Podcast Summary: Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Episode: After Sydney, how can Jews feel safe in the world – With Rabbi David Wolpe
Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Yonit Levi (Tel Aviv) & Jonathan Freedland (London)
Guest: Rabbi David Wolpe

Overview

In this emotionally charged and thoughtful episode, Yonit Levi and Jonathan Freedland explore the aftermath of the deadly antisemitic attack in Sydney, considering its personal, communal, and global impact on Jewish feelings of safety. They discuss the seeming new reality of insecurity for Jews around the world, the inadequate responses from institutions, and the challenge of building meaningful allyship. The centerpiece is an expansive interview with Rabbi David Wolpe, who offers historical and spiritual framing for this moment, practical suggestions for response, and a call to both courage and coalition-building. Listener messages from around the Jewish world add visceral testimony to the sense of dislocation and fear many are experiencing. The episode closes by honoring the late Rob Reiner and sharing moments of hope and resilience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A "New Normal" for Jewish Safety

(00:17 - 06:22)

• Sydney Attack's Impact: The hosts compare the Sydney attack to previous antisemitic incidents, expressing a growing sense that attacks on Jewish communities are no longer aberrations but potentially the "new normal".
• Global Insecurity: Both note how, for the first time in modern memory, no place feels reliably safe for Jews—neither Israel nor the Diaspora.
• Personal Anxiety:
  • Yonit: “This is one of these weeks...I kind of picked up the phone to write to you. And what I was going to write was: please stay away from really large events.” (01:45)
  • Jonathan: Shares having “thought twice” about attending large public Hanukkah events. (03:58)
• Frustration with Security Responses: There is "anger that, okay, enough with the reinforcing security. Now we want you to actually address the threat. Let's reduce the threat rather than just increasing the protection against the threat." (05:32, Jonathan)

2. The "Three Dangerous Factors" Threatening Jews

(06:22 - 08:17)

• Violent Jihadism: Active, organized, and incited online; focuses especially on Jews since the Gaza war.
• Rise in Antisemitism: From both the right (Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes) and left, fueling rhetoric that leads to violence.
• Minimization and Denial: “You’re hearing these voices, ‘No, it’s not so dangerous like you think. And there are other minorities that are being targeted’... that kind of mindset has led to the very, very poor security.” (07:25, Yonit)

3. Problematics of Public Protest Slogans

(08:17 - 15:01)

• The Slogan “Globalize the Intifada”:
  • Jonathan questions why marchers insist on this phrase, which “strikes fear into the hearts” of Jews, asking, "Is it that important to you that you're going to hold onto that phrase?" (11:17, Jonathan)
  • Calls for moral self-reflection among protesters rather than immediate legal bans.
• Naivety and Gaslighting:
  • Yonit: “I think anyone who’s lived in Israel during the Second Intifada... feel in their bones what it means to say globalized intifada.” (12:42)
  • Points out how some minimize or dismiss Jewish concerns as overblown.
• Danger of Banning Slogans: Jonathan notes that bans risk casting Jews as enemies of free speech and may not remove the underlying sentiment.

4. Interview: Rabbi David Wolpe on Jewish Insecurity and Strategies for Response

(15:15 - 44:13)

Big Picture Diagnosis

• Era of Insecurity:
  • "It is a time of enormous insecurity and growing fear... for the Diaspora communities, I think this is the first time in the postwar era that they have asked themselves continually: do I belong here? Am I really accepted?" (16:15, Rabbi Wolpe)
  • The taboo against overt antisemitism is “disappearing.”

Advice for Jews in this Moment

• The American Exception—and Its Fraying:

  • America’s unique multicultural identity has protected Jews, but the distinction between “Americans and Jews” is now being revived on the far right.
  • “There is that difference between Americans and Jews... still, by the way, is a fringe of the right, although increasingly, as I said, influential.” (21:11, Wolpe)

• On Responses to Attacks and Indifference:

  • “We have not actually reached out to others as well as we need to... when you say we're scared and we're hurting... they are more likely to help.” (17:52, Wolpe)
  • The Jewish community needs to admit vulnerability to build alliances.

Listener Testimonies & Deep Dislocation

• Daron from Sydney: Frustration no one explicitly acknowledged the attack on Jews.

  • “What’s really hard is that people are still not acknowledging the Jewish experience... and that was an attack on Jews. And that’s really, really hard.” (25:12, Daron)

• Rabbi Wolpe's Explanation:

  • "The generous answer is cowardice... the ungenerous answer is that... antisemitism was nurtured almost from birth... this is deeper, more pervasive and more instinctual... than is comfortable for us to believe.” (25:55, Wolpe)

• Maya from Berlin: Expresses despair: “I feel I don’t have a place anymore... I can’t live in my own country... can’t live anywhere else because Jews are proudly hated.” (28:11, Maya)

Spiritual and Emotional Counsel

• No Place Fully Safe—The End of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”:
  • “Jews always had that sense of somewhere over the rainbow, there is going to be this better place... for a while it was America, and then for a while it was Israel.” (32:15, Wolpe)
• Action Instead of Despair:
  • “If you don’t like the government, rather than despair of the country, you have to persuade other people of the good reasons why you don’t like the government and change it... despair is actually the least productive emotion.” (34:12, Wolpe)

What Is To Be Done? Strategy

• Build Alliances:

  • “If we don’t ask, nobody’s going to take time out of their day to say, ‘Oh by the way, I support the Jews.’” (34:23, Wolpe)

• Indifference as the Greatest Enemy:

  • “The greatest enemy we face now is indifference... what happened to Europe when the Jews were [expelled]? What happened to Spain? What happened to Germany?” (36:18, Wolpe)
  • Hatred of Jews is a poison to all democracy and civilization.

• What should be at the core of Jewish identity now?

  • Jonathan: "Do you see anybody moving... toward making Judaism the center of Jewish identity again, rather than Israel or politics?" (39:13)
  • Wolpe: “A spiritualized peoplehood. I’ve never used that phrase before... but for now I’m going to go with it. In other words, I’m trying to be holy on Unholy.” (41:09)

Hope, Resilience, and the Joseph Story

• Closing Listener Hope from Uruguay: “I need to thank you for giving us hope and information... There will be peace.” (41:28, Listener)
• Rabbi Wolpe’s Final Message:
  • “He [Joseph] falls when he can only hear his own dreams, and he rises when he starts to learn to listen to the dreams of others... maybe if we actually shared our dreams with each other and learned to listen to what it is that the other person yearns for... we would do better." (42:21, Wolpe)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The new thing in the Jewish condition... is the absence even of a place, even at the level of fantasy, that is the safe place.”
  — Jonathan Freedland (02:55)

• “You are standing up where you are and being who you are is not only important for you and for Jews, but right now... it’s important for the world.”
  — Rabbi Wolpe (29:37)

• “I think for the Jews, alliances are the same. If we don’t ask, nobody’s going to take time out of their day to say, oh, by the way, I support the Jews.”
  — Rabbi Wolpe (34:23)

• “Despair is actually the least productive emotion... what you need are people who will both attain and give you a sense of hope.”
  — Rabbi Wolpe (34:12)

• “He [Joseph] falls when he can only hear his own dreams, and he rises when he starts to learn to listen to the dreams of others.”
  — Rabbi Wolpe (42:21)

Listener Experiences & Testimonies

Sydney, Berlin, Uruguay (24:53, 28:11, 41:28)

• Daron (Sydney): Laments the reluctance to name attacks on Jews.
• Maya (Berlin): Feels there is “no place” she belongs, faces graffiti and hatred daily.
• Listener (Uruguay): Despite difficulties, expresses hope for peace.

Cultural Tribute: The Loss of Rob Reiner

(46:05 – 52:33)

• Both hosts pay tribute to the American director, describing his legacy and impact well beyond Hollywood.
• Hadley Freeman's piece cited: "Rob Reiner Deserved a Happily Ever After."
• The narrative around “When Harry Met Sally” and how personal love stories shaped his art.

Chutzpah and Mensch Awards:

• Chutzpah: Donald Trump, for his appallingly insensitive remarks on Rob Reiner’s death. (52:33)
• Mensch: Collective award to the heroes of the Bondi Beach attack—“a community really abandoned and left alone and what happens to that community. It’s a story of heroism above anything we can imagine.” (55:44, Yonit)

Episode’s Closing Note & Song

(57:15)

• Yonit shares a letter and song from Ronnie Kripper, a musician in Boston, who wrote a Jewish prayer for peace, blending diaspora and Israel, as a gesture to “hold both worlds together.”

Episode Structure & Key Timestamps

• 00:17 Introductions and Sydney attack context
• 06:22 Analysis of the threats facing Jews
• 11:17 Debate on protest rhetoric
• 15:15 Rabbi David Wolpe joins for main interview
• 24:53, 28:11, 41:28 Listener messages from Sydney, Berlin, Uruguay
• 44:13 Hosts’ debrief from the Wolpe interview
• 46:05 Tribute to Rob Reiner
• 52:33 Chutzpah and Mensch awards
• 57:15 Closing: Listener’s musical prayer and gratitude

Tone & Language

The conversation is urgent yet careful, deeply empathetic, and multi-layered—reflecting both sorrow and determination. Rabbi Wolpe’s contributions are philosophical, spiritual, and practical, encouraging moral candor, openness, and cross-community allyship without downplaying the seriousness of the peril. The hosts mix anecdote, analysis, and global outlook, serving both as observers and participants in the moment’s anxiety.

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a powerful articulation of contemporary Jewish anxiety, the complexities of allyship and activism, and the enduring possibility for hope and resilience. As Rabbi Wolpe concludes, salvation lies not just in securing one’s own future but in building connections that recognize and honor the dreams and struggles of others.