Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Special Update: Hostages Recovering, Hamas Breaks Rules, and U.S. Involvement

Hosts: Yonit Levi (A), Jonathan Freedland (B)
Date: October 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This special midweek update, hosted by Yonit Levi in Tel Aviv and Jonathan Freedland in London, dives into the evolving situation one week after Israeli hostages return home, the fragility of the current ceasefire with Hamas, and significant U.S. involvement in the ongoing negotiations and enforcement. The conversation also highlights political maneuvering in Israel and upcoming live podcast events, but the main focus remains on the complex and tense dynamics on the ground and internationally.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Hostage Recovery and the Fragile Ceasefire

• Hostage Release & Recovery:
  • The hosts note the “happy part” is the quick recovery and hospital release of former Israeli hostages. Families are finally reunited (02:50).
• Hamas Breaching Ceasefire Terms:
  • Breach of Agreement: Israeli soldiers were killed in the “Yellow Zone,” an area supposed to be clear under ceasefire terms (02:50–03:53).
  • Delayed Body Returns: Hamas slow-walks the return of deceased Israelis’ bodies, missing the 72-hour deadline and causing distress in Israel (04:04).
  • Non-Compliance: Hamas insists it will not disarm, openly violating ceasefire clauses. They have also reportedly begun executing perceived enemies quietly—as “it’s probably not good for their propaganda” (04:04).

“It had to return all of the bodies that it could find... We are beyond the 72 hours. Not all of the bodies have been returned. And you see Hamas doing this very, very slowly.” – Yonit Levi [04:04]

2. U.S. Involvement and Pressure

• American Oversight:
  • The U.S. is a “huge presence,” seen as the real arbiter of the ceasefire and postwar process. Washington urges patience, even when Hamas breaches agreements (05:44).
  • Vice President JD Vance’s Stance: Vance underscores that “there will be hills and valleys in the ceasefire process,” suggesting some Hamas attacks may be unauthorized by leadership and that the organization is fragmented (06:20).

“The signs coming out of Washington is that Washington is giving Hama some, some slack here, some room.” – Jonathan Freedland [05:44]
“When we talk about Hamas, you’re talking about 40 different cells ... many of those cells, as we saw some evidence of, will not [honor the ceasefire].” – Jonathan Freedland, relaying JD Vance [06:54]

• Kushner & Witkoff Role:
  • The Trump administration, particularly Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, are credited as key negotiators. Their intervention after an Israeli strike on Qatar flipped expectations—rather than tanking hostage deals, it accelerated them (08:19–09:59).

“I think to myself, what is needed here right now is some long term planning ... Generally Israelis are not great with the former, and it doesn't seem like the Trump administration is great with the latter.” – Yonit Levi [08:19]

3. Political Narratives and Spin in Israel

• Netanyahu’s Strategy:
  • There is a conscious effort to reframe the war’s image, from renaming the operation (“Iron Swords” to “the war of revival”) to reframing outcomes as successes rather than failures (11:20–12:48).
  • Despite initial fears, even Netanyahu opponents are lauding Trump for forcing Netanyahu’s hand. However, this is paradoxically more about celebrating Trump’s opposition to Netanyahu than support.

“It wasn’t through some grand design or grand plan of Netanyahu’s that this brought the hostages home. … Israelis celebrating… lauding Donald Trump… because he put his hand in front of Netanyahu’s face and said, enough.” – Jonathan Freedland [10:59]

• Contested Narratives:
  • There’s internal controversy about framing and naming the war as it continues: some push for “war of revival” while families of October 7th victims reject this as whitewashing reality (12:02–12:48).

4. International Diplomacy and Regional Shifts

• Saudi-U.S. Talks:
  • Saudi Arabia is reportedly in defense pact discussions with the U.S., similar to Qatar’s arrangements. This may herald moves toward normalization and could be part of Netanyahu’s re-election platform (14:56).
• Disarmament and the Road Ahead:
  • Complete disarmament of Hamas is seen as a long, sequenced process requiring constant U.S. involvement.
  • Diplomats stress the process will take time and must include steps toward a political resolution for Palestinians, not just cherry-pick disarmament (15:31–17:54).

“Using the word disarming is a word that is heard by Hamas as surrender ... if you want that outcome, that's important ... it is very much something which will come about, I think, pretty well at the end of the process.” – Jonathan Freedland [15:31]

5. Upcoming Events and Podcast Community

• Live Show Announcement:
  • The hosts share excitement for their upcoming New York live show, with guests Hillary Clinton, Dr. Karen Yarchmilo, and comedian Alex Edelman. They invite listeners in the “tri-state area” to secure tickets (00:17–01:53; 18:40).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hostage Release:

  “Hostages seem to be recovering quite quickly, most of them already released from the hospital. … That’s a good part. Every other part has been different.” – Yonit Levi [02:50]

• On U.S. Mediation:

  “The sense coming out of Washington is just give them some space. Don’t expect this to all happen straight away. … There is no goodwill, obviously, for Hamas.” – Jonathan Freedland [07:41]

• On Netanhayu and Narrative:

  “Every move he makes, is it designed to play down or erase the grotesque sort of failures of October 7th and instead lead with ... the outcomes which he feels are great successes?” – Jonathan Freedland [14:02]

• Lighter Moment:

  “On this day that we are doing our mid week update, it's also Netanyahu’s birthday and Kim Kardashian. ... Huge historic figures, you know, each in their own genre.” – Yonit Levi [17:54]

Important Timestamps

• 00:17–01:53: Upcoming live show guests; excitement over Alex Edelman and Hillary Clinton.
• 02:33–05:44: Ceasefire details, hostage return, initial breaches by Hamas.
• 05:44–08:19: Fragile ceasefire, U.S. involvement, and Washington’s cautious approach.
• 08:19–10:58: Behind-the-scenes on U.S. and Israeli leadership reaction; coup of the hostage deal.
• 11:20–12:48: Israeli political spin, renaming war, contested national narratives.
• 13:54–14:56: Broader context, lack of a cultural war name, war of narratives.
• 14:56–15:31: Regional diplomacy, Saudi-U.S. pact rumors.
• 15:31–17:54: Complexities of Hamas disarmament, phased approach, American oversight.
• 18:40–19:21: Live show reminders, closing banter.

Tone and Style

The episode is marked by sharp, insightful, and occasionally sardonic banter characteristic of Yonit and Jonathan’s partnership. Even as they address grim topics, their wit and dynamic rapport keep the discussion brisk and accessible—balancing deep policy analysis with wry asides.

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

If you missed the episode, you’ll get a nuanced, real-time dissection of the uncertainties and complexities following the latest ceasefire: from the joys of returned hostages to the grim realities of broken agreements, from the outsized role of U.S. negotiators to the battle for public and political narrative in Israel. Essential listening for anyone wanting clear, informed analysis of an evolving, high-stakes situation.