United States of Kennedy — Film of the Month: Grey Gardens

Podcast: United States of Kennedy (iHeartPodcasts)
Hosts: Lyra Smith & George Civeris
Guest: Olivia Aylmer
Release Date: October 13, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the enduring fascination and cultural legacy of the 1975 documentary “Grey Gardens,” which captured the eccentric lives of Jackie Kennedy’s relatives—Big Edie and Little Edie Beale. The conversation centers on the film’s history, its place within the Kennedy mythos, its documentary innovations, and its continued influence in popular culture, especially on its 50th anniversary.

Episode Overview

The hosts and guest Olivia Aylmer (Senior Editor at the Slowdown) explore "Grey Gardens"—the groundbreaking documentary by the Maysles Brothers that portrayed the eccentric, reclusive lives of Edith "Big Edie" Bouvier Beale and her daughter Edith "Little Edie" Beale. The episode reflects on the film’s origins, documentary style, and controversial reception, as well as its queer and camp afterlives, resonance with viewers, and lingering questions about exploitation, fame, and self-invention in the shadow of Kennedys.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The Beales and Kennedy Ties

• Introduction of Film:

  • Grey Gardens (1975) by the Maysles Brothers follows Big Edie and Little Edie, Jackie Kennedy’s aunt and cousin, as they live in their decaying East Hampton mansion.
  • The film captures their unique relationship, their home’s extreme deterioration, and their resilience and eccentricity.
  • “Big Edie and Little Edie are Jackie O's aunt and cousin respectively…Little Edie was at JFK's inauguration in 1960.” (03:05–03:16)

• Descent into Scandal and Squalor:

  • After the family's finances wane, the house falls into severe disrepair, leading to local health inspections, tabloid attention, and eventual intervention by Jackie and Lee Radziwill.
  • “By 1971 [the house] was full of cats, infested by fleas and raccoons and deprived of running water.” (03:16–03:49)

The Documentary’s Origins & Evolution

• Media Spotlight and Intervention:

  • The Beales became public figures through major stories in New York Magazine and National Enquirer.
  • Jackie and Lee funded a clean-up so Edie and her mother could remain in the house.

• Maysles Brothers' Role:

  • Originally brought in by Lee Radziwill to document her own memories and summers; their focus shifted to the Beales themselves, who quickly eclipsed Lee as the stars.
  • “Their attention was nowhere else but them. Whatever vision Lee had…that was not the real story here. The real stars were emerging and it was these two women in this house.” (11:32–12:24)

• Documentary’s Premiere and Reception:

  • Premiered at Cannes (1976), then at the New York Film Festival to widespread acclaim—despite some critics finding it exploitative.
  • Sparked adaptations, drag interpretations, a Tony-winning musical, and even a Drew Barrymore/Jessica Lange film.

Personal Connections & First Impressions

• 50th Anniversary Screening:

  • Olivia attended a celebratory screening at Paris Theater with Julia Fox and fan attendees dressed in homage to Little Edie’s iconic style. (05:46–06:18)
  • “A crowd full of the ghosts of little Edie in their fabulous headscarves.” — Olivia Aylmer (06:09)

• Olivia’s Intro to Grey Gardens:

  • Saw the HBO adaptation first, then the original as a teen.
  • Her friend’s theatrical, encouraging dad used the film to inspire Olivia and her friend as “spirited young women who want to do things a little differently.” (07:43)
  • Both Olivia and George reflect on the film’s “cacophonous” quality and iconic “vocal stims” that stick with viewers.

Grey Gardens’ Impact on Documentary Film and Reality TV

• Documentary Innovation:

  • Grey Gardens was part of the cinéma vérité/direct cinema movement, presenting unvarnished slices of life without heavy-handed narrative, voiceover, or musical cues.
  • “Trying to capture what they were seeing before them. Not trying to set it up, but just letting these people tell us who they are.” — Olivia Aylmer (28:07)

• Proto-Reality TV:

  • The hosts draw a line from the Beales’ on-camera performativity to modern reality television, especially shows like The Real Housewives.
  • Noted irony: Carole Radziwill (Lee’s daughter-in-law) later herself becomes a Real Housewife. (10:27–10:57)
  • “You can find a path from Grey Gardens to what modern reality television looks and sounds like.” — Lyra Smith (10:27)

Controversy: Exploitation vs. Agency

• Reception and Debate:

  • At the time, the documentary style—and the spectacle of two ‘fallen’ aristocrats—was both engrossing and controversial, accused of being exploitative “tabloid fodder.”
  • “I’m not at all surprised that that debate was happening…what is the agency of the subjects in any sort of portrayal or documentation?” — Olivia Aylmer (36:26)

• Little Edie as a Performer:

  • The hosts and Olivia strongly argue for Little Edie’s agency—her awareness, joy in performing, and the nuance allowed in her portrayal:
    • “If we didn’t have Grey Gardens…the fact that we wouldn’t know them, that to me seems the bigger heartbreak.” (36:56)
    • Little Edie attended the New York Film Festival premiere and reveled in the attention, “throwing flowers into the crowd.” (36:56–38:09)

The Beales' Life, Dreams, and Trapped Freedoms

• Relationship to Their Home:

  • Deep ties to Grey Gardens mansion; loss of wealth; return of Little Edie after failed attempts to launch a performing career in New York.
  • Trap of class, gender roles, and family expectations:
    • “It’s also just her unwillingness to accept the path that was clearly laid out for her…she very well could have walked.” — Olivia Aylmer (40:00–41:07)

• Comparisons to Jackie & Lee:

  • All three (Big Edie, Little Edie, Lee) raised to ‘marry well.’
  • Little Edie rejected that future; Lee and Jackie outwardly complied, but with complications and heartbreak.

• The Theme of Freedom:

  • A poignant segment on Little Edie’s quotes about freedom and independence, contrasted with the reality of her dependence.
    • “I like freedom.”
      — Little Edie
    • “Well, you can’t get any, darling. You’re being supported. You can’t get any freedom when you’re being supported.”
      — Big Edie (56:39–56:58)
    • “You’re not free when you’re not being supported. It’s awful both ways.” — Little Edie (57:03)

Iconography and Cultural Legacy

• Fashion and Gay Icons:

  • Little Edie's “costume” approach to fashion makes her a queer and drag icon, as does her ability to “elevate” herself despite adversity.
  • “She is using what she has at her disposal, which is way less wealth and…way less access to designer clothes than Jackie has…But every time she’s on camera, she makes sure to have her head covered. She’s making very interesting choices.” — George Civeris (45:01–46:30)
  • Drag and parody: Introduced by drag queens, endlessly referenced (Drag Race, Fred Armisen/Bill Hader, etc.).

• Universality and Relatability:

  • Despite their unique circumstances, the Beales’ family dynamic, fierce independence, and disputes are deeply familiar and relatable.
  • “There’s family dynamics that are so universal playing out here.” — Olivia Aylmer (54:49–56:00)
  • Julia Fox’s insight at the anniversary screening: It’s the moment of sweetness after cattiness that feels especially real.

• Enduring Impact:

  • The hosts and Olivia agree the film is a “time capsule” that will continue to resonate for another 50 years.
    • “To me, that is the legacy. It’s the fact that their legend was born on screen through this movie, but it's one that keeps finding people.” — Olivia Aylmer (56:00)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Little Edie’s Enduring Lines

• “I like freedom.” “Well, you can't get any, darling. You're being supported. Can't get any freedom when you're being supported.” “You're not free when you're not being supported. It's awful both ways.” (56:39–57:03)

Big Edie’s Wisdom

• “No, I'm glad he is. I'm glad somebody's doing something he wanted to do.” — Big Edie, wryly commenting as a cat urinates behind her portrait (58:37–59:12)

On Style

• “She’s dressing for the life she wants, not for the surroundings she has…Little Edie is dressing in a way that, like, the camera can’t turn away from her.” — Olivia Aylmer (47:08)

On Performance and Legacy

• “If we didn’t have Grey Gardens…the fact that we wouldn’t know them, that to me seems the bigger heartbreak, disappointment.” — Olivia Aylmer (36:56)
• “She actually is allowed to be a very complex figure on camera. And I think she could so easily have been just caricatured. But the quotes that you get from her actually paint a pretty complicated picture.” — George Civeris (39:20)

Cultural Resonance

• “If I had made a different decision…if I hadn't gone to the audition, what would my life be? And there's this poetry, like an internal poetry to the film that…is why I really do think we'll be watching it for the next 50 years.” — Olivia Aylmer (55:15–56:00)

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Background & Kennedy Connection: 02:55–04:14
• Olivia’s 50th Anniversary Screening Recap: 05:46–06:18
• Personal Grey Gardens Discovery Story: 06:37–07:40
• Reality TV Influence / Radziwill Connection: 10:27–10:57
• Fashion, Drag, and Gay Icon Status: 45:01–47:08
• Debate on Exploitation, Little Edie's Agency: 36:04–38:09
• Theme of Freedom Conversation: 56:39–57:21
• Garbo at Paris anecdote: 62:03–63:26

Listener Takeaways

• Grey Gardens endures because it operates as both an anthropological document and a camp, queer touchstone; it’s a film about performance, family, and self-invention within collapse.
• The Beales’ ability to persevere and create meaning, even from isolation and squalor, is both inspiring and poignant—and never without complexity.
• The film profoundly influenced both the language and style of reality-based, character-driven storytelling.
• Its legacy as a litmus test—a “fun house mirror”—reflects back the preoccupations of whatever audience watches it, whether those are about gender, class, family, performance, or the longing for freedom.

Further Research & Lasting Questions

• Jackie and Lee’s public statements on the film and their evolving relationships with Big and Little Edie remain largely unchronicled.
• The history and contributions of all filmmakers (including Muffy Meyer and Ellen Hovde) deserve greater recognition.
• The Beales’ story continues to attract new generations—witnessed most recently at the 50th anniversary event, with new viewers and super-fans alike drawn by the film’s unique alchemy of pathos, humor, and individuality.

Closing Reflection:
Grey Gardens—like the Beales themselves—remains uncategorizable: tragic and comic, glamorous and dilapidated, self-aware and unaware, ahead of its time and out of time. Its impact is only growing, as viewers and artists continue to find new truths within its “perpetual present.”