Podcast Summary: Episode 105 | Without Prejudice

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jack
• Host/Authors: Alison Gill and Andy McCabe (MSW Media)
• Description: Alison Gill, Allison Gill, and former FBI Deputy Director Andy McCabe delve into the federal trials of Donald J. Trump. They analyze court filings, strategies, and regulations, guiding listeners through the Special Counsel process that could culminate in Trump's conviction.
• Episode: 105 | Without Prejudice
• Release Date: December 1, 2024

Introduction

The episode begins with Alison Gill welcoming listeners and briefly mentioning a sponsorship message from GiveWell. Shortly after, host Andy McCabe introduces the main topic: Special Counsel Jack Smith's recent legal maneuvers concerning the federal cases against Donald J. Trump. Gill and McCabe set the stage for an in-depth analysis of the dismissal motions filed by Smith.

Overview of Jack Smith's Motion to Dismiss

Andy McCabe opens the discussion by addressing the significant setback faced by Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team. He reflects on their dedication and the unforeseen outcome:

Andy McCabe [00:46]: "It's almost impossible to begin this conversation in any way other than acknowledging the incredibly bad week for Jack Smith and his entire team."

Alison Gill emphasizes the disappointment:

Alison Gill [03:39]: "Bad day for justice, bad week for justice and accountability."

Smith filed motions to dismiss the charges against Trump on November 25th, ahead of the December 2nd deadline. The hosts explore the implications of this early filing, suggesting it may signal the closure of the cases:

Andy McCabe [05:35]: "My strong sense is that this is it. This is the entirety of what he needed to do by December 2nd."

Legal Analysis: Special Counsel's Position

Gill and McCabe delve into the legal rationale behind the dismissal:

Alison Gill [04:39]: "Jack Smith feels he had a strong case and the merits were great. The move to dismiss doesn't reflect on the case's strength but on the unprecedented situation of prosecuting a sitting president."

They discuss the Office of Legal Counsel's (OLC) guidance, which prohibits indicting a sitting president:

Alison Gill [18:15]: "The Department has determined that OLC's prior opinions concerning the Constitution's prohibition on federal indictment and prosecution of a sitting president apply to this situation."

McCabe underscores Smith's principled stance:

Andy McCabe [20:10]: "He is arguing purely out of principle... that this was a valid case, there is a need for society to hold people accountable."

Implications of the Motion to Dismiss

The hosts analyze the strategic choice to dismiss without prejudice, allowing for potential future prosecution:

Alison Gill [27:05]: "In order to maintain that no one is above the law, we can't close this case down completely, but we also can't hold it in abeyance."

Barb McQuaid's perspective is introduced:

Barb McQuaid (cited by Gill) [27:15]: "This move could be an effort to keep the cases alive in the long term."

They discuss the hurdles of reviving the case in 2029, noting the complex legal and political landscape:

Alison Gill [28:00]: "It's a really heavy lift... So it's just a huge lift."

The Paper Shredder Truck Lawsuit

Transitioning to another topic, Gill and McCabe discuss Attorney General Ken Paxton's lawsuit regarding a paper shredder truck seen near the Justice Department:

Andy McCabe [45:24]: "Paxton cited 'widely shared photos' of a paper shredding truck, but Judge Kacmaric dismissed the claim as 'unserious.'"

Gill highlights the judge's dismissal:

Alison Gill [48:10]: "Judge Kacmaric called the claim 'unserious,' noting that there are many legitimate reasons for a paper shredder truck to be present."

Listener Questions and Show Name Suggestions

The episode features a segment where Alison and Andy address listener questions and consider new names for the podcast. Highlights include:

1. Self-Pardon Debate:

   • Listener John [51:10]: Suggests President Biden issue a self-pardon to prevent retaliatory prosecutions and set a precedent.
   • Andy McCabe [51:59]: Acknowledges Biden's low likelihood to act on this and the potential Supreme Court implications.
   • Alison Gill [53:14]: Discusses the challenges and constitutional debates surrounding self-pardons.

2. Future of Jack Smith:

   • Listener Lori [54:36]: Asks what Jack Smith should do next in his career.
   • Andy McCabe [54:43]: Speculates that Smith may continue in prosecution roles, possibly internationally.

3. Congressional Hearings:

   • Listener Marcy [55:44]: Inquires about the possibility of Congress holding hearings to discuss Trump's corruption.
   • Andy McCabe [57:00]: Predicts that hearings will likely be conducted but may be more performative than substantive.

Proposed Podcast Names

Alison and Andy consider various listener-submitted names, ultimately gravitating toward "The Business of Justice", which both find fitting and engaging.

Andy McCabe [64:24]: "The Business of Justice is a pretty good, pretty solid podcast name."

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Alison and Andy reflect on the week's developments and emphasize the importance of staying informed:

Andy McCabe [65:16]: "We need to stand up, remember what we believe in, and just keep following these things as close as we can."

Alison closes with encouragement for listeners to stay engaged and informed:

Alison Gill [65:18]: "An informed electorate is going to be absolutely necessary and important over the next four years."

Notable Quotes:

• Andy McCabe [03:18]: "This is a very unfortunate resolution."
• Alison Gill [04:39]: "He seems really upset that this has come to pass."
• Barb McQuaid (cited by Gill) [27:15]: "This move could be an effort to keep the cases alive in the long term."
• Alison Gill [44:49]: "It's a series of tough decisions to process and figure out the next steps."

Key Takeaways:

• Dismissal Without Prejudice: Special Counsel Jack Smith's motions to dismiss Trump's cases without prejudice aim to preserve the possibility of future prosecution once Trump is no longer president.
• Legal Constraints: The Office of Legal Counsel's opinions prohibit indicting a sitting president, compelling the dismissal.
• Political Implications: While the dismissal maintains legal principles, it also opens doors for future political and legal battles, though practical revival faces significant obstacles.
• Legal Challenges: The intricacies of tolling the statute of limitations and potential Supreme Court involvement present formidable hurdles for any future prosecution.
• Listener Engagement: The hosts actively engage with listeners, addressing pertinent questions and integrating audience input into their discussion.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the latest developments in the Special Counsel investigation, examining both the legal frameworks and the broader political consequences.