The One Where EVERY Student Gets Breakfast AND Lunch

Summary

Unlearn16: Class is in Session

Episode: The One Where EVERY Student Gets Breakfast AND Lunch
Release Date: December 3, 2024
Host: Unlearn16
Guest: Jenna, Minister of Children, Family, Social Development

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Introduction to the Guest and Topic

The episode kicks off with the host, Unlearn16, introducing Jenna, the Minister of Children, Family, Social Development. The initial interaction sets a candid and humorous tone as the host navigates Jenna's lengthy title, leading to an engaging start to the conversation.

[00:03] A: "Today I have a pretty incredible guest. All right? I have a liberal cabinet minister and I'm gonna try to get this right."

---

Discussion on National Early Learning and Child Care System

Jenna details the federal government's commitment to rolling out a national early learning and child care system aimed at providing daycare at $10 a day. She explains the funding mechanism, emphasizing the transfer of taxpayer money from the federal government to provincial authorities, which then disburse funds to childcare operators.

[01:33] B: "We're rolling out our national early learning and child care system. So $10 a day, daycare."

The host raises concerns about the feasibility of such subsidies, questioning how operational costs are covered. Jenna clarifies that the funds are managed through government transfers subject to provincial administration, ensuring that the initiative is sustainable.

[02:20] A: "How do you get something to $10 a day when we need to pay child care workers, we need to pay facilities...?"

[02:42] B: "Government transfers money to each and every province and territory under certain terms and conditions..."

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Impact on Families and the Workforce

The conversation shifts to the tangible benefits for families, highlighting that the program effectively reduces childcare fees by approximately $8,000 to $9,000 annually per child. This significant reduction aids predominantly women in staying within the workforce, fostering career continuity and economic stability.

[05:08] B: "It's about transformational for parents. Like, it's about 8,000, almost $9,000 a year per child that they're saving."

The host underscores the program's role in enabling parents to maintain their careers without the burden of exorbitant childcare costs, framing it as a choice that empowers families.

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National School Food Program

Jenna introduces the national school food program, a $1 billion initiative aimed at ensuring children across Canada have access to meals at school. She explains the framework, which emphasizes universal access, nutritional guidelines, and support for local food sources.

[08:31] B: "The amazing work that I'm getting to do right now is to roll out a school food program across the country."

The host probes the program's implementation, expressing curiosity about potential pushbacks from provinces. Jenna confidently states that the majority of provinces are on board, with Ontario's recent participation being a significant milestone.

[11:05] A: "It's remarkable."

[12:09] B: "Only Nova Scotia is currently in election mode, so we will begin to be able to engage further with those provinces as well."

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Addressing Implementation Challenges and Provincial Jurisdiction

Acknowledging the complexity of provincial jurisdictions over education, Jenna explains that while the federal program sets overarching principles, the actual implementation varies across provinces. This approach respects provincial autonomy while striving for a unified national standard in child nutrition.

[14:43] A: "Education is a provincial jurisdiction. So constitutionally it is their job to handle education funds education."

[15:15] B: "We set forward kind of this overarching policy...it will look different in different parts of the country."

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Tangible Benefits and Funding Breakdown

The discussion delves into the specifics of funding allocations, particularly in Ontario. Jenna outlines that the first-year investment of $18.5 million will provide 160,000 additional children with access to school meals, totaling approximately 9.6 million meals for the school year.

[24:45] A: "Yes."

[24:46] B: "We are sending them $18.5 million. That means 160,000 more children will receive food at school."

She highlights strict guidelines ensuring that 80% of the funds are allocated directly to food, with the remaining 20% covering transportation, staffing, and necessary accommodations.

[21:12] B: "80% of that needs to be strictly food."

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Combining Social Programs for Greater Impact

Jenna emphasizes the cumulative effect of multiple social programs, such as the Canada Child Benefit, affordable childcare, and the new school food program, in lifting hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty.

[26:00] A: "How many kids do you think are living sort of at the poverty line or below in Ontario?"

[26:53] B: "This is where...the Canada Child Benefit...has helped us lift hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty since we introduced this, this version of the Canada Child Benefit in 2016."

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Addressing Critics and Taxation Concerns

The host challenges critics who argue against increased taxation by questioning the allocation of funds towards tax cuts instead of social programs. Jenna refutes these criticisms by highlighting the necessity of balanced taxation to sustain essential services.

[28:28] A: "What would you say to individuals who are constantly just talking about the reduction of income tax?"

[32:11] A: "Nothing's ever going to be perfect...when my neighbor falls, there goes my business."

[32:47] B: "You can't cut taxes and not cut spending. They have to go in hand in hand."

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Personal Perspectives on Compassion and Community

Both the host and Jenna share personal anecdotes that underscore their commitment to fostering a compassionate and supportive society. Jenna reflects on her role as a mother, emphasizing the importance of social programs in creating a stable and caring community.

[30:54] B: "I love O Canada, but I also love the people that make Canada. It's about the people...a country of compassion."

The host echoes these sentiments, advocating for a society where basic needs are met to ensure overall economic and social stability.

[35:18] A: "When people say, 'joanna, do you love your country?' I say, I love the people that I'm surrounded by."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of the government's dedication to supporting families and children through comprehensive social programs. The host and Jenna emphasize the long-term benefits of these initiatives in building a resilient and equitable society.

[37:42] B: "By giving kids the food that they need...it will lead to better education, better classroom results, better test scores."

[37:24] A: "So by giving kids the food that they need...better education, better classroom results..."

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Key Takeaways

• National Childcare Initiative: Aiming for $10 a day daycare through federal subsidies, significantly reducing costs for families and supporting workforce participation.
• School Food Program: A $1 billion commitment to provide meals to children across Canada, enhancing their educational outcomes and overall well-being.
• Funding Mechanism: Federal funds are transferred to provinces with specific guidelines, ensuring tailored implementation respecting provincial jurisdictions.
• Social Impact: Comprehensive programs collectively reduce child poverty, support families, and contribute to a stable economy.
• Addressing Criticism: Advocacy for balanced taxation to sustain essential social services, countering arguments favoring tax cuts over social investment.
• Community Focus: Emphasis on compassion and support within communities as foundational to a thriving society.

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Notable Quotes

• Jenna:

  "[02:42] Government transfers money to each and every province and territory under certain terms and conditions..."

• Host:

  "[28:28] What would you say to individuals who are constantly just talking about the reduction of income tax?"

• Jenna:

  "[32:47] You can't cut taxes and not cut spending. They have to go in hand in hand."

• Host:

  "[35:18] When people say, 'joanna, do you love your country?' I say, I love the people that I'm surrounded by."

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This episode of Unlearn16: Class is in Session provides a comprehensive look into the federal government's initiatives aimed at supporting families and children through childcare subsidies and a national school food program. Through engaging dialogue and insightful discussions, both the host and the guest highlight the importance of these programs in fostering a compassionate and economically stable society.

Transcript

[A]

Classes in session. All right, Everybody, welcome to Unlearn 16. Class is in session, guys. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Today I have a pretty incredible guest. All right? I have a liberal cabinet minister and I'm gonna try to get this right. And I practice like seven times, so when I don't get this right, I'll correct you. Okay? Minister of Children, Family, Social Development Checks, genocides. Can you explain that? That's a long title.

[B]

That's a long title. Really? My name's Jenna. Please call me Jenna. Or Jose. Sure, either. Or. The title, I mean, really, it's just about an amazing opportunity that I have to serve our country and to ensure that the best interests of families and children are at the forefront in all the decisions we make as a government.

[A]

Did they write that in the handbook?

[B]

No, I just made that up.

[A]

Throw it all away. What does it mean? Give me one. Give me one thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

One thing that you have done or that you have been a part of. Not the thing we're going to talk about.

[B]

Because I'm cheating. Sure.

[A]

One thing that you have done and you've been a part of, where you said that's made Canada better, that's made this province, this whatever. Yeah, give me one thing.

[B]

I love that question. And I won't talk about the thing we're about to talk about. The other one thing that I'm incredibly proud of.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's still underway, to be fair, is rolling out our national early learning and child care system. So $10 a day, daycare.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Well, across this country.

[A]

Okay. That's kind of rolled out already, is it not?

[B]

Work in progress.

[A]

Okay, so. So it's not, Is it, it's not full fledged in Ontario or. It's in different spots in different provinces.

[B]

It's in different spots in different provinces. So in Ontario, we have an agreement with the province. They're going to create 86,000 new child care spots over five years. So far, they're at about maybe 25,000 in Ontario. In Ontario. And they need to get to $10 a day by March20,26. As of July, or, excuse me, June. Oh, my gosh, January 1st, they'll be at $22 a day.

[A]

And as of, I think the average person sitting at home going, okay, how do you, how do you get something to $10 a day when we need to pay child care workers, we need to pay facilities, their food, whatever else goes on, all of the runny noses, I don't know, diapers, how does that happen? So it's just through subsidization so federal.

[B]

Government transfers money to each and every province and territory under certain terms and conditions, and then the provinces then administer it. So the funding goes from federal. Well, really from the taxpayers, let's be honest. Right. So from the tax base, from the federal government, then to the provincial government, and then the provincial government will then send it on to childcare operators across the country, excluding Ontario, because Ontario is always special. And Ontario sends a jealous Alberta.

[A]

Dial it down.

[B]

Ontario sends it to the municipalities.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Municipalities send it to the child care office.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. There's an extra layer there.

[A]

I think Ford's just trying to pass the buck, but anyways. Well, okay. So that's the way it works. And just to give a tiny little civics lesson, because I'm a teacher.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of people at home don't get what a subsidy is, don't get what a transfer payment is. And then we can roll into what you're doing now because a transfer of payment would look like you have a tax base coming from each province. So everybody pays income tax. It all goes to the federal government. The federal government then takes a large body of that money and tries to equalize it or equitably distribute it amongst the country because certain provinces do better than others to make sure that everybody's basic needs, at the very least, are being met.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Did I do a good job?

[B]

You got an A.

[A]

Fantastic. I do like a strong attic girl. Okay, so taking that in mind, how much? And then we're going to roll into what we want to talk about today. But how much pushback do you get when you say we're doing $10 a daycare, it's coming out of tax dollars. We're going to make sure everybody has access to it. And the taxpayer puts up their hand and says, I am t high income tax. Sure.

[B]

It happens. Absolutely.

[A]

I feel like that's all anyone's saying right now.

[B]

Yeah, it's fair. But at the same time, and I mean, I'm kind of in a fortunate position because I get to speak to a lot of the parents who are using the child care system and who are benefiting from these reduced fees. Right. And I have to tell you, like, even here in Ontario, we're only at a 50% reduction in fees. It's like transformational for parents. Like, it's about 8,000, almost $9,000 a year per child that they're saving.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. So you're not paying instrumental.

[A]

Yeah, so that's a really interesting number. So let's say now I'm gonna put the people who don't have kids over here a second. They're gonna complain separately. But for families though, because we see a lot of people saying, oh, I'm gonna give you back tax benefit. I'm going to give you $100, $200 a month. Right. So I'm just give the $200 check and hope you elect them. Not going to talk about that on this.

[B]

Not us. Not us.

[A]

But because of that. Right. So you're, you're, they're giving you these tiny little subsidies, but really when you look at $8,000, it's significant and what it allows. Yeah, for the most part, people to stay in the workforce.

[B]

Yes. Predominantly women.

[A]

Predominantly women people to stay in their careers, build their careers so they don't have to take a huge chunk of time off, then try to reinsert themselves into an economy that, let's be honest, is, well, ridiculous, because they don't want them mothers. I would hire a multitasking mother to do anything at any time, any day of the week, twice on Sundays. But that's very much the case right now. There are some stay at home moms that stay at home and do an amazing job or stay at home, dad. Amazing. But this is that choice.

[B]

This is an enabler.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It gives parents more choice. They can choose to stay home, they can choose to go back to work. Not everyone had that choice before affordable childcare was a thing.

[A]

Listen, my mom got six weeks with me. That's it, back to work. But what it also does, and I think it's not pushed for, and we don't talk about very often, is it helps create a stable economy that isn't having that push and pull that can grow at a consistent rate.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Rather than being, you know, thrown into turmoil.

[B]

Yeah, you're very right on that.

[A]

Again, another strong out of girl. I appreciate that.

[B]

A girl.

[A]

My eye is twitching. Why is that? You guys see that on camera? No, listen, running a school is a lot.

[B]

I believe it. I believe it.

[A]

Running a country.

[B]

Sorry, I'm not dealing with a few hundred years.

[A]

You just have to talk to Pierre every five seconds. He eats an apple and annoys everybody. Have you ever tried to control a 15 year old? Okay, so now there's this amazing program, which is why we're having this conversation today that I think is quite incredible because I've been working in education long enough to see it come and go. Now most kids and the, the system itself has been gutted in a lot of ways. The education system in, in this province, and it's. I have seen a slow erosion since Mike Harris, probably. So when I graduated high school, 1994, it was. You saw it. It happened then. That big teacher strike happened then. Yeah, but you started. Started to see things that were being taken away from the system. And then I went off and over the years and through. Sorry to bear the brunt of this. Conservative and liberal governments alike. You saw this system being hollowed out. Right. You had a huge strike under Kathleen Wynne, and they're forced back to work. And then the Constitution was brought into it.

[B]

Challenging.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

That's a lot. I'll give you that. Absolutely.

[A]

What is your program and how does it tie to education? Sure.

[B]

So the amazing work that I'm getting to do right now is to roll out a school food program across the country. So we, as your liberal federal government, made the decision that we were going to prioritize children. And we've made a $1 billion commitment to ensure that kids at school have food. Now, that sounds lovely. And I think most people can get behind that concept. I will tell you. Pierre Poliev has labeled it more bureaucracy.

[A]

However, Archer would say it was communist. That sounds communist. How dare you feed children.

[B]

It's. It's unbelievable, to be honest with you.

[A]

But in all fairness, have you ever watched Princess Bride?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

He keeps on using that word. I do not think it means what he thinks it means. Yeah, it's just like, constantly coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so it's a national program, $1 billion to feed kids across the board in every province.

[B]

Correct. So here's the tricky part, though.

[A]

I think there's a few.

[B]

There's a few tricky parts. Absolutely. So we announced this in our budgets back in the spring. So since that time, I have been working across the country with all provinces and territories to negotiate funding agreements with each province and territory.

[A]

I can already tell the tricky part.

[B]

It is tricky. Yes. We've got a framework, obviously, we have a policy with kind of our key principles. Ensuring it's universally accessible is sustainable. It adheres to nutrition guides, it looks to local food sources. All of these really great guiding principles. But having said that, we need each province and territory to not only agree to those principles, but to share their plan. Right, Right. So tell me how, over this school year, this first year of funding, how you are going to best use these dollars to ensure kids have access to food? So, so far, we've announced Newfoundland, Labrador, first day of school in September.

[A]

They do have a puffin.

[B]

So amazing.

[A]

They're Nice people.

[B]

They are nice people. So that was a great start to the school year. Last month we were able to announce Manitoba has moved forward and Manitoba has had a version like. Has made some investments on their own over the last few years. And so this is enabling them to do even more. And now we are announcing Ontario, which is remarkable.

[A]

Nobody can be surprised about that as much as I am right now, but I know. Look, I can see. Yeah, it is remarkable.

[B]

I'll let you go ahead.

[A]

Say remarkable for a second. You can have it for a minute.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Remarkable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My. My question is, who said. Are you allowed to say. Who said a strong. No. Get out of my.

[B]

I don't have any nos yet.

[A]

I have some ideas.

[B]

I don't have any nos.

[A]

I can't. Can you give me one legitimate reason without obviously naming names? I'll name them later in my own podcast. Who I think is being problematic and why. But who would say. Or why would they say no? What could be. Okay, forget the illegitimate reasons because they don't want the Liberal government to look good. To hell with that and elections coming up. I want to make sure that my party looks better, which could be a plague. Is there a legitimate reason that a province would be hesitant to want to implement a program like this? The way that you guys have structured it? Can you think of any legitimate reason? No, no.

[B]

We're talking about food for kids right now, to be fair. Obviously. You know, Ontario is a big step. I feel confident we'll have another province soon. We have had, I guess, four provinces that have been in election mode, too. Right. Including B.C. so now obviously they're transitioning.

[A]

Yeah, they'll be good.

[B]

So, you know, it. It had. While they were in election mode. Obviously we're not negotiating a funding agreement.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But all that to say that's starting to clear up. Only Nova Scotia is currently in election mode, so we will begin to be able to engage further with those provinces as well.

[A]

I have a question. So if you. Which is great because it's my work. If you're going to try. Let's just take school A. Okay. And let's assume there's a lot of kids from different socioeconomic backgrounds within that public school.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're going to provide food at that school. I'm assuming you aren't going to differentiate from the kid who desperately needs it, the kid that kind of needs it, and the kid that doesn't need it at all.

[B]

No. There's. Universal access is one of our key principles.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It needs to be in that obviously There can be no stigma towards going to the breakfast room or going to wherever lunch is served or the snack. There can be no stigma attached to that. You know, food should be offered on a level playing field and all children should be able to enjoy it, enjoy it together, learn together and benefit from the program. It's going to take time to get there. To be completely fair. It's going to take time. As this is being rolled out, there's obviously hurdles with respect to schools capacity, having the equipment, having the staff, all of those things are going to take a bit of time, however.

[A]

Yeah. So would it be like you'd have to make the food in your own cafeteria?

[B]

Not necessarily. So those. It will, it'll look different, frankly, everywhere across the country. Right. Because there's unique circumstances here in Ontario. So Ontario already has a student nutrition program. That nutrition program is run by 13 different community organizations.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Nutrition program organizations here.

[A]

So it's kind of already set up to be. Funding is just gonna, it's like a booster. Right, right.

[B]

Boost it all up. Right.

[A]

Now again, just a little bit of a civics lesson. Just so everybody understands, education is a provincial jurisdiction.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So constitutionally it is their job to handle ex education fund education.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And, and create curriculum and all of those things. And we can talk about my desire to nationalize education later. Maybe we should change our constitution. But how does this butt up against that? Does it?

[B]

Yeah, no, that's. It's a really good point. And that is exactly why we have approached it as we have and that we set forward kind of this overarching policy. These are the principles we need to see. We will fund the provinces that signed on, ensuring that they adhere to that policy. But undoubtedly it will look different in different parts of the country. And that is, as you've rightly said, education is provincial jurisdiction. And so who are we to dictate what that looks like? So it will look different. All that to say again, I would like to think that feeding kids at school is not political. It is not something that we should be opposing or arguing about. And frankly, I would say, although it's taking a bit of time to get everyone safe signed on, we are having productive discussions.

[A]

I think also though, I mean the, the. It's happening within schools. But to me this could be more of a human, basic rights and basic needs being met. So if people are going to speak about. On a constitutional term, let's say, sure, we're not really talking about influencing and controlling education per se. We're not talking about facilities. We're not talking about curriculum, although we should not this podcast. We're not talking about that. We're talking. It's just the location at which your government is trying to ensure that kids, especially kids below the poverty line or at the poverty line who are struggling to actually eat can have basic needs met.

[B]

Yeah, right. Absolutely. You're very right.

[A]

So I don't think it necessarily falls. I mean, it does because it's in schools, but it doesn't necessarily fall in that.

[B]

Yep, you're right.

[A]

So when you're gonna have people arguing against it, I mean, I think there are some provinces that really sort of try to puff up their chests and be a little bit more of a. I don't want to say separatist. Did I say that word? I didn't mean that word.

[B]

No.

[A]

Independent thinkers, but they don't like a sort of a heavy hand federalist kind of. Kind of leaning. But I really can't see their argument around this when in actuality, the only rules you've made. It needs to be healthy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's arguing against that? Yeah, I mean, I do like a Twinkie, so I don't maybe every once.

[B]

In a while.

[A]

Everybody who's listening to me is like, do I just go to McDonald's all the time so that it has to be healthy? I love the idea that it needs to be locally sourced. Does it make it more expensive?

[B]

Good question. I mean, that's a. It will vary, right? Like, that's a variable that I think everywhere you are will vary. But also, I mean, when it's local, there's less transportation costs. We know that nutrients are lost through transportation. So you get something fresh and it will change and it supports that local economy. Right.

[A]

Right. Now, how many kids are we talking about? There are. I just did it. I just did a TikTok about this. Not to bring up that, but 900 schools, public schools in Ontario, that was my. That was my number. I hope that it's like 940.

[B]

Maybe I want to say 450.

[A]

No, all public, like elementary and high school.

[B]

Oh, interesting. I don't know that number.

[A]

So is this just an elementary school?

[B]

It again, it depends on the province. So the province will set those parameters and it will be through the current partnerships, through those 13 school food partners. Right, right, right, right. So currently those partners are. Have a number of programs across the province. Right. I should look to find out the breakdown of where those are as far as elementary versus secondary. I don't know that off the top of my head, but having said that our investment that we're making, that we've just announced with Ontario, we'll see an additional 160,000 children. Okay. And just over, I think it's 9.6 million meals this school year. Okay. So substantial.

[A]

So how many. So you're just doing. Right, you're doing black breakfast and lunch?

[B]

Whatever is the choice. Yes. Yeah, we're not dictating that.

[A]

Do you think maybe that's a lot of space giving the province a lot. I'm just wondering if Doug Ford just serves those egg sandwiches every day from Tim Hortons. Like, I'm just. And I'm obviously joking, but, like, that would be too expensive. My question is, like, if there's not as much control over that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Are you worried about the money not going where the money's supposed to go?

[B]

I'm not. And I'll tell you why I'm not. Those 13 Ontario school food organizations or partners have been doing incredible work for a long time. I'm talking about Ontario here. And those, they do this work out of a labor of love, right? They really do. And so I feel confident that this investment we've just announced here in Ontario will enable them to just do more and that's what they really want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I will say as well, our investment here in Ontario. So the first year is $18.5 million. This, this school year. And that 80% of that needs to be strictly food.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So there are some rules around how this money is spent.

[A]

What's the 20% like?

[B]

Transportation? The other. It can be transportation. It could be staffing. It could be, you know, accommodations that need to be made. It could be fridges. Right. Whatever that looks like. Some schools obviously don't have the facilities. Exactly.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So, you know, there's a strong mandate in there to ensure. The other piece as well, which we haven't touched on, is there is as part of, in Ontario, our funding, a commitment to ensure that the indigenous or First Nations. Okay, our First Nations.

[A]

It's a second half of the party though, right?

[B]

No, it's. It's part of it. Well, it's part of this agreement with Ontario. Yeah. To ensure. So through this agreement, we will see about 130,000 additional meals served through the first nations and other partnerships for indigenous children.

[A]

And so you will partner again with that community.

[B]

Correct, with that organization. Right. So again, it's a school food organization, specifically serving indigenous within that community itself.

[A]

Any. So these organizations that are all privately run, are they non profit?

[B]

What are they?

[A]

So they're all nonprofit. So you're telling me that you're going to give the money to an Ontario. And Doug Ford is just going to hand it over in its entirety.

[B]

Yeah. So here in. I'm trying to think in Scarborough.

[A]

I mean, I like the way that sounds.

[B]

Yeah. And here. So it's the Toronto Student Success Foundation.

[A]

That's the ministry you're talking?

[B]

No, the organization. The school food partner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And they have different groups underneath them.

[B]

Exactly. That go out that actually do the work. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, that's. I don't. I can't see any downside. The only thing I guess I'm gonna ask.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because all of the numbers seem ridiculous. You ever. You ever listen to anybody talk about. I'm giving $8 billion to the. And it doesn't. The money doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. And it seems as though like, you know, the federal government's dealing in billions of dollars all over the place. And for the average person, it's like every time we turn around, we listen to lots of different levels of government say we're going to spend 100 million here, 32 million here. Is there a way. And I'm really putting on the spot, that's okay. Is there a way to boil it down so it makes a little bit more logistical sense to say your X amount of kids are gonna have this kind of food and I know. Different provinces.

[B]

Yeah, whatever.

[A]

But this is what it. Tangible, tangibly means.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Per kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the school where they need access.

[B]

Okay, sure. Give it for the whole country or for Ontario.

[A]

Calculator. No, just. Just stay in Ontario.

[B]

Stay in Ontario. Okay.

[A]

Again, we talk about the whole country and I think people get overwhelmed and I think there's all these incredible ideas and they're shot at you. And I. And I think people kind of just turn them off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just like. Sure, they are. Sure they are. But this is incredibly important and understand it. And then to actually see the rollout, I think matters. So. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so Ontario, year one.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We are sending them $18.5 million.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That means 160,000 more children will have access or. Excuse me, will receive food at school.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That brings overall, the total number of children who have access to food at school this year will be 1 million. 1 million children in Ontario.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. Meals is with this additional investment this school year, 9.7 more meals served at school this school year.

[A]

How many.

[B]

That's tangible.

[A]

That's tangible. How many kids right now in Ontario would You say, and I know I'm asking a lot of numbers here, but you.

[B]

I love numbers.

[A]

How many kids. I'm a big. I'm a big. I should have brought a whiteboard or a child. How many kids do you think are living sort of at the poverty line or below at this very moment in Ontario? Like, I've heard stats over in Canada where, you know, we're over a million children living below the poverty line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not having basic. And so when I say the poverty line, I mean, who's not having basic needs met? Food, clothing, shelter. Right. That's what we're talking about.

[B]

Yeah. That's a tough number. Yeah. To pin down, to be fair. And I would suggest, like, one kid is one too many, right?

[A]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, let's be honest. You know, we've, you know, you asked me earlier on about something I'm really proud about. Well, let me give you one more thing because it relates to this conversation, and that's the Canada Child Benefit. Right. So anyone who has kids under 18 in this country, you know, if you talk to them, most of them will be receiving or had received the Canada Child Benefit. It can be. It's a sliding scale, but it goes up to about $7,600 every year per child. It arrives every month in people's bank accounts.

[A]

This is like what the baby bonus used to be.

[B]

Used to be, yes. But on steroids. Yes. I remember it. It was so exciting when our mom opened that check and took it to the bank. I remember that. Okay, well, it's not 36 bucks anymore. And it's completely. Yeah, completely rethought process to ensure. And so this is where I'm going back to your original point. It has helped us lift hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty since we introduced this, this version, this Canada child benefit in 2016. And so that's going back to the, you know, one kid is too many. When I look at the work that we've done so since our government came into power in 2015, whether it's the Canada Child Benefit, whether it's affordable child care, whether it's now moving forward with this national school food program, whether it's our new dental benefit, moving forward with pharmacare, when you stack these programs on top of each other, it is really, really impactful, especially for those who are struggling. You know, I, again, I have the benefit of getting to talk to moms and dads and kids everywhere in this country, and I'll tell you, the stories are heartwarming. Like this is impactful work. And, you know, are we done? No, there's still more we need to do. There's still a lot of work to be done. But brick by bit, brick, I think we're making a difference.

[A]

What do you say to the people that's smirk. Uh, oh, no. To the people that say. I know what I would say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I would say it probably sarcastically, but what would you say to individuals who are constantly just talking about the reduction of income tax, the reduction of taxes in general. So that. That's $7,600. Why did we take it from them in the first place? Why not just leave it in their pockets? Why not? I'm gonna sound like a parrot in a second. Why not let Canadians decide how to use their. Why not That. I mean, I.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Again, I have a good reason, but I'd like to hear yours.

[B]

Well, I frankly. Well, first of all, I'm a mom as well, outside of this. Right. And I think being A mom raising three kids over the last 18 years gives you perspective. And, you know, this is Canada.

[A]

Did I possibly mess up the filming of this? Listen, I've told you about my Itwitch. I pressed a button on something. Things stopped recording. You were right about to talk about Canada, and I. Pierre. Polly. Have you.

[B]

Ah, the nerve of you.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I'm gonna put this down and you're gonna tell me. I am trying. It is a Wednesday. Is it Wednesday? What day is it? The kind of country you want to live in is premised on what. Because this is important. A lot of my kids will talk to me about, like, I'm not a big flag person. I'm not even. I used to. Like, I'm going to sell something offensive. Wait, you're going to hate me even more right now. I'm not even a big national anthem person. Wait, wait. What I am is I'm a big idea person, and I am a community person. So when people say, joanna, do you love your country? I say, I love the people that I'm surrounded by. Land doesn't have meaning to me. People do. And the more we push off symbolism to land and to flags and to symbols, I think that kind of patriotism falls very shallow and doesn't have a lot of depth. You know, governments change. It's not to the government.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's to an idea. And so if I'm to ask you what's your idea of Canada that you hold closely? All of the things that we've talked about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What does that look like to you.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I kind of love what you just said. No, I love the. And I love O. Canada, but I also love the people that make Canada. Right. Like, that's what it's all about. It's about the people, the Canadians across this country who make it what it is. Right. And you know, back to our earlier conversation. You know, I'm incredibly proud as a Canadian that we are a country that helps lift others up. Up. Right. That we have strong social programs to ensure that people don't get left behind, that those that are struggling have access to programs that help to support them. Like, as a mom, I've got three teenagers and. Yeah. Mind blown. I know. Teenagers.

[A]

I think my eyes twitching for you.

[B]

Thank you. I need that proximity. Three teenage girls. Anyways. All that to say, like, the country that I want to be raising them, that I have raised them in is a country of compassion, a country of people that care about their neighbors and are there for them. Absolutely.

[A]

And with that, we'll be able to roll right back into the other mistakes that I made. And I'll pick up what I said right now.

[B]

You can't cut taxes and not cut spending. Right. They have to go in hand in hand. So, you know, we have Pierre Poliev. I listen to him all the time in the House of Commons.

[A]

Should I get you an apple?

[B]

I need an apple. You're right. Where's.

[A]

Can't talk about an apple.

[B]

Somebody, you know, all he talks about is cuts, cuts, cuts. There's an apple.

[A]

Good.

[B]

And you can't. You can't, you know, maintain what we have as a country or accelerate, frankly, some of the supports that are really necessary and things like a national school food program without corresponding taxes that support these programs.

[A]

Can I add something?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

My eyes still twitching.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

What is wrong with me? Water. I like to frame it this way because I know a lot of people talk about taxes. We have whatever's going on south of the border right now. Everybody's being run by a very strong fear of their economic safety and security.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's real. There's no. There's no conversation. And it always is real. And I think in times of that economic insecurity, it's very sort of, you know, Thomas Hobbes, where people are willing to give up a hell of a lot of freedom and a lot of their own sort of personal, you know, civil rights in order to be ensured that everything is going to be perfect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First of all, nothing's ever going to be perfect. That's Ridiculous. And if somebody's trying to sell you a simplistic answer to a complex solution, understand their line. But I also think this. I think by my neighbor, using your, you know, your comparison, My neighbor having a sense of stability in their lives, even if they're working, let's say, a minimum wage job, and they're holding on very, very tightly and they're making it work, but it's, it's kind of at the bare minimum, ensuring those people don't fall.

[B]

If I'm just.

[A]

Even if I'm. Let's say I'm a horrible person, let's say, even if I don't care about other people, let's say I just care about me and what I'm going to achieve if my neighbor falls.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I will have to pay.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

My health care costs will go up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Crime will go up. Security issues will go up. When, when my neighbor falls, there goes my business. Nobody's buying from my store anymore. If we don't have a consistent middle class lifting up people that are at that breaking point. Because if we can do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That stability helps everybody. And I'm so exhausted hearing people say, you're on bootstraps. Kind of people. Trickle down economics. I mean, Reagan's been gone a long time. It's all been disproven.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, when they, when they talk to me and they'll say, oh, Joanna, but you're so utopian. And it's all like holding hands and singing Koopa. No, be selfish. Be selfish. You own a business. Be selfish. Understand? If your neighbor can't buy your product, you go out of business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You all fall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And I think kids being able to eat, and as a teacher, funnily enough, I'm eating an apple. I brought in a bag of apples the other day and I took a bite and because students are heathens, I had a student say, can I have that? I said, you want the apple? I've just bit. Well, I haven't. You know, it's like kids are like starved. And these are kids. I work at a. Listen, I work at a, at a, at a private school. My kids are. But the problem is we, We've shifted to a society where it's like very easily accessible food. It's a lot of bad food. Again, I'm going through all the drive through and I bring in some apples.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And all of a sudden kids are like, oh, my God, I feel so much better when I eat that.

[B]

It's so true.

[A]

I feel I work better than an apple. I work better when I have food in my stomach. I have kids that are rolling into class that haven't eaten because they just don't have time for it. But the way that it changes education, people still, we. We haven't even got to this. And I've been talking a long time, so I'm not gonna keep you here all night. But when. When kids have something in their stomachs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it means their brains can work.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If they don't again. And this is a societal issue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If they can focus and they can get their work done and they can understand it and they can become more aware and more empowered and they move on to do. Guess what? We've just created that exact story. So. That I've just talked about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So by giving kids the food that they need, by ensuring that both kids that desperately need it, economically, socially, culturally, that is all incredibly important. But it will lead to better education, better classroom results, better test scores, better all of those things.

[B]

My job here is done, dismissed.