Unholy: Two Jews on the News — Special Update Episode Title: Israel at War with Iran | With Dr. Suzanne Maloney
Date: June 13, 2025

Overview

This urgent special episode drops mere hours after a monumental turn in Middle East history: Israel's large-scale, targeted airstrikes on Iran's nuclear facilities and top military officials. Hosts Yonit Levi (Tel Aviv) and Jonathan Freedland (London) dissect the operation’s scale and immediate implications. They’re joined by Dr. Suzanne Maloney (Brookings Institution), who provides deep analysis of Iran’s internal dynamics, strategic conundrums, and where the world goes from here. The tone is sober, urgent, and reflective—grappling with an event “the region has not ever seen.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Happened: The Strikes and Their Targets

• Israeli Operation

  • [00:39] Yonit describes Israelis being awakened at 3am by sirens warning of unprecedented Israeli airstrikes just launched against Iran.
  • The operation targeted key Iranian officials, foremost nuclear scientists, military sites—including Natanz (confirmed hit, no radiation leaks) and multiple senior commanders’ homes.
  • [01:15] “This is a large scale operation targeting specifically top officials in the security echelon in Iran, nuclear scientists, also nuclear sites and military sites… If we are doing this alone... what we can do is target the brains of the operation.” — Yonit Levy

• Scale & Precision

  • [02:41] Both hosts marvel at the intelligence precision and technical competence—comparing the operation’s impact to past campaigns against Hezbollah, but on an even larger, deeper scale.

2. Why Now? Israel’s Calculus

• Geopolitical Context

  • [03:15] Jonathan suggests Iran’s “strategic weakness” provided a rare opportunity, as many of Iran’s proxies (Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis) have been severely degraded.
  • Domestic Israeli politics: Netanyahu recently leveraged the threat from Iran to stave off political challenges, citing an ongoing security crisis.
  • Perception of tacit U.S. permission or at least non-interference factored into Israeli timing.

• Israeli Military Perspective

  • [04:46] Yonit relays that Israeli officials believed Iran was “very close to the point of no return” in its nuclear program, leaving Israel no choice but to act, even without U.S. operational backing.

3. The Impact: Decapitating Iran’s Leadership

• Assassinations’ Effect

  • [07:19] Dr. Suzanne Maloney calls the targeted killing of Iran’s military leadership “extraordinary,” noting both symbolic and operational disruption: “Everyone who's left is kind of looking around the room and wondering who might be next, given that some of these individuals were assassinated in their own homes.”
  • Legacy and knowhow: While the loss of key personnel is disruptive, Dr. Maloney cautions that Iran’s nuclear program is deep and broad, not solely dependent on the eliminated individuals.

• Military & Scientific Knowledge

  • [14:09] “This is a program that has three decades under its belt and it has built a significant infrastructure. The loss of key personnel will have some implications, but whether it would actually disable Iran's ability to sustain the program, I would, I don't see evidence of that yet.” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

4. What Comes Next: Iran’s Response

• Possible Avenues of Retaliation

  • Drones and missile attacks: Some launched, many intercepted or prevented ([15:42]).
  • Proxy activity: Iran’s options via proxies are reduced but not eliminated—potential for small-scale terror attacks globally (mention of historic precedents like Buenos Aires, 1994).
  • Nuclear escalation: With conventional options diminished, Dr. Maloney fears Iranian leadership may move closer to a nuclear weapons “breakout.”

• Unique Danger

  • [17:32] “The option of a nuclear weapon unfortunately becomes much more attractive to the Iranian regime as an existential defense.” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

5. The U.S. Role: Coordination or Distance?

• Mixed messages: Official U.S. statements claim the action was unilateral by Israel ([18:30]), but logistical moves (removal of personnel, Centcom alert status) suggest U.S. foreknowledge.
• Dr. Maloney: “They may not have had all of the details... But I think, in either case, it’s almost irrelevant... The Iranians would have presumed American complicity irrespective...” ([19:28])
• Domestic U.S. politics: Trump's remarks after the operation support Israel, muddying the waters on coordination, while Israeli officials claim the U.S. was not only “in on it” but also on a diplomatic ruse meant to distract Iran.

6. Will Regime Change Happen in Iran?

• Both hosts and Dr. Maloney are skeptical. She notes:
  • The regime is deeply entrenched, with no clear opposition or succession path.
  • [24:06] “The idea that we can from without, from external, prompt or precipitate regime change, I tend to be very skeptical about... But we are in a very, very different moment.”

7. Is the World Safer?

• Dr. Maloney is cautious: “[26:06] I hope the world is a safer place. I think we'll wait to see what the Iranian response is… This is a moment in which we’ll see where the Iranian regime is at this point in time, whether they're capable of responding in a way that drives the situation in an even more dangerous direction...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the operation:
  • [01:15] “...this sophisticated Israeli decision to say, look… what we can do is target the brains of the operation.” — Yonit Levy
• On disruption inside Iran:
  • [07:24] “The assassinations of the senior leadership of the military bureaucracy are extraordinary.... And one has to imagine that everyone who's left is kind of looking around the room and wondering who might be next, given that some of these individuals were assassinated in their own homes.” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney
• On Iranian retaliation:
  • [15:42] “My guess is that it would be reasonable to anticipate some small scale terror attacks not just in and around Israel, but also potentially elsewhere in the world...” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney
• On the nuclear risk:
  • [22:27] “I think we are now in a dangerous moment where that is going to be... the temptation to push toward a nuclear weapon, I think will be very great...” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney
• On regime stability:
  • [24:06] “...this is more precarious than anything they've faced since the early days and months of the Iraqi invasion in 1980...”
• On global safety:
  • [26:06] “I hope the world is a safer place. I think we'll wait to see what the Iranian response is...” — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39 – Yonit's on-the-ground account of the Israeli strikes
• 03:15 – Jonathan outlines the “why now” of Israel’s attack
• 06:39 – Introduction of Dr. Suzanne Maloney
• 07:24 – Dr. Maloney on the significance of targeted Iranian officials
• 09:31 – Analysis of impact on Iran’s nuclear infrastructure
• 14:37 – Iranian scientific know-how post-strike
• 15:42 – Possible Iranian retaliation scenarios
• 19:28 – The U.S. role: complicity or plausible deniability?
• 22:27 – Consequences: Will attack push Iran toward a nuclear bomb?
• 24:06 – Prospects (and skepticism) for regime change
• 26:06 – Dr. Maloney’s reflection: Are we safer?

Closing

A succinct episode, focused on one of the most dangerous developments in decades for the Middle East. The hosts and guest navigate the uncertainty and magnitude of the day with gravitas, concern, and clear-eyed analysis. For listeners seeking immediate, authoritative context on this turning point, the episode delivers both sobering facts and nuanced argument—while ending with the understanding that the crisis is far from over.