NCAA Soccer with guest Rob Dow, Head Coach at the University of Vermont

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard Episode: NCAA Soccer with Guest Rob Dow, Head Coach at the University of Vermont
Release Date: February 25, 2025

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with hosts Landon Donovan and Tim Howard exchanging light-hearted banter about their Valentine's Day plans, setting a relaxed and personable tone for the discussion. Donovan introduces the special guest, Rob Dow, the Head Coach of the University of Vermont's NCAA National Champions men's soccer team.

Notable Quote:

• [00:00] Landon Donovan: “I went to Leverkusen and the first day I was there, nobody passed me the ball. I'm like, why are they not passing me the ball at 16 years old?”

2. Rob Dow’s Personal Journey and Early Challenges

Rob Dow shares a personal anecdote about balancing his commitment to the NCAA tournament with the arrival of his newborn son. Despite the timing challenges, Dow highlights the supportive environment within his family and team.

Notable Quotes:

• [02:22] Rob Dow: “We went to the doctor's office on Tuesday, after Hofstra on Sunday and said, can we do this thing?... my son, Russell William Dow, was born. So just in time.”
• [03:58] Tim Howard: “When I think about the University of Vermont and the heights that you've achieved there, I think it's always important to, like, unwind that and start.”

3. Building a Championship Team at Vermont

Dow elaborates on his coaching journey, emphasizing the transformation of the University of Vermont's soccer program from a lower-ranked team to consistent NCAA tournament contenders. He attributes this success to a focus on intangible qualities such as work ethic, resiliency, and mental toughness, alongside building a strong team culture.

Notable Quote:

• [05:07] Rob Dow: “But what we've always prioritized is the intangible talents of work ethic, resiliency, mental toughness, prioritizing the locker room, these types of things, culture of your team.”

4. Recruiting Strategies and Team Culture

The discussion shifts to recruiting strategies, where Dow explains how the University of Vermont attracts both domestic and international talent. Emphasizing the authentic brotherhood within the team, Dow highlights that current players often recruit new prospects, fostering a cohesive and supportive environment.

Notable Quotes:

• [12:30] Landon Donovan: “Rob, can you help us understand? So we were talking before the show... How does a person... end up in the soccer world?”
• [14:06] Rob Dow: “The culture in our team is, you know, everyone says family, a brotherhood, but it's authentic.”

5. Impact of the Transfer Portal and NIL Deals

Dow addresses the challenges posed by the transfer portal and Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) deals, which have introduced financial incentives for players to transfer between programs. While acknowledging the benefits, such as greater player autonomy, he also points out the difficulties in maintaining team consistency and the financial pressures these changes bring.

Notable Quotes:

• [19:03] Rob Dow: “But it's our decision now to either stand still and talk about how great 2024 was for years or, you know, continue the success and exist in this competitive financial world.”
• [19:19] Rob Dow: “Yes. You're not getting the million dollar signing bonus as they want to compare it to, but it's somewhere between $5,000 and $25,000.”

6. Comparing American and European Youth Development Systems

Donovan and Howard delve into a comparison between American collegiate soccer and European youth development systems. They discuss the limitations of the current NCAA structure, which only allows for a few months of competitive play annually, hindering player development compared to the year-round training and competition in Europe.

Notable Quotes:

• [31:24] Landon Donovan: “if you're at college for four years and you've played three months during the year, that's it. You're way behind.”
• [35:23] Tim Howard: “...you have to be training regularly every day.”

7. Challenges in NCAA Soccer and Proposed Reforms

The conversation highlights significant challenges within NCAA soccer, including limited playing time, inadequate training periods, and the increasing commercialization of college sports. Donovan expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of extending the college soccer season but acknowledges ongoing reforms aimed at aligning the NCAA calendar more closely with professional standards.

Notable Quotes:

• [36:03] Landon Donovan: “But you have to be training regularly every day. And... the NCAA's mantra is to help all sports.”
• [44:13] Tim Howard: “Well, listen, I think college soccer has a really interesting, or takes up an interesting space in American soccer... needs probably a revamp coming up soon.”

8. Listener Questions and Final Thoughts

In the latter part of the episode, Donovan and Howard address listener-submitted questions, discussing topics such as the impact of Title IX on men's collegiate sports, the viability of utilizing European-style development in the U.S., and the effectiveness of the MLS SuperDraft in identifying and developing talent.

Notable Quotes:

• [48:46] Tim Howard: “I think Title IX is fantastic and it gives so much money to women's sports... we still need the football money.”
• [57:33] Tim Howard: “...the player's actually, he's pretty good. He knows how to head it and kick it and play a pass here or there, but overall, he's not a very good soccer player because he hasn't had... he's gone, he's gone five years almost.”

9. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Donovan and Howard expressing their appreciation for Rob Dow’s insights and the University of Vermont’s soccer program. They reiterate the importance of team culture and leadership in building successful programs despite the evolving challenges in collegiate soccer.

Notable Quotes:

• [26:10] Tim Howard: “There you go. We're going to pin that. We're going to use that. That's awesome, Rob. Continued success.”
• [60:35] Landon Donovan: “I’m fan now forever. Of the Vermont Catamounts.”

Key Takeaways

• Team Culture and Leadership: A strong, authentic team culture centered around work ethic, resilience, and mutual support is crucial for sustained success in collegiate soccer.
• Recruiting Challenges: Balancing the recruitment of talented players, both domestic and international, is essential, especially in the face of financial incentives provided by the transfer portal and NIL deals.
• Systemic Issues in NCAA Soccer: The current NCAA structure limits player development due to short competitive seasons and inadequate training, necessitating significant reforms to align with professional standards.
• Impact of Commercialization: The increasing commercialization of college sports, particularly through NIL deals, impacts team dynamics and recruitment strategies, posing challenges for maintaining program consistency.
• Comparison with European Models: American collegiate soccer lags behind European youth development systems, which offer year-round training and competitive play, highlighting the need for a more integrated and professional approach in the U.S.

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Transcript

[Landon Donovan]

I went to Leverkusen and the first day I was there, nobody passed me the ball. I'm like, why are they not passing me the ball at 16 years old? And he goes, why would they want you to succeed? That versus college environment totally different. Unfiltered soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S. soccer for the past five years. Timmy, we're back back at it. For everyone's knowledge, we are recording this on Valentine's Day. Yeah, we are. You got plans tonight?

[Tim Howard]

I am going to go to dinner and then I'm going to be in bed because I have to be up at 3:30am for studio, so.

[Landon Donovan]

Oh, jeez.

[Tim Howard]

It's going to be more like a lunch than it is.

[Landon Donovan]

Okay, fair enough.

[Tim Howard]

You.

[Landon Donovan]

We've got the kiddos. No, kiddos don't exist today. We're going to a spa, getting massages, going to dinner. So you. I'm not a big fan of these, like made up holidays, but to get away from the kids, I'll do anything.

[Tim Howard]

So did you get away from the kids when you were skiing or you brought them with you?

[Landon Donovan]

No, we took them with us.

[Tim Howard]

Are they fun?

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, kids get, Kids get good fast.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Quick.

[Landon Donovan]

Actually, it's amazing.

[Tim Howard]

I'm scared just to ski because they're.

[Landon Donovan]

Like their, their learning curve is so steep. So like once they get it, bang, they go. And they're so good. It was good.

[Tim Howard]

Happy Valentine's Day, bud.

[Landon Donovan]

You too. But. All right, follow us. As always, Unfiltered Soccer. Be sure to subscribe to the show on YouTube. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can follow. Make sure if you like what we're doing, leave a comment. Review us. It helps other people find the show. You can also email us at feedbackunfiltered Soccer. Tim, we've got a special guest today.

[Tim Howard]

We do special guest because so many of the topics that we want to dig into on, on this show and unfiltered is, is what the people want to hear, you know, and that's youth soccer and, and MLS and you US Men's national team and women's national team. But NCAA soccer is a big conversation, a big deal in this country. And we are delighted, absolutely delighted to have with us today the head coach of the University of Vermont NCAA National Champions men's soccer team, Rob Dow. So honored that you are here with us. We have a thousand things we want to ask you and dig into, but no rest for the wicked because you had A newborn son during that NCAA Tournament run. Talk to us. Welcome.

[Rob Dow]

Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. You guys are talking about your Valentine's Day plans? Well, I'm changing diapers and going to.

[Landon Donovan]

Bed early, so I think that's the best.

[Tim Howard]

I think you win.

[Landon Donovan]

I get it. Rob, first question. So I made a conscious decision during my career not to have any children while I was playing. You either made a conscious decision to have a child. Right. During an NCAA tournament run or accidentally had a child during. What's it like when you are. I think it was right before your third round match. All of a sudden, now you've got a phone call from your significant other saying, we're about to have a baby. Can you walk us through that?

[Rob Dow]

Yeah. We had plenty of doctor's appointments, like, weekly. That's how it goes. And right after Hofstra, we won. We were actually hoping that we would host San Diego, which would made the process a lot easier. Anyway, we went to the doctor's office on Tuesday, after Hofstra on Sunday and said, can we do this thing? And then we're like, well, I think we can induce. There's signs to do that. But that didn't work. And I'm about to get on a plane on Thursday on Thanksgiving to San Diego, and that morning, my son, Russell William Dow, was born. So.

[Landon Donovan]

Wow.

[Rob Dow]

Just in time.

[Landon Donovan]

Wow.

[Tim Howard]

Brilliant.

[Landon Donovan]

So you actually did get to see. You were there.

[Rob Dow]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And then you had to get on a plane and leave.

[Rob Dow]

Yes.

[Landon Donovan]

Which I'm sure went over really well in your household.

[Rob Dow]

Super popular.

[Landon Donovan]

See you later.

[Tim Howard]

When I think about the University of Vermont and the heights that you've achieved there, I think it's always important to, like, unwind that and start. Start to come back a little bit. Like, talk to us a little bit about your journey in getting to the University of Vermont, because it doesn't always start at the top.

[Rob Dow]

Yeah. I think had some unique experiences of coaching at every level in the college game. NEIA, Division 3, Division 2, Division 1 Junior College in my first head coaching position. But when we first arrived at Vermont, I think we were ranked somewhere in the 120, 130s in our RPI. And, you know, from there, you know, it was an assistant coach, helped us get to the NCAA Tournament, you know, raise the visibility of the program in the national level. But over the last four years, we've. We've done something that I think might take away a little bit of the Cinderella story, you know, being the NCAA Tournament each of the four years, advancing at round 8 and 22, round of 16 and 23. And so we were building something that we. Where we really felt like we believe the national championship was a possibility.

[Tim Howard]

I think it's, it's hard. You know, what you talk about there is consistency. And when I look at the game of soccer, I mean, you could talk about other sports, but there's different mechanisms in soccer. I think it's, it's almost easier to just have an amazing season, the Cinderella season, and just win. It's a lot harder to consistently be in the final eight, Final four, because that's when, you know, and I always use the example of Arsenal. Arsenal hasn't won a Premier League title yet, but they're finishing second. Finishing second, eventually that's going to put them over the hump. It's so much easier to have this one off success. I mean, the building, the building part of it must be really difficult though, in college soccer.

[Rob Dow]

It is. Especially when you get into like a tournament. So many, so many members, you know, it's, it's cup game format. And in football, you know, we know that the margins are so small in terms of being successful at getting through. But I think like some of the momentum this, that came from this season was believing we can win in all different ways, whether it's PK's down, a goal, you know, a PK in overtime coming back from deficits. But yeah, like the building consistency comes from like, what your program is built on and what. We've had more talented teams in the past, but what we've always prioritized is the intangible talents of work ethic, resiliency, mental toughness, prioritizing the locker room, these types of things, culture of your team. And this year we were the most talented in that area. We had eight or nine guys deep, which were really, really top leaders in those areas.

[Landon Donovan]

Rob, can you help us understand? So we were talking before the show. My family grew up very close to where you're from in Nova Scotia, Canada. And probably every one of our listeners is like, where the hell is that so far? EAS east end of the Earth in North America. Is Nova Scotia a province in Canada and you grew up in Coal Harbor? My family grew up a little further north on Cape Breton. My dad's family from there. How does a person who presumably grew up with hockey and a hockey stick in their hand end up in the soccer world? How did that come about?

[Rob Dow]

It was a really good question. I was playing soccer in the summertime to keep in shape as a hockey player. And somewhere around The I was 13, 14 years old. I started getting a little bit better at soccer and might have made a national team pool once when I was 17 years old in Canada. But I had this really great coach growing up. His name was Stephen Hart and he was from Trinidad and Tobago and he came to Halifax from Trinidad and he coached the senior men's national team eventually for Canada and for tnt. But huge mentor of mine and really in any major step in my game or my coach coaching career, he was a part of it.

[Landon Donovan]

And what did that make you want to then get into coaching? Is that how that I just want.

[Rob Dow]

To stay in football? You know, I wasn't good enough of a player to, to do it long, long term. But you know, as a coach, you know, you quickly realize it's not about you and it's all about everyone else. That was certainly a hard transition, you know, in my early years. But, you know, you live vicariously through these guys and it's the, the best you can do it until you're 70. So why not?

[Tim Howard]

Rob, I think, you know, when, when we were talking about having you on, on the show, soccer junkies like myself and Landon and all of our, our listeners. Take us inside the give us a synopsis of the season. Right, you, you, you. It ends, it ends with a championship. But there are so many. You start preseason in August and then there's all these highs and lows and peaks and valleys. And without giving us one particular moment when you just thought it was going to be an incredible season, take us on the journey of what those couple months looked like over the next couple of minutes.

[Rob Dow]

Yeah, look, we get into preseason, we do this trip every year to the mountains in Vermont. There's a couple turf fields on top of a mountain which is really cool. It's called J Peak Resort. But no one's there. It's just the team. And it's funny, I, I got concussed the day before we left first day of preseason. I got dehydrated, fell down some stairs. Non alcohol related, I promise. And I was concussed for the first two weeks of preseason. And so I had no idea what happened, but something was going right and my staff did a great job, but it just showed the amount of leadership and, and experience that was in the group. But injuries, you know, we come off these really this long season of multiple seasons, whether it's our spring season, usl two seasons into the college season. And we really need to be conscious about, you know, peaking at the right point while we inherited some serious injuries in the team, fortunately, we had depth, but if you look at the first part of our season, it was extremely rocky. Whether it was a loss or, you know, Western Michigan crushed us day one of the season. And, you know, so getting through that, you know, constantly plugging holes. Constantly plugging holes, which is super stressful as a coach. And then we finally got to the point where, okay, this seems like this is going to be the strongest team we can get based on our health, and had some good results, but became complacent at that same time. And I remember playing against UMass. UMass had an amazing season as well. They're extremely underfunded and they're. They overachieve every year, in my opinion. But we played them at home and it was a really big RPI game and we noticed that their top striker, Alec Hughes, was out for the game. And we went down 2 nil early in the match. And it's just like, guys, we. This is an opportunity for us to, I think, solidify ourselves in the national rankings. And we came back from the two Dylan deficit we tied. Had a really good performance in the second half, but enough to say, like, hey, this is what we're capable of in the second half. We need to start games better. We need to hold ourselves accountable to that. And had a long conversation on the field for about 40 to 45 minutes while all the parents are waiting in the, you know, in the post game meal, you know, looking to hug their kids. I was, I was given the hairdryer, but other guys stepped up and I was in that conversation. You know, my assistant Brad, who played for the program, told him what it meant to wear the jersey and, you know, was really honest with the guys that were not living up to it. You know, this is not the standard. This is not what it's going to take to win a national championship, let alone a Merrick east championship. So coming off of that, we really ascended, you know, into the direction where we. We raised the bar and held ourselves accountable to national championship performances.

[Landon Donovan]

Rob, can you walk us through? So you're talking about guys that you have that are leaders and can you. A lot of our. A lot of people who listen to the show probably aren't super familiar with the collegiate world, Right? They follow their professional team or the APL or the national team. Can you walk us through? How do you recruit players to go to Vermont?

[Tim Howard]

Right.

[Landon Donovan]

I mean, if you have a lot.

[Tim Howard]

Of international players as well.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, right.

[Rob Dow]

30 to 35% of our team is.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, right. So you would think, you know, Kids want to, they know if, if they're international, they know New York and they know LA and they know Chicago and Florida. But how do you get them? How do you convince them, I guess to, to go to New York or to Vermont? Sorry.

[Rob Dow]

Yeah, the, the initial conversation is hard, but once we get our, our prospects around our team, it's really easy. The culture in our team is, you know, everyone says family, a brotherhood, but it's authentic. And when we connect a prospect to our group, our, our current players are interviewing the prospect more than the prospects interviewing. Love that the, the team and you know, so the follow up conversation is do you want this guy as your teammate? And it's great. Now recruiting, we gotta expand our network and there's always a connection through somebody to somebody on a recruit and we just ask, you know, do you want this guy in the locker room? And I think we start building, you know, a team that wants to be around each other.

[Landon Donovan]

Now the beauty of that, Rob, is that you now you know, if you do that from the beginning and you're not successful, people are like, well, you don't get to just choose who you, you want to be there. And, and. But now that you've had success, now you say, okay, you don't fit into what we're doing, then you can go somewhere else and we're fine, we're gonna be fine.

[Rob Dow]

I wish that was still the case at Vermont. We're still going to have to recruit hard. I think. We haven't signed, we signed one player I think since the national championship for the 2025 class and we've got another nine that we need to sign. But the late game is our game and which is great around the pro atmosphere of guys getting released, whether it's here or abroad, but that's going to work for us. But yeah, you get them in your team, you get them around your campus. University of Vermont's a beautiful campus, it's a great school, but you play your strengths on it, right? So we're not in Boston, right? So we're not in New York. There's a lot of other distractions in these urban areas. Our team leans on each other and they do everything together. You know, we had two seniors, fifth year seniors came back for the COVID year who bought meal plans on their own to be able to eat on campus with our freshmen and sophomores because when they were, they were freshmen, they came in, in the COVID world and weren't allowed to leave their dorm room and they felt like they didn't have a connection with their seniors. So they wanted to change that and get to know the group. And it was. That was one of the things that I think bonded ourselves, our team together pretty tight.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Well, one of the things I want to touch on with the COVID year as an example, but let me just give a. A big shout out to what you're doing. I think when I look at the University of Vermont, you're not supposed to be there. And I mean that respectfully.

[Landon Donovan]

Right.

[Tim Howard]

I think back to a guy who I think is a brilliant coach, Caleb Porter, and probably a decade, I don't know, a decade ago, he did the same thing. Akron. Akron, like Akron, is a small program. They shouldn't be on a national stage. It's about UCLA and Maryland and Indiana, and he turned things upside down. And I think what. What you're doing at Vermont and what they're doing at Marshall, I mean, they're turning heads in a big way, because when you look at these schools, you're actually not supposed to be in that conversation, but you're pushing yourself not only into the conversation, but to the top of the class. So I think it's incredible what you're doing. I guess, when you talk about. And you give us the example of those two seniors, right. 50 are coming back, buying their own meal plan. I see so many colleges, so many universities struggling to build that legacy at their school because of the transfer portal. Right. And I think the transfer portal has amazing pluses and amazing minuses. Right. One of the negatives is kids aren't staying at the same school for four years. Right. So. So by the time you're used to having seniors put their arm around freshmen, they're not there anymore because it's a kid who's coming from another. How important is the transfer portal to you in terms of bringing players in, but also, how does it hurt the program?

[Rob Dow]

Yeah, I think we hit success at the program's highest level in 2022 at the right time, when the portal was really taking fire. And so we got some top players at that time, and we could have been on the other end and constantly trying to catch up in this way to retain our guys. But it's about the people, right? So it's always about the people. And if. If your team, you know, you guys have been on plenty of teams, and do you want to show up and train every day with these guys? Do they. Do they give you energy or do they take energy? And when you can accumulate this group where, you know, the team can think of the guys can think about the team first and themselves seconds. Then it creates an atmosphere where people want to be and stay. Now, beyond the culture standpoint, we're continuing to try and recruit experience and known quantities in the transfer portal, but you know, it's going to go beyond, or it's already gone beyond success. Now it's going to. It's about money into this nil and revenue sharing world, which we'll have to exist in here really quick. We've lost guys already in this recruiting class to offers that we couldn't compete with. But it's our decision now to either stand still and talk about how great 2024 was for years or, you know, continue the success and exist in this competitive financial world. In college sports.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, collegiate athletics doesn't, doesn't exist anymore. It's basically professional Division 2, you know, with some academics thrown in. So.

[Landon Donovan]

And is that Rob? That is. Now, this is an ignorant question, but that is really seeping into soccer as well now, like players are getting offered money now to go to other schools.

[Rob Dow]

Yes. You're not getting the million dollar signing bonus as they want to compare it to, but it's somewhere between $5,000 and $25,000.

[Landon Donovan]

Wow.

[Tim Howard]

Which is significant for a lot of these kids.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, of course it is. And to some extent you can't blame them. But I like what you're doing is you're saying, look, you either want to be here or you don't. Right. If $5,000 is going to convince you, then you can go somewhere else. Right. But you're right. At some point, do you believe I'm using smaller schools in quotes, but not a national perennial powerhouse like Vermont? Are you going to have to now start playing in that game?

[Rob Dow]

Yes, we'll have to start playing in. Well, I think we're about to play in that game. You know, we're probably a week fresh of starting to think of those ideas. And this, guys, this is on top of a full scholarship, on top of a cost of attendance, on top of Alston money, you know, which is already, you know, eight. That's like eight to $9,000 of, you know, money in which a student athlete can pocket.

[Tim Howard]

You know, I just, I just went through the recruiting process with my daughter. We know all about the Alston money when that comes on the table. Well, listen, I think you're in a, in fantastic position to have that conversation. Right? You, you've just won the national championship. Get all those alumni. I've got a dear friend, Mitch Dector, who played at the program and I'm sure he'll be putting some money into the program.

[Landon Donovan]

Tony up Mitch.

[Rob Dow]

I love to talk to Mitch.

[Tim Howard]

Mitch, me, me, you and Rob are going to get on a call, but I. No, I think it's, it's where, it's where the, the sport is going and as you said, it's if It's a, if $5,000, $10,000 is difference, as Landon mentioned, of keeping one of your better players, that has to happen. That's part of the business side of it. I'm also curious. I know a couple of your players in the summer play in USL League two. Is that something you encourage? Do you want more of your players to do that if possible, just to continue to get high level games?

[Rob Dow]

We do. It's great for our younger guys specifically and I think we want to have our older guys playing. But maybe in teams where there's lots of depth, where you know, we can have a meaningful preseason, you know, where we're not just fully resting guys but we've got a great team in town that plays at our stadium, Vermont Green. I know that name's gone around the country, maybe world, but their philosophy and what they stand for and social justice and. But like it's, it's we, our top players want to play and they play with sold out crowds and the energy in our stadium is unbelievable for such a small venue. Soccer really matters in Vermont and that's. You brought up Caleb Porter, right? When I was a young coach, I was an assistant at the time, I used to love getting on YouTube and watching Caleb Porter and the passion, the energy he displayed to his teams and the identity that was so clear. That's something I took from him. Absolutely. There's a Vermont identity that is I think unique and we'll stick to that.

[Landon Donovan]

Rob, last few things and we'll let you go. We know you're busy. We appreciate you taking the time today. Who were your outside of Caleb, were coaches maybe you looked up to even if they were in other sports or people that you either try to model yourself after or idolize?

[Rob Dow]

Yeah, I really appreciated Coach K's books on value points and non negotiables and how you build a team culture. He's very clear and concise about how you do that and the communication in which you use within your, your team so that people can all quickly come back to, you know, points in which we all agreed to be at at the beginning of the season. And it was really cool. I got a chance to talk to him probably a couple weeks after the national championship. So.

[Tim Howard]

Wow, what was that like?

[Rob Dow]

But, but as of now, like talking to you guys is definitely, I was going to say.

[Tim Howard]

Oh my God, Rob, at the. At the risk of the wrath of Vermont's athletic director, once you build this dynasty and win three or four more national champions, is there ever a world in which you want to coach internationally, professionally? Is that something that you see further out on your horizon?

[Rob Dow]

I appreciate you thinking that that could be a possibility. Yeah. Four more national championships and let's beat Stanford's three in a row that they won't. And later on. Yeah, I mean, look, I think it'd be an honor to be able to coach at the national team level in some capacity in Canada, whether it's a youth team or so forth. And I've done some work with U.S. soccer and their scouting department, but you know, you kind of leave me speechless, you know, thinking about that. But I appreciate it and might need your guys connections if I go abroad.

[Tim Howard]

No problem at all. We have plenty of those.

[Landon Donovan]

You don't need advice for me. But I think a lot of times people get. I've had a lot of conversations with coaches and young coaches and you get caught up in the level or the is it a national team or is it in the cpl, Canadian Premier League or the mls? And you get caught up in the level and you forget about. The important thing is that you get to coach in the way you want every day. And when you win the way you're winning. I don't know if power is the right word, but it gives you more and more influence to do things the way you want at Vermont. And that's really valuable, right, Versus going somewhere else. I have close friends who have gone up in levels, but they have way less influence over what happens. And it's not as enjoyable for them as just where they were before at a lower level. So it's a cautionary tale. But I'm sure no matter where you go, it's very clear that you know how to be successful. And we're really grateful, Rob, that you took the time. Here we are fans, we were all watching together at the end when you guys beat Marshall and it was fun to watch, it was enjoyable to watch. And wherever it takes you, whether it's Vermont, like Coach K was at Duke for 30 years, or anywhere along the way, we're excited for you and, and we appreciate you taking the time today.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, been an honor. Thanks for coming on.

[Rob Dow]

Thanks guys.

[Landon Donovan]

Any lasting words, Rob? Any lasting words that you want to leave with the fan base.

[Rob Dow]

We're not honor dogs. We're just dogs.

[Tim Howard]

There you go. We're going to pin that. We're going to use that. That's awesome, Rob. Continued success.

[Rob Dow]

Thanks, guys.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, guys, we're going to take a break. Huge thanks to Rob Dow again and the University of Mott the Catamounts. We'll be right back with more NCAA soccer discussions right here on Unfiltered Soccer, presented by by Volkswagen.

[Tim Howard]

The Unfiltered Soccer Podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

Since 2019, Volkswagen has been on a mission to drive the future of the sport we all love, and VW is committed to making it more diverse, inclusive and accessible.

[Tim Howard]

Everyone, they're not just talking about it, they're out there doing it. VW's partnerships, programs and soccer clinics are unlocking opportunities for the next generation of players and fans.

[Landon Donovan]

As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly powered by the people.

[Tim Howard]

Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting U.S. [e-mail] There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed that just isn't your team winning the championship. The weather being good on game day, your friends remembering who has the tickets. Some days you're just a goal scoring machine.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And some days the ball just passes you by right here. On Unfiltered Soccer, we know that no matter how much you love the beautiful game, nothing on the field is guaranteed. Thankfully, AT&T is introducing a brand new guarantee, the AT&T guarantee.

[Tim Howard]

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[Landon Donovan]

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[Tim Howard]

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[Landon Donovan]

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[Tim Howard]

LG I gotta say, I really enjoyed Rob Dow. I think.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, me too.

[Tim Howard]

He's humble, he's a champion. And one of the things I like most about the conversation with him was he talked about culture and he gave us examples of how he built it and people. It's amazing. All people want to talk about now in sports is culture. Culture, it's just like this buzzword and literally nobody knows what it means, nobody knows how to implement it. But then when you see it, when you see it and you see someone who has success because of culture, like they didn't win because they went out and bought all the best players.

[Landon Donovan]

Correct.

[Tim Howard]

They went out and won because they have. As you said, he brought these fifth year seniors back who bought their own meal plan just to be around the freshmen. So well done to him. I enjoyed that.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. We've been around, obviously, lots of teams and you know it when you see it and you feel it, where the culture is right and you know it when it's wrong. Right. And like my first, first day I walked into the Everton dressing room, I was like, oh yeah, this is right. Like they know what they're doing. And he, how many times did he say, my assistants got it right, my seniors got it right. Right? And he's humble. He clearly knows how to lead. I think the most important thing he said was, he said, when we recruit, our seniors are recruiting them and deciding whether or not they want them on this team or not. Right? And I can guarantee you, Tim, there's a lot of times he's probably had a top player come in and they went, not for us. Sorry, totally. We're just not going to sign you. And that is so like when you can flip it on its head. Because most of these, you know, Bill Belichick right now is going into a 17 year old's house and begging them to come play for North Carolina. Right. Until he gets that right. Which he will eventually. But when you can flip that and say, well, do you want to be here or not?

[Tim Howard]

You show us the begging looks different now. He's gonna, he's gonna be begging with a bag.

[Landon Donovan]

Totally.

[Tim Howard]

Take that. You go count that. Me and mom and dad will talk. Look, I think, I think college soccer has a really interesting, or takes up an interesting space in American soccer, like on the, on the women's side. That is the breeding ground.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, right.

[Tim Howard]

Your four year breeding ground. And some are leaving early, but to get to the NWSL or professional soccer Abroad in America for, for the men, it's been a little bit different. You and I, you know, we'll talk about our collective routes, but we didn't go to college. Right. And when you look at just this past December, Philadelphia Union trade all of their draft picks for the next three seasons to the Colorado Rapids for just over, you know, $600,000 in general allocation money. So, you know, even at the end of, at the end of my MLS playing career, there were numbers that were saying draft picks mean nothing. The percentage of kids coming out of college don't make MLS rosters. And so, yeah, it's an interesting space that needs probably a revamp coming up soon.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, and it is, right, from what, everything we hear, there is some version. I'm going to totally butcher this. And so I don't even want to pretend like I know what's going on. But there is some form of a revitalized, revamped college system that is going to allow a European type calendar to happen. So it goes from August to whatever May. And for people who don't know right now, college season now goes basically August through December. Is that right? They finish in December, So they play three months a year. And if you think about 16 and 17 year olds in MLS academies or in youth academies, they're playing 10 or 11 months a year against high quality competition to play three months a year, you have zero chance to develop. If you're at college for four years and you've played three months during the year, that's it. You're way behind. Way behind. And so U.S. soccer has taken the lead on this conversation. We'll get more into this later, but US Soccer has taken the lead and said, let's make an August all the way through May calendar and use college soccer as a form of semi pro soccer. That helps bridge that gap from an 18 year old to a 22 year old. Because around the world, Tim, you know this. If you're 18 and you're not starting to train, at least train with the first team. Your chances of playing or being a real pro are way down. And if you're 22 and you're not playing, you've got almost no chance. Right? So I think this is a positive step once it gets there. And I'd be curious if our fans know more about this because we're kind of learning as we go here. Please let us know. But there is reform coming there and.

[Tim Howard]

There has to be reform coming because, you know, they're what people on the surface at the top of the conversation want to talk about when are we going to produce a world class player, when are we going to win the World cup on the men's side? And you can't, you can't even begin to have that conversation without going to like, the basic levels. You know, you, you talk about you and I being at Everton and underneath us, there was the youth, there was the reserve team and there was under 18s. Like you said, if you're, if you're in the under 18s and you haven't gotten dipped your toe in with the first team, there's a good likelihood you're out the door. But the great thing about that system, Landon, is that's a Premier League club. And if you're an under 18 at a premier League, you don't make it. You can still go to league one, you can maybe go to the championship, right. And make a, and make a decent living for yourself in America, because our system is set up as such. You can't. If you're, if you're 18 and you haven't really done much of anything and produced and you're a certain college, that's it. There's nowhere to go. There's literally nowhere to go. And so, yeah, it'll be interesting because I think it breaks up the traditional norm of like, you know, depending on how U.S. soccer scripts this and we know a few people at U. S Soccer who will hope hopefully get on and talk about it because it's a really interesting topic. But like real, real big conferences, when it comes to college soccer may, may get in that system and no longer.

[Landon Donovan]

Be part of the current, part of the ncaa.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I mean, that's a massive transition.

[Landon Donovan]

Look, my overall take on this is whatever's happening and going on right now is not working still. Right. And I am. When people say, why haven't we won a World Cup? Why? I am always, always. Tim, the person who says, we are so young in this country, Major league Soccer is a few decades old. Give us time. However, as I start to see the last five years, 10 years, what's happening in MLS, fewer and fewer Americans in MLS. What's happening when kids come out of college, fewer and fewer college kids now going on to play professionally. It's not working, right? It's not working. So if we have to flip the thing on its head and see if something new works, I'm all for it. I have no issue with it. I mean, do you think a longer college season will ultimately then lead to more of those players being pros or is this kind of Pie in the sky.

[Tim Howard]

Look, it's, we need to. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a hard question to answer. LD because we need development, right? We need.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's still about the coaches when you look.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, you said it. It's a, it's, it's a mass. You get. These kids get on campus, right in, in early middle July, they start preseason, right. Because of rules and regs, they can't start preseason until August 1st. And then it's literally this sprint out of the traps, right? For preseason, train as hard as you can for, for two weeks you play a couple exhibition games and then boom, you're into a three, a three month season and you're playing twice a week and. And then it's over. And then there's, and then there's Christmas break or holiday break, then you come back and you're limited to eight hours a week. Eight, bro. Eight hours a week. For. I'm getting this wrong, but maybe a month or two and then it goes.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, half of those hours are just, you're just warming up.

[Tim Howard]

You're warming up or you're, or you're in the weight room doing, doing mobility, right? And so like you have to, if you're, if you have any aspirations of building a proper base and youth soccer in this country, youth soccer, I can obviously be extended to college. You have to, you have to be training regularly every day. And you know, these college institutions are. And it's starting to turn because of, because of nil. It was always about. No, no, no. We're educational institution first and I think we've seen. There'll always be books involved. But I think you saw with Ohio State winning the national championship for football. That's a $20 million squad.

[Landon Donovan]

That's insane.

[Tim Howard]

$20 million squad. Anyone who tells me that that's about education anymore. It's not. It's not. It's about business. So yeah, I'm interested to see, you know, any. It's going to take a radical change and a hard pivot on so many different levels in this country with soccer to make a real difference. Because we've, you said it's a couple decades old. It is. We've been doing it for long enough though to understand it ain't working. Not. It's not working in terms of youth development.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm skeptical still that playing more or, or for longer period in college is going to eventually lead to more professionals. But you have like what you have in England and we'll Use England as an example because we both played there. You have a very small geographic footprint, but you have hundreds and hundreds of clubs, almost 100 professional. And then you have or league clubs and then you have a bunch of semi professional, right? And so there's so much opportunity for players. And I know he's the anomaly, like Jamie Vardy, right, Come out of nowhere. And we don't have that, we don't have that capability right now. We don't. And it's, it's, it makes it challenging because you get this small group of players who have basically been picked since they were 12 or 13 and all the resources have gone into those kids and then you just hope some of them make it right, as opposed to casting a much bigger net, which this would do. And hopefully you get a kid who maybe goes to college for two years and was missed by the system, who then becomes a national team player.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I mean I think the, I think the point you make is, is a good one. You know, when I look at Germany and I look at Holland and I look at England, these countries are the size of sometimes small states in America or even like a bigger state. And then they're having at some level an organ, a football organization. They're probably like you said, a hundred plus. You know, like imagine the state of New Jersey having a hundred plus professional teams somehow, some somehow linked to professional or semi professional. You're going to have, if you are any decent player, you're going to have the opportunity to be in with one of those clubs. And yeah, the, the geography has, has butchered a lot of this. You know, the development in U. S Soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

What's your take? I know we've talked about this briefly on, on kids going into the portal and, and transferring and I, I, I really struggle with it, but I also understand a kid who's not playing and this is their one chance to find an opportunity. Like, what's your take on that?

[Tim Howard]

Look, I tend to like, I'm not all for player power, like wholly, but I think it's, I think it adds a balance, right. And when it adds a balance, then both sides have to get creative. But what I didn't like was, you know, a young woman or young man going into a University at 17, 18 years old and then for whatever reason, right, they either don't perform well or they've fallen out with the coach or a new coach comes in, which we've oftentimes seen and you're not that coach's cup of tea. They don't like Your style, they want to bring someone else in. So either you just sit there and rot or you transfer. But then you sit out. You have to sit out a year, right? This, this I kind of like because I said NCAA sports has now become a business. Well, back up. It's always been a business. Going to say, it's now become an acceptable obvious out in the open business. And this allows some of these young men and women to navigate their own careers and say, like, this isn't a fit any longer and I shouldn't be punished for that. Right? Because I always thought the opposite was true. When a coach is done with you and doesn't have time for you, well, they just recruit somebody in your position and they go, you go sit over there. And you're like, well, I can't better myself anymore. I'm done. I'm surplus to requirements. And so I think it hands the power back a little bit to these young men and women to allow them to kind of be able to control some of, of the direction of their career. Now, like, everything, it has its ups and downs, but like I said, it's about getting clever. I know coaches personally who basically are like, I'm at a. I'm at a Power 4 school. I'm not really going to recruit too heavily. I'm just going to wait for the transfer portal. I'm going to bring in all the best kids that fell out at UCLA and Oklahoma and these places. By the way, I'm getting grade one recruits, right? Yeah, they're falling in my lap and I have an amazing program. And they're building a team, a national powerhouse team based on the transfer portal. So it works both ways.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, not only a transfer portal, but they can also pay players now. So. So really, the recruitment, like you said, comes with a bag in your hand, right? Here's a bag of cash. And it changes the whole conversation versus, you know, Vermont's a great school. Vermont has a beautiful camp. It's like, okay, here's some money. Do you want to do it or not? But you know who's going to win, Tim, in the end. And this is, this is always in life. There'll be all these different iterations, all these different mechanisms. Things will change whatever. The people who win are the Rob Daos of the world because they create, and we'll talk about it again, culture where people want to be there. And ultimately, you know, I learned this in usl, right, with San Diego. Loyal. When we were with San Diego, we were a couple years, we were a top six, spending Club. Other years we were, you know, middle of the table, right. But we always finished near the top or in the playoffs because one, San Diego, right. People want to be in San Diego, but if you're offering a guy 80 grand and he has an offer for 95 grand, but you can provide so many other things that you know will help them and you can prove that over time they're going to come to you. And that's what's happening with Rob and at Vermont. Now he can say, look, like I said earlier, if you don't want to be here, don't come. You know, we're not begging you. Before you had to beg. And he still has to do some of that. He alluded to that. But it allows you the opportunity to flip the script a little bit. And people like that will always win, no matter what changes around them.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I mean, some of the smaller, so called smaller schools will win out, right? Because the kids who aren't necessarily, you know, who are at a Power 4 school and they just can't get a sniff, they might go to a what, you know, quote unquote, smaller school. But look, make no mistake about it, I know firsthand this when we talk about business, right? LD it's no different, by the way, than LeBron James saying, like, I'll take a meeting with the Knicks, I'll take a meeting with the Lakers. Once I take those meetings, okay, who's giving me what? Like I know firsthand of a girl who's gone to three transfer, gone to three schools, big schools, visited the campuses, heard everything and then gone. Okay, I like y'all. Who's giving me what?

[Landon Donovan]

Mm.

[Tim Howard]

And the biggest bitter one. And I think that's. I think that's a great thing.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, yeah. And look, if you. Everybody values different things, right? Every so again, I'll reference loyal. Again, when we would talk to a free agent, we would intentionally ask, what do you value? If it's money, just say it. I don't care if it's money, just tell me, right? Like, we don't have to have this. Like, I just care about the club. And it's like, just tell me if it's money for some kid. For, you know, some people it is. Some people grew up with a lot of money. 80 grand isn't going to change their life. So it's living in San Diego or it's the club or it's the ownership or it's whatever. So as long as there's clarity around that, no problem. And if it's money, then Just tell me.

[Tim Howard]

And most of the time it is. And I. Look, you and I. You and I had a lot of phone calls when I was. When I was at Memphis night of one FC and you were at San Diego. And we talk and we talk about players and different things. And I can remember also player coming into my office and saying, like, Tim, I appreciate you guys taking a chance. I mean, I had a great season, but like, indy's offering me 50,000 more. And I'm. And I'm like, hey, kid, get your eyes off the floor. Go get out that. Get out that door and go sign that contract.

[Landon Donovan]

I can't keep your ticket to Indy.

[Tim Howard]

You know, you don't have to be upset about. About it. And so it's. Yeah, it's about the money and, and that's where we are in college sports.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. All right. We will tie a ball on it with that. Gonna be interesting to see how it un. Unfolds because there are changes coming. And, you know, basically what a lot of these top Division 1 schools have said or these conferences have said is if the NCAA doesn't get on board with changing this schedule, we're just going to leave. Right. We're just going to leave the ncaa. So there's going to be. There'll be a power struggle there. And, and the schools have made it clear that at least in soccer, three months isn't enough. Like, they need to have a real season in order for. For these players to develop coaches, to develop people to be more involved in the sport. I think it's good for everyone.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it's great.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll get into your Questions in the AT&T fan connection and talk ant anything but soccer. Right here on unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen. So stick around.

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[Jordan]

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[Tim Howard]

It's time for the Fan connection presented by AT&T. Every week we invite you, the listener, to connect with us by submitting your questions. The best way to grow the game of soccer in the US is, is to keep asking questions and keep talking about this sport we all love. At, AT and T. Connecting changes everything. And on uslnt, our connections with you will help grow the game. LD everyone's favorite, favorite time.

[Landon Donovan]

Everybody.

[Tim Howard]

Including, including Jordan's favorite time of the week. Jordan, get on in here.

[Landon Donovan]

J.R. hello.

[Tim Howard]

Yes, Jordan, what do we got?

[Jordan]

Jordan, what do we got? We've got some NCAA questions. So this first one's a little spicy, so I'm interested to see what you guys have. This is via email from Brad. It says, I hear so little conversation about the impact that college football in conjunction with Title 9 has upon other men's college sports. When a university has to spend the same amount on women's sports as it spends on men's sports. Totally well intentioned by the way. And 60, 80 scholarships are given to men playing American football. We see the result. Major universities dropping men's non revenue sports like soccer, swimming and cross country. What are your thoughts about this? Would it be right to take men's American football out of the Title 9 equality calculation? Maybe create women's American football programs or some other solution?

[Tim Howard]

Holy hell. You said spicy. That was just. God, that was a flamethrower.

[Landon Donovan]

Tim, go ahead. You have a daughter in this world.

[Tim Howard]

No, I mean, look, I, I think the, I think Title nine is fantastic and it gives, it gives so much money to women's sports and, and that, and that empowerment. So look, I, I understand the question, right, because, because of that you, you have the power players and the king, which is American football. It's, it's king in college and it's king in the NFL. It's the most money maker by a trillion percent. So everything then trickles down from there in a really good way. The, the, the gray part is that some men's varsity. But the suggestion that we take football out of the equation. Okay, but then you, you, you get, you don't get nearly as much money coming into, into the universities. Right. Like that money is coming into universities through television rights, through donors and, and alumni. And they're just not, you know, as Rob Dow just mentioned to us, they're not paying tons of money for, for nil deals for the men's soccer team. Team. Right. And so we still, we still need the football money. In my opinion, if there's another way to do it. And I certainly don't like seeing varsity sports get cut. That's difficult.

[Rob Dow]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

I don't have, I don't have too much to add. I just. The system's broken. Right. Like, we have to admit that. And very few systems are perfect. So you have to accept that as a starting point. I, I don't know this world very well, but I do see it. I have seen it. Lots of men's collegiate soccer programs have gone away and it's just a byproduct of what happens. It's weird because in some ways you want to say let the market dictate what should happen, but the NCAA's mantra is to help all sports. Right. And so it's just, it hasn't, it probably hasn't worked out the way everyone wanted, but there's enough creative people and there's enough money where there should be a solution like sports should not be going away out of collegiate schools. It doesn't make sense.

[Tim Howard]

Right, agreed.

[Landon Donovan]

So I don't know the answer. I mean, that's an interesting, It's a great question. It's an interesting idea. He said to take football out, but I would be curious to see what that then looks like.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, I think the money drops. I don't know if there's even enough money left in the pot to, to keep. Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Because who else? Well, college basketball, perhaps.

[Tim Howard]

Sure, sure.

[Landon Donovan]

But then there's not enough money still probably to fund all these things.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it's a great question. I appreciate that.

[Landon Donovan]

Great question.

[Tim Howard]

Very thought provoking.

[Jordan]

Okay. I have one that's kind of more like a statement, but I want to get your take on this. So this is from someone whose name is also Jordan via email. And it says, I feel like in a country like the US Trying to utilize a European style of youth development is going to be imp. Possible If I'm trying to get kids access to soccer, I get American soccer on tv. I encourage school soccer programs, get the coaches the licensing and training they need, and I make college soccer more intriguing. Try to convince a college soccer team to look more professional and turn big noon kickoff into a men's and women's college double header on Saturday afternoon. Lean into the American system rather than trying to copy the Euros. What do you guys think about that?

[Tim Howard]

I disagree. You know, it's a. It's a good point that Jordan makes, but we. We have tried every variation. Landon and I have been a part of this as young players and as parents. Now we've tried every variation almost of trying to create a system. And, and when you look at how the rest of the world operates, it starts with the professional clubs and then it trickles down. They. They. They fund and facilitate one of the. One of the. And. And Jordan brings up a good point. You know, get the coaching. The coaching, youth development coaching in America is poor. And that. That would be disaster. Okay. Yeah. So poor. I thought I was kind of understating. We still have to. We still have to figure out how to get better coaching. And oftentimes when you can streamline it and put it underneath the Everton way, Liverpool way, Manchester United way, and you get these coaches. I mean, it happens all the time in Spain, each club, and in Holland and Germany as well, each club has a certain style or philosophy. And you. You start that at the senior team that you see that's playing Champions League, all the way down to the kitties and the under nines. They all play the same way and the same philosophy. There's only really one way to do it, to have success, in my opinion.

[Landon Donovan]

And we just talked about nca. The NCAA as an institution doesn't care about soccer. And to be honest, they only care about football and basketball because it makes them a lot of money. Let's just call it what it is. So you can't make collegiate soccer that much better unless you have people who are invested and care about it, who are the governing body. Right. Which is the NCAA. And, you know, the challenge now with U.S. soccer is that is the governing body. I think people at the top do care. Genuinely. The problem in our society is there's too many fractured parts of youth soccer in America, and there's no commonality between any of it. And that's where the problems are. When you go to Everton, it's all about Everton. All about Everton, up and down the system. You go to Liverpool, it's all about. And in MLS clubs, it feels that way, too. But the Premier League as a whole, the governing body, is all about promoting the sport and making it better. In this country, we don't have people at the bottom who care about the sport and making it better. They care about money. And that's all there is to it. And that's, you know, that's just the way it is.

[Jordan]

So it's kind of like a catch 22 in a way, because, like, what this other Jordan is talking about is something that's more suited to a sport that's slightly more popular than soccer is in the country in terms of, like, the amount of money that's coming in at the professional level. Because, I mean, the NFL is just pouring. There's so much money in there compared to what's in mls. But then by the same token, what you're talking about is there's also a problem at the other end, right, for the youth and NCAA soccer. So it's kind of like, how do you solve both of those things at the same time?

[Landon Donovan]

Well, he's. What. What George, he or she is is suggesting is that we change the whole system to be American, right? And if that is how it had started here and that's how the rest of the world did it, it would be more accepted. It would. There would be a function, a functionality that would work. And in the women's game, to. To some extent, it does work, right? And now there's not the influx of money, but it does work that way because that's the way it's been. And, And. But that's probably going to change, right? It's probably going to change and go more towards how the rest of the world goes.

[Jordan]

Okay, one more question. This one came from X or Twitter, whatever we're calling it now. It's from Gavin. It says Patrick Ajimeng made it to the U.S. men's National Team, working his way up from Division 3 college ball. In your opinion, are college players overlooked or not getting enough attention from mlf? Are there any changes to the super draft that need to happen?

[Landon Donovan]

Yes, players get overlooked. What? We talked to Rob about this, Rob Dow, and he said 30 to 35% of his players are internationals. What's. The players that get overlooked are really the. Like. Like ajamong, like a Division 3 or an NAIA kid. Those kids get overlooked because those are. Those are some kids. And Tim and I talked about this before the show started today. Those are kids who were in professional academies Till they were 18, maybe, then tried to make it as a pro somewhere else for a year or two. But these are good kids, like very good players. Just because they're not as good as the top kid at Man City. They're not Phil Foden doesn't mean they're not good players. They just don't get signed by Man City. But these are good players. It's less so with Americans. I think Patrick is the anomaly in that way. But there are a lot of international players who then, by the way, can still be signed by MLS clubs out of college and get green cards quickly. Could also become American and Americanized. But yeah, it's, you know, we alluded to it with Philly. They don't value the draft and that's okay because they have a fantastic youth system. But there are a lot of players who get overlooked. There's no question.

[Tim Howard]

Let's pull all of these things together. If I'm an MLS team, right? You and I are MLS owners, right? We own a team together and we're trying to draft a player. It's not that these college players aren't good. You've been in the LA Galaxy preseason when college players have come in, right? I've been in New York and in Denver when these college players come in. You're ultimately ld getting a 20 year old player, right, who hasn't played a lot of soccer in the last five years. So. So you've seen it, right? The player's actually, he's pretty good. He knows how to head it and kick it, get it down, play a pass here or there, but hit. Overall, he's not a very good soccer player because he hasn't had. So he's gone, he's gone five years almost and played no soccer, like little to no soccer. He's played from like September to November and then he's asked to come into a, into a MLS team, which, by the way, it's win now. It's invest in you. Why would, why would we invest in a player who's already passed his sell by day and we don't even know if we can develop him because he's 20 years old already? Like, does that start to make sense a little bit? And that's why so many. And MLS has tried, by the way. They've had the draft. They've had the draft, the super draft, and ultimately the numbers are just like, this isn't, this isn't pie in the sky. MLS overall, every single team is basically saying, we draft x amount of players out of the super draft. And by year two, they're no longer with our organization. If every team's saying that, what's the point of going through that exercise?

[Landon Donovan]

So, wow, let's tie it back to the collegiate landscape. Soccer. Collegiate landscape potentially changing. So in that way, as you're talking through that, I'm thinking, okay, there is a chance because now if you're playing year round, but that's a starting point. The other crucial factor, and I cannot overstate this, is being in the environment of professional soccer versus college soccer. It is. They are complete opposites. When you are a 16 year old and I went to Leverkusen and the first day I was there training, nobody passed me the ball and I went to my dad, I'm like, why are they not passing me the ball? And they, at 16 years old, and he goes, goes, why would they want you to succeed? Yeah, this is their livelihood. You know, this kid's from Bulgaria. He has nothing else he needs to succeed here. That versus going to a college environment where everything's fun and happy and we're bros and all that. Totally different. And so if you've. You've been a 16 year old in that environment for three or four years, you are miles better than a 20 year old who's been playing three years of college soccer. Miles. Even if you're not as talented.

[Tim Howard]

Totally.

[Landon Donovan]

You're just hardened.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

You are a much different player.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, that's right.

[Landon Donovan]

Good job, junior.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much. All right.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, we'll see you later. All right, Tim. That was fun. I enjoyed that. Rob was great, huh?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it was.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, he was great.

[Tim Howard]

Look at him.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm fan now forever. Of the Vermont Catamounts.

[Tim Howard]

We gotta get some Catamount gear.

[Landon Donovan]

Oh, that'd be sick, right? Maybe by saying that they'll send us some. I would love that. That. All right, guys, thanks for being with us today. This was a lot of fun. It is Valentine's Day, even though you're hearing this a little bit later. So have fun. Enjoy yourselves. If you're alone. No problem. Find love, friends, family. Enjoy the evening. Remember to subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your pods. Follow the show across all social media at Unfiltered Soccer for lots of bonus content.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Really appreciate all of you. And thanks to our presenting sponsor, VW and our fan connection sponsor AT&T. Have an amazing week. Stay safe, stay blessed. We'll see you next Tuesday with another edition of Unfiltered Soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

See you guys.