United States of Kennedy — Episode Summary

Podcast: United States of Kennedy
Episode: The Myths of the JFK-Nixon Debate
Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: George Civeris and Julia Claire
Guest: Craig LeMay, Professor of US and Comparative Media Law, Northwestern University

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the cultural and historical legacy of the 1960 Kennedy–Nixon debate, widely considered the first televised presidential debate, and explores the myths that have surrounded it—most notably, the oft-cited claim that “TV viewers thought Kennedy won, but radio listeners thought Nixon did.” Hosts George and Julia, joined by media law expert Craig LeMay, unpack why these myths persist and how the political and media landscapes shaped (and were shaped by) this epochal event.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Context of Presidential Debates

• Pre-1960 Format:
  • In the 19th and early 20th centuries, debates were mainly handled by surrogates, not candidates themselves.
  • The famous Lincoln-Douglas debates were unusual and even frowned upon at the time; senators weren’t popularly elected.
  • Debates were often forms of popular entertainment, integrated into carnivals and shows ([03:25]).
• First Face-to-Face Debate:
  • The 1960 JFK-Nixon debate was the first time presidential candidates ever debated directly on stage.
  • “[The 1960 debates]… that was not just the first televised debate. That was the first time in history presidential candidates met face to face. It had never happened before.” (Craig LeMay, [03:25])

2. Enabling the Debate: Legal and Technical Barriers

• Equal Time Law & Congress’ Role:
  • Section 315 of the 1934 Communications Act required equal airtime for all candidates, which would have made debates nearly impossible with so many minor candidates.
  • Congress temporarily suspended this rule in 1960 for the debates to occur ([07:11]).
  • After 1960, no further debates occurred until 1976 because the law wasn’t updated to specifically allow debates.
• Growth of Television:
  • 1956 marked the year when more than half of U.S. households owned a television; by 1960, TV had far surpassed radio’s reach.

3. Media Environment of the 1950s–60s

• News Dominated by Newspapers:
  • Newspapers still set the news agenda; TV news had only just begun to become widespread.
• TV Networks as ‘Loss Leaders’:
  • Network news programs weren’t profit centers but essential for their networks’ reputation.
• Public Reaction to Debates:
  • Initial press reviews were skeptical, viewing televised debates as unserious ([10:38]).

4. What Actually Happened in the 1960 Debate? Debunking the Myths

• Substance, Style, and Stagecraft:
  • Top issues like Vietnam did not feature; instead, minor Cold War topics did.
  • Kennedy’s appearance is mythologized: he wore a dark suit, accepted TV makeup (unlike Nixon), and appeared smooth, poised, and telegenic.
  • Nixon, who was ill, wore no makeup, was recovering from injury, and appeared uncomfortable, sweaty, and fatigued ([20:32]).
  • “The other thing I do know, both had agreed not to wear makeup. Kennedy wore makeup. Nixon declined it … in the days of analog television, you really needed to wear makeup or you would shine like a light bulb.” (Craig LeMay, [21:17])
  • Nixon worked to change his visual presentation for subsequent debates: “A four a day regimen of rich milkshakes helped me put on weight. And this time I agreed to use makeup.” (Nixon via George, [23:08])
• Substantive Value vs. Entertainment:
  • “One of the criticisms ... was that [television] made television the essential medium for national politics. ... It becomes more about entertainment values than substantive ones.” (Craig LeMay, [23:22])

5. The TV vs. Radio Winner Myth

• No Robust Evidence:
  • The belief that radio listeners favored Nixon and TV viewers favored Kennedy is largely anecdotal; there’s no solid data supporting this ([33:04]).
  • “I don't know, but I'm gonna guess there's no hard data on that. I'm gonna guess there were no social scientists who went out and did a scientifically credible poll to kind of figure this out. I think this is anecdotal...” (Craig LeMay, [33:04])
• Demographics and Radio’s Conservative Lean:
  • Radio audiences then (and now) tend to be more conservative, so any difference may have reflected the audience makeup rather than the medium’s effect ([34:11]).
  • Rural Americans, less likely to own TVs, were more likely to listen on the radio.

6. Evolution and Governance of Debates (Post-1960)

• No Further Debates Until 1976:
  • Legal barriers persisted until the FCC classified debates as news events (if sponsored by non-party entities).
• The Debate Commission:
  • Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) became official in 1987, after the League of Women Voters couldn’t enforce reasonable conduct. It is legally required to be nonpartisan ([26:46]).
  • Third-party participation rules require 15% support in national polls.
  • "[CPD] is by law nonpartisan... the commission specifically provides for third party candidates to participate if they have 15% national support." (Craig LeMay, [26:46])

7. Lasting Media Impact

• Television as a Medium Shapes Outcomes:
  • Kennedy, the first "television president," benefited from his youth, charisma, and TV presence.
  • The debate format contributed to the trend of campaigns prioritizing media management and style over in-depth policy.
• Cultural Influence:
  • The event inspired parodies (e.g., SNL's debate spoofs) and set a new standard for campaign media.

8. Enduring Value & Debate Critique

• Debates as Civic Ritual:
  • Despite their flaws, debates remain the one time candidates appear side by side in unscripted, uncontrolled conditions ([44:30]).
  • “This is the only place ever in the course of a presidential campaign where you see the candidates together in a venue that they do not control…” (Craig LeMay, [44:30])
• Entertainment vs. Substance:
  • Many bemoan debates’ lack of policy depth, but they still play a vital role in democracy—other nations have adopted the format, despite often shorter, less expensive campaigns.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Craig LeMay on the first televised debate:
  “That was not just the first televised debate. That was the first time in history presidential candidates met face to face. It had never happened before.” ([03:25])

• On the “TV vs. Radio” myth:
  “I don't know, but I'm gonna guess there's no hard data on that. ... It's believable if you've actually watched it. ... I think it's a credible claim, but I don't think there's any data behind it.” ([33:04])

• About Nixon’s appearance in subsequent debates:
  "A four a day regimen of rich milkshakes helped me put on weight. And this time I agreed to use makeup." (Richard Nixon memoir via George Severis, [23:08])

• On the significance of debates despite their flaws:
  “This is the only place ever in the course of a presidential campaign where you see the candidates together in a venue that they do not control and having to answer questions contemporaneously and also move on their feet.” ([44:30])

• On entertainment value: “They’re not real debates and … they’re mostly entertainment. Well, both are true, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have value.” ([23:53])

• On Kennedy and Nixon as foils:
  “For two white guys, they couldn't have been more different. Nixon had ... always had a big chip on his shoulder about not growing up rich … Kennedy was a prep school, New England, new money, very smooth, suave, poised, handsome man. Again, kind of everything that Nixon ... wanted to be.” (Julia Claire, [24:17])

Important Timestamps by Topic

• [01:19] — Framing the 1960 debate’s mythic status
• [03:25] — Craig LeMay on the actual history of debates pre-1960
• [07:11] — Congress permits the debates via Equal Time Law suspension
• [10:38] — TV’s rise and public skepticism about the debates
• [15:42] — 70 million Americans watched the 1960 debate
• [20:32] — Kennedy’s presentation vs. Nixon’s (suit, makeup, illness)
• [23:08] — Nixon’s change in approach for later debates
• [26:46] — How the Commission on Presidential Debates works
• [33:04] — Debunking the TV vs. radio listener winner myth
• [38:44] — The learning curve for candidates in a new medium
• [44:30] — Why debates matter, outside of policy outcomes

Overall Tone & Style

• The discussion was lively, insightful, and sometimes wry; hosts and guest were candid about the messiness and theatricality of American political ritual while maintaining respect for its democratic value.

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, clear-eyed assessment of the JFK-Nixon debates, separating historical fact from enduring myth, and examining how American debates became a template—warts and all—for political contests across the world. The decisive takeaway: while style may have triumphed over substance in 1960, debates remain the rare moment when voters see candidates "move on their feet," and for all their imperfections, that's a civic moment worth preserving.

Recommended next steps for listeners: Watch archived JFK-Nixon debates online, and read Neil Postman’s “Amusing Ourselves to Death" for further context on media’s effect on public discourse.