UnJustified – Episode 33: "Alito’s Worst Nightmare"
Date: September 7, 2025
Hosts: Allison Gill (Mueller, She Wrote) & Andrew McCabe (Former Deputy Director, FBI)
Podcast: UnJustified by MSW Media
Overview
This episode explores the deepening erosion of civil liberties and the rule of law under the Trump Department of Justice, focusing especially on Attorney General Pam Bondi’s ongoing efforts to politicize and reshape the DoJ, alarming breakdowns in basic prosecutorial and judicial functions, and escalating tensions inside the U.S. intelligence community under the Trump administration’s appointees. Allison Gill and Andy McCabe analyze recent high-profile stories illustrating a climate of intimidation and dysfunction, examine feedback from listeners, and reflect on how these developments threaten faith in U.S. law enforcement and the judiciary.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Charles McGonigal DOJ Inspector General Report
[01:07–05:58]
- Background: Charles McGonigal, former head of counterintelligence for the FBI’s New York field office, previously pleaded guilty in DC and SDNY to lying to the FBI and sanctions violations.
- Latest IG Report: Reveals McGonigal was also obstructing justice by sharing information with targets of an investigation into Chinese government agents, helping them evade arrest.
- Andy: “He was obstructing justice by illegally and inappropriately sharing info from a multi-year investigation... just unbelievably a stunning recitation of horrible activity for any FBI agent.” [03:26]
- Allison: “Hard to believe that somebody who spent that many years in counterintel and the FBI would get wrapped up in this stuff.” [04:20]
- Consequence: Further damages already battered trust in institutions.
2. Pam Bondi’s "Assault" on the Department of Justice
[05:58–13:04]
- Sanctuary Cities Working Group: Career attorneys forced into a "rubber room" assignment then resigned en masse; task force assignments appeared designed to force out loyal, independent staff.
- Allison: “The task force was designed to do nothing but frustrate and eventually force out lawyers the administration felt it could replace with people more loyal to the president.” [06:34]
- Andy: Compares to notorious NYC “rubber rooms” for idle accused teachers. [07:10]
- Personal Parallel: Allison shares her own experience being sidelined after her podcasting was discovered.
- Allison: “They started giving me really dumb, like, rubber room tasks... this rings true. Can confirm, in other words.” [08:10]
- Circumventing Rules: Reassignments “pre-Bondi” avoided federal review period for political firings.
3. Judicial Ethics: Emil Bovey’s Conflicted Role
[09:55–14:37]
- Background: Trump loyalist Emile Bovey confirmed as a federal appellate judge but continued to wield influence within DoJ.
- Critique: Raises ethical alarms; legal experts say it looks like direct political influence over the judiciary.
- NYU Ethics Professor Stephen Gillers: “Socializing with Trump is fine. Advising Trump is not fine. Putting himself physically in a place where it looks like he’s identifying with the president’s political agenda is not fine.” [12:00]
- Historical Parallel: The hosts compare to J. Michael Luttig (1991) but note the differences in depth and appearance of conflict.
4. Politicization and First Amendment Concerns in DoJ Personnel
[15:20–16:20]
- Pam Bondi Firing Employees for Political Expression:
- Latest dismissal: Paralegal Elizabeth Baxter fired for flipping off National Guard.
- Previous: Paralegal fired (and threatened with felony charges) for throwing a sandwich at CBP agent.
- Allison: “I wonder if the ACLU will take this up. This seems like a First Amendment right violation...” [16:20]
5. D.C. Grand Juries: A “Crisis of Credibility”
[17:04–24:33]
- Grand Juries Refusing Indictments: Multiple DC grand juries recently declined to indict, including cases involving threats against President Trump.
- Former prosecutor Brendan Ballou: “Not only have I never heard of this happening, I have never heard of a prosecutor who’s heard of this happening... the administration has absolutely destroyed its credibility with jurors.” [18:24]
- Victor Salgado: “Exceptionally rare...” [18:44]
- Judicial Rebukes: Judges are publicly excoriating DoJ for “embarrassment and shame” and “playing cops and robbers like children.”
- Judge Zia Faruki: “Past the point of constitutional crisis as the Trump administration is playing cops and robbers like children...” [21:25]
- Flawed Indictment Examples: DoJ charged a protester with assaulting a “federal officer” who was actually MPD, not federal.
- Allison: “So that’s a pretty good argument [to dismiss].” [23:57]
6. Selective Prosecution and “Prudent” Dismissals
[24:04–26:46]
- Pattern: DOJ dropping cases against clients of Pam Bondi’s brother, Brad Bondi; apparent favoritism.
- Andy: “It is therefore, quote, prudent for the government to end this criminal prosecution...” [25:06]
- Allison: “Oh, so you can defraud those things.” [25:49]
- Observation: DOJ dropping prosecutions for COVID relief and minority business aid fraud cases, described as “woke” programs.
7. Update: Judge Boasberg’s Criminal Contempt Opinion
[27:45–36:00]
- Context: DOJ ignored Boasberg’s order to turn back deportation flights; ACLU now appealing to full D.C. Circuit to revisit panel’s stay of contempt ruling.
- Allison: “The ACLU has filed an appeal to the en banc panel of the D.C. circuit Court of Appeals.” [27:45]
- Whistleblower: Arez Raveni revealed Bovey told DoJ to be ready to “tell the court to fuck off.” [27:55]
- ACLU’s Lee Gellert: “If the judiciary doesn’t put its foot down... really puts us on dangerous ground.” [29:09]
- Significance: Limiting judicial power to investigate contempt “undermines the authority of the federal courts.” [32:37]
- Chilling Precedent: Supreme Court’s emergency docket use and lack of transparency also undermining judicial legitimacy.
8. Intelligence Community Conflict: Tulsi Gabbard vs. CIA
[38:28–42:05]
- Incident: DNI Tulsi Gabbard publicly outs undercover CIA officer, revokes clearances with no coordination, causing alarm.
- Allison: “It’s blowing my mind that John Ratcliffe is like, Tulsi, slow down.” [39:15]
- Andy: “Just the fact that you have the Director of National Intelligence putting intelligence officers at risk... it’s totally foreseeable because Tulsi Gabbard is incompetent and should not be in that job.” [41:17]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On FBI Malfeasance:
“Just a really troubling story and one obviously that comes out of the FBI and part of the Department of Justice. So thought it was worth mentioning here. We got to be here to talk about the good and the bad.”
— Andy McCabe [05:04] -
On Internal DoJ Sabotage:
“The task force was designed to do nothing but frustrate and eventually force out lawyers the administration felt it could replace with people more loyal to the president.”
— Allison Gill [06:34] -
On Judicial Ethics:
“Socializing with Trump is fine. Advising Trump is not fine. Putting himself physically in a place where it looks like he’s identifying with the president’s political agenda is not fine.”
— Stephen Gillers (quoted by Allison) [12:00] -
Grand Jury Crisis:
“Not only have I never heard of this happening, I have never heard of a prosecutor who’s heard of this happening...”
— Former federal prosecutor Brendan Ballou [18:24] -
On ACLU’s Criminal Contempt Appeal:
“If the judiciary doesn’t put its foot down... really puts us on dangerous ground.”
— Lee Gellert, ACLU [29:09] -
On Intelligence Community Mismanagement:
“Just the fact you have the Director of National Intelligence putting intelligence officers at risk... is totally foreseeable because Tulsi Gabbard is incompetent and should not be in that job.”
— Andy McCabe [41:17]
Important Timestamps
- [01:07] – Charles McGonigal IG report and implications for FBI integrity
- [05:58] – Pam Bondi’s sidelining of DoJ staff; personal anecdotes of being “rubber-roomed”
- [09:55] – Emil Bovey’s ethical conflicts, comparisons to historical cases
- [15:20] – DoJ employee firings for political expression
- [17:04] – D.C. grand juries refusing to indict and federal prosecutor/judicial reactions
- [27:45] – Judge Boasberg contempt update, ACLU’s en banc petition, whistleblower details
- [38:28] – Tulsi Gabbard’s clash with CIA over outing undercover officer
Listener Questions Segment
- [42:24] – Lighthearted listener Q&A, including a running joke about the size of a “footlong salami sammich” and a deep dive into how D.C. grand juries work.
- [48:15] & [49:25] – Andy & Allison explain grand jury and petit jury differences, highlighting the extraordinary nature of current D.C. grand jury resistance.
- [50:42] – Andy plugs his cameo in the Amazon documentary "String Theory: Guitar Obsessed" and discusses punk band aspirations with Allison.
Episode Summary
The episode paints a disturbing picture of a Justice Department in chaos: ethical boundaries are eroded, campaign loyalists bend rules, whistleblowers are ignored, grand juries and judges resist apparent politicization, and even the intelligence community’s basic safety protocols are abandoned. The hosts’ insider accounts—bolstered by news reporting, whistleblower insights, and legal expert commentary—underscore an urgent warning: trust in American legal institutions is under attack from within.
For those seeking clarity on how the rule of law is being bent and broken in real time under the current administration, this is a must-listen episode.
[End of Summary]