← Unlearn16: Class is in Session
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- [00:03]
Joanna
Classes in session. Hey everybody, and welcome to Unlearn 16. Class is in session. Today I've been blessed once again to have Arlene Dickinson in the house. Wait, are you all the way on the east coast right now?
- [00:18]
Arlene Dickinson
I'm all the way on the west coast right now.
- [00:20]
Joanna
West coast. All the way on the west coast.
- [00:22]
Arlene Dickinson
How beautiful is it in Vancouver today, Enjoying the absolutely beautiful weather. It went for a great walk and it's so pretty down by the seawall. And I. Yeah, it's a, it's a beautiful city when it's not raining. It wasn't raining.
- [00:36]
Joanna
Catch it on those four days. I want to come out. Actually, I, I'm planning on coming out. I haven't booked it yet, but I want to do the kayaking with orcas. That's my thing.
- [00:46]
Arlene Dickinson
Oh, yeah. Like, you'd love it, Joanna. Like, it's beautiful out here. I mean, I, I've been, you know, being from Alberta, BC was my. Vancouver was literally my second home as a, you know, young kid growing up and as an adult, you know, like, we would drive the nine and a half, 10 hours from Calgary to Vancouver and spend the weekend. You know, this was in a. An old relationship of mine who. The guy was like a super, like, loved cars, loved driving and we would drive everywhere and he actually, I actually remember him quite fondly because we had some great road trips. Although he was really bad because I would fall asleep inevitably in the car. You know, the car would be driving along and I would get. I would fall asleep and then he would think it was really funny if he slammed on the brakes and pretended that he was about to hit some scary.
- [01:31]
Joanna
Scared that that might have been one of those red flags people.
- [01:35]
Arlene Dickinson
So that part I didn't like, but the, the rest of it I really enjoyed. And, and coming to Vancouver was something we did a lot. So, yeah, I really love it out here. It's a be. And thank goodness for the rain because that's what keeps us so green. So.
- [01:47]
Joanna
Absolutely. I, well, it's funny because my very first year of university I decided I wanted to be a marine biologist because I saw Free Willy. True story. So I, I was going to Simon Fraser and my mom wanted to drive me out rather than fl. Like, I want to drive from Ontario. I want to drive you to university. And my grandma was going to come, so the three of us get in the car and we're in Ontario for like 37 days. Because getting out of Ontario is. It's just such a long, arduous drive and at some Point, I got the flu. Now, I didn't really know. It wasn't horrible. I just felt gross all the time. I didn't want to eat. I was kind of ornery, and my mom thought I was just being a typical teenager and I was complaining. Meanwhile, I felt horrible. And then by the time we got to the mountains in Alberta, and you know what that feeling's like when you're going up a mountain. It's like your car revs really high because it has to get up, and then you're turning around a corner. You can't quite see around the corner. You can just see the edge of the world. Yeah. So it, we fought all the way there. Arlene.
- [02:53]
Arlene Dickinson
Well, yeah, I mean, road trips are great when they're, when they're great, but the, the driving through the Rockies is, is still, I think, not a thing. It is literally my favorite thing to do in this country. Like, it is. It's so spectacular to the majesty of the valleys and the rivers and the mountains, and it's just really quite something to see. I mean, I love the prairies. I love, you know, the, obviously the oceans and the coast, but there's something about driving through the Rockies that's. Maybe it's because I've done it since I was a little kid and, you know, we used to go to bath time, so maybe that's it. It's nostalgic more than anything. But I do love it. It is a little scary, some of those.
- [03:34]
Joanna
Scary, yeah. Scary. Yeah. Are you a big outdoors person? Like, do you like to camp? Do you like to, like, do those things?
- [03:43]
Arlene Dickinson
I'm not so much of a camper. And then we camped when I was younger because we, you know, couldn't afford hotels. And so I think, you know, camping. We had a tent trailer when I was a little kid, and that was something else with the, you know, the five of us in a little tiny tent trailer. And then, you know, 10. My kids were young because, again, that's, you know, what their dad liked to do was tent. I'm more of a Four Seasons camping girl. I gotta admit, I'm, I'm very, I am a little bit. When I travel, I really do like, you know, and I mean, I've, I've worked hard to, to be able to do that, but I don't really love camping. I don't really love, love it.
- [04:25]
Joanna
No, listen, I don't want to make my own food on vacation. I sure as heck don't want to find a piece of the woods to go to the Bathroom in.
- [04:34]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah.
- [04:34]
Joanna
No.
- [04:35]
Arlene Dickinson
Or an outdoor. Yeah, but some people. I mean, my kids like it. You know, not all them, but most of them like it. And. And, you know, like, listen, it's. It's. You either like it or you don't. And I. For me, no, it's not my job.
- [04:49]
Joanna
People are like, yeah, but you leave, like, your phone and your computer, whatever, every once in a while. Arlene, I leave it in the car. That seems like enough of a distance from my phone.
- [05:01]
Arlene Dickinson
Lately, John. I feel like I have been, like, way too tethered to my phone and. And just trying to keep up with everything. And I think we're all feeling that. There's just this overwhelming. It's not that you're afraid that you're missing out. It's not fomo. It's. It's. It's fear of not knowing what's happening so you can take action and so that you understand what the implications are. And so there's this. What has he done now? What's going on today? Like, what do I need to understand? And so you do spend. I. I spend. And I'm, you know, I'm posting quite a bit about what's happening in the world, and so I'm trying to keep up with it. And, you know, one day you think you understand it, the next day it's something completely different. It's. It's. So. You are. I'm finding that's harming me in terms of my. My. My attention span. What were we talking about again? Oh, sorry, right. Like, can I click? Can I. Can I swipe? Can I swipe? Could I just keep going through this till the next. Like anything longer than 15 seconds, you kind of go, I can't keep up with it. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy.
- [06:07]
Joanna
I mean, let's. Let's jump into the. I want to have a bit of fun today. I want to talk about a little bit of politics, a little bit of fun. I just want to, you know, it's a Sunday night. We can just have a bit of a good time. And I want to talk a little bit what's going on with China right now. I want to talk about it. I'm trying not to. Hard to laugh because I wish this weren't hot. Let me preface this all by saying I wish that Trump, it wasn't who he is. I wish he didn't set up all these sort of, you know, trade fights and trade wars in order for him to prove whatever waning masculinity he doesn't have. I Wish that it wasn't hurting. All of these millions of people, obviously, in Canada, all the way around the world, they, they come up, they come down, they're whatever. But the boy has really stepped into it with China. Right?
- [06:54]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, China is not going to back down. China basically said, okay, we matched your tariffs once and now we're just not going to play your game anymore. And we are just quite fine. I mean, yes, you represent 15% of, you know, kind of our trade, but we, we don't care. I, I, I, I can't was, I don't know if it was their prime minister or who said it, but yeah.
- [07:19]
Joanna
Well, is their minister of finance. Yeah, I, I remember this.
- [07:22]
Arlene Dickinson
He said, you know, we've been here for 5,000 years. Some of that time the US was around, we're going to be here for 5,000 more. Because that is how, you know, I think Asian nations in general tend to think 100 years, 200 years out. They don't think about tomorrow, they don't think about right now. They think about the long term, you know, play. And so they're not, they're unafraid of it. And I listen, I never thought I'd say, you know, this because, you know, we, we have challenges with the human rights, you know, goes on in China and other countries. But having said that, I do, I do respect what they're doing here. I think they're doing the right thing for the world, frankly. By standing up to them.
- [08:06]
Joanna
Yeah. And I think the world is, is thankful. I think there's a couple of things here and number one, we, we condem in China, which a hundred percent we should. Meanwhile, a father and a landed immigrant and somebody with every right to be in the United States has just been sent to an El Salvadorian prison and nobody can get them back or nobody wants to get them back. So.
- [08:28]
Arlene Dickinson
And they're getting those and they're putting them right. Sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, I guess we both get excited about it, but yeah, and they're putting people, they're putting people in basically concentration type camps, you know, where they're, you know, putting kids and families into holding areas where, you know, they are kind of being then deported and you know, that, that scene of, I don't even want to say her name, where she stood in front of all of the, in El Salvador, where she stood in front of the prison, like, what is that? That is just like impossibly ridiculous. So you're right, you know, human rights is something we have to fight for everywhere and we can't just excuse what happens in the US Or Canada or any nation, you know, if it's wrong.
- [09:12]
Joanna
Yeah, absolutely. When I'm. So what I'm thinking about when you said China's been around for 5,000 years, it'll be around for a long time. The interesting part, interesting part of the Chinese government and I, I always, I always hesitate to say communist because they keep calling themselves communist, but they're in the WTO and they're, they're very strong capitalists. So I kind of feel as though, you know, their, their moniker might not be the perfect label, but the interesting, that type of government, however you want to frame it, because it sure as heck not communist anymore. It might not be, you know, US form capitalism, but it's something else. But what's interesting is that they plan for the next 50 years because they're not worried about an election in two years, right? They're not worried about necessarily an overturning. They understand that there's a plan for China and there's a plan for the country to progress. And I'm a little envious, even though I obviously want as much democracy in every country as we possibly can have. But I'm a little envious because that's the only way problems, for example, like environmental issues get solved, right? You have to plan for the next 50 years. You have to have a level of consistency.
- [10:36]
Arlene Dickinson
I mean, you know, that's, that's a really interesting thing to delve into because, you know, we tend to, like you hear in our politics, people are saying, you know, like it was like the last decade, the last 20 years, the last 30 years, you know, we, we have done these things wrong and we tend to only think in the immediate, and we think that things can be fixed immediately and they can't. These are big problems we're trying to solve, and we've been trying to solve them forever. Whether it's trade, you know, like exchange, you know, getting growing our trade relationships, whether it's our energy and how we're going to secure our energy, whether it's our healthcare systems, our education systems, you know, productivity issues, these are platform issues that have been around forever. They are not going to change. And the reason they've been around forever is that's actually what matters to the country. And your point on whether it's China or other Asian, East Asian and other Asian countries, they do think about the complexity and the time these things take, and they are prepared as a people to do what's necessary. Now, what I don't like about no election. And, and the fact that, you know, is that you can't say that they're going to do the right thing. You don't have any say. You know, if they, if they don't do the right thing, oh, well, too bad you're stuck with them. So. And I think I worry a little bit about that being what's going to happen in the US frankly, that there won't be another, you know, like now, whether that will create a civil war, whether, you know, people will rebel if there is. And that isn't another election. I mean, he's, he's currently dismantling the legal ability to fight him legally, the ability to, you know, change, you know, how everything. He's changing every, every aspect of anybody who could argue with him in terms of changing the election cycle. So we'll see what happens. We'll see.
- [12:27]
Joanna
Well, yeah, and there's a lot of. Recently I've been reading about a lot of threats that are being made to law firms. We, you and I were speaking about this, and then I read a whole bunch about, um, about individual and powerful law firms, how they are get literally getting coerced and threatened. And then you start to. Again, I'm not advocating for less democracy. I am simply stating when guys like Trump and this administration are pointing to, to China and saying there's, there's no freedom, there's no democracy, there's no. And meanwhile, their sole job is just chipping away. I find it to be an awful lot of projection. Look over there, they're doing horrible things, but meanwhile they're like, how do we do more of that? That's what I want to do.
- [13:14]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah. It does feel like what's, what's bubbling up now with the scope of the tariffs that he's put on China is that he is, he is creating a global tension with China that is going to, it's going to be interesting. Nations are like Europe and Canada and other nations are going to have to. Countries and nations, sorry, are going to have to figure out how they are going to do trade if, if the US Continues to be an unreliable partner. And that means who are we going to be partners with and who can we trust? And, you know, you're, you're just seeing. I just think you're just seeing. I think China's been very smart, calling JD Vance, calling them peasants. I'm sorry. And they did come from peasants. And Canada, you know, we, like, we've all come like, we're either pioneers or, you know, like, honestly, it's just, it's crazily disrespectful and has nothing ever set.
- [14:27]
Joanna
Foot out of the United States except for his trip to Greenland that was unwelcome. Speaking about him, they went, they both went to Yale and he, he was really, really pointed and he said, listen, I just think it's time for JD to go back to school because he didn't do it well enough the first time around. Like, he, he just needs a little bit of an education. And I thought that, you know, was probably, you know, it's like one of my lines. I'm like, that was well played. And meanwhile, this, it's the foundation of the party. I don't want to say party, but the foundation of this movement that is driven by racism and driven by bigotry and driven by a level of American exceptionalism and superiority, whether that's simply just white or whether that's American. And, and to bolster that, you need to constantly talk down to everybody else but China right in this moment. And I have no doubt is going to slap them so hard. I think the foundations of their capitalistic prowess are going to be shaken.
- [15:39]
Arlene Dickinson
Maybe. I mean, the US Is an imperial nation. They don't maybe go and say that, but I think they are absolutely. And so, you know, like, and, and the world economy has being tied so much to the, their dollar that act that, you know, there's some common sense in what they're doing to try and, you know, unlock themselves from the pressure of that and from the cost of that. And I do understand that.
- [16:06]
Joanna
To me. Can you explain that to everybody? That's when you say there, there's a pressure lock to that.
- [16:12]
Arlene Dickinson
Well, like when you think about the American dollar being a certain cost, I mean, it's tied, it's very, it's, it's complex. I, I don't, I'm not an economist, so I don't know if I can do it justice to talk about kind of all of the complexities of it, but, you know, the interest rate that is paid on the treasury bills, the, the, the way that everybody borrows from each other and the way that they support the economy, support each other's debt in a, in a very complex manner, bonds, et cetera, this is all tied to right now globally. The US Dollar is what kind of, is the metric that a lot of the world economy tends to trade? Not all the world economy, but a lot of the world economy. Right. And, and, and, and everything's measured against that. If that changes. It does. It's kind of like, it's kind of like if that goes down, there's benefit and there's neg. There's good and bad to that going down, the cost of the dollar going down. But I do think that's what he's trying to do. I think he's trying to evaluate, yeah, devalue the dollar. That will, that will make a big difference for what he's able to do and the cost of how he's able to do it. But it has huge implications globally. And it's not as simple as it sounds. Nothing is as simple as Trump makes it sound. He makes it sound like it's just, oh, they, you're paying the, even the goods and services. Like he's tariffing goods, but he's not tariffing services. He and the US Has a, you know, they, they, they trade a lot. They, they have a lot of surplus in services. So they give, a lot of other countries buy services from the U.S. oh, if those countries say we're putting tariffs on your services, that will deeply impact the American economy. So right now it's on goods. Everything's focused on goods. But if it, if it shifts to services as well, I think that's going to be a whole other agenda. And when you think about services, you think about technology services or, you know, anything to do with the new financial systems that are electronic and service driven. If you think about any, you know, buy media from a media company that's selling it to somebody else in the globe so you can advertise in the US on their station or, you know, whatever global media companies you're seeing that these things are so, again, connected. And, and I, and I'm, as I said, I'm not an economist. I'm probably doing a really shitty job of explaining what I think is happening because I don't really understand it fully myself. I only understand the basic premises of it. I think you have to be an economist to really understand the complexity and to really understand what happens if you pull on this lever. What happens on the other side of the, of the equation?
- [19:05]
Joanna
Well, I think, I mean, I have read a lot about devaluation of currency. If the currency is worth less, they owe less, those kinds of things. And I think that all makes sense. I find it hysterical that we, or not we, not you and I, not a lot of people, the majority of people, but the people supporting this are willing to put such blinders on to any, like the idea that the right is going to ignore economists, I find fascinating. I find absolutely fascinating. And, and still go down this rabbit hole of, you know, trying to measure prowess, country for country, because all this man really wants is every country to pick up the phone and make that phone call. We're never going to hear, by the way. I don't think we will ever hear in a leg way or a significant way, you know, well, Canada used to put 200% on our dairy, but now they don't put anything like, we're never going to hear that. We're going to hear, Canada gave us a much better deal. We're friends again, Everything's good. I won. Yay. I'm the man. Let's move on. And then you're going to have to dig for it. And when you dig for it, that's going to get buried in the idea that nothing happened.
- [20:26]
Arlene Dickinson
For your listeners. And I know you have a lot of American listeners, so I would say two things. Forget what I've said about what's happening in terms of, you know, the devaluation of the dollar and what's happening with the connectivity between all the countries. Listen to, like, podcasts, like Ezra Klein's podcast. Yeah, Ezra Klein's podcast does a very good job of explaining the fundamentals through really smart economists of what could happen and what might be happening and why they think it's happening. And, and, and I, and I would also say to your American listeners, the American people that I know are very proud to be American. They've, they've always, they, they, they've, they, I think they've always felt the weight of being, you know, important on the globe's global stage. They've always felt the, the, they've always felt elevated because they've worked hard and they've driven things to great conclusions. And they built an amazing, an amazing nation as a result of that. A very, you know, highly productive, interesting nation, but it has a lot of debt, it has a lot of challenges. And, and so, you know, that glory of, you know, you know, you know, the, the, the, the best country in the world, that's changed now. And I can't imagine that Americans aren't feeling the weight of that, that they're not feeling like, wait a minute, like I was at the podium, I felt like I was first, and I felt like the people around me, you know, I was part of a team that was, we were all doing great, and we, you know, we did our thing in the world stage, and yeah, maybe we spent too much money helping over here, but, you know, like, that's fine because we are doing okay. And now that they're starting to struggle because of debt and because of other challenges. They are, they're no longer on that podium. They're not even in the same game. They're, they're really being isolated. And I think that's gotta, I think that's gotta hurt. I feel for the American people. I think, I don't think for the most part they, they want this, but I completely agree.
- [22:33]
Joanna
The amount of messages I get that are people saying, I'm so sorry, we don't feel this way, we don't believe this, and, and putting that aside, I read something and I was live the other night because I genuinely felt horrible. This is what it is to be a Canadian. I read a CTV whatever and it said that a lot of Americans and I had to read it twice because I didn't understand what I was reading. A lot of Americans are trepidatious about visiting and vacationing in Canada for fear of how we are going to treat them. And I did a whole live where I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We are going to be the exact same people, the welcoming people. The. This isn't a Canadian versus American thing. This is an idiot ideology that has unfortunately taken a hold of a group of people. And I don't even think that whole group of people even stands with him even close to that anymore. But in no way, shape or form should you feel nervous. I feel nervous crossing their border. I don't want them feeling nervous crossing ours.
- [23:38]
Arlene Dickinson
Well, you've got, they've now put a 30 day, you know, restriction if you don't fill out a visa to say you're going to be there. And I think, you know, there was a power outage in Wisconsin just recently. And you know, if they want to know whether Canadians will rise to continue to help. We sent water bombers to the wildfires in California when they, when their electricity was down in Wisconsin. We sent people to help repair the lines and to fix it. Canadians are always, this is our superpower. We're always going to do, I believe, the right thing. But that doesn't mean we're not angry. That doesn't mean that we're not, you know, that we're going to trust. We're going to trust the negotiations. That doesn't mean that we're going to spend money in America the way we were. We're obviously not going to, but that doesn't mean that we're not good and decent people and we aren't going to do the right thing. And I think that matters right now. Yeah, I think Canada's got an opportunity because of that to lead a movement for good. And I posted about this, Joanna the other day and I really think this, I put it on my LinkedIn that, you know, I used the Margaret Mead quote, which was never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has it. I might be abridging it, but. And I thought, okay, we've got a small group of people who are trying to change the world right now for the bad. Where's the movement for the good? And can Canada lead that effort? Can Canada be the nation that rises up through its decency, through its approach, through its, you know, value system to lead a movement for good? Because that's what's missing right now. People don't have a movement for good when we need one.
- [25:23]
Joanna
You know, it's interesting because I just heard that Trump turned down North Carolina's request for female. So he said it's not, not necessary. See, for me, if I was running the Canadian government, I'd offer, I'd go on TV the next day. I understand it's probably going to be turned down, but in any way, shape or form that we can reach out and help people that need it in the United States, even to the nigga, especially to the negation of this particular group of people. I know that Gavin Newsom's talking about how he's going to facilitate trade deals that have nothing to do, trade barriers. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not these people. And just so you know, we're the fifth biggest economy in the world. California is the fifth biggest economy. Like, we have no desire, we have no desire to do this. And I know there's all of these different barriers that are locking it up, but I think that reaching out and saying, California need our help during the wildfires, we'll be there. North Carolina, you need our help. Cool. Send people down there. Let Trump stand up and say, we don't want it, we won't take it. Go ahead, say that, sir. Because the quickest way to get him off his self created throne is by showing him for the small, little tiny man he is. That's how we do it.
- [26:44]
Arlene Dickinson
I don't know how Canadians will take that. You know, like it's, it's, it's a lovely thought, but I think, you know, we're telling, we're telling Canadians to buy at home, we're telling Canadians to travel at home. We're saying, and, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't help But I do think that we've got to be careful that our dollars that need to be right now building our country and our nation are staying here. You know what happened in the US is you saw people vote for change. They got, they, well, you know, like, okay, I don't know, under Biden they seem to be dissatisfied. So they said, okay, let's change. And they didn't understand the impact of that decision. Change for change sake is never a good idea. And you know, you're better holding your politicians accountable, I think. But it's, it's going to be interesting. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Canada. It will be very interesting to see what happens here.
- [27:37]
Joanna
So, so as China steps out, very recently I've seen a lot of tiktoks about China and then Chinese manufacturers exposing all of these very expensive elite brands. I'm like, well this is how I'm going to get my mom, you know, a Birkin. This is exactly how I'm going to go about it. She does like a nice purse. And they started, they just started putting it all on blast. They said, listen, here's how the, here's how. And they do it so intelligently because they don't, they don't come off as heavy handed as I am. They're just like, here's what we make guys. And just so you know, this is what we make. See all of the different kinds and you can see what they are. And I, and I realize you think that they're all made in Italy or France but really they put on the tag there so they can say it was made there or manufactured, whatever. He goes, but this is where we're doing it. So if you like to reach out, there's different ways to reach out so you can have a more direct line. So we can, and I'm watching this going, oh, oh, you're just going to blow up the. And it is very, a diluted sense of, you know, expensive brands in, in some instances. And I think they're just going to blow up the entire market and see how that goes.
- [28:54]
Arlene Dickinson
I mean maybe, I think, I think what you're seeing is first of all there's the, the power of a brand is huge. And you know, a brand like a Birkin, Hermes, Hermes is very purposeful in terms of how many bags it puts out, the quality of what it puts. And I, I saw that tick tock. And I think they said, okay, it costs fourteen hundred dollars. It's going to cost you thirty thousand at the store. Yes, but there's there's, there's the, when they put that brand on, they are actually stamping that. It is all of the right leathers and the zippers and, and everything else on there is their quality. And I think the leather comes in Italy, but beyond that, it's their retail locations, it's their, there's so much more that adds cost to that. Right. But I think their real point, and not to say that that justifies the price difference or to say, I think their point is, you need us, world. We are we without us, without our, you know, our effective labor costs, automation, the things that we're doing. I mean, China and the cities in China are, they're, they're incredibly sophisticated. They know exactly what they're doing when it comes to manufacturing. And to think that American can become that manufacturer again as it was in the 50s and 60s. It's not going to happen. It is not going to happen. It's literally impossible for it to happen. And so you need, you know, especially when you need resources from other countries in order for it to be effective. You saw it with him taking down the, the phone tariffs. Why? Because he can't make them.
- [30:33]
Joanna
Yeah, it, the list of things he took the tariffs off in about 37 seconds was everything pretty much he left off. Like kids, toys are still going to get tariffed and maybe some clothes. But everything else, it's off. It's already. It's already. And nobody's really talking about it. Nobody's really, you know, acknowledging how embarrassing that is and, and what a play that was.
- [30:58]
Arlene Dickinson
He thrives on uncertainty. He loves to create uncertainty because that create, that puts everybody on alert and that changes how the markets react. And, and that is part of his game. The fear and uncertainty is part of what he uses. And, you know, this is a guy who's, you know, he's gone bankrupt number of times, he's, he's unafraid to try things and see what happens and then carry on. But it is fascinating to me that one man can do this. Could you imagine, could you imagine if a woman, if we'd had a woman in government saying, and their chief of staff said, or somebody that, you know, high in their government said, well, she just trusts her instincts because that's what they said about Trump. He just trusts. We trust his instincts.
- [31:46]
Joanna
Can you imagine?
- [31:47]
Arlene Dickinson
No, if it was, it would have been, you're too emotional, you don't think logically, you're not smart enough.
- [31:55]
Joanna
Could you imagine bringing your kid to a Cabinet meeting and putting them on your shoulders? And walking in and everybody goes, oh, that's so cute. No, no, no. You would be the exact reason we shouldn't have women in the workforce. Yeah, well, that's how you would be held. I, when he brought his son, he brings him everywhere. Obviously. Just the one because I can't, I.
- [32:19]
Arlene Dickinson
Guess the other 13 about now.
- [32:22]
Joanna
Yeah, of course. And everybody and it, and it's just like every other time they, they speak about their children as though they are representatives of them. And this amazing impressive thing meanwhile, we all know that is look what just happened. The House just happened in the House where they try to pass that bill in order to allow brand new mothers that just had babies physically birth the child that they were able to vote approximately they were able to have a proxy vote. We're like, no, no, that's where we draw the line. But somebody give Elon Musk a medal for carrying his son in on his shoulders yesterday.
- [33:05]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. But I, but I think, you know, I think it, it's unbelievable. But I do think it's going, you're going to see things. I, I, I, I, the world needs a hero. The world needs a nation to stand up or nations to stand together. I do think that will happen. But I hope it happens soon because some of these things are going to be irreversible. The damage that's being done to the veterans in America, to the seniors in America, the damage that's being done to all of the people who are in need on Medicaid or on, you know, like these things are. There's, there's huge challenges going on relative to the impact of people getting their checks and everything they need to survive. I hope it happens soon because what you don't want to see is people that are in need paying the biggest price while people who are in power line their pockets with gold. That's what you don't want to see.
- [34:05]
Joanna
I think you already are, unfortunately. Did you hear the latest that they're about to put Social Security and all Social Security communications on X? No, this is the latest. Is the idea that Social Security like the call in phone lines, like everybody who calls in and needs help with Social Security. Elon Musk has deemed that's all fraud. So he'd like to shift it all. And they've spoken about, I've read articles about it. They would like to shift all of the management of such to the X platform. My mom can't go on FaceTime, Arlene. She holds the Phone like this, you think?
- [34:53]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:55]
Joanna
How are we going to teach how? Well, and I'm not even talking about the ethical and the legal implications, but how. Who are we going to teach to use a social media platform, their computer or their phone in order to get access to the money they need to survive?
- [35:17]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's sad. And, and while I, I understand the, the automation that's going to change the world, I understand that we're moving to a different type of economy, that things are changing. It is, this isn't rip the band aid off to make things happen immediately. Like, and I, and I think again, we've got to be careful in Canada that we don't fall prey to the same thing, which says immediately that a business mentality takes over our country and operates it like a business because government's not a business. So it's, it's. People need to be protected. That's government's job. And I don't think he's doing a good job of protecting the American people.
- [36:00]
Joanna
No, I don't. I don't think that's his driving force. I think it's also interesting, all this automation, all of this invention or, or sort of inclusion of AI. Unfortunately, I can't. As AI gets up, like, as it rises in how much you can use it, as, as technology rises in how you do everything. I can't trust anything. Do you know how many cool people and opportunities and I bet you I've missed lots. I've almost missed, because I don't believe it when somebody emails me or somebody calls me or contacts me from a particular place. I'm like, I don't believe you. I, I don't believe. I remember TikTok contacting me, wanting me to go to head office. And I, I remember I said to Anna, I said, I don't, I don't know what this is, but I'm pretty sure it's not. TikTok said, I'm just gonna go down there and something stupid's gonna happen or whatever, because that's the level of a, that's how quickly AI. My mom gets text messages every five seconds telling her that her Netflix subscription is timed out and she'll call me. Joanna, did you pay Netflix? I'm like, you're not on Netflix. That is a, that's a fraud. Like, that's fraud. As all of this is happening, there's.
- [37:17]
Arlene Dickinson
There'S a, there's a group of, there's not a group. There's numerous groups who will reach out to you and say, hey, Oprah wants to have you on her podcast. And, you know, like. Like, I'm her producer. We want to set up a meeting with you. And it looks legit. It comes from an Oprah looking, like, email address. But if you go on the email. Sorry, if you have a meeting with whoever this producer supposedly is, what they're going to do is get you to, you know, like, hey, let's log into your Facebook. Let's make sure we're all set up so that we can do this, you know, this podcast together.
- [37:53]
Joanna
Right.
- [37:54]
Arlene Dickinson
Then they get your credentials. And so, you know, that, you know, hey, Mom, I've lost my phone. Can you send me a new phone? Hey, it's the bank calling. I need you to, you know, send me your PIN number because we can't get access to your account right now, and there's fraudulent activity. And if you're a senior and, and. And listen, I am a Senior. I'm over 65. Like, and I think, you know, I'm. I think I'm savvy. But there are times where it's so darn good that you go, is this real? Like, I don't think that about Revenue Canada calls or, you know, like, the calls I just mentioned. But there's stuff that is really, really.
- [38:34]
Joanna
They're getting real good. You know what? I'm almost at a point, I swear to God, I'm almost at a point where I'm going to buy a computer that I don't do anything else on other than have maybe meetings and have those kind of, you know, have a zoom meeting or have a. Whatever meeting and have a completely separate email that has nothing to do with anything else in my life that it has. I don't do anything else on that computer. So that if and when somebody tries to break into something, they got no place to go.
- [39:06]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah.
- [39:07]
Joanna
I'm almost at a point where I want to revert. If I get a call from my bank, I swear to God, I just go into the bank.
- [39:13]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, I swear. Because even if you pick up the phone now and there's a pause there and you say, hello, hello, hello, they're actually recording your voice and using your voice to create looped tapes. So you've got to be on the alert, and you also have to look for news stories that if your gut says, this can't be real, trust your gut, man. Like, trust yourself. Because it likely isn't. But it's. It's. It's. It. And you know what the problem Is, is that AI. Everybody wanted a race, race, race to be the first to create the best AI tools. And there's no guardrails around it, there's no restrictions around it. There's no, you know, it's like social media. There's, there's absolutely no regulation around it. It's not good.
- [40:00]
Joanna
Yeah, yeah. And I, and I think that, I mean, not only are there no restriction, but it's, I mean, all I can think about is Skynet. The problem is people running the show didn't watch Terminator and they don't understand it, learns it, and, and they've already said there's elements of AI. It is learning. It is getting better. I'm like, well, that's it, we've, we're done, we've lost. You're. It's just gonna learn to get better, get better, get better. Have you ever seen Battlestar Galactica?
- [40:31]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:33]
Joanna
Did you see the old one or the new one?
- [40:35]
Arlene Dickinson
Oh, I don't remember. I know I've seen it, but I don't remember which version is probably the old.
- [40:39]
Joanna
You have to watch the. I don't, I never watched the old one. But you have to watch the new one because it's something, it's so brilliant in its philosophy outside of its. Whether you like the sci fi part or not. But the philosophical premise is you create machines to do the stuff you don't want to do. Right. The machines get somewhat sentient and say, we don't want to do this anymore. And we say, well, no, that's why we built you very much of a slavery dynamic. There's a huge war. We win, they go away for, I don't know, 20 years. They come back way smarter and they just destroy us. Absolutely destroy us. Because they see us as the oppressors and they see themselves as being sentient, capable individuals. Now the philosophy of it has a lot of spiritual aspects to it, but this notion that we're constantly trying to create, and nobody's ever questioning it, we're constantly trying to create ways to do things, easier ways to take jobs away from people who actually gives them purpose. To do what? Make it cheaper. Make it cheaper so we can consume more. Consume more? To what end? Yeah, yeah, what, what's the goal here?
- [41:59]
Arlene Dickinson
What about quality of life? What about, you know, like. You're exactly right. I thought we were going to talk about fun things.
- [42:05]
Joanna
I'm sorry, but I mean, I slid into Battlestar Galactica as I'm sitting in a room.
- [42:14]
Arlene Dickinson
I didn't say, like, yeah, let's okay.
- [42:19]
Joanna
Okay, so let's.
- [42:20]
Arlene Dickinson
Which.
- [42:21]
Joanna
Sorry, go ahead. Yep.
- [42:22]
Arlene Dickinson
Oh, you go.
- [42:23]
Joanna
I was gonna ask your favorite TV show.
- [42:26]
Arlene Dickinson
Oh, my favorite TV show.
- [42:27]
Joanna
I can make a hard shift.
- [42:29]
Arlene Dickinson
I. I've been watching two shows lately. Gavin and Stacy, which is an old British sitcom.
- [42:39]
Joanna
Gavin and Stacy. Okay.
- [42:41]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah. It has James Corden in it and a few others. Early days. It was, I think, done in 2007 or something. So imagine 18 years ago, James. And it's actually, I like British humor a lot. I really enjoy. And so I've kind of, like, been watching that. And then I. My daughter told me to start watching Love on the Spectrum. And I have mixed feelings about it because I, I love the. I love the beauty of the stories and the, and the honest, raw, like. Yeah, like the honesty of it. I love that. But then I. I'm so suspicious of tv and, you know, are they. Are they taking advantage here? Are they doing things? So I said to her, I said, I feel kind of. But. But I'm kind of. I'm not so sure about that. But else. Have I been watching Surface. I've been watching, which is interesting.
- [43:38]
Joanna
What about your favorite TV show of all time? I said, you have to. You're gonna re. Watch something that you've watched. What is it like? What's your go to. Is it a comedy?
- [43:51]
Arlene Dickinson
I, I really liked Golden Girls. I especially like it now because you. You realize that they were in their 40s and 50s. They were. And, and, and honestly, Betty White and all of them, they were just so good, and they made me laugh. I, I, Yeah, I liked, I liked Golden Girls. I also liked mash. I thought MASH was just a Lovely, wonderful. The cast was fantastic. Yeah, exactly. Back to work. But, yeah, there's a. I know I'd have to think about that a little more.
- [44:26]
Joanna
You brought us back to Korea. Okay. Favorite movie of all time.
- [44:32]
Arlene Dickinson
Oh, that's a tough.
- [44:33]
Joanna
And you're gonna tell me. Listen, I'm gonna let you do this. Tell me your, you know, your. The movie that everybody says is my favorite movie. Then tell me your real favorite movie. Because I have this theory that everybody's favorite movie is something like Shawshank Redemption because they want to feel smart. But everybody's real favorite movie is like, you know, all the right moves with Tom Cruise. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're Divergent.
- [44:56]
Arlene Dickinson
Well, first of all, I've got a. A horrific memory. Always, always have around kind of titles of things. But I, I think I, I really liked Decept. Was it deception with Leonardo DiCaprio or.
- [45:10]
Joanna
Oh, not Deception.
- [45:14]
Arlene Dickinson
Starts with an eye.
- [45:16]
Joanna
Inception.
- [45:17]
Arlene Dickinson
Inception, yeah.
- [45:19]
Joanna
One that's all messed up and he's not really on the.
- [45:21]
Arlene Dickinson
I thought that was a good movie. Not my favorite movie of all time, but I, I don't know. I don't really have. I, I really am eclectic that way. Like, I, I, I will love something and then I'll, like, I forget about it, and then I'll watch the next thing. So I'm. I'm thinking, yeah, I. But I actually did like Shawshank Redemption. It was. It really was a very movie. Although it didn't do well in the box office, it didn't listen.
- [45:48]
Joanna
But nobody understood it, even the people. A lot of nobody understood the real meaning of, like, what was going on in that. What about you? What's yours?
- [45:56]
Arlene Dickinson
I never saw Titanic, so I can't even say that.
- [45:59]
Joanna
Jaws. Jaws is my favorite because I was scared. I was scared of the ocean for 20 years. So I think it deserves a level of accolade. I do like different genres, so I go way back. Like, I like going way back to, like, the Thin man with Myrna Loy and William Powell. I love. Love anything with Katherine Hepburn. Adam's rib. I have a huge poster of Adam's rib in my. In my office at school, and I tell the kids the story about Adam's rib, and they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, I'm gonna make them sit down and watch it. So I like old movies like that. I, I haven't seen that one in a long time.
- [46:41]
Arlene Dickinson
What was the one that had Jane Fonda and. And on the. And her brother and. And the motorcycle?
- [46:49]
Joanna
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:52]
Arlene Dickinson
I'm the world's worst at. I'm telling you, I don't remember the names of anything. I never have. But that was also. Gosh, I can't think of it. That was also very good because I love Jane Fonda. I love who she is as a human, and I love Easy Rider. Easy Rider.
- [47:09]
Joanna
Also, another Jane Fonda might be my favorite. That when people talk about celebrity, she's incredible. And I just was re. Watching Newsroom. I think I was talking to you about it a little bit.
- [47:20]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:21]
Joanna
And even her character in that. I'm like, she, you know, obviously, Frankie and Grace. Grace and Frankie. Frankie and Grace is amazing, but she's. But the person she is always impresses me, you know? Like, a lot of people are like, joanna, like, why don't you. Why don't you get more celebrities on, you know, whatever. Because they, maybe I have interactions with some people. I'm like, listen, actors and actresses and musicians, they're amazing and they're amazing at what they do. But the people I want to talk to are the people that have something else to talk about. I, I'm not going to sit, I'm not, I'm not intelligent enough or aware enough or educated enough to talk about acting techniques and what it. That's not going to be any fun for me. So I want to talk about things that, that I understand and that I can connect to. So if they're going to talk about, you know, social issues like the fact that Angelina Jolie gave up movies and worked for the U.N. like what. That's what I want to talk about.
- [48:24]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, she's, she's impressive too. I think what people don't often connect is the, that the movies and TV shows are an absolute reflection of what's going on in society and where we're trending. So if you think about like the one with Will Smith in it again, terrible with names.
- [48:47]
Joanna
New movie or older.
- [48:48]
Arlene Dickinson
No, an old TV show where he was going into the. What's that?
- [48:53]
Joanna
Yeah, Fresh, Fresh Prince Miller.
- [48:55]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah. So if you, if you think about Fresh Prince or Sanford and Sons or Archie Bunker's family, what was it, whatever it was called, these, these movies and TV shows are reflections of society and they actually are arbiters of what is happening and the shift culturally that needs to happen and, and is happening. And so whether it was a black kid living in a rich white home, whether it was the Beverly Hillbillies and people who were poor being gentrified, going into a, gentrification into a neighborhood and having money suddenly, whether it was, you know, all like Sanford son's a junk dealer and you know, or the, the, the racism and the homophobia that happened in with Archie Bunker and, and, and that, that, that whole angst between him and Edith and son in law and his daughter, this is all, this isn't just entertainment. And, and this is what I think Hollywood does when it does it well, it does it very well. It's a reflection of what is really happening in our world. And you're probably gonna, you know, you are seen and have seen over the course of the last five or six years, you know, an evolution of, of the awareness of what's going on politically in, in the world.
- [50:14]
Joanna
Absolutely.
- [50:14]
Arlene Dickinson
And, and some of the challenges that we are facing as a nation and even up to today where you saw, you know, where you see adolescents, you know, a TV series about it.
- [50:24]
Joanna
Yeah.
- [50:25]
Arlene Dickinson
What's happening to young boys and how they're getting radicalized and how they're, you know, like online they're changing who they are and what's going on with social media, that is a reflection of now and what could happen. So I always say to people, pay attention, pay attention to the narrative that's out there, because it actually, not only does it reflect it, but it actually also encourages it and it makes people think it's normal. So you have to be careful that just because you saw it on a TV show doesn't mean that it's right.
- [50:52]
Joanna
I include it often. Yeah. In, in most of the courses that I teach, I often have sort of a pop culture or a media aspect. And I remember I used to get BLOWBACK, you know, 15 years ago or whatever, you know. Joanna, what are you. What do you mean? You're gonna make them watch a TV show or like, what? They're just doing it for fun. I'm like, you guys are missing the point. Could it, could they think it's fun? Yeah. And the students could think it's fun. However, if you ask the right questions and you sort of push them into really, really good, brave, incredibly powerful discussions, I'm doing 10 times the work and 10 times the research and investigation and sort of framing as I could do with a textbook. Yeah, absolutely.
- [51:41]
Arlene Dickinson
Newsroom.
- [51:41]
Joanna
I could teach politics just from that show.
- [51:46]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah.
- [51:47]
Joanna
From that show alone. I could have kids rewrite the way a government or a presidential race question should have gone. I could have them rewrite the way that the news should have reflected particular instances. If there were no advertisers, if there was no government intrusion, you know, if, if the news wasn't based on ratings and you didn't need to put in like, who Kim Kardashian was dating, all of that stuff, and the kids are locked in it. But it's real. You think that's not real, but that's what's running our world, right?
- [52:25]
Arlene Dickinson
Yeah, it's interesting. It's really interesting. I mean, I have so much respect for you as a teacher, I think. My father had a PhD in education and he wrote his thesis on self paced learning and how we all learn at different speeds and how, you know, computers could actually help us instead of just relying on saying to a classroom, you all have to learn at the same speed and keep up with chapter by chapter or course by course. He really believed, and I think he's right, that people, we all learn individually and differently. And so his thought was using Computers to help enable self paced learning. And so he was a teacher. My two sisters have university bachelor's of education and my one sister is a teacher. My stepmother was a university professor. My dad. Eventually you're surrounded by us, by teachers my whole life and I have so much respect and my daughter in law was a teacher and I just think teachers are the most underrated profession in, in and, and I'll tell you why I think we're seeing what happens when education gets, yeah. Gets left behind. We put kids through school, we can't, we don't fail them anymore. We, we, we, we can't tell them that they need to do better. We, we, we, we put teachers in a place of fear because in the US with the, the shootings and all of they're learning self defense and defense more than they're learning how to do, you know, like do extracurricular things. We're putting too much workload on them. We're not allowing them to, to create intelligence. We're just having them go through motions. And I think that is why we're not seeing as much critical thinking because we are not putting the importance of teaching where it needs to be. I have a lot of respect for you. That is, it is a tough job. Tough to.
- [54:25]
Joanna
I think it's a lot about money. Right. It all, again it all comes down to that conversation or that, that little bit of a line of thought we were talking about earlier about what do we want society to do? What are we, what are we moving so fast to get, we're moving so fast to get out of school, to get a job, to get money, to buy things, to mass consume and then to do what, what, what is the thing. So if, if we're going to put a dollar value on education which obviously do because we have to pay for it. Every time a kid doesn't quite get it right there's a knee jerk reaction. Oh, just pass them, just pass them so they get it. Pass them so they get it. They don't have to repeat it. It doesn't cost more money. Because I honestly believe if we were being very truthful, way more truthful than you know, a lot of parents would like. Every kid is very much at a different pace for a different subject area. I have kids that could do math all the way through grade 12 in about 10 minutes but are going to take a very long time to do English or a very long time to learn computers. So what do we do?
- [55:37]
Arlene Dickinson
Self paced learning.
- [55:38]
Joanna
Let's and it's perfect. But in order to have that kind of system, you need to have. You need to be able to tell a parent, listen, they're just not getting it. They're not getting it. That's okay, right? But if we were honest, I. Every single kid would not be getting something. I promise you. I promise you. So this notion of, well, I'm not quite getting it as quickly, it wouldn't be carry. You wouldn't have to carry so much shame with it, and parents wouldn't have to think, oh, well, then my kid's broken and they're not going to be ever successful and all of that can go out the window and we can just be honest about the way in which we have to tackle, you know, education. I've been learning a lot about. I don't know if you guys have IB out there.
- [56:22]
Arlene Dickinson
It's.
- [56:22]
Joanna
It's a different type. And we've never really. I haven't been allowed to do this at, at Metro, obviously. I haven't been ever in the driving seat until now. But the more that I learn about it, it's kind of like what we're talking about. And the only way you can do it is if you have enough versatility and money in the system to allow students to sort of take advantage of this kind of. I don't want to say Montessori kind of learning, but in a way it is. It's a little bit more sporadic. It's a little bit more. It's heavily based on critical thinking. It's. And, and you need to have a staff that's more versatile in how they're going to teach it and when. And, you know.
- [57:09]
Arlene Dickinson
And you need to have the tools through computers to be able to enable that and support. Support that. And, and, and maybe that's, maybe that's. Maybe that's what we should say at the end here, is that we want to make education important again, because it is. It is. So.
- [57:25]
Joanna
That sounds like a good hat.
- [57:29]
Arlene Dickinson
I should be in marketing.
- [57:31]
Joanna
Wait a minute. I think you have a bit of experience. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it. I, I appreciate that you even cut your very nice long walk short so you could come on anytime.
- [57:44]
Arlene Dickinson
It's always fun to talk to you. And I, I was cutting you off a few times. I was getting so excited. So that's how I guess those are the best conversations.
- [57:53]
Joanna
Thank you so much. And for everybody who is listening, thank you. Don't forget to watch. Arlene is. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. When am I going to be on your show?
- [58:02]
Arlene Dickinson
Well, I think we're going to have to redo it. We have to do another episode.
- [58:07]
Joanna
But when's my episode gonna come out?
- [58:09]
Arlene Dickinson
I know. Well, Morena's gonna call you. We're gonna. We're gonna sort through it. We've gotta. We've gotta.
- [58:14]
Joanna
Oh, we have to re. Oh, okay. Okay. I like it. All right, so I will let you guys know. Arlene is alone. TV show on YouTube.
- [58:23]
Arlene Dickinson
There's gonna be an episode, and Joanna's gonna talk about everything to do with being. Well, she was single for, like, I think, three minutes.
- [58:32]
Joanna
Listen, that's all you get in World of Lesbians.
- [58:38]
Arlene Dickinson
Maybe I need to turn. I don't know. Like, maybe that's what it is. I don't.
- [58:42]
Joanna
But we got you. We got you covered on this side. All right, everybody, who's listening? Thank you for hanging out. I will see you next Tuesday. Same bat time, same bat. Channel dismissed.