Podcast Summary: Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Episode: Talking Peace, Making War – with Jake Sullivan

Date: March 26, 2026
Hosts: Yonit Levi (Channel 12, Israel) & Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, UK)
Guest: Jake Sullivan, former US National Security Advisor

Episode Overview

This gripping and urgent episode is set against the backdrop of ongoing hostilities between Iran, Israel, and the United States, with co-host Yonit Levi broadcasting from a Tel Aviv under regular air raid alerts. The main focus is on the new reality of war for Israelis, the shifting strategies and objectives of American foreign policy (especially under Donald Trump), and the challenges of negotiating peace in a time of escalating conflict. The episode features expert insight from Jake Sullivan, former US National Security Advisor, who offers a critical assessment of the war’s rationale, its consequences, and the broader geopolitical picture, including implications for the West and rising antisemitic incidents globally.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Living Under Fire: Personal and Societal Impact in Israel

• Frequent Bombardment: Yonit describes multiple alerts and sirens daily, cluster bombs falling near her home, and the emotional toll on civilians.
  • [03:02] Yonit Levi: "It's kind of midday on Thursday, pretty early morning Washington time. This day has seen really an uptick in the number of sirens and alerts... I have been in two different random shelters in Tel Aviv because I had to go into, there was no time to do anything else."
• Community Resilience: Israelis display remarkable hospitality—even to strangers seeking shelter—underscoring a sense of shared fate.
• Civilian Vulnerability: Unlike some narratives, Iranian missile attacks are openly aimed at Israeli civilian areas, not just military sites.
  • [06:51] Jonathan Freedland: "Every one of these bombs is aimed at civilian targets. There's no pretense that it's aimed at a military site and went astray."
• Shelter Inequality and War Support: A poll reveals a direct correlation between access to private shelters and support for the war — those without shelter are much less supportive.
  • [11:30] Jonathan Freedland: "Support for the war is up to around 73% for those with a shelter; it flips for those without, down to 23%."

2. The Trump Administration’s War Calculus

• Escalation of Military Adventurism: Trump's belief in the quick returns of military force has led to riskier U.S. operations, with initial “successes” emboldening further strikes.
  • [00:35] Jake Sullivan: "Trump has decided that the application of American military power is an intoxicating thing that can generate quick results with relatively little cost... and then the appetite grew with the eating."
• Overpromising & Public Trust: Discrepancy between leaders’ claims (of having eliminated most of Iran's arsenal) and the ongoing reality of attacks undermines public confidence.
• Strategic Ambiguity: U.S. objectives are unclear—regime change, nuclear containment, or missile program neutralization all floated as rationales, but none made explicit or proven achievable.
  • [52:56] Jake Sullivan: "I have yet to hear at least an American official state plainly what the purpose and objective of the war is… so it is hard to know what you're doing if you don't know why you're doing it."

3. The Prospect for Peace, and Risks of Perpetual Conflict

• Negotiation Developments: Trump announces surprise talks with Iran, but details are murky and trust on all sides is low. Pakistan mediates; Israel removes Iranian officials from target lists as gestures.
• Risks of Escalation: Actual success in destroying Iran’s enriched uranium would be significant symbolically for Trump, but operational risks and intelligence limitations render it uncertain.
  • [49:25] Jake Sullivan: "Even if you got all of the 60% enriched uranium, does Iran still have access to some of the LEU, or has all that been destroyed? We don't know the answer."
• Sullivan’s Assessment: He opposes the war, doubting its aims and pointing to the realistic limits on achieving regime change or permanently disabling Iran’s capabilities.
  • [52:56] Jake Sullivan: "I do not believe it was a sound decision to start this war now."

4. The Geopolitical and Internal Political Picture

• Internal Politics: Netanyahu's government is impacted — quick victory in Iran could have triggered snap elections, now off the table due to war’s uncertainty.
• Global Alliances & Skepticism: Arab Gulf states signal both a desire to see Iran further weakened (“finish the job”) and a growing wariness of U.S. reliability—driving them to consider closer ties with China.
  • [64:53] Jake Sullivan: "Both things can be true at once... They're going to diversify and go off to your biggest strategic competitor. Not a great bargain for the United States."
• Chinese Perspective: China sees America as both impressively risk-taking and distractible—a possible lesson relevant to Taiwan.
• European Dilemmas: Allies are reluctant to participate in military escalation, questioning long-term benefits versus risk.

5. Journalism in Wartime: Bearing the Nation's Anxiety

• Role as Trusted Anchor: Yonit reflects on the unique pressure of being the face and voice Israelis look to for news and reassurance during national crisis.
  • [25:41] Jonathan Freedland: "You're that for a whole country... people scrutinize your face: does she look worried? Because if she looks calm, then I'll be calm."
• Emotional Burden: She describes the challenge of staying calm and collected on air while personally affected by the very threats she reports on.
  • [26:39] Yonit Levi: "It's not only giving the information, but giving an emotional underscore... I'm not reporting the news. I'm living it."

6. The Surge in Global Antisemitism

• Worldwide Threats: Attacks on Jewish targets surge globally, many with apparent links to Iran or its proxies, deepening anxiety among diaspora Jews.
  • [32:33] Jonathan Freedland: "There's been a violent attack on either a synagogue or a Jewish school or a Jewish target in all points of the globe, several claimed by groups linked to Iran."
• Loss of Expected Solidarity: Freedland laments the lack of empathy from traditional left/progressive allies, who are now often hostile or at least unsympathetic in the face of Jewish suffering—often conflating criticism of Israel with acceptance of antisemitic violence.
  • [38:34] Jonathan Freedland: "People have got more used to that... the historic movements of allies, they're not really there right now."

7. Sullivan’s Prescriptions and Warnings

• What Should Have Been Done: Sullivan advocates for a long-term diplomatic strategy—securing a nuclear deal and maintaining containment via deterrence, not endless military action.
  • [57:34] Jake Sullivan: "You deal with [the missile program] through effective deterrence... My view is you design an effective deterrence strategy which keeps the threat of force on the table as necessary, but does not immediately move to the military option."
• Danger of 'Mowing the Lawn': Reliance on repeat military strikes (“mowing the lawn”) to suppress Iran guarantees perpetual war, not resolution.
• Lesson for Allies: Joining in the war out of alliance pressure alone is questionable; Europe and others should focus on maintaining stability and open navigation rather than direct military involvement.

Notable Quotes (with Attribution and Timestamps)

• Jake Sullivan on Trump’s Approach:
  "Trump has decided that the application of American military power is an intoxicating thing that can generate quick results with relatively little cost... and then the appetite grew with the eating."
  — [00:35]

• Yonit Levi on Living Under Attack:
  "These are huge bombs that Iran is launching... This is completely wartime. It feels like a war. That is how it is."
  — [03:02]

• Jonathan Freedland on Bombardments:
  "Every one of these bombs is aimed at civilian targets. There's no pretense that it's aimed at a military site and went astray."
  — [06:51]

• Jake Sullivan on Strategic Uncertainty:
  "I have yet to hear at least an American official state plainly what the purpose and objective of the war is... so it is hard to know what you're doing if you don't know why you're doing it."
  — [52:56]

• Yonit Levi on Journalism During Crisis:
  "I'm not reporting the news. I'm living it. Everything I'm talking about is happening to me. My children and I are in a safe room or in a shelter."
  — [26:39]

• Jonathan Freedland on Lost Solidarity:
  "People have got more used to that... the historic movements of allies, they're not really there right now because they just can't see past their anger at Israel."
  — [38:34]

Important Timestamps for Segments

• Life under wartime in Israel: 01:45–14:00
• Trump and the volatile US strategy: 00:35, 45:00–48:00
• Debating the war's purpose and prospects: 52:56–57:34
• Antisemitism global surge: 32:33–42:30
• Jake Sullivan’s take on policy and alternatives: 57:34–61:13
• China and Geopolitical repercussions: 67:20–69:46
• Journalism and emotional burden: 25:30–31:25

Memorable Moments

• Yonit has to interrupt the recording multiple times due to real air raid alerts—giving listeners a visceral sense of life under fire in Israel.
  • [29:20] Yonit Levi: "This is the preliminary alert... we need to go to a shelter, which we will do and then come back..."
• Jake Sullivan candidly admits the policy failures, the impossibility of regime change, and the “perpetual war” trap.
• Deeply personal account from Yonit on the emotional toll of journalism under threat, and the blending of professional and personal vulnerability on air.
• Freedland’s lament about the global Jewish experience—feeling abandoned by erstwhile progressive allies in the face of rising violence.

Awards

• Chutzpah of the Week: Chris Parry, Reform UK mayoral candidate—“slagging off” volunteer Jewish security and stepping down after controversial remarks. [76:26]
• Mensch of the Week: King Charles III, for accepting the role of patron of the UK’s Community Security Trust (CST) and his longstanding support for the Jewish community. [77:58]

Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its raw immediacy—broadcast as Israel is under bombardment—and the thoughtful depth of its political and strategic analysis. Jake Sullivan’s appearance brings authoritative insight into the logic (and illogic) of American and Israeli decisions, while the hosts’ discussions underscore the intimate fusion of policy, politics, and personal survival in today’s Jewish and Israeli experience. The conversation is both a vital primer for understanding the current Middle East crisis and a moving testament to journalism under fire, with wider implications for the global Jewish community.

For listeners seeking a comprehensive understanding of the convergence of war, diplomacy, and daily life in Israel—with a candid insider’s view from Washington—this is an episode not to be missed.