UnHerd with Freddie Sayers

Episode: John Bolton: Trump should finish the job
Guest: Former US National Security Advisor & UN Ambassador John Bolton
Date: April 10, 2026
Host: James Billo (for UnHerd)

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with John Bolton, a leading US foreign policy hawk and proponent of regime change in Iran for decades. While recent UnHerd episodes highlighted critics of the US military campaign against Iran, this conversation gives voice to an opposing, more hawkish view: Bolton's argument that Donald Trump’s actions have been insufficient, falling short of the regime change necessary to neutralize the Iran threat. The episode explores the aims, execution, and consequences of the US campaign against Iran, with Bolton offering historical analogies, critiques of Trump, and a full-throated case for finishing the job.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rationale for Regime Change in Iran

• Bolton’s Core Position: Only regime change can remove the dangers posed by the Islamic Republic, including nuclear proliferation, terrorism, and regional destabilization (03:13, 04:36, 08:34).
  • Bolton: “The only solution is regime change” (03:13).
  • Military attacks, like those conducted thus far, are merely “mowing the lawn”—temporarily degrading capacity without solving the underlying threat.
• Critique of Trump’s Strategy: Bolton questions Trump’s objectives, preparation, and consistency regarding Iran, suggesting the administration lacks a clear end goal and strategic vision (03:13, 04:36).
  • Quote: "Simply attacking Iran is what the Israelis sometimes call mowing the lawn ... The issue is not are we using military force, but for what objectives, for what purpose and with what preparation." (03:13)

2. Legitimacy, Strategy, and Imminence

• On Legitimacy: Bolton argues that the US is justified in preemptive self-defense, especially in the WMD era, citing Bush administration policy (04:36).
  • Quote: “Preventative self defense, particularly against the threat of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, was appropriate.” (04:36)
• On ‘Imminence’: He dismisses the need for proof of an imminent threat, warning against the consequences of waiting too long and the risks posed by “religious fanatics seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.” (05:36)
  • Quote: “How’d you like to see an American city under a mushroom cloud? Not a present proposition...” (05:36)

3. Assessment of Current US-Iran Policy

• Effectiveness So Far: Bolton says recent military actions caused “substantial damage” to Iran’s military and nuclear capacity, leading to cracks in the regime, but are incomplete and risk losing momentum with a pause (06:29).
  • Quote: “It was incomplete. I think it was a mistake to stop. But that assumes that there is a clear objective.” (06:29)
• Risks of Half Measures: Bolton warns that ceasefires or partial truces “allow the regime to regroup” and lead to increased repression at home (06:29, 08:02).
• Dangerous New Precedents: Iran’s newfound control over the Strait of Hormuz is now an added economic threat on top of nuclear and terror concerns (08:34).
  • Quote: “It adds a third major threat that justifies regime change...there’s now the economic threat to the global economy that they have materialized by their actions.” (08:34)

4. Negotiation vs. Military Solution

• Skepticism Towards Negotiations: Bolton dismisses the possibility of moderating the Iranian regime’s behavior through diplomacy, as “the ideology of the Islamic revolution permeates the structures” and leadership turnover changes nothing (10:21).
  • Quote: “The faces may be different, but he’s negotiating with the same regime.” (10:21)

5. Lessons from Iraq and Models for Iran

• Comparison to Iraq: Bolton remains unapologetic about regime change in Iraq, noting Saddam was removed and Iraq gave up WMD and terror ambitions (11:43). He argues that, though imperfect, the Iraq precedent succeeded in eliminating the core external threat.
  • Critique: He distinguishes Iraq errors (trying to politically administer the country directly) from what he advocates for Iran: overthrow, but not nation-building (14:01).
    • Quote: "The mistake the US made in Iraq... was becoming... a political player ourselves by creating the Coalition Provisional Authority. I didn’t think at the time that was the right thing to do." (14:01)
• Alternative Government: Bolton rejects the need for a “credible alternative” pre-identified opposition; points to postwar Germany and Japan lacking ready-made replacements (15:06).
  • Quote: “The idea that if we just have an alternative, that that’s required before we overthrow the existing regime is just wrong.” (15:06)
• Nature of Post-Regime-Change Iran: Envisions a military government from conventional forces as a likely “benign outcome” pending transition (15:06).

6. Supporting and Arming Opposition Groups

• Approach: Advocates US support for “pretty much anybody inside Iran who’s opposed to the regime” with core conditions: no WMD, no terrorism, no Hormuz blockade (15:59, 21:09).
  • Quote: “We wouldn’t support any internal group that said we want an Iranian nuclear weapon... [or] ... we intend to conduct external terrorist activities... [or] ...they wouldn’t close the Strait of Hormuz.” (21:09)
• Risks & Precedent: Acknowledges the checkered US history with proxies but insists these conditions mitigate the risk of empowering equally bad successors.

7. Further Steps to Escalate Pressure

• Military Actions: Proposes continued and intensified strikes on IRGC infrastructure, likening their buildup to Hamas’ tunnel networks. (22:52)
  • Quote: “They have spent enormous amounts of money building up their military capabilities while the economy of Iran... has dropped into the cellar.” (22:52)
• Economic Blockade: Recommends blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, strict sanctions, and impounding of Iranian oil shipments to choke regime finances (23:23, 23:55).
  • Quote: “We should impound ships that come out of the Strait of Hormuz...sell it and put it in a fund that we would control for the reconstruction of Iran once there’s a new regime in place.” (23:55)
• Avoiding Infrastructure Destruction: Opposes destroying Iran’s oil production outright, preferring measures that don’t leave future civilian or successor governments crippled (29:23).
  • Quote: “We don’t want to make it impossible for a new regime.” (29:23)

8. Viability & Political Realities

• Is This Possible? Bolton says the only limit is political will and preparation, noting Trump’s failure to “bring the country, party, and Congress along” (32:27).
  • Quote: “If he doesn’t, it’s his own fault for not having prepared the country, the party and the Congress before going in.” (32:27)
• Allied Reluctance: Recognizes European resistance and declining Western appetite for intervention, calling out the West for wanting outcomes but “not wanting to do anything about them.” (33:08, 33:17)
  • Quote: “It wants a lot of things. It just doesn't want to do anything about them.” (33:17)

9. Bolton’s Relationship with Trump & Broader Strategy

• Falling Out: Host highlights Bolton’s criticisms of Trump, who lacked philosophical consistency and policy discipline (33:23, 34:12).
  • Quote: “Trump doesn’t have a philosophy. He doesn’t have a national security grand strategy. He doesn’t do policy the way most people understand that term.” (34:12)
• Trump’s Apparent U-turn: Despite winning in part on anti-interventionism, Trump has “come much closer to the John Bolton point of view than anyone might have predicted,” yet without strategic rigor (33:23–34:39).
• How Trump Makes Decisions: Bolton argues they are “based on neuron flashes,” not grand strategy (35:31).
• Potential Outcomes & Risks: Warns that partial military action risks failure “in part” and undermines US interests and the Trump presidency (36:33).
  • Quote: “He could end up with the worst of all worlds. Having used military force and failed. That would be a mortal blow to his presidency, and its effect on the United States would be negative.” (36:04)

10. Bolton’s Political Philosophy

• Not a Neoconservative: Bolton distances himself from neoconservatism, calls himself a “Barry Goldwater conservative”—focused on pragmatic, hard-power defense of US interests (37:22, 37:39).
  • Quote: "I'm a Barry Goldwater conservative." (37:22)
  • “It’s a theory that you solve problems, you don’t massage them... what I’m talking about is stricter defense and advancement of core American national security interest of the old fashioned kind rather than philosophical crusades.” (37:39)
• Advocacy for US Strength: Insists American assertiveness deters, not provokes, global instability.
  • Quote: “It's not American strength that's provocative. It's American weakness that's provocative.” (38:31)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "The only solution is regime change."
  — John Bolton, (03:13)
• "Simply attacking Iran is what the Israelis sometimes call mowing the lawn ... The issue is not are we using military force, but for what objectives, for what purpose and with what preparation." (03:13)
• "You may wait too long. How'd you like to see an American city under a mushroom cloud?" (05:36)
• "The faces may be different, but he's negotiating with the same regime." (10:21)
• "We didn't have an alternative government for Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan for that matter." (15:06)
• "I would support pretty much anybody inside Iran who's opposed to the regime ... We're not talking about Switzerland here." (15:59)
• "If we just have an alternative, that that's required before we overthrow the existing regime is just wrong." (15:06)
• "We should impound ships that come out of the Strait of Hormuz and just store them somewhere, or offload the oil and sell it and put it in a fund that we would control for the reconstruction of Iran." (23:55)
• "Trump doesn't have a philosophy. He doesn't have a national security grand strategy. He doesn't do policy the way most people understand that term." (34:12)
• “I'm a Barry Goldwater conservative.” (37:22)
• "It's not American strength that's provocative. It's American weakness that's provocative." (38:31)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Bolton’s Why for Regime Change: 03:13–04:22
• Debate on Imminence & Preemption: 05:36–06:21
• Damage Assessment of US Actions: 06:29–08:02
• On Negotiation & Regime Ideology: 10:21–11:15
• Iraq Analogy & What Was Learned: 11:43–15:06
• How to Support Opposition & Conditions: 15:59–16:41, 21:09
• Detailed Escalation Proposals (military/economic): 21:56–23:55
• On Allies’ Reluctance & Political Will: 32:27–33:23
• Philosophy, Trump, and Strategy: 34:12–35:42
• Summary of Political Philosophy: 37:22–38:31

Tone and Style

Direct, strategic, historical. Bolton is unapologetic, analytical—even coldly pragmatic—about the uses of force and regime change as tools in national security, frequently invoking precedents and dismissing concerns about unintended consequences if certain conditions are met.

Summary

John Bolton’s message to President Trump, and to the US public, is clear and unwavering: The current US campaign against Iran is incomplete, lacking both clarity of purpose and sufficient force to achieve its only meaningful objective—regime change. Bolton draws sharp lessons from history, particularly Iraq, warning against half-measures and dismissing the prospects for successful negotiation with the current Iranian regime. He advocates for a full-spectrum approach—continued military strikes on the IRGC, a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, and active support for internal dissidents—arguing these are the only paths likely to eliminate the threat of Iranian nuclear weapons, terrorism, and global economic instability. He largely accepts the risks, rejects analogies to failed US interventions, and insists the alternative is to face an emboldened and ever more dangerous adversary. For Bolton, as always, anything less than finishing the job is failure.