Quiz show!

Summary

Unhedged Podcast: “Quiz Show!”

Hosts: Katie Martin, Robert Armstrong
Guest: John Foley
Date: December 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This playful festive episode features Katie Martin as quizmaster, challenging Robert Armstrong and John Foley with a series of quirky, finance-adjacent quiz questions. The participants dig into memorable moments from the year in business, finance, and culture—blending insightful commentary with tongue-in-cheek banter and a dash of personal anecdotes. It's a lighthearted look back at the past year, perfect for listeners seeking a fun recap with the FT's sharpest wits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter & Quiz Introduction (00:36–03:16)

• Scene-setting: Katie welcomes listeners, poking fun at post-holiday boredom and announcing a “frivolous quiz.”
• Participants: Robert Armstrong (Unhedged newsletter) and John Foley (Lex and “owner of a spectacularly sore finger”) join as contestants.
• Tone: Light, self-deprecating banter sets a jovial, irreverent mood.
  • Memorable Moment: Katie gives John a sympathy point for his finger injury.
    “I'm giving John one point on my little score sheet now out of pure sympathy.” – Katie (02:25)

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Taco Trade & Trump Trivia (03:16–07:11)

• Origins: Revisiting Rob's 'taco trade' concept.
• Q1: What did Trump call the bond market when it tanked?
  Answer: “Yippee.”
  (Both contestants correct)
• Q2: Trump’s Oval Office response to the taco trade question?
  Answer: “Nastiest question.”
• Q3: Tariff rate on Heard and MacDonald Islands (penguin-inhabited)?
  John wins with 10% (closer than Rob’s guess).
  (04:55)
• Q4: Wrong number of dolls for your daughter, per Trump?
  “You don't need 37 dolls.” – Katie (06:53)
  Rob gets the point, recalling Trump’s comical precision.

Sample Quote:
“I think 10% is a number that says, look, we're not taking any shit from you penguins, but we are giving you a bit of a sweetheart deal.”
– Katie Martin (06:10)

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K-Shaped Economy & Absurd Prices (07:11–10:20)

• Q5: US Open chicken nuggets with caviar—price?
  • Rob estimates $25, John $80; real answer: $100.
  • Discussion of luxury pricing and festival markups.
• Financial Satire: Using exaggerated food pricing as K-shaped economy exemplars.

Quote:
“Don't you get ashamed that that is being sold at your venue at some point? ... It's just not right.”
– Robert Armstrong (10:12)

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Popmart & The Labubu Phenomenon (10:20–12:54)

• Q6: Market cap of Popmart International vs. Hasbro?
  John: $40B; Rob: $41B; Real answer: $33B — John wins.
• Bonus: Popmart’s stock decline from its peak?
  Closest estimate wins; real answer: down 40%.

Memorable Perspective:

• John’s calculation approach: “multiply it by four” – a running joke throughout.

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Very Normal People: Parody & Real Absurdities (13:15–17:45)

Peter Thiel & Antichrist Theory (13:19–14:55)

• Q7: What does Peter Thiel think Greta Thunberg could represent?
  • Both: “The Antichrist.”
• Katie reads Thiel’s rationale:
  “In the 21st century, the Antichrist is a Luddite who wants to stop all science. It's someone like Greta.” (14:31)

Liz Truss & Membership Clubs (15:20–16:46)

• Q8: Founding member fee for Truss’s AI club?
  Rob: £80K, John: £50K, Real answer: £500K
  Jaw-dropping response to price vs. value.

Big Balls Korestein (17:22–17:38)

• Q9: Nickname of Edward Korestein from Doge?
  John: “Big Balls.” Correct.

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Bubble Round: Who Said It? (17:59–20:45)

AI Bubble Commentary (18:00–18:45)

• Quote about “from our vantage point there’s no AI bubble” –
  Jensen Huang, Nvidia CEO (18:34)

Bubble Utility Analysis (19:25–20:06)

• Quote on industrial vs. financial bubbles –
  Jeff Bezos (19:42)
• Rob’s reflection:
  “I think, by the way, this is kind of true… you just have too many [assets] and you have to grow into it.” (19:43)

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Meta & AI Infrastructure (21:12–24:44)

Meta’s Financing (21:12–21:41)

• Q12: Meta’s dollar bond issue day John wrote about hyperscalers not borrowing for AI?
  John guesses $40B, Rob: $28B, Real answer: $30B – Rob gets it.

VR Offerings & Glasses Pricing (22:32–24:45)

• Meta’s avatar VR experience: “Horizon Worlds.”
• US retail price for Ray-Ban Meta glasses?
  John: $400; Rob: $699; Actual: $379 – John closest.

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Results & Reflections (24:45–25:37)

• Final Tally: John: 9 points (plus bonus = 10), Rob: 6 points.
• John’s Acceptance:
  “If you'd ask questions about actual important, real stuff, Rob would easily… have won.” – John (25:17)
• Katie: “John is the winner of 2025!”

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New Year’s Resolutions (26:34–28:53)

• Rob: Pivot from mindfulness to “indulging myself” (midlife crisis jokingly implied).
• John: Abandon mindfulness (“it’s victim blaming... capitalism makes us stressed”) in favor of reading more US presidential biographies. Target: President Garfield.
• Katie: “Say no more often”—resolving to avoid overcommitting.

“2026 is the year of no.” – Robert Armstrong (28:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Quizmaster dominance:
  “The rules of the quiz are as follows. I’m in charge.” – Katie Martin (02:55)

• Rob’s preemptive complaint:
  “I just want to say… Katie designs these quizzes to humiliate me personally. I’m lodging an official complaint preemptively.” – Robert Armstrong (02:32)

• On wild pricing at events:
  “You get the tennis premium... And then you multiply that by four… you get $80.” – John Foley (09:12)

• On surreal 2025 finance culture:
  “Very normal people. Loose on the federal government.” – Katie Martin (17:41)

• Katie’s final send-off:
  “Happy New Year. We love having you all on board… Have a fabulous 2026.” (28:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:36] – Quiz kickoff and rules
• [03:17] – First quiz questions: Trump/taco trade
• [07:40] – K-shaped economy/nuggets with caviar
• [10:47] – Popmart & Labubu phenomenon
• [13:15] – “Very Normal People” round: Thiel, Truss, Big Balls Korestein
• [17:59] – “Bubble Round”: Who Said It
• [21:12] – Meta, Hyperscalers, VR, and hardware pricing
• [24:45] – Quiz close and winner reveal
• [26:34] – New Year’s Resolutions round

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Flow & Tone

• The episode maintains Unhedged’s classic mix of finance insight and sharp-witted banter, offering plenty of genuine laughs alongside reflections on the weirder headlines of 2025.
• Friendly competitiveness between Rob and John, with Katie’s quizmaster role providing comedic order.
• Sarcastic, informal, and very “FT insider” in tone—plenty of self-aware jabs at the state of finance culture.

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For New Listeners

If you missed the quiz, this recap covers the quirkiest financial and business moments of 2025, as channeled through the FT team’s signature mix of expertise and irreverence. From Trump’s peculiar statements and the rise of odd collectibles, to sky-high prices at sporting events and eye-popping membership fees, it’s a light but insightful exploration of the extremes in contemporary markets and culture—all wrapped up in festive fun.

Transcript

[PGM Announcer]

At pgm, expertise across public and private markets today helps build resilient portfolios tomorrow. With over $1.4 trillion in AUM, PGM has navigated over 30 market cycles with active investing and disciplined risk management. But it's not just about the numbers. Our combined global expertise and local insights give us these strategic perspectives we need to help you reach your long term goals. PGUM Our investments shape tomorrow Today.

[Katie Martin]

Pushkin listeners, you've survived another festive season. You're bursting with chocolates and booze and you are quite frankly sick to the back teeth of parlour games. Well, have a little guess what we've got for you here. Yes, that's right. It's essentially another parlour game. Hooray. The festive period calls for frivolous nonsense. So we have prepared for you today a frivolous quiz. And when I say we, I very much mean I have prepared a quiz. Ladies and gentlemen, Rob as usual, is just rocking up and making it up as he goes along. So grab a cup of tea or hell, something stronger and play along at home. Today on the show we will decide who is the winner of the of 2025. The stakes have arguably never been lower. This is Unhedged, the markets and finance podcast from the Financial Times and Pushkin. I'm Katie Martin, quiz master and columnist at the FT in London. In an effort to organise doing as little as possible over this festive time, I'm hereby pre recording a little quiz with the dynamic duo, the Batman and Robin, the Santa and Rudolph. That is Robert Armstrong off of the Unhedged newsletter and friend of the show, Hull's finest. John Foley, editor of the FT's excellent Smarty Pants companies and investment column. Lex. John, you are also the owner of a of a spectacularly sore finger, are you not?

[John Foley]

I'm so sore, Katie, I fell over and I landed with my entire body weight, my not inconsiderable body weight on my. On my ring finger on my right hand and it popped out of its joint like something from a horror film.

[Robert Armstrong]

We've all seen the X ray. It looks pretty bad. Finger is not supposed to point that direction. I know.

[Katie Martin]

No.

[Robert Armstrong]

Anyway, this will get you no sympathy in the quiz, John.

[John Foley]

It's fine by the way. It's fine.

[Katie Martin]

I'm giving John one point on my little score sheet now out of pure sympathy. So he's already starting a. I would.

[Robert Armstrong]

Just like to say before we start this whole quiz that Katie designs these quizzes to humiliate me personally. So I just want to lodge this complaint even before play begins.

[John Foley]

Well, I'm here to help Rob.

[Robert Armstrong]

I'm complaining to whoever is the FIFA equivalent of holiday finance quizzes. I'm lodging an official complaint preemptively.

[Katie Martin]

Complaints will get you nowhere because the rules of the quiz are as follows. I'm in charge. Okay, let's start with. Has to be done, a taco round. Just, you know, tying a bow on Rob's spectacular invention of the taco trade. Trump always chickens out. He's been dining out on it since April.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yep.

[Katie Martin]

So before you know, it'd be a whole year of dining out on the taco trade. So question one. US President Donald Trump chickened out on tariffs when government bonds started crapping out. How did he describe the bond market at that time? Was it funky yippee or jumpy?

[Robert Armstrong]

I'll go first this time. You have to go first next time.

[Katie Martin]

Okay.

[Robert Armstrong]

It's yippee. I say, what do you say?

[John Foley]

I also say yippee.

[Katie Martin]

You are both correct. It was indeed yippee Yippee. One point to each of you. But as I say, John's got an extra sympathy point because of his pity point. Trump himself was asked about the taco trade in the Oval Office, marking the peak of Rob's fame slash notoriety. How did he respond? Was it the nastiest question, the stupidest question, or the meanest question?

[John Foley]

It was the nastiest question.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah, that's correct. It was the nastiest question.

[Katie Martin]

You're both saying nastiest, and you are Both correct. God.

[Robert Armstrong]

2 and 0. Feeling good.

[Katie Martin]

So no more taco questions. I feel like we've almost a bit of taco. Taco saturation. It's got a reindeer, it's got the whole thing. We don't need any more.

[Robert Armstrong]

Moving on.

[Katie Martin]

No more taco. Moving on with our sad little lives. Okay, more Trump stuff. Question number three. A tariffs question. What was the tariff rate imposed on the Heard and MacDonald Islands on Liberation Day? For guidance? These islands are inhabited almost exclusively by penguins. What was the rate?

[Robert Armstrong]

Well, we all know how this administration feels about penguins. It's hostile. They are hostile. Torrance the penguin.

[Katie Martin]

Yes.

[Robert Armstrong]

I don't know. John may know. So you're just. You're not gonna give us options? You're just gonna.

[Katie Martin]

No, you just gotta pick a number.

[Robert Armstrong]

And it's whoever's closer.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Armstrong]

I think they got the standard 15.

[John Foley]

Okay, so I'm imagining that the US does not run an enormous trade deficit with these islands. Maybe a modest trade surplus if there are also some people there.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah.

[John Foley]

So I'm gonna say that they got a preferential rate of 10%.

[Katie Martin]

John is correct.

[Robert Armstrong]

John's correct.

[Katie Martin]

John's correct. They got 10%.

[Robert Armstrong]

Damn it. On the nail. Yeah, I was thinking maybe like guano is imported from there and so there could be an imbalance there. Like some ship stops there, picks up a ton of bird poop and brings it to American farmers.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Armstrong]

Do you know what I mean?

[John Foley]

Yeah, yeah. No, that does make sense.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah, but maybe. I think they were just looking at a map and circling dots and putting numbers next to them.

[Katie Martin]

I think 10% is a number that says, look, we're not taking any shit from you penguins, but we are giving you a bit of a sweetheart deal. Okay, so John is in the lead. Pull your socks up here, Rob. Okay, question number four, another Trump question. According to Trump two or three is the correct number of dolls to buy for your daughter. What is the wrong number of dolls to buy for your daughter?

[Robert Armstrong]

Okay, I'm gonna let John go first. Am I going first? This is who's closer? I remember, I think I remember this.

[John Foley]

I mean, I'm gonna just go around and say 10.

[Robert Armstrong]

I think he said it was like you don't need 30 dolls. I think 30 dolls was excessive.

[Katie Martin]

Well, the correct answer is 37.

[Robert Armstrong]

So Rob is correct. You don't need 37 dolls.

[Katie Martin]

You don't. He's not wrong.

[Robert Armstrong]

It's correct. No, it's true.

[Katie Martin]

Why is your president telling you how many dolls to buy for your daughters?

[Robert Armstrong]

I don't know. Dolls are creepy.

[Katie Martin]

Okay, so we are now even apart from John's extra point roaring comeback, question number five relates to everyone's favourite clever, smarty pants way to talk about the US economy, which is the K shaped economy. At the US Open tennis championships this year, one food stall was reportedly selling a dish of chicken nuggets topped with caviar. How much did a serving cost?

[Robert Armstrong]

I just want you to know I've heard that caviar prices have really fallen. I say this non sarcastically. I think there's been like some, I vaguely heard something about like people are better at farming sturgeon now or like the kind of agricultural technology has gotten better, so caviar has gotten a bit cheaper. Maybe the, you know, I don't know.

[John Foley]

But you know what did go up a lot this year was chicken prices.

[Robert Armstrong]

True, good point, good point. That's not K shaped. That's the opposite of K shaped. Right? That's the. Anyway, this is a good question. Now let's just start with some context here at a Sporting event in America, no food is less than 10 or $12. Right. Like a hot dog at Madison Square Garden is a tenor, just for starters. Right. So you get caviar involved. You have to times two, so that gets us to 20. And then you know, it's tennis. So you get the tennis premium. Right now we're up to 25. I think you're looking at $25 here.

[John Foley]

25. So all you think that. So here's how I would approach this. So last time I went to a concert in the Barclays Center, I think, I think I spent something like $20 on a can of non alcoholic beer which would normally cost about, let's say like $5. So that was four times.

[Robert Armstrong]

That's horrible.

[John Foley]

A multiple of four. So if you think chicken nuggets would normally cost like, I don't know, let's say $10 from somewhere a bit fancy, you add caviar and that makes it $20. And then you multiply that by four, you get $8.

[Robert Armstrong]

Wow. There's a big difference of opinion here, Katie.

[Katie Martin]

So, so rob, you're saying $25.

[Robert Armstrong]

John, by the way, I think it's a small serving. I think my I'm hypothesis.

[John Foley]

Right.

[Robert Armstrong]

We don't know. Yeah, but you know, Anyway, I'm saying $18.

[Katie Martin]

So Rob is saying $25, John is saying $80. The correct answer is first 100 of your Earth dollars.

[Robert Armstrong]

What the hell?

[John Foley]

I forgot the tennis premium.

[Robert Armstrong]

Ah, you forgot the tennis Premium multiplied by 1.2. Every, every inflation economist knows that.

[Katie Martin]

You should have taken Rob's number and multiplied that by 4.

[Robert Armstrong]

I can't believe in retrospect that was an astonishingly low ball guess. And I don't know what I was thinking.

[Katie Martin]

But like what, what is again, like what is going on out there where this is like a thing like so like the strawberries at Wimbledon in, you know, the famous tennis championship in London. They're always like astronomically expensive, but like a hundred dollars.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah. Don't you get ashamed that that is being sold at your venue at some point. You know what I mean? It's just not, it's not right.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. K shaped economy, folks. Yeah, it's all there for the rich people. Now question number six. The subject at hand is brain rot. Fabled US toy company Hasbro is worth $11 billion. What is the market capitalization in dollars of Popmart International, maker of Labubus? The nearest wins.

[John Foley]

Okay, So I know it's fallen quite a lot. So at the time that we're listening to this or that. You're listening to us say this. I'm not sure what it's going to be. I'm going to guess that it's about $40 billion US dollars.

[Robert Armstrong]

I'll take the over. I'll go. I mean, because I have the advantage of going second. I'll just go 41. Like this is the price is right. Do you have the prices right in England? You know, I'm just, I'm just going to be strategic here and say it's 41 billion and take the over.

[Katie Martin]

Well, once again, John is the winner. The correct answer at time of recording is $33 billion.

[Robert Armstrong]

That is rem. Good, John. That is really. You really almost got it.

[John Foley]

I just took Hasbro, multiplied it by four. Yeah, that's my answer to everything.

[Robert Armstrong]

And earlier you took a non alcoholic beer, multiplied it by four and got the price of a chicken nugget. I mean, this is the kind of alchemy that makes the Lex Collins.

[John Foley]

This is special. This is the Lex secret sauce.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah. Is that how you do it? Oh, now I get it. The likes.

[Robert Armstrong]

God, am I down by two points now?

[Katie Martin]

This is terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Armstrong]

I really gotta go on a tear.

[Katie Martin]

Now, but Labuboo's question mark, like, is this, is this gonna be a 2025 phenomenon that we don't need to worry about in 2026? These are like these horrible like grinning little elf toys that people have suddenly become obsessed with for like no apparent reason.

[John Foley]

Are they sing in Britain as well?

[Katie Martin]

I think so. But like they're very naff. They're very bad. I'm not a huge fan. A little bonus question here about Labuboo maker popmart International. You get a bonus point if you can tell me how much is the stock down from the peak of this year?

[Robert Armstrong]

50%. 25. 25.

[Katie Martin]

The correct answer is 40%.

[Robert Armstrong]

So you're closer, John.

[John Foley]

Ready? Just.

[Robert Armstrong]

Oh, this has just been a frustrating couple of questions for me. Terrible. I'm trying, I'm just. I'm keeping my chin up though. I'm still. How many questions do we have left?

[Katie Martin]

Enough. You can definitely make a comeback.

[Robert Armstrong]

I can make a comeback. Okay.

[John Foley]

And we've exhausted my specialist subjects now, which are Labubu and chicken nuggets and things that get multiplied by four.

[Katie Martin]

And sore fingers. All of those things.

[Robert Armstrong]

Sore fingers, yeah.

[Katie Martin]

Right. Okay. I now have several questions about very normal people. Question number seven. Very normal person. Tech billionaire Peter Thiel wrote in the FT in January of the need for a truth and reconciliation process to right the wrongs of the Joe Biden presidency. He has interesting views about environmental and social justice. Campaigner Greta Thunberg. What does he think she might represent?

[John Foley]

Do you want to go first, Rob?

[Robert Armstrong]

I think that he thinks she is the Antichrist. I don't remember him saying that, but I just know that he's into the Antichrist and so I'll go.

[Katie Martin]

So you're saying the Antichrist. John, any advance on Antichrist?

[John Foley]

So I agree that he thinks that she's the Antichrist. My understanding about why is that the features that the Antichrist must demonstrate are basically being intent on stopping AI and also they have to be popular and gesture is sort of both of those things.

[Robert Armstrong]

I think that's the anti Peter Thiel that you're talking about here.

[John Foley]

Same, same.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah, same thing.

[Katie Martin]

Anything he doesn't like is evident.

[Robert Armstrong]

Makes you the Antichrist.

[Katie Martin]

So he said. My thesis is that in the 17th and 18th century the Antichrist would have been a Dr. Strangelove, question mark. A scientist who did all this sort of evil, crazy science in the 21st century. The Antichrist is a Luddite who wants to stop all science. It's someone like Greta for completeness. He did offer other people who might represent the Antichrist, but Lindbergh.

[Robert Armstrong]

Am I right?

[John Foley]

He also suggested that Marc Andresen could be the Antichrist, except that he wasn't popular.

[Katie Martin]

It's all very normal. It's extremely normal to go on about the Antichrist. This is what. What we know. Okay, question number eight. Very normal person. Former British Prime Minister Liz Truss has plans to open a private members club in London, describing it as a. I love this story.

[Robert Armstrong]

What is she called?

[Katie Martin]

Nexus of quote. A global network of leaders, of entrepreneurs, of technologists based in the former MI5 headquarters. She will apparently run the AI aspect of the club. Sounds superb. I think we can all agree.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yes.

[Katie Martin]

How much will founding membership of this club cost in sterling?

[John Foley]

This is also normal, I think.

[Katie Martin]

Very normal.

[Robert Armstrong]

You take the price of a head of lettuce. Was it a head of lettuce that she. You multiply it by four. No, I think it's £10,000 just to walk in the door. No, no, no. That's not enough. That's not enough. I've learned from the earlier questions. £80,000.

[John Foley]

Oh, wow. So I was thinking like, what do people pay to send their kids to fancy schools in London? I don't really know, but I'm guessing It's something like £40,000 a year maybe. So it's probably like that at least. So maybe 50,000.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yes.

[Katie Martin]

Okay. Okay. So £80,000 says Rob. £50,000 says John. The correct answer is. Is £500,000.

[Robert Armstrong]

That's like 10 years of school at a fancy private school. And the thing is, you go to that club and everyone there is going to be so stupid. You'll feel like you had a very expensive education.

[Katie Martin]

Yes.

[Robert Armstrong]

So it's really a bargain. Probably.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Armstrong]

I mean, that's not going to happen. Right. Katie, this club is not going to come off the ground. Do you. Nobody is paying.

[Katie Martin]

I mean, I, I really hate private members clubs, but. And, and this sounds like a particularly bad one. So, yeah, everything is high quality about this very normal project. But yeah, 500 grand final, very normal person question. Very normal person. Edward Korestein was an employee of doge, which slashed U.S. government spending earlier this year. What was his nickname?

[John Foley]

Oh, I know this.

[Robert Armstrong]

I do not. I'm just happy you do know this.

[John Foley]

You do know this.

[Robert Armstrong]

Other than Antichrist, I have no guess.

[John Foley]

I believe his name was Big Balls.

[Katie Martin]

Correct.

[Robert Armstrong]

Him too.

[Katie Martin]

God. Very normal people.

[Robert Armstrong]

Very normal people.

[Katie Martin]

Loose on the federal government. It's all been. It's been an excellent year for that sort of thing. Okay, that's the end of that round. The next round is the bubble round and it's a who said it round. So you have to buzz in when you think you know who said it.

[Robert Armstrong]

Okay.

[John Foley]

Okay.

[Katie Martin]

Okay. You understand?

[John Foley]

Do I make a buzzing noise of some kind?

[Robert Armstrong]

Yes.

[Katie Martin]

Some sort of buzzing noise. Or maybe you could go Lex Foley.

[John Foley]

Or like, like a University Challenge.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Katie Martin]

Yes. Okay. Okay, here we go. Number 10. There's been a lot of talk about an AI bubble. From our vantage point, we see something very different.

[Robert Armstrong]

Ding, ding. It's the. That's the CEO of Nvidia, Jensen Wang.

[Katie Martin]

Correct. Yeah, correct.

[Robert Armstrong]

From our vantage point, this was one of the dumbest quotes of the year. It was like there. There's not a gold rush on. Look at all these shovels we're selling.

[John Foley]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Armstrong]

You know what I mean? Like, of course from, you know, it doesn't look like a bubble to you. You're selling the soap in the water that people are using in the little ring you blow through.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah. Yes. Well, one point to Rob. Okay, that's changed. When you think you know the answer. Question 11, the banking bubble, the crisis in the banking system, that's just bad. That's like 2008. Those bubbles society wants to avoid, the ones that are industrial, are not nearly as bad. They can even be good because when the dust settles and you see who are the winners. Society benefits.

[Robert Armstrong]

Okay. Yes. Was it you got it in first?

[John Foley]

I might be wrong, though. Actually, I was going to say it was Sundar Pichai Alphabet.

[Katie Martin]

You're incorrect.

[Robert Armstrong]

I have. I think it's Bill Ackman.

[Katie Martin]

Also incorrect. God damn it. It's Jeff Bezos.

[John Foley]

Jeff Bezos.

[Robert Armstrong]

I think, by the way, this is kind of true. This is not. This is not the dumbest quote of the year. So like the telecom bubble and the railway bubble and certain real estate bubbles, you do generate all these productive assets. You just have too many of them and you kind of have to grow into it. So everybody goes bankrupt. But in the long run, the stuff is there to be used.

[John Foley]

Yeah, it's like a giveaway.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Katie Martin]

So do chips last like railways? I don't know.

[Robert Armstrong]

We don't know the answer to that question. And I think a lot of these data centers out in the middle of the desert are just. It's a huge shed with a power line and a water source and nobody wants it. It has no alternative use. And if AI doesn't take off, these are just going to be dead buildings.

[Katie Martin]

It's okay because the rich Americans say it's a good bubble. So we can all be happy about that.

[John Foley]

Turn them into private members clubs.

[Robert Armstrong]

Everyone gets green chicken nuggets with caviar on them.

[Katie Martin]

It's the worst party ever. Okay. Right. No more buzzing in. We're back to normal questions. Question number 12. On October 30, a certain John Foley wrote in the FT that Don't worry, the hyperscalers are not borrowing money to fund their addiction to AI. How large in dollars was the bond issued by Meta later that very day?

[Robert Armstrong]

I'm gonna let John answer that one. He deserves a point for being teased in this way.

[John Foley]

I cannot remember. I didn't read that story.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yes.

[John Foley]

Was it something like 40 billion?

[Katie Martin]

40 billion U.S. says John Foley.

[Robert Armstrong]

I'll take the under on that. That's fine. I think it's 30 or something.

[Katie Martin]

You're saying 30?

[Robert Armstrong]

28.

[Katie Martin]

28. The correct answer is $30 billion. So, Rob, point to you.

[Robert Armstrong]

All right.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah. This is all working out.

[Robert Armstrong]

Did you really say they weren't borrowing money to do AI stuff?

[John Foley]

The nuance of it is.

[Robert Armstrong]

Did you hit your head when you broke your finger too?

[John Foley]

The nuance of it is they're borrowing money because these companies have no debt. But are they aggressively funding their infrastructure build with debt? No.

[Robert Armstrong]

I don't know if we approve of nuance on this show, Katie.

[John Foley]

No. I should have known yeah, you've been.

[Katie Martin]

On this podcast before, John. You know, there's no. There's no.

[Robert Armstrong]

Nuance is not our bag.

[John Foley]

The timing was unfortunate.

[Robert Armstrong]

Moving on, moving on.

[Katie Martin]

Question number 13. Lucky for Sun. Almost unbelievably, Meta is still. Still spending money on the Metaverse. What is the name of its avatar filled social Virtual reality experience?

[John Foley]

Reality Labs?

[Robert Armstrong]

No, that's the business division. I'll let you guess that you're wrong. Like there's a name for this place, this virtual place that you go to. Is that. Is that what you're saying, Katie?

[Katie Martin]

Yep. What's the name of this guess?

[Robert Armstrong]

I have no idea. Dorkville.

[Katie Martin]

Dorkville is incorrect. John, would you like another. Another guess?

[John Foley]

No, I thought it was just the Metaverse in Reality Labs.

[Katie Martin]

No, it's Horizon Worlds. Another question here that's related to Meta. Question number 14. The final question. As you may know, I'm a huge fan of Meta's AI enabled glasses. The perfect holiday gift for people who wish to cheat in exams. And also for perverts. How much? How much do the Wayfarer Ray Ban meta glasses retail for in the US.

[Robert Armstrong]

This is the kind of question we've demonstrated John is very good at by taking a random price and doing some kind of mathematical transformation on it. So in cans of non alcoholic beer, how much are the Metaglasses? I have some impression that those Apple Goggly things that you wore so you could compute while wearing them. My feeling is those were like in the 600 or $700 range. So I'm gonna put the Metaglass is there at 699.

[John Foley]

Oh, that sounds like a good price. So let me think about this. So how much is an iPhone? Let's say an iPhone is about $800, but you already have one of those. This isn't instead of your iPhone, but it's probably not gonna be more than that. But then like my, my specs that I bought that are just normal ones that I got from Warby Parker were probably about like $80.

[Robert Armstrong]

And they were so good that you weren't looking where you were going and you fell and broke your finger. So you might want to go up the scale a little bit there.

[John Foley]

I'm gonna take the price of my Warby Parker sunglasses and I'm glasses and I'm gonna multiply, multiply it by five this time to get $400.

[Katie Martin]

John is the winner. The correct answer is $379.

[Robert Armstrong]

Cheap.

[John Foley]

Oh, my goodness.

[Katie Martin]

Yeah. I mean, perfect for cheating in exams and, and being a stalker. Yeah, absolutely ideal.

[Robert Armstrong]

It's the price of four chicken nuggets with caviar on top at Wimbledon or wherever.

[Katie Martin]

We have a very clear winner here, ladies and gentlemen. John.

[Robert Armstrong]

I think we're all winners.

[Katie Martin]

Katie, column. No, no, no. John is the winner. Not everyone. John is the winner of 2025 with a total of 9 points. 10 if you include his bonus point for having a sore finger. Rob sadly only got six points.

[John Foley]

I do want to say that if you'd ask questions about actual important, real stuff, Rob would easily, easily have won.

[Robert Armstrong]

Getting weighted.

[Katie Martin]

John, how do you feel as the winner of 2025?

[John Foley]

Well, I needed cheering up today, Katie. I'll be honest after the finger thing. So I'm delighted.

[Katie Martin]

It's good news all round. Well, congratulations on your glorious victory, John. Listeners, if you're playing along at home, I hope you are similarly satisfied. We're going to be back in one sec. Normally with long short but today with New year's resolutions. Foreign.

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[Katie Martin]

Already we are back with New Year's resolutions. Now, Rob, I looked it up and last year you said you essentially wanted to be more mindful. You said, I'm going to concentrate in the new year.

[Robert Armstrong]

I've had a moderate amount of success with that. Only this year I am concentrating a little better. I read a few more books and things, but that's gotta be an ongoing project. I'm not quite. But this year I'm actually kind of taking the opposite tack. My New Year's resolution is like, I'm gonna indulge myself next year, okay? You know, I'm getting older and I have a life of hard work and discipline and I'm gonna do a lot of frivolous nonsense next year. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna, you know, drink when I'm thirsty and eat a lot and have fun. I'm gonna be less responsible and serious as a person in 2026.

[Katie Martin]

I'm hearing midlife crisis. John, do you have a New Year's resolution?

[John Foley]

So it's not to be mindful this year because I decided I had that last year and then I decided that mindfulness is basically victim blaming because capitalism makes us stressed. And then we pretend that it's our own fault for not being sufficiently mindful. So I'm not doing that this time. This time I'm going to get back to an old habit that I had when I first moved to the United States of reading more presidential biographies because I think it's a really interesting way of learning about the U.S. i agree.

[Robert Armstrong]

I haven't read loads, but I've read a couple of good ones. That recent grant one is quite good.

[John Foley]

Well, I've got a really good one that I'm ready to start on. President Garfield.

[Robert Armstrong]

Who?

[John Foley]

He was one of my favorite presidents.

[Robert Armstrong]

Yeah. Interesting. No wonder that's an unusual choice for a favorite.

[John Foley]

Well, not because of your. Just because of the like sort of horror around his short, brutal presidency.

[Katie Martin]

Right.

[John Foley]

Which ended with him like languishing for several days.

[Robert Armstrong]

Well, this is your way to wrap up the show, Katie. New Year's resolution.

[Katie Martin]

My New Year's resolution is I'm going to say no. More often I say yes to things that I don't really mean to say yes to. I say, yes, I'm gonna come to this event or I'm gonna go and do this thing. I'm gonna go and do that thing. And then I find myself completely overloaded and I'm just gonna say no.

[Robert Armstrong]

2026 is the year of no.

[Katie Martin]

I like that, the year of no. I'm gonna put a little post it note on my computer saying no. And that will remind me to say no to things. Chaps, it's been a joy. Thank you so much for participating in my frivolous quiz. I hope you enjoy reading presidential biographies and and being frivolous listeners wherever you're hearing this. Happy New Year. We love having you all on board and there's millions of podcasts out there, so it's like awesome that you listen to this one. So have a fabulous 2026 and we'll see you on the other side. Unhedged is produced by Jake Harper and edited by Bryant Urstadt. Our executive producer is Jacob Goldstein. Topher4Hairs is the FT acting co head of Audio. Special thanks to Laura Clark, Alistair Mackey, Greta Cohn and Natalie Sadler. FT Premium subscribers can get the Unhedged newsletter for free. A 30 day free trial is available to everyone else. Just go to ft.com unhedgedoffer I'm Katie Martin. Thanks for listening. It.