Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Episode: The Battle Among Republicans over Jews and Israel — with J. Oliver Conroy
Release Date: December 12, 2025

Main Theme

This episode explores the evolving attitudes toward Jews and Israel within the American Republican Party, focusing particularly on the rise of antisemitic rhetoric on the right, generational shifts, and the use of Israel as a wedge issue. Hosts Yonit Levi (Channel 12, Israel) and Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian) welcome journalist J. Oliver Conroy to dissect the resurgence of explicitly antisemitic figures like Nick Fuentes, their growing influence, and what it signals for the Republican party and global Jewish life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eurovision Boycotts and Israel in the Cultural Spotlight (09:00–19:30)

• Growing Boycott: Eurovision song contest faces a boycott from five countries (Iceland, Spain, Ireland, Slovenia, Netherlands) over Israel’s continued participation post-ceasefire.
  • “It's hard to think of a bigger stage it’s had than this. The cultural boycott of Israel is now reaching a mass audience.” (A, 10:25)
• Complexity of Boycotts: Hosts discuss unintended consequences of cultural boycotts, which often harm Israeli liberals and anti-war voices more than the establishment.
  • “The people they end up boycotting… so often ends up punishing the very people who should be seen as allies of those who want to see change in Israel.” (A, 13:00)
• Public Reaction: Israeli Eurovision success is noted and juxtaposed with new EBU rules attempting to limit “orchestrated” voting by governments/social media, partly in response to Israeli campaigns.

2. Kibbutz Berry’s Post-October 7 Decision: Remember or Rebuild? (19:30–24:00)

• Kibbutz Decision: Berry to demolish all destroyed homes but one, which will stand as a shrine/memorial following October 7 attacks.
  • “We don’t want to live in Auschwitz” — Berry commander (B, 20:00)
• Tensions and Healing: The emotional and political challenge of balancing remembrance with moving forward, and strained relations between affected communities and the Israeli government.

3. Domestic Israeli Politics: Coalition Tensions and Netanyahu’s Disconnection (24:07–31:00)

• Bereaved Families & the PM: Families confront Netanyahu in court demanding a commission of inquiry; ongoing chasm between PM and communities harmed on October 7.
  • “There’s a real chasm… It took 18 months before Netanyahu even visited some kibbutzim.” (A, 24:36)
• Legislative Blitz: Ultra-Orthodox parties return to support government after progress on a draft bill exempting their youth from military service, prompting a legislative flurry focused on media and judiciary control in anticipation of likely early elections.
• Filtered Reality: Netanyahu increasingly insulated, avoiding unscripted public interaction, and relying heavily on pre-recorded messages and social media.

4. Main Interview: J. Oliver Conroy on the Republican Right, Antisemitism, and Israel

(31:45–59:03)

a) Who is Nick Fuentes? (32:15–34:30)

• Profile: 27-year-old white nationalist streaming a nightly far-right show; hundreds of thousands of (mainly young, online) followers.
• Method: Uses antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment to drive wedges within the American right.
  • “He uses Israel and antisemitism as kind of wedges to try to sort of drive wedges between parts of the right and force more mainstream conservatives to sort of choose a position.” — J. Oliver Conroy (C, 34:01)
• Mainstreaming Hatred: Increasingly given platforms by media figures once considered mainstream, notably Glenn Greenwald and Tucker Carlson.

b) Antisemitism as Central Doctrine (35:54–37:39)

• Centrality of Antisemitism: For Fuentes, Jews are not one among many disliked groups — they are central to the white nationalist worldview.
  • “Jews are kind of the central unifying theme, the group he talks about more than any other.” — (C, 37:36)
• Holocaust Denial: Fuentes employs chilling, smirking Holocaust denial rhetoric.

c) The Generational Realignment on the Right (38:24–42:45)

• Evangelicals vs. Populists: Traditional, overwhelmingly pro-Israel Christian Zionists (boomer evangelicals/neocons) are being supplanted and even mocked by younger, online, populist right-wingers.
  • “The Christian Zionists… are very much out of the mainstream. They may be in the majority for the time being, but in some ways they’re kind of dinosaurs.” — (C, 39:23)
• Mirror to the Left: Younger generations in both Republican and Democratic parties are less supportive of Israel. Populists view Christian Zionism “as a bizarre and embarrassingly dated tick of their boomer parents.” (A, 40:15)
• Motivations Varied: Some are motivated by isolationism, some by antisemitism, some (right and left) by concern for Palestinians; for many younger right-wingers, “conservative” is a dirty word — “populist” or “right-wing” preferred.

d) Tucker Carlson Interview (43:12–48:44)

• Breakthrough Moment: Carlson’s extended, friendly interview with Fuentes in late October seen as “a meteor” hitting conservative politics.
  • “It brought to the fore all of these issues… generational tensions, the populists vs conservatives, pro-Israel vs ‘restrainers,’ the central question about antisemitism…” — (C, 44:35)
• Carlson’s Position: Repeatedly, vocally critical of the US-Israel relationship; likened by Conroy to Trump for ability to survive controversy and set the agenda.
• Institutional Response: Mainstream right-wing institutions are afraid to criticize Carlson, signaling his massive influence.

e) Is the Party Following Fuentes and Carlson's Lead? (48:44–51:29)

• Influence on Politicians: JD Vance (Trump's VP pick) widely seen as potential heir to this new, more isolationist, anti-Israel right, though evidence is still speculative.
• A Party in Flux: “For many on the new right… J.D. Vance [is] the more ideologically coherent, more disciplined version of Trumpism. They hope he’ll be more skeptical of the US relationship with Israel and Ukraine.” — (C, 52:40)

f) Institutional Realignment (53:17–56:11)

• Heritage Foundation: Now explicitly defending the legitimacy of skepticism toward Israel within mainstream conservatism post-Carlson/Fuentes interview.
  • “It sparked a huge ideological civil war inside the Heritage Foundation, which… later encompassed more and more of the right.” — (C, 55:30)
• Normalization: Refusing to ostracize Carlson signals a possible mainstreaming of language and ideas once regarded as fringe.

g) Trump’s Position (56:11–58:54)

• Transactional Approach: Trump regarded as personally pro-Israel but unpredictable, transactional, and sensitive to the winds of party opinion.
  • “The problem with depending on Trump is that he’s flaky, transactional… he can be your best friend one week and your worst enemy the next.” — (C, 57:08)
• Uncertain Future: The generational and ideological direction of the party suggests his style of “pro-Israel” politics may not be sustainable.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Boycotts Post-Ceasefire:
  “It raises the really interesting question of when will this ever end? …Is this going to be a permanent retrospective boycott?” — Jonathan Freedland (A, 14:45)

• On Antisemitism’s Political Future:
  “Day to day, the threat to synagogues is jihadist violence… but the long-term thing that is really worrying them is this, because if the American Republican Party realigns to be anti-Israel… because they think the Jews are the root problem… that’s really serious.” — Freedland, (A, 61:26)

• On generational trend:
  “Israel is not cool for the younger generation… When you add to that the generational thing, that together in the mix is, is really worrying.” — Yonit Levi (B, 60:23)

• On Nick Fuentes:
  “This is a chillingly racist anti-Semite, and he embraces that term… He says ‘Adolf Hitler is really effing cool.’ This is a frightening figure.” — Freedland, (A, 61:36)

Important Timestamps

• 09:40 — Eurovision boycott context and Israeli response
• 19:33 — Kibbutz Berry memorialization debate
• 24:36 — Netanyahu and kibbutz communities post-October 7th
• 31:45 — Interview with J. Oliver Conroy begins
• 34:01 — Fuentes' use of antisemitism as a wedge
• 39:23 — The fading influence of Christian Zionists/boomer neocons
• 43:12 — Tucker Carlson’s interview with Nick Fuentes
• 48:44 — Influence on Vance/party leadership
• 53:17 — Heritage Foundation refuses to denounce Carlson
• 57:08 — Trump as unpredictable ally to Israel/Jewish Americans

Episode Tone & Style

• The conversation is sharp, sometimes playful (especially in opening banter), but turns somber and even urgent when discussing both antisemitic currents and intra-Jewish communal tensions.
• The hosts blend journalistic detachment with a clear sense of their own lived stakes in the subject, avoiding “bothsidesism” but probing nuances and ambiguities at every turn.

For Further Listening

• Dr. Karen Yara Chimillo on anti-Semitism at Columbia — referenced as a valuable companion interview for context about campus climates and Jewish student experience.
• Previous episode on “War Therapy” — relates to the ongoing “Listeners Therapy” initiative for Israeli/Gaza-related family/PTSD conflict resolution.

Summary

This episode reveals a Republican Party in tumult over its stance on Jews and Israel, driven by the rise of younger, less Israel-centric, more openly antisemitic populist factions and the emboldening of figures like Nick Fuentes through mainstream platforms provided by the likes of Tucker Carlson. Old alliances—such as the reliance on the Christian right—can no longer be assumed. Jewish listeners, Israelis, and anyone concerned with the health of pluralistic Western democracy are urged to take the threat seriously, with the chilling normalization of Holocaust denial and explicit antisemitism highlighted as pressing, not hypothetical, dangers.