Unhedged Podcast - Special: Michael Burry Speaks

Date: December 25, 2025
Host: Michael Lewis (with Lydia Jean Cott)
Podcast: Unhedged (Financial Times & Pushkin Industries)
Guest: Michael Burry

Episode Overview

This special episode, co-produced with Michael Lewis’s "Against the Rules," features a rare in-depth conversation with legendary hedge fund manager Michael Burry. Marking the 15th anniversary of "The Big Short," the discussion revisits the 2008 financial crisis, Burry’s pivotal role in anticipating the subprime collapse, his investment philosophy, and his recent high-profile short positions against AI giants like Palantir and Nvidia. The conversation provides a candid view of Burry's outlook on markets, investing, and broader economic concerns.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael Burry’s Reluctance and Public Profile

• Burry rarely gives interviews and is known for his reclusiveness.
• His recent investment disclosures (notably short positions on AI stocks) unexpectedly thrust him back into the media spotlight.
• "There's something also nice about subjects who aren't promiscuous, who don't just talk to everybody." – Michael Lewis (03:00)

2. Revisiting ‘The Big Short’ and Subprime Innovation

• Burry was one of the first to identify and bet against the subprime mortgage market.
• He worked with Wall Street to create credit default swaps on subprime mortgage bonds, effectively "inventing" a way to short the market.
• "What he did was basically invent, or have Wall Street firms invent for him the credit default swap on subprime mortgage bonds." – Michael Lewis (03:44)
• Burry stressed the importance of communicating transparently with investors, primarily through email, which provided him valuable documentation and clarity during turbulent times.
• "Those emails, I think, were the main reason I didn’t get sued by my investors." – Michael Burry (06:08)

3. Life After Fame: Investor Relations and Reputation

• Despite his massive win, Burry’s investors were often upset with him, leading him to close his fund shortly after the crisis.
• "My investors were generally mad at me, even when things went well... Even when we made the money, it was, 'whew, we don’t want to go through that again.'" – Michael Burry (10:53)
• After reopening in 2013, he purposely kept his operation small, choosing only trusted investors.

4. Media Misreporting of Burry’s Recent Trades

• His recent short positions on Palantir and Nvidia were widely mischaracterized in the media due to misunderstanding of SEC filings, particularly the notional value of options.
• "So I have a... less than $2 option and it was being priced as if I owned [Palantir at] $200. So it was two orders of magnitude off." – Michael Burry (14:48)

5. Current Market Strategy: AI Bubble and Passive Investing

• Burry explains his bearish positions on Palantir and Nvidia, arguing they are overvalued and have become "poster children for AI" without fundamental justification.
• He compares the current AI investment boom to the dot-com bubble, highlighting classic signs of mania.
• "What you can do is you can look at net investment—capital expenditures, less depreciation—over time... and you get these nice mounds of investment manias." – Michael Burry (25:07)
• On Nvidia: He praises their past but believes their AI narrative is overblown and likens it to previous tech hype cycles.
• On Palantir: He questions their value proposition, reliance on government contracts, and excessive stock-based compensation.
• "There are, I think, five billionaires that came out of Palantir because they own Palantir stock and the revenue was $4 billion or less. The billionaires-to-revenue ratio was greater than one. I’ve never seen that before." – Michael Burry (21:12)
• He points out that passive investing has shifted market dynamics, reducing the prevalence of active stock pickers and potentially increasing systemic market risk.

6. Broader Economic and Political Concerns

• Burry warns of an impending challenging period for U.S. stocks, suggesting a protracted bear market may be on the horizon.
• He expresses skepticism about U.S. government finances and doubts the ability to predict or bet against a so-called "debt crisis."
• "Predicting this stuff is the problem. I always kind of put it in terms of, you know, waiting for Castro to die. It's not a strategy." – Michael Burry (30:41)
• He is critical of the Federal Reserve, suggesting it should be abolished and its functions subsumed by the Treasury.
• "I think the Fed doesn’t do anything very helpful. I think it’s the easiest job in the world." – Michael Burry (33:23)

7. On Safe Havens: Gold & Bitcoin

• Burry dismisses Bitcoin as "the tulip bulb of our time," deriding its speculative and criminal associations; he prefers gold as a store of value.
• "Bitcoin at 100,000 is the most ridiculous thing... It's a tulip bulb of our time. It’s worse than a tulip bulb because this has enabled so much criminal activity to go deep under." – Michael Burry (33:52)
• "I've had gold since 2005." – Michael Burry (34:27)

8. Reflections on Lewis’s Portrayal and Personal Disclosure

• Burry was initially wary of Michael Lewis but chose transparency, sharing all emails and records to ensure an accurate portrayal in "The Big Short."
• "In a way, I was giving you all that stuff defensively... Because I thought I didn’t do anything wrong, and I wanted you to know that." – Michael Burry (35:34)
• Lewis credits Burry as a "fantastic teacher," highlighting his ability to hold and explain contrarian views.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On media attention:
  "This only happens to me... He can't lay low." – Michael Lewis (02:48)

• On "once-in-a-century" trades:
  "This is why this is the big short, is the once-in-a-century opportunity to actually say, I know when this is going to happen." – Michael Burry (07:06)

• On compliance and not speaking publicly:
  "My compliance... just keeps saying, don't talk to anybody. Don't respond to him. … And so I think since the movie came out and this really started happening, there was a frustration building in me to want to say something." – Michael Burry (15:39)

• On Google and the effect of AI:
  "The magic thing about Google search was how little it cost because most requests were not monetizable... LLMs, most people are getting what they want out of them right now on the free level. And they're massively penetrating. What more are they going to do for the average person? Not that much." – Michael Burry (27:22–30:00)

• On personal disposition:
  "Being on the spectrum, I'll just move back into my own head and move along." – Michael Burry (36:01)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:44 — Burry’s invention of credit default swaps on subprime
• 06:08 — Importance of email documentation with investors
• 07:59–09:44 — Life after "The Big Short," fund closure, investor fallout
• 14:07–15:30 — How media misreports the size of Burry’s positions
• 17:30–22:49 — Rationale for bearish bets on Palantir and Nvidia, explanation of AI bubble
• 25:07–26:45 — Comparison of AI investment boom to previous manias
• 30:41–33:43 — U.S. government debt, the Fed, and monetary policy
• 33:52–34:27 — Dismissal of Bitcoin, preference for gold
• 35:34–36:08 — On sharing all records with Lewis and his teaching style

Conclusion

This episode provides a rare, candid window into Michael Burry’s thinking—from his now-legendary bet against subprime mortgages to his skepticism about today’s AI and passive investing manias. Listeners gain insight not only into his financial acumen but also his personal philosophy, risk aversion, and enduring vigilance against consensus thinking. His unwavering candor, skeptical worldview, and methodical explanations make this podcast an invaluable listen for anyone curious about the mindset behind some of the most consequential financial decisions of the 21st century.