UnJustified – "Epstein Day Delayed"

Podcast: MSW Media
Date: December 21, 2025
Hosts: Allison Gill (AG), Andrew McCabe (AM)
Theme: Documenting the ongoing erosion of civil liberties and the rule of law under Trump’s Department of Justice, focusing this episode on the Epstein Files controversy, DOJ resistance to transparency, and turmoil within FBI leadership.

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the delayed release of the Jeffrey Epstein files by the DOJ, required under newly passed federal law, the continuing opacity of the Trump administration, and political repercussions thereof. Gill and McCabe also discuss high-profile DOJ/FBI personnel moves, notably Dan Bongino’s departure, and former Special Counsel Jack Smith’s testimony before Congress about his investigations into Donald Trump. The hosts contextualize each development in terms of the broader degradation of accountability and civil liberty in the U.S. justice system under Trump.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. DOJ Stalls Full Epstein Files Release

(Starts ~00:06)

• Legal Background:
  • The DOJ was mandated by the overwhelmingly bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Act to release the entirety of its Epstein files (with necessary victim redactions) by Friday, per a 30-day deadline.
  • President Trump signed the Act into law on Nov. 19 after reversing prior opposition.
• DOJ’s Response:
  • Deputy AG Todd Blanche announced only a partial batch of “hundreds of thousands” of documents would be released on deadline, with more to follow “over the next couple of weeks,” attributing the delay to required victim protections.
  • McCabe and Gill express skepticism, noting this rationale’s dubious validity and historical precedent for such after-the-fact justifications.
• Legal/Ethical Concerns:
  • Under the Act, rolling release is not permitted, and DOJ must provide written explanations for withheld/redacted material within 15 days.
• Notable Quotes:

  "Blanche attributed the delay to the need to redact any names...but failing to turn over the full unclassified files could run afoul of the law." - AG [03:01]
  “He’s blaming the victims here.” – AG [03:30]
  "It's a bit like your lawn guy, trying to take credit for cutting every single piece of grass. It's kind of like part of the job, right?" – AM [03:30]

2. Backlash and Political Fallout

(04:36–14:21)

• Congressional Response:
  • Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer:

    "The law Congress passed and President Trump signed was clear as can be...Failing to do so is breaking the law." [06:21]

  • Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie, among other lawmakers, threaten legal action over tampering or excessive redaction, although as Gill points out, actual prosecution is highly unlikely without DOJ/White House support post-2028.
• Potential Legal Action:
  • The more plausible consequence: a lawsuit to expose over-redaction/inappropriate withholding, similar to what happened with the Mueller report.
• Political Realities:
  • McCabe describes potential consequences as almost entirely political (voting, congressional hearings) given Republican control.
  • Gill notes, “As much as these people belong in jail, I think the political consequences are as good as we're going to get in the near term.” [15:54]

3. FBI Leadership Chaos: Dan Bongino Departure

(16:48–24:39)

• Details:
  • Dan Bongino, right-wing media figure and Trump loyalist, announces resignation as FBI Deputy Director (“co Deputy Director”) amid Epstein file controversy fallout.
  • Backstory: Bongino promoted conspiracies around the Epstein files before joining the bureau; inside, he found no evidence of Epstein being murdered, aligning with DOJ/FBI findings, leading to conflict with AG Bondi and others.
  • Widespread ridicule among agents; Bongino had “no experience” as FBI agent—the first such deputy in agency history.
• Memorable Exchange:

  “He was the first deputy director in modern history who had no experience as an FBI agent.” – AG [19:59]
  “Agents are counting down the days.” – Source quoted by AG [22:17]

4. Ongoing Dysfunction: FBI Director Kash Patel

(23:29–30:47)

• Patel’s repeated self-promotional missteps and tendency to jump the gun on public statements, using government assets for PR stunts, frustrating both internal and external stakeholders.
• Discussion of how politicization of senior FBI posts undermines institutional independence and effectiveness, with both hosts suggesting that should a Democrat take the White House in 2028, Patel should be immediately removed.
• Historical context: FBI director’s term-limits were created to prevent another J. Edgar Hoover.

5. Jack Smith’s Closed-Door Testimony

(31:16–40:51)

• Testimony Content:

  • Smith told Congress his team compiled “proof beyond a reasonable doubt” that Trump unlawfully attempted to subvert the 2020 election and unlawfully retained classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

• Republican Strategy:

  • Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan, leading the Republican investigation of the investigation, subpoenaed Smith but barred public testimony, likely to prevent damaging revelations.

• Smith’s Quotes:

  “If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts, today I would do so regardless of whether the president was a Republican or a Democrat.” [39:59]

• Committee Democrats’ Reaction:

  • Raskin jokes it was wise not to allow public testimony, as Smith’s direct statements would be “absolutely devastating to the President and all the president’s men involved in the insurrectionary activities...” [35:41]

6. Litigation over Evidence Returns (Comey, Richmond)

(47:07–52:10)

• Judicial Rebukes:
  • After DOJ violations of Daniel Richmond’s Fourth Amendment rights, court orders prompt return of seized materials, with DOJ raising questionable technicalities to delay.
• Judges’ Tone:
  • Judge Kohler Cotelli dismisses DOJ’s stalling tactics and clarifies basic standards (“...just give him his own stuff back.” [51:09]).

7. DOJ Dismissals, Broader Decline in Law Enforcement Standards

(54:12–56:24)

• Notable Trend:
  • Recent D.C. U.S. Attorney’s Office dismissal rate at a staggering 21% over eight weeks, compared to historical baseline of 0.5%.
• Implication:
  • Gill and McCabe interpret this as both the result of and evidence for the ongoing institutional rot and political subservience at DOJ and associated law enforcement agencies.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This release of the Epstein files is not per a court order, so there can't be contempt for defying it...somebody has to file a lawsuit.” – AG [11:01]
• “I think the criminal charges is a bit far fetched. But yeah...there's nothing stopping a lawsuit and that can continue long after Ms. Bondi is no longer in her position.” – AM [10:03]
• “If you're someone who voted for this president because you were so invested in this issue and you wanted to see transparency, you’re not getting it.” – AM [16:09]
• “He loved having fawning cult members listening to him and listening to his lies and his conspiracy theories. So I don't think it’ll be long...” – AG on Bongino returning to podcasting [63:15]
• “There’s no perfect way to know [if documents are being withheld]; that's my only point.” – AM, on verifying completeness of the Epstein files release [60:54]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 00:06 | Opening headlines, DOJ delays Epstein files release | | 02:03 | Blanche’s announcement, rationale for delay | | 04:36 | Congressional pushback, legal/legislative recap | | 11:34 | Litigation/remedies, political consequences | | 16:48 | Bongino resignation, FBI leadership dysfunction | | 23:29 | Kash Patel missteps, FBI politicization | | 31:16 | Jack Smith’s closed-door congressional testimony | | 39:59 | Smith’s impartiality, Raskin’s remarks | | 47:07 | Richmond/DOJ Fourth Amendment litigation | | 54:12 | DOJ case dismissal rates, erosion of standards | | 56:35 | Listener Q&A |

Listener Q&A Highlights

• Audit of Epstein file completeness:
  • No perfect mechanism exists outside internal chain-of-custody logs; oversight is only possible if an outside body is empowered to investigate, which is improbable under current leadership.
• Dan Bongino’s next move:
  • “He’ll get back on the microphone and start lying probably almost immediately.” – AG [62:35]

Summary Reflection

Gill and McCabe’s discussion is laced with dark humor and deep frustration, conveying a sense of resignation about the limits of legal and institutional remedies in the current political environment. The hosts emphasize the necessity of political accountability and the sharply diminished prospects for genuine legal redress or transparency under Trump’s DOJ and FBI. They critique the hollowing out of norms, the elevation of unqualified loyalists, and the use of delay and obfuscation as governing tactics—all playing out through the drama of the delayed Epstein files, the DOJ’s unraveled prosecutorial capacity, and the theater of congressional hearings.

Listeners are left with a clear portrait of systemic institutional decline, but also with practical insight into what consequences—if any—might be possible before 2028.

For further engagement or questions, listeners are encouraged to submit feedback via the show notes link.