Andy McCabe (1:59)

And I'm Andy McCabe. Allison. We have so much Justice Department news to get to today. It's hard to know where to start. But something absolutely insane happened this week during a habeas petition hearing in Minneapolis. So last week, we talked about Judge Schlitz threatening contempt for ICE Chief Todd Lyons for failing to follow a court order to release a man from detention. Okay, so after ICE released him, Judge Schlitz noted that by his count, ICE had ignored over 90. Okay, not nine, not 19, but nine. Zero. 90 court orders across 74 cases, pointing out the state of emergency in the courts caused by Operation Metro surge in Minneapolis.

Allison Gill (2:44)

Yeah, and he went on to say, that's not even a full count. That's just what a bunch of incredibly busy judges could come up with off the top of their heads.

Andy McCabe (2:51)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (2:51)

And as if to illustrate the overwhelming number of cases Department of Justice lawyers are dealing with, Fox 9 in Minneapolis reported a federal judge in Minnesota, Judge Jerry Blackwell demanded to know why Immigration and Customs Enforcement is not complying with court orders and failing to immediately release immigrants who are being wrongfully detained as part of Operation Metro Surge. A government attorney responded that the federal government system sucks. Her name is Julie.

Andy McCabe (3:17)

Can't argue with that one.

Allison Gill (3:19)

Her name is Julie Lee. She's an attorney working on behalf of the U.S. attorney's office and that's what she admitted in court Tuesday that the government is overwhelmed by the number of legal challenges coming out of Operation Metro Surge.

Andy McCabe (3:33)

Quote, I am here to make sure the agency understands how important it is to comply with court orders, said Lee, who became visibly emotional during the court hearing. While Lee said that procedures are being implemented to ensure ICE complies with court orders moving forward, she admitted it has been like pulling teeth and has required non stop work in an already depleted office. Quote, I wish you would just hold me in contempt of court so I can get 24 hours of sleep, she said. The system sucks. This job sucks. I'm trying with every breath to get you what I need. The judge then said, some of this is of your own making because of non compliance with orders. Blackwell further expressed a frustration that people with no criminal records are being wrongfully detained even after judges have ordered their immediate release. He said there are too many detainees and too many cases in the ongoing immigration operation that is clearly outpacing logistics.

Allison Gill (4:33)

Yeah. And then Lee volunteered to help the U.S. attorney's office last month as habeas petitions started to flood into federal court. She previously worked as an attorney for ICE in immigration court. Now ICE has its own court policies and procedures and was not prepared to argue cases in federal court. And that's according to Lee. Quote, we have no guidance or direction on what we need to do, she said.

Andy McCabe (4:58)

According to Ryan Riley at NBC, Lee was assigned 88 federal cases in less than a month, per a court docket search. Sixteen of those cases had action on their dockets the day she broke down in court. And According to Scott McFarland at CBS, another eight prosecutors are leaving the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. And that's in addition to the six that left after the murders of Renee Good and Alex preddy.

Allison Gill (5:24)

Yeah, and four of these prosecutors are ones who spearheaded the $250 million Minnesota fraud case. They will not be in court at the next trial because they've all left the U.S. attorney's office in the District of Minnesota in recent days, along with more than a dozen others in a growing wave of resignations. The departures have left the already diminished office with as few as, get this, Andy, 17 AUSAs Assistant U.S. attorneys. And that's according to sources inside the office. That's down from 70 during the Biden administration.

Andy McCabe (5:57)

Wow. The mass exodus we're seeing in Minnesota is alarming, said Stacy Young, founder of Justice Connection, a Washington, D.C. based organization of former Justice Department employees. She said we should all pay attention to why some of the state's top federal prosecutors chose to leave. It had nothing to do with political disagreement. Rather, this administration asked them to violate their legal and ethical responsibilities and they believe the exit was their only option. Young said the loss of institutional knowledge and expertise will destabilize the U.S. attorney's office, leaving Minnesotans safety and rights less protected.

Allison Gill (6:37)

Yeah, and another person who spoke on the condition of anonymity, I read from, I think it was a Scott McFarlane who reported on this said that that like crimes are slipping through the cracks because in Minnesota, because the U.S. attorney's office is flooded with habeas petitions of people who need to be released, they're not following court orders over at ice. And that all sort of led to Lee like breaking down in front of the judge and saying, look, just, it sucks. The system sucks. Hold me in contempt so I can get some sleep. And I mean, have you ever seen anything? I mean, obviously not, right?

Andy McCabe (7:15)

No, no, of course not. I mean, but this is just, just insane. She, of course, has already been fired. They threw her out of the office, like I Guess canceled her TDY and sent her back to her original job in D.C. and when she got there, they fired her officially. I wanted to also shed a little bit of light on one of the comments she made. I think this is an important distinction. So like ICE litigators, they work in immigration courts, which are not the normal federal courts. Right? You're not standing in front of a federal court judge who was nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. You are in front of an administrative judge. It's just an employee essentially of the Justice Department. So habeas petitions have to be filed in federal court. So if you've been illegally detained in the immigration system, you don't file a habeas petition in the immigration system. You go and actually file a lawsuit essentially in federal court. And the purpose of that suit is to get you in front of a judge to, to have a judge Adjudicate whether your detention is lawful. So that's why there's kind of. Now you got Julie Lee, she's just one example, but she's been thrown into federal court. She doesn't even normally work there. That's what she's talking about when she says, we don't have the guidance, we don't know what we're doing here. Might also shed some light on why they're violating so many court orders. Like, the whole thing just like, doesn't connect because they've never, ever done this on this scale before.

Allison Gill (8:42)

Yeah, it's, you know, she, she had a lot to say about it as well, because she is Vietnamese and she's like, look, look at me, I'm not white. And so, you know, this is obviously hitting me in different ways than, than it would hit somebody else. I hadn't heard that she had been fired once she was returned to, to immigration court. So again, the. Add that to the six the week before, the eight this week, the four people from the fraud case, dozens of people down to 17 from 70. And then you move her out back to immigration court. And you know, Trump has fired tons of immigration judges and as well as in, in that system under the executive branch. Now, she wasn't a judge, but they're also hanging on by a thread. And so when you have habeas petitions that deal with immigration, those two sides just aren't talking to each other. And the Department of Justice is woefully unprepared and just doesn't have the infra infrastructure to deal with it. And that led to her saying, just my cousin Vinnie, hold me in contempt so that I can get some sleep tonight.

Andy McCabe (9:56)

Yeah. And, and just to be clear, like, I never had a situation like this, fortunately, but as an example, in 2015, we had a really massive crime wave happening in different cities, but particularly in Chicago. And like, the way that you address that on a temporary level just to knock the crime rate down, to get out in front of what's happening is by surging US Attorneys into that city. Because what you need to do in that moment is like, you need to fully prosecute more like gun cases. So you, you surge a bunch of attorneys in there and it literally can have like a very perceptible, quantifiable impact on lowering the crime rate. So now think about being in Minnesota. You just lost what, I can't do that math, but 80% of that office or something. I mean, like, you're going to see it in an elevated crime rate. It's Almost, it's almost unavoidable.

Allison Gill (10:53)

Yeah. And I have to wonder if it's by design.

Andy McCabe (10:56)

Yeah, maybe. Might be.

Allison Gill (10:57)

You get an elevated crime rate in, in Minneapolis and all of a sudden the Trump administration's crime is out of control. We gotta send the national card. So, you know, this is not a very tough on crime president, but, you know, you couldn't say that about somebody who pardons 1500 violent criminals, at least 150 of which assaulted police officers on January 6, many of which are recidivists. So we'll keep our eye on it. And it's. And also, you know, you got to think that with the 700 or so police force locally there in Minneapolis, they're also tied up in a lot of this immigration stuff and are. So I imagine the local crime off DA and state attorney general are also kind of stretched pretty thin at this point.

Andy McCabe (11:47)

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Just another impact.

Allison Gill (11:51)

Yeah, it's, it's a ripple effect. Right. Everything that happens impacts everything else. All right, we have some more news regarding the murders of Alex Preddy and Renee Good. But we have to take a quick break, so everybody stick around. We'll be right back.

Andy McCabe (12:10)

I'm Brian Caram and I've spent decades covering politics.

Allison Gill (12:13)

Now.

Andy McCabe (12:14)

Now I'm taking you behind the scenes one interview at a time. Join us as each week Brian confronts the issues that matter, posing the questions you wish you could ask. No filter, no agenda, just the truth. We're not here for sound bites. We're here for substance. Join me, Brian Caram. Every week as we cut through the noise and get straight to it. This is just Ask the Question where curiosity will lead us to the facts. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, when you want answers, all you have to do is just ask the question.

Allison Gill (12:58)

All right, everybody, welcome back. Like I said before the break, we have more news regarding the investigations into the murders of Alex Pretty and Renee Good. This is from Scott McFarland at CBS. A half dozen former U.S. capitol insurrection prosecutors. Okay, these are DOJ guys who helped prosecute the January 6th case. Men and women who helped lead the largest criminal prosecution in American history. For all intents and purposes, they have actually crafted a strategy memo to prompt Congress to investigate potential misconduct by federal immigration agents. Now, it's a four page memo. It was obtained by CBS last Sunday and it details a series of investigative recommendations for congressional committees to probe allegations of excessive force and other violations by ICE and Customs and Border Protection in Minneapolis. The group of prosecutors recommends congressional investigators use Some of the same tools and techniques that they employed that the justice department employed between 2021 and 2025 when they investigated the Capitol siege, during which more than 140 police officers were injured and more than 1500 defendants were arrested.

Andy McCabe (14:08)

The recommendations were shared with ranking members of the House Homeland Security Committee, the House Judiciary Committee, and the Oversight Committee. In the wake of the killing of Renee Good and Alex Preddy in Minneapolis, the Justice Department declined to open an investigation of the agent who shot and killed Good. While they were criticized for equivocating about an investigation into Preddy's killing, former prosecutors, each of whom departed the Justice Department in 2025 after President Trump's inauguration, recommended that Congress hire a group of former FBI and Homeland Security agents who are familiar with the use of force policies.

Allison Gill (14:45)

Huh. So we have, like, shadow agents, shadow DOJ people, shadow FBI people, shadow DHS people coming together to help Congress investigate. Disuse of force stuff.

Andy McCabe (14:58)

Yeah. To help one half of Congress investigate.

Allison Gill (15:02)

Excuse me. Yeah. So a little less than half. The prosecutor's memo comes amid concerns that the Trump administration is not vigorously pursuing leads in the Minneapolis killings and other related allegations of misconduct involving federal immigration enforcement personnel. Quote, the Department of Justice has no apparent interest in investigating CBP and ICE crimes, so it will fall to Congress to do a comprehensive national investigation into these agencies misconduct. That's Brendan Ballou, well known. We talked about him a lot during the January 6th investigations. He's one of the six former prosecutors who issued the memo, quote, by preserving evidence now, Congress can tee up prosecutions in the future, which in turn will discourage CBP and ICE misconduct in the present. Meaning when we flip the house, ladies and gentlemen.

Andy McCabe (15:52)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (15:53)

So that's interesting. I think this is really fascinating that groups of former federal employees in FBI, Department of Homeland Security. I know a group of Department of Homeland Security lawyers came out and wrote a op ed for the New York Times saying, no, you need a judicial warrant to go into people's homes. But they're. They're getting together, and former prosecutors of the DOJ are getting together and saying we should. We don't work there anymore. But that doesn't mean we can't advise Congress on how to conduct these investigations since we know Department of Justice won't do it.

Andy McCabe (16:27)

Yeah, no, I think it's a really interesting idea. I applaud the fact that they're getting creative about, like, what can we actually do in this moment? And yeah, there is, you know, if the midterms go their way, there's an opportunity to get something done investigatively, you know, while any potential crimes are still well within their statute of limitations. The problem is then getting the current Department of Justice to do something about it. You know, you can do the investigation, you can kind of build a case, but like actually picking up a case and bringing it into court, obviously not going to happen until the entire thing gets turned over potentially in 2028 and you get a new DOJ at the beginning of 29. So it's, it's a lot of work, but certainly it's an interesting idea that.

Allison Gill (17:19)

Might help people who are trying to decide who to vote for in 2028. Like if, if they do a, we flip the House, we do a full investigation, we've got a lot of really damning evidence and we want to make a referral. You say, hey, vote for a, vote for a Democrat so we can make this referral, you know.

Andy McCabe (17:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Allison Gill (17:41)

It'll be interesting to see how they, what, how Congress responds, what they do. But I think this is a great idea.

Andy McCabe (17:49)

Yeah, totally. Look, we saw with the Jan6 committee, we saw the effect that that sort of a thorough investigation can have on federal prosecutors sometimes. So you never know.

Allison Gill (17:59)

Yeah.

Andy McCabe (17:59)

And in a related story, we have an update on the judge that ordered the federal government to preserve evidence in the killing of Alex Preddy. So this is from Politico. Federal agents in Minnesota appear to have mishandled the firearm they grabbed from Alex Preddy's waistband during last month's fatal struggle, a judge declared on Monday. But U.S. district Judge Eric Tostrude, am I pronouncing that correctly?

Allison Gill (18:24)

AG I haven't heard his name pronounced, so yes.

Andy McCabe (18:27)

All right, we'll go with. Tostrud found that the apparent error, as well as inflammatory statements by the White House and Trump administration officials was not enough to justify his continued superv of the handling of evidence from the scene of Preddy's death in Minneapolis on January 24th.

Allison Gill (18:45)

Boo.

Andy McCabe (18:46)

Boo.

Allison Gill (18:47)

In an 18 page ruling. Boo.

Andy McCabe (18:49)

Boo. The judge.

Allison Gill (18:51)

Boo. The judge toastrude on in his 18 page ruling said that he would lift his own restraining order that he granted last week after state and local officials raised alarm that the Department of Homeland Security personnel may have failed to safeguard crucial evidence from the crime scene. Quote. Though the record is not one sided, the greater weight of the evidence shows that the defendants, that's the government is not likely to destroy or improperly alter evidence related to Mr. Preddy's shooting during the life of this case and other relevant considerations do not, on balance, favor a continuing preservation Order. So he's a Trump appointed judge. He issued a temporary restrain where we talked about it last week, like, hey, if you're going to try to get evidence, like get a warrant to get evidence from the federal government, preservation order is first. So he's now lifting this temporary restraining order, saying it's the record's not one sided, but he's actually giving the presumption of regularity to the federal government that they won't destroy or screw with evidence. I think this is interesting.

Andy McCabe (19:56)

Yeah. So while the judge agreed to allow federal officials to continue their investigation without restriction from the court, he coupled that conclusion with a sharp criticism of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem over their public comments painting Preddy as someone with the intention of killing federal law enforcement agents. Quote, these statements are troubling. Tostrud wrote. They reflect not a genuine interest in learning the truth, but snap judgments informed by speculation and motivated by political partisanship.

Allison Gill (20:33)

Well, then keep the thing in place.

Andy McCabe (20:35)

I mean, these statements are troubling. They're worse than troubling, Judge. I mean, I applaud your sense of decorum, but geez Louise, these statements are batshite crazy.

Allison Gill (20:47)

I mean, I know. Totally untrue. Toastrud said some evidence was probably damaged or lost in the initial hours of the investigation when state officials were initially denied access to the shooting scene by the feds, who later retreated, leaving the area unsecured. But he attributed any compromises to the volatile crowd that forced agents from the scene. I. I disagree with that characterization of what happened. He said that that's what it was, rather than failures by federal agents or breaches of investigative protocol. Oh, so they're just incompetent, scared idiots, not, you know, criminally minded people who want to destroy evidence. Okay, all right, great. He said the record here shows the loss or spoliation more likely resulted from exigent circumstances, not from the defendant's substandard evidence gathering or preservation activities. So I disagree with him. This will be appealed, I'm sure. I don't know if you can appeal. I guess it's. If you're. If he's denying a preliminary injunction, I guess that could be appealed. We'll see. We'll keep an eye on it for you, though.

Andy McCabe (21:58)

Yeah, I. I don't know, man. It's. These are the kind of orders that district court judges have enormous kind of say, right? This is not the kind of thing that an appellate court would typically go back in and re Judge. This judge's view of the facts. So there's that. The other thing is it feels a little bit like the failure of. I think it was Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie who filed this.

Allison Gill (22:25)

Yeah. The guys who wanted to have the judge appoint a special master. Right.

Andy McCabe (22:29)

And the judge basically said, nice try, but I don't really have any. Any standing to get involved in this thing.

Allison Gill (22:36)

Right.

Andy McCabe (22:37)

Because the case was not in front of him. He didn't have something to. Essentially something to litigate. That's kind of what this has always felt like to me.

Allison Gill (22:46)

Yeah. What they're basically trying addiction, and they. The. They have standing. He didn't dismiss it on those things. He just. He just feels that we should trust the government here.

Andy McCabe (22:56)

I get that. But. But there's a. There's a similarity in that. Like, what the government. What the plaintiffs were trying to do here is basically get this judge to perform oversight of the doj, and courts are reluctant to do that. Right. There's Congress supposed to be doing that. There's other means of doing that, none of which work at the moment. But so you see, the. The judiciary kind of like digging in their heels a little bit, like, saying, yeah, this looks a little strange, but we're not going in.

Allison Gill (23:25)

Well, we'll keep an eye on it and see. See what happens. I mean, we still don't have any understanding that the feds are handing over any evidence to, you know, the local prosecutors in. In Minneapolis for either of these cases. And I haven't heard anything since Todd Blanche said that the Civil Rights Division would open an investigation into Preddy's murder. But we don't. We still don't have a lot of details on that, but once we get them, we'll let you know.

Andy McCabe (23:53)

All right.

Allison Gill (23:54)

We have some interesting stuff going on with our Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, and we're going to speak about that after this quick break. Stick around. We'll be right back.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (24:11)

Hi, I'm Frances Collier. And I'm Angela V. Shelton. And we're Frangela. You know what you need in your life? The Final Word podcast. Yes, you do.

Allison Gill (24:20)

That's right.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (24:20)

It is the final word on all things political and pop cultural, where we make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can hashtag, resist, subscribe, and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week. It's the news we think you need to hear.

Allison Gill (24:36)

That's right.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (24:36)

We think you need to hear it.

Allison Gill (24:38)

Okay. Yeah.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (24:39)

It's what we say, so. That's right. And because all we do is give. Every Thursday, you can listen to our hysterical podcast, Idiot of the Week. We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to.

Allison Gill (24:50)

Okay? All we do is give.

Andy McCabe (24:58)

Welcome back. Okay, next up, we told you last week that Tulsi Gabbard was present during an FBI raid of Fulton County, Georgia, election offices. And now we have more information on that. So from the times, we have. By any measure, the FBI's search of an election center in Fulton County, Georgia, last week was extraordinary. Agents seized truckloads of 2020 ballots as president Trump harnessed the levers of government to not only buttress his false claims of widespread voter fraud, but also to try to build a criminal case against those he believed wronged him behind closed doors. Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, met with some of the same FBI agents, members of the Bureau's field office in Atlanta, which is conducting the election inquiry. Three people with knowledge of the meeting said they could not say why Ms. Gabbard, who also appeared on site at the search, was there. But her continued presence has raised eyebrows given that her role overseeing the nation's intelligence agencies does not include on site involvement in criminal investigative work.

Allison Gill (26:07)

Oh, weird. So what occurred during that meeting was even further outside the bounds of normal law enforcement procedure. Ms. Gabbard used her cell phone to call Donald Trump, who didn't pick up initially, but called her right back shortly after. And the President addressed the agents on speakerphone, asking them questions, as well as praising and thanking them for their work on the inquiry. That's bonkers.

Andy McCabe (26:38)

I mean, yes.

Allison Gill (26:39)

Andy, do you have. I mean, how many. Who among us, how many times have you done a search and the President gives you a call and says, great job on that search. Did you find anything? What do you. How did it go with the DNI there with you? I mean, it happens all the time, right?

Andy McCabe (26:54)

Good job, kiddo. No, that didn't happen really, ever. In fact, there was a couple of insanely weird, unprecedented times when the then president, same guy, reached out and called the director of the FBI, and we were like, oh, my God, he called the director. Like, that was crazy to us. We thought, like, this is nuts, man. He's not supposed to talk to us about investigations and stuff. And yet he did. So, like, this is like reaching, I don't know, down past the director, past every leader in the entire organization, down to the men and women who are on the ground doing the work. Like, if you wanted to create a better scenario for, like, unlawful command interference sort of thing, like politically biasing the work of agents who are supposed to be unbiased and apolitical in the course of an investigation like this. Was it. This is the perfect example of that. And I suspect we'll hear that later in some kind of litigation that comes out of this.

Allison Gill (27:56)

Yeah. Although honestly, I don't think this investigation is intended to get a conviction. I think it's just intended to, you know, give him pretext for seizing voting machines and. Yeah, but I mean, I. If Jack Smith goes back to Congress and they hammer him again on. Did he talk to Joe Biden? Did Joe Biden coordinate this? If I'm Jack Smith, my answer would be like, oh, like when President Trump called the FBI agents after seizing ballots in Georgia, like that. No, no, I never had that kind of a phone call.

Andy McCabe (28:31)

He never called us. No one called us. We did. We're not called. And they did not send the DNI over to accompany us on any of our jobs or work.

Allison Gill (28:40)

Yeah, no.

Andy McCabe (28:41)

Oh, no.

Allison Gill (28:42)

Joe Biden didn't send Avril Haines down to Mar A Lago with us, and we didn't talk to him on the phone that day.

Andy McCabe (28:49)

It just didn't imagine how, how insane people would have got. I mean, you. We would have seen Republican heads exploding all over Capitol Hill.

Allison Gill (28:59)

They would have, they would have a real reason to impeach him.

Andy McCabe (29:02)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Allison Gill (29:03)

To Joe Biden, anyway. Just. God, incredible. And here, let's go over this timeline about why Tulsi was there and the ever moving goalposts from this administration. This is from your colleagues at cnn. When CNN asked Trump last Thursday why Gabbard was there in Georgia, Trump suggested he was well apprised of the situation and that his spy chief was playing a very key role. But later that day, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch sought to put more distance between Gabbard and the investigation. When asked about the situation at a press conference. And the press conference was about the Epstein files, by the way. But when asked about this situation, Blanche appeared somewhat testy about the subject. She happened to be present in Atlanta, he said, initially making it sound like a coincidence that she, she was down.

Andy McCabe (29:52)

There for a Hawks game and, you.

Allison Gill (29:54)

Know, she went to Georgia. She was looking for a soul to steal and just happened to be there at this FBI right now.

Andy McCabe (30:02)

Oh, my God. She happened to be present in Atlanta. I mean, John Wilkes Booth happened to go to the theater that night. And so I know, okay, whatever. Okay. But soon after Blanche's Fox interview. And by the way, is there ever a moment when Blanche doesn't look Testy. I feel like that was not necessary in article, but okay. But soon after Blanche's Fox interview, Gabard on Monday night posted a letter to congressional Democrats that indicated that she was quite involved in the matter. Gabard, in her letter, said that her, quote, presence was requested by the President of the United States.

Allison Gill (30:45)

Dude.

Andy McCabe (30:47)

Oh, my God. She ratted me out. Okay. White House press secretary. I can't even get through this. White House press secretary Caroline Levitt later said that Trump had, quote, tapped Gabbard to, quote, oversee the sanctity and the security of our American elections and said she is, quote, working directly alongside the FBI director.

Allison Gill (31:12)

Oh, even better.

Andy McCabe (31:13)

Okay, can we talk about gang get your get your stories straight hour.

Allison Gill (31:18)

I mean, it gets worse. It gets worse, Andy. So, despite Gabbard saying Trump had requested her presence, suggesting he was playing a role in that investigation, the president, at an interview Wednesday spun a different tail. I'm not involved in it. I'm not involved in it. That's what Trump told NBC. But they're inspecting and checking the ballots. But the next morning. That was Wednesday. Thursday, at the National Prayer Breakfast, Trump said Gabbard's presence was owed to a whole new person. Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi.

Andy McCabe (31:52)

Story number four. That's explanation four. If you haven't had one you like yet, we're prepared to give you another one.

Allison Gill (31:58)

Yes. He said, quote, gabbard took a lot of heat because she went at Pam's insistence. Pam, she went in, she looked at votes that want to be checked out from Georgia. The media said, why is she doing it? Right, Pam. Right, Pam. And he looked over at Pam because Pam wanted her to do it. And you know why? Because Pam is smart. That was. That's. So now it's Bondi. All right.

Andy McCabe (32:20)

Oh, my God. And how many votes want to be checked out? Do votes have a want? I mean, I don't. I don't understand the.

Allison Gill (32:27)

I don't know, but it's probably close to 11,780.

Andy McCabe (32:32)

She went in and she looked at the votes. She changed a few. 11,000, to be clear. Oh, my God. Gabbard's office clarified later Thursday that both Trump and Bondi were involved in sending.

Allison Gill (32:51)

Nope. Trump made me do it. Like, she seems like she's. I don't know if she's long for her job. She keeps trying to pull Trump into this.

Andy McCabe (32:58)

What have we learned here, kids? Do not be criming with Tulsi Gabbard, because she is going to put you in the grease, like, immediate mente. Her office went on to say, quote, there's no contradiction. Gabbard spokeswoman Olivia Coleman told cnn, quote, as the President said, he asked for Director Gabbard to be there. Attorney General Bondi also asked for her to be there. Two things can be true at the same time. Not exactly the way this is played out, but okay.

Allison Gill (33:29)

But Trump also said he had nothing to do with it, and he didn't know what anyone was talking about the day before.

Andy McCabe (33:36)

All things can be true at the same time, even though they're totally contradictory. Just go with it.

Allison Gill (33:41)

Yeah. And they actually posted that statement on Twitter as well, because that's the official communications. But then that post on Twitter disappeared, the one that says there's no contradiction.

Andy McCabe (33:55)

And so did Olivia Coleman. No, I made that up. That's a joke.

Allison Gill (34:01)

But the post disappeared from Twitter, and Gabbard's office wouldn't say why. And then when Caroline Levitt was asked at a White House briefing the same day whether Trump had asked for Gabbard to be there there, she avoided the question, citing Trump's NBC interview. And then on Friday, Bondi likewise declined to confirm the Gabbard claim about Bondi's role, saying only she was there. We're inseparable. That's all I can say.

Andy McCabe (34:29)

Hold on a sec. Does that mean Bondi was there, too? Because if you're inseparable, you have to be in the same place at the same time.

Allison Gill (34:38)

It's like, remember when Jim Jordan was asked if he talked to the president on January 6th?

Andy McCabe (34:42)

Yes.

Allison Gill (34:42)

And he was like, well, I don't know. I talk to the president all the time. Don't you talk to the president all the time? I'm in charge of a lot of stuff. I talk to the president all the time, talk to him every day. I don't know if I talk to him on the 6th. Maybe I talked to him on the 6th. I don't know if I talked to him. Why do you keep asking me if I talked to him? This is what it is like trying to nail this down. And this is six different stories that we get according to this fact check by your colleagues over at cnn. It just keeps changing. And that, right in and of itself, Andy, isn't. Can't that kind of thing be used in evidence? As evidence that they're kind of like consciousness of. Of guilt? Like in. In my case, when I talk about my wrongful termination case, the fact that they kept. Kept changing the reason.

Andy McCabe (35:26)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (35:26)

As something that I can introduce as evidence. And so that seems like that's the would be the case here. But again, Trump doesn't care if this gets to conviction or.

Andy McCabe (35:37)

Yeah, it's not going to be evidence of anything. It's evidence of incompetence. And honestly, in these dark days, the strong evidence of incompetence is really one of the most hopeful things I've come across in a long time. Because you feel like they're planning on doing so many things that are illegal, unconstitutional, abusive, but their odds of success are low because they are so wildly incompetent. So I'm just going to keep hope alive with that. Yeah, of course. We also learned from Reuters that Gabbard was seized voting machines in Puerto Rico last spring as a part of an investigation into whether Venezuela and Maduro had interfered in the 2020 election. So here we are again.

Allison Gill (36:22)

What. Who was it last week that was saying, I wonder if they're going to make Maduro confess to some sort of weird collection interference? And all of a sudden this week we get this story from Reuters that she sees voting machines and tabulators in Puerto Rico, who, by the way, can't vote for president and was actively investigating whether Maduro had interfered in the 2020 election. Foreign interference. And that's, you know, I said last week when we first learned about this, that's why she's there in Georgia. She's trying to falsify, fabricate some sort of foreign election interference. Trump's been trying to do it since before January 6th so that he could justify the Pentagon going in and getting voting machines.

Andy McCabe (37:06)

Yeah. Sending thousands of agents down there to snatch that guy in the middle of the night. Is looking, is starting to look so obvious right at the time. We're like, what's the deal? Like, we are not being attacked by Venezuela, despite what you heard earlier last year. We are not being invaded by Venezuelans. And why are we doing this? Why are we provoking this kind of conflict? Well, I mean, the oil certainly a part of it, but you got to think that there's some sort of master plan around here that required the presence of Maduro in a US Jail.

Allison Gill (37:43)

Okay. And I'm going to just add a couple of points here, and I know I should grab my tinfoil hat for this, but what if this was orchestrated? You know, Maduro is the Putin of the, of the Americas, and Putin wants to completely delegitimize our elections. He would love nothing more. And what if that pardon of the drug traffic, notorious drug trafficker, former president of Honduras was kind of like a signal to Maduro, hey, do this. And you know, we got you. I, I feel like now he's in custody, like, it's just everything seems like all roads to me, at least, you know, but I, I started my whole podcasting career with the Mueller investigation, but it seems to me that all roads lead to Putin, Whether it's the Epstein files, whether it's this election stuff, trying to seize voting machines, trying to destabilize Western civilization as we know it, massive election interference. But it's going to be. I'm very interested to see what happens with Maduro in the coming weeks.

Andy McCabe (38:49)

Yeah, I mean, I mean, if you think, like, I don't know the answer to that, but if you think about it, what, what could be a more effective way of destabilizing and interfering with US Elections than by motivating the US, The United States President, to do it himself? So, yeah, I don't know. I, I, but, and, and come, whatever, let's leave the speculation there, but let's look at what we know. And what we do know is this administration has earned our, our skepticism. They lie about things all the time. They lie about things that we all see with our own eyes. They, they falsify photographs of people they've arrested and then push them out as official Washington, you know, I'm sorry, White House statements like, the President, according to the New York Times, enriched himself to the tune of $1.4 billion in his first year in office. So deception and corruption is so rampant that you can't help but speculating about why they're doing the things that they're doing. They have earned this sort of speculation that they're capable of coming up with any cockamamie, corrupt, false scheme.

Allison Gill (40:15)

Yeah, agreed. And something else, by the way, involving Tulsi Gabbard. One quick last note here. There is now a whistleblower report that was made last May, and it sat there, Tulsi Gabbard didn't send it to Congress for eight months. Okay.

Andy McCabe (40:36)

She's supposed to do it within 21 days. 21 days is the law. But anyway.

Allison Gill (40:42)

Yeah, and this kind of reminded me of the Zelensky thing. And there's a lot of similarities with the Zelensky call. Right. First of all, apparently, Gabbard is being accused of stashing this in a classified manner, using classification to keep eyes off of it and not disseminate it to the proper agency she's supposed to disseminate it to. And then this didn't get sent to Congress in a timely fashion. And with the Zelensky call, that was stashed in a code word classified system by a guy named Eisenberg. He's in charge of redacting the Epstein files, by the way. And also the DNI at the time, Joseph McGuire took almost a month, three weeks, a little over three weeks, between three, three and four weeks to transmit it to Congress by law. And everybody was like, I can't believe he delayed it by, you know, a week. Like, can't believe it took a month to get this to Congress. This sat there for eight months. And just like with the Zelinsky call, they have redacted a bunch of it when it finally did get transmitted to Congress saying that executive privilege, which means it involves Donald Trump.

Andy McCabe (41:54)

Right.

Allison Gill (41:54)

And so we don't know what the underlying classification classified information is. There was also account that one of the intelligence agencies didn't proper, didn't make a criminal referral to Department of Justice as they, as they were supposed to by law. And I think we're going to learn a lot more about this particular whistleblower complaint in the coming days and weeks. But I do want to draw everybody's attention that today, Sunday at noon on the Midas Touch Network, noon Pacific time, I will be sitting down for about a 45 minute interview with the attorney of this whistleblower from whistleblower 8. His name is Andrew Buckai. He was also the lawyer who represented the whistleblower in the Zelensky matter. So if you want to check that out, I'll also be sharing it over on substackmillershiroad.com, but it'll be on the Midas Touch Network at noon today Pacific time. But that's fascinating. It's like everything old is new again, Andy.

Andy McCabe (42:54)

Sure is. Sure is.

Allison Gill (42:55)

Yeah. All right, we've got one more quick story about our favorite wackadag paw, Ed Martin. But we have to take a quick break, so stick around. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back. Before we get to listener questions at the end of this segment, and by the way, if you have a question, there's a link in the show notes. You can click on that link and submit a question for, for Andy and me. And before we get to that, Andy the Wackadagpa, the weaponization czar, Associate Deputy Attorney General, Pardon Attorney is no more. Ed Martin is just the paw. He's just the pardon attorney now. He's been relegated.

Andy McCabe (43:40)

Disappointing.

Allison Gill (43:41)

He's been relegated to an office outside Main Justice. Just the plain old pardon attorney. Just one job now. Wow. According to cnn, a Justice Department Review found that Ed Martin improperly handled grand jury materials that were part of an investigation targeting Trump's political enemies. That's at least two sources familiar who spoke to CNN said it was at least part of the reason that Martin was pushed out of the Department of Justice headquarters. The review, which was overseen by Todd Blanche's office, focused on whether grand jury material gathered in the mortgage fraud inquiry into Senator Adam Schiff and New York Attorney General Letitia James had been illegally shared with people not authorized to possess that information. That's according to multiple people briefed on the matter. Ed Martin broke the rules. Andy, can you believe it?

Andy McCabe (44:32)

When confronted, Ed Martin said, what's grand jury material like? I mean, are we surprised by this development? Oh, my gosh. The department found that Martin has shared the secret grand jury material in the Schiff case, one of the sources said. The person said Martin initially denied sharing the material with unauthorized people when asked by the department leaders. But then emails soon surfaced showing that Martin had in fact shared the grand jury material. That, folks, is called lack of candor. That's what I was fired for, allegedly. Of course, I was actually fired for opening the case on Trump, but let's put that aside.

Allison Gill (45:11)

Yeah, I'm wondering if he got fired for that or if he got fired for like, they're like, we don't care if you share grand jury material, just tell us about it. Like.

Andy McCabe (45:22)

Oh, my God. A second person told cnn a finding of misconduct gave the Deputy Attorney General, Testy Todd, a reason to further ostracize Martin. Martin was removed as the head of the so called weaponization working group on the first day of 2026, and he was relocated out of the department headquarters to a building across town that houses the pardon attorney Martin's one remaining role.

Allison Gill (45:46)

Oh, cue.

Andy McCabe (45:46)

Isn't the real pardon attorney. Isn't the real pardon attorney Trump? I mean, you know, it's like that's where the pardons go to happen now. So I don't know that Martin will be too busy now.

Allison Gill (46:01)

Speaking of the weaponization working group, Trump's mad that it's not doing enough. The Justice Department. This is from CNN, too. Justice Department officials are expected to meet tomorrow, Monday to discuss how to re energize the probes that are considered a top priority for Trump, reviewing the actions of officials who have investigated him, according to a source familiar with the plan. How do we bring crimes where there's no crimes? Let's, let's have a meeting. Almost immediately after Pam Bondi stepped into her role as Attorney General Last year, she established the Weapon Weaponization Working Group to weaponize the Department of Justice. No, I'm kidding. But yes, to review law enforcement.

Andy McCabe (46:39)

That's actually true.

Allison Gill (46:41)

She would. She did it to review law enforcement actions taken under the Biden administration for any examples of what she described as politicized justice. She said the group would focus on investigations into Trump conducted by Jack Smith and his staff, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, New York Attorney General Letitia James, and any improper investigations into the January 6 attack on the Capitol. But a year later, the group has not produced anything publicly, nor have they gotten any indictments. I think Save John Bolton, I think, is the only indictment that's still out.

Andy McCabe (47:16)

There which had nothing to do with anything. That case started under Biden. And, you know, they have succeeded in harassing Schiff and Letitia James, but it's with these made up mortgage fraud charges, so. Or not. Schiff hasn't been charged yet, but that's allegedly what he's been investigating.

Allison Gill (47:32)

Lisa Cook, Letitia James, Jim Comey, they're investigating Brennan, you and everybody surrounding that whole intelligence community assessment.

Andy McCabe (47:42)

Yep. Yeah. Okay. So. In recent weeks, Trump has been pressuring Justice Department officials for results in these and other investigations, recently admonishing a group of US Attorneys for failing to deliver on cases he once brought. The Weaponization working group is now expected to start meeting daily with the goal of producing results in the next two months. Wow, that's. These guys are setting high, high goals there. That's according to a person familiar with the plan. Those are gonna be quick meetings. You, like, go around the table like. You got anything? Got anything? No, no, nothing. All right, see you tomorrow. I mean.

Allison Gill (48:17)

Nope. Grand jury. Nope, nope, nope.

Andy McCabe (48:19)

Any convictions yet? How do those convictions happen? I mean.

Allison Gill (48:22)

Yeah. Now the group's efforts are unrelated to the DOJ's individual prosecutions of Trump's political adversaries, according to the group. In addition to now dismissed indictments against Jim Comey and Letitia James, federal prosecutors under Bondi have also brought an indictment against Trump's ex National Security Adviser John Bolton, and opened a criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, and ex CII Director John Brennan and others. Those apparently are not what they're focusing on. They're focusing more on the Jack Smith. January 6th that this is a weaponization working group. Right. They're. They're, they're mostly looking at the investigations into Trump.

Andy McCabe (49:04)

Yeah. Surprise, surprise.

Allison Gill (49:06)

Yeah. All right, looks like we have time for maybe a question or two Again, if you have a question, you can Click on the link in the show notes. Andy, what do we have today?

Andy McCabe (49:15)

So we have two, and you're going to notice a theme here. I picked questions because I'm trying to bring the joy back a little bit. It was a very somber show last week in which I almost lost my mind. But I got such great. There's so many good questions this week. And I went with two that I thought were really, I don't know, they're a little bit different. You'll see. Okay, so the first one comes to us from Kay, who is from Scotland. She says, I love you both so much. My question is, can the president earn any amount of money with no questions asked? Now, Trump made a show of handing over business to his sons during the first term, but he's now openly earning tons of money and promoting his products like crypto, cryptocurrency, where any foreign government can be involved. Another important. Okay, so that's her main question. But then she goes on to say another important question is when you appear on CNN via video link, Andy, are you wearing pajama bottoms? So which, which one would you like me to answer first?

Allison Gill (50:21)

Well, the second part first. And I can add to that when I did my, when I did my Ph.D. oral.

Andy McCabe (50:30)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (50:30)

You know how you have to do.

Andy McCabe (50:31)

That defense of your thesis or your dissertation? Yeah, yeah.

Allison Gill (50:35)

I was on vacation in Hawaii at the time and I was wearing a blazer. On top, it was via Zoom. But on bottom I had my bikini bottoms and tutu and high heels. So I did that on purpose because I just, I wanted to make a thing out of, you know, not, you can't see what's down here. So I had fun with that. How about you?

Andy McCabe (51:00)

So the answer to the pajama question is hell yeah. And especially the early morning. Early morning, the morning show hits. Yeah, there's some pajama action going on there. Like not during the day because I do like get my act together and put on real clothes at some point. But yeah, the pajamas have had a little bit of TV time. You haven't seen it? I hope not. I don't typically get up, but yeah, it's business on top and party on the bottom with these video links from home. I also, here's another secret revealed. Even in the studio hits, I'm always wearing jeans and sneakers because early on I went on Wolf's show once and I don't know you, I'm sure, know this, Allison, but the, the furniture in these sets, it's not like real furniture made at a furniture Company, they just make it, like, somewhere in the building and it's like, kind of slapped together a little bit rough.

Allison Gill (51:57)

Yeah.

Andy McCabe (51:57)

And so I was sitting, I had this new suit on, and I was sitting on with Wolf, and as I got up to leave this jagged piece of metal on the desk, like, ripped a massive hole in my pants. I was so torqued. I was like, I'm never wearing suit pants in here again. So I always wear jeans and sneakers. It doesn't really matter because you don't really ever see that, that side. So, yeah, a little bit of. That's the, that's the behind the look of the TV stuff. All right, so now to the real question. Can the president earn any amount of money with no questions asked? Well, can he? No, he shouldn't. Because they have this thing called the Emoluments clause. It basically says president cannot accept anything, any kind of benefit or payment from a foreign government in his first term. He was actually sued over that by, I think, the State of Maryland. There was. Had one case, and I think there was another one. Both of them fell apart for one reason or another. And I don't, I'm not an expert on, on what happened in those cases, but having dodged that problem and been granted, like, immunity for everything in the whole universe by the Supreme Court, he's now just doing it, and nobody's calling him on it. There's no, I don't think there's any Emoluments clause litigation going right now. And as I mentioned earlier, New York Times says, you know, he's raked. He raked in a 1.4 billion last year. A lot of that off the crypto stuff. It did include the $400 million airplane that the government of the Emirates, United Arab Emirates, has given to him and which he is going to take with him when he leaves Qatar. I'm sorry. Yeah, he's going to take the bank.

Allison Gill (53:35)

Account slush fund holding all the Venezuelan oil money.

Andy McCabe (53:38)

Well, you know, that's just how it goes.

Allison Gill (53:41)

So which Putin and Trump are probably going to give to Maduro after he admits that there was foreign election interference and he gets a pardon. That's not confirmed.

Andy McCabe (53:52)

He gets a share and four rides on the plane per annum.

Allison Gill (53:59)

And this MAGA hat from my collection and some Trump steaks that I found.

Andy McCabe (54:04)

You may bring three friends, but that's.

Allison Gill (54:06)

Next to classified documents in my bathroom.

Andy McCabe (54:09)

Yeah, that's right. No smoking. And Diet Cokes only. All right, so that's that one here. You ready for. Can we have time for one more?

Allison Gill (54:19)

We do have time for one more.

Andy McCabe (54:20)

All right, another quick one first. This comes to us from Will, and Will says first, thank you for the work and dedication. I've been on board since Mueller. She wrote. This week was extra heavy with the news. Souls lost to ice, journalists arrested, voting offices and machines confiscated. It all feels like a wild episode of the show Scandal. My question is, do you have a silly story to tell about your time at the FBI? It's not a great question, asking someone to be funny, but I do need to disassociate a little by changing the vibe to a fun buddy cop movie. So I thought about this as I was picking questions, and I gave it a solid like 15 or 20 seconds, and it came up with a very short one. So I'll give you this one. As a young agent in New York working on the Russian overseas squad, I go out one cold and cloudy afternoon with about, I don't know, maybe 10 people from my squad. Maybe eight. Eight, me plus eight, something like that. And we were going. We had an arrest warrant for a guy who lived in this big apartment building in Brooklyn.

Allison Gill (55:23)

Was it 8 or 10? No wonder you got fired for lacking candor, Andy. My God, you can't even tell.

Andy McCabe (55:29)

The right lack of memory. Because I'm old. I don't know. It was like, a handful. So, like, you know, a bunch of tough guys, we come wheeling up to the front of the building. It was just kind of like, you know, drive our cars up and leave them, like, on the sidewalk. We all jump out of our cars. We've got raid jackets on and, you know, vests and hats and stuff. We didn't have, like, camouflage and everything, like you see in Minnesota, because it was, I guess, simpler time. Okay, yeah. We're just wearing, like, jeans and, like, you know, but carrying some pretty big guns. Everybody's got, like, a shoulder weapon and all this kind of stuff and sidearms and we got, like, zip ties and everything you need for an arrest. We go running up to the front of this place, and the guy's, like, on the fourth floor or something. It's a walk up, or the elevator's not working. I don't know. We end up having to run up the stairs. Now everybody's pretty gassed. By the time we get to the hallway, he's all the way down to the end of the hall.

Allison Gill (56:26)

You have to run up. You try to be all tight. You're running up four flights of stairs. It reminds me of the Rock and Roll hall of Fame induction. Massive stage, right? And axl Rose is running out to the middle of the stage where the microphone is. But, like, he forgets he's a million years old. So he's like. Like, totally winded by the time he gets out to.

Andy McCabe (56:51)

I mean, you know, it's a high note. It's hard to hit them, though. So we get up to the hall, we run it down the hall, and the guys. His door is, like, not on the long walls of the hall. It's, like, at the end, it's just like, his door. And then, you know, like, so. So it's a real funnel. So we're all stacked in there, like, maybe four guys on one side, four on the other. And we're, like, looking at each other. We're so close, and there's just the door in between us. And we're like, all right, who's got the ram? You know, you get the big ram that you got to hit the door with to get it open. And we're all looking at each other like, you got it? No, I thought you had it. I told you to get it. It's in your car. I thought it was my car. No, forgot it. It's like. So now we gotta wait. We send somebody back to the car. So a guy's gotta run down the hall, down the stairs, out across the lawn, get in the car, the ram that he's gotta run back in the front door, up the stairs with the ram. We're waiting and waiting, and fortunately, the guy didn't come out. So we come. He gets there. Now we get the ram.

Allison Gill (57:51)

All right.

Andy McCabe (57:51)

Now this is it for real slamming. You know, you got a knocking announce. You pound on the door. You're like, you know, whatever. Joe Smith, come out with your hands up.

Allison Gill (58:02)

Do you say FBI or whatever?

Andy McCabe (58:04)

F. Of course. You have to identify yourself.

Allison Gill (58:07)

FBI.

Andy McCabe (58:07)

We have a warrant for your ass. Open the door. Open the door. And so the guy starts yelling at us from the other side of the door. This is not a good thing. Because you're thinking, like, maybe he's just loading his machine gun and gonna try to kill us all through the door. And we're like, get this door open.

Allison Gill (58:23)

I'll get this.

Andy McCabe (58:24)

He's like, I can't hear it. So finally, hit it with the ram. So the biggest guy on our team, this guy named Gary, he hits the door. Doesn't even budge. Hits it again. No budge. Hits it again. Now he's sweating like a pig. And he finally. The guy is like, stop. Stop. Don't break my door. Don't break my door. And the door blows open, four or five long guns pointing in his face. And we're like, put your hands up. And he puts his hands in the air. And none of us has blocked the door, so it just swings back and closes right in our faces. Like, damn, we should have planned this better. We're like, oh, my God. And then we're like, all right, open the door again. Dude is like, I can't believe we haven't seen this.

Allison Gill (59:18)

I can't believe we haven't seen this gag in like a, you know.

Andy McCabe (59:21)

Oh, my God. It was right out of just a moronic comedy. And he opens the door. That time we were like, okay, could you hold the door? And right after that, everything was very toned down and.

Allison Gill (59:35)

And normal.

Andy McCabe (59:36)

But, yeah, every now and then, you know, it's hijinks out there in the.

Allison Gill (59:40)

In the scary world, in the mean streets. Well, thank you for that story and thank you, everyone, for sending your questions in. We have so many great questions. We might have another questions episode pretty soon where we just exclusively answer your questions and you can submit one by clicking the link in the show notes. So thank you so much for listening to Unjustified. We really appreciate it. If you get a chance, check out my interview with the whistleblower attorney from whistleblower Aid. His name is Andrew Bakai. That's on the Midas Touch network Sunday today at noon Pacific time. Well, well before the super bowl starts. So there'll be plenty of time to. To catch that. And if you miss it, you can always follow. Follow up and watch it over@military.com. do you have any final thoughts before we get out of here today, my friend?

Andy McCabe (60:25)

No, hold on. Get. You know what? Watch the super bowl after you see the interview and have a great weekend. Give your brain a rest from all this insanity. We'll keep track of it and we'll bring it back to you next week.

Allison Gill (60:40)

We sure will. Go Hawks. Or you know what? I just hope bad bunny wins the Super Bowl. I think that would be the best.

Andy McCabe (60:45)

Heck, yeah. I'm totally rooting for that guy.

Allison Gill (60:47)

Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week on Unjustified. I'm Alison Gill.

Andy McCabe (60:50)

And I'm Andy McCabe.

Allison Gill (60:52)

Unjustified is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and analysis by Andrew McCabe. Sound design and editing is by Molly Hockey, with art and web design by Joelle Reader at Moxie Design studios. The theme music for Unjustified is written and performed by Ben Folds. And the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned independent podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information please visit mswmedia.com.