Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Episode: Netanyahu Wants a Pardon, Hostages Reunite and a Farewell to Tom Stoppard—With Yair Ettinger
Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Yonit Levi (Channel 12 News, Israel), Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, UK)
Guest: Yair Ettinger (Journalist, expert on Haredi/Religious Zionist communities)

Episode Overview

This week, Yonit and Jonathan tackle three major topics:

• Prime Minister Netanyahu’s unprecedented request for a pardon
• The ongoing anguish and rare moments of hope amid Israel’s hostage crisis, featuring a remarkable reunion
• Reflections on the life and legacy of playwright Tom Stoppard

Alongside in-depth analysis from hosts, journalist Yair Ettinger joins to unpack the deep rift in Israeli society over Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) military exemptions—a longstanding divide now supercharged by war and political wrangling.

1. Netanyahu’s Pardon Request: Constitutional Earthquake

[02:13 - 14:56]

The Letter that Shook Israel

• Netanyahu has sent a lengthy letter to President Isaac Herzog, requesting an unconditional end to his corruption trial.
  • Jonathan: "111 pages... addressed to the President... I haven’t done anything wrong, but please pardon me." [02:13]
  • Yonit clarifies it's not a traditional pardon request (which would require contrition), but effectively demands an immediate end to proceedings with no admission of guilt.
  • Quote:
    • Netanyahu: "'Despite my personal interest to conduct the trial and prove my innocence... the public interest dictates otherwise. As part of my public responsibility as Prime Minister to bring reconciliation… ending the trial will help lower the flames…'" [03:00]

Hosts’ Take: Cynicism, Power, and Precedent

• Jonathan (sarcastically):
  "Of course, my own interests are wholly secondary. If it were up to me, I'd happily go to jail for 50 years. But for the country's sake, selflessly, I think we should park this trial that otherwise I'm enjoying." [03:48]
• Yonit walks through history:
  • Plea deals were on the table in 2022 but would have required Netanyahu to leave politics—a lifelong non-starter for him.
  • Since October 7 and with potential international arrest warrants (ICC), Netanyahu "needs" the premiership as protection.
  • Jonathan: "He now needs it to confer a... force field of protection... from a world that is minded to arrest him." [06:02]

The Impossible Bind for Herzog

• President Herzog is in an "impossible" position—any action risks alienating half the country and damaging his own career.
• Legal complexities: past pardons (such as the Bus 300 affair) are poor precedents.
• Political calculations: "If [Herzog] becomes a sort of hate figure for the anti-Netanyahu camp, what political route is there for him?" [13:18]
• Polls show the country is utterly divided along pro/anti-Netanyahu lines—“common sense has gone out the window.” [12:17]

Trump, International Pressure, and Chutzpah

• Trump has loudly advocated for Netanyahu’s pardon, both in person and in writing.
  • "He said, you know, pardon this guy, he's a great guy, he's a wartime leader. He's like me, you should let him off." [13:18]
• Herzog is rumored to be buying time while awaiting legal advice.
• Early Chutzpah Award nominee: Netanyahu’s attempt to frame self-interest as national healing, and politicians’ hypocrisy regarding Trump's “peace plan” (public praise, private rejection).

2. Hostages, Trauma, and Hope: Reunion of Survivors

[16:17 - 20:37]

A Story of Friendship and Survival

• Channel 12 airs an emotional interview between released hostages Alon Ohel (now 24) and his older survivor-mentor Elisha Abi (author of "Hostage").
  • Both were held captive by Hamas for over a year; a deep, almost father-son relationship formed in trauma.
  • Alon Ohel’s words:
    • "I wasn't in prison... prison has a system. I was held captive by men who were insane... I was tied, I was chained like a monkey. I ate like a dog... I looked at myself in the mirror and I saw a corpse... but someone I didn't even know was holding my photo, and I said, I cannot give up." [17:02]
  • Memorable Moment: The emotional impact on the hosts:
    • Yonit: "If one is not moved by these pictures, one needs to check with a cardiologist if one has a heart." [17:58]
• Importance of Solidarity:
  • Jonathan highlights the impact of public demonstrations:
    • "If ever you have that thought—what's the point—just remember that Alon Ohel... got the strength to carry on because of somebody at a demonstration." [19:14]
  • The reuniting of Ohel and Abi is profoundly moving for the hosts and symbolizes rare hope amid tragedy.

3. The Draft Law Crisis: Haredi Exemptions and Israeli Society’s Deepest Rift

[20:37 - 47:08]

With Guest: Yair Ettinger

The (Latest) Draft Bill

• Israel’s decades-old Haredi military exemption faces existential tests:
  • The IDF needs 12,000 new recruits a year; the bill offers only ~3,000 actual conscripts from 80,000 eligible ultra-Orthodox men. [21:32]
  • The rest of society—especially Religious Zionists, who do serve—is furious at the imbalance.
• Ultra-Orthodox political parties are not satisfied (despite the bill’s leniency):
  • Ettinger: "They never said they are for this law... they never said that they are for the game of democracy." [24:59]

What’s Behind Haredi Refusal to Serve?

• Theological vs. Practical Fears:

  • "There is an existential anxiety around the Haredi identity... we have to build something closed around us, so we don't touch reality too much." [28:37]
  • Deep-seated fear that the army might lead young men to secularism—or, as Yonit raises, if their children enter and return unchanged, all excuses disappear.
  • Attempts at outreach (IDF Haredi units) have not bridged the chasm.

• After October 7:

  • Brief hope that the war would rally Haredim to join mainstream society quickly dissipated.
  • "Actually... I think we are in the middle of a big, major clash between the Haredi community and the State of Israel." [33:39]

Politics, Compromise, and the Reluctance to Change

• Veteran Haredi politicians (e.g., Aryeh Deri) know quiet compromise is necessary but are outflanked by hardliners:
  • “Even though you can feel people are uncomfortable with what's going on within the community, there is no voice for that. The old leadership... is still in power.” [34:00]
• Jonathan: “Is there any appetite for compromise?” Yair: “Privately, yes—from political realists. Publicly? Not now.” [36:28]

Religious Zionists: Anger and the Coming Elections

• Religious Zionist community—“the ones carrying the burden” in war—are now the angriest.
  • News scenes: “People who came back from the war, who lost their sons... It’s crazy... the coming elections... this is going to be at the center of the table.” [41:29]
• Smotrich (religious Zionist politician) is out of step with his base and risks political wipeout.

The Future: Integration or Isolation?

• Jonathan: "Is it their destiny to stand apart, or will they eventually join?" [43:20]
  • Ettinger: “If you rely on evolution... it’s not going to happen. Privileges won’t be given up unless there’s revolution, not evolution.” [44:05]
  • The fate of the Haredim is intertwined with Netanyahu’s fate; their alliance is central to Israel’s coalition math.

Hosts’ Reflection

• This rift is not a passing political squabble, but “has really deep roots in the foundation of the state and... in arguments within religious Judaism that are decades, if not centuries old.” [45:44]

4. Farewell to Tom Stoppard: Artist, Jew, Mensch

[47:08 - 54:57]

Stoppard’s Life & Jewishness

• Both hosts express reverence and affection, noting not just his brilliance but his humility.
  • Jonathan’s favorite Stoppard job interview quote:
    • Q: “Who is the current Home Secretary?”
      A: “I said I was interested, not obsessed.” [48:15]
  • Stoppard’s late-life embrace of Jewish identity—his Leopoldstadt play reflects fresh discovery of classic Jewish dilemmas.

Notable Discussion Points

• Jonathan observes:
  • “A lot of arguments in [Leopoldstadt] would be quite familiar to Unholy listeners… it was kind of novel to him, these arguments, because he had not grown up all those decades... in the Jewish world.” [49:29]
• Yonit on meeting Stoppard:
  • “He did not seem, you know, self-involved. He was such a huge talent, but there was nothing about him that would show that to the outside world.” [50:07]
  • “I feel Jewish like, I feel Czech. It’s a part of my biography that I have empathy towards.” [Paraphrased, 51:45]

Stoppard's Profound Impact (Memorable Moment)

• Jonathan reads from a letter in The Times: a breast cancer clinician had a breakthrough understanding after seeing Arcadia, leading to a life-saving change in cancer therapy.
  • “Stoppard never learnt how many lives he saved by writing Arcadia.” [53:34]
• Both reflect:
  • Jonathan: "Art matters... writing a play matters. All this stuff can change the world one life at a time." [54:21]
  • Yonit: "I was wrong. Arcadia wins in points, doesn't it?" [54:46]

Mensch of the Week: Tom Stoppard.

5. Chutzpah and Mensch Awards

[54:57 - 57:56]

• Chutzpah Nominations:
  1. Dublin City Council move to remove Chaim Herzog’s name from a park, coupled with anti-Semitic conspiracy-mongering:
     • Jonathan: "Several members of the council criticized Israel and the 'Zionist lobby'... probably emanated from Israeli intelligence attached to the Israeli Defense Force..." [55:24]
     • Yonit: “I hope you saw my eye roll all the way to Ireland when you read that.” [56:59]
  2. Guinness World Records allegedly refusing Israeli record submissions due to political pressure. [57:05]
• Mensch of the Week: Tom Stoppard (for life, art, and—unbeknownst to him—saving lives through theatre). [54:57]

Key Quotes & Moments

"If one is not moved by these pictures, one needs to check with a cardiologist if one has a heart." – Yonit, on the hostages’ reunion [17:58]

"He now needs it [the premiership] to confer a force field of protection around him from a world that is minded to arrest him." – Jonathan, on Netanyahu’s motives [06:02]

"I was tied, I was chained like a monkey. I ate like a dog. I wasn't even a human. I looked at myself in the mirror and I saw a corpse." – Alon Ohel [17:20]

"We have to build something... so we don't touch reality too much. ...Haredim is quite similar word to the word anxiety." – Yair Ettinger, on Haredi insularity [28:37]

"If you rely on evolution... it's not going to happen." – Yair Ettinger [44:05]

"Art matters... Turning up at a play matters. Writing a play matters. All this stuff can change the world one life at a time." – Jonathan, after reading the Arcadia letter [54:21]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Netanyahu’s Pardon Request: [02:13–14:56]
• Hostage Survivors’ Reunion: [16:17–20:37]
• Draft Law/Haredi Crisis w/ Yair Ettinger: [24:17–47:08]
• Farewell to Tom Stoppard: [47:08–54:57]
• Chutzpah & Mensch Awards: [54:57–57:56]

Tone & Style:
Humorous and sharp, with frequent sarcasm/tender moments, and self-deprecating asides.
Hosts balance nuanced policy analysis ("A constitutional earthquake" [02:13]) with personal, emotional storytelling, underpinned by deep cultural reference points.

Summary in a Sentence:
A profound, witty, and moving episode navigating Israel’s turbulent politics, trauma and solidarity after hostage crises, and the world-changing legacy of Tom Stoppard—underscoring, with both chutzpah and menschlichkeit, the power of institutions, identity, and human resilience.