Episode Summary: Episode 108 | New Jack City

Release Date: December 29, 2024

Hosted by Alison Gill and Andy McCabe, Episode 108 of Jack delves deep into the intricate web of federal investigations surrounding former President Donald J. Trump. This episode, titled "New Jack City," offers a comprehensive analysis of recent legal developments, potential retaliatory measures by Trump’s team, and significant court cases impacting the landscape of American politics.

1. The Matt Gaetz Ethics Committee Report

The episode opens with a detailed discussion of the recent findings by the House Ethics Committee concerning Congressman Matt Gaetz. Gill and McCabe explore the implications of the committee's report, highlighting Gaetz’s alleged involvement in statutory rape and potential obstruction of justice.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andy McCabe [02:04]: "It's a roller coaster ride of emotions. I laughed, I cried. I didn't know when to stop."

Gill emphasizes the discrepancy between federal and state laws regarding statutory rape, noting that while the Department of Justice (DOJ) did not pursue federal charges against Gaetz, Florida state laws could have provided a firmer legal basis for prosecution.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [04:24]: "Why Pam Bondi didn't open investigations into statutory rape... I think that the answer is pretty clear there."

The hosts critique the DOJ’s reluctance to engage more robustly with congressional investigations, suggesting possible protective measures taken by Trump's allies to shield Gaetz from federal prosecution.

2. Jack Smith's Team and Trump's Anticipated Retaliation

Transitioning to the broader scope of Trump’s potential second term, Gill and McCabe analyze a Rolling Stone article detailing how members of Special Counsel Jack Smith’s team are preparing for possible retribution from Trump’s incoming administration.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andy McCabe [12:05]: "It's going to be part of it, right? This is the part of internal machinations... who's behind it and who are they going after?"

The discussion underscores the fear among federal investigators and attorneys that Trump might leverage his influence over the DOJ and FBI to target those involved in his previous indictments and investigations. The hosts highlight the preemptive legal counsel sought by Smith’s team members, reflecting the tense atmosphere ahead of Trump’s inauguration.

3. Conviction of Former D.C. Police Lieutenant

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the conviction of Shane Lamond, a former D.C. police lieutenant found guilty of obstructing justice by tipping off Proud Boys leader Henry Enrique Tarrio about his pending arrest before the January 6th Capitol attack.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [21:00]: "Do not mess with Judge Amy Berman Jackson."

Gill and McCabe dissect the trial, examining Lamond’s actions in warning Tarrio and the broader implications for law enforcement’s interaction with extremist groups. They discuss Judge Amy Berman Jackson’s stringent sentencing and her remarks on the potential pardoning of Oath Keepers leader Stuart Rhodes.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andy McCabe [26:09]: "That's, you know, what they can do with it. Do whatever they want with it. So we'll see..."

The hosts also touch upon the ethical boundaries of law enforcement in cultivating sources within extremist organizations, emphasizing the thin line between investigation and obstruction.

4. Pardons and the Future of Oath Keepers

Further exploring the theme of potential pardons, Gill and McCabe discuss Judge Amit Mehta’s concerns about the possibility of Stuart Rhodes receiving a presidential pardon. They connect this to Trump’s expressed intentions to pardon those involved in the January 6th insurrection, highlighting the legal and democratic ramifications.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [37:38]: "He could commute sentences. We'll see what happens."

The conversation reflects on the broader impact such pardons could have on democracy, referencing other judges’ criticisms and the specific cases of Oath Keepers members like William Todd Wilson.

5. Listener Questions and Constitutional Protections

In the latter part of the episode, Gill and McCabe address listener-submitted questions, providing insights into complex legal issues surrounding the Special Counsel investigations.

a. FBI Director Term Lengths and Presidential Authority

Chris questions the purpose behind the FBI director’s ten-year term, debating whether it serves to protect the FBI from the President rather than the other way around.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andy McCabe [46:04]: "The first was to protect the FBI from the politics around the presidency."

The hosts clarify that the ten-year term is designed to insulate the FBI from the transient nature of presidential administrations, ensuring a degree of independence and continuity within the bureau.

b. Russian Interference in Election Narratives

Chris also inquires about Russian involvement in fueling theories that Trump stole the election from Democrats.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [50:19]: "They seek to make their enemies weaker and creating chaos."

Gill and McCabe discuss how foreign entities like Russia exploit existing political tensions to sow discord and weaken American societal cohesion, rather than inventing conspiracy theories outright.

c. Congressional Immunity and Potential Prosecutions

Emily raises concerns about the speech or debate clause protecting members of Congress, such as Liz Cheney, from prosecution despite Trump’s antagonistic stance.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [54:42]: "You can't use this, the speech or this legislative activity as evidence of any sort of a crime."

The hosts explain the constitutional protections afforded to legislators, emphasizing that actions performed as part of official duties are shielded from legal prosecution, thereby safeguarding the separation of powers.

d. Presidential Immunity in Civil Suits and Potential Disclosures by Jack Smith

J.D. asks about the apparent contradiction in presidential immunity where the President cannot be prosecuted criminally but can engage in civil lawsuits, and whether Special Counsel Jack Smith could disclose grand jury information in a tell-all scenario.

• Notable Quote:
  • Andy McCabe [59:05]: "So I don't think you need to worry about that one."

Gill and McCabe discuss the complexities surrounding presidential immunity, noting that while criminal prosecutions are restricted, civil actions can proceed under specific circumstances. They also highlight the stringent pre-publication reviews that Special Counsel Jack Smith would face, effectively preventing any unauthorized disclosures.

6. Transition to "New Jack City"

As the episode nears its conclusion, Gill and McCabe reveal their plans to rebrand the podcast to New Jack City, aiming to continue their in-depth coverage of the DOJ's actions and the ongoing Special Counsel investigations.

• Notable Quote:
  • Alison Gill [18:27]: "I like New Jack City, but I think we'll run into some copyright problems."

They invite listeners to submit suggestions for the new show’s name and assure continued comprehensive analysis in future episodes.

Conclusion

Episode 108 of Jack, titled "New Jack City," offers a thorough examination of pivotal legal battles surrounding Donald Trump and his associates. Through incisive discussions, the hosts illuminate the challenges within the DOJ, the potential for political retaliation, and the broader implications for American democracy. Notable court cases, ethical dilemmas in law enforcement, and constitutional protections for lawmakers are dissected with clarity, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the ongoing Special Counsel process.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Andy McCabe [02:04]: "It's a roller coaster ride of emotions. I laughed, I cried. I didn't know when to stop."
• Alison Gill [04:24]: "Why Pam Bondi didn't open investigations into statutory rape... I think that the answer is pretty clear there."
• Alison Gill [21:00]: "Do not mess with Judge Amy Berman Jackson."
• Andy McCabe [12:05]: "It's going to be part of it, right? This is the part of internal machinations... who's behind it and who are they going after?"
• Andy McCabe [26:09]: "That's, you know, what they can do with it. Do whatever they want with it. So we'll see..."
• Alison Gill [37:38]: "He could commute sentences. We'll see what happens."
• Andy McCabe [46:04]: "The first was to protect the FBI from the politics around the presidency."
• Alison Gill [50:19]: "They seek to make their enemies weaker and creating chaos."
• Alison Gill [54:42]: "You can't use this, the speech or this legislative activity as evidence of any sort of a crime."
• Andy McCabe [59:05]: "So I don't think you need to worry about that one."

For more detailed discussions and updates, stay tuned to future episodes as Alison Gill and Andy McCabe continue to navigate the complexities of the Special Counsel investigations and their impact on American governance.