UnHerd with Freddie Sayers

Episode Title: Danish minister: Here's how we controlled immigration
Guest: Carsten Duvander (Former Danish Immigration Minister)
Date: February 16, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and in-depth interview with Carsten Duvander, former Danish Immigration Minister (2022-2025), now Denmark’s Employment Minister. Host Freddie Sayers explores Denmark’s unique approach to immigration—particularly the Social Democrats’ tough, restrictionist stance—unusually found on the political left. The conversation covers Denmark’s integration policies, asylum laws, efforts to combat ghettoization, and the broader lessons for other Western democracies facing immigration crises.

Key Discussion Points

1. Why a Centre-Left Party Supports Restrictive Immigration (03:17–04:09)

• Duvander argues that unchecked migration disproportionately impacts working- and middle-class communities, the bedrock of the Social Democratic voter base.
  • Affluent areas benefit from cheap labor, while less wealthy areas feel “the burden of integrating people who are coming from abroad.”
  • The party’s stance is about protecting “…some of those communities, some of those people, from the negative sides of uncontrolled migration.”

“Our analysis from start was that working class communities are more hurt by uncontrolled migration.”
— Carsten Duvander, 03:17

• Historically, left-wing parties were skeptical of migration, but this switched when the focus shifted from labor migration to asylum seekers.

2. Denmark’s Asylum and Return Policy (05:19–07:43)

• Denmark’s formula is strict: only those with proven asylum claims (i.e., fleeing personal persecution) or on a valid work scheme can stay.
  • Anyone else, especially those deemed ‘economic migrants,’ is denied.
  • This has led to a notable reduction in asylum applications.

“No one can apply spontaneously for asylum…and still stay in Denmark because you don’t have that opportunity. You return to your home country, and that has resulted in a large drop in number of people seeking asylum.”
— Carsten Duvander, 06:02

• Denmark formalizes this as a “support and return” policy. Even temporary asylum (‘temporary protection’) comes with the expectation that return will follow once the home country is deemed safe, e.g., Syrians returning to Syria, sometimes with up to £80–90,000 per family as incentive.

• Duvander acknowledges most refugees are reluctant to return, as economic opportunity in Europe is a strong pull.

3. Legal Challenges and Practical Impediments (07:43–08:35)

• Individual appeals and European-level regulations slow down deportations, particularly for families with children “attached to Danish society.”
• Denmark still moves to revoke permits; for instance, even long-term residents from “peaceful” Damascus lose their right to stay if the situation allows.

“We would revoke it. We have done it for series of cases from Damascus…We’re trying, of course, to say to a lot of the Syrians…they have the opportunity to go home.”
— Carsten Duvander, 08:35

4. Cultural Values, Integration, and Testing (09:10–09:56)

• Permanent residency or citizenship require language proficiency, employment, and a clean criminal record—no direct ‘values-based’ or religious tests to stay.

  • Integration is assumed to occur through societal participation.
  • Duvander: “I think it would be impossible to make a state bureaucracy do that in a way that still has respect for legal procedures.”

• But messages are clear: if a person “think[s] that western society is immoral and doesn’t fit their way of life…they would have better opportunity to live that dream…in Syria.” (09:56)

5. Denmark’s Policy vs. 'Remigration' (12:47–14:44)

• Sayers asks whether Denmark’s practice is akin to the far-right concept of ‘remigration’—a buzzword for returning migrants en masse.
• Duvander distances Danish policy:
  • Remigration “means that people who have permanent residency, who have citizenship…should be returned. We have nothing…close to that in our policy.”
  • The red line: if someone has gained citizenship, “that is a kind of sacred moment which you can’t go back from.”
  • Policies are strictly about legal status, not ethnicity or race.

“As I understand re migration, what it means is that people who have different ethnic, racial background…should be returned. And I think that is an obvious racist policy that we would never support.”
— Carsten Duvander, 14:15

6. Preventing Ghettos and Promoting Assimilation (15:17–17:55)

• Denmark targets ‘ghettos’—high-immigrant, low-income housing estates—by:

  • Limiting non-Western residents to 30% in designated areas;
  • Requiring jobs or student status to move there;
  • Mixing public and private housing to foster integration.

• Results are mostly positive, with some areas seeing marked drops in unemployment and crime.

“With some areas, we’ve gone from 60% out of job to 21%. It’s really pulling in the right direction. Less crime, more people in education.”
— Carsten Duvander, 17:32

7. Symbolic Integration—Mandatory Handshakes (17:55–20:16)

• New Danish citizens must shake hands during the official ceremony, regardless of religious background.
• Intended to enforce the principle of gender equality as a “fundamental value.”
• Sayers pushes on whether this is messaging or substance; Duvander is unequivocal: “If people think that their religious beliefs is more important than the fundamental values in the Danish society…they have to ask themselves if this is the right place to be.” (18:22)

“When you have the ceremony that gives you the citizenship...you have to shake a hand with the mayor...”
— Carsten Duvander, 18:22

8. Impact and Efficacy of Denmark’s Policies (20:16–22:46)

• Asylum seeking has dropped from 21,300 in 2015 to 2,300 in 2024.
• Communication and “messaging” play a role: human smugglers now steer traffic away from Denmark to countries perceived as ‘softer’.
• For Duvander, the core is ensuring laws are enforced: those with no right to remain are returned, as a basic function of statehood, akin to obeying tax laws.

“To enforce legislation is the fundamental of a state...if you can’t control that then I think you have a larger problem.”
— Carsten Duvander, 21:41

9. Responding to Critics and the Far-Right Surge (22:46–24:08)

• Some say the Social Democrats’ stance failed to stem far-right gains.
• Duvander disagrees: the Danish far-right polls at 8–9%, while Social Democrats are still in power—unlike much of northern Europe.
  • Cites having “listened to legitimate grievances” about immigration as the reason for the party’s success.

10. Lessons for the UK and Other Countries (24:08–24:59)

• Duvander advises the UK to persist with effective deportation processes:
  • Due process for arrivals, but “if they are rejected they are also sent out of the country.”
  • “Stick to that policy even if you’re criticized from the left wing.”

“You need to make sure that everyone who’s coming to the UK knows that if it doesn’t have legal residency they don’t have a future here.”
— Carsten Duvander, 24:40

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Why tough immigration is a left-wing priority:
  “Working class communities are more hurt by uncontrolled migration.” (03:17)

• Clear legal boundary:
  “If you don’t follow those rules you should be forcefully sent out of the country.” (21:33)

• On citizenship as sacred:
  “If someone has been given a passport…that is a kind of sacred moment which you can’t go back from.” (13:57)

• On handshakes and values:
  “Gender equality is a fundamental value that we cannot compromise on, especially not for religious reasons.” (18:22)

Major Takeaways

• Denmark’s Social Democrats have defied the usual left-right political divide by making restrictionist immigration policy a key left-wing tenet, with a rationale rooted in social equity.
• Strict enforcement, clear legal standards, and symbolic acts (like mandatory handshakes) are all part of Denmark’s strategy to both discourage ‘asylum shopping’ and encourage integration.
• The approach is controversial, but—according to Duvander—effective, both in policy outcomes and in maintaining voter trust.
• The Danish case offers a provocative model that challenges assumptions about immigration, integration, and the political spectrum in Western democracies.