UnJustified, Ep. 36: “Who is Person 3?”

Host: Allison Gill
Co-Host: Andrew McCabe
Released: September 28, 2025

Overview

This hard-hitting episode dissects the Justice Department’s charging of former FBI Director Jim Comey, critiques the Trump administration’s ongoing seizure of DOJ independence, and explores the sinister chilling effect on civil service, with an in-depth analysis of indictments, personnel upheaval, and the broader threat to the rule of law. Gill and McCabe—himself a former top FBI official and subject of past political targeting—offer personal insight, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and close readings of the critical documents and public statements fueling America’s current crisis in justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. DOJ Weaponization and Breakdown of Legal Norms (00:06–04:03)

• Lindsey Halligan—Trump’s personal lawyer—was installed as U.S. Attorney for EDVA and immediately indicted Comey, raising grave concerns about prosecutorial independence.
• McCabe: “What we are seeing is the very intentional, blatant, out loud dismantlement of the Department of Justice and the concept of prosecutorial independence in this country. And that is something that should terrify every person in this country...” (03:06)
• Allison parallels the Comey case with recent censorship attempts targeting Jimmy Kimmel, highlighting a coordinated assault on accountability and free speech.

2. Halligan’s Installation and Trump’s Direct Demands (06:43–09:53)

• Trump fires seasoned U.S. Attorney Eric Siebert; replaces with Halligan, who lacks prosecutorial experience.
• Halligan’s arrival is accompanied by a public Truth Social post from Trump demanding action against “Comey...Adam Shifty [Schiff] and Letitia [James]. They're all guilty as hell, but nothing is being done ... Justice must be served now.” (06:43)

3. Ethical Crisis in Prosecutorial Decision-Making (09:53–14:19)

• Career prosecutors submitted a declination memo, recommending against charges; Halligan ignored it and went straight for an indictment to beat the statute of limitations deadline.
• Professional exodus likely as Halligan struggles to find staff willing to sign on: “She’s the only signatory on this indictment… She may not have even asked anyone yet. She may not know she can tell them to.” (12:51, McCabe)
• Comey is represented by top-tier lawyers Pat Fitzgerald and Dave Kelly, suggesting DOJ will face extremely capable opposition at trial.

Deep Dive: The Comey Indictment & Identity of ‘Person 3’

The Indictment’s Oddities (16:43–24:20)

• Two indictments presented: First (3-count) returned ‘no bill’ on Count 1, leaving only two counts actually charged. The judge expressed confusion—“This has never happened before. I've been handed two documents with a discrepancy. I'm a little confused.” (17:23, Judge Vala)
• Sloppy documentation and presentation underscore Halligan’s inexperience.

Count by Count: The Charges (18:54–24:20)

• Returned Count: About Comey’s knowledge of Clinton’s “plan” regarding Trump and Russia—grand jury refused to indict.
• Surviving Count: Claims Comey lied about never authorizing someone (Person 3) to serve as an anonymous source about the Clinton investigation.

Who is Person 3? (24:20–36:17)

• Speculation runs rampant that Person 3 is Andy McCabe. McCabe explains:
  • He never sought Comey's authorization to talk to press; as FBI Deputy, he had autonomy.
  • Recounts that he and Comey had different recollections but the inspector general’s report on their testimony was used in both his attempted firing and now—oddly—in the case against Comey.
  • McCabe: “In a normal world...there's no way a prosecutor would bring a charge like this ... and not having at least interviewed somebody who could likely would likely be an important fact witness.” (28:36)
  • McCabe confirms DOJ never contacted him—suggesting the case doesn’t rest on his or Comey’s internal communications.
  • Other candidate for Person 3: Dan Richman, Comey’s law professor friend and confidant, who had recently been interviewed by prosecutors. FBI records show no evidence Comey asked Richman to leak.

Legal Weaknesses and Likely Outcome (41:08–45:50)

• Indictment relies on tenuous, ambiguous testimony; charges attempt to skirt expired statutes of limitations.
• Motions for dismissal (selective/vindictive prosecution, bill of particulars) are all but guaranteed.
  • Judge Shira Scheindlin (paraphrased from CNN, per McCabe): “I've never seen a better case for [vindictive/selective prosecution]...” (43:22)
• Gill: “Here we are spending 45 minutes trying to figure out what this charge is, and most people are having a real hard time with it.” (44:40)

Big Picture Dangers (45:50–47:51)

• Even for those “not a fan” of Comey, the use of prosecutorial power to settle scores or appease the president is a threat to every American’s liberty.
• McCabe: “When this becomes the norm, every one of us is vulnerable to some sort of baseless detention. Right. That is why we became a country...” (46:58)

Repercussions: Resignations & Erosion of DOJ Morale

Mass Exodus & Retaliation (49:59–54:22)

• Multiple senior DOJ prosecutors resign—including Comey’s son-in-law Troy Edwards and Maureen Comey, who files a lawsuit after being fired.
  • Maureen Comey’s memo: “Fear is the tool of a tyrant wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place…” (51:10)
• Attorney General Pam Bondi’s chief of staff Chad Meisell resigns amid wider staff upheaval.

Judicial Rebukes for DOJ Overreach (54:22–55:47)

• Federal judge in SDNY flags possible violations of fair trial rules after DOJ employees publicly comment on Luigi Mangione’s case: “...multiple employees at the Department of Justice probably violated Local Criminal Rule 23.1 ...” (54:22, read by Gill)

Selective Prosecution: The Homan Bribery Scandal

• Tom Homan, border czar, was caught on tape accepting a $50,000 cash bribe from undercover FBI agents for future contracts if Trump won, but DOJ closed the case after Trump returned—another case of justice applied unevenly.
  • McCabe, on legal weakness: “When Tom Homan is sitting there taking the kava bag filled with 50 grand, he's not in a position of public trust. He was out of government...there were problems with the case, but that doesn't explain why you would drop it and walk away entirely.” (61:29)

Listener Q&A Segment (62:43–69:06)

Q: Trump’s executive order designating “Antifa” as a domestic terror group—does it have legal teeth?

• McCabe: “The executive order essentially has...nothing. ... There’s a very good reason in this country why we do not designate domestic groups terrorist organizations... all U.S. prosecution must rely on actual criminal conduct, [not] designations, because of First Amendment protections.” (63:51–65:33)
• Gill: No legal authority is cited; this is “just politics.”

Memorable Quotes & Highlights

• McCabe: “When you can no longer trust the independence of the Department of Justice...it is a horrible marker. This is a day that will go down or an act that will go down, I think in infamy...” (03:06)
• Gill: “It’s easy to sow confusion with such a scant one page fact-free indictment.” (16:43)
• Judge Vala (via Allison): “This has never happened before. I've been handed two documents with a discrepancy, Vala said. I'm a little confused...” (17:23)
• Maureen Comey: “Fear is the tool of a tyrant…let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place, a fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power, of commitment to seek justice for victims, of dedication to truth above all else.” (51:10)
• McCabe: “Even if you believe the Biden administration weaponized the government against Donald Trump ... your desire now should be to not do that.” (46:33)

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:06–04:03: Overview; stakes of DOJ erosion
• 06:43–09:53: Halligan’s installation, Trump’s public pressure
• 09:53–14:19: Prosecutorial norms upended; staff tension
• 17:23–23:04: Confusion over the indictments, courtroom chaos
• 24:20–36:17: Debate over identity of “Person 3”
• 41:08–45:50: Legal weakness of the charges; possible outcomes
• 49:59–54:22: Resignations and DOJ staff fallout
• 54:22–55:47: Judicial rebuke for DOJ
• 57:05–62:22: Homan bribery story and why DOJ dropped the case
• 62:43–69:06: Listener Q&A: “Antifa” as a terror organization

Tone and Style

• Conversational but sharply critical—especially regarding legal process abuses and political interventions.
• McCabe is earnest, sometimes weary; Gill uses humor and irony, but keeps focus on stakes for democracy.

Summary

In a week marked by unprecedented DOJ turmoil, the Justice Department's prosecution of Jim Comey—spearheaded by a Trump loyalist installed days prior—raises alarms about the weaponization of justice, the chilling of civil service, and the fragility of democratic norms. The mounting exodus of career prosecutors, the feeble legal underpinnings of key indictments, and the cynical abandonment of corruption investigations into political allies clarify a country at risk: when prosecution becomes a tool of the executive, no one is safe, and rule of law is abandoned. Gill and McCabe promise to continue untangling the facts, holding power to account, and urging listeners to stand vigilant—because, as they warn, the “revenge tour” is only beginning.

Next Steps:

• Comey’s arraignment scheduled for October 9.
• Expect further analysis of vindictive/selective prosecution, motions to dismiss, and unfolding resignations on future episodes.