← Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Vermes Out at KC, FA Cup Quarterfinals, Bayern Munich vs Canada, & Your USMNT Comments
01:20:51
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- [00:00]
Landon Donovan
Miami on their way. They are, I think, the best team in the league. The question, I guess, is, is this sustainable?
- [00:06]
Tim Howard
This team is built for big games. I don't think they care if they finish fourth or first.
- [00:11]
Landon Donovan
I think they're on a mission to win MLS Cup. Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of US Soccer for the past five years.
- [00:25]
Tim Howard
LD what up? I am repping St. Joe's Soccer. My dear friend Tim Mulqueen has been hired as the head men's soccer coach there.
- [00:35]
Landon Donovan
I was up on college.
- [00:37]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I was up on Hawk Hill chatting to the boys. They started their spring season, so they're super stoked and excited. So the Hawk will never die, they tell me. So go St. Joe's I don't know what.
- [00:48]
Landon Donovan
What any of that means.
- [00:49]
Tim Howard
Fine.
- [00:49]
Landon Donovan
I love not a man. I love Mulqueen. No, I'm. I'm. I'm actually not. I'm in la. If you remember when your kids were younger, spring break is one of the worst weeks of the year. I love when you say that all week. So we decided to get out, spend three days in Manhattan Beach. Mild stomping grounds. Bill's.
- [01:09]
Tim Howard
Bill's Pancake.
- [01:11]
Landon Donovan
Bill's Pancake House did not go there this morning. Michael went after.
- [01:14]
Tim Howard
You should go. Please go.
- [01:16]
Landon Donovan
So hanging out in mb, although it rained this morning, was kind of miserable, but here in the LA studios.
- [01:22]
Tim Howard
Gorgeous.
- [01:23]
Landon Donovan
This place is cool, isn't it? Cool?
- [01:24]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [01:25]
Landon Donovan
I was like, why don't I get this in my house?
- [01:27]
Tim Howard
Also, you're not, you know, you're not a man of the people, because what do you drink? You're so la. Show. Show everybody what you're drinking.
- [01:32]
Landon Donovan
Oh, my juice. Look at this. It's called 50 Shades of Green. Kale, red leaf lettuce, mustard greens, frise tango, Green shard, red shard, arugula.
- [01:43]
Tim Howard
You don't even know what half that stuff is.
- [01:45]
Landon Donovan
Chlorophyll. Alfalfa leaves.
- [01:47]
Tim Howard
Good for you.
- [01:49]
Landon Donovan
Don't be jealous. People think this figure is not natural. I have to work hard at it.
- [01:56]
Tim Howard
Oh, man.
- [01:57]
Landon Donovan
All right, guys, follow us on social media at Unfiltered Soccer. Please subscribe to the show on YouTube. Make sure you follow us, Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. If you love what we're doing, the ratings really help. I have had so many people, Tim come up to me in the last week or so and said one I didn't know you guys had a pod. I listened to it. I loved it. These are friends of mine. These are people in the streets. So thank you guys for continuing to pass it along. Tell people about it. You can always email us@feedbackunfiltered soccer.com and after last week's US disappointment, there was so much and we'll get to that in a little bit.
- [02:29]
Tim Howard
Speaking of comments and questions and concerns, you got some soccer swag and you want me to rock it and shout your team out, Send it to me. We're all soccer all the time.
- [02:38]
Landon Donovan
And if you pay him, he'll definitely wear it. All right, let's jump into mls. We're going to start with really interesting news we got this morning. Tim, from one of our producers, sent a message in the group chat that Peter Vermese and Sporting Kansas City have mutually agreed to part ways. And generally speaking, Tim, I would say he got fired, but this is one of those. He's been there 15 years now. And I think I said early in the in the season, it just feels like it's time. And it's not a bad thing. It just feels like it's time. I want to run through before we dip into this a little bit. He's been there 15 years, which is a phenomenal accomplishment in and of itself. Right. Just doesn't happen in soccer or sports anymore. So congrats to Peter Vermes on what he's accomplished there. So they won the MLS cup in 2013. And by the way, this is a quote unquote, small market team. Right. They won the Open cup in 2012, 15 and 17. Made the playoffs 11 times of his 15 seasons. Phenomenal. Four. Four of those times they finished first in the league. The third all time in MLS wins as a coach. And he's the only person to win the MLS cup as a player and a manager with the same team. They've been poor the last couple years and they've been poor to start this season, so it just felt like it was time. But I want to say before you dive in, I played against Peter. He's a crazy competitor and what he did at originally the Kansas City Wizards and then at Sporting Kansas City has been phenomenal. And everyone there should be indebted to him for what he's done for that organization.
- [04:17]
Tim Howard
Yeah, very well said. Listen, I go back further with Peter Vermeses and almost anybody because when he played at Rutgers University for back in the early 90s, I was a ball boy at Ruckers on the sideline. I was a little Tot wearing my jersey and they were going to Final Fours. So kind of watched his rise through the men's national team again, like you played against him, played against him as a coach. He's tough as nails. He's a gentleman. But hats off to Kansas City and hats off to Peter Vermes In 15 years, by the way. I know they've had success, but also there's been some tough times in there too. And, and for both of those parties to be able to navigate that and, and spend a decade and a half at a club and really cement them as part that brilliant Kansas City sporting community and league wide. Nothing, nothing but good things to say about Peter.
- [05:02]
Landon Donovan
Burmese the challenge now, Tim, is where do they go? Right? Because when one voice has been so. We saw this at United with Alex Ferguson, we saw this with Arson Vanger. You see it in every walk of life. Bill Belichick with the Patriots. When one voice is the voice everyone hears for 15 years now what? Right. So Carrie Sagnan, who we also played with and against, will take over in an interim capacity. He's been there almost all the years that Peter's been there too. And so now the question is, who will come in and what direction do they want to go? So we'll need to follow that. No insight. This just happened, but this, this will be interesting to follow. Inter Miami, Philly. So I was, I was golfing this weekend, I know, unsurprising, unsurprising with my buddies. And I was at his stay the night at his house. We were watching. We were flipping through all the MLS games, but watching the Inter Miami game. Philly were good. And Philly that was. I said to them, I said, Philly could win this game. Like Miami are a better team. But before the game I said, Philly could win this game. But they just have. They have too many playmakers, man. And Messi's ridiculous. He gets subbed on two minutes later, scores out what ended up being the winner. He just nonstop, man.
- [06:09]
Tim Howard
Yeah, Philly were good. I'm on this Philly bandwagon. I think they play really good football. They create a lot of good chances. And in the game, they create a ton of chances. Like you said, probably could have drawn level or even one. The Messi thing is funny because, look, I think. I think what we're seeing this season is 30, 37. I mean, what we're seeing early on is I think what's going to continue. He's going to rest, they're going to manage, manage his minutes to get him through to the end of the season, you know, when, when the big important games are. And it's just how it is. It's. It's what we. 37, can't roll back time. So this is kind of what we're seeing. I think the funny part for me is when I watched the ball, it got shifted across and then it got. It goes to Messi on the, on the right hand side and I. Did you play in the Argentina game at, at Giant Stadium?
- [07:02]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, it's my 100th cup.
- [07:04]
Tim Howard
Oh, no kidding. Okay, so, yeah, I remember. I tell the story because you'll remember this, but you weren't in an area where you needed to defend Messi. You were high and you were wide. But we worked. Yeah, we worked all week. I remember Bob Bradley, it was, he was, he was relentless. He was honest, saying like, one, get to the ball. Get chest to chest with Messi armed against him. One covers. We, it was awesome. Training was great. We were like, we're gonna lock this kid up, right? The second, the second the game, the, the whistle blew and the ball went to him. It was like, you know when you play Super Mario Brothers and you get the star and then no one can touch you. No, no one got around it. And I'm thinking we trained all week to get around him. And I say that because totally, he's so special. When the ball got shifted, the center back saw his. I guess it was a left center back go tight to Messi. And I'm thinking, you got to sprint over there. Like, you have to sprint over there and give cover. You can't leave my guy on an island. He shifts it and scores. It was, it was incredible.
- [07:59]
Landon Donovan
He.
- [07:59]
Tim Howard
He is something special.
- [08:00]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, that game, I tell this story to people sometimes. So that game, I was all at my 100th cap ceremony before the game, all this stuff. So we get into the game and there's a play, Tim, I'll never forget. And there's certain plays in your career, you know, you remember very vividly. There was, I don't know, I don't even remember who was around us, but there were four of us. I swear, like on my mom's life, there were four of us around him. And he picked up the ball and all I thought in my head was, I'm just gonna, I need to hit him and knock him down. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna knock him down. So I go and I try to hit him and he just bounced off me. Next guy tried to hit him and just knock him down and stop the plate, bounce off him four times in a row, bing, bing. Like a plinko chip. Just bing, bing, bing, bing. And then he exited with the. Was like. I remember looking at someone, I was like, this, this is not normal.
- [08:42]
Tim Howard
It's. That's.
- [08:43]
Landon Donovan
Usually you can foul a guy, sure, sure, you know, but you, you couldn't even foul him.
- [08:47]
Tim Howard
But that's the special thing about him, right, L.G. if you think you tried that, I mean, every player I know game has tried that. And by the way, he can ride tackles, his bounce. He's. All I remember about Messi is playing against him twice. And then one time I was in. I was in drug testing with him after the game. So we both got called back in the doping. So I'm just sitting there desperately wanting to talk to him, but scared to death. I don't think I said boo to him. I looked the other way.
- [09:08]
Landon Donovan
Well, he didn't speak English probably either. Well, he didn't score Spanish, dude. I told you all these years, I.
- [09:12]
Tim Howard
Just want to say what up, wave, smile.
- [09:14]
Landon Donovan
He could have said hola. All right, Miami on their way. They are, I think, the best team in the league so far. So far. The question, I guess is, is this sustainable? They've got a lot of old bodies, right? Messi Suarez, Jordi Alba, Busquets. So can they sustain this? Because, knock on wood, but if they pick up an injury or two that are serious, it feels like it's going to be tough to. To keep going.
- [09:42]
Tim Howard
Here's what I think, and nobody's going to want to hear this, but I think this is, this is the facts. The greatest thing for this current Miami team is that they won a supporter shield last year, right? So they don't have to chase that. That's off the table. I don't think Miami gives a good God darn whether they want to support a shield, right? Which means this team is built for big games. Okay? So I think it's not even going to be Messi getting his minutes managed by Mascarano. I think you're going to. I don't think they care if they finish fourth or first. I don't. I think they care if they finish fourth and they go into the playoffs healthy. I think they're like, sweet. Good. This is great. I don't think they're concerned with winning any prizes in the regular season. I just don't. And so I think you, to answer your question, they can obviously pick up knocks throughout, throughout the year, but I do think a lot of these older Players are going to have their minutes managed with an eye just for, for the playoffs.
- [10:38]
Landon Donovan
You know what else they've made very clear they don't care about is what anyone thinks managing minutes. Right. So. And obviously you dealt with that in Houston when he didn't go to Houston, and they just don't care. Mashrano doesn't care. Jorge Maas doesn't care. Beckham doesn't care. They're just like, I think they're on a mission to win MLS Cup. So it's.
- [10:54]
Tim Howard
Which is great, which is great for them.
- [10:56]
Landon Donovan
By the way, the Atlanta game, NYCFC was pretty gnarly. The defending was shocking, but an exciting game. As a neutral fan, just fun to watch. Almiron back on the score sheet for Atlanta was awesome. This was just, this was a, this was a microcosm, Tim, of what's happened in the league. And we'll get into this at some point with, you know, MLS mechanism for spending money and stuff. Teams for whatever reason, just do not spend money on defensive players anymore. They just don't. And the mechanisms are set up to go after young attacking players. And also because now teams are able to flip those players and sell them for real money. Right. So the business side takes precedent, but most teams are just not set up to defend. And this game was a perfect example. And the next one, the San Diego FC LAFC game, just goals everywhere and really poor defending.
- [11:49]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I mean, the point you make is well taken. Defending in the MLS is woeful. Like it's woeful when I, I remember and it wasn't that long ago that I was, I was playing in the MLS and it, the ideas aren't there, the tactical spatial awareness isn't there. The alarm, you know, when you see, when, when you see really good defenders, the alarm bells are going off constantly. And you can see by their body language and their motion, like, I know that pass was on, but I'm launching this into rosette because guess what? That's what, that's what my instinct was telling me. The amount of poor judgment and decisions by, by defenders, the lack of. I mean, it's like a jagged edge. You know, when you talk about a back line being rigid, I mean, there's players all over the place, stepping in places they shouldn't don't, not running into channels, no cover. It's. Defending is woeful. To your point, I think it's league wide, but to your point, like it. It's just not. People don't spend money in those areas and it's A shame.
- [12:51]
Landon Donovan
And they don't, they don't spend time on it. Tim, my theory now in all of this is that it's a little bit of like the trickle down from the Pep Guardiola stuff that teams now are trying. It's around the world. You're always copying, right, Whatever the best teams do. But because City for so long had 80% of the ball, their defending looks very specific. Their defending is in the opponent's half, 1v1 for a few seconds. Win that battle, win the ball, go attack again. And that's what, that's what they're defending looks like. Now, if you're going to play the way City play and you don't have the players they have, you're going to end up defending. Like real teams have to defend. Like, like, like the way teams are supposed to defend. And you don't work on that. People don't sit in their own end and play eight against six in training, and the six have to just defend and defend and defend for 15 minutes. Teams don't do that anymore because they're trying to build and play the way that City plays. So there's a whole, there's a whole mix of reasons why. But as a fan of the game, I love seeing it and, and I'm sure the league isn't pissed off about it. Goals are great and the attacking's great and. Yeah, well, it's fun to watch.
- [14:01]
Tim Howard
Well, to add clarity to what you're saying, because I talk about the Pep Guardiola effect all the time and I, and I say in a cheeky way that he's, he's ruined so many coaches because everyone thinks they can play like his teams play. And the thing that incenses me in football, when people say, like, we're a pressing team. Shut up. You're not a pressing team. It's impossible to press for 45 minutes or 90 minutes. What city have done and they've cracked the code is like you said, so. And he did this at Barcelona. He started it. He's got the best players in the world who can keep the ball for as long as they want, right?
- [14:35]
Landon Donovan
When it turns over, literally forever, forever.
- [14:37]
Tim Howard
So when the ball turns over, they attack like dogs, right? They put you under so much pressure and they win it back. Or, and I've played against some of the, some, some of these teams that, that do this really well. You end up launching the ball, right? He, he, he. Because he can buy the best defenders in the world. He had at a time. Kyle Walker and Diaz and Stones Right. So they can win a track meet, they get it, recycle it, and they're back on top of you. So like. But teams think they can press all the time and they can't. Man City, Man City presses because they can, they can possess the ball better than anybody else. So yeah, it's a, it's an interest and, and I think. But circling back, you can't play like, you can't play like that if you don't spend the money on defenders.
- [15:21]
Landon Donovan
That's right.
- [15:22]
Tim Howard
Simple.
- [15:22]
Landon Donovan
And that's not that. I think eventually that will happen in mls, but right now it's not happening. Correct. The, the nightcap was San Diego FC, LAFC. This was a great game. The first 40 minutes, Tim. Honestly, it could have been six nothing for San Diego. They absolutely destroyed LAFC. And this was classic LAFC. They're getting pummeled, pummeled. And all of a sudden just bang, bang, two plays, they score two goals and now you go right into halftime and it's three, two. And I was with my buddies on the couch, I'm like, oh, here we go. They're good. Like, second half was a little bit of a dud. LAFC got a red card, a second yellow card, and it kind of the game fizzled out a little. But the first 40 minutes were absolutely electric. And San Diego FC, I have to say, man, if they can stay healthy and it's a big if, right? They're getting Chuqui Lozano's on his way back. If they can stay healthy. Their first 12, 13, 14 are good enough. Definitely good enough to get in the playoffs and good enough to make some waves. If they don't stay healthy, they're not deep at all. But their first 12, 13, 14 are.
- [16:29]
Tim Howard
Very good question, do they still have a DP spot open? I can't remember.
- [16:34]
Landon Donovan
Or did they fill it shook your Lozano dryer? I don't know if Luca De La Torre was a dp. I think he probably.
- [16:42]
Tim Howard
I'm just, I'm just wondering, just wondering if they'd bring, if they bring in a big hitter in the summer. You know what I mean?
- [16:47]
Landon Donovan
It's a good question. Well, they're. They were talking about De Bruyne. I know, I know.
- [16:50]
Tim Howard
That's what I'm saying.
- [16:51]
Landon Donovan
I wonder if Luca. I'm trying to get. I forget if Luca De La Torre was a DP or not. But yeah, they're talking about De Bruyne. You know, I don't know if that's the right move. Their midfield three is really Good.
- [17:01]
Tim Howard
I think. I think De Br is always the right.
- [17:04]
Landon Donovan
Well, I know he's good, but you know how it is, dude. When you get the end and it's hard and it's the summer and travel and he's not used to it and there's going to be an adaptation period. Right. So for sure. But they are good, man. Yeah, they're good.
- [17:14]
Tim Howard
They're fun to watch.
- [17:15]
Landon Donovan
Last thing on mls. Speaking of lafc, FIFA. This was so such a weird thing. This is so FIFA. FIFA are considering LAFC and Club America playing a one game match to decide who goes to the Club World cup this summer because Club Leon was not allowed to go in because Pachuca and Club Leon have the same owner. So only one team could go in. I guess they found out which team they care about more. Pachuca went in and Club Leon didn't. So now they're deciding. We're hearing rumors that LAFC and Club America may play a one off and we were trying to figure out why LAFC and Club America were the next two in. I think I have a theory as to why you want those two teams in. I don't know if it's merit based.
- [18:00]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [18:02]
Landon Donovan
But yeah, just a weird. I guess a weird dynamic. Yeah, it's strange, but pretty cool.
- [18:08]
Tim Howard
Good for one of those teams. For sure.
- [18:09]
Landon Donovan
Yeah. Why do you think, Tim, LAFC and Club America were the ones they chose?
- [18:14]
Tim Howard
I think, I think you understand why I would also say I love, I love Club America. I mean, it's such a massive club. It's so crazy, you know, the support they have. Brilliant stadium. But anyway. Yeah, we know why. All right.
- [18:26]
Landon Donovan
We'll see. All right. It was not a Premier League weekend. It was an FA cup weekend. I have to say, I. I just wanted the Premier League back so bad. That's fine. Some of these games were good. So Fulham lose 3 nil at home to Palace. And this was interesting for American soccer fans because Anthony Robinson missed the Nations League semifinal and final. If people remember, he had. He was essentially resting his body is. Is the way I would say it because he's. He's had a long season, he's played a lot of games. So he missed the Nations League games. And I was expecting Tim, if I'm being honest, that he was going to be out a few weeks and I think I was naive.
- [19:09]
Tim Howard
Okay.
- [19:09]
Landon Donovan
And now I'm kind of coming to grips with what really happened here. Yeah.
- [19:13]
Tim Howard
You don't love. You don't love.
- [19:14]
Landon Donovan
And then he ended up. He ended up starting the Next weekend for Fulham. And if I'm a national team fan and I don't really care about Fulham, but I care about Anthony Robinson, I'm pretty pissed off, okay? Because the team suffered through the Nations League, and I'm not saying one player would have definitely made the difference, but he's a big player for our national team, and so he ended up. He ended up not playing Nations League, ended up playing for Fulham, and they lost. And I'm curious. I want to ask this question to our fans, and you guys always do a great job of. Of answering honestly and giving us really good feedback. So please do. Are you. Are you angry at that? Did you. Not that he didn't know. Do you get it? Do you understand? Do you not care? Are you happy? Took the break? Right. I'd just be curious where people. Where people fall on this one.
- [20:02]
Tim Howard
Yeah. I mean, what's. What's. What's your big gripe? You said. You said you were naive to it a little bit. So what's your. What's a big gripe?
- [20:08]
Landon Donovan
All right, so look, this is about priorities, okay? And I. I did this in my career a couple times for friendly games. I remember one time I had a conversation with Jurgen. I. My hamstring was not in good shape. I've been, like, dealing with it for two weeks. And we had friendlies. I think they were in Florida. Yeah, there were two friendlies. I think it was October time frame. And it was right before MLS cup playoffs, too. And I remember calling Jurgen and I said, I need to rest this hamstring. I remember me for a long time. Do you remember this?
- [20:39]
Tim Howard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:40]
Landon Donovan
And he understandably did not take it well. And. And it put me in a hard spot. I had to. I was hoping he'd say, look, no problem. These are friendlies. It's. I. I know you. I've seen you a million times. Not a big deal.
- [20:50]
Tim Howard
It's also Jurgen Kinsman we're dealing with. So that.
- [20:52]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, no, I get it. Whatever. I get it. So he was not happy. I had to make a decision. I made the decision that I thought was best to not go to the camps. Now, these were friendlies. These were not. There was no trophy at stake. But I understand that side of the argument. So this is about priority. So Anthony Robin had. Anthony Robinson had. Has three competitions he cared about in the last two or three weeks. Okay. The Premier League there, I think four points out of a Champions League spot.
- [21:18]
Tim Howard
Yep.
- [21:19]
Landon Donovan
The FA cup, which they're in. They were in the quarterfinals. Now they're out of it and the Nations League. Right. So these are all three important tournaments. And his decision was I am going to not focus and not put my priority on the national team. I'm going to put my priority with Fulham for the FA cup and then the rest of the season. Now, I understand that. I've been in his shoes. I get it. But it's your national team and it's your country and I, I didn't like the decision personally.
- [21:50]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think what you're, what, what you're speaking to is kind of what, what I see as well. I mean it, you know, he, he put on Instagram that nobody hates missing matches more than me. It's very, it was a very difficult decision that I, I don't doubt and I certainly don't doubt him. Um, he's a, he's a player that I respect and I like as, as a person. Same think the world of him. Um, look, he, if, if he had to whatever issue it was a tendonitis or it was something, something like that.
- [22:18]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [22:18]
Tim Howard
That he was dealing with, it needed rest, it needed a 10 day rest or something and he's manage, he's managing that. Um, I, I think, I think when, you know, from, from a U.S. soccer standpoint, he could have, he could have rested, he could have rested it the Premier League weekend before, which would have given him a week.
- [22:39]
Landon Donovan
Right.
- [22:40]
Tim Howard
He could have played in the US Games and then rested it for the FA Cup. Right. He chose to take the rest during the Nations League. But again, and I think that is what we're seeing, that's his choice. But I think on a, on a level of priorities, it was Premier League, FA cup, men's national team. And, and that's, I think it's probably speaks to a bigger problem on, as a. Yeah. At the, at the national team level. And it's what I, it's what I said was my biggest concern. I actually said it's going into the last World cup in 2022. This group of players, I think I mentioned on the last pod as well there aren't any more competitive games after the Gold Cup. Right. And I just, I, I wonder how many games between now and the World cup. The best group of players that we have will play together.
- [23:35]
Landon Donovan
Right. We'll be, it'll be zero. It'll probably be zero.
- [23:38]
Tim Howard
Likely be zero. Really?
- [23:39]
Landon Donovan
Really? Right.
- [23:40]
Tim Howard
So. So that's, that's, that is a problem. And, and you know, I think this speaks to the bigger issue.
- [23:46]
Landon Donovan
I, I want to be clear I respect Anthony. I respect his decision. I. He's had a phenomenal season. I don't like that you are. This was not. He got knock on wood, broke his leg the day before and couldn't go. He made a conscious choice and he could have made it two weeks prior and missed a Fulham League game and come into the Nations League. Right. And. And I don't like it, but it's over now. Sure. And I. Again, I'd be curious to. To hear what. What people have to say about it. The other few games. Matt Turner, unfortunately did not start for Palace. He had started the previous three matches. Just. Can you walk us through real quick, Tim, before we go to break? How. Because you've. You've dealt with this too, right? Where you were kind of the second goalkeeper and you'd play the cup games as a goalkeeper, but then not play the more meaningful games.
- [24:37]
Tim Howard
Funny. Funny part of that. So my first year at Manchester United, I won the FA cup, played most of the games and played in the final. My second year, I had lost my spot and I didn't. I played a couple of games, but I didn't play in the final. And funny enough, we. I. I had saved a couple penalties and I won the Community Shield in a shootout. So Sir Alex Ferguson at like, I don't even know, like, right after regular time, going into the. Going into extra time, he was like, tim, go warm up. I'm putting you on for penalties. Sure as heck. I went and warmed up. He forgot to put me on. He told me after the game, we went to penalties. He said he forgot Roy Carroll was in goal. We lost. He literally said. He said, I forgot, which is crazy. But anyway, that's not the point. So the following year, my third season and final season at. At United, playing in the League cup, and. And I played. Yeah, I played most of the games, maybe played three or four games and we get to the semifinal. This is when they brought Edwin Vanisart. And so, like, as a. As a second goalkeeper, the only games you're really getting are, like, cup games, you know, so I'm having a good run. So I'm like, all right. Like, I'm no slouch. Like, I'm, you know, I've done good things at Man United, so I'm getting Cup. The cup games. And this is League cup, by the way. And we get to the semifinal, I think it was against Blackburn at their place. And Sir Alex Ferguson pulled me and he said. He said, look, I'm starting Edwin tonight. And I was. I was Irate. I was furious, man. I was furious. But it didn't matter, you know, he didn't care that I was furious. He wanted to win the game and he went with the best. The best goalkeeper. And we got to. We got to the final, and then we won the final, right? And so you just got to deal with it. It sucks. It sucks. And. But their manager is going to play the. The best goalkeeper, and he thinks that. That he needed to play the number one. It's tough luck, man. It's tough luck. And it's just the way it goes, and it sucks. And I wish I could tell you that there's some formula, but there's not. You know, you. You be better. And that's what I had to do, be better. You know, that's what I was. And I wasn't. Edwin Vanishar was clearly better than me.
- [26:43]
Landon Donovan
So, yeah, it's just tough for. For national team fans and for Matt Turner, that was his chance to get some games right? So, you know, obviously, I'm guessing he's not going to play in the semifinal and, you know, and the final there, Villa won as well. They beat Preston three nil away. And Man, City, they could win a trophy, Tim. After all of this, they could win a trophy.
- [27:02]
Tim Howard
I mean, that's the. That's the crazy thing they've had. I mean, their downfall has been so widely publicized, and yet if they wouldn't, there's a part of me that kind of wants them to win the FA cup just because, like, we love seeing greatness.
- [27:17]
Landon Donovan
And you like that.
- [27:18]
Tim Howard
That would be amazing. It would be amazing. I mean, they've got every chance, right? I mean, a semifinal round. When is it? It's this April 26th. Forest versus city and palace versus villa. I mean, all Premier League heavyweights, right? So, like, it'll be good, right? So US lnt. That's US on us. Wnt. Talk to me about this US Brazil preview. How you feeling about it?
- [27:42]
Landon Donovan
It's going to be interesting. Normally, I wouldn't put too much into this. However, there's a few things interesting. So Trin Rodman is back, first time since the Olympics. So that's good. No Sophia Wilson now and no Mallory Swanson. Sophie is pregnant. And Mal, who is out due to personal matters. She's out. Been out with Chicago, too. Okay. Couple things that are interesting. So, Trent, first she. She divulged that.
- [28:08]
Tim Howard
Never good.
- [28:09]
Landon Donovan
Back.
- [28:10]
Tim Howard
Never good.
- [28:10]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, she's. She's had some issues and she said, honestly, I don't think my back will ever be 100% not good. It's an issue. It's not one specific thing. It's just the way my back structured and it's more so management than a curable fix. So this is a problem because with a lot of things that are, that you have to manage in your career, Tim, injury wise.
- [28:31]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [28:32]
Landon Donovan
A back is not a good one.
- [28:34]
Tim Howard
Right.
- [28:34]
Landon Donovan
Because you've got. Yeah, there's just a lot of things can go wrong. So I do worry a little bit about that with her and, and hopefully she has the awareness and the people around her to make sure that she, you know, like Messi at his age, like you're managing it right so she can play.
- [28:50]
Tim Howard
Yeah, yeah, it's tough. I mean back, backs. Backs are really, really difficult for, for a lot of reasons, but it is, it's the one injury that you just like it. It's your mobility and that's what she's built on. She's got brilliant pace, really strong, obviously great tidy feet in and around the penalty area. But like ultimately it's her explosiveness that, that kind of gets her off the mark. So hopefully that she can manage that. And you know, we don't, we don't see any sort of demise because she's absolutely sensational to watch.
- [29:20]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, I, Tim, seeing her in person, she's insane. Yeah, she. I've never seen a woman move like that in the way on the field. Like, it's insane. She is so powerful.
- [29:31]
Tim Howard
She is.
- [29:32]
Landon Donovan
The other reason I think this interesting is Emma. Emma Hayes had a quote that I thought was awesome and I'm going to read it. She said, I think it's going to be a hard camp with two really tough games. I know for sure I'm going to be really tough. And I'm looking forward to how the team react. One after a loss, but two to things I want to see from the team that I absolutely am not going to compromise on. And my first thought, Tim, if I'm being honest, is I want Mauricio. Same thing. I mean if he literally just want to hear that, can he just copy paste that quote and give it to a reporter and say the same thing? And I know Emma a little bit. Not great, but she ain't messing around. She's not messing around, dude. She knows, you know, the, the great. She's not gonna say that just to say.
- [30:20]
Tim Howard
No, no, no, no, no. She, she, she's toug nails as well. Listen, the one thing about this, and I often times think, well, think back to my own career all the time because it's it. There's so many parallels, but it never, you know, you know, when, like, and we played together so many times, you know, when you didn't play well or you're coming off a loss. Like, this is amazing from Emma, I love this. But, like, it never me. It never meant anything to me. Like, what, What? Like a, if a coach is like, say that to me, I'm thinking good training should be hard, man. Like, like, we stunk it up last.
- [30:50]
Landon Donovan
Time or we lost it to each other or whatever.
- [30:52]
Tim Howard
Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking, like, I'm getting on the plane, coming into camp thinking, like, you better be working hard. Like, this is you, you better be leading and driving this, this team forward. So, like, it's so interesting. But, but I love, I love the quote. I also, you know, as we, as we referenced, you have Sophia Wilson's out, Mallory's out. Like, it's, you know, some players need to step up. And I think she's probably, she's probably seeing that like you all of a sudden, we don't have our star necessarily, so everyone else is going to drop, drop the ball. It's not, that's not how it's going to work on my watch. So I really, I really like how direct she was. And look, it's great. I mean, she said it, which means she definitely is going to back it up, which means it's going to be a hard camp. So we'll see the reaction.
- [31:33]
Landon Donovan
It's going to be fun to watch. I'm actually now excited to watch these two games. All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we will share our thoughts on the Alphonso Davies controversy. If you don't know about it, we'll fill you in. It's pretty interesting. And we'll answer lots and lots of questions. We're going to spend a lot of time on the mailbag this week because you guys sent in a lot of stuff about the US Men's National Team. Stay with us right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim. As always, presented by Volkswagen. See you soon.
- [32:09]
Tim Howard
The Unfiltered Soccer podcast is brought to you by Volkswagen, the presenting partner of U.S. soccer.
- [32:14]
Landon Donovan
Since 2019, Volkswagen has been on a mission to drive the future of the sport we all love. And VW is committed to making it more diverse, inclusive, and accessible for everyone.
- [32:24]
Tim Howard
They're not just talking about it, they're out there doing it. VW's partnerships, programs and soccer clinics are unlocking opportunities for the next generation of players and fans.
- [32:33]
Landon Donovan
As a longtime friend of Volkswagen, I've seen firsthand how VW are connecting with fans and driving the sport forward. From working with them on clinics to being part of their incredible campaigns, it's clear U.S. soccer is truly powered by the people.
- [32:46]
Tim Howard
Thank you to VW for being our presenting partner. Learn more about how VW are supporting us soccer@vw.com There are people out there.
- [32:54]
Landon Donovan
All across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf, like champion speed golfer Lauren Kupp, who plays faster than anyone else, and Will Lowry, whose work in the golf community inspires more kids to get into the game. As a champion partner of the Masters, bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.
- [33:25]
Tim Howard
Spring Fest and EGO days are here.
- [33:27]
Landon Donovan
At Lowe's right now.
- [33:29]
Tim Howard
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Landon Donovan
Trimmer, blower or mower kit.
- [33:35]
Tim Howard
Plus shop today for new and exclusive.
- [33:38]
Landon Donovan
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- [33:39]
Tim Howard
So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number.
- [33:43]
Landon Donovan
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- [33:46]
Tim Howard
Only at Lowe's we help you save offer valid through 42 selection varies by location while supplies last right LD something that came across our desk that is of relevance because it's a it's a big matter but also because it deals with CONCACAF and Canada and that's the injury to Alfonso Davis suffered a torn ACL in the third place game against the US and there's some people not happy particular his agent and Bayern Munich and I think to set give context I'll read these quotes because they're really interesting. David's agent Nadal husse said to one soccer I'm very disappointed Alfonso was not 100% after the match Mexico game. It was planned that he was not going to start against the US on Saturday night. The expectation is that he wouldn't be in the starting 11 as captain. I feel he was pressured to start the game by the coach. Alfonso is not the kind of guy to say no to those moments. He ended up playing and look what happened. Canada soccer needs to do a better job managing these players in in my opinion Alphonso was down and obviously disappointed. So on Bayern Munich's chief executive Jan Christian Driessen said, we are demanding a full investigation into the events from Canada Soccer and expressly reserve the right to take legal action. Sending a clearly injured player with a damaged knee on a 12 hour flight without thorough medical assessment, in our view is grossly negligent and clear and a clear breach of medical duty of care. The participation of Davies, who already had muscular problems in the game and, and he says, this is the interesting part, in a match of no sporting significance is incomprehensible from our viewpoint. Canada Soccer then released a statement, said that they followed all protocols, they were in constant communication with, with Bayern Munich, so on and so forth. So a lot to unpack there, a lot of opinions. Where do you stand on this?
- [35:47]
Landon Donovan
I got a lot here. Okay, first of all, devastated for Alphonso Davies. Sure. People don't realize, you know, there's 13 months, 15 months till the World Cup. There's no guarantee he's back to, I mean, I think he will be back, but to full strength, I don't know before the World cup. And it's a World cup in his own, his home country. So I'm, I'm devastated for him. There's a lot to unpack here, Tim. So first of all, I have no idea why an agent is speaking to some media, not, not speaking to a media member. Agents speak to media all the time, but letting them quote him and not speaking off the record about these things is ridiculous. As a starting point, okay, you got an issue, you take, you call Canada or you call Canada, you call Bayern Munich, you guys all get on the phone or get on a flight, get together and figure out what happens.
- [36:45]
Tim Howard
Okay?
- [36:46]
Landon Donovan
Second of all, Alfonso Davies is the captain. This is not an 18 year old. If he was not fit to play the game, he would not play the game. Okay? I, I, I'm not going to guess what people's. I wasn't in the room, so I don't know if his knee was 100% fine or 0% fine or somewhere in between. If he did not feel right playing the game, he would not have played the game. He would not, Tim. If he's an 18 year old, I would have said maybe he got pressured into it. This guy's played hundreds of games, played for Canada. Bunch, he's the captain, you go to the coach, you say it's a third place game. I know it's usa, it matters, whatever. My knee is not in a good place. I'm not playing, period. End of story. So if he felt good enough to go on the field, that's on him.
- [37:34]
Tim Howard
Okay?
- [37:34]
Landon Donovan
Now whatever happens in the after aftermath, I don't know if Canada evaluated him or Not. But the reality is, is ACL's torn. Right. So we can fight over whether they evaluated him or, by the way, putting him back on a 12 hour flight, did that do more damage? You know, not really. I mean, should he probably have stayed in Canada if it was torn? Yeah, maybe for a few days. But he's going to go back there and get the surgery anyway. Probably. Or he's going to fly somewhere to get the surgery. Not a big deal. I think this is a bunch of people who are trying to blame someone else.
- [38:08]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [38:08]
Landon Donovan
And in the end, again, I'm devastated for Alfonso. He's a phenomenal player. But if he wasn't right, Tim, he should not have played the game. If it's a World cup final, get it? I get it. MLS cup final and you're whatever. Or a Champions League final or whatever. I get it. But if he wasn't right, he wouldn't have played.
- [38:25]
Tim Howard
Yeah, no, I, I, I'm, I'm in full, full agreement with you. I just think the agent, the agent speaking publicly like that, obviously for me is, is a big issue. Bayern Munich. And look, by the way, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I don't have to agree with it, but Bayern Munich saying it's a nothing game. It's a third place game.
- [38:45]
Landon Donovan
Right.
- [38:45]
Tim Howard
Unless you're Canada and you. And, and you've had no relevance in the sporting landscape of soccer when it comes to concacaf. And now you get a chance to get one over on the big bad bully. That's the U.S. the dominant team in the region. It kind of does matter now.
- [38:58]
Landon Donovan
I mean, it mattered to Canada.
- [39:00]
Tim Howard
Yeah, it mattered to Canada. There's a lot of people wearing red shirts with maple leaves on them that's. They care. Bayern Munich doesn't care, but they care. And the problem is, and having played in Europe, they think they're holier than thou. Being the captain of your country. I don't care what country, what size it is. Being the captain of your country, you know, this means more. And the fact of the matter is, and the biggest, the biggest point is the one you made. Alfonso Davies is an adult. He's the captain. He would have had a conversation with Jesse Marsh. And I don't believe for a second what that agent's saying, that he was forced into playing, right? What? He what? Jesse Marsh gave him puppy dog eyes and said, oh, please, you're the captain. I need you. He didn't. You can have a conversation. I play Landon. I played against the LA Galaxy and we won in a shootout in whatever round that was in. In. In mls, right. We moved on to the Western Conference finals. In between, there was an international game. It was our set. We lost to Costa Rica in World cup qualifying. The first game, this was for 2018. The second game was Mexico in Columbus. I tore my groin off the. Off the bone. Snapped it.
- [40:10]
Landon Donovan
Right.
- [40:11]
Tim Howard
You remember? I should have never played the game. Landon. I. Coming off that double overtime, whatever it was, penalty shootout win against la, My groin was hanging off. I barely trained all week. But it was Mexico. I made the decision. I w. Now, in hindsight, was it a dumb decision? Yeah, maybe. You know, if you're talking. If you're talking purely medical, it was a dumb decision. But guess what? My agent had nothing to do with it. Right? It had. It had, like my club, if anybody should have been pissed off, it was the Colorado Rapids. We ended up going to the Western Conference final finals and losing. Not just because I wasn't there, but it's. I was a big piece of that team. So, like, I made the choice. And. And unfortunately, I got. I got a serious injury put me out six, eight months. So, like, that's. That's on me. Like, this has nothing to do with Bayern Munich. This has nothing to do with the agent. If Alphonso Davies thought he could play, he played. And if he couldn't have, then he would. He. He wouldn't. Simple facts.
- [41:08]
Landon Donovan
And I'm sure, Tim, that's awesome. Like, that's exactly right. And I'm sure they had a conversation. Right. If he didn't feel right, I'm sure he and Jesse Marsh had a conversation. Yep. And if you're a coach, your job's to win. And you say, alfonso, if you feel like you're good to go, I could really use you. If Alfonso stood up to him and said, jesse, I am not right. Jesse would have said, okay, you can't force him to play anyway.
- [41:33]
Tim Howard
Right.
- [41:33]
Landon Donovan
What are you going to do, carry him on the field?
- [41:35]
Tim Howard
Right. Right.
- [41:35]
Landon Donovan
100, you know, right.
- [41:39]
Tim Howard
He could have.
- [41:39]
Landon Donovan
Could have just sat on the field and not played if, you know, if he felt that way. So once. I don't buy that. That's a bunch of bullshit. And like, I, again, I am devastated for him. And this is a messy, messy situation. I. What I worry about, Tim, is how does this impact third place games going forward? Right? I mean, like, you know, this is another feather in the cap for People say that should go away. How does this impact club country? You know, dealings going forward with things? Well, look, Alfonso, Davey tore his acl because the coach this and the federation that and whatever. And so it's just bad. It's a bad look for everyone. I think it was unnecessary. I don't think Bayern Munich needed to come out and say that. I don't think Alfonso, clearly, he. The agent said it with his blessing.
- [42:27]
Tim Howard
Right.
- [42:27]
Landon Donovan
You're not gonna let me just go?
- [42:28]
Tim Howard
Maybe.
- [42:29]
Landon Donovan
Well, if he does, he's. He's not my agent anymore, I'll tell you that.
- [42:33]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [42:33]
Landon Donovan
So, like, there's just unnecessary. They could have dealt with this so much better. And someone, you know, someone needed to own up, particularly Alfonso, and just say, guys, this was on me. Let it go. Like, this is on me.
- [42:45]
Tim Howard
I still want to hear from. I still want to hear from him.
- [42:47]
Landon Donovan
Because, captain, look, I do, too.
- [42:48]
Tim Howard
Club versus country will never go away. There's always. There's always issues. The most important thing is that Alfonso gets fit, has a good recovery, and is back on the pitch in. In a speedy time.
- [43:00]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, let's hope so. Before the World cup, it's time for.
- [43:03]
Tim Howard
The Fan connection, presented by AT&T. Every week, we invite you, the listener, to connect with us by submitting your questions. The best way to grow the game of soccer in the US is to keep asking questions and keep talking about this sport. We all love at, AT and T. Connecting changes everything. And on uslnt, our connections with you will help grow the game.
- [43:23]
Landon Donovan
Okay, we're going to move straight into the AT&T fan connection. Ms. Jordan, please come on in. Lots and lots, as I'm sure you attest to. Jordan. Oh, Borden.
- [43:34]
Tim Howard
Jordan.
- [43:35]
Landon Donovan
What's happening? A lot of feedback from last week or what?
- [43:37]
C
So much feedback. So much feedback. I've never seen this many emails or YouTube comments. It took a really long time to dig through it all, but, well, we're ready to go.
- [43:47]
Landon Donovan
That's your favorite time of the week, Jordan.
- [43:49]
Tim Howard
Yeah, that's right.
- [43:49]
Landon Donovan
All right.
- [43:50]
C
It's weird not getting to dance into the beginning with the.
- [43:53]
Landon Donovan
It's fun, isn't it?
- [43:53]
Tim Howard
Fine.
- [43:54]
C
Yeah. All right, let's start with what I think is maybe one of the loveliest comments that we had. This is a very nice one.
- [44:01]
Tim Howard
Is it about you?
- [44:02]
C
No, it's not. It's not. None of these are about me. It's not about me, guys. Okay, this one is from Michael via YouTube. Boys. I was at the DMZ the day you visited.
- [44:15]
Landon Donovan
Oh, wow.
- [44:16]
C
Additionally, since I was stationed in South Korea for the O2 World Cup, I was able to witness firsthand the determination and desire that that team had it was almost like a Rudy moment. Of course we had first class players, but what made y'all special was having world class hearts. I then went on to be in Germany for the O6 World Cup. I'm incredibly grateful for having experienced those times. I will never forget them so than you.
- [44:41]
Tim Howard
Amazing. Wow. Love that. Thanks for that comment.
- [44:43]
Landon Donovan
The only problem with that comment is we are men, Michael, not boys. But I. I just want to tag on to that real quick. So thank you Michael for your service and thank you for the support. Second that 2006 World cup, although it was a mostly a bad memory for me personally because I was terrible. The national anthem in Kaiser Slaughter for us Italy with so many of the people from Ramstein and other bases around Germany, there are like 30,000Americans. Was a top five super chills right now talking about top five moment in my life, that national anthem. So thank you.
- [45:20]
Tim Howard
Incredible was that. Did we draw that game?
- [45:23]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, we did. Amazing game.
- [45:24]
C
This one's from Matt via YouTube. The fact that Burhalter is doing well with Chicago, who are perennial basement dwellers, says in parentheses, I think speaks volumes. It has to be the players at this point.
- [45:37]
Landon Donovan
I mean, I've been saying for months, Burh Halter should be back with. I'm just kidding with the national team. Okay, so I think we learned a lot in the last week or so, right? We talked a lot about this, Tim. It's really easy in sports to blame it on a coach and fire a coach because it's one person versus either 12 in the NBA or 25 in soccer or 70 in football or whatever. We learned a lot that it doesn't matter what the coach does, says, where they're from, what they sound like, what their tactics are, whatever. If you don't show up and play with pride, none of it matters. So I think there's some merit in that. There is.
- [46:25]
C
Speaking of coaches, Montgomery via YouTube said, I like Pochettino, but I find it ironic that most of the conversation was about having heart, pride and fight. And the one coach who has excelled at creating that environment is Jesse Marsh, who is now 2 and 0 against the U.S. men's National Team.
- [46:42]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I mean, look, Jesse will tell you he felt hard done by to not to not get the US job.
- [46:48]
Landon Donovan
Boy, will he tell you.
- [46:50]
Tim Howard
And he's got a chip on his shoulder and you know, that's again, he's got. He's got players fighting and wanting to run through the wall for him. And that's a big. It's a. You know, that's A, it's an important piece. And I think sometimes when you don't have some, like, U. S teams have had talent, like a couple guys with. With magic in their boots, you know, Landon one of them, Clint, one of them, Claudio Reyna. At times we've had special players. You know, B's is another one. But like, at the bedrock of. Of the U.S. national team has always been like, fight and hunger and pride. And I think so often you're like, you want more. You want more expansion, be more expansive and better attacking. And then you get that, and then you lose some of. Some of the necessary stuff. And, and when you look back, being tough and, and. And stout and hard to beat isn't a bad thing. It's not a negative thing. It's a. It's a huge positive. And so I think there has to be a balance of both.
- [47:44]
C
Let's talk about some of the players because there were a lot of comments about specific players. This one From Raymond via YouTube. Our best player was Diego Luna. MLS players showed up and played with. I feel like you guys talked a little bit about him last week. Here's something I haven't heard from one analyst with regards to public support of the US Men's national team. Give us Fans a product to be excited about. There's nothing excited about the US Men's national team except for Diego Luna and Tim Weah. Build a team around those guys. Even if we lose, at least we will lose with our hearts on the field.
- [48:20]
Landon Donovan
It's actually a really good comment. Someone that I respect a lot, a good friend of mine who's. Who's in the soccer world. I was talking to this person about the game and he said, honestly, Landon, I haven't watched in a long time. And I said, what? You're in the sport? And he said, it's just not enjoyable. It's not entertaining, it's not enjoyable. It seems like they don't care. Sometimes I just don't watch. And that really hit me. I was like, whoa, you're not watching your national team. But I get it. Like, I kind of get it. If you turn on those two games, if you were a fan for the first time watching that, you'd go, what's the big deal with this? I don't want to watch this. You know, I don't blame them.
- [49:03]
C
So here's a question for you from Adam via email. If you wanted to show a person the best example of Team usa, what is the one game to watch? It doesn't even have to be one that you guys played in either.
- [49:17]
Landon Donovan
Well, I mean, we just referenced it. But that Italy game in the World cup was. I mean, I'll never forget Brian McBride getting elbowed. I mean, he got elbowed gazillion times. I remember him against Mexico in the World cup, getting elbow, and it was like baseball on his face. I remember him bleeding down. But just that game, if you have a chance, go back 06. I don't know if you can YouTube it or whatever. Google it. Just watch that game against Italy where we're down a man. Another great game that you can watch. And I'm speaking games that I was part of because I remember them more vividly, but there's a lot of others. There's a game in the Confederations cup against Brazil in 2009, and not the final, but the game in the first round that we're losing 3, 0, and we're down a man, and we were like, all right, let's not make it four or six or eight zero. And we end up losing three zero. And on goal difference later in the tournament, because we only lost 3 0, we ended up getting to the final. So that game was just like, everybody on board. Doesn't matter what it takes.
- [50:19]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [50:20]
C
Landon, you just mentioned Brazil. There's a comment in here that I thought was really interesting because, well, you were just talking about Alfonso Davies and the Canadian national team. But David, via email, said, I wonder if at this point, the US Isn't dissimilar to the challenges any developed national side has. If Brazil can lose to Germany at home the way they just did, it seems that group is going through something similar to many of the national teams. So I hope Patino is right that some teams go through these periods and still succeed at the World Cup. I guess time will tell. What do you guys think about if we zoom out from the U.S. men's National Team? Like, is there anything that's happening with other national teams that makes you think that this is maybe not just a problem we're having at home?
- [51:07]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I mean, I. I think it's. Look, I think it's fixable. And Pochettino said there's time. And I. And I've. And I've referenced. I think there's a short amount of time, but, yeah, there's still some time to have success with this group. There's no doubt about that. I mean, but. But there are significant things that we as fans probably need and want to see. Right. And. And that. Is that. Is that. That fight and that spirit. And I. I would never say that players don't care.
- [51:37]
Landon Donovan
That's a.
- [51:37]
Tim Howard
It's a hard thing to levy against the player. That's like. That's like rock bottom. That's what. When you're, when you only say that when you're certain. Like, like you can't say, I don't think this guy cares or I think he's down tools. You have to have solid inside information and like, and, and no. So I don't say that about these players, that they don't care. They do care. But again, what. What to what extent? Right, because they didn't care, they wouldn't play for their national team. Right. Because I know a lot of guys in England particularly, which is a whole nother kettle of fish, like, they just. They've declined going into their national team. Right. Ben White at Arsenal, he's the best right back that England has, and he declines the invite because he. For. He's had a falling out. So they care, but it's to what level? Right? We talked about priorities and running through a wall for your country and the togetherness and. And by the way, I know, look, players on this current team have issues with me and things that I say, that's fine. They're not beholden to me and I'm not beholden to them. But the fact of the matter is, this is what you sign up for. When Landon had a bad game and he had a couple of bad games, people started to question whether he cared. Is it fair? No. But results and performances shape people's opinions.
- [52:58]
Landon Donovan
Yeah, you're right. And look, here's. We talked a lot about the problems. Here's, in my opinion, what needs to happen. Pochettino is a smart, smart man, smart coach. He. I have no doubt he will figure out from his perspective how to fix this. I have zero doubt of that. What Tyler Adams said post game to the media needs to be said clearly, bluntly to the other players that he's referencing. And he needs to tell them to their face, this ain't good enough. Okay? That needs to happen. Christian Pulisic, who I feel really badly for in this moment because I know he desperately cares and does play with that pride we're talking about. He didn't have the best game against Canada or either game, for sure, but he cares, really cares, needs to, even though this isn't in his makeup necessarily, needs to sit down with guys and say, this is not good enough and we cannot do this and hold them accountable and when it happens on the field, call somebody out and a few Others who are leaders of the team, Anthony Robinson maybe now need to do the same thing. If they don't, I don't know how much it changes because this team has it in them. We've seen in the past nations league games. They have that in them. They've had games where I'm like, whoa, they are dogs. Like, they're after it. They have it in them. It is there, but it has to be there all the time. And when it doesn't happen, you've got to call it to account and you got to hold people accountable. If that happens, I am confident that this group can get it right. But those things do need to happen, and I'm going to stop it there. Let's take a break. When we come back, we're going to do more questions. There's again a lot. So let's. Let's keep diving into this. Jordan, you stay right there. Everyone else, stay right there. On unfiltered soccer with Landon and Tim. Presented by vocals by.
- [55:04]
Tim Howard
This is a message from sponsor Intuit.
- [55:07]
Landon Donovan
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- [55:11]
Tim Howard
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Landon Donovan
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Tim Howard
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- [55:29]
C
TurboTax Live full service.
- [55:31]
Tim Howard
Seek guaranteed details@turbotax.com guarantees coming right back at you with more of your questions, comments and concerns from the mailbag. Jordan, as always, so lovely to have you hit us with it.
- [55:46]
C
You didn't want to ask me about my jersey this week.
- [55:48]
Landon Donovan
I actually thought about that. I did think about it. What is it?
- [55:51]
Tim Howard
Liquid. That's very.
- [55:53]
Landon Donovan
I'm not placating you anymore.
- [55:54]
C
My. My Brooklyn FC jersey. I'm going to see the women this weekend.
- [55:58]
Tim Howard
How was it?
- [55:59]
C
It was great, right up until the weather rolled in. And then I had made some poor clothing choices myself.
- [56:06]
Tim Howard
That's cool. Wait, was it. Are they playing in Queens at Columbia still?
- [56:10]
C
No, they're playing in Coney island, which is amazing to, like, watch people ride the. The Cyclone right behind the gangster.
- [56:17]
Landon Donovan
Wait, question, guys. Isn't Brooklyn's different than Queens?
- [56:22]
C
Yes, it is.
- [56:22]
Tim Howard
Yeah, they were.
- [56:23]
Landon Donovan
Coney Island.
- [56:24]
C
Coney island is part of Brooklyn.
- [56:26]
Tim Howard
Yeah, Coney Islands.
- [56:28]
C
I love this part of the show when we get to, like, educate Landon.
- [56:31]
Tim Howard
He has no idea. He would never step foot in Coney, ever. He's a Matt beach. I mean, that says it all.
- [56:38]
Landon Donovan
I'm a man of the people, Tim. I'm a man of the people.
- [56:40]
Tim Howard
No, you are not.
- [56:42]
C
All right, let's get back into some of these questions. This one's from Gerald via email. So I follow the US youth national team under 17s. Their success stands out to me as they are beating teams 22 to nothing and seven to nothing. And they qualified for the World cup with a 31 to nothing goal differential. Where are these players going two to three years from now? Why are we not seeing this type of winning mentality translate into the U.S. men's National Team?
- [57:12]
Landon Donovan
Oh, Gerald.
- [57:13]
Tim Howard
Wow.
- [57:14]
Landon Donovan
Do you want to take this?
- [57:16]
Tim Howard
No, I. I'm. I'm stumped. Keep going. I'm gonna. I'm gonna wait this one out until you finish, Gerald.
- [57:22]
Landon Donovan
It's a little different than playing full senior national teams that are highly ranked. It's not apples to apples, dude.
- [57:33]
Tim Howard
No.
- [57:34]
Landon Donovan
So it's hard to. It's hard to compare that. And I would actually make the case. Winning 22. 0 is worse for those kids. Like, they need to face some adversity and difficulty and hardship, and that will. That will give them more resilience going forward. So because you beat a team 70 and qualifying at 17, it's no correlation to what happens now. If they go on and do amazing things in the World cup, then I'll change my mind. But we will get into US Youth soccer another day and probably multiple. Multiple times. And what a mess it is. But unfortunately, this isn't. They are not the answer right now, sadly, that. That we're all hoping.
- [58:18]
Tim Howard
Well, for reference, it's not. This isn't a new thing. Like, you're landon, you're. And B's team went down to New Zealand for the U17. Where'd you finish?
- [58:26]
Landon Donovan
Fourth.
- [58:27]
Tim Howard
Fourth. And then you and B's what players won the Golden Boot, Silver boot, Something like that. Right. So, like, this isn't. This isn't a new thing, right? Like, we've had good youth team and that was. God, I don't know. What year was that?
- [58:39]
Landon Donovan
99.
- [58:39]
Tim Howard
99. Right. So that's, you know, 25 years ago. So we've had really good youth success. The, you know, the point that you make about, like, whether it's great. It's probably not great for them to. It's probably better for them to lose a really hard game 3 nil or 21 than to win 22 nothing. Because I think the development, as you mentioned in this country is just so incredibly poor. You know, I, I think about, think about small things. Even my, my daughter's team this year. So there's a. Her high school team. She goes to a really good private school. And then the public school in the town is also. They're awesome. They're the two of the best two teams and they went toe to toe. And the, the public high school, who's probably better, didn't play us this year. And we're like, how are they, how are they not on the, on the schedule? And the coach, they said, oh, because all the girls played club soccer together, the game got too emotional over the last couple years, so we didn't schedule the game. And I was like, I want my daughter to play in that game. Cause it's tough, it's physical, it's nasty. They don't always win in my daughter's team. So I'm like, those are the best games. And this joker is like, nah, we're not gonna schedule this year. So it's broken and crazy. But listen, hats off, as you said at the World cup, if they, if they perform well, that's a really good thing.
- [59:49]
C
This question, well, comment rather is from itzen via YouTube. And this is, I feel like, was a pretty good summation of something that we saw a lot in the comments at this point. I really wish we just sent a full MLS squad to the World cup, not because I think they do better, but because it would finally kill the stupid narrative that somehow what we're missing in this game is more MLS players. And just to clarify, I'm not against giving MLS players opportunity if they're playing well, but I don't know how anyone genuinely believes MLS players are the answers to our lack of quality.
- [60:26]
Landon Donovan
My opinion is I don't care if you play your club soccer on Mars, as long as you have pride in playing for your national team and you are playing consistently with your club team. That's it. That's my criteria. Play consistently with your club team, whether it's in USL or a Champions League team. I could care less but be playing consistently and play with pride. When you put on your national team shirt, you do that, we're going to be fine. You know, I don't think we're going to win a World cup yet, but we're going to be fine. But that's my criteria, which I think.
- [61:04]
C
Is an interesting way to transition into a comment from Dave, which this. I don't. I'm interested to see what you guys think about this. He says, hey, guys, great show. Regarding Landon's these guys need to give a shit.
- [61:17]
Tim Howard
Comments?
- [61:18]
C
I couldn't agree more. Here's my solution. Use the best American amateur players from college programs and you will find that they will play their asses off because they don't get paid to play. The current crop of players is only concerned with their club teams and making a lot of money. Take the money out of the equation and use amateurs, and the fans will see a much better effort.
- [61:40]
Tim Howard
Money is everything. So let's start there. You've got one career. You got to make the best of it. And these players are doing fabulous in terms of carving out good careers for themselves at clubs and getting paid well. So they should be doing that. When we talk about teams over the last two generations, there have been players on those teams who have earned really, really wonderful livings with their. With their club team. There was still a. There was still a fight and a desire and a nastiness. It's not, I think. I think money. Money is never. It's. It's never the reason why someone doesn't care. In fact, I cared more because I wanted to make more money. And when I, When I performed well and I was kicking butt at the top, I got paid more money. So, yeah, it's not a direct correlation.
- [62:31]
Landon Donovan
It's not. And look, would amateur players care more in those games? Potentially, but we also would have lost 30 to 0, right? So like. So there's a balance here. I don't want people to get so carried away. And, and like I said earlier, these guys have it in them. We have seen it. We've seen it with their club teams, we've seen it with the national team. It's not like it's not there. And they don't have. Now there's a few of them who. I don't think we've seen it very often, and we better see more of it. In my opinion, they shouldn't be on the national team anymore. But I don't care. I said this last week, Tim. I don't care what the motivation is. For some people. And I'll tell you a story. For some people, it is money, right? My first ever national team camp, I was 16, but I was not part of the national team. I was just there. They were bringing me in to get a feel for it. And the US Soccer and the players were in the middle of a collective bargaining negotiation to see how much the players would get paid. And at the time, the players were asking for about $6,000 as a win bonus if they beat a top 10 team.
- [63:37]
Tim Howard
Team.
- [63:38]
Landon Donovan
Okay, so they were playing Argentina that day, and I think Preky scored, or I think maybe Preky scored, and we won the game 1 0. And I was in the locker room and I was this naive 16 year old, and I'm like, yeah, we won. Even though I didn't do anything, we won. We won. And one of the players, and I won't say his name to spare him, but he walked in and he goes, yeah, where's my six GS, baby? And I was like, oh, cares about the money? And I was like, oh, shoot. It kind of hit me in the face. And so for some people, that is the case for some people. And I think this is Diego Luna. It's like he has just had to fight and scrap for everything in his life. And now he has this opportunity. He's like, I'm not letting this go. Like, I am holding on to this with everything I have because I don't have a plan B in life. I don't make it in soccer. That's it. So for other players, it's just intrinsic. And that was more me. It just, like, there were things in my childhood and things that fueled that, but it was like, I just had it. I see it in my kids. One of them would literally kill you to win a game, and the other couldn't care less if they win or lose, right? And so there's lots of reasons. I don't care what the reason is, but we need the players that have that.
- [64:52]
Tim Howard
And by the way, by the way, the funny balance of this all is like, you and I, you know, at international team camp, oftentimes you have team meals, like, freaking every day. And if. If you're good, a good behavior, the manager let you go out for dinner or something on your own. But like, we sit around. You sit around the lunch table or the. Or the dinner table. If you're a good team, you long after dinner's over and you're sitting there chatting with your boys, you don't want to go back to your room by yourself. So, like, you're hanging out. And the amount of times, you know, Lana, you and I have been in the same room, we're like, we're like, yo, if we win tomorrow, we, you know, if we're in a tournament and we advance, we're like, yo, we. You. You. The. The pot of money that we get goes. Goes up significantly. And like, we're all chuckling like, we. This is. We gotta win tomorrow. And then, you know, there's other guys in Camp, by the way. Like, certainly towards the end of. Of our national team careers, we're like, there's some MLS guys in camp who, like, if we win tomorrow, their bonus is more like their bonus will pay their rent for, like, three months straight. Like, it's crazy. But now to quantify that. Like, it's not as if we went on the field and we're like, we gotta win for the money. Like, it is a balance there. Like, you. You wanted to win anyway. That was just a fun. Like Landon said, like, you cheer in the locker room afterwards because you're getting paid, but you're also feeling really great that you won. So there's a balance. And I think. I think sometimes people on the outside look at it and it's like, oh, these overpaid guys. That's not it. They care. They need to care.
- [66:12]
C
As the producer of the show, I would like to encourage Dave to go back to the Rob Dow episode about the University of Vermont to learn more about what it's like to be a collegiate soccer player. Let's talk about some of these players specifically. We got a couple of comments from Instagram. Chase on Instagram said, keep calling up Patrick Ajamong and he's going to be your best striker. Dude is a dog. I feel like we didn't get to talk about him as much last week. Do you guys have any thoughts about his performance?
- [66:40]
Landon Donovan
What Josh Sargent has done at Norwich this year and in the last however long has been phenomenal. Okay? There are certain guys who, for whatever reason, it doesn't always add up, but, like, for whatever reason, they're just not national team quality. Okay? And that doesn't mean he's not, quote, unquote, talented enough or good enough. It's just not at that level. It's a different type of game and it doesn't work. Okay. The guy, Tim, that you and I played with, Taylor Tolman, was that guy scored a gazillion goals for New Zealand. Love the guy. Great around the team in locker room.
- [67:15]
Tim Howard
Not New Zealand Revolution.
- [67:17]
Landon Donovan
New England. Sorry, did I say New Zealand?
- [67:19]
Tim Howard
I think so. Fine. You correct me. I correct you. It's fine.
- [67:21]
Landon Donovan
All right. Fine For New England. Not the New Zealand Revolution with the national team. Like, he scored a few goals, but just wasn't quite the guy. Right. And that's fine. That's an. He had an amazing career. Just sergeant. The same thing. For whatever reason. That's. That's. It's like either a step up for him that. That's not quite there, or the type of game or something isn't. Isn't working out. When I watch ajamong, I think he will be impactful at the international level because of his physicality, his relentlessness. He's so hard to play against. He really is. And so I agree. I think it's a great comment. I don't know if he's going to be the number two or three or four, but he might be the fifth best. You know, he might sneak onto the World cup team and he's a guy for 10 minutes at the end of the game, you're like. Like he will wreak havoc.
- [68:09]
Tim Howard
Yeah.
- [68:10]
Landon Donovan
And I would hate to play against him.
- [68:11]
Tim Howard
Yeah. I like Patrick Etchemang. I think he. I think he. He provides this, like, vertical threat, you know, and sometimes that doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't always mean, like, when people talk about, like, verticality, like straight line runner, ball over the top, scores a goal. It doesn't always mean that. Sometimes it means getting side on, running into the channel, chasing a ball down where you can hold the ball and get your team up the pitch like it does. It's really important for, for strikers to be able to do that. And I, and I think he's. He's off to a good start in his national team career. Like, he needs to keep adding to that. Certainly, certainly bang goals in for Charlotte will help, but he's in the shop window. I mean, what, what happened. It. Look, it's going to be a battle between Ricardo Pepe and Flo Baligan. We know that. Absolutely. But to be able to have a striker like Ajamang, to be able to, as Landon said, go to him in a pinch in the, you know, as in a substitute role. Can he start? Does he earn enough of that to start? Like I said, I like, I like him because I also like the players underneath him. Like, I think there's a lot of talent with the players who play underneath him, whether that be Waya or Pulisic or Giorena, if, If he ever gets selected to start, like, there's, there's enough ball possession and ball dominance in that midfield that you actually want your striker to go away, be a nuisance, get in the box. And he has that. So, yeah, I think he's off to a good start.
- [69:32]
C
Okay. You set me up perfectly, Tim. It's time for me to stop avoiding this question. Here we go. Regarding Gio Reina. I know you both like him and his talent. You talk about him nearly every podcast. I don't know if that's true, Doug. He's not quite up to Ricky Pooh.
- [69:45]
Landon Donovan
Status yet, but he is.
- [69:48]
C
At what point do you stop saying he's a generational talent? He's been given chance after chance, but he's not broken through anywhere. Unless something changes. Will he become another Freddie Adu?
- [70:00]
Tim Howard
Yeah, that's a fair comment, Doug. It's fair. I mean, I do agree that generational talent has a shelf life. I mean he is, you know, I think about, I watched batting practice at Colorado Rockies when I was there and the manager came up to me and we were just chatting and I forget the guy's name. He got traded to the Chicago Cubs. Anyway, I'll remember. Might have been Gonzalez and he was just, he's left handed, smacking balls, landing into the upper deck. Easy, easy. It's just like you chipping a ball into the goal. It was like nothing. And he looked at me and he's like, that's a generational swing. He said, you don't see, you don't see that now cargo Carlos Gonzalez. Yeah. And, and so I don't know. And without disrespect to Carlos Gonzalez, I don't know if he's ever like gone on to, to do what he was supposed to do in the game. But the swing was generational. And so I think sometimes that needs to, that gets lost. Like geo is, we don't produce these players like your, your Claudio Reyna and Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey and John O'Brien who everyone forgets about and, and, and Gio Reyna and Kristen Pulisic. These players don't pop up all the time. They're special and so, and so it's easy to talk about them but the, the points well taken at a certain point, it's absolutely on him to find that magic, find the right groove and rhythm, play week in and week out. You know, you're 90 minute player all season, ever present for a couple of years in a row. Like that's a, that's a fair comment. And so hopefully, hopefully this summer we will begin to see the start of that.
- [71:36]
Landon Donovan
So it's a really good question and a good point, Doug. I disagree with you, Tim. I think generational talent is. You are a generational talent and you always will be. Now whether that manifests, manifests itself into anything is to be determined. At the time, Freddie was a generational talent. Freddie Adieu was right and he for his age, I guess was, was just different than everybody else and a talent that we hadn't seen before in a generation. Now the problem with that is when we talk about Gio's talent, we're talking about specific things, specific pieces of the whole pie. And he has a few specific pieces that are better than almost anything we've ever seen. The problem is the rest of the pie right now has been basically empty, right? And there's the mentality piece, there's the staying fit piece, there's the earning and keeping your spot piece, there's the off the field stuff that, you know, we hear about and that have happened. There's the stuff with his family and the people around him that have harmed him. And all those pieces, to be a top, top play, top, top, top player, have to be pretty filled in.
- [72:51]
Tim Howard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [72:52]
Landon Donovan
And when they're all filled in, you get messy, Right? But those are not filled in at all. But he still has that generational talent piece that we don't see in this country. We don't. So that's not going anywhere. But the question is, will any of it? And I think to Doug's point, he's 22 now. Like, we're starting to say, I don't know, man, he's not 18. So like, maybe this is, maybe this is who he is. Maybe he's showing us exactly who he is and then we just have to accept it.
- [73:19]
Tim Howard
Yeah, I, I just, look, I, I think to carry on from that because it sparked a thought that I, I, one thing that I, I, I hate, I hate that I wish managers would do more. And I'm thinking Marcus Rashford and Amarim and before that, 10 hog. I'm thinking Pochettino and Giorena. I just wish, like when you, like if you, if, if you and I got hired as the U.S. national team managers tomorrow, right, we, we could identify five players that were like, we, we gotta, we have to have these guys on side, we're not going to bow down to them, but like, we have to have these guys on side. Like for me, and I don't know if this did or didn't happen, but like, for me, I'm looking at that and I'm going, surely one of the flights that I'm taking is going into Germany and sitting down at a coffee.
- [74:11]
Landon Donovan
Shop with Gio and being one of the first ones.
- [74:12]
Tim Howard
One of the first ones.
- [74:13]
Landon Donovan
One of the first ones.
- [74:14]
Tim Howard
And I'm saying, as the coach, Gio, what do you need? Forget all the other bullshit that happened. What do you, what do you need from me? Because I need you on the pitch, being your amazing self. So what do you need from me? Right? That's what I would have done. That's what I would have done with Marcus Rashford. And I just don't know if that always happens. I don't know if it's an ego thing, but. Yeah, I don't know. It's just.
- [74:40]
Landon Donovan
You're right.
- [74:41]
Tim Howard
Anyway, there.
- [74:44]
C
I hate to leave it there, but I feel like that was a. That was a good spot to. To end on the question.
- [74:49]
Landon Donovan
Everyone's fired up. I know. It's good.
- [74:51]
Tim Howard
It's great. I'm excited. I'm excited for the Gold Cup. I really am. I'm excited for.
- [74:55]
Landon Donovan
I am, too.
- [74:56]
Tim Howard
What? What. What's the response? You know, Emma Hayes talked about it with the women's national team. I'm. I'm getting a response. One way or the other. I'm getting a response, and that's what she's saying. That's what I'm looking forward to with the men this summer. They need a response. Everybody knows it. They're like, there's literally no secret now.
- [75:11]
Landon Donovan
Yeah.
- [75:11]
C
Well, the women are playing Brazil on Saturday.
- [75:14]
Tim Howard
Great.
- [75:15]
C
So we're very excited to see how. How they perform as well, too. All right, thanks, guys.
- [75:21]
Landon Donovan
Thanks, junior. Awesome show. That was fun, actually doing a lot. It felt like a fun Q A. Like, really dive deep on a lot of that. So thank you all very, very much, as always, for being with us today. I do want to mention, Tim, you all our fans have made us. We just saw the number four sports sports podcast in America.
- [75:40]
Tim Howard
Let's go.
- [75:42]
Landon Donovan
Let's keep it there. The way we keep it there is by you guys continuing to engage this way. We promise we'll be unfiltered and keep bringing it. And you guys keep bringing it. It's awesome. This is a team effort. So thank you guys, as always. Please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you get your pods, and then follow all across our social media. Keep leaving comments, questions, anything you want us to hear, and then follow us at Unfiltered Soccer for more bonus content.
- [76:09]
Tim Howard
Yeah. Just to echo that land. I mean, we thank you guys. We thank everybody every week. And, you know, it's weeks like this where we see this podcast soaring, and it's because of you. You know, we're nothing without you. All the listeners. Again, I say it every week. We love your comments. The good, the bad, the ugly, it doesn't matter. Keep on bringing it.
- [76:29]
Landon Donovan
Passion. We love the passion.
- [76:30]
Tim Howard
And we love the passion from our presenting sponsor, vw, and our fan connection sponsor, AT T. Have an amazing week. Look forward to seeing you all back here next Tuesday with another edition of unfiltered soccer.