Podcast Summary: United States of Kennedy – "RFK's Assassination"
Date: January 26, 2026
Host: George Civeris (Julia Claire absent)
Guest: Zach Stewart Pontier (filmmaker, podcaster, creator of The RFK Tapes)

Episode Overview

In this episode, George Civeris examines the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy (RFK) in 1968, focusing specifically on the myriad conspiracy theories that have surrounded the event ever since. Guest Zach Stewart Pontier joins to share insights from his in-depth research and podcast series, The RFK Tapes, re-examining the official narrative, the alternative theories, and the cultural impact of the murder.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. RFK’s Background and Political Context

• George gives a brisk run-through of RFK’s biography and political rise, from working with Joseph McCarthy to managing his brother JFK’s campaigns, serving as Attorney General, battling organized crime, targeting Castro, and a late-but-committed entry into civil rights.
• “Bobby was a late convert to the civil rights movement... he infamously authorized wiretapping of Martin Luther King Jr.” (02:28–03:36)
• RFK’s shift from tough AG to a figure of compassion and unity following JFK’s assassination frames his appeal during the 1968 campaign.

2. The Assassination Night: Official Narrative

• George and Zach discuss the events of June 5, 1968. RFK is shot at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles just after winning the California primary.
• Sirhan Sirhan, a young Palestinian immigrant, is captured and convicted – this forms the widely-accepted version of what happened.
• “One of the most famous things... RFK on his back in the kitchen of the hotel...” (08:06–08:45, Zach)
• The chaos and celebration of that night shift instantly to tragedy.

3. Sirhan Sirhan: The Man, The Mystery

• Sirhan Sirhan’s background is explored: failed jockey, struggling immigrant, vague motives, and, critically, little recall of the event itself.
• “He doesn’t seem to be able to remember the crime.” (10:44, Zach)
• Noted oddness: Months of hypnotic interrogation recorded in tapes, with Sirhan apparently unable to recall the act.
• “He’s getting very upset... the hypnotist has this booming voice... Sirhan, reach for the gun, you’re killing Kennedy. Why are you doing it? And he’s hyperventilating...” (12:01, Zach)

4. Immediate Aftermath: The Race to Closure

• Pressure on authorities to quickly resolve the case owing to messiness around the JFK assassination.
• Early complications: Sandra Serrano claims a “woman in a polka-dot dress” said, “We did it, we killed Kennedy.” (13:18–14:32, Zach)
• Efforts to dismiss this testimony as mistaken or coerced retraction – highlights early suspicion about a lone gunman.

5. Sirhan in Later Years

• Sirhan sometimes claimed responsibility, later retracted, and eventually came to believe he’d been “programmed.”
• “There was a time when he went on TV and took credit for it... Then he backed off of that... [later] he believes that he was taken somewhere and trained to do this.” (20:05, Zach)
• Sirhan remains in prison at over 80, denied parole as recently as 2022.

6. Why Zach Stewart Pontier Got Pulled Into the Case

• Zach’s fascination traced back to a documentary he heard as a kid and, later, access to extensive archives: “When I saw the list of all the tapes they had, I just started to get incredibly excited...” (21:41, Zach)
• Introduction of key figures: Bill Klaber (investigative journalist deeply invested in alternative theories), Paul Schrade (RFK supporter and shooting victim), and Allard Lowenstein (congressman/friend who spotlighted discrepancies).

7. The Bullet Count and Ballistic Mysteries

• The central pillar of alternative theories: too many wounds for an 8-shot revolver.
  • “The gist of it... Kennedy’s hit three times and there’s six other victims. So... there’s nine people. And his gun only holds eight bullets...” (26:16, Zach)
• Possible second shooter: security guard Thane Cesar, who had a .22-caliber gun and animosity towards RFK’s civil rights stances.
• The “woman in the polka-dot dress” as possible handler, and the alleged usage of hypnotic “programming” in the murder.

8. Problems with the Alternative Theories

• George and Zach flag how alternative narratives are as patchy as the official one:
  • “If you were confident in your hypno programming, why would you need a second shooter?” (25:17, George)
  • Theorist assertion vs. logistical likelihood: “Wouldn’t you give them the same gun? ... You also need a corrupt police force to cover it up. It’s just so complicated.” (38:00–38:20, Zach)
• Both reflect on how human fallibility and chaotic events breed confusion.

9. RFK Jr. and Schrade’s Later Involvement

• R.F.K. Jr. and Paul Schrade formally pressed for reexamination of the case, focusing on Cesar as the likely second shooter, but nothing substantial changed. George notes RFK Jr.'s later notoriety for conspiracy thinking as possibly undermining the push. (40:18–41:03)

10. Handling Conspiracies in a Changed Media Climate

• Zach describes original enthusiasm morphing into caution as “conspiracies became more front-facing and peddled from official channels” in the Trump era. (41:57–43:33, Zach)
• Grapples with responsibility: “It felt reckless a little to be just spinning things up without answers.” (42:19, Zach)

11. Reflections on Motivation, Uncertainty, and Legacy

• Both George and Zach reflect on how everyone involved—investigators, victims, and conspiracy theorists alike—were likely motivated by sincere beliefs and trauma.
• Key takeaway: “I think questioning things is important. I never blame anyone for asking questions.” (30:08, Zach)
• Enduring ambiguities: emotional motives, unreliable witnesses, chaotic evidence. “The Kennedy story—no matter how overexposed—remains weirdly unknowable.” (36:24, George)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He doesn’t seem to be able to remember the crime.” – Zach Stewart Pontier (10:44)
• “I know a land from a groove, but I know that an eight-shot revolver can’t fire nine bullets.” (26:43, unidentified famous line)
• “When I saw the list of all the tapes they had, I just started to get incredibly excited...” – Zach (21:41)
• “I used to say to Bill, like, I would not be the one... that pitched this idea... We need three things. They’re simple things. We could do them all. We need a girl. She should be wearing some sort of dress, like maybe polka dot...” – Zach (29:24)
• “The Kennedys are so, despite being so overexposed, weirdly unknowable.” – George (36:24)
• “I think questioning things is important. I never blame anyone for asking questions.” – Zach (30:08)
• “It felt reckless a little to be just spinning things up without answers.” – Zach (42:19)
• “Sometimes pure motives can be combined with misguided beliefs, whereas the opposite is also true...” – George (45:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• RFK’s background and lead-up to assassination: 02:28–06:17
• Official account and depiction in film: 06:17–09:28
• Sirhan Sirhan’s story, hypnosis, and memory loss: 09:28–12:22
• Sandra Serrano’s polka-dot dress account: 13:18–15:08
• Sirhan’s public statements and evolving beliefs: 20:05–21:01
• Alternative theories, hypno-programming, second shooter, Thane Cesar: 24:30–29:05
• Confounding details and problems with all theories: 37:26–38:20
• Paul Schrade and RFK Jr. team up for reinvestigation: 40:18–41:03
• Media/Conspiracy climate shifts post-2016: 41:57–43:33
• Final reflections on uncertainty and motivation: 44:31–45:43

Tone & Style

The tone is open-minded, wry, and careful—both host and guest balance skepticism towards official and alternative explanations, expressing empathy for investigators and amateur sleuths alike while emphasizing the complexity and irresolvability of the case. The conversation is thoughtful, sometimes humorous, and always aware of the larger context of American history and the Kennedy family's unique place within it.

For listeners: This episode offers a nuanced, engaging look at RFK’s assassination—interweaving historical recap, details from primary sources, and a candid conversation about the limits of both the official record and alternative theories. Whether you’re a conspiracy theory skeptic or enthusiast, you’ll find plenty to consider about memory, power, belief, and the American need for meaning in its tragedies.