Unholy: Two Jews on the News — “Q&A with Y&J”
Episode Date: February 17, 2023
Hosts: Yonit Levi (Channel 12 News, Tel Aviv) & Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, London)
Theme: Answering listener questions on Israel’s judicial overhaul, protest movements, and broader societal issues, with forays into sports, Jewish communal concerns, and standout newsmakers.
Episode Overview
This special Q&A episode features Yonit and Jonathan tackling incisive listener questions on Israel’s controversial judicial reforms, the mass protests, prospects for compromise, potential ripple effects, and existential questions for Israelis and the Jewish Diaspora. The show’s sharp, witty, and deeply informed conversation is seasoned with signature banter, football (both kinds!), and awards for chutzpah and menschlichkeit.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Opening Banter: Football and World-Weariness
[00:29–03:44]
- Jonathan recounts his Arsenal fandom heartbreak, reflecting on how disappointments in sports can feel visceral—even for seasoned journalists regularly covering weighty world events.
- “Here are you and me, we talk week after week about really properly bad things happening in the world and yet somehow this gets under the skin. Go figure.” – Jonathan [02:00]
- Both hosts riff on the Jewish connections to North London football rivalries.
- “Spurs like to claim they’re the Jewish club in London... but I think equal number of Jews support Arsenal.” – Jonathan [02:42]
2. Judicial Reform and Mass Protests: Where Things Stand
[03:44–09:19]
- Yonit recap: Massive protests (100,000+ people of all backgrounds) challenge the government’s proposed judicial overhaul, which would dramatically shift Israel’s checks and balances.
- President Herzog’s rare intervention: A call for compromise and a warning of “serious danger to democracy.”
- “If this plan goes through the way it is written, then there is a serious danger to the democracy of the state of Israel.” – Yonit [06:47]
- No compromise yet—government pushing legislation at full speed, opposition and protesters demanding a freeze before talks.
3. Listener Q&A: Deep Dive into the Judicial “Revolution”
Q1: Is Compromise Possible on Judicial Reform?
[10:13–14:39]
- Supermajority (“override clause” requiring more than 61/120 Knesset votes) discussed as a potential path for compromise.
- “Let’s decide about an override clause of 65 or 70... Is that something the opposition would agree to? Maybe.” – Yonit [11:04]
- Only one section of Israeli Basic Laws—election date—currently requires 80 votes.
- Government resistance on political appointments to Judicial Appointments Committee remains a sticking point.
- Referendums? Not likely—no infrastructure and coalition would likely oppose due to unsupportive public opinion.
Q2: Can These Reforms Be Undone?
[15:56–19:37]
- Jonathan: If enacted, new reforms could make it harder for the opposition to win future elections (e.g., control over electoral commission, party banning).
- “The trouble with constitutional changes is, you cannot do them in a sort of ping pong...” – Jonathan [17:04]
- Yonit: Given Israel’s system, a new government could reverse reforms with a bare 61 majority unless a supermajority is required in future compromise.
- High Court may intervene, leading to a constitutional crisis.
Q3: Does Internal Chaos Invite External Threats?
[19:37–23:09]
- Ongoing terror attacks serve as a grim reminder that Israel’s security threats persist.
- “Reality isn’t waiting for the coalition or opposition position to get it together.” – Yonit [20:44]
- While external threats are real, Israel unites quickly for defense; greatest risk is in the West Bank.
Q4: Historical Comparison—Are There Parallels?
[23:09–27:52]
- Jonathan draws parallels with:
- Andrew Jackson’s defiance of the US Supreme Court.
- FDR’s attempted Supreme Court “packing.”
- Authoritarian power grabs in Hungary (Orban) and 20th-century totalitarian regimes.
- “It’s not just at loggerheads with judges... the precedent is not good.” – Jonathan [26:58]
Q5: Should Israelis “on the losing side” consider emigrating?
[28:23–31:12]
- Yonit offers a heartfelt rallying cry:
- “Don’t. This is a moment where you matter. Nations are tested in these moments… It matters to be a citizen of a country, not when it’s easy.” [28:43]
- Jonathan: Diaspora Jews face their own decision—walk away if Israel becomes unrecognizable, or “wrestle with it” to help shape its future.
Q6: Is Netanyahu Orchestrating a Coalition Switch via Judicial Reform?
[33:38–36:28]
- Listener wonders if the reforms are a ploy to bring in centrists and oust ultra-right partners.
- Both hosts doubt it, arguing Netanyahu’s personal legal stakes and coalition dynamics drive policy.
4. Super Bowl Ads, American Religion, and the Jewish Diaspora
[38:25–43:47]
- Unholy’s unique Super Bowl angle: an ad campaign rebranding Jesus (“He Gets Us”).
- Declining Christian (and Jewish religious) affiliation in America:
- 1972: 90% US Christians; 2020: 64%; predicts a minority in 50 years. [40:16–41:24]
- Young Jews—40% of ages 18-29—identify as “Jews of no religion.”
- Hosts propose to discuss in future: how a less Christian, less religious America may reshape Jewish identity and Israel attachment.
5. Awards
[44:08–51:53]
Chutzpah Award Nominees
- Anna Paulina Luna (US Congresswoman): Claimed Jewish heritage, in fact had a grandfather in the Nazi Wehrmacht.
- “This isn’t just your run of the mill chutzpah. This is grand scale. Mega chutzpah.” – Yonit [46:22]
- Dudi Amsalem (Israeli Minister): Berated protesters as a “Rolex-wearing elite”—while sporting a Cartier watch.
- “If you're gonna berate protesters for being rich elitists… maybe don't wear your expensive watch in the same day.” – Yonit [47:49]
Mensch of the Week: Yair Sherki
- Channel 12’s religious affairs correspondent who came out as gay—bravely bridging religious and secular, left and right.
- “I love men and I love God. And this is neither contradictory nor new... I don’t have the strength to be quiet.” – Yair Sherki, quoted by Yonit [48:23]
- Widespread support unified Israelis across the spectrum—"a beautiful moment" in an otherwise divided week.
- “He sounds like the more authentic voice of the religious Zionists in Israel.” – Yonit [48:23]
- “It was a beautiful moment. And that’s why I will give him the Mensch award, because I don’t think anyone comes close this week.” [51:18]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On the gravity of reforms:
- “There is a serious danger to the democracy of the State of Israel.” – Yonit [06:47]
- “The trouble with constitutional changes is, you cannot do them in a sort of ping pong… that's a recipe for instability.” – Jonathan [17:04]
- On solidarity and civic duty:
- “Don’t [leave]. This is a moment where you matter. Nations are tested and people are tested… This is when it matters to be a citizen of a country. Not when it’s easy.” – Yonit [28:43]
- On “mega-chutzpah”:
- “Not only did she say she has a Jewish heritage, which she didn’t, but actually there was a Nazi heritage… This is like mega chutzpah.” – Yonit [46:22]
Important Timestamps
- Judicial Reform & Protests: [03:44–09:19]
- Q&A—Compromise & Referendum: [10:13–14:39]
- Q&A—Reversing Reforms: [15:56–19:37]
- Q&A—Security Risks Amid Chaos: [19:37–23:09]
- Q&A—Historical Parallels: [23:09–27:52]
- Q&A—Emigration & Civic Duty: [28:23–31:12]
- Chutzpah/Mensch Awards: [44:08–51:53]
Tone & Language
Witty, passionate, and emboldened with a sense of mission, both hosts blend journalistic rigor with personal insights and lively, at times irreverent, Jewish humor. They anchor abstract issues in human stories and historical context, making the stakes tangible without hyperbole.
Conclusion
This Q&A episode encapsulates Unholy’s best: forthright analysis, warmth, and a big-tent approach to Jewish life—connecting Israeli current affairs to global Jewish anxieties, and encouraging listeners to engage, critique, and connect, especially in turbulent times.