UnHerd with Freddie Sayers — Robby Soave on 'Epstein Derangement Syndrome'

Date: February 11, 2026
Host: Freddie Sayers (UnHerd)
Guest: Robby Soave (Senior Editor at Reason)

Episode Overview

This episode examines the public and media frenzy surrounding the release of the “Epstein files,” delving into the consequences of mass disclosure of private correspondence and investigative notes linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Freddie Sayers and Robby Soave explore the impact on privacy, due process, and the blurring line between actual crimes and mere association, against the backdrop of frenetic political and media speculation. Soave introduces the notion of "Epstein Derangement Syndrome"—the irrational, hysterical reaction and conspiratorial thinking inflamed by these disclosures.

Key Topics and Insights

1. The Unprecedented Disclosure of Epstein Files

• [02:02–03:54]

  • Freddie Sayers opens from UnHerd’s New York office, observing that the Epstein story grips both the UK and US, implicating high-level figures and triggering cascading resignations and panic.
  • The host describes the bombshell release: not just emails but vast troves of raw, uncorroborated investigative files dumped into the public domain.
  • “It is all encompassing...If you raise a question on social media...pretty soon you will receive incoming messages accusing you of somehow being a paedophile or defending paedophiles.” — Freddie Sayers ([02:42])

• [04:35–06:19]

  • Robby Soave voices concern, despite being in favor of transparency:
    • Disparate files include unverified tips, police interviews, rumors—raw material not intended for public consumption.
    • Many names mentioned are done so baselessly, or are outright debunked.
    • “These are not corroborated. They could be crazy people.” — Robby Soave ([05:02])

2. Collateral Damage and the Erosion of Due Process

• [06:19–09:45]
  • Sayers cites Rep. Clay Higgins’ lone congressional “no” vote on releasing files, quoting Higgins:
    “This type of broad reveal...will absolutely result in innocent people being hurt. Not by my vote.” ([06:29])
  • Soave affirms this concern:
    • Social media instantly uses snippets out-of-context to generate guilt-by-association narratives.
    • Misattributions abound, e.g., viral but false claims about J.K. Rowling and images misidentified as incriminating (e.g., Glenn Dubin's "compromising" photo was of him with his own children).
    • “You can't just show me evidence and say...He assaulted them. And then I find out after googling...those are his own children.” — Robby Soave ([09:45])

3. Privacy Principles and Guilt by Association

• [11:11–13:37]

  • Sayers highlights the gravity of publicly releasing millions of private emails:
    • Ordinary correspondence can appear sinister, even if innocuous.
    • Emphasizes the importance of upholding due process, not convicting by mere association.
    • Soave recounts easily debunked hysteria, like the “nine-year-old” email (that was just a typo for 19).

• Memorable Quote:
  “We've reached the stage with this Epstein story that just a screen grab of an email...if it ends with an X...is, I don't know, evidence of guilt. It's literally the dictionary definition of guilt by association.” — Freddie Sayers ([11:20])

4. Political Tribalism: Clinton vs. Trump and Beyond

• [15:24–18:01]
  • Sayers and Soave discuss how the “Epstein Derangement Syndrome” plays into American political polarization:
    • Right-wing voices saw the files as a weapon against the Clintons; left-wing media ran with it when a Trump angle appeared.
    • "A story is only interesting to the mainstream media if it can somehow relate to and hopefully damage Donald Trump. Damn the relevant facts." — Robby Soave ([16:29])
    • Both agree that no genuine evidence has emerged linking Trump or the Clintons to actual Epstein crimes.

5. Morality, Loyalty, and ‘Cancel Culture’

• [18:01–21:31]
  • Sayers takes a nuanced view, questioning whether associating with a disgraced person post-conviction should itself be damning:
    • Argues that friendship, loyalty, or ongoing correspondence isn't necessarily complicity.
    • Soave distinguishes between “bad judgment” and criminal evidence, urging against equating the two:
      • “We don't usually say…I have a hunch that Bill Gates is not totally moral…Let’s…release damaging investigative files about him to prove he was still friends with someone who was creepy. That is not a usual way we operate.” ([20:38])
      • There’s a critical distinction between evidence of crime and evidence of bad judgment or superficial association.

6. Witch Hunts, Moral Panics, and Media Incentives

• [25:10–28:57]
  • The duo connect the Epstein panic to a larger climate of witch hunts and moral crusades, where stories become vehicles for public disgust at "elite" behavior, not necessarily criminal wrongdoing.
    • Soave calls out the dangerous dynamic:
      • “There is an automatic good faith or belief being extended to people who describe themselves as victims. That is more complicated…many of these victims…would not testify against him, would not say they were abused by him. That came out later after they were offered financial reason to do so.” ([27:47])

7. Searching for "Voices of Sanity"

• [28:57–31:37]
  • Sayers wonders if there are prominent, sane voices left:
    • Soave notes that some politicians—Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna—and a handful of independent media types are calling for genuine transparency and perspective, not hysteria.
    • “We are just the people who urged caution in so many other examples of witch hunts and moral panic, and we are now sounding that same alarm bell, and I hope that idea gathers steam.” — Robby Soave ([31:18])

8. Fallout and Potential Consequences

• [33:08–36:36]
  • Sayers points to the tangible fallout in the UK—resignations at the highest levels—while Soave doubts there will be major American political resignations, but laments the professional ruination of non-famous people through flimsy association.
    • Names can now be listed on the House floor with only the vaguest “incrimination”, which may mean very little in actual evidence.
    • “At some point when you keep saying we’re about to get…this happens with so many other…with the endless aliens disclosures or JFK or the moon. And at some point it takes on that level of I am willing to believe a conspiracy theory will turn out to be true.” — Robby Soave ([35:23])

9. Drawing the Line

• [36:36–38:55]
  • Sayers presses Soave on where, if anywhere, the line should be drawn as to who can remain in public life after maintaining ties with Epstein.
  • Soave resists “pitchfork mobs”:
    • There may be reasonable explanations for interactions—journalistic, familial, etc.—and mass shunning is rarely just.
    • The label “in the Epstein files” is now almost trivial due to the breadth of the document dump, ensnaring thousands.

Notable Quotes

• Robby Soave ([04:35]):
  “I have to admit that perhaps I did not think it through fully…this is also investigative files…not corroborated. They could be crazy people.”

• Freddie Sayers ([09:33]):
  “If you just put this stuff out there, it's going to damage a lot of people in a way that doesn't seem sensible, doesn't seem right.”

• Robby Soave ([13:37]):
  “Now those of us who have questioned this at all...have faced this from...MAGA people...because they thought it would prove...Democratic elites...were complicit in sex crimes with children. And then Democrats latched onto the idea that it would demonstrate Donald Trump was guilty of that. And neither of those ideas...has found a shred of evidence.”

• Freddie Sayers ([11:20]):
  “Just a screen grab of an email...is evidence of guilt. It's literally the dictionary definition of guilt by association.”

• Robby Soave ([35:23]): “At some point… I am willing to believe a conspiracy theory will turn out to be true. I absolutely believe Covid came out of a lab… but you have to show evidence of that. It can't just be that the fringe idea is right every time because the mainstream media is bad.”

Timeline / Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:02 – Episode opening; the “all-encompassing” Epstein story
• 04:35 – Why Soave is uneasy about the document dump
• 06:19 – The privacy principle and Clay Higgins’ warning
• 09:33 – Real-world consequences; misidentification of innocents
• 11:11 – The meaning and importance of privacy
• 13:37 – The rise of hysteria and “guilt by association” culture
• 15:24 – Clinton vs. Trump: Tribalist reaction dynamics
• 18:01 – Morality and post-conviction associations
• 25:10 – The scandal as a vector for moral disgust, not just justice
• 27:47 – Victim testimony and incentives
• 28:57 – Search for sanity and reasonable voices
• 33:08 – Fallout in the UK; expected consequences in the US
• 36:36 – Soave on where he draws the line regarding association
• 38:28 – Casual mention: Even journalists’ names appear in the files

Tone

The episode maintains an urgent yet analytical tone, challenging the hysteria and conspiratorial climate around the Epstein papers, while robustly defending the core democratic values of privacy, evidence, due process, and resistance to mob justice.

Closing Thought

Freddie Sayers and Robby Soave call for skepticism, sanity, and upholding principles even amid outrage, warning of the dangers inherent in sacrificing those principles at the altar of public anger and media spectacle.

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