Unholy: Two Jews on the News – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Trump vs. the World, Protests in Iran and the Draft Bill – with Amos Hochstein
Release Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts: Yonit Levi (Channel 12 News, Israel) & Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, UK)
Main Guest: Amos Hochstein (Former Biden White House special envoy, broker of Israeli-Lebanese ceasefire)

Overview

This episode dissects the rapidly changing world order in 2026, centering on Donald Trump’s bold foreign interventions, from Venezuela to Greenland, and their implications for global norms, international law, and Israeli politics. The hosts are joined by Amos Hochstein, whose insider diplomatic experience provides vital context on Trump’s expansionism, the collapse of international restraints, the new realities for Iran and Venezuela, and the deep divides within Israeli society over the controversial military draft bill.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s “No Rules” Foreign Policy and a New World Order

• The show opens with a lively discussion about America’s unprecedented intervention in Venezuela and Europe’s muted response.
• Trump’s style: Trump acts without the traditional pretext or subterfuge—for oil, for power, with little international consultation.
  • “It is amazing how he breaks through all the previous charade… and speaks as America’s most severe critics have spoken about America for 50, 60 years. He then articulates that; he’s like a sort of their nightmare come true.” —Jonathan (06:06)
  • Trump’s approach compared to the past: No lengthy lying, no UN process; simply open intent and power politics.
• Consequences for US and international norms: “America does whatever it wants; the only restraint is if it lacks the firepower,” says Jonathan (25:07).
  • “He’s running the board because there is no board. Europe’s pronouncements… is we are deeply concerned and may even have a meeting about it… Europe has zero response.” —Amos Hochstein (00:00 and repeated in main interview 27:06)

Timestamps:

• Trump’s intervention in Venezuela: 04:40 — 09:45
• Analysis of “new rules” era: 21:49 — 29:33

2. Fallout and Precedents—Venezuela, Iran, and International Law

• Venezuela: Trump ousts Maduro, promises oil, and admits openly to aims, waving away legal or diplomatic niceties.
  • “No euphemism. Who’s going to run it? We are… It’s about the oil.” —Jonathan (06:06)
  • Amos notes the operation’s legal complications, that the “real plan” keeps shifting (30:04).
  • Amos explains why American oil companies will hesitate, the logistical and political headaches, and how none of it is as simple as Trump claims.
• Iran: Venezuelan regime change is seen in Israel as a signal to Iran and Hezbollah, with Trump threatening Tehran while officials sport “Make Iran Great Again” hats.
• International law and norms: Amos is skeptical it ever truly constrained the great powers. International law after WWII was wielded by a select few but rarely over great powers.
  • “International law was a concept that was favored… by a relatively small number of countries, implemented by an even smaller set of countries… It applied more to rogue states, a mechanism by which to try rogue states.” —Amos (25:07)
• Europe’s absence: No forceful European voice remains; leaders are too embattled domestically to restrain Trump.

Timestamps:

• Venezuelan “real plan” shifting: 30:04 — 33:06
• International law discussion: 25:07 — 29:33
• Iran implications: 37:00 — 41:24

3. Israel’s Political Drama: Draft Bill and Election Year

• Draft bill controversy: Netanyahu’s coalition seeks a law effectively exempting most ultra-Orthodox (Haredim) from military service; the language is seen as so watered down it essentially continues the status quo (16:04).
  • Internal splits: Even among Haredim, some say any sanctions are intolerable. Violent anti-draft protests are rising, with tragic incidents (protesters killed).
  • Netanyahu’s coalition is at risk—if he doesn’t pass the bill and the budget by March, the government could fall.
  • Opposition leader Naftali Bennett proposes rewarding those who serve, while left-wing activists are moving into formal politics.
• Wider implication: The draft is a wedge issue not only across left/right lines but also within the right and Netanyahu’s base, risking coalition stability (19:12).
• Democratic opposition: Labor has merged with protest movement figures, expanding its base.

Timestamps:

• Draft bill and politics: 16:04 — 21:27

4. Israeli Strategy, Regional Options, and International Isolation

• Choice for Israel: Hochstein notes Israel must decide what kind of country it wants to be (Hungarian-style illiberal democracy or a traditional one).
  • “Israelis have to make a decision what kind of country they want to be… When you have an answer to that, you can answer if it’s good for Israel or not.” —Amos (29:33)
• Normalization with the Arab world: Any chance for integration, especially with Saudi Arabia, hinges on moving toward a Palestinian state. No candidate offers that now.
  • “If you don’t have that, there’s no normalization with Saudi Arabia and no reintegration into the world community anywhere… Trump’s presence is masking the massive deterioration in their place in the world…” —Amos (53:03)
• Dilemmas for the next government: After Bibi, international isolation looms unless there’s a real change in policy toward Palestinians and Hamas.

Timestamps:

• Israel’s crossroads: 52:21 — 55:01

5. Lebanon, Gaza, and the Fraught Ceasefire

• Amos explains the layered, precarious ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, and the fragility of the situation with Hezbollah.
  • Phase two of ceasefire (disarmament, roadmap to statehood) is more a rhetorical device than political reality: “Phase two didn’t exist when phase one was announced.” (45:47)
• Lebanon: Amos warns that Israel is not leveraging the best government they've ever had in Lebanon. Instead of “let me bomb them,” they should work with the US and Europe to secure the border peacefully.
• Gaza: Any “end” to the conflict is illusory—without deeper solutions, it’s just a pause before the next round.
  • “…if you don’t get to phase two, if you don’t get to phase three… all you’re doing is reigniting the powder keg… It’s just a pause as we wait for the next round.” —Amos (52:21)

Timestamps:

• Gaza and Lebanon segment: 44:25 — 62:17

6. Protests in Iran: Hype vs. Reality

• Scale of protests: Despite visible courage, protests are not as broad or large as the 2022 women's movement. The regime’s security apparatus remains largely loyal, and the Iranian government’s forceful response remains limited.
  • “I don’t think they’re that serious. The Israelis are, from a propaganda perspective, making them bigger than they are… On Friday—a mass protest day—there were ten times more people at a soccer stadium in Tehran than in the streets across the country.” —Amos (37:50)
  • Foreign support (from US or Israel) may be counter-productive for the protestors’ legitimacy on the Iranian street.

Timestamps:

• Protests in Iran: 13:13 — 15:16, 37:50 — 44:25

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “He’s running the board because there is no board. Europe has zero response.”
  —Amos Hochstein (00:00, 27:06)
• “It is amazing how he breaks through all the previous charade… and speaks as America’s most severe critics have spoken.”
  —Jonathan (06:06)
• “International law was a concept…favored by a relatively small number of countries… It applied more to rogue states.”
  —Amos (25:07)
• “You want to mow the lawn every six months? We’re not in for that.”
  —Amos, on repeated military operations in the region (55:01)
• “The difference between Trump and Biden…Biden had a lot of support in Europe…When Trump does it…the recognition of the Palestinian state by France and the UK…was an expression of, ‘I can’t fight him…but on this, I can do something.’ So, I’m going to go after Israel.”
  —Amos (53:03)
• “Stop trying to get your friends to send soldiers to Gaza. That’s the best way for you to become not friends.”
  —Amos (45:47)
• “If you don’t get to phase two…all you’re doing is reigniting the powder keg…and it’s not boiling now, but it will be eventually. The West Bank is getting to the boiling point.”
  —Amos (52:21)

Notable Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |-------------------------------------------|---------------| | Trump & World Order Discussion | 04:40–09:45 | | Draft Bill / Israeli Politics | 16:04–21:27 | | International Law / Leadership Vacancy | 25:07–29:33 | | Venezuela—Detailed Analysis | 30:04–33:06 | | Implications for Iran | 37:00–41:24 | | Support for Iranian Protests | 41:24–44:25 | | Gaza & Lebanon Ceasefire | 44:25–62:17 | | Israel’s Strategic Choices | 52:21–55:01 |

Closing Awards & Stories

Chutzpah of the Week: Rabbi Menachem Zvi Berlin for extreme anti-Israel rhetoric (66:27).
Mensch of the Week: Rabbi Mendel Mintz, who raised $2.5 million to build a children’s library in memory of his late wife, showing positive community impact (67:22).
Both honorees are from the ultra-Orthodox world, highlighting its internal diversity.

Conclusion: Episode Tone & Takeaway

Unholy combines razor-sharp analysis, vivid examples, and deeply informed guests to explore how the new world order is both exposing and remaking old assumptions—from global power politics to Israel’s identity crisis and the authenticity of popular protest. This episode pulses with the urgency of a changed era—“the board is empty”—and points to the fierce dilemmas Jewish and global communities face in 2026.