Podcast Summary: UnJustified – "Hostis Curiae"

Date: December 7, 2025
Hosts: Allison Gill (creator, Mueller, She Wrote) and Andrew McCabe (former Deputy Director, FBI)
Podcast: UnJustified, MSW Media
Episode Theme:
The episode explores the ongoing erosion of civil liberties and rule of law under the Trump Department of Justice, covering developments such as questionable military actions, politicized prosecutions, the outcome of the January 6 pipe bomber investigation, and recurring ethical violations by officials like Kash Patel.

Main Themes and Purpose

• Erosion of institutional norms under Trump’s DOJ and broader executive apparatus, with focus on legal overreach, questionable military decisions, and undermining of ethical guardrails.
• Checks and failures of oversight—when and how internal/external accountability works or doesn’t.
• Weaponization of investigations against political enemies, and the persistence of prosecutorial efforts beyond legal merit.
• Transparency, misinformation, and the use of public resources by top officials.
• The hosts’ frustration with the normalization of egregious conduct and lack of ethical standards at the highest levels.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Illegal Boat Strikes in the Caribbean

• Incident: The US conducted "double tap" drone strikes on suspected drug boats in the Caribbean, killing shipwrecked crew.
• Legal and Constitutional Issues:
  • Andy McCabe criticizes the rationale:

    “The administration's position that we are at war with Venezuela. We are very clearly not at war with Venezuela... The Constitution gives the power to declare war to Congress, not to the President.” [03:09]

  • The “double tap” strike (hitting survivors) is explicitly cited in DOD war crimes training as an illegal order.
  • Ongoing comparisons to the Obama-era use of force are misapplied:

    "Anwar al-Awlaki was unquestionably the leader of AQAP... This was not some drug boat out in the Caribbean with a bunch of unknown people on it." [08:13]

• Oversight Failure:
  • Congressional indifference until particularly egregious events draw attention.
  • DOJ (Office of Legal Counsel) provided blessing for program, paralleling post-9/11 torture memo rationales.
  • "You have to wonder if we're kind of backing our way into a similar situation like that now." – McCabe [11:29]
• Potential for Criminal Liability:
  • Immunity/pardons as a shield for officials, referencing Trump’s pardon of Eddie Gallagher.

2. The DOJ vs. Letitia James and James Comey

• Attempted Prosecutions:
  • DOJ fails for a second time to indict NY AG Letitia James on mortgage fraud charges, after disqualification of previous prosecutor (Lindsey Halligan).
  • Host summary: Grand jury dismissed the indictment swiftly—“by lunchtime, they were adjourned. So it was nonsense.” [13:48]
• Personnel Legitimacy Issues:
  • Focus on John Sarcone, a U.S. Attorney who "appointed himself," and ongoing legal challenges to his legitimacy.
• Vindictive Prosecution Risks:
  • Repeated failed attempts could establish a strong claim of selective/vindictive prosecution, opening the government to challenge about grand jury conduct:

    “If Letitia James were indicted... why did juries one, two, and three say no, but jury four said yes? What did you say to them?” – Gill [16:03]

• Compromised Evidence:
  • Gov’t Accountability Office investigating how pivotal mortgage documents were obtained.
  • Eric Swalwell sues over illegal document seizure, further muddying the evidence in James’s case.
• Comey Case Potential Collapse:
  • Material seized outside the scope of warrants; ongoing legal efforts by Dan Richman to block use of improperly seized files.
  • Judge already found the government overreached:

    “Judge William Fitzpatrick found that the government likely seized materials outside the scope of the original warrants and held onto that information for years...” [19:29]

• Civil Suit Potential:
  • If Richman wins, could result in damages for Fourth Amendment violations.

3. Pipe Bomber Arrest – Motive Withheld, Politics Invoked

• Breaking News:
  • The FBI has arrested Brian Cole for planting pipe bombs at DNC/RNC headquarters January 5, 2021.
  • Charges: transporting an explosive device with intent to kill; attempted malicious destruction.
  • Charges carry up to 20 years each.
• Revelations and Motives:
  • Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino admits previous claims about an “inside job” were unfounded:

    “I was paid in the past for my opinions. One day I will be back in that space. But that's not what I'm paid for now. I'm paid to be your deputy director and we base investigations on facts.” [23:07]

  • A rare admission that prior conspiracy theories were profit-driven, not reality-based.
• Host Critique:
  • McCabe rebukes leadership for belittling years of investigative work by prior teams:

    “To do it at the expense of your own people and try to make them look like a bunch of slugs, and aren’t they lucky that we showed up and fix the case for them all, that's just really a horrible thing to do...” [24:18]

• Affidavit Anomalies:
  • Notably scant detail on the suspect’s political motives and January 6th connections—departure from standard January 6 case affidavits.
  • “When you leave out details... you leave a vacuum for conspiracy theorists... For the first 24 hours... right wing influencers... saying this is an antifa, anti-Trump, woke Marxist, radical left, Democrat, blah, blah, blah.” – Gill [26:21]
• Evidence & Confession:
  • Forensic investigation through bomb components + phone records + car movements.
  • Cole confessed to being a Trump supporter and election denier.
• Possible Pardon Coverage:
  • Speculation whether Trump’s broad January 6th pardon could apply.

    “I hereby grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to all other individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021.” [35:34]

  • Debate as to whether the bomb planting (on Jan 5) “relates” to Jan 6 events; and if pending indictments are covered.

4. House Subpoenas and The Jack Smith Report

• Subpoena of Jack Smith:
  • Jim Jordan orders Smith to appear in a closed-door deposition (Smith had asked for a public hearing).
  • Smith’s lawyer, Peter Koski:

    “We are disappointed that offer was rejected and that the American people will be denied the opportunity to hear directly from Jack on these topics.” [40:27]

• Transparency and Motives:
  • Host derision over “transparency” claims for closed hearings.
• Phone Records Dispute:
  • DOJ subpoenaed two and a half years of Jordan’s phone records; questions of overreach surface even among Democrats.
  • Rep. Raskin refers to Smith’s subpoenas as “narrowly tailored,” criticizing the broader unrelated requests.
• Unsealing Jack Smith Report:
  • Efforts to release Volume 2 of Jack Smith’s Jan 6 report after the dropping of charges against Nauta & De Oliveira.
  • 11th Circuit has ordered Judge Cannon to rule by Jan 2; Trump has filed to intervene as “amicus curiae” (friend of the court), prompting Gill to joke the real term is “hostis curiae” (enemy of the court) [46:01].

5. Kash Patel's Misuse of FBI Resources

• Personal Security Details for Girlfriend:
  • Patel directs that FBI tactical agents provide separate security to his girlfriend and, on multiple occasions, to drive her inebriated friends home from social events.
  • Agents and officials are outraged at the misuse:

    “Not only is the assignment of FBI SWAT personnel to a security detail to protect his girlfriend inappropriate, directing these highly trained professionals to babysit his girlfriend's friend is outrageous and demonstrative of Kash Patel's complete lack of judgment and integrity.” – Chris O’Leary, former FBI agent [51:27]

• Bureauwide Morale Issues:
  • Patel reportedly lacks the respect of agents and leadership qualities; erupts in tantrums, demands special treatment (insisted on a medium-sized raid jacket for cameras).
  • “It’s so disrespectful... this... is a morale crusher. He thinks we are his pawns.” – McCabe [60:48]
• Contrast with Past Norms:
  • Host and guests contrast Patel’s conduct with their own strict adherence to ethics and stewardship of taxpayer dollars.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On War Powers and Illegal Orders:

  “The Constitution gives the power to declare war to Congress, not to the President.” (McCabe, [03:09])
  “Blatantly illegal... The whole thing is just, it's confounding.” (McCabe, [05:33])

• On Vindictive Prosecution:

  “If Letitia James were indicted... why did juries one, two, and three say no, but jury four said yes? What did you say to them?” (Gill, [16:03])

• On Ethics and Misuse of Public Resources:

  “This is clearly a long way from that. Yeah. I guess holding her hair back is not in the FBI field guide.” (Gill, [51:45])

• Acknowledging Conspiracy Grift:

  “I was paid in the past for my opinions... that's not what I'm paid for now. I'm paid to be your deputy director and we base investigations on facts.” (Dan Bongino, [23:07])

• On Pardon Coverage:

  "There is plenty of room for a lawyer defending this young man to say this indictment should be dismissed." (McCabe, [35:34])

• On the DOJ Beat:

  “Do you think we’ll have enough news to cover the Department of Justice?... Little did we know, the soup sandwich that was becoming the Department of Justice.” (Gill/McCabe, [66:18])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:00] Illegal boat strikes & Signalgate; war crimes context
• [12:31] DOJ’s failed indictment efforts against Letitia James
• [22:11] Arrest of D.C. pipe bomber Brian Cole, discussion of evidence and motives
• [29:39] Analysis of the affidavit and investigative tactics
• [35:34] Trump’s January 6 pardon—could it shield the pipe bomber?
• [39:19] House Judiciary subpoenas of Jack Smith, transparency debate
• [44:02] Fight over unsealing Jack Smith’s Volume 2
• [48:33] Kash Patel’s misuse of FBI resources, including the incident of FBI detail as a personal chauffeur
• [61:35] Listener Q&A: Presidential pardon authority in military cases

Listener Q&A Segment

[61:35]

• Does the president have pardon power over military court convictions?
  • Yes—President can directly intervene in military justice outcomes; cited the Eddie Gallagher case.
• Can a president be tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice?
  • No—the president is a civilian, not subject to UCMJ.

Conclusion

• Theme: The normalization of corruption, legal overreach, and disregard for ethics at the highest levels within DOJ and other federal agencies under recent leadership.
• Hosts’ Message: Watchdogs, oversight, and a vigilant public are essential as the usual guardrails and norms seem to be failing.
• Tone: Frustration, exasperation, and at times, gallows humor—pierced by genuine concern for the fate of American institutions.

For Further Listening

• Ad-free, detailed discussions and breaking analysis every week on UnJustified.
• Submit your questions through the episode’s show notes link.

End of Summary