Podcast Summary: UnJustified – "Blindingly Naive and Oblivious" (feat. Steve Vladeck) | April 13, 2025

UnJustified, hosted by Alison Gill and Andy McCabe of MSW Media, delves into the deteriorating state of civil liberties and the rule of law under former President Donald Trump's Department of Justice (DoJ). In the episode titled "Blindingly Naive and Oblivious," released on April 13, 2025, the hosts engage in a comprehensive discussion with Georgetown Law Professor Steve Vladeck to unpack recent legal battles, Supreme Court rulings, and internal DoJ turmoil.

1. Alien Enemies Act Proclamation and Supreme Court Ruling

The episode opens with Alison Gill and Andy McCabe addressing significant developments surrounding the Alien Enemies Act Proclamation. This act has been used to deport hundreds of alleged MS-13 gang members to El Salvador without due process, raising serious constitutional concerns.

Key Points:

• Supreme Court Decision: The Supreme Court ruled that individuals deported under the Alien Enemies Act are entitled to due process, allowing courts to demand the government to facilitate the return of wrongfully deported detainees (00:06).

• Temporary Restraining Orders (TROs): Judge Boasberg had issued TROs preventing the removal of certain plaintiffs. The Supreme Court vacated these TROs, stating that such cases should be filed as habeas petitions instead (03:27).

Notable Quotes:

• Andy McCabe: "The Supreme Court vacated Judge Boasberg's temporary restraining orders. So the ACLU has followed the Supreme Court's ruling and filed habeas petitions..." (02:43)

• Steve Vladeck: "The court is writing these short opinions that... feel more like rationalizations than legal analysis." (06:44)

Professor Vladeck critiques the Supreme Court's handling of the case, arguing that the decision undermines due process and fails to hold the government accountable for unlawful deportations. He emphasizes that the courts retain the authority to influence the return of deported individuals, contrary to the administration's stance.

2. Interview with Steve Vladeck: Implications of the Supreme Court Ruling

Steve Vladeck provides an in-depth analysis of the Supreme Court's decision, highlighting its shortcomings and potential ramifications.

Key Points:

• Equitable Consideration: Vladeck discusses the dissenting opinion regarding equitable consideration, emphasizing that the government's actions should not be justified despite procedural technicalities (06:44).

• Government's Strategy: He suggests that the government’s approach, including emergency applications to the Supreme Court, is more about political maneuvering than legal integrity (08:50).

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Vladek: "If the court thinks that what the government's doing is lawful... they don't understand at a basic level just how abnormal these times are." (10:46)

• Alison Gill: "The Supreme Court has to bring him back kind of, but not really... they set up some ambiguous language." (25:55)

Vladeck criticizes the Supreme Court for its superficial engagement with the case, arguing that the ruling does not sufficiently address the illegal deportations and fails to enforce meaningful accountability.

3. Updates on the Abrego Garcia Case

Following the interview, Gill and McCabe provide real-time updates on the Abrego Garcia case, emphasizing ongoing legal struggles to secure his return from El Salvador.

Key Points:

• Court Orders: Judge Zinnis mandates the DoJ to facilitate Garcia's return, but ambiguities in the court's language have left ample room for governmental delays (23:21).

• Government's Response: The DoJ requests extensions, citing the need to "clarify" their actions with due regard for executive deference in foreign affairs—an argument met with frustration by the hosts (29:37).

Notable Quotes:

• Alison Gill: "What we're fighting over here is whether or not the courts can tell the executive how to interact with and conduct diplomacy with a foreign country." (14:02)

• Andy McCabe: "The defendants request... opportunity to brief that issue prior to being subject to any compliance deadlines. So now they're dictating to the court." (35:21)

The hosts express significant concern over the DOJ's evasive tactics and the potential for continued delays, which could leave Garcia in distressing conditions without due process.

4. DOJ Internal Turmoil and Ethical Concerns

The podcast shifts focus to internal conflicts within the Department of Justice, highlighting the suspension and replacement of key attorneys involved in high-profile cases.

Key Points:

• Suspension of Erez Reveni: Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch places senior immigration lawyer Erez Reveni on indefinite leave after Reveni publicly questioned the deportation of Abrego Garcia, labeling it illegal (46:32).

• Ed Martin’s Ethics Complaint: The DoJ's Interim U.S. Attorney in D.C., Ed Martin, faces allegations of conflict of interest for dismissing charges against a Capitol Riot defendant he previously represented. However, the DC Office of Disciplinary Counsel declines to investigate, citing Trump's sweeping pardons as justification (60:25).

Notable Quotes:

• Andy McCabe: "The truth is prejudicial to the... DA that is just mind blowing..." (51:03)

• Steve Vladeck: "It's... nothing you have in here." (39:48)

The hosts argue that these actions signify a troubling departure from legal norms, where honesty and ethical conduct are being undermined by political pressures within the DoJ.

5. Trump’s Executive Orders Against Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor

Alison Gill and Andy McCabe discuss newly signed executive orders by Trump aimed at investigating former officials Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor for their roles in resisting administrative overreach.

Key Points:

• Targeted Officials:

  • Chris Krebs: Former head of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), criticized for opposing Trump's baseless claims of election fraud.
  • Miles Taylor: Former Homeland Security official and anonymous author critical of Trump’s internal resistance.

• Allegations: The executive orders accuse both individuals of actions deemed treasonous, though specifics are lacking, raising concerns about the abuse of prosecutorial power.

Notable Quotes:

• Andy McCabe: "Trump thinks it's treason. He loves to throw the treason word around." (69:07)

• Alison Gill: "These firms... ordered to investigate his political enemies." (66:19)

The episode critiques these executive actions as politically motivated attacks lacking substantive legal basis, echoing previous abuses of prosecutorial powers under Trump's administration.

6. Removal of FBI Director Kash Patel

An update is provided on FBI Director Kash Patel, who has been removed from his position as acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) due to absenteeism.

Key Points:

• Removal Reason: Patel was not attending facilities, leading to his quiet removal and replacement by Army Secretary Daniel Driscoll, who will oversee both FBI and ATF roles simultaneously (70:31).

• Critique: The hosts highlight the impracticality and absurdity of dual-hatting roles as a sign of administrative dysfunction (70:31).

Notable Quotes:

• Alison Gill: "Patel was going to try to do it was even more ridiculous. But it is kind of consistent..." (70:45)

• Andy McCabe: "You know what? That'll get you fired." (70:31)

This development is portrayed as indicative of broader administrative chaos within law enforcement agencies under the current administration.

7. Potential Closure of DOJ’s Community Relations Service

The podcast covers an internal memo suggesting the closure of the Community Relations Service (CRS), a DoJ office established during the Civil Rights Movement to mediate racial and ethnic tensions.

Key Points:

• Office Purpose: CRS aims to prevent and resolve conflicts, especially in the wake of civil unrest and natural disasters.

• Closure Implications: Eliminating CRS could dismantle decades of efforts to maintain racial harmony and address community tensions (73:33).

Notable Quotes:

• Alison Gill: "It's a very important office and they're just going to get rid of it." (73:52)

• Andy McCabe: "The Community Relations Service does not investigate or prosecute crimes." (72:06)

The hosts lament the potential loss of CRS, emphasizing its critical role in fostering community stability and supporting Martin Luther King Jr.'s vision of a unified nation.

8. Listener Question: Big Law Firms Caving to Trump

A listener from Australia, Jade, asks why major law firms are conceding to Trump's pressures. Alison Gill and Andy McCabe address this by explaining the financial and operational threats posed by the executive orders targeting these firms.

Key Points:

• Financial Pressure: Executive orders threaten law firms with loss of government contracts and restrictions on their operations, leading firms to offer substantial pro bono services to avoid sanctions.

• Existential Threat: Firms perceive these actions as potentially devastating to their financial stability and client bases (76:55).

Notable Quotes:

• Andy McCabe: "The big problem is that they include language that says... any client of these firms... no longer eligible for government contracts. It's money." (77:44)

• Alison Gill: "These firms see this as an existential threat, one that could end their firm." (79:12)

The hosts illustrate how the combination of financial penalties and reputational damage coerces law firms into compliance, despite ethical concerns.

Conclusion

UnJustified delivers a thorough examination of the current state of the Department of Justice under Trump's influence, highlighting systemic issues related to due process, ethical misconduct, and the erosion of institutional integrity. Through expert insights and timely updates, Alison Gill and Andy McCabe provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of how political pressures are undermining legal norms and civil liberties.

Final Quotes:

• Alison Gill: "This man... is in this torture prison hellhole, frightened, scared, incommunicado. He shouldn't have to spend an additional minute in those conditions." (81:30)

• Andy McCabe: "What we're seeing here is a departure... that's worthy of people noticing." (60:23)

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed and engaged as UnJustified continues to shed light on critical issues affecting justice and civil rights in the United States.