Podcast Summary: UnJustified – Episode: Gutting Public Integrity

Release Date: March 16, 2025
Hosts: Alison Gill & Andy McCabe
Podcast Title: UnJustified by MSW Media

Introduction

In the eighth episode of UnJustified, hosts Alison Gill and Andy McCabe delve deep into the Trump administration's systematic dismantling of key units within the Department of Justice (DoJ). They explore the implications of these actions on civil liberties, public integrity, and the overarching rule of law.

1. The Trump Administration's Restructuring of the Department of Justice

a. Firing of Key Officials

The episode opens with Andy McCabe highlighting the Trump administration's aggressive move to dismantle pivotal units within the DoJ.

• Andy McCabe [00:08]: "The Trump administration is gutting the Justice Department's unit that oversees prosecutions of public officials accused of corruption."

Key dismissals include:

• Adam Cohen, head of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF), was fired by Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Beauvais after collaborating on a memo related to Trump’s Operation Take Back America.
• Cecilia Cohen and Andrew Rohrbach, assistant U.S. Attorneys in the Southern District of New York involved in the corruption case against NYC Mayor Eric Adams, were placed on administrative leave following their refusal to dismiss charges they deemed politically motivated.
• Alex Krzysztofcik, another prosecutor, was removed after criticizing interim U.S. Attorney Ed Martin's stance on diversity, equity, and inclusion at Georgetown University Law School.

b. Implications for Organized Crime and Drug Trafficking

Alison Gill underscores the gravity of Adam Cohen’s role:

• Alison Gill [05:03]: "Under Cohen's leadership, OCDETF was responsible for operations targeting drug cartels and organized crime across the United States."

Andy McCabe elaborates on the significance of OCDETF:

• Andy McCabe [05:33]: "This is one of the most premier appointments in the Justice Department on the criminal side."

c. Shift in Public Corruption Prosecutions

The discussion transitions to the dismantling of the Public Integrity section:

• Andy McCabe [09:02]: "The Trump administration is gutting the justice department's unit that oversees prosecutions of public officials accused of corruption."

This reduction implies a potential shift towards political appointees overseeing corruption cases, raising concerns about impartiality and the erosion of checks and balances.

• David Laughman [10:51]: "The only reasonable interpretation of this extraordinary action is that the administration wants to transfer responsibility for public corruption cases from career attorneys to political appointees."

2. Attack on the Pardon Attorney, Elizabeth Oyer

a. The Case of Mel Gibson

Alison Gill brings attention to the firing of Elizabeth Oyer, the head of the Office of the Pardon Attorney:

• Alison Gill [15:09]: "They fired the pardon attorney because she wouldn't let Mel Gibson have his gun back."

Oyer refused to restore gun ownership rights to Mel Gibson, a convicted domestic abuser and Trump supporter, leading to her dismissal.

b. Ethical Implications

Andy McCabe emphasizes the ethical breach:

• Andy McCabe [17:01]: "The law strips your gun rights if you are convicted of a felony or a misdemeanor involving domestic violence... Oyer found herself in a position where she just couldn't ethically agree to add him to this list."

Oyer’s termination serves as a stark warning to career civil servants about the consequences of standing against politically motivated directives.

3. Targeting of Law Firm Perkins Coie

a. Executive Order Against Perkins Coie

The Trump administration extends its reach to private law firms, targeting Perkins Coie for representing high-profile Democrats and Fusion GPS:

• Andy McCabe [20:26]: "Trump is also going after law firms that have represented his perceived political enemies."

A new executive order, Addressing Risks from Perkins Coie LLP (Executive Order 14230), imposes severe restrictions:

1. Section 1: Bars diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives.
2. Section 3: Prohibits any government contractor from engaging with Perkins Coie.
3. Section 5: Bars Perkins Coie employees from entering government buildings.

b. Legal Pushback and Judicial Response

Perkins Coie sued the administration, seeking a temporary restraining order (TRO) against the executive order. Judge Beryl Howell swiftly granted the TRO:

• Alison Gill [24:04]: "She granted the temporary restraining order... it's like the DOJ thinks those sections of the executive order are poison pills."

Judge Howell's ruling halted the enforcement of Sections 1, 3, and 5, emphasizing the chilling effect such orders could have on legal representation.

• Judge Beryl Howell [24:04]: "It sends little chills down my spine to hear arguments that a president can punish individuals in companies like this."

4. Request for DOJ Inspector General Investigation into Ed Martin

a. Jamie Raskin’s Letter

Alison Gill introduces a significant development involving Jamie Raskin, the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee:

• Alison Gill [31:27]: "Jamie Raskin... has written a letter to Michael Horowitz, the Department of Justice Inspector General."

Raskin's letter accuses Ed Martin, the interim U.S. Attorney for D.C., of:

1. Participation in January 6th Attack: Alleged active involvement in the Capitol insurrection.
2. Dual Representation: Acting as both defense attorney and prosecutor in cases related to the January 6th defendants.
3. Political Bias and Retaliation: Firing prosecutors involved in investigating the January 6th attack and targeting critics of the Trump administration.
4. Improper Use of Office: Threatening journalists, attorneys, and peaceful protesters.
5. Sham Prosecutions: Pressure to initiate prosecutions aligned with Trump's policy goals, including attempts to seize funds from the Inflation Reduction Act.

b. Challenges in Investigation

Andy McCabe discusses the likelihood of the Inspector General pursuing the investigation:

• Andy McCabe [40:53]: "He's not going to open an investigation. The ground he's going to stand on is DOJ's official mandate is to investigate the actions of DOJ employees. So Martin is not an employee yet, technically."

The intricacies of the appointment process and Martin’s current status as interim complicate the initiation of an investigation.

5. Update on Eric Adams’s Criminal Charges

a. DOJ's Motion to Dismiss

Alison Gill and Andy McCabe provide an update on NYC Mayor Eric Adams’s bribery and fraud charges:

• Alison Gill [44:01]: "We're nearly at the conclusion of Eric Adams's bid to dismiss the criminal charges against him with the assistance of the DOJ."

The DOJ, led by Emil Beauvais, seeks to dismiss the charges without prejudice, allowing the possibility of future indictments.

b. Legal Arguments and Judicial Response

Paul Clement, a prominent attorney, submits an amicus brief arguing for dismissal with prejudice, effectively preventing future charges:

• Alison Gill [46:00]: "Paul Clement says... Judge Ho should dismiss this case with prejudice."

Judge Dale Ho has canceled the hearing post-brief submission, awaiting further developments.

• Andy McCabe [49:23]: "Judge Ho could just be throwing his hands up."

The debate centers on whether the dismissal should allow for future prosecutions or be final.

6. Listener Questions

a. Eric Adams's Potential Future Charges

A listener from Australia, Dallas, inquires about the possibility of additional charges against Eric Adams following a dismissal with prejudice.

• Andy McCabe [54:27]: "There's no possibility of new prosecution under a different term."

Alison Gill concurs, indicating that a dismissal with prejudice would bar related future charges.

b. Supreme Court’s Immunity Decision

Mike from Atlanta raises concerns about the Supreme Court's decision on presidential immunity:

• Mike [58:56]: "Doesn't the Supreme Court decision just mean that Trump can't be prosecuted for the decisions defined illegal actions? However, that decision doesn't prohibit a court from providing remedies to the victims of the illegal actions."

Alison Gill clarifies that civil cases continue to progress, allowing victims to seek remedies despite presidential immunity in criminal prosecutions.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Alison Gill and Andy McCabe wrap up the episode by emphasizing the ongoing challenges within the DoJ under the Trump administration. They acknowledge the continuous erosion of public integrity and the complexities surrounding legal battles against high-profile political figures.

• Andy McCabe [61:36]: "All kinds of crazy things happening and I'm sure we can count on that being repeated next week."

The hosts encourage listeners to submit further questions and remain engaged with the evolving political and legal landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Andy McCabe [00:08]: "The Trump administration is gutting the Justice Department's unit that oversees prosecutions of public officials accused of corruption."

• Alison Gill [05:03]: "Under Cohen's leadership, OCDETF was responsible for operations targeting drug cartels and organized crime across the United States."

• Andy McCabe [09:02]: "The Trump administration is gutting the justice department's unit that oversees prosecutions of public officials accused of corruption."

• David Laughman [10:51]: "The only reasonable interpretation of this extraordinary action is that the administration wants to transfer responsibility for public corruption cases from career attorneys to political appointees."

• Alison Gill [15:09]: "They fired the pardon attorney because she wouldn't let Mel Gibson have his gun back."

• Andy McCabe [17:01]: "The law strips your gun rights if you are convicted of a felony or a misdemeanor involving domestic violence... Oyer found herself in a position where she just couldn't ethically agree to add him to this list."

• Alison Gill [24:04]: "She granted the temporary restraining order... it's like the DOJ thinks those sections of the executive order are poison pills."

• Judge Beryl Howell [24:04]: "It sends little chills down my spine to hear arguments that a president can punish individuals in companies like this."

• Andy McCabe [40:53]: "He's not going to open an investigation. The ground he's going to stand on is DOJ's official mandate is to investigate the actions of DOJ employees. So Martin is not an employee yet, technically."

• Andy McCabe [54:27]: "There's no possibility of new prosecution under a different term."

• Andy McCabe [60:50]: "The Supreme Court decision... indicated a broader interest on the part of the Supreme Court to expand the role of the presidency and the power that the President has."

Final Notes

Alison Gill and Andy McCabe provide a critical examination of the Trump administration's influence over the Department of Justice, highlighting the potential threats to public integrity and civil liberties. Through detailed analysis and authoritative insights, UnJustified underscores the importance of maintaining independent legal institutions in the face of political overreach.

For more information, visit mswmedia.com.