Tom Bogert on Breaking Soccer News, and the USMNT Give Fans the Soccer Blues

Summary

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Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan & Tim Howard

Episode Summary: Tom Bogert on Breaking Soccer News, and the USMNT Give Fans the Soccer Blues

Date: September 9, 2025
Guests: Tom Bogert (Reporter, Give Me Sport Soccerwise/CBS Sports)

Overview

In this episode, Landon Donovan and Tim Howard dive deep into the simmering anxieties surrounding the US Men’s National Team (USMNT) following a disheartening 0-2 loss to South Korea, dissect the broader trajectory leading up to the 2026 World Cup, and then shift gears with special guest Tom Bogert—one of American soccer’s top journalists—for an inside look at breaking soccer news in the U.S. and honest opinions on the current state of the national program.

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Main Themes & Discussion Points

1. Dissecting the USMNT’s Latest Struggles [02:18 – 29:48]

Context:

• USMNT's 0-2 Loss to South Korea at Sports Illustrated Stadium, New Jersey.
• Michael Bradley honored pre-game for his career and leadership.

Key Discussion Points:

• Troubling Run of Results:

  • 6 losses and 5 wins in last 11 games; last time with similar form was post-2014 World Cup—but against much tougher opposition then.
  • USMNT has lost 5 straight against FIFA Top 25 teams, winless in 7, outscored 17-3 (Paul Carr stat, [04:00]).
  • Last win vs top-25 (excluding Mexico): Iran, 2022 World Cup.

• Leadership Vacuum & Team Identity:

  • The generational transition post-2018 World Cup qualifying failure led to young players thrown in without enough veteran guidance.
  • Donovan: “When I was 20, going into my World Cup year... Greg Berhalter was there, Jeff Agoos was there... these guys kicked the shit out of me, dude. ...This group has had none of that. They've had nobody hold them accountable internally...” [11:02]
  • Tim Ream and Tyler Adams seen as possible leaders, but more “nastiness” and accountability needed across the group.

• Lack of “Moxie” in Big Games:

  • Tim Howard: “There’s something with this team that they don’t have. I don’t know, the moxie. They don’t have something to win the big games. That’s not an opinion. That’s what they’re showing us.” [05:17]
  • Donovan: “It’s the blind leading the blind... chaos ensues.” [11:06]

• Clinical Edge & Striker Dilemma:

  • South Korea’s top talent, Son, took his chances; US’s finishing remains lacking, with striker issues persisting post-Jozy Altidore.
  • Comparison of Josh Sargent and Folarin Balogun (Flo):
    Balogun clearly the best option, Sargent’s club form not translating to international stage—a “levels” issue.

Notable Quote:

• Landon Donovan: “This is just where we are... I hate to say it that bluntly, but we have to be honest.” [17:10]

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2. Guest Segment: Tom Bogert on Soccer Journalism & the State of the USMNT [34:23 – 57:18]

Tom Bogert’s Journey:

• Started as a D3 player, early realization he wouldn’t go pro. Found his calling in soccer journalism, especially breaking news and building relationships with sources ([36:33]).
• Emphasizes accuracy and trust: “If you’re wrong once, it is irreparable damage.” ([39:55])

Inside Soccer Newsbreaking:

• Relies on multiple, trusted sources and relationship-building rather than clout.
• Explains why clubs leak info: visibility, marketing, spin, and relationships.

View on US Men’s Soccer (Fan and Analyst Perspective):

• Mood: “Sometimes it’s ambivalence, sometimes it’s apathy. It is rarely optimistic and positive at the moment.” ([49:07])
• Disappointing competitive record (Pochettino era: 7 losses in 15 FIFA-window games outside January camp).
• Lack of identity: “You guys tell me, what is one defining stylistic feature that this team is trying to accomplish? ...I can't see one defining thing.” ([49:54])
• Most damning: Recent US teams rarely play “beyond the sum of their parts.” ([50:44])

Listener Confirmation:

• Bogert confirms that amongst “friends and fans,” the consensus is similar frustration about lack of fight, style, and optimism.

Coaching/Personnel Questions:

• Ongoing experimentation and lack of continuity with starting XI, especially center-back pairings and midfield roles; repeated calls for Weston McKennie’s recall as a core piece ([55:03]).

Notable Quote:

• Tom Bogert: “When was the last time the national team has played beyond the sum of his parts?” [50:44]

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3. Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tim Howard on Leadership: “Certain players within that team need to step up and be counted and stand out. Because, by the way, you will stand out in a very good, positive way.” [17:10]
• Landon Donovan on Experiments: “Why would we waste an opportunity against a good team... Why would we experiment?” [24:13]
• On Pochettino’s Optimism:
  • “He’s basically saying, I ain't had my best team together... But when we get to that World Cup, I'm going to have my best team. And I believe him. Here's the problem. I don’t know what that best team can do. ...Because we haven't had our best team together.” – Tim Howard [26:22]
• Tom Bogert’s Journalism Ethos: “A healthy amount of anxiety is what I try to operate with.” [39:55]

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4. Fan Questions & Listener Mailbag [62:35 – 77:59]

Topics Covered:

• Travel-Fatigue Myths: Both Landon and Tim debunk travel as an excuse for sluggishness. Elite athletes must adapt; global standard is to recover, not just Americans ([66:33]).
• Crowd Support & Ticket Prices:
  • Korean fans dominated at the stadium; USSF ultimately cares about attendance, not demographics ([71:34]).
• Youth System & Pay-to-Play:
  • Both hosts passionately argue the US youth soccer model is “flat broke”; rampant pay-to-play and coddling destroy the pipeline for talented, gritty players ([75:35]).
• Optimistic Notes:
  • Even given the negativity, the hosts hope for a turnaround. “Sports are funny, man. One good result, one good performance can turn things around.” – Landon Donovan [78:04]

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5. Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:18 – Full dissection of USMNT performance vs. South Korea
• 10:14 – Generational leadership void and its effects
• 16:26 – South Korea’s clinical finishing vs. USMNT’s inefficiency
• 18:45 – Deep dive: USMNT striker dilemma
• 24:13 – Frustration with ongoing “experimentation” in friendlies
• 34:23 – Tom Bogert joins the show, breaks down the art of soccer reporting
• 49:07 – Tom Bogert’s honest state-of-the-program assessment
• 62:35 – Listener mailbag: travel, home support, and the US youth system

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• Honest, Unfiltered Critique: The episode lives up to its title—Donovan and Howard, both alumni and fans, offer a blunt if empathetic assessment: the USMNT is running out of time, inspiration, and identity as the World Cup approaches.
• Passion & Accountability: The absence of veteran leadership and that famous USMNT “chip on the shoulder” is repeatedly lamented.
• Expert Insider Perspective: Bogert’s segment is a highlight—valuable both for aspiring journalists and curious fans.
• Call to Action: The central plea is for players to step up and for those in charge—from Pochettino to U.S. Soccer HQ—to put the best team forward, foster accountability, and, above all, stop making excuses.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Tim Howard:

  • “They don’t have something to win the big games. ...That’s not an opinion. That’s what they’re showing us.” [05:17]
  • “Certain players within that team need to step up and be counted…” [17:10]

• Landon Donovan:

  • “This group has had none of that. They’ve had nobody hold them accountable internally…” [11:02]
  • “We just need a good response and a good performance and a result.” [30:12]

• Tom Bogert:

  • “Sometimes it’s ambivalence, sometimes it’s apathy. It is rarely optimistic and positive at the moment.” [49:07]
  • “When was the last time the national team has played beyond the sum of his parts.” [50:44]

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is essential listening for anyone invested in the fate of U.S. soccer heading into a home World Cup. Donovan and Howard lay bare the issues on and off the pitch: a lost identity, leadership vacuum, roster uncertainty, and a system still letting down its most committed players and fans. Tom Bogert adds expert context and transparency on how news about the USMNT really gets made.

Whether you’re frustrated, hopeful, or somewhere in between, this installment tells you exactly where the conversation stands—and why the next several months could define American soccer for the next decade.

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Transcript

[Tom Bogert]

You always played beyond the sum of your parts. When was the last time that a U.S. national team, not just under Pochettino, but previously. When's the last time the national team has played beyond the sum of the parts?

[Landon Donovan]

Unfiltered soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S. soccer for over five years.

[Tim Howard]

LD my guy. What's happening?

[Landon Donovan]

Hello.

[Tim Howard]

You see, I've got a different backdrop today. I'm at my place in Knoxville, Tennessee. I was down here watching some Lady Vols soccer. I was watching the Vols beat up on Eastern Tennessee State University. It was in the 70s or something. I would have taken the over no matter what it was. It was wild, but it was cool. It's cool to go to Neyland Stadium and see it.

[Landon Donovan]

You know, you can. They have these things called interior decorators and they'll come in and they'll like. They'll make your apartment or your house look like it's real livable.

[Tim Howard]

It's beautiful. It's just nice, clean.

[Landon Donovan]

Just that white back. What is that in the back? A white, white picture.

[Tim Howard]

It's a plain canvas. And then. And then when you get inspired, you paint on it.

[Landon Donovan]

Shut up. No way. That's stupid. Hey, do you like my jersey? Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

Which one is that?

[Landon Donovan]

Last time I went into the. I went into the closet back there and found.

[Tim Howard]

It's actually yours.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

Do you wash it or dry clean it?

[Landon Donovan]

Look.

[Tim Howard]

That's amazing.

[Landon Donovan]

No, but it took me a long time to steam this thing. It was wrinkled.

[Tim Howard]

Wait, where is that from?

[Landon Donovan]

Isn't it beautiful?

[Tim Howard]

I don't remember.

[Landon Donovan]

I don't remember the exact. Oh, it's got that no tread on me thing. Is that 2006? Could be. I love. This is by far my favorite jersey.

[Tim Howard]

Good for you.

[Landon Donovan]

It's cool, right?

[Tim Howard]

It's amazing.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, it's cool. All right.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, it's amazing. We have a really good, really good, fun, interesting guest today, which we're. We're pumped about and we'll intro him in a few. But we've got to dig in to this U.S. men's National Team result performance against South Korea. And where do you want to start? What's the jump off point? Because we. We've gotten a lot of. A lot of feedback, a lot of comments, questions and concerns.

[Landon Donovan]

So. Yeah, well, we have to start. So Jordan and Andrew. Don't kill me. Make sure you guys follow us social media at unfiltered soccer and subscribe Apple YouTube Spotify anywhere you get your podcasts. And then, as always, guessing there's a lot of questions in Jordan's mailbag. Feedback@unfiltered soccer.com okay. US 0, South Korea 2 at Sports Illustrated Stadium in New Harrison, New Jersey.

[Tim Howard]

Jersey, stand up.

[Landon Donovan]

Just shout out to our guy, M. Bradley, who was honored this week and before the game. And a shout out to US Soccer for honoring him phenomenal career. And it was really special for his family. His dad and mom were there, his grandparents were there. Really cool. So.

[Tim Howard]

And the interesting thing is, you have to say, probably the best leader that U.S. soccer has ever seen. A guy who didn't care about having tough conversations. He had hard knockdown, drag out conversations with his best friends, me and you. Other people led by example was always there, never took shortcuts. I mean, the guy will never get enough credit. And I told him, amen on the day, take your flowers and enjoy it. We don't do that enough as players. We put it on the shelf. We move forward. But accept, accept the, the adulation and adoration because he, he's one of the best to do it.

[Landon Donovan]

Amen. Congrats to you, Mikey. Okay, so we'll go all over the place. Um, that is, let. Let's just start big picture. So now that is six losses and five wins in the last 11 games for the U. S. I was texting our group chat when was the last time that happened? And by the way, one of those wins in quotes was against Costa Rica, which was a tie in the gold cup, but we won in penalties.

[Tim Howard]

Okay.

[Landon Donovan]

The last time that happened, we went back and look, Andrew found for us was 2014, right after the World Cup. I don't have all the opponents in front of us, but it was like Colombia, Brazil. It was good opponents, right? It was not Haiti and Saudi Arabia and Jamaica and Panama. So anyway, we're always trying, Tim. We're trying to spin this somewhat positively and optimistically, but we have to be real, man. Like, we have to be honest. If this happened in a vacuum, played well, maybe could have, should have won the game against South Korea, fine. But on the back of everything else that's going on, Paul Carr tweeted on Twitter, we've now lost five straight games versus FIFA top 25 teams by a combined 11 to 1 goals against or winless. Now, in seven straight such games, getting outscored 17 to 3, this one blew my mind. Excluding Mexico, the last US win versus a top 25 team was at the 2022 World Cup. And by the way, that top 25, amazing strong team was Iran. Right. It wasn't like Brazil or whatever. So anyway, just go ahead. We'll just start there and then we'll dig in.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, look, I'm the same as you. There's an optimism around this team because there's a World cup and it's coming to our country and we just simply, as soccer fans, get excited. But when you begin to dissect some of these numbers and stats, it's. There's not a, there's not a ton to get excited about. And, you know, I came after the game as we do, we, we think about what was good, what was bad, all the different things. And I said to a friend, I said, when a team loses two, nothing, don't really talk about the team who lost, talk about the team who won. But in this instance, because it's who we are and what we do, we're going to talk about it. But there's something with this team that they don't have. I don't know, the moxie. They don't have something to win the big games. That's not an opinion. That's what they're showing us.

[Landon Donovan]

And, well, this is just a middle game. It's not a big game. Right, right, right.

[Tim Howard]

And so, so much of this exercise of build up to the World cup, sometimes we pick the bones out of it too much or sometimes it's fluff. But ultimately the World cup is about winning big games. It's about navigating, not always winning, but navigating your way through difficult moments. I mean, if you look back on all your World Cups and all my World Cups, I would say the one, the one takeaway was how do we get through difficult moments? One, how do we persevere in difficult moments? And if you can't persevere, how the hell do you hang on for dear life? Right? Like, that's essentially what we do. And this team just hasn't really quite shown the ability to do that in the bigger games. In the bigger games, I'm going to, you know, I'll, I'll blanket that by just saying top 25 teams in the world.

[Landon Donovan]

Right.

[Tim Howard]

The, the teams that are, that are really going to matter, they haven't shown that ability. So.

[Landon Donovan]

And what is that, Tim? Like, it's, it's easy for us to say because that is the truth. Yeah, but what is it? And I have some theories and like, I want to hear what you. What, what is that again?

[Tim Howard]

There's a collective togetherness that, you know, I'm not On. I'm not on the inside. I'm not having those tough conversations in the locker room. I don't know if there's a. There's enough of a nastiness about this team. And let's face it, let's face it. This beautiful. The best teams in the world that play beautiful football, name them Brazil, Barcelona, Argentina, Man City. There's a nastiness about those teams, by the way. Forget the passing and intricate moves and the Pep Guardiola tactics. There's a nastiness about those teams, and certain players have that, but collectively, I don't think we do. And I think that has to be a foundation of your group. I don't know if the quality is there. Top to bottom, I love. Which is this is going to be an overriding theme in this conversation and others going forward. I love our best team. So if you're saying, what's our best team? I could name it. I could say these are the best players positionally that I want to see on the field. I love our best team. The problem is, and this is what some of the proponents would say is we haven't had our best team together. Right. To see how they perform in multiple big games. I would agree with that. That's a problem that we haven't had our best players together for various reasons. I think it's unacceptable that U.S. soccer hasn't demanded that we have our best players together to give the guy who's making that you've given $6 million to the best opportunity to win. And so that's a problem. Your take.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah. And some of that is out of Pochettino's control. Correct. With injuries, et cetera. Correct. But a lot of it's not, Tim. Like, there have been moments, all, I mean, from Pochettino's first game, real game, in March of last year, to have the full team together, and they've not. Now, in his defense, because he hasn't lived and breathed it here his whole life, he has no idea who some of these players are. Right. I can promise you, whenever he took this job a year and a half ago, he had no idea who Sebastian Berhalter was. Right. And no disrespect to Sebastian, but he just didn't. Right. He had no idea. And so he's learning along the way. I want to go back to something, Tim, you said. And I thought this was. I don't know when you said it on the pod, but it was so profound. And I'd never thought about this this way after the 2018, failure to qualify for the World Cup. You said U.S. soccer made a decision that basically all of you guys were old, couldn't cut it anymore, and it was just out, out.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And we're just gonna bring in all young players and let them grow and develop on the surface. In theory, you're like, okay, I can see that. Like, we need a reboot. We gotta shift everything, change the momentum, get people excited again. I get it. But what happened was. Massive void in leadership. And when I was coaching for a while, you. You realize quickly that when a team has a void in leadership, chaos or anybody think about countries around the world. When there's a void in leadership, chaos ensues. And there was a void in leadership. Now, I'm not talking about the coach, Burhalter, necessarily. I'm talking about the players. And so when you have, you know, Christian and Tyler and Weston and Sergino and these guys, they're like 21 years old.

[Tim Howard]

Sure.

[Landon Donovan]

Gio Reyna's 18. Of course, they had no guidance.

[Tim Howard]

The blind leading the blind.

[Landon Donovan]

Totally. And it's not their fault because they didn't know.

[Tim Howard]

It's why I hang so much. This is why I hang so much of this on U.S. soccer. They have. They have to answer a lot of questions, right?

[Landon Donovan]

And look, I hope. I really do hope, Tim, that we don't have another reckoning like this in 26 next year. But I think it could happen, right? It's definitely a possibility, and I just hope you learn from that and don't throw everything out the window. And. And what happened was when I was 20, going into my World cup year, or Even before that, 19 and 18, sure, when I went to camp, Greg Burhalter was there, Jeff Agus was there, Eddie Pope was there. Pablo Master. These guys kicked the shit out of me, dude. And if I in any way started to float away with my ego, they were, like, not happening, and they put me back in my place. This group has had none of that. They've had nobody hold them accountable internally, not coaches, not internally. And it's become a problem. And so there's no. There's just a. There's a void of leadership. There is. You know, Tim Ream's great, and he's. But I think he's, you know, he's a little more quiet and, sure, passive. And some guys are showing some of that. Chris Richards is starting to show a little bit, but there's just a void of that. And when. To your point, when you get into these hard games, games, you need that. Yeah, you need that.

[Tim Howard]

And. And that's kind of. That's kind of where, you know, my optimism lies, is. Is I'm looking at Chris Richards, I'm looking at Tyler Adams, and I'm saying, I know on a weekly basis, as a matter of fact, they're having some hard conversations. Man, their training sessions ain't easy. They're being held to account at their club teams. At their club team. And they're. And they're holding others to account. And I hope. And my hope then is that they see the writing on the wall, which we're all seeing, and they just go, eff it. When I get in. Like, this World cup means everything to me. And I'm not here any longer to have friends. I'm not here any longer to say the right things in the press. I'm here to hold guys accountable because I know those two guys in particular and others. But those two guys in particular I'm looking at and I'm thinking they fill me with confidence. Those are guys who I think are leaders who can push this team forward. There are other leaders out there, but sometimes you need help to lead, and I think that they can help that process. Because, look, in the game against South Korea, we were pretty good. I mean, the stats say. If you're a stat person. The stats say. And many people, certainly within U.S. soccer will put that to the forefront and make sure you read that first. The stats say we were pretty good. We were better in a bunch of areas. You know, shots. Shots on goal. I think xg, which I'm not a firm believer in xg, but XG was higher, I believe if.

[Landon Donovan]

Can I just stop you, though? But, like, who cares?

[Tim Howard]

No, I'm trying to paint a picture here because we're.

[Landon Donovan]

There's lots of games. We weren't better, quote, better than a team.

[Tim Howard]

But my point is, then why, if we're better in. In. In the overall, let's call it stat sheet performance, what then is missing? And you and I would agree it's the clinical nature. It's the ability to not just create chances, but control moments in and around the final third. And we weren't. We weren't clinical. We missed the chances we needed to, well, score or get back into the game. Right. Because ultimately, even if we scored our best chances, you're still looking at a 2, 2 game. Ish.

[Landon Donovan]

Right?

[Tim Howard]

So it's not. It's. Yeah, go ahead.

[Landon Donovan]

So let me. So, okay, so a couple things here. One, as it pertains to, like, just real quick Touching on that leadership thing, I read this fantastic article on the athletic this week about what happened in the Chiefs game. And for nobody, people who didn't watch Chiefs played the Chargers Friday night. The last, last. Literally the last. Basically the last play of the game. The Chargers have the ball, they're winning. The Chiefs are trying to get the ball back. It's third down. This player, Chris Jones for the Chiefs, who's a really good defensive player, one of the best in the league, he kind of went on his own and went inside his defender and allowed Justin Herbert, the Chiefs quarterback, to run outside and run for like 20 yards and get a first down, which then killed the clock and ended the game. And right after that, when they're in the huddle, there's a guy named Drew Tranquil for the Chiefs who was yelling, literally yelling at Chris Jones, one of the best defensive players in the game, saying, dude, your assignment was to stay outside so he wouldn't run there.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And you came inside instead and allowed him to do it. And they were going at each other.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And I was thinking to myself, when was the last time you saw American players yelling at each other? Right. And by the way, this is the. However many times Super bowl champion. 3. These are. This is why they win.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Because when you don't do your job, you hear about it. Right. So I just, it was a fantastic article and it made me just. It made me think about that. The other thing is, to your point, with like the clinic clinical finishing, so South Korea get not maybe two or three chances in the game.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And it's two goals. Right. And the difference. And I said this to you, and I was just thinking about this difference between their best player son. He gets his one chance and buries it.

[Tim Howard]

Yep.

[Landon Donovan]

And then he gets another chance and he has the composure and calmness to roll it to the middle. And the guy back heels in which you know, is embarrassing to get scored on that way. And then you think about, he's 33 years old, he's at the end of his career. Our best player is Christian most talented. And if you just look at the levels of them, you could say, you know, somewhat similar. Son's probably had a little bit better of a career, but that's where we are. So when people are saying, why are we not this, that this is the 23rd ranked team in the world, South Korea, this is not a top 10 team. And sun is still, you could say, as good as or marginally better than Christian, our best player. Right. And so that is just where we are. And I hate to say it that bluntly, but we have to be honest. That is where we are.

[Tim Howard]

And by the way, it's reality. And. And just. I know that. I know the US players think we pick on them, but to your point about the Kansas City Chiefs and Jones and Tranquil having to go at each other, we at NBC said the same thing. There was a. I think Manchester United played Fulham and we've talked about leadership and a lack of leadership at Manchester United and Emil Smith Rowe runs off the back of Bruno Fernandez and taps it in to make it 11 at the death. And not a single. He's a captain. I know not a single Man United player had a go at him, threw their fist at him, yelled at him, track your runner. I mean, by the way, this isn't like a. I'm trying to be someone's friend. You're telling a teammate to track a runner. Not one of them said that. And that was a microcosm of they lack leadership. So as much as Manchester United are trying to get better and trying to buy and sell players, they lack leadership. And that was a perfect example of it. So it happens. It's obvious when it happens other places. So it's not just the US Team, but. But the point is they need to step up. Certain players within that team need to step up and be counted and stand out. Because, by the way, you will stand out in a very good, positive way. But yes, to your point, the clinical nature which leads us to the striker position. Right. This has been a relative problem for a number of years. I don't know the number of years, but.

[Landon Donovan]

But especially since Josie was done. Right. I mean, if you really like a guy who you could say was really the guy and Clint and I were like different players, but just like a true.

[Tim Howard]

A true striker.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Howard]

And. And. And Josh Sargent got his opportunity started. Look, I'm still gazo. America put out a post and compared just Sergeant to Flo Ballion. And you know, the. Flo had five more touches in like.

[Landon Donovan]

You know, a third of the minutes.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, a third of the minutes and touches in opposition box. Flo had 11, sergeant had one. The chances created are all favorites of Baligan. In his 28 minutes he played versus Sargeant who played 62 minutes. I'm still a believer, like it's. I'm still a believer that Josh Sargent can do it at this level. He hasn't quite done it. The end of the game is a little bit different. We're down to nil. We're throwing numbers forward, taking more risks. I get that. And look, Flo's a good striker. I think on our best day, when everyone's fit, he's the number one striker. It's just disappointing that Josh Sargent wasn't able to show in that game, because what it comes down to is scoring or not scoring. I know it sucks. I know it sucks. So in 62 minutes, he didn't score. And now people are basically saying, like, can he do it? I. I do. I. I think he can. Where does he rank in the. In the pecking order? I'm not quite sure. But it does show that we need a healthy flow Baligan.

[Tom Bogert]

He.

[Landon Donovan]

Look, he is. I think he's better. No question. These stats are so skewed. Flow's better than Josh. These scats are. These stats are so skewed. Though the game state matters. We're down 2 0. South Korea had sub, basically all their players. It's totally different. And, and, and majority of those big moments came in one action where he had two shots and they hit the crossbar. Right. So he is better. I'm not, but I'm just saying these.

[Tim Howard]

Stats, I agree with you.

[Landon Donovan]

If, if they had flipped one started, they would be relatively similar. I still think flow. The stats would favor flow, but. But he is better. So he needs to be on the field, and I think Pochettino knows that. Now. Josh Sergeant, I think it's like 17 games now for the U.S. he's gone without scoring. There's just something.

[Tim Howard]

It's tough.

[Landon Donovan]

He scores every time he touches the ball for Norwich. It's crazy. And so I like him. There are just some guys who just aren't. They're just not national team level all the time. Or maybe they are in friendlies and CONCACAF Gold cup. But, you know, it's just. There's levels to these things. Right.

[Tim Howard]

So you. So you think Flo will start?

[Landon Donovan]

He has to. Yeah, he has to start. Yeah, he has to. Some of the quotes after were interesting, so we can get into the Pochettino quotes after, but I thought it was interesting. Tim Reeman, Tyler Adams both had things to say. And. And I'm gonna say the same thing. I always say it's great that they say these things publicly. Are they saying it in the locker room? From what I hear and understand, they're not. And so at some point, I hope, to your point, they'll say it in the locker room. But Tim Red. Tim Ream said there were moments where guys were getting pulled out a little bit more than we usually do and a little bit more than we work on. And again, it's one of those things that you look at a few guys who. It's their first game back with the national team. Tristan Blackman, it's his very first game, first cap, so it was bound to happen a little bit. It's like he knew it. I think a little bit of eagerness to try to get to areas that maybe necessary necessarily, we couldn't get to. And then I'm going to. I'm going to give the Tyler Adams, and then you're going to tell people what they're really saying. I think our roles got a little bit twisted. They found solutions pretty easily in the first half. We talked about it at halftime, and I think we just missed our defensive triggers on a lot of them. And we were a little bit too late to jump. And when you're too late to jump, you end up chasing shadows. And that's what it felt like at times.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. I mean, look, the thing about Tyler is Tyler is an aggressive. He's an aggressive player by nature in his actions, in his mentality. He feeds off aggression, and you can even see that in the midfield. Sometimes he'll do someone else's job because he's just like, he's fed up with the guy not doing their own job. So I like that. But I also think what Tyler is seeing is that there's not enough guys around him being proactive. Right. Like getting to the ball, running through the tackle. That's what Tyler Adams does. So if you ever watch him, because of how he was brought up and in the Red Bull system, he runs through tackles, right? So it's not let me get up to the ball and just jockey. It's run through the tackle, next ball. Right? And so. And so that's a mindset. And he has those triggers. Guys around him necessarily don't. So he's right, you know, with the Tristan Blackman thing, it's, you know, you get. You get your first cap. And this is kind of my gripe overall, right? You get your first cap. This guy's not playing in a World Cup. Like, he's not.

[Landon Donovan]

Zero chance.

[Tim Howard]

And that's not. That's not a knock on anybody, by the way. He.

[Landon Donovan]

He's having. He's had a great career, he's having a great season, great few seasons.

[Tim Howard]

Bring him in the camp and say, we've got two games, you've done really well. If there's a moment in the 80th minute and the 75th minute, in one of these games, I'm going to bring you on and we'll celebrate you. But this is like you lineups and pairings and matchups and partnerships. Like as of right now, all we know, like we don't know a lot. We know it's going to be Chris Richards and Tim Ring. Right. For the most part. If you're, if you had five bucks to bet, start the first game of the World cup, that's going to be your center back pairing. Why would, why would we waste an opportunity against a good team? By the way, that's what we want, right? We want Chris Richards and Tim Ream to get, to get competition, to be able to. Because they're a good pairing. Why, why would we exper. Like, why would we experiment?

[Landon Donovan]

Tim. Tim. After. Exactly. And after that we have no clue who's next. Tell me who's next in line if, if they play in the World cup and one of them gets hurt.

[Tim Howard]

No, I don't know.

[Landon Donovan]

No clue. I don't know. Is it McKenzie? Is it Cameron Carter? Vickers? Is it? I have no idea. No, No, I don't know who's next. And so whoever is next, bring them in. It's definitely not Tristan Black.

[Tim Howard]

Correct.

[Landon Donovan]

And Pochettino has to know that.

[Tim Howard]

Of course. Yeah, he does.

[Landon Donovan]

He point man. There is so much value in pairings and relationships. There's so much value.

[Tim Howard]

That's all the soccer, that's all the soccer field is, is partnerships.

[Landon Donovan]

That's. It's, it's. If you break it down, it's two and three people together playing in a certain part of the field. It is. And so if Sebastian Berhalter is going to be next to Luca De la Torre or Tyler Adams, great. Play him every game till the World Cup. You decide. This gets back to my point and I'm going to beat this. I'm going to beat this drum. Why the hell is Aiden Morris not here? That guy would have helped us last night.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Or the other night. There's no question. No disrespect to Burhalter De la Torre. He's better. Yeah, he's a better player and he's. And he should be in. I want to, I want to get to Pochettino's messages after the game and he was trying to spin it positively, which I understand, I totally get. He said overall we were better than South Korea. But if you're not clinical, which you said in your own penalty area in the opponents opposition box, it's difficult. We created more chances and we had the feeling that we controlled the game, I think we were better disappointed. Of course, I'm very disappointed about the result, but I think it was a massive improvement. And then he said, my message to the fans is that we're going to arrive at the World cup in the best condition and we're going to be difficult to defeat. I'm going to dissect that one in a minute. They. The fans need to believe. You're not giving us much to believe in. We're trying, man. The message is they need to believe. The important thing is at the start of the World cup, we need to have everyone who's going to be on the roster in their best condition.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. So totally agree.

[Landon Donovan]

Tell the fans now.

[Tim Howard]

No.

[Landon Donovan]

What's being said there?

[Tim Howard]

Well, I totally agree. We need to have. We need to have our. Our best players present at when the World cup comes. And actually, if I'm being brutally honest with you, LD, I think when we get 45 minutes before kickoff of the first World cup game, I think we're going to have our best players on. Like, I. I could probably name eight of the starting 11. Right? Here's the problem. You gotta be the most badass riverboat gambler betting with house money to roll those dice. Because that's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. He's basically saying, I ain't had my best team together. I've had injuries, I've had people who need rest. I've done some experimenting. But when we get to that World Cup, I'm going to have my best team. And I believe him. Here's the problem. I don't know what that best team can do. And not a single soul in America who watches and supports this team has any idea what our best team can do. Because I'm saying to you, I like our best team. I'm going to feel ridiculously overconfident when they walk out and I hear that anthem and I see Kristen Pulisic, Waya Richards, Tyler Adams, possibly Weston McKinney. Right? I'm going to look out there and go, we're going to do some things today. But I don't know that because I have zero proof of it. Zero proof. Because we haven't had our best team together. And again, they're gonna. Someone, someone's not gonna let me into the next U.S. game. But U.S. soccer, I think, has done a poor job of getting Pochettino the man they're giving $6 million to his best team as often as possible. Now they'll Tell me their hands are tied. And I'm saying, as a soccer person who's been in big, difficult conversations in boardrooms and other places across the world, they haven't done a good enough job getting Pochettino his best players and having them available.

[Landon Donovan]

And if I'm Pochettino at some point, I say, I don't care about being nice. I don't care about helping your club team. I don't care. You know, I heard some like, some whispers that like, Chris Richards was nursing a little bit of an injury and so they were being careful about the Korea game. It's like, no, man, we're all nursing injuries, right? We're all, if you are healthy enough to play, get on the field, Play him. Play him with Tim Ream every time, if that's your pairing, every time to the World cup. Get continuity, get the people in front of him who are going to be playing there. Get the goalie behind him who's going to be playing there.

[Tim Howard]

My worry is, and again, this is what we talked about. Look, performance is good. This performance, I'll give him that. I'll give Potch that. Like, it was pretty good. The stats showed that, but the performance wasn't there. And again, I just. And Tyler Adams mentioned it in something he said after the game, like, at a certain point winning matters. Okay? A certain point winning matters. And I worry because I said this last, I said this last week. The optics, this World cup is coming in a couple months, for crying out loud. So. So in the September friendlies, there's a possibility we go, oh, and two.

[Landon Donovan]

Japan's better than Korea, by the way.

[Tim Howard]

Japan's better than Korea. That impels more pressure onto, onto October. Yeah, hell, they just did. They just announced in November. Friendliest.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, I think it's Paraguay, Uruguay. Not easy, by the way.

[Tim Howard]

Jesus. Right? So, like, we gotta win some games.

[Landon Donovan]

I know.

[Tim Howard]

And these are decent games.

[Landon Donovan]

Well, this is coming out Tuesday, so either before you're gonna listen to this before or after the Japan game, we are gonna have a live podcast, live stream on Wednesday so we can dissect the Tuesday Japan game. So hopefully there will be some answers. I hope there's not more questions than answers. I'm not optimistic.

[Tim Howard]

But this live stream could be unhinged. People could be throwing haymakers over the top. By the way, if this go, if this goes pear shaped. So I'm praying, I'm praying for a good result.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, let's hope not. I think Chris Richards will be in. I think Flo Baligan will be in. Let's just. We just need a good response and a good performance and a result. All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we have a fantastic guest, Timmy. We're really, really, really excited about American soccer's top soccer reporter and newsbreaker, Tom Boger. If you don't know of him, you're going to learn a lot about him and know a lot about him after this. He's fantastic and we're excited to talk to him, so stay right there. Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim. As always, presented by Volkswagen.

[Tim Howard]

The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

As the U.S. gets ready to host the world for soccer's biggest moment, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the US from deaf.

[Tim Howard]

And power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, VW is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They've signed U.S. soccer talent from across the portfolio of the federation and we'll be helping to give these less popular forms of soccer a platform moving forward.

[Landon Donovan]

As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I'm excited to support them in their mission to increase visibility of all forms of soccer. I was recently on set with them shooting their new campaign to do just that.

[Tim Howard]

Keep an eye out for that launching soon alongside the all new redesigned 2025 Tiguan. It's a beautiful car. We've even had one with us at our recent live show. Make sure to check it out in person and learn [e-mail] There's a certain energy to soccer in Latin America. The footwork, the creativity, the passion from fans. It's more than a sport, it's a rhythm. That same spirit shows up in Cafe Bustello. Bold, vibrant, smooth. Turn up the Latin flavor Cafe Bustello has been bringing for generations. You can't miss this iconic staple anywhere. From the bodega to your local grocery store, they are everywhere. And now there's even more to love. They released a whole new line of roast to match every mood. Light roast, medium dark, and dulce de leche. Each one with its own vibe. Available in pre packed bags and K cup pods. Delicious, hot or iced. However you take your coffee, Cafe Bustello shows up strong. I like mine black strong. Every afternoon. Cafe Busello is more than coffee. It makes you feel alive. Try the new Cafe Bustella roast today.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, Timmy. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Virgin Atlantic.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, we're here at the Virgin Atlantic Clubhouse at jfk. Honestly, it makes you rethink what an airport lounge can be.

[Landon Donovan]

It's beautiful. It's what Virgin does. They've been bringing joy back to flying since day one.

[Tim Howard]

It starts with the people. The crew makes you feel seen. You're not just seat 31A and the planes. Comfy seats, mood lighting, fresh new plane smell and hours. Hours of the best entertainment.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, I know. You travel back and forth across the pond all the time. The food's amazing, all the little amenities. They have their mile high tea. If you want tea at 35,000ft, you can have the jam, the scones, the finger sandwiches, all the things that you loved about British times when you were playing.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, and speaking of the food, you can pre order your meal before you fly, not just talking about the chicken or the fish. I had the Thai curry last time and it was absolutely amazing.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, everything's been thought through. It's flying the way you wish it always was.

[Tim Howard]

So if you're headed to the UK soon, do it in style. After the pod, go to virginatlantic.com to learn more about their amazing experience. LD, I'm super excited to introduce today's guest because I have questions and he has answers. That's why I'm excited. He's the preeminent reporter and newsbreaker in American soccer today. You can see him at Give me Sport Soccer wise and CBS Sports. More importantly, as far as I'm concerned, he's coming to us live and direct from the Jersey Shore. And anybody who knows me knows the Jersey Shore is dear to my heart. The one and only Tom Bogert. Tom, how are you?

[Tom Bogert]

I'm pretty good. And Tim, I always love to hear that. I knew that. I was hoping that I was going to get the friendly New Jersey welcome from you. I figured that Landon was going to have to take a backseat on that one always.

[Tim Howard]

Landon will give us so much crap for being from Jersey, but it's what it is. Go ahead, L.D. chime in. I'm sure you will.

[Landon Donovan]

He just said he's from a place called Brick, New Jersey, which is like.

[Tim Howard]

The New Jersey everything.

[Landon Donovan]

The most New Jersey thing ever. All right, Tom. I'm, like, really fascinated and for the record. And so if this interview goes well and I get the credit, I. I said to these guys, we need to have Tom on because you have, in my sort of mind, come out of nowhere. But I'm also not in the social media sphere all the time, so. And you've. You've become a very relevant part of the soccer landscape here. And there's two parts to what you do and we want to get into both of them. One is sort of the reporting breaking news. But then you're also a fan and you're opinionated, which is interesting because people who follow the NFL guy like Adam Schefter doesn't give too much opinion, but I think it makes you kind of unique. And so I guess of the two, which do you like more as a starting question? Do you is there must be a rush and an exhilaration from breaking news and getting stories, but then you also get to be a fan, so. And opine on things.

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah. So the news breaking side of things, like you said, there is a rush. There is the competitive nature of it and the relationships is something that I truly appreciate because it's the best part, really. It's when you get to know people and when those things are happening and then obviously the competitive side of getting a story when it happens. I do like that I'm able to straddle both. Maybe it'd be worse for me career wise if. If maybe my opinions were worse than they are. I'm sure plenty of people assume that they are not so great, but it is nice to be able to do both. And yeah, but a guy like Adam Schefter, he and Adrian Wojnowski, like, they have the luxury of how huge their leagues are and how huge their followings are and how busy they are, obviously that all they have time to do is news and all that makes sense for his news. So it is nice to be able to do both.

[Landon Donovan]

And how did you get into this? How did this all start?

[Tom Bogert]

So the good news is I went down to Argentina when I was like 14 or 15 for some games and I thought I was pretty good. We played river plates U15 Academy and I realized then and there I'm not going to make it pro. These kids are a different, different breed than me. So I say that was the good news, that that was early enough for me to start figuring out some other things. And it's like, wait a minute, you can just write and talk about sports and like that's a job. Sign me up. So that's how I got into the business in general. And then through a confluence of hard work and good luck, end [e-mail], i had a boss who believed in me, saw a vision for me in news breaking. And not only did I not see this as a path, I actively pushed against it. When he first said, hey, I think you have a knack for this because it was out of fear. It was, hey, you're only as good as your sources, and what if I can't keep those relationships? And part of it was a little ego. Oh, no, man. I can watch a soccer game and have just, you know, the best analysis, like tactically or otherwise, right? And he's like, you know, everybody does that. He's like, I think that the new side of things, I think that you could be special. And again, not only did I not plan for it, I pushed against it. So thank God that I had some smarter people around me.

[Tim Howard]

Well, you talk. You talked about valued sources and trust. And I would imagine in your, your line of business that, like, that's. If you don't have trust in relationships, you have nothing. And so I. What kind of came first? Was it. Was it your hard work and the respect that you gained that allowed sort of people to let you in? Was it fostering relationships outside of, of the workspace in the soccer world? Like, what. What, do those kind of run parallel or did one come before the other?

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah, probably the former more than the latter. Again, it's not like my baseline connections, Again, I play D3eSocker, right? It's not like that. I had people that I was playing with that end up in, in MLS locker rooms or in front offices and stuff like that. So it was when, when I started writing. It's trying to ask the right questions. Trying to be. Again, it's a. I hate trying to explain this because it sounds like a beauty, passion answer. Like, it's not a great answer, but it, like, really is. Like, if, If I'm full of crap, people can see that, right? If I'm doing it for clout chasing, people can see that. Like, the relationship building is just that. Like, if you don't want to. If I'm not semi enjoyable to talk to or able to build trust and, and not be selfish, then, like, it's easy to just. You don't have to answer me, right? Like, so it is about building those relationships and being about the right things and trying to not, you know, not only talking to sources when I'm looking for news, like talking to them because you care about them as people.

[Landon Donovan]

It can. Tom, can you take our fans behind the scenes and you don't have to obviously give a specific example, but how this all comes about, right? So let's say a MLS team is going to sign a big European player, Sun or Muller, or something like that, and how do you go about getting this Info. Do people offer it? Right. Are you constantly chasing it? I'm guess it's a mix of both. Um, because organizations have motives too. Right. And so how does, can you just walk us through that process and then also how you confirm? Right. Because the last thing you really can do is get it wrong. Right. Because I'm guessing that would be almost irreparable damage. Right. So can you walk us through that process?

[Tom Bogert]

Exactly. And I, I live by that fear of if you're wrong once, it is irreparable damage. Unfortunately it does not always seem to be that case in the wider world of this. But I, I think it's a good rule for me to live by a healthy amount of anxiety is what I try to operate with. So in, in these situations. Yeah, it's always a mix of maybe you hear from somebody, you heard from somebody and, and then having those pre existing relationships to be able to call anybody in any situation, whether it's here or in Europe, somebody who has direct knowledge of the negotiations or the deal or whatever and having that level of respect and understanding that like Landon there are motives sometimes like that is part of the filtering. When I hear something like obviously I don't report anywhere near everything that I hear because if I did then I'd be hearing a whole lot more nonsense that people know that, oh, if I just tell him something, he'll run it and like we'll talk about like The Thomas Mueller 1 and son Young Min. I was able to call a lot of like none of that is one source. Like all of that is multiple sources. It's checking every detail, double checking, confirming, being careful. And on the Thomas Mueller one, I was at my sister and brother in law's combined like 35th birthday party. I was gonna say a few words and give a speech and all day, all morning, you know, time zones, trying to be respectful of. All right, don't call somebody at 6:30 Pacific Time. Oh man, like I really hope that I can get this confirmed before the party. And then I have somebody, one of my sources, like the last person I needed to talk to like texted me and goes like hey, like hey, I can call you now if you're good. And like I'm about to like, gotta go. And I was like, man, I can't. My sister and brother, I care so deeply about them. I'm not gonna walk away and take a call, do this. But I, I give the, say a few words and then do a toast and then I just immediately run outside. My sister, she's a huge Huge dog. A huge fan of this show. So I'm sure she's listening to this. I turned her and I was like, mueller, Vancouver. She was like, what? And I got. Somebody comes outside, like, saying, like, oh, like, that was so nice. And I have AirPods in. I'm like, get the F away. I need. I need five minutes. Like, please leave me alone. The work life balance.

[Tim Howard]

What's your sister's name?

[Tom Bogert]

Jess.

[Tim Howard]

Jess, thank you for allowing him to say a few words and have the burden. Yeah, so. So I said, I have questions. One of my questions, before we get into some of the meaty topics, just kind of on what you do, you touched on this. So I'm always curious on competition in your world, right? So one question is about competition. The other question is about how many sources. So my first question is, you get a story, right? What happens if you have this breaking story and someone breaks it like 10 minutes before you? It's kind of irrelevant at that point. And do you just take the L, as the kids say? And number two, when you get a big story and you know, you know you have levels, there's a big, big story. And there's. There's a big story. How many? How many. Once you get that information, how many sources do you personally feel like, all right, I have to tick two boxes. I have to tick four boxes before I release it. Like, what's that like?

[Tom Bogert]

So on the first one, I think it's really, really important to give credit when somebody else is first. And the only sliding scale there is if there's somebody that I know either jumped the gun on something before, it was act like that's the only time that I won't give credit if somebody's before me. But I do think that's pretty foundational, and it's not really the case in big European soccer. It's getting a little better. But I look at the people who came before me and the people who are still here. Grant Wall. Grant Wall. One of my favorite things about him, and then he. I think everybody in the American soccer media has a story with him where he's. He was open to talking to or whatever. He was always somebody that if you wrote a good story or did a good thing, it didn't matter if you were, air quote, a competitor or if you worked with him. He would go out of his way, say that that was good. And I think that really set the bar for a lot of us. You have Matt [e-mail] and he's one of my mentors and Then, you know, Paul Tenorio and Sam Stagecool were, you know, the two biggest newsbreakers as I was coming in, those guys looked out for me. They helped me out. They still give me advice whenever I need it and whenever I ask. And they laid a foundation that I feel really strongly about, is you got to give credit, you got to do things the right way and appreciate other people's work because you want it the same way for you. So on that, and also for me, I hope that I've established enough trust where now, even if I'm not first, obviously, I always want to be first. But what is most important is being 100% completely correct. And part of it is, even if somebody does break it before me, my stamp of approval does carry some weight. So, again, I want to be first on every single story, and I want it to always be right. But that's also part of it. And then the second question on, it's always multiple sources, and it's primary sources. So sometimes I am able and privy to see documents, which can help lessen the burden of picking a number of sources. And the good news, I try to stick to just things that are factual. Like, obviously, you have to report on. On things that can't be proven. But that's why player signings are. Are the best, because it's like, hey, whatever spin somebody wants to say, is this player signing or are they not? Whereas in some of the more sensitive stuff, that's the higher number of sources, because somebody might not even be trying to spin you. Somebody might not even be trying to say something that's not totally true. Everybody has a different level of perspective on how they experience something. So you really need to hammer down every little detail and make sure you hear it from a number of people when it's something like that. Whereas a signing is okay, it's a fact or not.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

Do you ever. Is there ever a time where you have a source that has been 100% right every time over 50 different transactions or whatever, and they say, hey, this is done, and you'll go with it because you trust them, or do you have to then verify it?

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah, it's still verify it, but that definitely informs my next phone call, rather than, hey, I heard this, or like, no, I know this is happening. It's gonna come out one way or another. So that. That definitely helps. And, like, I think I was lucky where some of my first relationships in this business, I. I was quickly able to tell I who's full of crap and who's real And I have a lot of. A lot of real ones that are in my inner circle, which is good.

[Landon Donovan]

Do you ever ask yourself. Sorry, do you ever ask yourself why. I always wonder this. Why in some situations are people reaching out to you to give you information? Like, I asked this with Fabricio Romano, right. Not of him, but just in my mind I say, why are these teams telling him and why are they telling him first? And so, so, like, what's. I don't understand the value. And can you just help me understand from the team perspective? Because it's not like it's so beneficial for them to have this news broken all the time. Right. So why. Why do they do it?

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah. And I'll say for Fabrizio, I mean, he has 27 million followers on X. I think that that's usually a good reason to, particularly for smaller clubs to.

[Landon Donovan]

Have their name because that gets them relevance or. Right.

[Tom Bogert]

People are significantly more likely. And again, I'm talking about him, not for me. Very different levels, again, in terms of following for him. You're significantly more likely to see a Buyer Leverkusen signing on Fabrizio Romano's Twitter than going to like Buyer Leverkusen unless that you're a big fan. So I think that. And again, I'm using that club as just the first came to mind, rather than something nefarious. So, yeah, there are, there are different ways. So one is it's. And yes, there are angles and stuff. I get it. I'm not naive to that. But. But there are some times where, like, if I call somebody or somebody, like that comes with relationships rather than, oh, there's a motive, hear that there's some sort of spin. But on some of them, it's like, hey, it is, it is beneficial for, like, I'm going to tell you about something that you don't know yet, and as I'm telling you're, going to get my perspective on it. So that's probably how it seems like at some things. And, and there's things that like the teams can't announce or agents or players or whatever. Like you can't, you can't be 100% truthful in press releases. So it helps kind of inform some things that they can't totally say. But again, I do think part of it is they also know in this day and age that a lot of things are going to get out. Might as well be with somebody you trust.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Landon Donovan]

So, Tom, let's move. When this episode gets released on Tuesday, people will be Listening to this either probably right before or right after the national team plays Japan. Just got done this weekend with us playing Korea losing 2, 0. More opinion here than anything breaking or any news. But state of U.S. soccer, as a general comment, someone who has followed, you know, we followed it, we were in it. We follow it intensely from our viewpoint, but from someone who's genuinely grew up as a fan and played D3 soccer and now reports on it, just what's, what's your view on it? And we'll talk about. We'll say the men's team. We'll say the men's team of U.S. soccer.

[Tom Bogert]

It's, it's, it's a big sigh. It's sometimes it's ambivalence, sometimes it's apathy. It is rarely optimistic and positive at the moment. You just go back and look so outside of the Gold cup, five losses in a row and these are World cup quality opponents under Mauricio Pochettino. He's. They've played 15 matches outside, like discounting January camps because that's not a FIFA break. The US national team should always be winning January camps. And I don't think that's fair to add to this. Of those 15 other games in FIFA Windows, they've lost seven. The wins are against Jamaica twice, Panama, believe Honduras, Trinidad, like, yeah, Haiti. It's a lot of gold scope, group stage. And it's just not good enough right now. And beyond the results, because you could argue, hey, the friendlies, like, I don't totally buy, like, you have to get. At some point, you have to. It has to be about results. Right? But you could argue, all right, the underlying. What is it looking like? What is the progress? What is the style? You guys tell me, what is one defining stylistic feature that this team is trying to accomplish? Because I can't see one defining thing. It's not pressing. It's not transition, it's not possession, it's not defending deep, it's not Route 1. It's not set pieces. I don't know how to describe this team. And I think that's the first thing that is so disappointing for me. And the second thing is, honestly, since your guys generation, like the Bob Bradley era with you guys, my favorite part of those teams were you guys have plenty of talent. There's no disrespect. You always played beyond the sum of your parts. When was the last time that a U.S. national team, not just under Pochettino, but previously, when's the last time the national team has played beyond the sum of his parts.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, that's actually, that's actually a great way to say it, Tom. I hadn't thought about that. Tim and I can, we don't need to go down to memory lane, but there are dozens and dozens of games where collectively we played better than we were individually and got results against teams that we had no business getting results again. And so when you were going through those stylistic, Are there any definitive stylistic changes? No, but even for me, more than that, just from an attitude perspective, I don't see any, I don't see any continuity or definitive way of playing just from a, just from a care standpoint. And that's, you know, it's interesting just to hear from someone who's in a different part of this world and who's also a fan. And do you, I guess you probably have friends and people you talk to all the time. Is that a common thread and feeling amongst them as well that you hear.

[Tom Bogert]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, it is. And again, I try to be careful on that side for myself because you guys, former players, the legends of this program, you guys are the people that I want to hear from if it's about, you know, effort or care or attitude. Right. Like, I, I don't, that's not my expertise. Right. But fans, like you said, friends all, that's what I hear a lot. And again, it matters. It carries the most weight coming from former players and legends and everything else. But again, that is definitely the feeling from the fan base, even if it's just anecdotally, but I feel pretty strongly in that.

[Tim Howard]

The, the, I don't disagree with any of that. The one problem for me that I see, so, so talk about stylistically and identity, I, I, I was very quick in the Gold cup to say I'm starting to see that. I'm starting to see a bit of flexibility and expansiveness and, you know, kind of fullback rolling inside, which is all in vogue in football. And I, but then, but then it beg. When I look at the broader picture, I'm saying these are opponents that we're going to dominate naturally. Like before we step on the field, look at the team sheet. We're a better team by a million miles. We're going to have most of the ball, so that's great. Then the concern then comes in on games we're up against it or we're not dominating possession. Although again, South Korea, we did have the better of the possession. But overall, in games that are going to be, we just know we're going to be really hard to Win. That's then where I'm like, okay, what is then our identity? And by the way, you can have multiple ways of playing in order to get results. So I think that's where the concern comes in, because I do see the identity when we are, as you mentioned, playing Gold cup opponents, playing CONCACAF opponents. But in the bigger, bigger matchups, do we have enough moxie, do we have enough quality, really, to be that expansive group and to try and press the game and put our stamp on it? And the answer is probably no, and that's okay. So then what is the way to then get the performance and get the result? And we're not quite seeing that yet.

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah, I completely agree. And that was even going back to the previous regime. That was some of my criticisms. It's like, yeah, it's great to want to dominate in the World cup qualifying, Gold cup, and having the ball, it's like, all right, well, when you scale that to the group, even the group stage at the World cup, for sure, the knockout rounds, it's like, all right, well, you're not going to do that against England, Holland, Argentina, Brazil, whoever. So what does this look like at the higher scale? And speaking to players this week leading into the game, several of them were like, yeah, we want to play high energy. We want to press, we want to. And, like, I think that makes the most sense for this group. So hopefully we'll start to see that again. If I've been so pessimistic here and negative, I hope I want to end on some sort of positive view moving forward, even though the time is running out. Hopefully we can see some of that. And hopefully, like, Anthony Robinson has been a big, big miss over however many months he's been away from the team due to injury, so that'll help. And hopefully when Wes McKinney is back in the team, and I just hope to see some more continuity and some more, you know, underlying performance when the group is totally available. But even the caveats to that is, we've been saying since 2021, when the group is totally available and you can't plan on that, and it needs to be better.

[Tim Howard]

You mentioned Wes McKinnon. Do you think there's a. There's a path back for him? Is there. Is that something that, you know, he's obviously been left off this roster. Is there a thought that there's space for him or desire for him to be back within the group?

[Tom Bogert]

Yeah, I certainly think so. And Pochettino did strike. Tony, he was like, you know, hey, we know what Weston is like, we wanted to bring in some other guys to give them a chance or whatever. Right. Like, so I'm firmly expecting him to be back in the near future and hopefully this again, I don't know if this was completely like a, hey, I'm trying to send a message, not even maybe just to Weston, but to everybody. Hey, like, you're not. Your spot isn't guaranteed. You got to show up, you got to train well, you got to do all this stuff. But I'm firmly expecting him back in the future, but we'll see.

[Tim Howard]

I just, you know the interesting part and Landon knows how I feel about the comment. We know what he can do because I think that, I think it's a little bit of a let off because you know England, who I hold in very high regard in regards because of I played there and I know the players and I think they're, you know, constantly a top five team in the world. That's an unacceptable comment. Like if you're, if you're a Premier League player and you're Harry Kane, right. He's a captain, so probably not a great example. Right. But if you're, if you're a starting player for England, you would never accept Tuchel or prior to that Southgate saying, you know, we're not going to call Harry in because we know what he's going to do. You'd say, well, one, the manager never says that and two, if he told me that, I would never let him say it publicly and I would demand that I'm coming into camp. So it's a little bit of a free pass for me when it comes to the manager saying those things because again, to what you said, what millions of people have been saying and what Landon and I have been saying, when we get our best team, when we get our best team, Weston McKinney is part of our best team. And if he's available and he's fit, he has to be in. So that's the only caveat to that.

[Tom Bogert]

And hey, we're what, seven to nine months away from the World Cup.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Tom Bogert]

Maybe now's not the time to be experimenting. You know, the experiments should be on a much, you know, you know, Wes McKinney should be part of this team. And like I, I didn't hate like Tristan Blackman getting a debut. Like, I think he's earned it. I think you put him next to Chris Richards because, you know, Chris Richards is going to be the one, a starting center back for this team.

[Tim Howard]

Right.

[Tom Bogert]

Experiments. You don't learn enough if there's not enough controls around. And again, this is a better argument for a couple years before the World cup like this. At this it should be finding out who is my best 11 and trying to play them as much as possible.

[Tim Howard]

Thank you.

[Tom Bogert]

So it's been disappointing.

[Landon Donovan]

Yes, we appreciate it, Tom, and we look forward to having you back again, man. Thank you.

[Tom Bogert]

Oh, that'd be great. Appreciate the kind words, guys. Means the world.

[Landon Donovan]

All right, Tim. Hidden Amongst all the US chatter, there were some MLS games this weekend. Three on Saturday, one on Sunday, Chicago beat New England. 3 2. Your Dynamo tied my Galaxy. Very, very, very late draw by the Galaxy. St. Louis. Dallas tied 11 Sporting Kansas City 1 Austin. 2. Timmy. It's time for the unfiltered refresh. Sponsored by Coors Light. Choose Chill. Get Coors Light delivered. Go to Coors Light.com USLNT this man, St. Louis, Dallas. So Dallas go away to St. Louis in the 16th minute. Starting goalkeeper for Dallas, Michael Collodi was sent off. So who comes in? His backup, Jacob Jackson. 25 year old Jacob Jackson, great name. St. Louis went on to attempt. Listen to this. I've Never heard this. 43 shots. 43 shots and the final score ended. 1 1. According to the website fought mob, Jackson prevented 2.42 goals on the saves. He made 43 shots. This man came in cold off the bench. Boy, did he choose chill. He was choosing chill on the bench. He really chose chill in the game.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

And gets the tie.

[Tim Howard]

When I heard about this, I watched it back, like all of, all of the saves kind of in like a compilation. And I just thought, good on you, man. Because by the way, that's hard to do when like you're a starting goalkeeper. It's even harder to do when you get that like taser on the bench. When the guy gets a red card, you're like, oh, no, my boots are untied. I don't know where my gloves are. Who's got my shirt? I got to pull my shin guard like it is. Oh, and then I get warmed up. So to be fair to Jacob Jackson, really well done for choosing chill because I mean, he made some good saves, by the way. Made some really good saves. And to have 43 shots, I don't even know how many were on target. Either way, that's a, that's a great performance. 1 1.

[Landon Donovan]

I always say, Tim too, like, you never know how a career is going to take off. You might get that one moment and like maybe he now gets a shutout in the next game and all of a sudden, he's a starting goalkeeper and then you have a start. I mean, it's crazy how these things happen. It happens fast. So congrats to you, Jacob Jackson. And the last time we saw a performance like that was Tim Howard against Belgium in the World Cup. So cheers, Jacob Jackson. All right, let's take a break. When you come. When we come back, we'll dive into your Questions in the AT&T fan connection. Ooh, I'm assuming they're going to be spicy this week. Tim, right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen. Stay right there. There.

[Tim Howard]

LD Let me tell you about this time recently, this weekend that I chose Chill. You'll appreciate this more than most. Game ends at Anfield. I'm walking out. Bunch of fans walked past me. Unfortunately, I had to walk through some very lively Liverpool supporters, shall we say, and someone very nicely asked me for a picture. So, sure, why not? I took a picture and then an autograph. And then they very cheekily said, you'll never walk alone, and walked away and giggled. And I thought, now is the moment. It's best you choose chill. Get me back to the hotel so I got a cold Coors Light. Thank you very much.

[Landon Donovan]

As always, when you embrace a chill mindset, it's a good time to choose chill. Crack open a cold Coors Light.

[Tim Howard]

Make the most of the times you choose chill. Choose Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit Coors Light.com USLNT Celebrate Responsibly Coors.

[Landon Donovan]

Brewing Co. Golden Colorado Beer there's nothing.

[Tim Howard]

Better than feeling like someone has your back and that things are going to get done without you even having to ask.

[Landon Donovan]

Like fans who start to sing and chant at the exact moment their team needs to rally.

[Tim Howard]

A coach who can change strategies at halftime to help their team win.

[Landon Donovan]

A keeper you know is defending your.

[Tim Howard]

Goal or a forward who is always ready to receive the ball.

[Landon Donovan]

AT Unfiltered Soccer. Tim and I know all too well how important it is to be sure someone out there has your back. And that's precisely why AT&T has a new guarantee.

[Tim Howard]

The AT&T guarantee is all about having your back when you're with AT&T. If there's a network interruption, they'll proactively make it right with a credit for a full day of Service, guaranteed.

[Landon Donovan]

Visit att.com guarantee to learn more. Terms and conditions apply.

[Tim Howard]

AT&T connecting changes everything.

[Landon Donovan]

Credit for Fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes. Or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guarantee for full details.

[Tom Bogert]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless.

[Landon Donovan]

And if you haven't made the switch.

[Tim Howard]

Yet, here are 15 reasons why you should should.

[Tom Bogert]

One, it's $15 a month.

[Tim Howard]

Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts.

[Tom Bogert]

Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it.

[Tim Howard]

Are you, are you playing me off?

[Landon Donovan]

That's what's happening, right?

[Tim Howard]

Okay, give it a try.

[Tom Bogert]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan.

[Jordan]

$15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Tim Howard]

See mintmobile.com Time now for the AT&T fan connection. This is where we get to interact with all of our fans. Questions, comments, concerns. And also, Jordan gets to have her airtime, which she loves.

[Landon Donovan]

Jordan, I wonder if there are any concerns.

[Tim Howard]

What is that? Is that, Is that a Spice Girl shirt?

[Jordan]

Okay, let me tell you about this shirt that I'm wearing right now. Okay? This is a collab that Admiral did with the Spice girls for their 25th anniversary. This is Spice Girls turn 25. And so, yeah, they did this for the women's Euros this summer and I had to get one.

[Tim Howard]

I, I, I'm, I'm down for the Spice Girl. That's so cool.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Landon Donovan]

What, what? But who is it? Like, is it a team?

[Tim Howard]

A national team?

[Jordan]

No, it's just, it's just the Spice Girls. It's got the, I think it's the 25th anniversary of Spice World specifically. So it has the logo and it says 25 and spice on the back, too.

[Tim Howard]

Amazing.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And I like the little, like the dots and all the colors. Yeah, yeah, it's very cool.

[Tim Howard]

You got some cool shirts. You're out of touch with the people. You're out of touch with the people, man. You just have to look that up.

[Jordan]

Landon, what are you wearing?

[Landon Donovan]

It's so cool, huh?

[Jordan]

Yes, I looked it up. It is a 2006 U.S. men's National Team special jersey for when you guys played Latvia. Where did we play friendly before the World Cup?

[Tim Howard]

Was it in Hartford, Connecticut?

[Landon Donovan]

Connecticut.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

No, that was Venezuela.

[Jordan]

No, I don't have the location on this.

[Landon Donovan]

It was in Hartford.

[Jordan]

Blurb. I'm reading.

[Landon Donovan]

I'm sure Kyle will have it in the next six seconds.

[Tim Howard]

Yes, Kyle is on a production team.

[Landon Donovan]

And I'm almost positive it was Hartford. Jordan, lots of optimistic emails to you this week. I presume.

[Jordan]

Okay, so here's something that happened this week in the email. I would say I actually had a little bit of a struggle putting together the mailbag this week because most of the fans did not want to ask you any questions. They just wanted to shout about the US Mental team.

[Tim Howard]

Totally fine.

[Landon Donovan]

Shout out therapy. Jordan's your therapist.

[Jordan]

I not making enough money for that. Okay, so I will say generally speaking, the, the consensus is pretty much consistent whether people wrote in via email or they commented on our Instagram. I would say the people who are the most pessimistic about the U.S. men's National Team are saying that we're not going to make it out of the group stage, which Tim and Lynn will tell you in the group chat. I believe I said the same thing on Saturday night. I was like, we're getting cooked. We're getting cooked.

[Landon Donovan]

Next time a little dramatic. We're going to be fine.

[Jordan]

We also have had several requests for the two of you to come out of retirement post haste, lace up your boots, get in there and help the, help the guys out. But we did have some questions and so let's, let's take a look at some of them. The first one is from Brian via email. As a side note, Brian would like to know whether or not I ever made Landon the playlist I did. Landon found it to be a little scary.

[Tim Howard]

Yep.

[Landon Donovan]

Hey, because you know you hear that one song that, that teenage song or whatever, it's like fun and upbeat. And then I got through the. I was like this is dark.

[Jordan]

Landon's now worried about me personally.

[Tim Howard]

As you should be.

[Jordan]

Brian. Brian wants to know if I can add some a data remember to. So Landon, I guess we're making you like a pop punk playlist now. Maybe we'll find some more update stuff.

[Landon Donovan]

Send it my way.

[Jordan]

Brian says so many times the US play for the first time during a tournament or international break, they are either slow or look exhausted. Could the travel for the players abroad have affected an effect on their performance? What was your guys experience like when traveling during a brief international break, especially when you have to go to multiple cities? Does U.S. soccer need to have a better system in place for that?

[Landon Donovan]

Tim?

[Tim Howard]

No, I'm not. I'm genuinely giving it thought. It's a good question. I the being sluggish because of travel isn't. Isn't a real thing. They have enough time and they have enough opportunities and some of them will fly private and players in, in England and Europe have to go to Asia and Australia as well in South America, by the way. We don't talk about Brazil being sluggish. We don't talk about Brazil and Argentina being sluggish. So that's. That's not really. That's not really a thing. What was the second part of the question?

[Jordan]

What was your experience like? And does U.S. soccer need to have a better system in place?

[Tim Howard]

Well, yeah, I mean, look, I think that. I think. I think part of it is we don't have a national stadium. You know, when you go to England, you just land. Land in London. You know, they're already. A lot of them are there. But you play one particular place. I mean, U.S. soccer essentially should have had a national stadium or one that they called their own on the east coast, just because of the proximity to Europe and other places. But given the landscape of our country, we have had to promote soccer at all, in all corners. And so you have to kind of share and share alike. So you've had. You've had to kind of diversify what stadiums you're going to play in. So I get that. That's. That's the difficult part.

[Landon Donovan]

This doesn't have Jordan. This doesn't have to do with U.S. soccer. This is you as an individual taking care of your body first and foremost. So the minute, and I mean, the minute your game is over on Saturday or Sunday and you're in Europe, you are in full, like, recover mode. That's not. Like, a lot of times after the game, you go out, you drink, you do whatever. That's not the time. You're in full recovery mode. They're flying in business class, first class. They can lie down. By the way, all the Korean team plays in Europe, too. So there's no right. There's no excuse there. So it's not easy. It's not ideal. But also FIFA changed these windows. So now when you play Saturday, you fly in Sunday. You have all the way till they play Thursday or Friday. A lot of times it's Friday. Tuesday, I think they played Friday. Right. Or do they play Saturday? Yeah, Saturday. Saturday, yeah. So even more. I mean, that is. That is enough time. You're not going to be perfect, but you're an elite athlete, take care of your body. So that's not an excuse. So I don't, you know, it's a. It's a good question. And it used to be where you would fly Sunday and play Wednesday. Now that's a real thing. But Sunday to Saturdays, that's not an issue.

[Tim Howard]

No. Can I just. Go ahead.

[Jordan]

I was just gonna say we don't play outside the US either.

[Landon Donovan]

Very rarely. We used to play a lot of games in Europe.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So like even the play. So what about the players who maybe play for the Korean national team who do play in Asia, who had to come here.

[Landon Donovan]

Correct.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Landon Donovan]

So like that was my first thought. Like the goalkeeper I think plays in Asia and like that's a. Yeah. Beast of a trip. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Anyway, sorry Brian, I'm not trying to ask your question.

[Tim Howard]

The other, the other, the other side of that, which you, you. I don't know how many times on loan you experienced this, but like the other side of that was fly. We would play. You were talking about the FIFA window. So we'd play on the Wednesday, right. Late. Okay. So that meant the flight back to Europe wasn't until Thursday night. So I would, I would land back every. To every window. I would land back in Manchester on Friday morning. Like zero. Sleep on the plane. Right. I'd land back Friday morning and I was, I was who I was at Everton. So I was playing on Saturday. Right. Like David Moyes was basically like, if you need anything in that medical bag, ingest it or get it injected, but we're. You're playing. I knew I was playing Saturday and so literally I wouldn't, There's. Sometimes he would just. I would land in Manchester on Friday and he'd say just go to bed. Like don't, don't turn up at training. Sometimes he'd say come and get a warm down. Because I didn't get really a warm down necessarily from the game. Right. Cause we, we were out on Thursday. There was no team, there was no US team warm down on Thursday and, and then I would, I would turn up being jet lagged and just get through the 90 minutes and it was like hell, it was like, just get through this 90 minutes. So the reverse was like so difficult. Anyway, that was brutal. Brutal. Next question.

[Jordan]

This one's from Randy via email. I'm writing as I was at the U.S. men's National Team vs. Korea game in Harrison, New Jersey on Saturday and I was struck by, by the number of Korean fans in attendance. The announced attendance was a sold out 26,000 people at Sports Illustrated Stadium and about 20,000 of them must have supported Korea. Most were well behaved, although one kept yelling pretty disgusting things at the team and made my 9 year old son cry. I'm sorry Randy, that sucks. But their impact on the game was pretty apparent. The Korean players really responded to their energy. How can we as a fan base build that energy and momentum for our team? I'll say the ticket prices were astronomical. And at that price, it's probably the only game we'll be able to attend due to the cost.

[Landon Donovan]

Okay, so many thoughts on this.

[Tim Howard]

So here's the thing. Here's the thing. It is about. It is about cost and here's why. So when I was, when I was in. Where was I. I was in Denver, right? And I had this conversation and Mexico played somebody at the football stadium in Denver. It's now, it's been a bunch of different sponsors name. At one time it was Mile High Stadium essentially, right. They weren't playing in our soccer stadium, which was Dick sporting the park. This was Mile High. And this thing LD was, it was like Mexico versus Venezuela or Colombia or somebody. And this thing, bro, was packed. Packed like to the gills. And it's a big stadium. So I said to someone like these, these Mexican fans and the other fans, who they were, I said, they're in our community, by the way. They're. They're not coming from Idaho or Chicago. They said they're in Denver. I said, so, so, so why is our, why aren't we. Why aren't they coming to our stadium? And, and the guy and, and the person who is obviously I was talking to was basically like, yeah, because this is like Mexico's playing in Denver. Like this is their Super Bowl. Like they're so excited to see their team, right. Cause it's kind of a one off, right. And, and so we see that a lot. You know, South Korea comes to, comes to the New York, New Jersey area. That entire community is like buzzing beyond belief to see because they're only going to really pay for that moment and that spectacle one time. Right. And, and I think we see that. And to. I think it was Randy to his point. These tickets are expensive, right? So you're pretty much willing to splurge on that once, right? To see your favorite team and your favorite players ever. It's a lot more difficult paying for travel and paying for tickets to see your team multiple times. And I think that's what U.S. soccer, the U.S. soccer fans are running into. I don't know if that was as accurate, but that's what it felt like.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah, I think it's probably a mix of a lot of things right now. There's just not that inspiring to go watch. I mean, at the end of the day it's entertainment, Tim. And people forget that. But like, would you pay money, really good money to go see that? Maybe not. But like at their best, yeah, you would go Pay because it's exciting, it's entertaining, etc. Someone at US Soccer, long time, a long time ago, said to me, landon, I don't care where the people come from or who they are, as long as the stadium's full. And from U.S. soccer standpoint, they're ecstatic that the stadium, they could care less if there were 6,000 or 25,000American fans there. They just trying to bring in the money. And so they said, I don't care if they're from Mexico or Nigeria or Argentina or America, as long as the stadium's full, that's all we care about. And I was like, okay, fair enough.

[Tim Howard]

As a player, I would. I would second that. As a player, by the way. Like, I. I prefer to play.

[Landon Donovan]

I agree. I'd rather just be full pack stadiums.

[Tim Howard]

Even if they were. They were against me, which sucked. But I would rather that.

[Landon Donovan]

Yeah.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

This is the only country in the world where that happens.

[Landon Donovan]

100 is it the only. I'm just trying to think. Yeah, probably, right?

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[Landon Donovan]

But I mean, it's the beauty of America too, right? Like, where else can you go where there's 30,000 South Koreans in a community outside of South Korea? Right? Yeah.

[Jordan]

I know this is like a very naive thing for me to say, but, like, I would like to believe that's a reason why the World cup is here, because there's already people who are supporting all of those countries.

[Landon Donovan]

You know, that's why the club World cup was here. It's a couple of America's here. It's. It's all part of it.

[Jordan]

Okay. Joe, via email, said, as a fan, I agree with Landon and Tim on the current state with the U.S. men's National Team. Can you give us your thoughts on the current youth system? And are we now seeing the effects of pay to play culture filtering in helicopter parents, players boycotting players being coddled, etc. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Also, Joe wanted me to know that this is the third time he sent in a question, and I haven't let him ask one yet.

[Tim Howard]

So, yes, Joe, persistence pays off. Look, I'll dive straight in the you the youth system in America land, and I have talked about this ad nauseam. Will continue. The you system in America is just flat broke. The pay to play model is so firmly entrenched, it will never be replaced. It could. It could be subsidized somehow, but it's not going anywhere and it's failing our kids miserably. Landon, Landon and I were lucky. We were Very, very good. Very, very good. At a young age, people looked the other way on payments, and we got the rub of the green. My daughter, again, I've mentioned it before, she comes from an affluent family and she has worked her butt off, but she. She has also had help in getting to ECNL tournaments and all the rest of those things. It's broken. It's broken at its core, which is essentially why we don't produce really good young talent. Simple.

[Landon Donovan]

This is. It's like when someone asks you to respond to something on Twitter and you have 140 or 280 characters and it's like it's going to take 280,000 characters. This is. And we've talked about this for a long. We will have dedicated youth soccer episodes in the future. But to answer your question directly, yes, you are seeing now the manifestation of all of those things. Coddling parents pay to play, poor coaching, greedy youth clubs, U.S. soccer. You know, a few people at U.S. soccer thinking they know what's best for the country. There was an article again in the Athletic this week by Harry Bushnell about, you know, what Matt Crocker is trying to do. Yeah, I'm going to bite my tongue there for a minute, but we'll get into this at some point. But there's just a lot of clueless people who have no idea what they're doing. And it's. Well, I shouldn't say that they have an idea of what they're doing to make money and to profit. They do not have the best interest of American soccer development at heart, and they don't. And that's just the reality. And you can say it's good or bad or whatever. That is the reality. And we'll dive into that more for sure at some point.

[Jordan]

All right, that's it. Thanks, guys.

[Tim Howard]

Thanks, Jer.

[Landon Donovan]

Go, Spice Girl.

[Tim Howard]

Go Spice Girls.

[Landon Donovan]

Oh, man, what an episode. Okay. Tim got through a lot today. Thanks to Tom Boger. He was great. Great questions again from Jer. All the dissection of the US Game. Let us hope, hope, hope that the live stream on Wednesday is full of excitement and energy and optimism. Sports are funny, man. One good result, one good performance can turn things around. So let's hope so. Thank you guys, as always, for being with us. Remember to subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Apple, podcast, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasts, and as always, follow on social media just like you probably did this week with our live interpretation of what happened after the game on Saturday at Unfiltered Soccer. That's where all our bonus content lives.

[Tim Howard]

Yeah, L.D. i echo that. Tom was fantastic. Tom Boger appreciate you for being open and honest, being very, very insightful. It helps our listeners and certainly helps us, which was really cool. Thanks for all of your questions, comments and concerns and the passion in which you interact with us. It's, it's pretty special how much you love soccer and love our US Men's national team, of course, and all of our national teams. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, VW, our fan connection sponsor AT&T, our unfiltered refresh sponsor, Coors Light, as well as Cafe Bustelo and Virgin Atlantic. Have a great week. We'll see you for the live stream on Wednesday and we'll be back in two weeks with another edition of Unfiltered Soccer.

[Landon Donovan]

That's the sound of the fully electric Audi Q6E Tron and the quiet confidence of ultra smooth handling. The elevated interior reminds you this is more than an ev. This is electric performance redefined.