Eunice Kennedy’s Lasting Legacy

Summary

United States of Kennedy: "Eunice Kennedy’s Lasting Legacy"

Episode Release Date: March 23, 2026
Hosts: George Civeris & Julia Claire
Guest: Eileen McNamara (Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, author of Eunice: The Kennedy Who Changed the World)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of United States of Kennedy spotlights Eunice Kennedy Shriver, a lesser-known but extraordinarily impactful Kennedy sibling. Often overshadowed by her famous brothers, Eunice’s work—particularly in advancing civil rights for those with intellectual disabilities—has revolutionized American social policy and shaped global perceptions. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Eileen McNamara joins George and Julia to discuss Eunice’s colorful life, her uniquely forceful character, and her overlooked contributions that transcend the Special Olympics.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Historical Erasure and Why Eunice Matters

• Underrated Legacy: Despite establishing the Special Olympics, Eunice’s achievements are often overlooked—even her Wikipedia page remains scant compared to her brothers' profiles.

  “She created a civil rights movement for people with disabilities that has had more impact... than anything that the Kennedy men did in their lifetimes.” – Eileen McNamara [06:19]

• Kennedy Gender Divide: Her under-recognition is attributed to being a Kennedy woman in a patriarchal family more focused on their sons' political ambitions.

  “Joe Kennedy was a man of his era... his daughters were basically decorative accessories to their brothers’ political careers. And of all the girls, Eunice was not buying it.” – Eileen McNamara [06:19]

Eunice’s Personality & Motivation

• Driven by Rage and Justice: Contrary to the “kind heiress” trope, Eunice’s passion stemmed from personal anger and injustice—especially her sister Rosemary’s treatment.

  “She did not come into her life’s work out of this feeling of noblesse oblige. She came to it out of her rage about how her sister was treated.” – Eileen McNamara [06:19]

• Relentless Force: Known for her demanding nature, irascibility, and high expectations, she routinely startled even seasoned politicians.

  “She was hell on wheels. That’s why the Special Olympics, although it’s an enormous accomplishment, is the least of it.” – Eileen McNamara [11:15]

• Memorable Anecdote:

  “When the planes hit the Pentagon on 9/11... she said, ‘Don’t send anybody home. We have work to do. The work doesn’t stop just because those planes hit the towers and hit the Pentagon.’” [11:15]

Transforming the Kennedy Foundation

• From Memorial to Powerhouse: Initially a gesture by Joe Sr. to commemorate his late son, the foundation became a force for disability rights under Eunice’s leadership.

  “Eunice hijacked the Kennedy foundation and transformed it into an effective advocacy organization...” – Julia Claire [28:41]

• Political Savvy: Eunice used her family’s influence to secure landmark changes (e.g., the first Presidential Commission on mental retardation).

  “Jack Kennedy didn’t know who those experts were. Eunice packed that commission with the best people in the country in all kinds of fields. She ran it.” – Eileen McNamara [29:06]

Behind-the-Scenes Power

• Political Agency: Though never a public official, Eunice wielded tremendous clout, drafting legislation and mobilizing politicians through sheer force of will.

  “She was the definition of impolitic. She, especially in this era, could never survive in politics, but behind the scenes—getting stuff done—yeah, that’s Eunice.” – Eileen McNamara [32:56]

• Famously Ruthless: Compared directly to male political bulldogs of her era, she didn’t get credit for her “ruthlessness” because she was a woman.

  “If that girl had been born with balls, she would have made a great president.” – Joe Kennedy Sr., as quoted by Eileen McNamara [35:51]

Expanding the Legacy: Beyond Special Olympics

• Lasting Policy Impact:
  • Established the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, now credited with saving countless premature babies.

    “...babies do not die of high line memory [membrane disease]. They live. And they live because of the research that was done at the institute that today is named the Eunice Kennedy Shriver Institute.” – Eileen McNamara [37:16]

  • Advocated for intellectual disabilities to be included in the Americans with Disabilities Act, fundamentally shifting federal disability policy.
• International Reach: Special Olympics operates in over 200 countries with millions of participants.

  “It started as a summer camp in her backyard in 1961... Now it’s in 200 countries, millions of children around the world, millions of volunteers...” – Eileen McNamara [69:05]

Complex Personal & Family Dynamics

• Contradictions as a Woman and Mother:
  • Publicly promoted traditional family values but lived a life of unconventional female empowerment and career focus.
  • Strictly policed her children's behavior to avoid Kennedy family pitfalls, sending her children across the country when they got into trouble.

    “She put a continent between her kid and those kids.” – Eileen McNamara [42:05]

  • Her marriage to Sargent Shriver was a true partnership in activism—though she “never really wanted to be married” and was inspired by the independence of nuns.

    “She wanted to be a nun... because those were the most powerful women that she had experienced in her lives.” – Eileen McNamara [51:13]

• Family Loyalty and Limits:
  • Privately acknowledged and joked about her father’s infidelities; publicly, she was fiercely loyal and defensive of family reputation.

  “Were you to publicly criticize a member of her family for their randy behavior, she would have been down your throat.” – Eileen McNamara [55:53]

• Resentment of Being Overlooked:
  • Eunice herself pointedly critiqued being ignored:

    “‘Isn’t it lovely that after all these years of celebrating the Kennedy men, somebody noticed?’” – Eileen McNamara [32:56]

Evolving Disability Rights and the Special Olympics

• Changing Terminology and Attitudes:
  • Language and perceptions of disability have evolved since Eunice’s era; her “special friends” language, while dated, reflected her times.

    “Would we call it the Special Olympics now? No, they’re not special like she called them then...” – Eileen McNamara [78:55]

• Drama at Her Funeral:
  • Special Olympians honored her by spontaneously putting medals in her grave, marking the deep global impact she had on their lives.

    “There were Special Olympians who took off their gold medal and dropped them into her grave.” – Eileen McNamara [73:10]

• Contrast to Family Narrative:
  • While her brothers’ legacies often depended on “winning,” Eunice’s legacy was built on “participation is everything”—the foundation of the Special Olympics ethos.

    “The Special Olympics is built on the foundation idea that participation is everything.” – Eileen McNamara [74:09]

Complicated Political Legacy

• On Abortion and Faith:
  • A passionate Catholic and consistently “pro-life,” Eunice also opposed the death penalty and held deep religious convictions that shaped her work.

    “She opposes the death penalty, too. She’s a Catholic... She thought that abortion was murder, and that’s the teaching of the Catholic Church, and she accepted that teaching.” – Eileen McNamara [78:55]

• Controversy Within the Family:
  • Eileen contends that RFK Jr.’s public stances, especially his anti-vaccine work and regressive disability rhetoric, directly betray Eunice’s life’s work.

    “There’s lots of ways in which Robert Kennedy Jr. has betrayed his family’s legacy. But I don’t think he’s betrayed anyone more than he has betrayed Eunice...” – Eileen McNamara [76:53]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On her unique power:

  “Orrin Hatch told me that he would hear her five minutes before she arrived... She never made an appointment... She just barged past his secretaries and into his office.” – Eileen McNamara [13:10]

• On Eunice’s public perception:

  “If she had been a man, all those less desirable qualities would have been assets for her.” – Julia Claire [34:37]

• On social change without public office:

  “She did more in her lifetime than... a number of people that are sitting on Capitol Hill right now.” – Eileen McNamara [32:56]

• On Special Olympics origins:

  “She went to the local prison and asked them to send her prisoners... In 1961, there was no background check.” – Eileen McNamara [69:05]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:39] — Eunice’s introduction and significance
• [06:19] — Eunice’s motivation for advocacy and her break with Kennedy tradition
• [11:15] — Her relentless personality & staff anecdotes
• [13:10] — Political clout and “hell on wheels” stories
• [28:41] — The transformation of the Kennedy Foundation
• [35:51] — “If that girl had been born with balls, she would have made a Great president”
• [37:16] — Lasting policy and medical research impact
• [42:05] — Shriver vs. Kennedy family dynamics
• [51:13] — On wanting to become a nun and independence
• [55:53] — On awareness and response to family scandals
• [69:05] — Special Olympics origin and global spread
• [73:10] — Special Olympians honoring Eunice at her funeral
• [74:09] — The philosophy of participation over victory
• [76:53] — RFK Jr.'s betrayal of Eunice's legacy
• [78:55] — Evolving disability terminology/politics and Eunice's place in history

---

Conclusion

Eunice Kennedy Shriver’s legacy stands as a testament to individual agency, passionate advocacy, and the often-overlooked power of women to shape policy and culture. Her relentless energy, unapologetic forcefulness, and deeply held values built institutions and protections for intellectual disabilities that far outlast the political dynasties surrounding her. This episode not only reframes Eunice as the Kennedy “who changed the world,” but inspires a reevaluation of how we remember, reward, and retell the stories of women who make history.

---

For a more detailed account of Eunice’s life and impact, check out Eileen McNamara’s book, “Eunice: The Kennedy Who Changed the World.”

Transcript

[Public Ad Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures if you're looking

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

for more flexibility in how you pay for everyday purchases, meet Klarna. Klarna lets you decide whether to pay now, pay later, or spread payments over time. All managed right in the Klarna app. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. Terms Apply California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

You're listening to a podcast, so you're doing something else too. Like maybe scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving places you like without thinking you'll get them. Because that's what house hunting has become. But Redfin isn't built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents, which means when you find a place you love, you've got a real shot at getting it. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get [e-mail] own the dream if you're

[Julia Claire]

feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal.

[Eileen McNamara]

You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first

[Julia Claire]

all in One prescription Strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds a day Oestro replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again.

[Eileen McNamara]

That's innerbalance.com Wasn't that delicious?

[Julia Claire]

So good.

[George Severis]

Your bill, ladies.

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

I got it. I got it.

[Julia Claire]

No, I got it.

[Eileen McNamara]

Seriously, I insist.

[Julia Claire]

I insisted first.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[George Severis]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Eileen McNamara]

Okay.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Eileen McNamara]

Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card.

[George Severis]

Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. I'm George Severis.

[Julia Claire]

And I'm Julia Claire.

[George Severis]

And this is United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week we go into one aspect of the Kennedy story, and today we are talking about one of the lesser known but perhaps most impactful members of the original Kennedy siblings, Eunice Kennedy Shriver.

[Julia Claire]

Eunice was the fifth of the nine Kennedy children to Joseph and Rose Kennedy. Though she lived and died in the shadow of her famous brothers, Eunice's lifelong commitment to public service has had lasting, positive outcomes for millions of Americans, particularly those with disabilities. While she's best known as the founder of the Special Olympics, we learned that that was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of her accomplishments and lasting legacy.

[George Severis]

To unpack Eunice's remarkable life today, we are joined by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and author of the Kennedy who Changed the world, Eileen McNamara.

[Julia Claire]

To call Eileen a legend is kind of an understatement. George and I are very excited about this, but for more than 30 years, Eileen did essential reporting for the Boston Globe, including on the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in the Boston archdioces, which directly led to the groundbreaking Spotlight investigation that shook the very foundation of the church. She's just the coolest. And George and I couldn't be more excited to have her.

[George Severis]

Aileen McNamara, welcome to United States of Kennedy.

[Eileen McNamara]

Thank you so much for having me.

[George Severis]

I have to tell you, we started this episode when we were conceptualizing it as an episode about the Special Olympics because that is honestly all we knew about Eunice Kennedy. And it was a member of the family we hadn't talked about. And we both found it very fascinating that there was this family where the the man was the established the Peace Corps and the woman created the Special Olympics. Two pretty iconic kind of American institutions that are overall pro social and philanthropic and kind of social justice oriented. Within this family that is otherwise completely mired in scandal and thin historical achievements. That's right. That's right. That's very true. We thought it would be mostly about the Special Olympics, and we thought it would be sort of like, you know, just the history of how they were established, where they are now. And then as we started doing more research, we realized that the real interesting part of the story is Eunice herself and her life. And obviously, your book did such invaluable work in terms of putting that on the map. However, even to this day, it's funny, I just did a very quick Google of Eunice just to go to her Wikipedia in case I needed it in front of me during the interview or something. And even her Wikipedia to this day is so thin compared to any other member of her family, despite the fact that, thanks to you and thanks to a few other people, the research is there, the writing is there, but it somehow hasn't achieved, you know, mainstream impact in the way that it deserved. So, with all that said, what drew you to Eunice initially?

[Eileen McNamara]

Well, first of all, to address why she hasn't been recognized for her contributions. She's a Kennedy woman. She is not a Kennedy man. And what drew me to her was I was a reporter or a columnist at the Boston Globe for 30 years. And you can't have a position like that in Boston and not have come across the Kennedys many, many times. And she was a force of nature, Eunice. If you covered a press conference by her, you paid attention, because if you were distracted, she called you up for it. And like you, I think when I started my research, I thought about the Special Olympics, and I had the misunderstanding of Eunice that I thought she was Lady Bountiful, you know, a kind, empathetic heiress who spent her life devoted to children with intellectual disabilities. That is exactly not who Eunice Kennedy Shriver was. She did not come into her life's work out of this feeling of noblesse obliv. She came to it out of her age about how her sister was treated, about how her mother was unable to find services for her daughter who had intellectual disabilities, compounded, of course, by the father's decision to lobotomize her when she was a young woman. And I think that's what fueled her all her life. But from the beginning of her life, Eunice Kennedy Shriver was a voice to be reckoned with. Joe Kennedy was a man of his era, so he focused all his attention on the futures of his sons. And his daughters were basically decorative accessories to their brother's. Political careers. And of all the girls, Eunice was not buying it. And her father thought he could buy her off in a way by putting her in charge of the Kennedy foundation, which was named for Joe Kennedy Jr. Who died tragically in World War II. And this foundation was created in his name, but it had no real focus until Joe Sr. Turned it over to unit. It's interesting when you look at the history of that foundation, which did more in the private sector to help people with intellectual disabilities than anyone in the federal government did in the 1940s and 50s. But if you look at their letterhead from the outset, the president of the foundation is Isa Joe, or it's Jack or it's Bobby, or it's Teddy. And I'm here to tell you that none of those men had anything to do with the Kennedy Foundation. Eunice ran it. Eunice focused it exclusively on issues of intellectual disability. And she understood from the beginning of her life that her boys would be out front and she would be the anonymous person behind the. But behind the scenes, she created a civil rights movement for people with disability that has had more impact, I'm here to say, than anything that the Kennedy men did in their lifetimes.

[Julia Claire]

It's so interesting, and I really. I think that your work is really convincing in that way, that this Kennedy that most of us have never heard of actually had so much more of a lasting and widespread impact than any of her famous brothers. I think what I love so much about the book is, and I'm sure that you. You enjoyed this as well as a research subject that you really seem to get to know her. And she has been kind of erased from history, and we know so much about her brother's personalities. And so my question for you was, like, the sense that you got of what she was like as a person. What was she like in social situations and in this family of very big personalities?

[Eileen McNamara]

Yeah, well, she had a big personality, but she was irascible. She was demanding. She was relentless. I wouldn't want to hang out with her. She would not want to hang out with me, because I don't know how to sail and I don't know how to. I'm not athletic. I don't weigh 109 pounds, which is what she weighed when she was 5 foot 11. She was a sickly person.

[Julia Claire]

Oh, my gosh. I'm 5 11.

[Eileen McNamara]

That's 100.

[Julia Claire]

I'm not 109 pounds.

[Eileen McNamara]

But I think that was compounded by, you know, her mother had an obsession about weight, and I think Eunice had an eating disorder all of her life, and she wasn't like a particularly healthy person, but she was relentless, absolutely relentless. She went through assistance the way you and I would go through tissues if we had a really bad head cold. People that worked for her told me just amazing stories about her expectations that were beyond belief. That came out of this sense that she had that everyone should care as passionately about this issue as she did, and nobody could. For instance, when the planes hit the Pentagon on 9 11, she hadn't come into work yet, the Kennedy foundation, but she called in from home, and the woman who was the executive director said, well, I'm going to send everyone home because what's happening? And she said, don't send anybody home. We have work to do. The work doesn't stop just because those planes hit the towers and hit the Pentagon. Now, the executive director sent everybody home. But that was who Eunice was. She was just. She was hell on wheel. And that's why the Special Olympics, although it's an enormous accomplishment, is the least of it. I don't think that people really understand that until 1975, a child with intellectual disabilities in the United States did not have a legal right to a feat in a public school classroom, let alone be mainstreamed with other kids without disability. Eunice Kennedy Shriver made those things happen. The Americans for Disabilities act originally was about people with physical disabilities. So we have sidewalk curbs for people who are in wheelchairs, which is a wonderful accomplishment. But Lowell Weiker was a Republican who really championed that as a senator from Connecticut who was like a moving force behind that legislation. In 1990, that bill got a lot bigger when Eunice showed up in his office and said, lowell, I don't see anything in this bill about people with intellectual disability. And as it happened, Senator Weicker had a son, Sonny, who had intellectual disability. So he was well acquainted with Eunice and this issue. And suddenly that bill was rewritten, and it was rewritten by the force of her personality. Legislation passed between 1961, when John Kennedy went to the White House, and her death, that passed because just as forceful as she was with her poor suffering assistance, she was that way on the Hill. She was absolutely that way. When she went to a senator's office, Orrin Hatch told me that he would hear her five minutes before she arrived in our voice, that kind of voice, and he would hear her down the hall. She never made an appointment to see him, and she never asked him for anything. She just barged past his secretaries and into his office. And told him, I've written this bill and Teddy is going to carry it for the Democrats and I need a Republican and Oren wannabe. You people did what she asked to do.

[George Severis]

We were really hoping you would whip out the Eunice impression because we have seen you, We've both watched YouTube videos of you doing it. And we didn't want to ask explicitly, but we were hoping.

[Eileen McNamara]

Well, that's shit less Ms. Halk. Maria doesn't watch the.

[George Severis]

Yes, that's right. I mean the single mind or not single mindedness, I think that's reductive. But the verve with which she fought for the rights of people with intellectual disabilities really makes sense when you think back to what you said about her being motivated by rage, because she is someone who felt a very personal connection to this issue. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about that, a little bit about where she got her fire from. Because on the one hand, as you say, there's a rage and also the guilt that she feels because of what happened to Rosemary, her sister. On the other hand, there is a more intellectual level to this. She studied sociology. She actually studied, as you know, in an academic environment how inequality, how inequality presents itself in society and in American society. On the third pant. She also was incredibly religious as, as, as the rest of her family was. And you say that her Catholicism was based in action rather than belief. She really felt like it was all about what you do to express your religious ideals. And it was a very social justice focused kind of Catholicism.

[Eileen McNamara]

In contrast to her mother, you know, who prayed.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly.

[Eileen McNamara]

She was very prayerful. I don't know how prayerful Eunice was. She went to church every day, but I don't know that that was the focus of her Catholicism action work.

[Julia Claire]

We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break.

[Knix Ad Announcer]

You know what's wild? We can video chat from space, order groceries just by talking out loud and men have like 17 options for hair loss alone. But a bra that act actually fits and feels good. Apparently too much to ask until now. Meet the uplift bra from Nyx. That's KN I X. A wireless bra that finally delivers real lift and all day comfort. The secret molded cups with a built in foam panel that gently enhances your natural shape so you get a subtle boost without wires digging or that. Why am I still wearing this moment at 3pm you asked for it. We delivered in a push up bra that doesn't dig, poke or pinch and with an extensive size range from 28A through 42E, you'll be sure to find your perfect fit with the uplift. Try the uplift [e-mail] and use code perfectfit15 for 15% off your first order. That's knix.com code perfectfit15nix.com support for the

[Public Ad Announcer]

show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures [e-mail] have you heard about Klarna?

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Klarna is an app designed to make everyday spending simpler and more transparent. It gives you flexibility to decide how you want to pay, whether that's paying right away, paying later, or spreading payments over time, depending on what works best for you. Everything is managed in the Klarna app so you can keep track of purchases and stay organized. You can also discover deals and even earn cash back when you shop through the Klarna app with participating brands. It's all about flexibility and staying in control of how and when you pay. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. Terms Apply California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance law license NMLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points Limitations, Terms and Conditions Now I'd like

[Meaningful Beauty / Cindy Crawford Ad Announcer]

to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's Full Regular Regiment which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of Melonleaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.

[Julia Claire]

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

[George Severis]

So how in terms of her relationship with Rosemary, what was that like before Rosemary was lobotomized? I mean, Eunice was an adult when it happened. She wasn't a child. And so how did that change her relationship with her father and with the rest of her family?

[Eileen McNamara]

Well, that's a good question. You have a lot you packed into that. But if I could go back a little bit to where you started, I mean Eunice is distinguished from the other Kennedy women in that she had a very serious higher education. She went to Stanford. I mean, I know the Kennedy men went to Harvard la dee da. But the fact of the matter Is the other Kennedy women were sent off to Sacred Heart convent schools, as Eunice was initially. She went to Manhattanville in New York initially, but she transferred, at Jack's urging, to Stanford. And then when she moved to Chicago, she studied at the Chicago School, you know, at University of Chicago, where sociology was really born. I mean, all of the great practitioners were there. She worked as a social worker in a detention facility for wayward girls. You know, what does that mean? I mean, it means somebody was pregnant who was not married. Petty thieves, not serious criminals, but they were incarcerated at this convention as if they were. And they worked in a laundry just like the Magdalene sisters did in Ireland with people. They had a pretty tough road to ho there. And she was somebody who tried to transition them from their unfortunate circumstances back into society. She saw potential in them. She was a serious, thoughtful person. She came out of a family where, as you've examined in your podcast, excellence was expected of everyone. And the record shows that Rosemary was born with minor, really what we would think of today as minor intellectual disability. She didn't have down syndrome. She was not severely impacted by whatever it was that caused her illness. Now, I've read all kinds of fanciful reasons for why she was born with intellectual disabilities, including the farcical idea that the doctor or the nurse told Rose to cross her legs and not give birth until the obstetrician arrived for the home birth. Anybody who's had a baby knows that that's not possible. She wasn't deprived of oxygen because Rose crossed her legs. The Spanish flu was pretty prevalent at the time. I don't know if Rose was affected. That's not in the historical record. We don't know what caused her issues. But I think that the most you would say about Rosemary is that she was slow. But she went to garden parties in London when her father was the ambassador to the Court of St. James alone. She was holding conversations with other young adults. You can see in the films that I examined at the Kennedy Library from that era, there is nobody walking around sheltering her. So she doesn't embarrass the family. She could hold her own. The tragedy of Rosemary's life was stablobotomy. As far as we can tell, no one knew that he was going to do that, including Rose, and that he told them when it was over and was a disastrous result. She was non verbal, she fairly mobile after that lobotomy. And then the real tragedy is what followed, where she was exiled from the family and in order to promote the boys political careers and their futures. She was sidelined and never spoken again or when spoken about, was lied about that she was teaching in a school for children with intellectual disability when, in fact, she was at St. Helena's as a resident. Eunice was getting ready to go to Stanford when her father had that operation done on Rosemary. She did not go to Stanford because she was traumatized and had to get to the other side of the country. She had delayed her entry there. She was already on a path to go there. I think it probably was the most significant event in her young life when she realized what happened to Rosemary. We don't have records too much about when she did know. We do have correspondence between Rose and St. Coletta's School in which Rose sort of washes her hands about the care of Rosemary and says, my daughter Eunice is someone you should talk to, because her father talked to her about this early on. So I think probably while she was at Stanford, the father told her what happened to Rosemary, and he would have told her first among all of them because she was in charge of Rosemary when she was a child. She taught her how to swim. She taught her how to sail when she was in all those races that they were always competitively involved in on Nantucket Sound. Rosemary was her second in the boat. And she didn't like that because she lost a lot of races because of Rosemary, and believe me, she cared about winning those races. So, again, this notion that she was just so compassionate is not exactly true, but she was her protector in life, and she came to see that if the Kennedy foundation could have an impact, it ought to pick an issue and it ought to focus all its money and its attention there, and she did that.

[Julia Claire]

This is a perfect segue. You say in the book that Eunice hijacked the Kennedy foundation and transformed it into an effective advocacy organization for the rights of people with intellectual disabilities. So we would love to know, like, if you could give us a sense of what the Kennedy foundation was like before Eunice and then after.

[Eileen McNamara]

Right. It was, you know, it was a gesture that Joe made. He had to do something to commemorate the life of his son that he lost and who he had placed his presidential ambitions on, frankly. So the death of Joe required something of him. He created this, and they built an ice skating rink in Hyannis. There's a church that has a beautiful marble altar on Cape Cod that is, you know, was created by the Kennedy Foundation. And Cardinal Cushing was the archbishop of Boston at the time and was very influential with Joe Kennedy. And intellectual disabilities was a Particular concern of Cardinal Cushing's. So he prevailed upon Joe to give him a lot of money to create St. Coletta School, which is in Braintree, Massachusetts, which was a residential school for children with these intellectual disabilities. So he had sort of, Joe had dipped his toe in there. Eunice just took the focus and it went there and it never came back. And she was an incredible political operative too. When I talk about how the women were just sort of decorative accessories to the Kennedy boys careers, that's not true either. I mean, when I read biographies of Jack Kennedy, I'm always frustrated when I get to the sections that are always very small about Eunice, when they describe what an irritant she was to the President. And you know, they always quote Jack Kennedy saying to his aides, when Eunice comes to the White House, what she asks for, just give it to her. And the impression you're supposed to walk away with is that he would do anything to get that woman out of his face and off the phone. Some of that may be true, but the reality is that Jack Kennedy knew that when it came to this issue, if she was asking for was worthwhile and he was going to lean into what she was asking for, and the evidence of this is overwhelming. Before he even took the oath of office, she convinced him to create a presidential commission on mental retardation, which is what we called intellectual disabilities back in the day. And there was no precedent for anything like this. It was an enormous commission full of all of the experts in the country. Well, Jack Kennedy didn't know who those experts were. Eunice packed that commission with the best people in the country in all kinds of fields. Law, medicine, genetics. You name it, they were on there. And she ran it. Her name's not on it, but she ran it. She was at every meeting, she set the agenda. And that's why, because she knew on this issue what was needed. And she knew that what this issue needed was not a private foundation run by her dad, wealthy as they were, they could not solve this problem. She wanted the weight of the federal government behind the needs of these children.

[George Severis]

You talk a lot about how the by necessity she became a behind the scenes operative, so to speak. She was not running for Senate or running for office. Is that something that just happened because that was what was available to her or did she have to, did she have, you know, a semi secret desire to be more public, to be the actual face and name of these movements that she, that she helped create?

[Eileen McNamara]

I don't think there was anything secret about it. Yeah, I think she would have looked to get the credit that she didn't get and still doesn't get in her lifetime. When the Kennedy Library in Boston had a big event for her toward the end of her life acknowledging her remarkable contribution, she came and her family came, and all the surviving Kennedys were there. It was a packed house. And her remarks were classic even as well, isn't it lovely that after all these years of celebrating the Kennedy men, somebody noticed, you know? So on the one hand, thank you very much. This is a lovely honor. On the other hand, where you people been for 40 years, the reality, I think, is she would have been a terrible politician. I think she might have liked to run for office, but there's a great lesson in her life is that you don't have to be in the House of Representatives or in the Congress to affect social change. I mean, she did more in her lifetime than. Well, I can name a number of people that are sitting on Capitol Hill right now that they'll ever accomplish in their lifetime. So, yeah, she would have liked it, but she was too intemperate. She was too demanding. She was the definition of impolitic. She, especially in this era, she could never survive in politics, but behind the scenes, getting stuff done. Yeah, that's you.

[Julia Claire]

Well, it's funny because the way that you describe her, I think if she had been a man, all of those maybe less desirable qualities that you describe would have been assets for her. I think the, you know, when you talk about her just kind of barging into Orrin Hatch's office, it almost. It reminds me of the way that LBJ would operate. He was like just kind of a bull in a china shop to get things done. And that is something that really, I think would have gone a long way if she had been a man. And. Yeah, I think if she had. But I think you're absolutely right that if. That she could never have won over the public.

[Eileen McNamara]

Yeah, and you're absolutely right. It's because she was a woman. I mean, what's the adjective most often used to describe Bobby Kennedy? He was ruthless. He was ruthless. Well, in the service of her aims. Eunice Kennedy Shriver was ruthless, too. But it doesn't fly when you were a woman, and it certainly didn't fly in that era when you were a woman.

[George Severis]

What is it that her father said that I'm sorry to work blue, but he said if Eunice had, she would be president or something. What was it?

[Eileen McNamara]

If that girl had been born with balls, she would have made a Great president.

[George Severis]

That's what it is.

[Julia Claire]

Yes, it's true.

[Eileen McNamara]

Right. But you know what? That's a reflection on Joe Kennedy Sr's limited imagination. That a man with his experience and his money thought the only horses you could back had to be men. You know, says something about the limitations of his own vision. Not about her. You know, when Jack Kennedy went to Congress in 1947, there were seven women in the House of Representatives. I mean, that's paltry, but they were there. It's not that Eunice couldn't do it. And by the way, Eunice got to Washington before Jack Kennedy. She worked for the State Department in 1945 and 1946. So when Jack came, she welcomed him to the Federals.

[Julia Claire]

This is a great intro to another question that we had for you, which is kind of really about the thesis of your book, which is that Eunice is the sibling with the most lasting impact on the world, and it expands far beyond just the Special Olympics. So what are some other of her accomplishments that. That people might not be aware of?

[Eileen McNamara]

So. Well, her nephew is trying to dismantle them as we speak.

[Julia Claire]

Right, right.

[George Severis]

Gosh.

[Eileen McNamara]

So her accomplishments are broad and deep. I'll give you one example. In 1963, three months before JFK was assassinated in Dallas, Jackie gave birth to their son, Patrick Bouillier Kennedy. Patrick was premature. He was born with something called highline membrane disease, which is basically undeveloped lungs. In 1963, most babies born with that condition died because we didn't have the research. We didn't know how to treat premature infants. We didn't have the expertise, Una is argued, to John Kennedy in 1961, that he needed in the National Institute of Health to create a special institute for child health and human development so that we could study pregnancy, childbirth, and infancy, so that we would be able to understand diseases, developmental stages that medicine had simply not paid much attention to back in the early 60s. We operated under a disease model, so we studied heart disease and we studied cancer, but we didn't look at issues, development. Jack Kennedy's response to that initially had been, why would I want to create another institute within the Institute of Health? There's too many competing factions. I'll never get that through Congress. And so Eunice did what she always did when she wanted to convince Jack of something. She took him sailing, and they went out on Nantucket Sound. And at that point in they're like, Jackie had had miscarriages. She had had a stillbirth. And Eunice is living embodiment of the philosophy that Feminism has long promoted, which is the personal is political and the political is personal. Jack, don't you want to know why those things happened? Don't you think Jackie deserves to know why those things happen? Jack created the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development. And today, babies do not die of high line memory. They live. And they lived because of the research that was done at the institute that today is named the Eunice Kennedy Shriver Institute for Child Health and Human Development. And when this biography that I wrote of Eunice came out, they invited me down to speak to the doctors there. And I spoke to an auditorium full of medical researchers, most of whom had no idea why her name was on that building.

[Julia Claire]

Wow.

[George Severis]

It's interesting. We are obviously complicit in this because we wanted to focus on the Special Olympics. But it goes back to how the parts of her that are most well known are the ones that fit into this narrative of her as a kind heiress, basically, who wants to do, you know, uplifting philanthropy. You know, something funding medical research is, you know, much more, quote, unquote, serious and substantial in something that, you know, a man would. A man would do in that time.

[Eileen McNamara]

Well, Bobby Kennedy Jr. Should thank its lucky stars every day that his aunt is not still with us because his war on vaccinations and his war on medical expertise is the kind of thing that would set her hair on fire.

[George Severis]

And I'm glad you brought up Bobbi junior But also more broadly, her family and her personal relationships, because I do want to talk a little bit about her personal life and her personal relationships. You were able to talk to all of her children for the book. You did a lot of research into Sergeant Shriver and their marriage. There's some. I mean, one of my favorite sort of quotes is when Bobby Shriver is crying and someone says, you know, Kennedys don't cry. And then his father tells him, but you're a Shriver. You can cry. So can you talk a little bit about what her. I guess the, the tension between her own family that she grew up in and then the family she created. It seems to me like the, the Shriver Kennedy clan had a. A sort of its own subculture that was slightly different than, Than the Kennedy environment that she grew up in.

[Eileen McNamara]

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. The Shriver kids are very different than their Kennedy cousin in almost every way I can think of. And that is not by accident. I'll give you an example. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Was a member of a group that they like to call among themselves The Hyannis Porter's. And, you know, they would unleash people's boats and let them drift off into the sound. And, you know, they smoked a little grass and they, you know, they were just teenagers. Well, Bobby Shriver was hanging out with him at the time. They were like 16 years old and they were busted for smoking marijuana. And that was the end of the Shriver kids hanging out with the Kennedy cousins. When they came out of the courthouse, Bobby went directly to an airplane with his father, Sergeant Driver, and they flew to California. And that's Eunice. She put a continent between her kid and those kids. And they went to tennis camp for a week, dad and Bobby. And I think they instilled in their kids early and often, you know, the Kennedy ethic, you know, to whom much is given, much is required. So that they had larger obligations than themselves and that they were public people and that nobody in our family is getting busted for drugs. And nobody in that family ever got busted again, let me tell you. And as we all know, that wasn't the end of Bobby Kennedy's presence with. So I think that they were just a very, very different family. Look at what the Shriver kids are doing today. Tim is the head of Special Olympics. Mark works for Save the Children. Maria runs, like, philanthropic work on women with Alzheimer's. Her dad, Sergeant Shriver, died of Alzheimer's. They're out there doing the kind of work their mother would have expected them to do. So she saved them from some of the downsides of being in that family. Did that mean that they got away scot free? No. She was a very difficult person to have as a mother. I loved when I was doing my research, reading these pieces that she did for Redbook and Good Housekeeping about how motherhood was the most noble profession. And, you know, nobody should disparage women who have five or six children because, you know, the glory of motherhood, blah, blah, blah. And working women who seem to think that a career could replace motherhood were so misguided. Yeah, well, tell that to the Shriver kids. Because mom was at work all the time. They woke up.

[Julia Claire]

I know.

[Eileen McNamara]

And half the time they didn't know what country she was in. Because when she founded Special Olympics, she didn't limit herself to the United States. I mean, she was kicking down doors in China and in South Africa, I mean, where kids were still held in those Dickensian warehouses that used to exist in the United States too, where children with intellectual disabilities were just warehoused and institutionalized. So, you know, she talks a good game about, you know, the glory of motherhood, but she went around a lot.

[Julia Claire]

We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break.

[Knix Ad Announcer]

You know what's wild? We can video chat from space, order groceries just by talking out loud and men have like 17 options for hair loss alone. But a bra that actually fits and feels good? Apparently too much to ask until now. Meet the Uplift bra from nyx. That's Knix, a wireless bra that finally delivers real lift and all day comfort. The secret? Molded cups with a built in foam panel that gently enhances your natural shape so you get a subtle boost without wires, digging or that why am I still wearing this moment at 3pm? You asked for it. We delivered in a push up bra that doesn't dig, poke or pinch. And with an extensive size range from 28A through 42E, you'll be sure to find your perfect fit with the uplift. Try the uplift [e-mail] and use code PERFECTFIT15 for 15% off your first order. That's KN I X.com code PERFECTFIT15nyx.com support

[Public Ad Announcer]

for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with a AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures if you're looking

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

for more flexibility in how you pay for everyday purchases, meet Klarna. Klarna lets you decide whether to pay now, pay later or spread payments over time. All managed right in the Klarna app. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. Terms Apply California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback Points Limitations, Terms and conditions apply.

[Meaningful Beauty / Cindy Crawford Ad Announcer]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon Leaf Stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All of that available@meaningful beauty.com

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shops. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.

[Julia Claire]

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

[George Severis]

She is full of contradictions when it comes to her place in, let's say, feminist history or for lack of a better term, I mean, she is, as you're saying, she was sort of a publicly a very big advocate for, let's say, traditional family values in the way that you're describing, while also very clearly being incredibly self determined, motivated, in a very equal marriage. We should also say, it seems like her. I mean, she really was very empowered, both at home and at work, and that delighted.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Parts.

[Eileen McNamara]

Parts. She made a very good choice of a husband.

[George Severis]

Yes, it seems so.

[Eileen McNamara]

Or I should say. I should say Joe Kennedy made a very good choice of a husband.

[George Severis]

Yes. We'll talk about empowering the Sharver kids would.

[Eileen McNamara]

You know, I'm not sure that they agree with this, but their mother never wanted to be married, in my view. She wanted to be a nun. She wanted to be a nun not just because she was a devout Catholic. She wanted to be a nun because those were the most powerful women that she had experienced in her lives, you know, in all of their lives. Those women made decisions on their own. Priests didn't tell women in the convent what to do. They ran their own lives. And I think she admired that greatly. The juvenile facility that she worked in in Chicago was run by the Sisters of the Good shepherd, and she loved them, and I think she wanted to be like them. Sergeant Trevor asked her to marry him seven times before she said yes. That's a long time. And finally, Joe inserted himself into that courtship and called Father Ted Hesburgh, who was the president of Notre Dame. And Chicago isn't that far from Notre Dame. So Eunice and Sarge used to go down there for Notre Dame football games. So they knew Ted Hesburgh when he was a young priest and teacher there before he became the president of the university. And so Joe called him and said, you gotta talk to Eunice about this. She thinks she's got a vocation for the nunhood. Like, you gotta talk her out of that. And for years, and by years, I mean decades, Father Hesburgh, who was like a national public figure, a huge civil rights activist, wonderful human being, for years, he dined out privately on the story that I'm going to tell you, but he would never put it on the record. So you read Kennedy biographies, and he'll say, oh, no, no. I knew that she and Sarge would be a great marriage. That's a wonderful partnership. And I had nothing to do with it. Well, he was in his late 90s when I called him and I said, well, you know, Father, you're not going to live forever. And at some point, you might want to put this on the record. I mean, either you did or you didn't tell Eunice to marry Sergeant Shriver. And he said, what the hell, Irene? They're all dead. And then he told me that what he actually said to her was, I think you do have a vocation to do the kind of work that you're doing, but I don't think that that precludes a marriage. I don't think you have to join the convent to do that work. He said, I think you have a vocation that includes marrying Sergeant Shy. And she married him.

[Julia Claire]

Wow.

[Eileen McNamara]

And they had a wonderful marriage. I think they were very happy. Separate bedrooms, but they have five children. And I think it was a good marriage. They really were partners in social justice. I mean, you mentioned the Peace Corps. Again, we think of Sergeant Shriver and we think of the Peace Corps just as we think of Eunice and we think of Special Olympics. But he also started the job poor. He also started legal aid for the poor. I mean, these were people who devoted their lives to be disenfranchised.

[George Severis]

Can I ask you something along those lines? It seems like they really were very earnestly committed to social justice. And Julie and I were talking about how oftentimes in this podcast we want to talk about someone who has an amazing reputation. And then the more we dig deep, the more we find skeletons in their closet. And this is kind of the opposite, where it's people that, you know, maybe you don't know much about, and it turns out they're much better people than you thought they were. I mean, for, for the Kennedy family, it's really very rare. And I'm wondering as, as people, especially Eunice, as someone who was very, a very deeply moral and ethical person, how did she react to the various sins of her family members? Like she's, you know, how much was she aware of JFK's various crazy affairs, of the way that, that all the men in her family treated women? Was that something she was. I mean, I know you, you said somewhere that the Kennedys are notoriously not very self reflective. So maybe there's not much there. But I'm wondering what, you know, what you think she, she felt about all that stuff?

[Eileen McNamara]

I think she knew it all. I mean, she knew that her father was a landerer. One of the great gifts that the Shriver kids gave me was access to her private papers, which nobody had ever read. And reading is like the wrong word because they were in boxes with like VHS tapes of Maria on the Today show. They were like. Everything in her life was a jumble, and her archives were the same. You know, I hope that someday the kids give those papers back to the Kennedy Library where they were in storage, so that an archivist can organize them, because she is a historical figure. And Sarge's papers are there. And I think Eunice's papers should be there, too. I hope they do it someday. What did she think? Well, she knew about her father. I know she did, just from the correspondence in those boxes that I looked at. And she joked with Jock about their father. I assume she knew about Jack. She was his roommate when he was a bachelor in Washington. They lived together when he first came to Congress. They shared a townhouse in Georgetown. You know, she not blind. She saw the women coming in and going out, and she was anything but stupid. I think she was a pretty sophisticated person, and she lived in a family where that was tolerated. And I think, you know, she went along because that's what women did. They put up with it. But were you to publicly criticize a member of her family for the randy behavior, she would have been down your throat. And she was. She wrote ridiculous letter to the Washington Post when Marlena Dietrich wrote her autobiography in which she talked about her affair with Joe Kennedy. And the letter Eunice wrote to the Washington Post decrying them, writing a review of this scandalous autobiography full of lies about her father was absurd because of course she knew that her father had had an affair with Marlene Dietrich because he had it in on the French Riviera where the whole family was spending the summer. That's where it started. So none of this was news to her. But loyalty is a very important quality in the Kennedy family.

[Julia Claire]

Something that you mentioned that I want to go back to is this idea that I don't think a lot of people understand, which is the idea of nuns as being kind of aspirational figures for independently minded women. I just. I think that when people think of nuns, they think of them as obviously being extremely obedient, subservient. Maybe it's because I have, like, one of my aunts is a nun, and I, you know, know the person who she is. I think it makes a lot of sense that kind of rebellious women were attracted to the convent because you could be independent. Right.

[Eileen McNamara]

So most people's experience, I mean, if you're Catholic, I. I went 12 years to parochial school, so I had my own experience. And I wouldn't say that Sister Catherine Martin did anything but terrify me.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah.

[Eileen McNamara]

So people think of nuns in all of these kind of, you know, hokey. You know, they're scary, they carry big rulers, blah, blah, blah. But nuns didn't just teach. You know, nuns have always been out there in the social service sector. They have always been working in prisons and on the street with drug addicts. That's where a lot of the work of nuns has taken place. And those are the nuns that she admired, and those were places that she wanted to be. She worked at Alderson Prison, the only federal prison for women. Nobody knew that about her, that she had done that. Now, how did she get a job there? She didn't get paid, of course. She never got paid for any of the jobs that she did, except for her first week on the job at the State Department when she was a young woman. After she graduated from Stanford, she got her first paycheck, and she sent it to her parents. It was $60, I think. And she said, do something wild with this. And then after that, of course, she didn't take a paycheck because she was what they called back in the 40s, a dollar a year girl. Rich men who had daughters who were somewhere between their education and their wedding day needed something interesting to do, so they got them jobs, and then they didn't have to pay them for those jobs. And Eunice, she was a very good, serious person. She worked for the Justice Department on juvenile delinquency, a cause that, by the way, Bobby Kennedy Sr. Never had any interest in until he became the Attorney General under jfk. And Eunice showed up at his office and said, I'd like to talk to you about juvenile delinquency, because here's a report that I wrote in 1947, and nothing has changed since then. So let's talk about getting services to juvenile delinquents instead of incarcerating them. And Bobby Kennedy launched this huge effort to combat juvenile delinquency. But Bobby didn't do it. She did it.

[Julia Claire]

Well, it's clear that as difficult as it was for her to be a woman in that time, her brothers, at the very least, seemed to take her seriously and knew that she had, like, a level of intellectual heft and seriousness that maybe even they didn't have.

[George Severis]

You know, there's more trust within the family than there is without. Like, I think that if they're going to listen to a woman, it might as well be their sister.

[Eileen McNamara]

Yeah, well, they had a lot of sisters. Yeah, they only had one. She was one of a kind. There's a great story about there was a vote on the senate floor in 1964. And it was occurring at the same time that the Kennedy foundation board was meeting to vote on their annual budget. And an aide to Bobby Kennedy came to the Senate floor to tell him, this vote is going to conflict with this vote. Where are you going to be? And he said, seriously, I'm going to the Kennedy Foundation. Because you didn't say no to Eunice. I mean, I covered her a little bit, you know, as a reporter, but I didn't know her. And when the Globe sent me to Capitol Hill to cover Congress my first week there, I had lunch with Senator Kennedy, Ted Kennedy at that point in his office. And as we're having lunch, his secretary comes in to say, I'm sorry to bother you, Senator, and Kennedy's a little mipped. He said, look, I told you we shouldn't be disturbed. I'm new reporter for the Globe hometown paper. And his secretary said, I'm sorry, Senator, I would not have bothered you, but it's Una. And I was thunderstruck. I mean, I didn't know her. And Kennedy said, okay, tell her I'll be right there. And he looked at me and he said, have you met my sister Eunice? And I said, not really, Senator. And he said, well, you'll understand why I have to take this call. I watched him pick up the phone and this was his side of the conversation. Yeah, I will. I did. I told you I would and I did. Yes, yes, I will. Yes, I'll be there, Eunice. I will be there. Yes. Okay, so I don't know. That's who she loves.

[Julia Claire]

We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break.

[Knix Ad Announcer]

You know what's wild? We can video chat from space, order groceries just by talking out loud, and men have like, like 17 options for hair loss alone. But a bra that actually fits and feels good. Apparently too much to ask. Until now. Meet the uplift bra from Nix. That's KN I x a wireless bra that finally delivers real lift and all day comfort. The secret, molded cups with a built in foam panel that gently enhances your natural shape so you get a subtle boost without wires digging. Or that. Why am I still wearing this moment at 3pm you asked for it. We delivered in a push up bra that doesn't dig, poke or pinch. And with an extensive size range from 28A through 42E. You'll be sure to find your perfect fit with the uplift. Try the uplift [e-mail] and use code perfectfit15 for 15% off your first order that's kn Ix.com code perfectfit15nix.com support for

[Public Ad Announcer]

the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures if you're looking

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

for more flexibility in how you pay for everyday purchases, meet Klarna. Klarna lets you decide whether to pay now, pay later, or spread payments over time. All managed right in the Klarna app. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. Terms Apply California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License, NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Eileen McNamara]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well I don't know about you, but

[Julia Claire]

like I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like why even bother saying that?

[Eileen McNamara]

Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age.

[Julia Claire]

That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about.

[Eileen McNamara]

We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now.

[Julia Claire]

Meaningful Beauty.

[Meaningful Beauty / Cindy Crawford Ad Announcer]

Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

Let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app. You can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise. And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.

[Julia Claire]

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

[George Severis]

All right, as we're, as we're, you know, kind of coming to an end, I do want to talk about the Special Olympics because it is. It is obviously such a lasting part of her legacy. So if you don't mind, if you can just give us the basics, you know, how did it come about? How did it become such a huge success? I think from what I understand, it is to this day an incredible success. And she would be very proud of it. So I would love to know, you know, as a sort of very quick history, if you will, it is an enormous success.

[Eileen McNamara]

And it's, it's in 200 countries, millions of children around the world, millions of volunteers around the world in countries where you would not expect to find a special Olympic. It is there. It started as a summer camp in her backyard in 1961. And she did it the way she did everything. It's like off the top of her head by the seat of her pants, she said, we ought to have this. Because the mother had called her and said, I have a child with these issues and I have no way to send them to summer camp. So she said, send them half. She lived on a 200 acre estate in Maryland called Timberlawn. They had a swimming pool, they had a basketball court, they had tennis courts, they had horses. So she just opened basically her backyard to these children. And who was going to work there? Well, she went to the Catholic schools, and she got all the good Catholic school kids to volunteer to help her then. And then she did something that was typical of Eunice. She went to the local prison and she asked them to send her prisoners. But can you imagine today anyone saying, could you please open the cells and send me some prisoners to help? They had to build paddocks for the horses so they could have pony rides for the kids. And it was 1961. There was no, like, background checks. They brought them over in a prison bus from Loudoun, Virginia, and they volunteered at her camp. And there were black children and white children swimming in her swimming pool. And I remind you, it was 1961, and we were in Maryland, and there was segregation law still on the book. And when Saturday Evening Post came to call to photograph this amazing social experiment that she was conducting in her backyard, they ran these fabulous photographs of this integrated summer camp. That's one of the small ways in which she helped change the world. When we talked a little bit before about, did she resent at all not having enough recognition for the work she did, let me say that Eunice was not afraid to take credit even when it wasn't due. Now, in 1961, she did start what she called Camp Shriver in her backyard. But meanwhile in Chicago, there was a young woman named Ann Burke who worked for the Parks Department, and she started a summer camp for kids with intellectual disabilities of the Chicago Park District. And Eunice got wind of her program, flew out to Chicago, got to know her, and stole her idea. And very first Special Olympics was held in Chicago in 1968, organized by the Chicago Parks District. It was an extraordinary event in no small part because her brother Bobby had been murdered only six weeks before. And everybody expected that this event would be canceled, but it was not canceled. Eunice went to Chicago and she announced, although she had announced this to absolutely no one but herself, that this was just the beginning. We were in Chicago for the Special Olympics, but this was going to be given a national event. And, of course, it did become a national and now an international event. Yeah.

[George Severis]

There was this beautiful story in. I can't remember if it was in the book or if you said it in an interview, where at her funeral there were Special Olympians that kind of spontaneously, I think, put their medals in the ground to be with Eunice.

[Eileen McNamara]

They did. They were Special Olympians, took off their gold medal and dropped them into her grave. And there was a whole parade of Special Olympians that followed her coffin from the church.

[George Severis]

And as you say, her funeral was noticeably way less glamorous than that of Teddy, who died, what, two weeks later?

[Eileen McNamara]

Yeah, and she's buried on the Cape with Sarge. You know, it's a fairly humble cemetery plot. She's not in Arlington National Cemetery, and she shouldn't be. She should be on the Cape. She was exactly where she should have been. And she should have been buried from that, you know, small whitewashed church on the Cape, because that was an enormous part of her life. She loved the cape, but she deserves, like a much larger chapter in the Kennedy family story. A few years ago, CNN did a. I think that's. They're actually rerunning it now. They did a documentary series on the Kennedy family and she's not even mentioned. And to me it's criminal because I took a lot of grief for the subtitle of the book, the Kennedy who Changed the World. And I think one of the historians who reviewed it for the Washington Post said, well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration. After all, we wouldn't be here. Worry not for JFK's handling of the Cuban missile prices. Well, say I today. Okay, but how are we doing with our relationship with Cuba right now? She left a lasting, lasting legacy in spite of her family. I mean, she used the Kennedy name and she used the Kennedy fortune to make it happen. But I would say that she, in lots of ways is the anti Kennedy, because Joe Kennedy's philosophy is you have to finish first, second place doesn't count. And the Special Olympics is built on the foundation idea that participation is everything. And these children would never have been able to participate were it not for Eunice Kennedy Shriver. It's so.

[Julia Claire]

I mean, she's such an inspiring figure. And I do, I hope everyone who listens to this buys your book. And you'll have to find it on

[Eileen McNamara]

a remainder table somewhere. Good luck.

[Julia Claire]

But it's also so interesting in the context of the present day, particularly with RFK Jr. Because so much of his political project, I would say, is obviously like his anti vaccine policies. When you really listen to the things that he says, a lot of it comes from the fact that he believes autism, which is kind of the most. Now the most visible intellectual disability is the worst thing that could ever happen to a family is having a child born with autism. And it's just in such stark contrast to the way that. To what Eunice believed and to her life's work really was that people with intellectual disabilities are full and complete people unto themselves, and they are not a burden. Which is entirely how RFK Jr speaks about them in the present day. He had that crazy thing of like, they'll never throw a baseball, they'll never write a poem. All of this which is just not true.

[Eileen McNamara]

It's not true. There's lots of ways in which Robert Kennedy Jr. Has betrayed his family's legacy. But I don't think he's betrayed anyone more than he has betrayed Eunice and this entire administration. They're dismantling the Education Department. And the civil rights protections that are built into the law that Eunice got passed in 1975 are being dismantled as we speak, because they're not a priority. And I think there's lots of ways in which the resistance has to stand up. And one of the ways that we stand up isn't just in Minnesota. It's everywhere. It's in the daily dismantling of the protections for vulnerable people in our society that is happening under Donald Trump.

[George Severis]

In terms of Eunice's legacy, and I know we have to let you go in a second, but in terms of Eunice's legacy, I think one kind of complicating factor that you've talked about in terms of her life being kind of reclaimed as just as important as her family, especially as an overlooked woman. One complicating factor is, as we've sort of hinted at, some of her more conservative politics. I mean, she was. She was a pro life advocate and activist. I will say in her defense, the way she explains it is from a kind of pro disability stance. She is saying that abortion enables people to not have children with disabilities, and then that further stigmatizes people with intellectual disabilities. That's neither here nor there. My point is, how do you feel about her legacy more broadly and maybe even just within the disability community? Is she someone who is celebrated in the current disability rights movement? I know that the movement, as a movement, as we can even call it, one single monolithic thing, has changed a lot since, you know, since she founded the Special Olympics, for example. Do you have any sense of how she is remembered by contemporary activists?

[Eileen McNamara]

Well, first of all, on the abortion issue, you know, conservative, liberal, however you want to say it, she opposed abortion. Obviously, I found her completely consistent. I don't agree with her on that issue, but I find her completely consistent. She opposes the death penalty, too. She's a Catholic, so it isn't just that she's concerned about people with intellectual disabilities being aborted in utero. She thought that abortion was murder, and that's the teaching of the Catholic Church, and she accepted that teaching. So love her, hate her. You know, that's her faith, and that's what she believed in terms of the disability community. She was a woman of her time. Would we call it the Special Olympics now? No, they're not special like she. She called children with down syndrome her special friends. That's how we got the Special Olympics. Well, there's something inherently condescending in that, isn't there? And now in 1961, nobody said, oh, that's kind of condescending. You know, we've changed. We don't call it mental retardation anymore. Mental retardation wasn't a slur. It was the name of the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation. They dealt with these issues. It's the name of the legislation that jfk, the last bill he signed before he was assassinated was a bill that she drafted that provided federal money to deinstitutionalized children in the places. So society progresses, it changes. Intellectual disabilities isn't going to last either as a moniker for these children because it too is problematic. I don't know what the right raising is, but she did have a patronizing attitude. And, you know, why wouldn't she? She's a spoiled rich girl. That's who she was. She did wonderful things in her life, but she wasn't like, signing away her. Her fortunes to the disadvantage. She was as cheap as the other Kennedys. You know, she never had a nickel in her pocket. You know, she required whoever was with her to pay for her. So I don't know. I think the disability community embraces her because they understand that at that moment in time, she was a historical figure. She didn't discover this population. There were all these wonderful parents who were working really hard and doctors who were trying to convince parents, you don't have to institutionalize your kid. What she did was she recognized good ideas and then she stole them and she built on them. And because of her name and because her brother was the President of the United States and then the senator from New York and then the senator from Massachusetts, she was able to get stuff done. That's her legacy. So is she politically incorrect? In lots of ways, yeah. I mean, Tim Shriver led a campaign to stop the use of the R word, to turn the R word into a slur. And he was successful until the current administration, where now it's used constantly as a pejorative, and it seems to be working its way back into the general population. But society has swings and changes. I think on lots of issues, you know, she was not a visionary, but on the big issue, she was an enormous visionary.

[George Severis]

Well, I think that's a great place to end. We really want to thank you so much. This was such a. Such a great conversation, and we're very honored that you. That you took the time.

[Julia Claire]

Really incredible.

[Eileen McNamara]

Don't get carried away now.

[Julia Claire]

Okay, so that's it for this week's episode. Subscribe and follow United States of Kennedy for for all things Kennedy Every week, United States of Kennedy is hosted by me, Julia, Claire and George Severis.

[George Severis]

Original music by Joshua Topolsky Editing by Graham Gibson Mixing and mastering by Doug

[Julia Claire]

Boehm research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson.

[George Severis]

Our producer is Carmen Laurent.

[Julia Claire]

Our Executive producer is Jenna Cagle.

[George Severis]

Created by Lyra Smith.

[Julia Claire]

United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart podcasts.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Have you heard about Klarna? Klarna is an app designed to make everyday spending simpler and more transparent. It gives you flexibility to decide how you want to pay, whether that's paying right away, paying later, or spreading payments over time, depending on what works best for you. Everything is managed in the Klarna app so you can keep track of purchases and stay organized. You can also discover deals and even earn cash back when you shop through the Klarna app with participating brands. It's all about flexibility and staying in control of how and when you pay. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. Terms Apply California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback Points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Public Ad Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination and a whole lot of think we can't do that?

[Eileen McNamara]

Watch us.

[Public Ad Announcer]

They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible.

[Eileen McNamara]

We've all been there with doubters telling

[George Severis]

us what we can't do.

[Public Ad Announcer]

Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness. We just get things done. So go ahead and doubt me. Judge me, challenge me. But when the time comes, watch me.

[Julia Claire]

Bobcat if you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone.

[Eileen McNamara]

Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first

[Julia Claire]

all in one prescription Strength Bioidentical Hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop, 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again.

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

That's innerbalance.com There's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to make up that difference and close the gap between finding and owning the home for you. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. So when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it comes to making an offer. That means less watching great homes disappear and more focus on the one you'll call home. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get [e-mail] own the dream.

[Julia Claire]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[George Severis]

Your bill, ladies.

[Redfin Ad Announcer]

I got it.

[Julia Claire]

No, I got it.

[Eileen McNamara]

Seriously, I insist.

[Julia Claire]

I insisted first. Oh, don't be silly.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

You don't be silly.

[George Severis]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Eileen McNamara]

Rock, paper, scissors, Shilling. No. The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card.

[George Severis]

Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

[Julia Claire]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Klarna Ad Announcer]

Guaranteed Human.