go under the radar. And it's been, it's been pretty impressive.
- [56:17]
Stu Holden
And one of the things about, you know, just to dovetail off that one of the great things about youth is the naivety.
- [56:22]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [56:23]
Stu Holden
These players don't know any better. They're expressing themselves. They're in a title. They're in a title chase in the Premier League. They're like, this is what dreams are made of. Like, and it's great when you're not, when you're not experienced, you don't have to worry about, like, your past ghosts and demons. These kids are like, let's go. It's in front of us. Let's fight. And so, so I think that's pretty awesome.
- [56:40]
Tim Howard
So, last thing I want to talk about, Premier League. This was interesting off the field. So fans always complaining about ticket prices. And you and I have talked about that. You have, you have an interesting, you have an interesting opinion on this. So I think as Chelsea fans are complaining that their season tickets are like $1,000.
- [56:55]
Stu Holden
Everyone's complaining.
- [56:56]
Tim Howard
Yeah, everyone's complaining. Thousand dollars, $1,200. Can you compare that to a US sports for people to understand across the pond?
- [57:07]
Stu Holden
Yeah, I mean, kind of. My, my shared experience was like, you know, I'm a, I'm a. For my sins. I'm a New York Giants fan and New York Knicks fan. And, you know, I, I always want to go to those games, but they're like, too expensive. You know, like any decent seat. And I'm not talking about the ones all the way at the top, but any decent seat is super expensive. You know, when you, when you, when you talk about, forget season ticket, I couldn't force you to take a loan out for that, but like, per game ticket, I was like, this seems really, really high. So I get to England and I'm in the Premier League and I'm young and I hear that fans complain about ticket rises and season ticket prices all the time. Every year, anytime there's a rise, they complain, which I guess is their prerogative. But then I remember digging a little bit, a little bit deeper and I was like. And I was like, well, how much is a. And I know there's different amounts of games and amounts of home games based on NFL and Premier League and NBA, but I remember thinking, like, somebody would tell me how Much a season ticket was. And it was, at the time, I think it was like £500 or something. And I was like, for the game.
- [58:14]
Tim Howard
Or for the entire season, that's one game for a Knicks game, right?
- [58:17]
Stu Holden
So I'm like, well, I'm from New York and if I wanted to see a Knicks game and like have like not have to bring my binoculars, I pay $500 for like one seat. And so like, it didn't, it never, it never registered with me not to look. People, people work hard and they spend their hard earned money, right? But the production for soul, this is the interesting thing. The product continues to go up. Television rights continue to go up, right? Value for players and contracts continue to go up. It's natural in that ecosystem that ticket prices go up like everything does. And so I've never really. Look, I understand the plight of the fan. Of course, you want to make things accessible and affordable, but at the same time as fans, and I'm a fan, right, we like to complain about any and everything. And that's just another thing that fans will complain about with their club. And oftentimes I, to be honest, I think the clubs are doing. The clubs are all. Are a business and are having to run the business effectively. And oftentimes you have to raise season ticket prices when it's merited.
- [59:15]
Tim Howard
But the, I think the challenge people have is if you dig deeper, you say, okay, this is everyone's complaint, right? These are all billionaires.
- [59:23]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [59:23]
Tim Howard
So why are they charging me an extra $15 a seat?
- [59:26]
Stu Holden
Right?
- [59:27]
Tim Howard
But the owners have to ask themselves, seriously. And I think the NFL started to pick up on this. All of their money, you know, 90 whatever percent of their money comes from TV, right? It doesn't come from, especially in the NFL where there's eight home games, nine home games. It doesn't come from your nine home games, right? So whether you're charging someone 300 or 200 or 100, it doesn't make a massive difference in your bottom line. It might be a few million dollars, maybe $10 million, which in the grand scheme of thing for a club, not that much money, right? When they're getting billions of dollars and individually as clubs, hundreds of millions of dollars through the TV deals. And it's the same with the Premier League. Like they, I know they have more games, they have 19 home games plus cup games, FA cup, all that. But is it really worth it? I don't know. But to your point, all you Premier League fans come spend a, come spend a year in the US and Go to sport, Tim. In the playoffs. The Padres, right?
- [60:21]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [60:22]
Tim Howard
Tickets. Average tickets for Padre games in whatever. SEC didn't matter what section. 400, 500, $600,000. I saw people with their families go, they, by the end of it, they're spending five grand.
- [60:34]
Stu Holden
Oh, yeah.
- [60:34]
Tim Howard
Go to a game. And I'm thinking to myself, where are these people getting this money? I mean, like, you talk about taking out a loan, but I'm like, yeah, how do this many people are affording to do this?
- [60:44]
Stu Holden
Those prices. Yeah.
- [60:45]
Tim Howard
Insane.
- [60:45]
Stu Holden
It's insane.
- [60:46]
Tim Howard
Insane. All right, we are going to take another break. When we get back, we will dive into mailbag questions with jailbag. Anything but soccer. Lots to come. Still on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim. Presented by Volkswagen. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.
- [61:13]
D
There's nothing sweeter than bacon cookies during.
- [61:16]
Stu Holden
The holidays with Prime, I get all.
- [61:18]
Tim Howard
My ingredients delivered right to my door fast and free. No last minute store trips needed.
- [61:23]
Stu Holden
And of course, I blast my favorite holiday playlist on Amazon Music.
- [61:26]
D
It's the ultimate soundtrack for creating unforgettable memories from streaming to shopping. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
- [61:39]
Stu Holden
LD it's mailbag time, everyone's favorite time of the week because our listeners get to have their say. You know who else favorite time of the week? It is J.R. j.R. Jordan. Get in here. Get some FaceTime. We know you love it.
- [61:54]
D
Do you see my hat?
- [61:56]
Stu Holden
Of course.
- [61:56]
Tim Howard
Oh, you got swag. Of course.
- [61:57]
Stu Holden
I love it. Is that a Gotham hat? Yeah, it is. It's good. Team. We're gonna get. We're gonna get you a Houston Dash hat. Don't you worry about that.
- [62:04]
D
I have plenty of room to hang them on, so send them on. All right, so first thing I wanna do is just talk a little bit. Last week you guys talked about Landon's cap that' behind him. So I did a little digging and I think you guys talked about this a little bit, that it used to be that teams didn't wear matching jerseys, they wore matching hats. And so that's where the concept for the cap came from.
- [62:28]
Tim Howard
In the game.
- [62:28]
D
But they started. Yeah, in the game.
- [62:30]
Tim Howard
What?
- [62:31]
D
So this was back in like the mid to late 1800s when the game was first invented. So in 1886, a gentleman by the name of N.L. jackson wrote a rule.
- [62:44]
Stu Holden
Shout out to N.L. jackson.
- [62:45]
D
All players taking part for England in future international matches will be presented with a white silk cap with red rose embroidered on the front. Oh, that's these to be termed international caps. So that's where it comes from.
- [62:58]
Stu Holden
Love it. Well done, Jordan. That's Jordan. That's why we really N.L. jackson. Good for you. Old Corinthians Football Club 1886.
- [63:05]
D
All right, let's dive into our mailbag with our first question from Michael via email. What do Tim and Landon think the role of the USL should be in the overall U.S. soccer and U.S. mental National Team landscape?
- [63:19]
Tim Howard
I'll go first. I think it's critical. I really do there and for all reasons. There are 30 markets now in MLS, but there are lots of big markets in our country now. San Diego was the last sort of huge market. Vegas, Phoenix, without MLS teams. But there are lots of great soccer markets in our country that need to be represented. And so I think it's crucial from that standpoint, from a player standpoint. You know, MLS has tried really hard with MLS Next Pro and development product, but the reality still for MLS Next Pro is that those environments don't compare to USL environments. And I lived it for four years coaching with Loyal, so having real professional environments. A guy I saw on Saturday, Miguel Berry, who, who didn't get into the game but is with the LA Galaxy, he was playing early days with Loyal. He came on loan to us. And playing in that environment, even only for 10 weeks or 10 games, gave him the opportunity then to go back into MLS and make a real career for himself in Columbus. So having that is crucial from a player standpoint and then also off the field. As I said, just having markets represented is crucial.
- [64:39]
Stu Holden
Yeah, I mean, I don't think Landon has to be. Has to be one fix, right? USL can. Can feed a lot of different areas. And I think when, you know, In Memphis with 901 FC, it was about creating an opportunity for guys to earn a living. Right? Like these were guys who were never going to get to the mls and they earned a decent living. I also think there's a. There's an opportunity. As Landon said, in this country, we haven't quite figured out the best path for players at a lower level. And the problem with USL is they don't want to be seen as a second division. They're a thriving first division. And so when you look abroad, as Landon mentioned, if I'm at Manchester United and I'm not quite ready, I can go on loan to a championship club and ply my trade. In fact, they actually do that quite often to young players just to kind of get them stronger and more equipped to play in like a tough environment. And so it could serve as that. But I think the, you, I think the usl, again, it's going to depend on partnerships. It's going to depend on, on whether, whether they want to continue to stay as an independent league. But ultimately you have a lot of voices and for so many owners, it's about creating a product on the field that is profitable and trying to bring the best players in. What I would say is the top 10, the top 10 best players in the USL are better prepared to compete and contribute in the MLS than any kid coming out of college. And so for sure, there's some incredibly talented players unfortunately on the MLS side. And I've seen this throughout time, they almost look down their noses at USL players and it's almost like we shouldn't go dip into that. And I would, I would, I would push to any MLS club go out and look the top 10 best USL players, they absolutely can compete in your team.
- [66:38]
Tim Howard
Agreed.
- [66:40]
D
Okay, second question is from Jamie via email. What are your opinions on MLS changing their seasonal schedule to something that matches the European calendar?
- [66:53]
Tim Howard
I think it would be. Look, it's like a lot of things like promotion, relegation, et cetera. Theoretically amazing because it would help everybody just be more aligned players from a player standpoint. Helps players be way more aligned with the scheduling, with international breaks, et cetera. The challenge for sure is for MLS is the weather. But my argument to that is there's bad weather everywhere in the world. I mean, there is. And so if they're worried about weather impacting attendance in mls, unlike the Premier League or the NFL, that's actually a real thing because there is a significant portion of revenue that comes through your in game experience. But I would guess now, my guess is now MLS is mature enough, the fans care enough, or if it's 17 degrees in Toronto, they're still coming to the game. That would be my guess. I mean, they do it in the NFL. You watch Buffalo games, everyone's there every season sold out. So I think the league is mature enough for it. I would love to see it.
- [67:57]
Stu Holden
Same. No, no, I don't have anything to add because I do. I think, I think with the restrictions of weather, they probably, they probably pale in comparison to all the benefits of actually being on the full international calendar that every other player gets around the world. So I think that's important. So. And you could probably find a way to be really clever and tweak some of the, some of the games and where the games are played and that type of.
- [68:22]
D
Okay, last question is also via email, which People want to write in is feedback@unfilteredsocccer.com this one's from Andrew. How do you feel about how the pro leagues regulate finances? Do you think the profit and sustainability rules need revision in the Premier League so that Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal aren't the only teams able to fight for a title? Should MLS keep their salary cap as it is now, or make it so that teams have more opportunity to draw in top talent while they're in their prime?
- [68:53]
Stu Holden
Well, I think what profit and sustainability has shown in the Premier League is that they are trying to balance things out a little bit. And you know, Everton was hit with sanctions, Nottingham Forest was hit with sanctions. Man City could be as well. And so it makes you have to be a little bit more responsible and frugal with your books. And so I think that is a good thing. We are seeing that. Regarding mls, people have to remember MLS is for so long. Back when I started, I started 1998, two years after the, the league was born, really. And there was a. There were so many failed soccer leagues in America throughout the course of our history that they had to keep things tight. They had to keep the wallets tight. The spending couldn't balloon. We had to grow this league. And a credit to all the owners and commissioners who have tried to grow this league and make it sustainable. Like, we couldn't go from 0 to 100. There had to be these growing metrics. And, and we've, and we've seen that, we've seen that go up. Look, as. As far as I'm concerned, I do, I do think spending is good in the right areas, but you can't go, you know, you can't go top heavy and just, and just spend when, when some of the other vehicles for profit into the club aren't quite there yet. So yeah, look, I think that the model right now, and I'm obviously incredibly interested to hear Landon's take on it and we spoke with, with Stu a little bit ago about what Is it important to bring the biggest player in the world in or is it, is it important to spread that money throughout your squad and be successful?
- [70:28]
Tim Howard
I'll speak to the MLS perspective. The league is, like I just said, with the calendar change, the league is mature enough to handle it. Right. So every owner in the league is a billionaire.
- [70:38]
Stu Holden
Right.
- [70:38]
Tim Howard
So these are not stupid people. These women and men know what they're doing with their money.
- [70:43]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [70:44]
Tim Howard
So they can make the decisions. Right. If you want to pay Messi, whatever the hell, who knows what Inter Miami paid him. Great. That's your decision, your choice, and that's great and that's good for the league. What I would like to see, because what's happened with all these different types of rules, you know, GAM and TAM and you know, under 22 initiative, what happens when rules are made is people find ways to break it or manipulate it or, or unintended consequences happen. And the unintended consequence from all of these mechanisms to bring players to M MLS is less American players getting chances. Right. So you're incentivized to go out and spend 800,000 1.5 million on a young South American, but you're not incentivized to keep Brandon Vasquez in the league.
- [71:33]
Stu Holden
Right.
- [71:34]
Tim Howard
If you're Cincinnati. And so he ends up going to Monterey. Hopefully it looks like maybe he'll be coming back maybe to San Jose. But you, you want the incentive to be. To keep all those players and bring in other players from around the globe. So I would like to see almost all of those restrictions lifted, have some version of a cap, like a really a hard cap where, you know, what if it's 15 million, 20 million, 30 million, maybe you can still spend on one or two players outside of that, if you have a messy or whatever. But let's just open the purse strings a little, not go crazy, but give teams more and more autonomy to make those decisions.
- [72:10]
Stu Holden
Love it.
- [72:11]
D
That's it. Thanks, guys.
- [72:12]
Tim Howard
Junior, thank you. All right, Timmy, your neck of the woods.
- [72:17]
Landon Donovan
Yep.
- [72:18]
Tim Howard
The New York Mets.
- [72:20]
Stu Holden
Oh boy.
- [72:21]
Tim Howard
Decided to spend. Get ready.
- [72:25]
Stu Holden
Yep.
- [72:25]
Tim Howard
$756 million on a 15 year contract for Juan Soto. No deferred money, unlike the Dodgers with Ohtani. Thoughts?
- [72:38]
Stu Holden
How much up front? 7.
- [72:39]
Tim Howard
$75 million signing bonus. So he might be able to buy himself a car or something. Yeah, just crazy, you know?
- [72:47]
Stu Holden
Look, I want feedback. We always talk about, hit us up at unfiltered soccer, give us your feedback. Because I need like some staunch baseball fans to like weigh in here. Fifteen million.
- [73:02]
Tim Howard
Three quarters of a billion years.
- [73:04]
Stu Holden
Fifteen years. Three quarters of a billion dollars. It's the 15. I'm almost better with the money than I am with the years. I don't, I don't understand. I know Alex Rodriguez back when signed like a 13 year deal or something. I don't understand the length of these contracts because Juan Soto, if I'm correct, he's probably not giving you 15 years of good service. Right? Like, I mean, I hope that's not like blasphemous, like who's giving you who can you commit to giving you 15 years of production? Right. I know there's an opt out after five years. It's the numbers. The numbers make you dizzy, right? And all, and all I, all I can think about is Bobby Bonilla, for God's sake. Right. They're still paying him till 2035. He's getting a million per year.
- [73:50]
Tim Howard
What a guy.
- [73:51]
Stu Holden
So here's the thing. Three takeaways. It's good to be Bobby Bonus you. It's good to be Juan Soto and it's really good to be Scott Boris, who is his mega agent. And it's, I guess, great to be in the New York market because it's going to be some, be some big hitters. You know, I think the Mets and the Yankees showed this year that they're back. Not as back as your Dodgers are, but it's fun. I think it's fun. I love, I would have liked to see him stay at the, at the Yankees, but a lot of fun.
- [74:20]
Tim Howard
You. Here's what's interesting to me, okay. So when you get into levels of wealth, right, I always think about like, does it really matter if it's 736 million or 756? And you have to, you have to assume, you have to assume that every team in the running got somewhere close to 756, right? Maybe it was 650, maybe it was 700. Maybe. Now the years, I don't know if the years even mattered. I don't know. I don't know if it's, if it's 13 years and 756. Does he care? You know, I like again, if there's someone who's really inside on baseball and knows these things, please let us know. But I, if I'm a club.
- [75:02]
Stu Holden
Yeah.
- [75:03]
Tim Howard
Why are you committing 15 years? But then the reality is is Juan Soto had all the power, all the leverage and all these things are always about leverage, right? Yeah, I'll just. When I was doing my last deal with the Galaxy, I knew I was only playing a few more years. They knew I was only playing a few more years. And so we're like, we're wrestling back and forth. Is it two and a half million? Is it three million? Is it three and a half million? But they know I'm only playing a few years, so I had some leverage. They also knew I wasn't going anywhere.
- [75:34]
Stu Holden
Right.
- [75:34]
Tim Howard
I'm not going to leave and go play in Spain for the last year of my life. So they know I love it there. They know I want so there's like a respect factor of not taking advantage of that. But they all, you know, they have some leverage. I have some leverage, but he had all the leverage. My question for him, and look, I don't begrudge anyone getting their money, so great, get your money. But, dude, you had a good thing going at the Yankees. Like, you guys could be good forever. And I don't know if the Mets are going to be good and. But I don't know if he cares.
- [76:04]
Stu Holden
But here's to your point, right? So The Mets were 15 years, 756 million. I think the Yankees offered 16 years at roughly the same, give or take. Roughly the same, Right? So there was an extra year. And I think it speaks to the psyche of us former athletes, but athletes like, I personally, on the outside, I'm like, stay with Yankees. Like, the numbers are virtually the same. You're not giving the Mets 15 years. You're not giving the Yankees 16 years. So, like, stay with the Yankees, right? Build there, because you have a great thing. But also, as we know, everyone likes being the highest paid. Everyone likes being the marquee set, right? Because, by the way, he's not the marquee name on. On. On the stadium at the Yankees.
- [76:47]
Tim Howard
Yeah, that's true.
- [76:47]
Stu Holden
But if he goes across town, he's now the marquee name in the same market. So it's. It speaks to the psyche of these players, and I don't begrudge him at all. Well done to the mats.
- [76:56]
Tim Howard
All right, well, please, please, please give us comments on that because we're confused just like most of you. All right, thanks for all you guys for being with us today. Special shout out to Stewie Stu holden for talking MLS with us. Remember to subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your pods. Follow us across all social media platforms at Unfiltered Soccer for extra content. Appreciate you guys.
- [77:18]
Stu Holden
Yeah, thanks for everybody for listening. Thanks, Stu Holden. I mean, what, what. What an absolute gent and legend. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, vw. Have a great week. We'll be back next Tuesday with another edition of Unfiltered Soccer.