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- [00:01]
Landon Donovan
Welcome into another episode of Unfiltered Soccer, a special one because you might be wondering what in the heck we're doing sitting next to each other on a fancy couch here in Chicago. But we have the really amazing honor of interviewing U.S. men's National Team head coach Mauricio Pochettino. We're super excited for this internally, but we know you as our listeners and the fans are beyond excited to hear what he has to say. So it's going to be aces. We're excited for it and really looking forward to having him join us in the room.
- [00:33]
Tim Howard
We'll be there in one minute. As always, guys, follow us at Unfiltered Soccer on all the social media. Follow on Apple Podcast, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcast. Subscribe like on YouTube. As always, you can email us at unfiltered feedbackunfiltered soccer.com and without further ado, Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen.
- [00:58]
Landon Donovan
Well, we are, we are delighted to have with us in this country the top of the top, the king of US Soccer, which is Mauricio Pochettino. So great to see you again. Always enjoy spending time with you in the past and talking football. Our audience, Unfiltered Soccer audience, is so hungry to hear from you. They just can't, they cannot wait and neither can we. So thank you for being here.
- [01:22]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, thank you so much. For me, I think it's a, it's a great honor to be with you two legend.
- [01:27]
Landon Donovan
Thank you.
- [01:28]
Mauricio Pochettino
Amazing. And I think, I think it's a fantastic opportunity to talk about football and always it's a pleasure to talk with you both.
- [01:37]
Tim Howard
Good. So you've had some time now with the team. A few different camps, a long January camp, some shorter camps. So our first question is because we're kind of old and get cynical and grumpy sometimes, but what can fans be excited about in the next year leading up to the World Cup? And we're going to get into some of the harder questions and what's going on, but how can we be excited about this team as we move forward?
- [02:02]
Mauricio Pochettino
Well, I think the first is the federation and all the staff and the people involved in prepare. I'm being the host of the World cup in one year and I think we try to translate that passion and, and the excitement about to be part, and to be involved in the World cup in one year here and then all the people also that is helping us around telling you like building the new training ground to many people that is doing an amazing effort in an Economic, but also in time to help the federation to create some things and legacy for the future. Not only for now, for the present, if not for the future. I think. But I think the country in behind is what we are feeling. That is in behind. Also the fans is in behind. They are so exciting that the World cup arrived in the same time. It's true that we are building something and always when you are building something, always are up and downs in this period. It's true that we are a little bit disappointed. We were very excited after January, not because of the two races against Venezuela or Costa Rica, but was about the. How the player showed the team show that aggressivity that we want to translate. And then with all the circumstances in March as in the circumstance didn't help us to show that. I think we are a little bit pessimistic about that. But I think that only needs to be a thing that can help us to improve and to realize that we need to be much better, we need to perform better, we need to be more professional, we need to care more. Our national team needs to be the purity talking. I think in too many points that we need to talk and I think to improve. I think sometime when you win, you win, you win. I think always you want to win, but sometimes in some defect, I think can help you to see the reality and to say if we want to be competitive and arrive in a good form in the World Cup, I think we need to change a little bit the approach that we are having with the team and the national team. And I think that I think was a knock on the door to say pay attention that we need to change because if not we can lose.
- [04:21]
Tim Howard
Yes.
- [04:22]
Mauricio Pochettino
That is not the way that we need to compete.
- [04:25]
Tim Howard
Right.
- [04:26]
Landon Donovan
And we'll touch on the roster building of the Gold Cup. But you talked about the country being behind the team and the fans being behind the team. What makes it different about playing a World cup on your home soil? Is there more pressure with that? Do the players recognize how important that is to play at home during a World Cup?
- [04:43]
Tim Howard
Yeah. Because Argentina, you were probably five or six years old.
- [04:47]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yes.
- [04:47]
Tim Howard
When the World cup happened.
- [04:49]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [04:50]
Tim Howard
So what's. Yeah. What is that? We didn't get to experience it. You know, we wanted to play on our homes. Yeah. So what is that about? How do you think that's going to translate?
- [04:58]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, I think it's going to be. I feel the responsibility and we all feel the responsibility. I think we try to translate. Not all the. The whole stuff. I Think the responsibility in the same time, knowing that it's soccer or football is about to enjoy. It's about to not to put too much pressure on the player. Because the player needs to perform and more freedom. And if they are happy and they can express their talent. But I think, yes, of course it's a massive pressure. Because I think the mentality and the culture of this country is about to win. If we analyze not only in the sport, okay, maybe we can go no, in Olympic Games USA always is. If not the first is the right, the second first, but it's the first always is the best. Financial side politics and everything is. I think the size of this country. I think put you in a position that you need to deliver your job. You need to show that you are brave, that you are a winner. But not talking like I am talking now, because it's easy to talk. But the most important is go and to show and show on the pitch. When you need to defend your flag there fighting and being a team, that is the moment to say, yes, we have quality. I am good player. But now it's about to defend your country. And I seen when the athletes in different sport or Olympic Games. I think you can show that. I think in soccer, I think we need to reduce this gap. And I think we need to really believe that it's possible. But at the same time, we need to be able to do the effort. Because that is the most important thing. Because sometimes we can say, yes, I want to do the effort. But after you need to show that you want to do the effort. And that is a problem sometimes that the confusion is I am professional, I care, I am commitment. Yeah, but who settled the line of the commitment effort. And that is the important thing. Because maybe for me, big commitment in this line is good, but it's not enough to compete with another country or with another player or you know, being professional. What means to be that is important. Under our experience. We are here not to change the culture, because your culture is amazing. The most important is to try to be here and to build some themes and ideas, some philosophy to say, yes, that is a way to compete and to match the other big countries. Because I think that is the culture of the country. That is why I'm not agreeing. When the people say, oh, we need to change the culture. What means to change the culture? It's not to eat burger. No, no, no. And I think we are all different. It's like I go to England and say, no, we need to change the culture. Or you need to change the culture. No, you need to adapt to the culture of the country. Knowing the people, knowing the player. Of course, that the generation is changing, football is evolving and you know, we cannot compare. Maybe when we were a player that now in the current time. But I think always adapting, but with respect in the culture. And then, you know, giving your best to compete. It's so simple, but really difficult to translate to the after to the pitch.
- [08:24]
Tim Howard
The previous manager here, Greg Burhalter, said we want to change the way the world thinks about soccer in America and thinks about the US how does the rest of. Because you are Argentinian, you lived in London for a long time, you coached in Spain. How does the rest of the world now view us today? Right. And I know it's changed over time. How would you describe that?
- [08:45]
Mauricio Pochettino
Always? I am really honest and seeing your, you know, podcast always. Because when I have time, I can. Of course you don't have time. No, but yes, I always. I find time, you know. And I think it's important to understand that that soccer here is. I think we have good example not to to follow. I seen the women team four time winners of the World Cup. The mentality and the belief. I talk a lot with Emma. We have good example there. How we are seen as the player of the soccer here is that is improving a lot. When people say no, but Mle. But we have the best player in the world playing here, Messi. And Messi, when playing football is difficult for him because I think it's very competitive, the MLS and all. I think sometimes people underestimate the mlse, but I think the player. Now that we are involved in the last year, watching a lot of football and seeing all the coaches here and the preparation and the capacity and the quality. I think we cannot talk easy about, you know, to say oof. But I think it's about also to reduce this gap that I think we need to be honest and say that when you think in usa you think about athletes in Olympic Games, basketball, nfla, hockey, baseball and then soccer. It's difficult to fight with this idea. What we need to do is to provide all the tools to our player to help them to perform better. Today we have plenty of players playing abroad of usa. But the most important thing is the culture. I think that we saw in you that to be desperate to come and be the priority the national team. And maybe that gap was about to grow. Maybe not thinking in this way. And that is a responsibility of us that the people need to prioritize the national team. We Were talking about Argentine player or Brazilian player, or English player, or Spanish player. The they are desperate. Even Messi, even Neymar, even Mbappe for France, these guys are desperate to go to the national team. And for them, when they go, they don't see if it's a friendly game, it's an official game, it's a World cup, doesn't matter. Because the possibility to defend one time, one time more, your flag, your shirt is about to feel proud. No, about that. And that is the responsibility to us to translate. I was talking before with the manager here at the hotel because he said what I can do to translate to the player when I arrive, this passion, because I seen in the way that you were talking with me, you motivated me, you inspires me.
- [11:31]
Tim Howard
He was proud of his job.
- [11:32]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yes, exactly. No, very proud. And that's it. That is what we need, is to feel proud, to feel the passion, to be desperate, to play, to put the ego. When you arrive to the national team outside, I think that is the most important thing. I think that is our responsibility.
- [11:47]
Landon Donovan
You talked about after the Nations League, you talked about wanting to fight for your country, for your flag, and then now you touched on prioritizing and how the big players always need to prioritize the national team. You've not been in a job a long time. Is that something that surprised you early on? That you're so used to big players picking their national team as a priority and yet it seems as if sometimes some of our players aren't necessarily seeing it as that priority.
- [12:18]
Mauricio Pochettino
Is that something that surprised you when things happen, I try always to not to blame the players, I think, because even when we didn't play well, I think we blame ourselves to say we didn't give all the tools, or maybe we were not clear, or our tactics or game plan wasn't good, or our method wasn't great, or I think we made a mistake because rather to train in the morning, we train in the afternoon. No. Yes. I think we try to. Not to try to blame ourselves. And I think to arrive in one year time and the player to feel in the way that we want it, that they can feel, or I think the possibility that they can feel in this way is our responsibility. And it's up to us because it's in the way that we are going to coach, in the way that we are going to communicate, in the way that. I don't want to use teach, because I think teach is a massive word not to teach, but I think through our examples to try for them to realize because they are so intelligent and what happened in the past and why we arrive in this moment, in this type of situation is not to blame the players because I think we need to evolve. And that is also our moment with all the coaching stuff in the world is to evolve with the new generation of our kids, you know, our. And that is so important. I think they are intelligent enough to realize. But sometimes they need to make a mistake. They need to make a mistake to say, oh, I was wrong. Sometimes you can tell. You can tell. You can tell.
- [14:02]
Tim Howard
Say, oh, like with your kids.
- [14:04]
Mauricio Pochettino
Always happen in our career, we say, oh, this coach was. Was right. Yes. But I thought I was wrong in this moment.
- [14:11]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Mauricio Pochettino
And we try to accelerate this process to say, oh, realize before. Yeah, yeah. We leave the. No, you. Because maybe five years after you say, oh, he was wrong. But the opportunity. We missed the opportunity to perform. We missed the opportunity to make history. And I think we are in a moment now to make history and to translate different feelings and emotion to the. To the people and also to help the new generation that came. The kid that came, you know, that they are growing now. And seeing us like idols, I see grow in a different way, for sure. But in our, you know, this. In our mindset. No.
- [14:52]
Tim Howard
Yeah. So let's just dig in a little bit. So I'm not comparing Lionel Messi to Kristen Pulisic. Okay. But in America, our fans feel the same level of passion for the way he plays, plays at a big club. He's had an amazing year at Milan. You've already spoken publicly about Christian not coming to the Gold cup and what that was about as a staff and as a coach, when your best player decides not to go, how do you then transition to, okay, you know, we have to move on. There's nothing you can do now. How are you going to handle that internally with the team? How are you going to position the team moving forward through the Gold cup so that you can still be successful? Because obviously now one door closes, another door opens for someone else to come in. And I'm curious how you're processing that and how you're going to move forward.
- [15:38]
Mauricio Pochettino
First of all, I think Christian in the last year, I think was showing a great quality and he's performing, you know, in Europe and also he's performing here in the national team. He's a very talented player that can help us to win.
- [15:53]
Tim Howard
Of course. Of course.
- [15:54]
Mauricio Pochettino
And you say people compare Messi with Cristian Pulisic. I don't want to be disrespectful with Messi or with Pulisi or with Mesi. But I've seen in this country policy should be our message.
- [16:07]
Tim Howard
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:08]
Mauricio Pochettino
And because it's a iconic player and the kid on the street for sure. If you ask one soccer player in this country is Pulisic when you talk about if I feel disappointed or not, I think we have very good communication with our players. And Christian is a very nice, nice guy and it's very commitment with the national team and he want to help and of course he's desperate to play the World cup and arrive in the best condition. In all this conversation that we were taking with the player, I think that was, I think the best maybe decision to help him. Because every player are in different circumstances. And even if I want Christian here or another player here or Anthony or like this, and I think no one or another teammate is going to think badly about if I am saying that because I think also the team may respect Cristian and Antony like another player. But I think is sometimes you need to put the interest in maybe medium, long term than in the present. Because for me, after the march camp, I say, okay, I don't care about nothing. I want to win tomorrow and I want to win. That is the consequence after, you know, because I think we are all preparing the or focus on the World cup and sometimes we need to be open and flexible in some decision. When we talk about this type of decision for us, I think was a tough decision. Because I think we agree. No, because also was our idea. Was our decision on the end, you know, because on the end, if you say you need to come, but I think we cannot force the player to come. But I think I need to be fair and say was a collective decision, you know, to try to find the best for the national team and for the best for the player.
- [18:10]
Tim Howard
Right?
- [18:15]
Mauricio Pochettino
Foreign.
- [18:19]
Landon Donovan
The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.
- [18:25]
Tim Howard
Since 2019, Volkswagen has been on a mission to drive the future of the sport we all love. And VW is committed to making it more diverse, inclusive and accessible for everyone.
- [18:34]
Landon Donovan
They're not just talking about it, they're out there doing it. VW's partnerships, programs and soccer clinics are unlocking opportunities for for the next generation of players and fans.
- [18:44]
Tim Howard
As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly Powered by the people.
- [18:57]
Landon Donovan
Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting U.S. soccer@vw.com There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed that just isn't your team winning the championship. The weather being good on game day, your friends remembering who has the tickets. Some days you're just a goal scoring machine.
- [19:15]
Tim Howard
Yeah. And some days the ball just passes you by. Right here on Unfiltered soccer, we know that no matter how much you love the beautiful game, nothing on the field is guaranteed. Thankfully, AT&T is introducing a brand new guarantee. The AT&T guarantee.
- [19:29]
Landon Donovan
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- [19:36]
Tim Howard
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- [19:41]
Landon Donovan
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- [19:46]
Tim Howard
AT and T Connecting changes everything all right, Timmy. This used to be my favorite time of year. Playing all day outside as a kid. Summer, no school or playing during my career through the summer. The best times. Now it's the absolute worst. My kids are home. They're not exercising, their brains aren't getting used. They're annoying. Daddy this, daddy that. So I try to choose, chill as much as possible, Go for a walk, love to golf. My wife hates it. I'm gone all the time. Read. But I gotta chill, man.
- [20:19]
Mauricio Pochettino
I have to.
- [20:21]
Landon Donovan
I choose chill in the summer more than any other time. I'm in airports all the time, traveling, get through security, straight to the bar for a Coors Light. I love to chill out. Obviously in the summer, I'm on the beach, reaching the cooler Coors Light. And of course, summertime, you go to concerts, you go to music festivals. That's all you do. Me, some friends, a bunch of Coors Lights. Perfect time.
- [20:46]
Tim Howard
Well, that's good to know. I guess that's what I have to look forward to. Coors Light is mountain cold refreshment, crisp and refreshing. As the Colorado Rockies make the most out of the times you choose to chill. Choose Coors Light.
- [20:59]
Landon Donovan
Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit Coors Light.com USLNT Celebrate Responsibly Coors Brewing Co. Golden Colorado Beer so we talk about medium and long term planning or goals. Does it obstruct you in any way trying to build toward next summer not having potentially a bulk of your team together as you as you start to push through the Gold cup, use that competition as As a kind of a precursor to the World cup. With no World cup qualifying, which everyone talks about, is a huge issue. Does your staff and yourself see that as a problem?
- [21:36]
Mauricio Pochettino
People think that we don't have time because we start in October. And the reality we have two camps to be together and now was a great opportunity. And sometimes when we're talking about to change this culture and mentality, when people talk about that, when the player think that okay, if in the past we were not involved, it's because the World cup is not important. That is why it's so careful how we send the message and how they get the message, not the play. And some say no. Are you raised because the World cup we are going to have this list. A list is not going to be here is the B and the C and that's it. It's not a criticize to former people, but it's different. Wait for us in our ideas and in our philosophy. And that doesn't mean that we have more or less knowledge about the game, about. About the game, about soccer, about football. That is in the way that you want to approach. Because I think I know very well and we know very well the psychology of the. The mindset of the player and sometimes the player. They assume that that is normal. I am so happy. I'm so, so excited of the group that we are going to have. And of course waiting for the future that all the players will be available to have the possibility to select the best player for the World Cup. Knowing that I think we need to be better, compete better and improve in all the areas that I think we need to improve.
- [23:00]
Tim Howard
Is your priority now for the Gold cup evaluating or we have to win, win, win this Gold cup. Right. Because on the back of Nations League it's not successful. Now do you feel like shoot, we need to win or is the. Are you seeing near future but also seeing the big picture?
- [23:15]
Mauricio Pochettino
I think we need to win. We need to win because I feel so bad. So shit. That is the war when we lose against Panama and then the second game was okay, how was. But in the same time, in the parallel way, I think it's a great opportunity for too many players to show we are here and we want to fight for a place in the World cup with the national team and say I come perform in Philadelphia, I can perform in Vancouver, I can perform in Columbus. But also I can perform in the national team and I can perform with the big size. And I think if the player I think came now with this mentality to say hey, we are not here for holidays. We are here to try, you know, to show the coach that they we are here because we care and we want to win and we want to compete in our best. I seen is going to be a very exciting moment, you know, to see them and then to compete to win the World Cup.
- [24:14]
Landon Donovan
You've talked about MLS and it being a strong league. How important is it to you that your players are playing? Because I think we see around some of the players who are in Europe maybe not playing the same amount of minutes as it goes into the next year in terms of selection and certainly for the World Cup, I would imagine it's vitally important to you that your players are playing big minutes, whether it's in MLS or not.
- [24:36]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, exactly. I was talking some example like Matt Turner and I think after, you know, a period, long period that he didn't play. I seen we were talking about the necessity to play because we cannot give all the tools in few days preparing him to compete. No, and in the competition, that the competition provides some, you know, capacity. Knowing only your confidence, you know, in your timings and everything that you know that is important not only with training session. Okay. If you know, play and come here to training sessions. We have the. The secret or the magic touch that you can play if you compete during a long period. And I think the good thing that he was conscious about that and I think another player that we were talking that maybe not played too much with the possibility to move and to find a place that can compete, even if it's maybe lower level, but thinking always in the benefit for the. For the national team. Yes, that is a thing that we are talking and we are very open and we know not scared or we don't have fears to talk with the player in this type of subject. That is sometimes painful because you need to tell some player, look, you need to play at the moment. Okay, so far all is good because I think we are checking your character, your personality, your capacity to be leader, the leadership that you have. But in some point to be a leadership is about to. You need to compete after to have the right to express your talent and to talk with your teammate. That I think is really important for us. That is why I think was time in the last few months and now is a time also to talk with the players still that are in this situation to try to help or to advise in the best way.
- [26:32]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. As a follow up to that, you mentioned Matt Turner. So how are you. How are you feeling about the goalkeeper situation? If we looked at Zach Steffen and Matt Turner, in my opinion, they're the best two that we have. But you obviously have a bunch of goalkeepers in the pool. How do you feel that they're progressing and putting themselves in terms of the best to start?
- [26:51]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, I think now is the moment to. I seem to show because on the end it's a fighting between them, you know, to show I am the number one. It's true that disappointed because sometimes the player suffers some injury and we cannot give the opportunity, you know, like Patrick Schulte. For me it's a signal that is going to be very natural. The selection, because it's about that for sure that is going to be good. The two friendly games and the Goga. Because I think we have the opportunity to see different, you know, opportunities, different keeper. But I think I am not worried about that because like you say, we have quality also in behind we have. Yeah. You know, another keeper that come. Come perform.
- [27:43]
Tim Howard
I want a big picture. Let's assume every player is healthy and you're in. Let's take you ahead to the World cup and it's the first game and it's halftime. You're down a goal to whoever and you need a leader or a couple leaders to step up and get a message that you're feeling through to the group on the field right now. Who are those players? And I know it will change potentially over time, but even maybe right now, who is like, you need a message and you need the team to turn right now. Who is it that you. That you can count on to do that?
- [28:21]
Mauricio Pochettino
I think for the circumstance that when we arrived to October, I think the picture change in the national team and I think in the way that we like to translate the message, in the way that we are open and to give the opportunity to all the players to step up and show the character. Because we don't want to assume that because four years ago someone was captain, some player was captain. Now should be the captain because the sequels have changed, you know, and seeing we're changing in years, I seen we are very open and we are giving the opportunity to the group and the player that are involved in this type of group and say, oh, come on, show me, show me.
- [29:12]
Tim Howard
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:13]
Mauricio Pochettino
Because I don't want to say no. Because you were the captain, now you are the captain. For me, it's a little bit a process. Natural. Natural process that I am. We are feeling know the player. Because sometimes some player can surprise you.
- [29:27]
Tim Howard
Yes.
- [29:27]
Mauricio Pochettino
You know, and come step up and say, oh, that is the leader and say, oh, I never. But if you don't give the opportunity and you create the platform to. For them to that appear, it's difficult because, yes, we can go with a normal. No names. They say, okay, this guy play here. Okay, he's the captain. Like this. And then, you know, I think the most important thing is to see in a spontaneous way, who step up when the scene are wrong, when the stress is there, when the pressure is there, you know, who step up and say, hey, I am here.
- [30:03]
Landon Donovan
It's interesting you said about players as surprised. We had Diego Luna on our podcast a couple weeks ago, and I think he surprised us as well. He's got a tough mentality.
- [30:13]
Mauricio Pochettino
I didn't watch. I need to watch.
- [30:15]
Landon Donovan
It's fine. He's got a tough mentality. And I just wonder, going back to the January camp and everything that happened there, did he surprise you? Did his mentality shine through?
- [30:26]
Mauricio Pochettino
It's not surprising me. It's like after many years working with players, you smell that can happen something. And when Diego in the game in Orlando, received an elbow in his nose, I saw he was like this blood.
- [30:46]
Tim Howard
He finally looked handsome for a while.
- [30:48]
Mauricio Pochettino
No. The doctor said to me, but he said, coach, I want to play.
- [30:54]
Landon Donovan
That's what you want.
- [30:55]
Mauricio Pochettino
Because I said, yeah, but it's a friendly game. I said, diego, it's a friend. Diogo, it's a friendly game. Your nose. I didn't want to worry him, but I was like, scared. Nobody was like this. But it was amazing. And he convinced the doctor. Doctor, I can play if you allow me to play. I want to play, Coach, I want to play. And then in the halftime, we'll see. And then go fight. Yeah. Crash with one guy after one was. And then take the ball, assist. That is what I want for sure.
- [31:28]
Landon Donovan
That's what you want.
- [31:28]
Mauricio Pochettino
It's not. Ciao. Yeah, ciao. No, that is what I want. That is the mentality. That is that you feel that the player played. No for nothing more than the pride a player to defend the chair to.
- [31:45]
Tim Howard
That's what you're used to in Argentina, right?
- [31:47]
Mauricio Pochettino
I was like, I played because of that, not because of my quality.
- [31:52]
Tim Howard
It's been fun. It's going to be fun to watch him grow and see how he continues to do. Okay, I want to just a couple more and thank you for being so gracious with your time. We just want to do a couple fun ones because we certainly American fans are still getting to know you and so they want to know just your perspective. On big picture, global football. So you were part of a lot of big rivalries. And then you grew up in Argentina. So from your perspective, biggest rivalry of these three. Spurs, Arsenal, Espanol, Barcelona, Boca River. I think it's easy for you, huh?
- [32:27]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, the three are really tough because I grew in Argentina. River, Boca, for me was the massive.
- [32:34]
Tim Howard
I don't think American fans understand that that game or that rivalry. It's. I mean, you know, experts. Arsenal is. But that game is.
- [32:43]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yeah, but that game is crazy.
- [32:44]
Tim Howard
It's crazy.
- [32:45]
Mauricio Pochettino
And then. Because divide a country.
- [32:48]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [32:48]
Mauricio Pochettino
Because in Argentina happened that you are. You have one team and then Boca River. You know, that is the difference with another maybe country in Argentina is like a. Is divided between two. No, divide the. The country and river and Boca is. And then you have another club.
- [33:10]
Tim Howard
Right?
- [33:10]
Mauricio Pochettino
This is. That is amazing scene. If you think.
- [33:13]
Tim Howard
You mean you'll. You'll be a fan of another club, but then you have. Then you pick one of.
- [33:17]
Mauricio Pochettino
I don't know. Yes, exactly. And then I support more river or I support Boca. It's like crazy crazy because they are so big, these two.
- [33:27]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. For me that's one of the best rivalries is Boca River.
- [33:30]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yeah. And then I grew up there. And that's why for me it was an impact for me.
- [33:36]
Landon Donovan
So is this an easy question for you? If I asked you who's the greatest Argentine player of all time? Is it simple?
- [33:43]
Mauricio Pochettino
It's emotional? Answer for me. Maradona was my hero. And it's difficult for Messi to fight with my hero. No. In a position of mine. But I think both are amazing. But Maradona is because emotional. Because when I was a kid grow. No. And that emotion that you build inside yourself, that is for the rest of your life, but messy. What we can say about it.
- [34:16]
Landon Donovan
Everything okay.
- [34:17]
Tim Howard
At any time during your life. This is. This is a good one. In any Argent. Let's say any art, just to make it interesting. Any Argentinian World cup squad from 78 through today, could Tim and or me have made the roster on any of them. You can be honest, you won't hurt our feelings.
- [34:41]
Landon Donovan
Emmy Martinez. Now I'm not making it. It's okay. It's fine.
- [34:44]
Tim Howard
But maybe as the third. Yeah, no, for me he can carry the water bottles.
- [34:48]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, but maybe I am wrong, but for me you are in the top five. Sure. Or top ten in. In the history. No, for sure, top one.
- [34:59]
Tim Howard
Top ten.
- [35:00]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, but I seen you were great players. And I think you. You if you rather to. Born here, born there. I Think you play for sure in the national team?
- [35:10]
Tim Howard
I think so.
- [35:11]
Mauricio Pochettino
For sure. This is what I. I saw under my judgment, it's not because you are here. Yeah, but I think a few months ago they asked me about, you know, the player, USA player and my to pick my best player. And I include you.
- [35:27]
Landon Donovan
Thank you. Myself.
- [35:28]
Mauricio Pochettino
Thank you. No, but it's not because now we are here and oh, I come to be nice because you were good and then you were tough and the type of player I seen always I said to. In England, some players said Adam Lalana, Adam Lalana. When we arrived to South Canton.
- [35:50]
Landon Donovan
Oh my God, yes.
- [35:51]
Mauricio Pochettino
And then he moved to Liverpool. I said, you can be an Argentino and a Spanish player. If you rather born here, you're born in Spain, you play with Messi, with Iniesta, with Xavi, you can fit to play. And that is the case of you. You know for sure, you.
- [36:06]
Tim Howard
We're getting this on camera, right? I've got to show everyone I know.
- [36:09]
Landon Donovan
Last one from me. I go through your list of players you've coached and it's Messi, Mbappe, Neymar, Kane, some others. And I just think it's incredible the places you've been to coach and the people you've coached. Is it fair for me to ask you who's the greatest player you've ever coached? I mean, we know Messi is probably the greatest, but I mean, I look at what Mbappe has done in the game.
- [36:31]
Mauricio Pochettino
No, it's not. If you say Messi, of course he.
- [36:34]
Tim Howard
Says, okay, let's put him aside. After him, after, after him.
- [36:39]
Mauricio Pochettino
No Neymar, Hurricane, so on. But also always I include two players, Musa Dembele, midfielder, Belgium, that play in Toterang.
- [36:51]
Tim Howard
Everyone says that about him special.
- [36:53]
Mauricio Pochettino
And even De La Pena, because we can just say, I don't know, you talk about talented player, you know, like Okocha that I play with. Okay, Koch or Ronaldinho. But these two guys for me were the, they. They had the, the. The talent, amazing talent in the same level that the, the player that we are talking.
- [37:13]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [37:14]
Mauricio Pochettino
Always they say, oh, is.
- [37:15]
Landon Donovan
Is.
- [37:15]
Mauricio Pochettino
The people say to me, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the La Pena and, and even De La Pena, that. I don't know if you remember the. Of course, the Buddha, the Petite Buddha, they say, because that's amazing. And, and then Musa and Belay, the what a talented, amazing. Yes. But the rest, of course is easy to.
- [37:35]
Landon Donovan
Thank you.
- [37:36]
Tim Howard
All right, well, last thing, thank you. First of all, I think on behalf of everybody, all, all American soccer fans, it's great. Now get to know you a little bit better, get to understand your thinking. We can do this for three hours, but you have things to do. We're very grateful. We are trying to find optimism. Right. And you've spoken to it and there's been some disappointments along the way, but we're all hoping, as fans of soccer, football in this country, that this happens.
- [38:05]
Mauricio Pochettino
Nah. But for sure, for sure. Players, staff, federation, fans, of course, you are part of the family, too, because your legacy is there. We are going to arrive in a very good shape to the World cup ready to compete and to, I think, to maybe enjoy the fans and to the fans to feel proud and, you know, defend in the best way our country.
- [38:30]
Landon Donovan
We're honored to have you. So thank you.
- [38:32]
Mauricio Pochettino
Best of luck, Mauricio.
- [38:34]
Tim Howard
Thank you. And we have optimism again. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was a lot. Very grateful to Mauricio Pochettino for taking the time. And my takeaway, Tim, I mean, I have a lot, but he gets it. Like, he sees what's going on and he's obviously going to be careful about how he's speaking. He used the word prioritize a lot. He said, make this a priority. And my biggest takeaway, I think, overall, and there's some other smaller ones, is he came from Argentina. He grew up in Argentina. The idea of a player not wanting to play for their national team must blow his mind. He must be like, this is crazy. You don't want to come play for your national team. Because he knows what that means to the country. So that's my overall biggest takeaway.
- [39:25]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, I mean, it was really nice to sit with him. I do think he gets it. And we always put that in air quotes. And what I think that means to me is we as fans get frustrated with the team at times about the setup. We question some things. And from being around him, both on and off camera, I get the sense that he shares a lot of those same frustrations and that he realizes that he can only control so much by getting these players, you know, this. This summer, he gets them for five weeks. Why we think the Gold cup is so important. But ultimately, he gets these players for 10, 10 days or less. And so he's trying to figure out ways to not dwell on what he can't do, but try and fix what he can. And he talked about it very openly. It's not his job to change the culture. It's not his job to change the culture. And that currently, the system that these players have been in probably for the last six years has been one that has been, for lack of a better term, comfortable. And I think to his point, when you give a player an opportunity to be comfortable, you take it. Unless you get a real dog who just is gonna push themselves outside of something extraordinary, you're going to take that opportunity. He mentioned in his quotes a few weeks back, like, this culture of being able to come in and golf and no more golf. And it's obviously part of a bigger. A bigger issue, but it's not his job to change that. It's on the players to do that. And so that was an interesting part of it for me. But he certainly understands the challenge.
- [41:16]
Tim Howard
I believe him. Now, I said this to you before last week, maybe, but I do believe him now that he's saying, all right, I'm not doing away with these players, right? These are good, talented players, these players who are declining to come in, whatever. But he is saying, if someone else takes the job and you. The way you say it is great. Like, well, he said it, too. Get the opportunity in this camp to come into the next camp, and in that camp, the opportunity to come into the next. And that's how it is in Argentina. He said it with big players, they're just trying to get into the next camp, right?
- [41:48]
Mauricio Pochettino
Earn.
- [41:49]
Landon Donovan
Earning the right to play the next camp.
- [41:50]
Tim Howard
And some of the American guys this summer are thinking. Some of our guys are thinking, I'm thinking about the World Cup. And he's like, hey, hold on a sec. There's no guarantee you're going to the World cup, right? And so for. For other guys coming into camp this. This summer in the Gold cup, this is a huge opportunity. And in past, in past iterations, with past coaches, guys probably would have been like, I got no chance. Like, I know I'm part of the B team and all that, but these guys have a chance.
- [42:14]
Landon Donovan
That's the, that's the, the thing that he mentioned to us, right, was this concept of A team and B team. He mentioned their A list and B list. And what that does is it kind of infiltrates the mindset of players. You just know I'm an A player or you just know I'm on the B list. And he's trying to do away with that. And he and his staff have tried to do a good job of. Of taking that away, trying to put people on level, level playing fields or level footing. And I said to you last week, and I. And I meant it. Like, I don't necessarily know if this Gold cup presents opportunities for guys to maybe surpass some of the A listers. But I feel a little bit more encouraged by that, that after speaking to him and having lunch with him and spending time with him here, that I think guys will get opportunities. I think he does. Look, the one thing he said, and he's made clear he was very disappointed with the Nations League and how it finished, and that he is going to drive this team, particularly in the summer months in the Gold cup, he's going to change his attitude a little bit. He's going to push these guys and that it should hurt. And so, look, I think there's opportunities there. Again, I don't think it's. I don't think it's a bunch of opportunities, but I think for a handful of guys, the Gold cup creates a huge summer for them, that if they can show well, they can fight so that they. That it means something that hurts. I think those guys will get chances.
- [43:38]
Mauricio Pochettino
Yeah.
- [43:38]
Tim Howard
He also said before we get out of here, he said we have to win the Gold cup and that. And he. He's very. So for fans who are discouraged and thinking, oh, I'm not even going to pay attention to the Gold cup now, I'm like, okay, I want to watch now. I want to see. I want to see what that looks like through his lens, who he plays, how he plays them, etc.
- [43:55]
Landon Donovan
So, yeah, absolutely.
- [43:57]
Tim Howard
All right. Amazing. Thanks again to Mauricio Pochettino. I'm hopeful that we will get him on the show again before the World Cup. This was a very successful trip. As always, thanks to all you guys for supporting us. It's been amazing.
- [44:10]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. Thank you to Mauricio for his time, to US Soccer for helping set it up and for their support. We are certainly excited and optimistic. Thank you to vw, our presenting sponsor. An incredible, incredible episode. We hope you enjoy it. Give us all your feedback. We'll see you soon.
- [44:31]
Tim Howard
It.