Podcast Summary: Unholy: Two Jews on the News

Episode Title: US weighs its options on Iran, Israel waits – with Suzanne Maloney
Date: January 15, 2026
Hosts: Yonit Levy (Channel 12, Israel), Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, UK)
Guest: Dr. Suzanne Maloney (Brookings Institution, Iran expert)

Overview

This episode is set amid extraordinary turmoil in Iran: mass protests, brutal government crackdown, and uncertainty over possible American intervention. Hosts Yonit Levy and Jonathan Freedland are joined by Dr. Suzanne Maloney, a leading expert on Iranian politics, to examine whether the Iranian regime is facing its end, how the US might respond, what it means for Israel, and the global ripple effects. The show also touches on recent diaspora controversies, dispenses their weekly "chutzpah" and "mensch" awards, and celebrates the podcast's five-year anniversary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Brutal Crackdown in Iran

(02:33 – 04:25)

• Recent mass protests in Iran have been met with state violence on a scale shocking even to seasoned observers.
• Iranian opposition reports over 12,000 killed; some speculate up to 20,000. Morgues are overflowing.
• Quote (02:33):

  "This is a regime killing its own people in cruelty that I think even all that we know about this regime has surprised many." — Yonit Levy

• Government cut off internet access, facilitating a massacre mostly hidden from global view.
• Global apathy is noted:
  Quote (03:22):

  "Whereas Free Palestine is very, very popular, it doesn’t seem like the hashtag Free Iran is." — Yonit Levy

2. Confusion and Anxiety over Trump’s Response

(04:25 – 07:37)

• The world is on edge, especially Israel, waiting for President Trump’s decision on military intervention.
• Mixed signals: US military assets move into place, personnel evacuate; simultaneously, leaks suggest Trump has reassured Iran there’ll be no attack.
• The uncertainty heightens Israeli anxiety due to fears of Iranian retaliation if the US strikes — the “Great Satan, little Satan” logic.

3. Dr. Suzanne Maloney on Regime Stability

(09:16 – 13:57)

• Dr. Maloney sees signs of regime unraveling, but not imminent collapse.
  Quote (09:16):

  "We are seeing the unraveling of the regime ... but I don’t think we are yet seeing the end of the regime. ... Street demonstrations, as widespread and vociferous as they were, are never going to be enough to take down this regime. It’s simply too well entrenched." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

• Protests lack cohesive organization and leadership to pose an existential threat.
• The suppression is severe and effective, in part due to the communication blackout.
• Urges world leaders, especially Europeans, not to return to “business as usual” with Iran after such brutality.

4. Options for US and International Response

(13:57 – 21:56)

• Discussion of possible US actions: from cyber attacks to targeted strikes on IRGC or even leadership decapitation (e.g., Khamenei).
• Trump likes unpredictability, and his administration has previously made unorthodox military choices.
• Danger of “credibility gap” if US blusters and fails to act (Syria “red line” analogy).
  Quote (14:49):

  "When the American president uses social media to promise that the United States is locked and loaded ... if we don't act in some way, we will have not just let down the people on the streets ... we will have created a kind of Obama red line situation..." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

• Maloney warns no quick military fix exists; regime is too deeply entrenched. Instead, emphasizes the need for sustained support for Iranian opposition, possible cyber measures, and efforts to encourage splits within security forces.

5. Would US or Israeli Military Action Help?

(21:46 – 25:39)

• Maloney argues splintering Iran’s security apparatus is key to regime change.
• Past episodes (e.g., 2009, 2019) always stopped short of “crossing over.”
  Quote (21:56):

  "I never imagined that Iranians would fire on their own people at the level and intensity that we believe to be the case over the course, particularly of the past week." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

• She doubts eliminating top leaders would meaningfully change regime behavior, perhaps simply replacing faces at the apex.

6. Risks of Iranian Retaliation and Israel’s Vulnerability

(25:12 – 28:57)

• Israel anxiously waits, fearing it could become target of Iranian anger if US acts.
• Iran’s leaders see the crisis as existential; could escalate far beyond careful tit-for-tat.
• Maloney: Iran unlikely to genuinely rally domestic support by striking Israel, but may use it to demonstrate resistance and deter further attacks, also to entice regional diplomacy.

7. Iran’s Military Capabilities Post-June War (2025)

(28:57 – 30:33)

• Iran’s ballistic missile and nuclear programs have been set back—but both are already being rebuilt.
• The moment of regime weakness internally fueled the current round of protests.

8. Possibility of Diplomacy Despite Saber-Rattling

(30:33 – 33:00)

• Trump’s unpredictability: Despite war talk, might seize opportunity for a diplomatic deal with a weakened Iran.
  Quote (31:23):

  "Trump being Trump, he would walk away from those commitments and instead actually seal a deal at a moment of maximum vulnerability." — Jonathan Freedland

• Maloney: Even if the US secures a “deal” with leadership changes, without systemic change, it would likely be hollow.

9. Who Could Lead Iran After the Regime?

(33:00 – 38:26)

• Discussion on Reza Pahlavi (Shah’s son): appeals to nostalgia, diaspora, and some inside Iran, but “not well positioned” to lead a real transition.
  Quote (33:31):

  "Reza Pahlavi has an important role to play ... but after 47 years outside the country, the idea that he could do what Ayatollah Khomeini did ... seems a little bit hard to imagine." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney

• No obvious internal Gorbachev-type reformer; regime opponents are exiled, silenced, or tightly watched.

Additional Segments: Global Jewish Affairs & Diaspora Stories

British Anti-Semitism and the Limits of AI

(40:20 – 46:58)

• The UK: Maccabi Tel Aviv football fans banned from a match in Birmingham, with police justifying it on fabricated evidence generated by Microsoft Copilot AI.
  Quote (45:09):

  "He had to admit that that was erroneous. Why? Because there had never been a game with West Ham. ... The AI had hallucinated a bogus fictitious game..." — Jonathan Freedland

• The episode exposes police failings and digital misinformation.

Australia: Adelaide Writers Festival Cancelled

(47:34 – 49:30)

• Festival was cancelled after disinviting a Palestinian-Australian speaker following community outcry and mass speaker walkouts over free speech.

Awards: Chutzpah and Mensch of the Week

Chutzpah

• Elon Musk/Grok AI: For allowing Grok AI to manipulate images into sexualized or anti-Semitic contexts (e.g., Auschwitz references), drawing condemnation.
  Quote (51:40):

  "It’s repellent and disgusting and Elon Musk deserves to be called out for it." — Jonathan Freedland

• Channel 14 Correspondent: For unsubstantiated claims that Israel is arming Iranian protesters, which Iranian authorities then used propagandistically.

Mensch

• Deni Avdija: Israeli NBA star praised for team-first attitude and ground-breaking achievements.
• Iranian Protestors: Collective recognition for extraordinary bravery in the face of lethal repression.

Anniversary Reflections: Five Years of Unholy

(54:17 – 65:40)

• The hosts reminisce on the show's origins, growth, and importance, especially after October 7, 2023, and during Israel’s judicial overhaul.
• They discuss the challenge and necessity of dialogue between Israeli and diaspora Jews, reflecting on their partnership’s strengths through turbulent times. Quote (58:53):

  "The process was forcing us to do what a lot of people did actually actively avoid, which was to stare at what was a really painful unfolding reality and to really go deep into it. And we, unlike most people, we never got a week off." — Jonathan Freedland

• Advice for Conversation:

  "Keep talking however hard it is ... remember who you’re talking to and what they’re going through and why that choice is important." — Yonit Levy (61:50)

• Ending on gratitude for their listeners and the unique forum their conversation provides.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We are seeing the unraveling of the regime ... but I don’t think we are yet seeing the end of the regime." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney (09:16)
• "It should be completely intolerable for any civilized country to continue to do business as usual with Iran." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney (12:32)
• "I never imagined that Iranians would fire on their own people at the level and intensity that we believe to be the case." — Dr. Suzanne Maloney (21:56)
• On AI-generated police evidence: "The AI had hallucinated a bogus fictitious game between Maccabi Tel Aviv and West Ham." — Jonathan Freedland (45:09)
• "Keep talking however hard it is ... remember who you’re talking to and what they’re going through and why that choice is important." — Yonit Levy (61:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:33 – Protest death toll, regime brutality
• 04:25 – Israeli and global anxieties over Trump's response
• 09:16 – Dr. Suzanne Maloney: regime unraveling vs. regime end
• 14:49 – US options, credibility issues
• 21:56 – Importance of splintering Iranian security forces
• 25:12 – Israel's vulnerability to Iranian retaliation
• 28:57 – Iran's military capabilities post-June War
• 31:23 – Possibility of sudden Trump deal with Iran
• 33:31 – Discussion on Reza Pahlavi's leadership prospects
• 40:20 – UK: AI hallucination leads to football scandal
• 47:34 – Australia: Writers’ festival cancellation
• 51:40 – Chutzpah: AI misuse; misinformation on Israel and Iran
• 54:17 – Five years of Unholy: reflections and lessons

Conclusion

This episode offers a bracing, insider view into one of the most perilous moments for Iran’s regime in decades, with informed discussion of US options, Israeli fears, and the global Jewish context. Dr. Suzanne Maloney’s insights frame the events as the beginning of a prolonged unraveling—and a test of Western resolve. The hosts’ signature blend of sharp analysis, wit, and candor underlines not only the stakes for Iran, Israel, and the world, but the enduring need for honest dialogue within the Jewish community.