Film of the month: The House of Yes (1997)

Summary

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United States of Kennedy – Film of the Month: The House of Yes (1997)

Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: George Civeris, Julia Claire
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode of United States of Kennedy takes a break from the often-heavy history of the Kennedy dynasty and dives into the 1997 cult dark comedy film The House of Yes. Rather than a direct biography, this movie hints at the Kennedys through its campy, provocative use of Jacqueline Kennedy iconography and a chillingly dysfunctional family dynamic. The hosts dissect the film’s offbeat style, its infamous twisted plotline, and the way American culture processes and mythologizes both celebrity and tragedy—Kennedy-style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why This Film?

• Lightening the Mood:
  After two serious episodes, the hosts wanted something less intense but still connected to Kennedy fandom and American culture.
  “We thought it might be good to give everyone a break with something light…That’s why we are talking about the 1997 cult classic dark comedy The House of Yes.” (03:29, George Severis)
• Cast & Crew:
  Features Parker Posey, Freddie Prinze Jr., Tori Spelling, and Rachel Leigh Cook. Directed by Mark Waters, best known for Mean Girls and Freaky Friday. This was his directorial debut. (03:50–04:05)

The House of Yes: Plot & Performances

• Set mostly over Thanksgiving in a Virginia mansion, the film explores the twisted relationships between twins Jackie O (Parker Posey) and Marty (Josh Hamilton), their brother (Freddie Prinze Jr.), and Marty’s fiancée (Tori Spelling).

• Cult Status, Box Office Bomb:
  Though a financial flop, Posey’s performance drew special recognition at Sundance. The Razzie nomination of Tori Spelling (whose father allegedly financed the film) is humorously discussed.
  “Nepotism can only get you so far, which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about the Kennedys.” (04:40, George Severis)

• Kennedy Connection:
  The film bookends with authentic footage of Jackie Kennedy giving the White House tour, intercut with Rachel Leigh Cook in the iconic pink suit.
  “The film opens and closes with real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at the White House... and you’re like, where is this going?” (05:37, Julia Claire)

Iconography & Satire

• Jackie O Obsession:
  Posey's character’s name comes from her teenage habit of dressing as post-assassination Jackie Kennedy for an Ides of March party—evoking the nation’s celebrity-worship and trauma fixation.
  “She clearly has some attachment to the Jackie O iconography and the JFK assassination iconography that will be explored further in the film.” (07:37, George Severis)
• Mental Illness in the ’90s:
  The hosts critique the period’s handling of mental illness as comedic fodder and how those jokes have aged.
  “Mental illness in this film is treated in the way only a 1997 comedy can treat it... I would call it a running gag.” (09:24–09:33, Julia Claire & George Severis)

The Twins, Incest, and Twisted Family

• The film is infamous for its incest plotline, used both as a central shock value and as a lens for American dysfunction.
  “Why did a dark comedy about incest and twincest, starring a bunch of up and coming Hollywood stars, bomb at the box (office) despite everyone’s best efforts?” (09:08, George Severis)
• Key Scene:
  The twins’ sexual relationship involves reenacting the Kennedy assassination as foreplay, linking personal perversion to national trauma.
  “As a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out the Kennedy assassination…then the fireworks would start.” (20:28–20:30, George Severis & Julia Claire)

Performances—A Showcase for Parker Posey

• Posey’s turn as Jackie O is lauded as definitive, balancing camp, darkness, and comedic timing:
  • “There’s something about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posey performance…the campiness, the fact that she doesn’t care what anyone else is doing.” (11:56, George Severis)
  • Notable Quotes:
    • “If people are going to start telling the truth, I’m going to go to bed.” (12:34, Parker Posey as Jackie O)
    • “Don’t be so bourgeois.” (12:51, Parker Posey as Jackie O)
    • “Yesterday was 24 whole hours.” (39:20, Parker Posey as Jackie O)
  • Posey’s delivery draws laughter and admiration from the hosts throughout.

Thematic Depth: America’s Morbid Fascination

• The hosts compare the Kennedy assassination’s cultural imprint to later media events, like 9/11, noting how such traumas become sites of collective and personal obsession—even eroticized or commodified in art.
  • “This is an interesting commentary about the traumatic nature of big media events…these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid fervor actually hide something darker in us.” (32:58–34:31, George Severis)
  • “We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and we do keep returning to the source material in a way that...I don’t know.” (34:46, Julia Claire)
• Also, the Kennedy family is framed as America’s first true “celebrity politicians,” with Jackie O’s image standing in for a kind of glamorized dysfunction many try to emulate.
  • “This was one of the first instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the way we think of now…She really is, like, a celebrity.” (36:49, George Severis)

Production, Style, and Cultural Legacy

• The hosts reminisce about discovering the film in video stores and its “John Waters energy”—delightfully trashy yet clever and subversive.
  • “It’s kind of like, written by and for like smart gay people. And I remember having the thought, like, I’m not old enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can’t wait until I am.” (27:10, George Severis)
• Strong nostalgia for ‘90s American indie film, the “big swings” and contained, dialogue-heavy settings, play-like pacing, and all-in performances.
  • “It’s almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something in…a black box theater...and so it really did make me nostalgic for that era and the big swings of it.” (25:58, George Severis)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 04:40 | George Severis | “Nepotism can only get you so far, which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about the Kennedys.” | | 07:37 | George Severis | “She clearly has some attachment to the Jackie O iconography and the JFK assassination iconography that will be explored further in the film.” | | 09:24 | Julia Claire | “Mental illness in this film is treated in the way only a 1997 comedy can treat it… I would call it a running gag.” | | 12:34 | Julia Claire quoting movie | “If people are going to start telling the truth, I’m going to go to bed.” | | 12:51 | Julia Claire recalling | “Don’t be so bourgeois.” | | 20:28 | George Severis | “As a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out the Kennedy assassination…then the fireworks would start.” | | 30:20 | George Severis | “It’s kind of like, written by and for like smart gay people. And I really remember having the thought, like, I’m not old enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can’t wait until I am.” | | 34:31 | George Severis | “These nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid fervor actually hide something darker in us.” | | 39:20 | Parker Posey / George | “Yesterday was 24 whole hours.” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Kennedy Connections & Jackie O Iconography – 05:37–07:37
• Mental Illness and ‘90s Comedy Tropes – 09:24–09:42
• Explaining the Twincest Plot & Kennedy Assassination Reenactments – 20:28–21:22
• Parker Posey’s Quippy Lines (with examples) – 12:34, 39:20
• Cultural Analysis: American Trauma & Media Morbidity – 32:58–36:15
• Nostalgia for ‘90s Indie Film, John Waters Vibe – 25:36–27:20
• Final Thoughts & Recommendations – 39:56–40:35
• Kennedy Myth Reinterpretation in Pop Culture – 41:39–43:07

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Hosts’ Final Takeaways & Recommendations

• Would You Watch Again?
  • George found it improved on a second viewing, appreciating the performances and writing more when forewarned about the film’s weirdness.
  • Julia confesses it felt long, even at 80 minutes, but suggests it would be more enjoyable as a group watch for its communal “did that just happen?” reactions.
• For Parker Posey Fans:
  • “If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie… It is kind of a showcase for her to be as deranged.” (39:32, Julia Claire)
• Viewing Advice:
  • “Get a group of friends together, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out some hors d’oeuvres, make sure the oven is working… and just have a ball.” (40:09, George Severis)
  • Enthusiastic “one thumb up, one thumb down, but we’re not sure whose thumb is which.” (40:27–40:35)

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Broader Themes & Kennedy Mythology

• The episode closes reflecting on the persistent cultural recycling of Kennedy iconography, from earnest biopics to twisted cult comedies like this one—and onward to present day Halloween costumes and future Ryan Murphy TV shows.
• The hosts maintain their trademark irreverent, sharp-witted style, refusing to treat Kennedy material with unwarranted seriousness, but always connecting back to America’s uneasy mixture of admiration and morbid curiosity.

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For listeners new and old:
You don’t need to have seen The House of Yes to enjoy this episode. George and Julia offer laughs, thoughtful (and at times wild) analysis, and a window into both Kennedy myth and the odd places culture takes it. If you’re a fan of dark comedy, indie film, or simply America’s strangest obsessions, this episode is a must.

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Transcript

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[George Severis]

I'm George Severis.

[Julia Claire]

And I'm Julia Claire and this is.

[George Severis]

United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week we go into one aspect of the Kennedy story and today, after two pretty serious episodes, we thought it might be good to give everyone a break with something light. Which is why we are Talking about the 1997 cult classic Dark comedy the House of Yes.

[Julia Claire]

The film is starring a who's who of late 90s young stars including Parker Posey, Freddie Prinze Jr. Tori Spelling, and even a bizarre cameo from Rachel Leigh Cook.

[George Severis]

Shout out to Rachel Leigh Cook. We love you on this podcast.

[Julia Claire]

We love you.

[George Severis]

It is directed by Mark Waters, who if you don't recognize the name, he went on to direct such true classics of our youth as Mean Girls and Freaky Friday. But this was his directorial debut. So this was a classic late Sundance movie. It is a pitch black comedy about two twins with a dark secret.

[Julia Claire]

If you've ever seen the film, you probably won't be surprised to learn that it was a box office bomb and got mixed reviews. But Parker Posey won a special recognition for acting award at Sundance. Unfortunately, Tori Spelling did receive a Razzie nomination for her performance.

[George Severis]

And listen, I obviously do write to the Razzies every year trying to contest their decision, but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I will say she got that Razzie nomination that her father reportedly financed the whole film. So nepotism can only get you so far, which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about the Kennedys. Shout out to Jack Schlossberg's Congressional Run Yes. So a review in Entertainment Weekly that we found says the House of Yes is knowingly overripe. A Kitsch melodrama that dares to make incest sexy. And I just want to say, it is about.

[Julia Claire]

It's about damn time.

[George Severis]

It's about time an American film director dared to make incest sexy. So that's the house of. Yes. And before we get into it, you might be wondering, hearing us gab about this Parker Posey film. We're talking Tori Spelling's Razzie. We're talking incest, we're talking twins. You might be wondering, what does any of this have to do with the Kennedys?

[Julia Claire]

Well, we'll tell you. The film opens and closes with real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at the White House. And it's interspliced with a young Rachel Leigh Cook spinning around in the very famous pink pillbox hat Chanel suit. And you're like, where is this going?

[George Severis]

Right. So it's the archival footage of Jackie. I have to say, at this point, having done this podcast for so many months, I've seen that footage so many times, and each time I'm again blown away by the sheer physics of her hair.

[Julia Claire]

Yes.

[George Severis]

It really looks like a plastic paper mache hat, I would say, that was placed on top of her head.

[Julia Claire]

That's why the ozone layer became so big.

[George Severis]

That's right.

[Julia Claire]

Because every woman in America, their hair didn't move.

[George Severis]

Yeah. No. People say the Kennedys are so influential, they're also the cause of climate change.

[Julia Claire]

That's right.

[George Severis]

Which RFK then tried to stop, but he got distracted by vaccines. So there are pluses and minuses. There are highs and lows of this family.

[Julia Claire]

It's a who's who of major world problems.

[George Severis]

That's right, exactly. Incest, Climate change. Well, climate change is in fact made literal in the film because it takes place during this big storm, a hurricane. So the movie opens with archival footage of Jackie giving the famous White House tour and a young Rachel Leigh Cook, who plays in the film, a young Parker Posey.

[Julia Claire]

And the character's name is Jackie O.

[George Severis]

And that is what everyone calls her. And we learn pretty early on that it's because she went to a party.

[Julia Claire]

What kind of party did she go to? An Ides of March party. Yes.

[George Severis]

Thank you.

[Julia Claire]

I mean, I think it's just our party on March 14th.

[George Severis]

Got it. Okay. And so she went to an Ides of March party dressed as Jackie O. Specifically post assassination, AKA she had, like, blood and brains on her, which I just want to quickly shout out, you know, my dear friend who I've never met, Julia Fox, who had that exact Same costume for this year's Halloween.

[Julia Claire]

Right. And Julia, your email is out from the pod. We want you to come on.

[George Severis]

I would absolutely. You know, Julia Fox has actually been mentioned before on this podcast about Gray Gardens, the documentary. And Julia Fox actually introduced the 50th anniversary screening of Gray Gardens and talked about how influential it was to her incredible comedic sensibility. So I think she is just like a big fan of the Kennedys more broadly. So she's always welcome on the pod. But yeah, so basically, Jackie O went to this Ides of March party as a teen dressed as actual Jackie O in this pink Chanel suit. And she clearly has some attachment to the Jackie O iconography and the JFK assassination iconography that will be explored further in the film.

[Julia Claire]

Right. And it's made clear very early in the film that Jackie O, the character, is deeply mentally ill and is on various pills and lives in this grand mansion in Virginia with her cold and distant mother and her weird younger brother, played expertly by Freddie Prinze Jr. That's great.

[George Severis]

And one of his first roles. One of the things that the Wikipedia says, you know, not to out myself as having done Wikipedia research, is that Freddie Prinze Jr. Shot in quick succession, this film and I Know what yout Did Last Summer.

[Julia Claire]

Wow.

[George Severis]

And then I know what you did last Summer was, of course, his big breakout. So then his rising fame, you know, I was about to say helped this movie, but in fact it didn't because this movie ended up bombing in the box office. But yes.

[Julia Claire]

And you know, if you've seen this movie, you gotta wonder why. Why would this movie bomb?

[George Severis]

I know why did a dark comedy about incest and twincest, starring a bunch of up and coming Hollywood stars, bomb at the box despite everyone's best efforts? I have to say this is a great Parker Posey performance which we will get into.

[Julia Claire]

She's incred.

[George Severis]

So, yes, mental illness in this film is treated in the way only a 1997 comedy can treat it.

[Julia Claire]

I would call it a running gag.

[George Severis]

Yes, yes, yes. The famous running gag of this woman's on pills. It was a real classic in the late 90s.

[Julia Claire]

And this one's just a little extra crazy.

[George Severis]

Yes. The undercurrent of the movie, of course, is that all women are mentally ill. Jackie O, played by Parker Posey, her brother, played by Freddie Prinze Jr. And their mother are waiting for Jackie O's twin brother. There's three kids in the family to come visit for Thanksgiving.

[Julia Claire]

Yes. And if you've heard our Description so far. I know what you're thinking. A classic Thanksgiving film.

[George Severis]

Is this the family stone? Is this Pieces of April?

[Julia Claire]

Planes, Trains and Automobiles?

[George Severis]

Come on, this is a fun one to watch with the whole family. Maybe your parents. You have your Thanksgiving leftovers. You have your stuffing and turkey sandwich. You're saying, God, I'm in the mood for something cozy.

[Julia Claire]

And it takes place during a storm. There's candlelight.

[George Severis]

Exactly.

[Julia Claire]

It is cozy.

[George Severis]

No, it is cozy. So then what happens, Julia? The brother arrives.

[Julia Claire]

The brother arrives and he has a quote unquote friend in tow. And it turns out to be his fiance, played by Tori Spelling.

[George Severis]

The one and only Tori Spelling. I said, hello, queen. It is so good to see you.

[Julia Claire]

Missed you, girl.

[George Severis]

So, okay, Tori Spelling is playing this, like, there's a real kind of Madonna whore thing happening with Tori Spelling on the one side and, you know, nymphomaniac twin cessed enthusiast park Rupert on the other side, so. That's right, Tori. Tori Spelling is playing this, like, innocent blonde, you know, grew up working class and now works at a donut shop and just wants to get married and lead a middle class.

[Julia Claire]

Pennsylvania.

[George Severis]

She's from Pennsylvania. Which Pennsylvania in this movie is used as a slur. I'll say it. It's literally like. Like you're from Pennsylvania. Oh, sorry, sweetie. Are you okay?

[Julia Claire]

Oh, yeah, yeah. What's the line? That's like, Pennsylvania is a place that's just in your way when you're trying to get somewhere else.

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, and then Bargo Posey is like, I've never met anyone who's been from Pennsylvania. So. Okay, I think Tori Spelling is doing a passable job here. Julia, something tells you you like this movie less than I did. What did you think of Tori Spelling's performance?

[Julia Claire]

I mean, this whole movie is front to back insane. Kook City, usa. There were parts of it that were really fun. There was some really fun lines. All the most fun lines are delivered by Parker Posey, who is. It's impossible for her to give a bad performance. She is so funny. This is a role she was born to play.

[George Severis]

It sort of invented. Parker Posey.

[Julia Claire]

Yes.

[George Severis]

She's been in other stuff before, and this was probably like four or five years into her career as a buzzy young actress. But there's something about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posey performance. Like the combination of complete pitch black delivery, the campiness, the fact that she doesn't care what anyone else is doing. She is there to deliver the line and she's like, basically in different movie than everyone else.

[Julia Claire]

Yes. In a better movie.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. She's amazing. I love. There were again a number of lines that really made me laugh that she delivered. Like, oh, if we're all going to start telling the truth, I'm going to bed.

[George Severis]

I mean, yes, that is one of the most incredible lines in the movie. And that is when she is accused of being spoiled. Like she. She says something and then Tori Spelling is like, well, I just think you're spoiled and you think this is going to be some big fight. And she goes, if people are going to start telling the truth, I'm going to go to bed. I mean.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. When Freddie Prinze Jr. Is accusingly probing her about having an incestuous relationship with her twin brother, she goes, don't be so bourgeois.

[George Severis]

This is based on a play, we should say. And it's sort of like adapting, which I can't believe. It almost did make more sense to me somehow because I'm like, oh, yes. I could see like off off Broadway audiences being like, well, that was a gas. Like an incest movie about the Kennedys. And there is something very intentionally claustrophobic about it. I mean, they're in the same house. The who? It's very quippy and dialogue heavy. I mean, there's one sequence where it goes, are you being wise? And then Jackie O goes, one day I woke up wise. And he goes, one day I woke up stupid. And she goes, what did you do? He goes, I went back to bed. She goes, that was wise. Like, it's so. It's so like quippy and almost sitcom meets off Broadway play.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, meets classic Hollywood comedy like Bringing.

[George Severis]

Up Baby or something.

[Julia Claire]

We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break.

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[Julia Claire]

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

[George Severis]

So, okay, the brother arrives with the girlfriend. It is immediately announced that they are engaged. And you can tell that from the moment that is revealed, Jackie O.

[Julia Claire]

Is pissed because she lets out a scream.

[George Severis]

Yes. Another like incredible Parker Posey moment. Or you know, all the script said was like, haha. And she's like, got it. I'm gonna like scream at the top of my lungs, turn it into laughter and then like ad lib the next line.

[Julia Claire]

And it's gonna last for three minutes.

[George Severis]

Yes. Over the course of this night, the tensions are rising. It's slowly revealed that the twins have this prior romantic relationship.

[Julia Claire]

A very long lasting romantic sexual relationship.

[George Severis]

Yes, romantic sexual relationship.

[Julia Claire]

Part of the reason we find out that Parker Posey was institutionalized and why she's on all these crazy meds.

[George Severis]

She was institutionalized. Meanwhile, he was able to move to New York. He's totally fine. He's dating a donut shop girl.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. Smells like powdered sugar, right?

[George Severis]

Yeah, but you can't marry a girl who smells like powdered sugar. Another amazing Lyme. And then, by the way, this relationship started from the womb because as the mother informs us, they were born with Jackie O. Holding Marty's penis. The doctor said it had never been receded before.

[Julia Claire]

They're in a bunch of medical textbooks.

[George Severis]

So Julia, would you like to explain to our listeners what the twins relationship to the Kennedy assassination is?

[Julia Claire]

No, I would not.

[George Severis]

So basically this movie is set in the 80s, so it's supposed to be like 20 or so years after the assassination.

[Julia Claire]

It's supposed to be exactly 20 years from the assassination.

[George Severis]

20 years from the assassination. And she obviously is obsessed with Jackie O. She's like doing this almost like Jackie O drag with the preppy dress and the pearls, the outfit, the hair. The hair. Even the way she talks sometimes becomes sort of like mid Atlantic in this kind of funny way. And basically what we come to realize is that as a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out the Kennedy assassination. And so she would have a gun loaded with blanks, pretend to shoot him, and then as Jackie would like take him into her arms and kind of, you know, hide his head in her bosom. As the same way Jackie did in her memory when the assassination happened.

[Julia Claire]

And then the fireworks would start.

[George Severis]

That's right. You know, I didn't want to give it all away, but, yes, it was, as I said, a form of foreplay. So obviously a bunch of other stuff happens. You know, the Tori Spelling slowly finds out what she's gotten herself into. She's obviously very freaked out about it because she is normal, not the stigmatized twincest the mom is, in her own weird way, both obviously disapproving of the twincest, but also encouraging it because she thinks that his sister is the only woman that is good enough for him. That is good enough for him. For him. Then through a series of machinations, Freddie Prinze Jr. Who plays the kind of awkward young brother, ends up seducing Tori Spelling. And she and her kind of chaotic confusion, in the midst of finding out this dark secret about her fiance, sleeps with his brother. Then that is used to blackmail her and turn Marty against her.

[Julia Claire]

And pretty much it looks like maybe because Marty and jackio have rekindled their romance.

[George Severis]

That's Marty is their brother, played by Josh Hamilton.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, they've rekindled their romance. So Jackie O Thinks he'll stay this time. He won't leave. And then there's a big climactic scene.

[George Severis]

And basically the final dilemma that Marty, who is the brother that is choosing between his girlfriend and his sister, the final dilemma that he has is, is he gonna go back to New York with Tori Spelling and continue their wonderful life of living in the West Village and reading the newspaper every day and taking baths together? Or is he go stay home and in the words of Tori Spelling, have children with webbed feet that they can bury in the backyard? Another really wonderful image from this film. And so he sort of is about to leave with Torri Spelling. And then Jackie O says, can we do it one last time? Meaning do the reenactment of the assassination one last time? And he says, yes. And then we are led to believe that the gun is in fact loaded this time, AKA she kills him. And then in the final scenes, we see Tori Spelling running out of the house. I can't remember if she's covered in blood or if.

[Julia Claire]

No, she's not.

[George Severis]

She's leaving the house, like, freaked out because her fiance was just murdered in front of her by his sister. Ex. And then the final scenes, we go back to the sort of flashbacks where Rachel Leigh Cook is playing young Jackie, and it just shows their first encounters. So, folks, that's the Plot of the House of Yes.

[Julia Claire]

And as we said, it's a movie for the whole family.

[George Severis]

You know, obviously, it's not for the faint of heart, but if you gotten this far listening to a podcast about the Kennedys, you know, I hate to say we've discussed much worse things than, you know, safely contained twin cest in a Virginia suburb.

[Julia Claire]

It is really no worse than what the Kennedys themselves have done.

[George Severis]

I mean, that's why I was like, okay, we need a light episode after Tuesday. I mean, we've talked about a brutal murder. We've talked about botched military operation that killed hundreds of people. We've talked about just horrible trials and miscarriages of justice. We've talked about RFK Jr. Making sure all of us get measles and mumps. But first of all, I would love to know your thoughts about this movie. Did you have any history with it? Did you know anything about it going in?

[Julia Claire]

I didn't know anything about it. I realized that I had seen the movie poster before. I had definitely seen it. I don't know if it was. I'm sure that it was in the Parker Posey Collection on Criterion or something like that. And I had definitely seen the movie poster, but I had no conception of what it was. I watched the trailer and I said, well, this movie looks. Looks insane. And I'm glad I watched the trailer, because I think I would have been in for a rude awakening if I had really gone in totally cold. But there were definitely some really funny, stupid parts. But it felt long. It's like an hour and 20 minutes. And it felt long.

[George Severis]

Yeah, you're just waiting for the finale to happen the entire time. And it's funny. I actually. I had watched it four months ago, and when I suggested doing it for this episode, I had the dilemma of, like, do I rewatch it, or do I just read the Wikipedia and remember what I watched four months ago? I'm glad I rewatched it because I had honestly forgotten a lot of the different plot points. But there was a part of me that was like, is this the movie I want to watch twice in four months? That said, I have to say, I weirdly enjoyed it more the second time, I think, because when you know what it is, it's almost like taking the first sip of wine, and it's like bursting in your mouth. And then with the second sip, you get all the nuances. I feel like with my first watch, I was like, wow, okay, so this is really just about incest. And then with the second watch, Knowing that going in, I was able to appreciate the performances more and appreciate the writing more. And I totally see what you're saying about it being like a long hour and 20 minutes, but there's something about the quippiness of it. And it was contained. It also really just made me nostalgic for a different era of American indie film. Like, just the fact that this movie was at Sundance. It had the stunt casting with Tori Spelling. It was kind of banking on these, like, semi unknown stars. Then it was a hit with, like, the kooky people that would go to Sundance in 1997. So then it got picked up, by the way, produced by Miramax. So. Thank you, Harvey Weinstein.

[Julia Claire]

Thank you, Harvey Weinstein. As always, amazing contribution. And I know we say it every episode, but thank you. Thank you, Harvey.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly. Have you ever seen the Day Trippers?

[Julia Claire]

I was just gonna say, you know, Parker Posey had this run in the 90s of, like, party Girl, the Day Trippers, all these great. I mean, even Dazed and Confused was not like a big budget film at all. And they just aren't making movies like that anymore.

[George Severis]

Yeah, there's just something about this sort of, like, low budget. It's almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something in, like a black box theater or something. And so it really did make me nostalgic for that era and the big swings of it. I was kind of loving the second time around. I do want to talk about the poster a little bit, because literally, the poster for me was such a clear memory. Seeing it at Blockbuster and being like. I think it might have been the first time I ever saw a depiction of Jackie Kennedy in that dress. Like, I think that was my first reference.

[Julia Claire]

Oh, that's funny.

[George Severis]

In the same way that, like, I bet you for some people that was like Marge Simpson in the suit. And they were like, who? You know, like. Cause I hadn't seen, you know, again, not to age myself, but 1997, I was very young. I had not seen archival footage of the Kennedy. And so I think I was like, so what is this pink suit? And then, you know, you sort of start seeing it around in pop culture, and obviously you connect the dots, but there was something about it that was so appealing to me. The COVID of her holding the gun behind her back and also smiling to camera. It's the same way I felt the first time I became aware of John Waters. I was like, oh, this is a sensibility I'm interested in. Like, whatever is happening here. There is this twisted sense of humor and it's happening with a wink. And it's kind of like written by and for like smart gay people. And I'm like, God, like, I want to be part of that club. Like that. And I really remember having the thought, like, I'm not old enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can't wait until I am.

[Julia Claire]

So sweet. And that's.

[George Severis]

It's a very childlike memory.

[Julia Claire]

No, it is. It's such a visceral kind of memory. But yeah, I was going to say too. I think it's a very John Waters esque movie.

[George Severis]

It feels almost like. Have you ever seen Serial Mom?

[Julia Claire]

No.

[George Severis]

Serial mom was like his first foray into trying to be a little more mainstream. And it's. Kathleen Turner plays a mom who starts murdering people. So she's like a serial killer mom. And it's this halfway point between true, like trash B movie and like mainstream Hollywood movie. So, you know, you get Kathleen Turner. She's obviously a big bankable star. It is, you know, a broad comedy, but she's also murdering people. And that's kind of what this is like. It's no coincidence that it became over the years a cult classic because it's sort of like it's built to be that it's not gonna actually be the movie that like makes Freddie Prinze Jr. Famous.

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[Julia Claire]

I could see this being really fun to put on at a party or something like that.

[George Severis]

Exactly.

[Julia Claire]

And just for some context, the sickos own letterbox love this movie.

[George Severis]

I'm sure.

[Julia Claire]

I'm sure they love it. I can see why. Honestly, it is fun. And I think that part of the reason why my viewing experience was maybe like less fun than I wanted it to be is just because I was watching it by myself. And part of that is you just want somebody to be able to turn to and be like, what?

[George Severis]

Yeah, are we watching this?

[Julia Claire]

Folks?

[George Severis]

We're gonna take a short break. Stay with us.

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[Amazon Five Star Theater Narrator]

Star Theater presents real customer reviews performed by a real serious improv podcaster. Tonight's Spatula for the Stars. When I'm dead and civilization eventually collapses, this spatula will remain. It will be the only rune uncovered by some unknown species of the future upon which they base their assumptions of our existence. Eggs they Reposit these extinct people like to eat their eggs scrambled, omeletted and fried. They love to eat eggs and this was their primary tool for cooking the now come. Let us teleport to the Intergalactic Museum and put this device in the Milky Way exhibit. 5 stars Zachary thank you for listening to Amazon 5 star theater. A spatula of such enduring majesty. Truly the perfect gift for my co hosts. May they wield it nobly in the breakfast wars to come. Find your perfect gift this holiday on Amazon.

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[Julia Claire]

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

[George Severis]

So we are ostensibly supposed to be talking about the Kennedys. I want to get into what the Kennedy reference could possibly mean, because this is another thing I found myself thinking way more in my second viewing. This is an interesting commentary about the traumatic nature of big media events. Like, I'm thinking in terms of, like, for our generation, the equivalent would have been, obviously, watching 911 footage on TV.

[Julia Claire]

Which we don't remember because we're so young.

[George Severis]

But it is, you know, the effect that a huge media event that happens when you are, like, between the ages of, you know, 6 and 15, what that does to you psychologically? Because I think.

[Julia Claire]

I mean, they mention it in the film. They say everyone remembers where they were. And that's what my parents say about it as well. Yeah.

[George Severis]

And it's like the fact that for them, it's. It also becomes perverse and sexual is this other sort of fascinating thing. Like, it reminded me of David Cronenberg's Crash, where people are like, their kink is car crashes. I see the intelligent commentary hidden under, you know, a Tori Spelling movie where I'm like, wow, this is kind of like a. A very provocative thing to be saying that, like, these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid fervor actually hide something darker in us. That's like a desire for something so perverted and forbidden or something. I mean, it is like the perverted human instinct to look back at a car crash. You know, the famous thing, like, if you pass a car crash, you're gonna look back at it.

[Julia Claire]

I actually think there's really something to that analysis, because how many times do we watch, I mean, even those of us who were not born, how many times have we all watched throughout the years, the footage from Dallas?

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Julia Claire]

We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and we do keep returning to the source material in a way that. I don't know.

[George Severis]

No, I think there was some other movie that is alluding to the Zapruder tape the entire time, and then at some point actually shows it. And it's honestly the same kind of sense you get where there's, like, an Especially pornographic scene in a movie, and you're like, oh, my God, I'm not supposed to be looking at this.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Obviously the. The reaction is different, but the valence is similar of this weird excitement at seeing something that is supposed to be forbidden.

[Julia Claire]

Well, the most recent example of that was the Charlie Kirk footage, which it was getting passed around like crazy. And when I saw the footage, I audibly gasped. I don't know how you wouldn't.

[George Severis]

I remember the first round of people being like, oh, God, I saw it. Oh, God, I saw it. And I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna avoid it. I'm not gonna seek it out. And of course, within 30 seconds, when I was on Twitter or something, it wasn't getting censored. And this is the case with all these things. There's the initial shock of seeing something so awful reaction to seeing it 15 more times. Like, first you get the shock, and then you are almost surprised with how much you slowly get used to it.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, the desensitizing.

[George Severis]

Yeah, the desensitizing. I think it was clearly a very provocative thing to place at the center of such a movie. But I did find it to be kind of a fascinating portrait of an American family. Family in freefall or something. It's almost like this act of violence took away the innocence of the American household.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. And then at the end, it's kind of obliquely revealed that the mom killed their dad and buried him in the backyard, and that's where all the children with the webbed feet are gonna go.

[George Severis]

Yes. Yes. The more structural violence around us is kind of reflected in each household in this rich Virginia suburb.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. What a kooky movie.

[George Severis]

It's really something.

[Julia Claire]

But I do think that in terms of someone for a mentally ill rich woman to emulate or be obsessed with, it was. Of course, it was Jackie O.

[George Severis]

Well, that's the other thing. Yes, and thank you for bringing that up, because another kind of element of the Kennedy thing is this was one of the first instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the way that we think of now. When you think of how Michelle Obama is treated when she goes on a big book tour, she might as well be Lady Gaga or Beyonce or Meryl Streep or something. Like, she really is, like, a celebrity. She's putting out a whole book right now that's about her style. It's not about politics or what she hopes for America, although I guess she does hope everyone looks fabulous. So I do think that that is also kind of an interesting element of it like you think of a young woman being obsessed with Madonna or being obsessed with an actress or something.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. If this was 1983, it's just a little odd.

[George Severis]

Yes, totally.

[Julia Claire]

She would be so obsessed with this very recent.

[George Severis]

I know. I'm trying to think what the equivalent is. Like in 2005, what was the tragedy that happened that someone would be. Well, maybe. Let's not. Let's not look too much into that. But I actually think that's part of it. She is weird when she shows up to that party dressed as Jackie. That's not normal. That means, you know, it's kind of like nerdy kid being into comic books when all the other kids are into race cars or whatever. It's her version of being a weird girl who takes photos of dead birds.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. But it's an interesting little character study of this very mentally ill woman who has, among other things, delusions of grandeur. Even though she is ostensibly very wealthy, it seems like all the money is gone and, like, there's something a little Grey Gardens about it.

[George Severis]

Well, yes, exactly. That's another Kennedy parallel, I feel, honestly, even just, you know, we're obviously now talking in broad archetypes, but the archetype of the sort of distant but controlling mother. The fact that, yes, as you say, in this giant house, the furniture is.

[Julia Claire]

Nice, but the kitchen's a mess, and the maid is gone and are there sheets on the bed?

[George Severis]

Right. And of course, there's this. I mean, I keep wanting to say waspy, but of course, the Kennedys are Catholic fantasy. Thank you, but thank you. Yes, but there's this very proper speak. Even when talking about extremely dark issues, everything has to be couched in politeness. Yeah, I find the. It's funny you mentioned the kitchen. One of the big plot points is that because of the hurricane, the power goes out, so the oven doesn't work, so they can't make Thanksgiving dinner. And I feel like that's also very obvious. Nod to. There is no coziness in this family. Like, they can't even cook dinner. They're there for Thanksgiving and all they have to eat is cranberry sauce.

[Julia Claire]

Food is cold.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly. I mean, I'm just looking at some of these quotes. Troy Spelling goes, boy, it's been a long day. And then Jaggy O goes, not as long as yesterday. Yesterday was 24 whole hours.

[Julia Claire]

If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie.

[George Severis]

It's really full of comedy because it.

[Julia Claire]

Is kind of a showcase for her to be as deranged.

[George Severis]

She's taping the windows to prepare for the rain. Because she saw it somewhere and she.

[Julia Claire]

Saw it on the news.

[George Severis]

She saw it then, you guys.

[Julia Claire]

But it'll leave goo on the windows.

[George Severis]

But it'll leave goo on the windows. Goo is what tape is all about. Goo is what makes a tape instead of paper.

[Julia Claire]

And you know what? She's right.

[George Severis]

I have to say, you know, would I recommend this film? I would say yes. I say get a group of friends together, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out some hors d', oeuvres, make sure the oven is working.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. Cheese and crackers. Something not. Not super pretentious. Maybe not a great chardonnay.

[George Severis]

Yes, yes.

[Julia Claire]

And just have a ball.

[George Severis]

I mean, this quote, love is for people with tiny lives. I mean, there's some real poetry.

[Julia Claire]

And isn't the second part of that in tiny little heads or something?

[George Severis]

Yeah. So anyway, I think this gets an enthusiastic one thumb up and one thumb down, but we're not sure whose thumb is which.

[Julia Claire]

Go. Go see it for yourself.

[George Severis]

Yes, go see it for yourself. There's so much cultural detritus that references the Kennedys that is completely, you know, C tier insert in terms of the type of stuff we talk about. But it is fun to see, aside from the super popular depictions of the Kennedys, how this stuff gets watered down and passed and then reappropriate it in these weird, kooky ways. It just is in the DNA of American pop culture so much that someone can write an off Broadway play that then gets adapted into a film that then is like, reclaimed as a cult classic that is about twins that have an incestuous relationship in which they fetishize the Kennedy assassination.

[Julia Claire]

And honestly, I do really mean this, is that over the course of this podcast, obviously, you and I at this point have watched quite a few movies that, as you say, are just so Oscar baity and trying so hard to be taken seriously that they end up becoming essentially like Lifetime movies. And this goes in the other direction. And I do prefer this.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I prefer this. I think it's a very funny double feature with, you know, Pablo Lorraine's Jackie, starring Natalie Portman, because both of them are such a campy, kooky performances in just opposite ways. I mean, Parker Posey is not trying to win an Oscar. She's trying to win, of course, an audience award at Sundance.

[Julia Claire]

That's right.

[George Severis]

But it is. It's funny. It's funny the way that this cultural iconography gets remixed and reappropriated for each different age and for each different audience. And as we said with Julia Fox wearing this exact costume basically just this year, it's not stopping anytime soon. I mean, we're about to see a Jack Schlossberg Congressional run. RFK is as ever in the news for reasons both political and personal.

[Julia Claire]

The Kennedy legacy is violent and upsetting in a lot of ways.

[George Severis]

Yes, I have to mark myself safe from it every morning when I wake up.

[Julia Claire]

So yeah, I actually think the Julia Fox Halloween costume, the fact that it happened this Halloween and she had the suit covered in blood, I think we're never going to shake this cultural morbid fascination with with one of the most gruesome public murders in modern American history.

[George Severis]

And not to mention Ryan Murphy working on the JFK junior Show. There's about to be an onslaught of Kennedy content, so listeners of this podcast will be the only ones prepared in America.

[Julia Claire]

You heard it here first. So that's it for this week's episode.

[George Severis]

Next week we will be going back to talking about the actual Kennedy family and not just the fictional portrayal of Kennedy related kids. So subscribe and follow United States of Kennedy for all things Kennedy every week.

[Julia Claire]

United States of Kennedy is hosted by me, Julia, Claire and George Taveras.

[George Severis]

Original music by Joshua Topolsky Editing by Graham Gibson Mixing and mastering by Doug.

[Julia Claire]

Boehm Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson.

[George Severis]

Our producer is Carmen Laurent.

[Julia Claire]

Our executive producer is Jenna Cagle.

[George Severis]

Created by Lyra Smith.

[Julia Claire]

United States United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart podcasts.

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[George Severis]

Back when I pay in 4.

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[George Severis]

12:31 see paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 who doesn't.

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[Julia Claire]

And it was.

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[George Severis]

You know what a girl's best friend is?

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This is an iHeart podcast.

[George Severis]

Guaranteed Human.