The dilapidated dollar

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unhedged – "The Dilapidated Dollar" (July 3, 2025)

In this episode of Unhedged, hosted by Katie Martin of the Financial Times and featuring senior markets reporter Ian Smith alongside guest Rachel Reeves, the discussion delves deep into the unexpected downturn of the US dollar, its broader implications on global markets, and the intertwined political and economic challenges facing major economies like the UK and the Eurozone.

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1. The Unexpected Downfall of the US Dollar

The episode opens with Ian Smith addressing the surprising performance of the US dollar, noting, "The worst start to any year, in fact, since 1973," highlighting a significant 10% drop in the dollar index against a basket of major currencies, including a remarkable 14% rally in the euro alone (02:27).

Rachel Reeves elaborates on this trend, explaining, "It's been a stunning turnaround in the dollar this year. ... a dramatic weakening in the dollar with the dollar index ... falling 10%... a massive rally in the euro up nearly 14% against the greenback" (02:27). This contradicts earlier expectations that tariffs and rising inflation would bolster the dollar, instead revealing a market sentiment that anticipates weaker US economic growth and potential interest rate cuts.

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2. Investor Sentiment and Currency Hedging Strategies

The conversation shifts to how investors are reacting to the dollar's decline. Reeves points out, "Interest rate cuts were priced in by the US Federal Reserve. But now ... four quarter point cuts that are priced in by around this time next year" (03:49). This shift reflects a broader reassessment of the US economy's prospects.

Ian Smith introduces the concept of currency hedging, stating, "People are now deciding that they need to be hedged... The irony of currency hedging is that if you're hedging against a currency risk, you're fundamentally selling that currency earlier rather than later" (07:08). This strategic move by investors not only protects against further dollar weakness but also contributes to the currency's continued decline, creating a "snowball effect" that exacerbates the dollar’s downturn (07:04).

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3. The Rising Strength of the Euro and ECB's Perspective

The euro's significant appreciation raises concerns and interest among policymakers. Rachel Reeves notes, "The European Central bank becoming quite anxious ... the rapid appreciation in the euro, which ... can provide more of a rival to the world [reserve currencies]" (09:56). Christine Lagarde, President of the ECB, has been vocal about this "global euro moment," aiming to position the euro as a stronger contender in the global financial landscape.

However, there are underlying tensions: "The stronger the euro gets, the cheaper imports into the eurozone become and possibly that ends up being a weight on inflation and starts becoming a disinflationary force" (11:13). While currently manageable at $1.17, further appreciation could pressure the ECB to consider interventions, such as potential interest rate cuts to weaken the currency (12:08).

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4. Implications for the UK and the British Pound

The episode also examines the UK's precarious fiscal situation, exacerbated by political instability. Rachel Reeves discusses recent turmoil, stating, "Concerns in the UK ... that what are they going to do to be able to keep the public finances on course ... the Prime Minister ... refused to give a really full throated commitment to the Chancellor's position" (14:43). This uncertainty has led to a 9% rise in the British pound against the dollar, alongside weakening UK government bonds.

The emotional strain on Chancellor Rachel Reeves is palpable: "As the chancellor's tears were rolling down her face, Sterling started rolling down the hill too" (16:07). Investors are wary of potential policy shifts that could lead to increased borrowing and fiscal instability, drawing parallels to past political crises.

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5. US Fiscal Policy and Sovereign Debt Concerns

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the looming impact of President Trump's expansive fiscal policies. Rachel Reeves warns, "This big package ... will add to about $3 trillion to the US national debt over the next decade" (12:38). The dual pressures of rising debt and diminishing trust in US monetary policy create what Reeves describes as a "toxic cocktail" that could further undermine the dollar's strength (13:58).

Ian Smith underscores the gravity of this situation, highlighting the potential for international investors to become more hesitant about US bonds if confidence wanes, complicating the US's ability to borrow on favorable terms.

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6. Outlook and Potential Market Reactions

Despite the challenges, Rachel Reeves expresses cautious optimism regarding the bond markets, suggesting, "Maybe ... bond market will enforce discipline on a government to kind of keep to its own rules" (19:49). She dismisses immediate fears of a sovereign debt crisis akin to the "Liz Truss style" scenario, emphasizing recent market behaviors that suggest an ability to manage fiscal pressures without catastrophic outcomes (18:57; 19:00).

Ian Smith concurs, noting that while the situation is tense, the UK and US bond markets are currently exhibiting resilience, though stakeholders remain vigilant for signs of deeper issues (19:49; 20:19).

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7. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a brief, light-hearted segment where Reeves expresses skepticism about a potential political market crisis, reinforcing the idea that while the current economic landscape is fraught with challenges, immediate disaster is not imminent. Both hosts emphasize the importance of monitoring these evolving dynamics, as global currencies and fiscal policies continue to influence each other in complex ways.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Reeves: "The dollar has been the punching bag this year for those various worries that people have." (06:05)
• Ian Smith: "The irony of currency hedging is that if you're hedging against a currency risk, you're fundamentally selling that currency earlier rather than later." (07:08)
• Rachel Reeves: "It might be a toxic cocktail on a bed of nitroglycerin, perhaps, and it's going to go down badly." (14:00)

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This episode of Unhedged provides a comprehensive analysis of the factors contributing to the US dollar's decline, the strategic responses by global investors, and the broader economic and political implications for major economies. By dissecting these interconnected issues, Katie Martin and her guests offer listeners valuable insights into the shifting landscape of global finance.

Transcript

[Katie Martin]

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[Ian Smith]

Pushkin, the dollar is having a pretty bad start to the year. The worst start to any year, in fact, since 1973, a sufficiently distant point in ancient geological history that even I was not around. Now, this was not the plan. All the big banks and investors were saying that 2025 was gonna be a biggie for the buck. Just watch it fly higher based on that old chestnut, American exceptionalism. Now, if you listen regularly to this show, you'll know that has not quite worked out. A weak currency is not necessarily a bad thing. Winners and losers, swings and roundabouts and all that. But today on the show, we're gonna unpick for you what is going on here and why do we care? And also, hey, we're the ft. We're also going to talk a little bit about the uk. We have a tearful chancellor, that's the finance minister and a tax and spend agenda that it is politely in a bit of a mess. This is Unhedged, the Markets and Finance podcast from the Financial Times and Pushkin. I'm Katie Martin, a markets columnist at the FT in tearful, worn out London. And I have a special guest today, Ian Smith, our senior markets reporter, the hardest working man at the ft, just about keeping pace with all this and managing not to cry. Not in front of me anyway.

[Rachel Reeves]

I'll keep my tears private.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah, we'll talk more about crying later, listeners, but welcome back.

[Rachel Reeves]

Thank you for having me.

[Ian Smith]

Last time you were on this podcast you were talking about Lovely Butterfly and.

[Rachel Reeves]

You still had me back.

[Ian Smith]

And we still had you back. You didn't go on our list of people who are never coming on ever again. Okay, I was wondering, so, Ian, you wrote a big story the other day about this horrible start to the year for the dollar. How horrible is it?

[Rachel Reeves]

Pretty horrible. It's been a stunning turnaround in the dollar this year. Coming into the year, people thought that Donald Trump's trade war would strengthen the dollar, maybe fuel inflation, and thus strengthen the dollar. And instead what we've seen is a dramatic weakening in the dollar with the dollar index, which measures it against a basket of currencies, including the pound and the euro and the yen falling 10%. And you've seen this massive rally in the euro in particular, up nearly 14% against the greenback.

[Ian Smith]

I don't know whether listeners might think that sounds like a lot, but that is quite a lot. For a really big currency like the dollar to fall 10% over the course of six months, that's a pretty chunky move. And actually, like currencies, markets have been sort of asleep for quite a long time. And now they've kind of woken up and they've decided they don't like, they don't like the dollar, as you say. One of the reasons for that is that everyone thought, okay, you slapped tariffs on things, then inflation goes up, and when inflation goes up, interest rates go higher and then that pulls the currency up with it. But that's not happened because instead, investors are saying, first of all, I can't really see this inflation that you guys are talking about. Second of all, this feels bad for growth, which will have the opposite effect on interest rates and therefore on the currency. So it's, it's kind of interesting in and of itself to me anyway, that we're really bad at understanding tariffs and what their macroeconomic impact is.

[Rachel Reeves]

And we're seeing that play out before us. And I suppose that then feeds into interest rate expectations, which are crucial to where currencies go and how they strengthen and weaken. And at the beginning of the year, hardly any cuts were priced in. Interest rate cuts were priced in by the US Federal Reserve. But now, over the next 12 months, even after good job numbers this week, you've got four quarter point cuts that are priced in by around this time next year. So the market has moved to anticipate a weaker US Economy than it had thought and greater interest rate cuts than it has thought. And all that helps to push the dollar down.

[Ian Smith]

Yep, yep. Meanwhile, and I keep beating up that massive man, Rob Armstrong, about this, there is this big reappraisal going on in, like, heavyweight economic and investment circles about, do we still trust the dollar? Do we still think the dollar's going to go up in times of stress? Do we still think this is going to be a reserve currency, which is kind of shorthand for a currency that lots of central banks around the world want to hold for a rainy day in case there's some sort of emergency? All of a sudden, because of this kind of slightly chaotic Trump administration economic policy, people are saying, yeah, no, maybe we don't quite trust the dollar in the way that we previously did. So there's a parallel conversation going on here. To say, you Know, lots of conservative say it very quietly but quite boring. Investors are saying maybe I need other currencies as well. Or instead that's a big factor as well here. Right.

[Rachel Reeves]

It's a huge factor. You and I talk on an almost daily basis to investors that are reassessing their dollar exposure. They're either hedging US Stock positions where they weren't hedging them before, or they are considering reducing their allocation to US assets, be that stocks or bonds. So there's definitely that reappraisal which is helping to push the dollar lower. I think currencies sometimes are the purest expression of how the market views the prospects of an economy. Right. Whereas stock blue chip stock indexes can just reflect your near term prospects for a small group of companies. Whereas a currency tells you many more things. So it tells you about that maybe weaker economy than people had anticipated. But it also tells you about investors worries on U.S. institutional strength.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah.

[Rachel Reeves]

Some of those concerns you've talked about on the show around Federal Reserve independence.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah.

[Rachel Reeves]

That feeds that. Yeah. So it's kind of the punching bag. The dollar has been the punching bag this year for those various worries that people have. And another is obviously, and this is very timely this week, the mounting sovereign debt.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah, well, let's get on to debt in a minute, but I want to rewind a tiny bit to the H word, hedging. Right. This is coming up in every conversation that you and I have with asset managers at the moment. What this means is in the past, say you're an investor, you're based in the uk, you're based in the Eurozone, whatever, for like a decade and a half you've been buying U.S. stocks. And they've done great on two levels. First of all, the stocks have just gone up a lot because the US is dead good at technology. And then on top of that, the dollar has just gradually over that period of time, until very recently, been sort of wafting higher. And so if you're an overseas investor, you, you win twice. You win because the stocks go up and you win because the currency goes up.

[Rachel Reeves]

And then you put the money back into U.S. stocks.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah.

[Rachel Reeves]

And keep your unhedged stock back going.

[Ian Smith]

Happy days. Unhedged podcast by name, unhedged podcast by nature. People are now deciding that they need to be hedged. Maybe we should change the name of this podcast to the Hedge Podcast. But what that means is if you're still going to buy U.S. stocks, for example, and you're not based in the U.S. you're not based in dollars, you hedge out the currency risk. So you buy derivatives or you buy other currencies that mean that cushioned, so that if the currency keeps falling, you don't necessarily take such a big hit off it. Now, the irony of currency hedging is that if you're hedging against a currency risk, you're fundamentally selling that currency earlier rather than later. So the more hedging you get, the more dollar weakness you get. And that sort of snowball effect is to an extent what we're starting to see and why the dollar has been falling lately. But like, currency hedging is such a big issue for investors now, it's massive.

[Rachel Reeves]

I think it's both that investors are saying, well, that virtuous cycle of US assets rising and the dollar rising, which was helping me, isn't what isn't working. But it's also that during this time of kind of global trade tensions and stress, the dollar has not also provided that counterweight that it has when you had that unhedged position that it has in times past. So I think there's two good reasons why investors are saying, now, perhaps I need to hedge. But you're right, the hedging activity itself is putting pressure on the dollar. And it's interesting the ways that investors are looking to go around hedging.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah. So you and I were in a call hosted by Barclays the bank, the other day, and we were talking about currency hedging because, as I say, everyone's.

[Rachel Reeves]

Talking about currency hedging and we're boring.

[Ian Smith]

And we're quite boring like that. Yeah. And they were saying that for a lot of investors around the world, they think, huh, I want to hedge out my dollar risk, but say I'm in like a, like maybe one of the Nordic countries that has like the Norwegian kroner or the. Or the Swedish kroner, or maybe you're in an Asian country that doesn't have a particularly liquid currency. So actually, hedging out dollar risk against your own currency can be like a bit of a pain and quite expensive and not that easy to do. So what a lot of investors around the world are doing is saying, okay, I'm not going to hedge out my Swedish Krona risk, or I'm not going to hedge out my Korean Won risk. I'm just going to buy Euros instead to provide that counterbalance that I think is really quite interesting and goes a long way to explaining why the euro is up like 14% against the dollar so far this year, whereas the dollar measured against a Basket of currencies writ large. That's more like 10%, isn't it?

[Rachel Reeves]

Yeah, and that's really interesting. And it's partly then a bet on the euro and that European revival that we've talked about as well. You've got some exposure to that there.

[Ian Smith]

But.

[Rachel Reeves]

But yeah, that third currency hedging is such an interesting trend. And what we're actually seeing is the policymakers at the European Central bank becoming quite anxious, or at least watching closely this rapid appreciation in the euro, which, if it continues, will start to push prices down across the eurozone. And that's an interesting one where the ECB has supported this new global role for the euro. Christine Lagarde has talked about that and that it can provide more of a rival to the world.

[Ian Smith]

She's the president at the ECB and she's talked about this global euro moment. And everyone in Europe is on board with this global euro moment thing. We were talking about that, Rob and I, in the last podcast. The problem with that is that you do have a stronger euro. Now, are we at the point where the European Central bank really gets its knickers in a twist about the level of the euro? I think no. We're at $1.17. I'm old enough to remember where like $1.30 was like a pretty normal level for the euro to be trading at. So I don't think they're like alarm bells just yet. But as you say, the stronger the euro gets, the cheaper imports into the eurozone become and possibly that ends up being a weight on inflation and starts becoming a disinflationary force.

[Rachel Reeves]

And we're seeing that already, like, and we're seeing that already in Switzerland, where, you know, it's pushing through deflationary forces there. And you've had that dramatic appreciation of the Swiss franc. It's very similar dynamic in the euro area. You already have exporters that are kind of like facing the hit from that, their goods becoming less competitive. So I think the sharpness of the appreciation is going to be key from here. Yet it might not get to the level it's been recent years, but if it's very sharp, then that could create more of an issue for policymakers. I think it's one that, just like you say, they're just watching at the moment, but given those wider forces we're talking about and people's greater use of the euro dollar as an avenue new to hedge, it will be interesting if we see much greater euro appreciation or faster, that creates more of a problem.

[Ian Smith]

Yeah. European Central bank might come under pressure to cut interest rates just to try and weaken the currency. Not a conversation that they're having today.

[Rachel Reeves]

But it's something that analysts are saying.

[Ian Smith]

Watch out for it. Yeah, yeah. Now, looming over all of this is Donald Trump's one big beautiful bill, which is a long way from, through the process to become one big beautiful act and actually happening. This big package, this involves. I can't even remember the numbers, but it involves, like much wider deficits. It involves lots and lots of borrowing in the government bond markets. How does this plug into how the dollar performs?

[Rachel Reeves]

I think this is one of those worries that has been weighing on the dollar and you've had those periods where Treasuries and the dollar have sold off at the same time, which was familiar.

[Ian Smith]

US government bonds and the. Do they sort of normally go in opposite directions, but you know, but sometimes they don't.

[Rachel Reeves]

And we know that in the UK because it happens about every six months. Yes, yes, we have bouts of this. So, yeah, the big beautiful bill, I think it's estimated it will add to about $3 trillion to the US national debt over the next decade. So significant rise in debt to a degree. This is something that investors generally haven't had to worry about. Sovereign debt has been rising for a long time. The US because of the status of the, the dollar and the status of Treasuries as the reliable kind of world currency, world reserve asset held by those central banks you mentioned, because there's vast appetite, and there always has been for those things, the US has been able to borrow more freely than other countries. The worry is that if you get a situation where the US is both borrowing much more from international investors at a moment at which those investors are saying, well, I'm slightly more concerned about the path of U.S. policymaking, monetary doll dollar and monetary policy credibility, that you could have that kind of toxic mix. We love to describe a toxic mix.

[Ian Smith]

Love a toxic mix in a newspaper.

[Rachel Reeves]

But you might have that toxic mix.

[Ian Smith]

It's a toxic cocktail.

[Rachel Reeves]

It might be a toxic cocktail on a bed of nitroglycerin, perhaps, and it's going to go down badly. Cheers.

[Ian Smith]

Nice. Laying on the puns and the cheese right here. Now then, the dollar has been doing sufficiently badly this year that lots of other currencies have been rising against it, including even, oh, small bean, little British pound, which is not necessarily over the years been the world's most popular major currency. But sterling is up by about 9% so far this year against the dollar to $1.36 until drumroll this week. Oh, unpleasant scenes. Tell the world about the unpleasant scenes.

[Rachel Reeves]

So what we've had are mounting concerns in the UK that some of the things that our UK Finance Minister, the Chancellor, was going to do to balance the books are going to be politically impossible to achieve. And we've seen them row back most recently on reforms to welfare that were going to save money. And so you've had this creeping worry from investors that what are they going to do to be able to keep the public finances on course in the run up to the budget? And the pressure around this really told on Wednesday when the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, the UK Parliament, refused to give a really full throated commitment to the Chancellor's position for the foreseeable future, kind of step back of a full commitment. And that really worried investors about the future of this Chancellor and whether she might be replaced by someone less committed to her fiscal rules or who might change the fiscal rules and. And then that would lead to more borrowing. And this was very dramatic in how it played out in the House of Commons, because, as everyone will have seen, the Chancellor was, you know, in tears on the benches.

[Ian Smith]

So Rachel Reeves was sort of sitting just behind Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister.

[Rachel Reeves]

And we don't know exactly why she.

[Ian Smith]

Was upset, we don't know exactly why she was upset, but she looked very tired and she'd had a really difficult job trying to get this welfare package through Parliament.

[Rachel Reeves]

And bad news from the Office for Budget Responsibility the previous day, which, you know, portended kind of worse figures when the budget comes so high, high stress moment.

[Ian Smith]

High, high stress. The stress is clearly telling on her. And there were tears rolling down her face. It was quite unpleasant to watch. I think, you know, it takes a cold, dark heart not to feel at least a tiny bit sorry for Rachel Reeves here. But the problem was that as the Teals tears were rolling down her face, Sterling started rolling down the hill too. So Sterling was weakening and UK government bonds started weakening and it all looked like a very unpleasant situation. And actually the weakening in UK government bonds was fairly big. You know, it was, it was not trivial. So suddenly the world starts saying, oh, look, it's another Liz Truss moment. You know, the government has blown up the bond market again. For the record, that is not the case. This is not as dramatic, it was not as serious. And, you know, Rachel Reeves has got pressure from two directions, right? So if the US does manage to blow up its bond market and jack up US borrowing costs, then that will pull up UK borrowing costs with it. But also the domestic political picture is incredibly awkward. I mean, if US listeners, if you can imagine Scott Besant gently weeping while his boss is standing in front of him talking about the one big beautiful bill that's what we've had over here. It was really, really unpleasant to watch, but.

[Rachel Reeves]

And she doesn't have many good options from here. No, the viewer. I spoke to many investors over the past couple of days. They don't think they can cut spending more without really hurting the economy. The broad expectation is for some kind of tax rises, but that's politically difficult. But what happens in the U.S. as you say, is going to be really key. The other scenario is, from the one you lay out is that perhaps US Treasuries rally over the coming months. We do get some of those interest rate cuts. The economy has weakened to allow for those cuts.

[Ian Smith]

Maybe the US gets us out of a hole.

[Rachel Reeves]

The US treasury yields come down, its borrowing costs come down and as they tend to do, they move in lockstep often pull UK borrowing costs down with them and give the chance for a bit more room ahead of the budget. I'm sure that's what they're hoping that we can just keep the show on the road, hope that we get a fair wind from the U.S. but what we've learned from recent months is that we don't always get that fair wind and sometimes we become, I think you've put it in your columns in the past and the ugliest horse in the glue factory when people get worried about sovereign debt.

[Ian Smith]

Yep, Yep. We like to end these discussions on, on a really stupid question that gives you the ability to look stupid in future. So would you rule out a Liz Truss style guilt market crisis over the course of this year?

[Rachel Reeves]

This is like a career ending question.

[Ian Smith]

When I get this, I asked it in.

[Rachel Reeves]

Oh, I better look for something else to do. Yes. You know, I started out writing about pension funds. The leverage that pension funds were running in their liability driven investment strategies that helped to create that for selling that we saw in 2022. There have been reforms since, regulatory changes that forced them to reduce their leverage people in the market. We've reported that BlackRock, Fidelity International Schroders bought UK government bonds as they were selling on the cheap. So you've got what everyone says is an orderly market. It didn't get as bad. So, you know, I suppose maybe I hope more than a bet that it is a different situation where the market does broadly expect that the bond market will enforce discipline. So it might be more one of those markets where you understand it as a bond market enforcing discipline on a government to kind of keep to its own rules.

[Ian Smith]

So no crisis, says Ian. I'm minded to agree with you, but I do think yesterday was quite an unpleasant reminder of again just how little wiggle room Rachel Reeves has. Speaking of limited wiggle room, we have very limited wiggle room ourselves. So we are going to be back in just one sec with Long Short.

[Katie Martin]

Speaking of alternatives, a podcast from pgym. We take you beyond the headlines, exploring timely insights from the industry experts.

[Bill Ackman]

Our belief in sizing really is a key metric to think about in this business, in long, short equity and frankly in any sort of investing, there's really two parts to it. One part is hit rate how many ideas actually work, long or short. But I believe the more important part is the slugging. So for every dollar you lose, how many dollars do you make?

[Katie Martin]

Tune in to Speaking of alternatives, a podcast from PGym.

[Ian Smith]

Okey doke, it is time for Long Short, that part of the show where we go long a thing we love or short a thing we hate. Ian, like I say, last time you were long butterflies, which was a very beautiful moment on the unhedged podcast. What have you got today?

[Rachel Reeves]

So last time butterflies. This time forensic accountants.

[Ian Smith]

Okay.

[Rachel Reeves]

Yeah.

[Ian Smith]

Why are you long forensic accountants?

[Rachel Reeves]

I'm putting a long term bear, very long term on forensic accountancy because as you've. Because I think that this trend that we've seen, you've talked about your video with strategy of companies buying bitcoin, adding it to their holdings, changing their nature is going to create a long term accounting mess. And then we're going to need forensic accountants to come in and help tidy this up.

[Ian Smith]

Boom time for forensic accountants and lawyers. Certainly I am long and I've only just been informed of this, but I love it very much the news that Bill Ackman, the billionaire hedge fund politics botherer in New York, wants a national tennis ranking. So he's 59 years old and he wants to get on the kind of competitive list of proper tennis players in the U.S. is there anything this man cannot do? Ian?

[Rachel Reeves]

No, not as far as he's concerned. Certainly not. What do you think? Footfall or.

[Ian Smith]

I don't know. But I love this effort and ideally I want to see video.

[Rachel Reeves]

Ideally, the shorts are. Shorts are tight.

[Ian Smith]

The shorts are very tight.

[Rachel Reeves]

The racket is wooden.

[Ian Smith]

What I would say is this does feel like that thing where, you know, like something like 20% of men think they could beat Serena Williams in a match of tennis like it feels, of course.

[Rachel Reeves]

Isn'T it? Just get one point offer. Yeah, yeah, let's just get one point.

[Ian Smith]

It feels a bit like that. I am long. I love this very much. Listeners, what crazy sporting endeavours are you going to be undertaking? Unhedgedt.com let us know. In the meantime, we'll be back in your ears on Tuesday, so stay unemotional and listen up then. Unhedged is produced by Jake Harper and edited by Brian Urstadt. Our executive producer is Jacob Goldstein. We had additional help from Topher Forges. Cheryl Brumley is the FT's global head of Audio. Special thanks to Laura Clark, Alistair Mackey, Greta Cohn and Natalie Sadler. FT Premium subscribers can get the Unhedged newsletter for free. A 30 day free trial is available to everyone else. Just go to FT.com unhedged offer I'm Katie Martin. Thanks for listening. Sam.