The One Where I Was 'Nursed into Health'...That's Not What This Book Is About

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unlearn16 - "The One Where I Was 'Nursed into Health'...That's Not What This Book Is About"

Episode Information

• Title: The One Where I Was 'Nursed into Health'...That's Not What This Book Is About
• Host: Unlearn16
• Guest: Angela Johnson (Unlearn16’s mother)
• Release Date: June 25, 2025

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode kicks off with Unlearn16 (referred to as Speaker A) successfully bringing his mother, Angela Johnson (Speaker B), onto the podcast. The initial moments are light-hearted, featuring playful banter about Angela's appearance and their dynamic relationship.

Notable Quote:

• A (00:03): "Trying to get my mom...is useful?"
• B (00:22): "Why do I look so horrible?"

2. Family Dynamics and Early Life

The conversation delves into the history of Unlearn16’s parents' separation when he was three years old. Angela shares the pivotal moment that led to their divorce—her realization that their daughter Joanna sensed the tension at home.

Notable Quotes:

• A (01:30): "Fight in private."
• B (02:03): "I was looking out of a window...are you mad at daddy again because he's not home in time?"

Angela emphasizes that the divorce was her decision, highlighting her proactive role in ensuring a stable environment for Joanna despite personal challenges.

3. Understanding Divorce and Its Impact

Angela reflects on her parents' divorce, noting her father's infidelity and the lasting impact it had on the family. Despite the separation, the father remained present in family gatherings, showcasing a complex yet respectful relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• B (05:23): "He was always invited. He was always there."
• A (06:38): "Broken home. Because it's really nice."

4. Career Influence and Building Confidence

The discussion shifts to Angela’s career as a nurse and how her passion and dedication influenced Unlearn16’s confidence and teaching style. Angela attributes her ability to empower others to her experiences in nursing, where empathy and competence are paramount.

Notable Quotes:

• A (21:16): "We talk about teaching the way you educated..."
• B (22:05): "Nursing was my career and I loved it."

5. Parenting Philosophy and Strategies

Angela and Unlearn16 share their approaches to parenting, emphasizing the importance of making children feel loved and valued. They discuss the shift from traditional punishment to allowing children to decide their own consequences, fostering responsibility and self-reflection.

Notable Quotes:

• B (53:23): "Make them know that they are loved."
• A (33:05): "You think you thought about it long and hard."

Angela recounts a recent experience with a student, illustrating the effectiveness of letting children determine appropriate consequences for their actions.

6. Healthcare System and Empathy

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the healthcare system, particularly nursing. Angela criticizes the decline in empathy among modern nurses, contrasting it with her own experiences where genuine care was evident.

Notable Quotes:

• B (24:07): "There's been a fair amount of time... the majority don't care now."
• A (24:33): "If you're not letting in sometimes that negative stuff doesn't affect you..."

7. Personal Challenges: Cancer Journey

Unlearn16 opens up about his battle with cancer and the role mindset played in his healing process. He describes how immunotherapy changed his perspective, turning his fear into a manageable challenge and highlighting the importance of mental resilience.

Notable Quotes:

• A (28:12): "If that's true, then the soft skills have to matter."
• B (30:07): "She’s been in remission for almost two years."

8. Childhood Independence and Safety

Reflecting on his childhood, Unlearn16 shares stories illustrating the balance of independence and safety. From playing in parks to handling unexpected situations, these anecdotes underscore the trust and confidence instilled by his mother.

Notable Quotes:

• A (51:42): "I thought she knew where to go."
• B (52:10): "We moved before you got to be 8."

9. Teaching Lessons and Empowerment

Drawing parallels between his upbringing and his teaching philosophy, Unlearn16 emphasizes empowering students through confidence-building and allowing them to take ownership of their actions. This approach fosters a respectful and responsible learning environment.

Notable Quotes:

• A (33:30): "I never make a kid read out loud."
• B (34:08): "I thought you're not smart enough, good enough..."

10. Closing Thoughts and Parenting Advice

As the episode wraps up, Angela offers succinct parenting advice: ensuring children know they are loved and prioritized. This core message encapsulates the essence of their discussion on fostering healthy, confident individuals.

Notable Quote:

• B (53:23): "Make them know that they are loved. And they're. For they. They come first."

Conclusion

This episode of Unlearn16 provides an intimate glimpse into the host’s relationship with his mother, Angela Johnson. Through candid conversations, they explore themes of family dynamics, parenting, career influences, personal struggles, and the importance of empathy and love. The blend of personal anecdotes and reflective insights offers valuable lessons for listeners seeking to understand the intricate balance of nurturing and empowering the next generation.

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Key Takeaways:

• Empathy and Confidence: Angela’s nursing career and parenting style heavily influence Unlearn16’s approach to teaching and personal development.
• Parenting with Consequences: Allowing children to determine their own consequences fosters responsibility and self-awareness.
• Mindset in Healing: A positive and resilient mindset plays a crucial role in overcoming personal health challenges.
• The Importance of Love: Consistently showing love and prioritizing children’s emotional needs is fundamental to their growth and confidence.

For more insightful discussions and chapters related to Unlearn16’s book, be sure to check out the rest of the podcast series.

Transcript

[A]

Classes in session. Hey, everybody, and welcome to Unlearn 16. Classes in session. Guys, listen. Trying to get my mom. This is my mom, Angela Johnson. You guys have seen her in my videos. Don't pretend you don't know who she is. Trying to get her on this podcast has taken some work, and she just stepped up here and said, what'd you say?

[B]

Why do I look so horrible?

[A]

Guys, in the comments, tell her how good she looked. First of all, you just got very nice.

[B]

I don't need for people just to tell this old lady that she looks good. Oh, lady. When she really doesn't look good.

[A]

It's already taking a turn. I like it already.

[B]

I look way better downstairs than I looked up.

[A]

You look better downstairs. You think it's the light?

[B]

It was darker. I don't want to look like 77.

[A]

You don't want to look 77. 70. Is that how old you're going to be?

[B]

Huh?

[A]

77?

[B]

I looked okay at 68.

[A]

Listen, the can. You took a bit of a hit. The cancer, you took a bit of a hit, but it didn't knock you out. And it is your hair in your eyes there. Is that bugging you?

[B]

It's supposed to look like that.

[A]

I just pulled the hair off her chin that was like this long. Just so you guys know, it's supposed to look neat. Okay. Sorry, I didn't.

[B]

Neat.

[A]

I didn't make it look neat. I just. Guys, you're just going to sit here for an hour while we squabble? Remember that time we got caught in Walmart talking bad to each other? Like, oh, my God, I learned 16.

[B]

I'm like, oh, no, I know. We learned a long time ago. We can't really say what's on our minds.

[A]

Fight in private. So this chapter. You've read my book. You've read the chapter. And this chapter is all about our relationship. But not so much about just our relationship, but about, I guess, well, the way that I was raised. But the kind of person you were, not just the kind of mother you were. So most of this, I mean, you got divorced? Well, separated when I was like, three.

[B]

Three.

[A]

Yeah, Right. You're like, I'm done. Yeah, all done now. You were always friends with Dad.

[B]

I was.

[A]

He was always in our world. He was. You guys were always, you know.

[B]

Did you want to know why I. Terrified right now?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Why? I was at 3.

[A]

You can tell these people anything you want.

[B]

It was because my little baby, Joanna, three years old. Actually, I was looking out of a window in my kitchen and the window looked towards the street. And she saw me doing that one day and she said to me, are you mad at daddy again because he's not home in time?

[A]

Oh.

[B]

That was when I. That was my decision because up until then I didn't understand that Joanna. I didn't think Joanna clued into anything that was going on in our house. Like, we were both her. Her dad and I behaved well in front of her. We didn't. We didn't really fight in any. Anywhere.

[A]

Dad's not a.

[B]

He wasn't a fighter. No.

[A]

It would be a lot of energy, but.

[B]

But this little three year old had the intuition of knowing that something was wrong. And that's when it was. You know what? I. I don't want to go. I was there because I thought I was doing good for my daughter and I wasn't.

[A]

Well, that's horrible. So technically, I caused my parents divorce. Technically my. Kind of did. Okay, so. And by the way, I never. A lot of people think that divorce causes, you know, and all sorts of things cause harm to everybody, but I don't have, funnily enough, just so you know. And I mean, you already know, but I don't have sort of a negative recollection of any of that. I think until I was about 12, I thought you guys split up because you liked watching figure skating and dad liked watching mash. True story. Like, I remember that thought because obviously at some point you guys must have said, I want. Literally. And this is how big the fight would have been. I want to watch figure skating. The Olympics are on. Dad's. Well, MASH is on. You can watch it. It probably was like that. You don't even recall.

[B]

I don't even think we had that kind of conversation. It again was something because she knew he liked mash and you knew I like the Olympics. And you put that together.

[A]

You think I just manufactured it?

[B]

I. I think you sensed it.

[A]

Interesting. Interesting. Now and again, you know, a lot of people, you can talk as openly as you want on here about, about dad and your relationship, but when you decided to get a divorce, technically you decide. You. You put it on him.

[B]

I did.

[A]

You said so isn't that interesting? You said, if you want to come back, you come back, but you stay and we fix it and we do all these things. If you don't, just don't come back. And he didn't. Pretty much.

[B]

Actually. I gave him a two week period.

[A]

He got two weeks.

[B]

If you're. If you're. Well, we were separated before that because I After that conversation, you looking at the street or out the window, I said, let's go visit Grandma. And so we left.

[A]

Side note, Ruby not happy with this scenario or my dad forever. But anyway.

[B]

But they did get past it.

[A]

Oh, but you know why? Well, they did get past it. They did. And my grandma. Grandma had like very soft feelings about my dad. It's just that she knew my. There was infidelity, that. That my dad was a nice person. He was never, you know, never yelled, never any of those things. He was a guy that was unfaithful. Because I. We've talked that he was just looking my dad if it. At this point, if I could look back. My dad was somebody who was. He always felt like he was looking for something to make himself happy outside of himself. Right. And we don't need to go down that road today necessarily. And grandma was mad that he hurt you and he broke up our family. And you know, rightly so, as any mom would be. You know, you're the one that did this to my kid. But you kept that. Like he came to. He was at every Christmas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every family gathering, whether grandma was there, you know, grandma was there or not. He was always invited. He was always there.

[B]

Ray and he always came.

[A]

Ray would come with us to his side of the family, which Ray just absolutely loved.

[B]

Well, it wasn't any fault. It wasn't your fault. You shouldn't have had to suffer any of that. I felt it was bad enough that you had to come from a broken home and I didn't want that for you.

[A]

That's an interesting word though, right? A broken home. Broken home. Because it's really nice.

[B]

It fixed it.

[A]

It. That is exactly what I was going to say. And it didn't just fix that dynamic, but I think. And this is what I want to talk about in some ways. I don't want to mean that you were broken before, but you've talked about this before. Like it kind of fixed you. It kind of gave you a shove.

[B]

It did.

[A]

So what. What do you. Why do you think that was?

[B]

I. I just before. Before that I was very meek, mild young woman. Child. Even before I. At school, I could not speak. It's kind of funny that. Sorry that I have Joanna here that doesn't ever know when to stop.

[A]

But you just left all that space.

[B]

Yeah, I wasn't like that. I was the exact opposite. Very shy. I hated to be asked a question in school. So that's how I continued in my life. And now I don't think it was Totally your dad. I think it was also that I was, by the time I did separate from him, I was nursing and I was becoming comfortable in what I was doing.

[A]

Good at it.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I knew I knew something more than someone else. And until then, I don't, I don't think I really thought that.

[A]

I don't think you've ever said that before. So there was an aspect of, like, gaining not just knowledge, but sort of a capacity, like you fel. Empowered. Because for the first time, when you say you know something more than somebody else, I think what you probably felt was value.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like a personal level of esteem.

[B]

Myself. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe you didn't feel from school or you didn't feel from, you know, relationship. Yeah.

[B]

But I found that I had to do that. I had it evolved, but I had to because I had a little girl and she was going to have the best life going and, and so she needed to have a stronger mom that took care of all that needed to be taken care of.

[A]

Do you think you thought that, though, at the time? You think you thought that big?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I thought long and hard about. Which is kind of funny, but long and hard about every decision I made with you or, you know, like, I never, it wasn't spontaneous. One time I spontaneously got angry at you.

[A]

Caribbean.

[B]

This is pg, I know, but angry at you. And you actually, you, because you were only little and you ran into the street and a car was coming.

[A]

Oh, this is a good story.

[B]

I, I, I might have got my.

[A]

Butt smacked for you just a little bit.

[B]

And I brought you back to the house, hand on, on the bum. Slapping. Yeah, slapping on your bum. Holding the other hand.

[A]

People right now are like, oh, my God. But I could just envision the, the scene and, and the panic that you would have had and that you would have with.

[B]

And it, but, but, and, and so, yeah. And that was the only time I've ever hit Joanna. And I hated myself for doing it, but I wasn't in control. And so that's when I realized I had to be in control because she, Even in that kind of a situation, it's not good to smack a child. It's not.

[A]

Show them what you do. When I was little. Go on, show them. Show the people. But this is abuse. It's not. Guys, When I would talk too much, and this is the only thing my mom's ever done to me, don't start talking right now. That's what she would do. I developed a TMJ dysfunction, I think, because of that. That was it. But that was it. I was never there.

[B]

But.

[A]

But I think being out of control, that's just funny. But I think being out of control, because a lot of parents talk about this, A lot of parents talk about that. That should be allowed. That shouldn't be allowed. And you just decided that. No, because you weren't in control. And the moment you're in control, that's not the go to way to discipline or teach or inspire your kid. Right. Like, if you have a moment where you're calm, cool and collected about it, you realize you're not going, oh, I'm gonna go get that, you know.

[B]

No, no, it's. Well, that's like I used to discipline you when you were small. Right, right, right. Small. And. And Joanna did some naughty things. You know, she. Her. The first thing she did. And you had to be in two to three somewhere in there because you still slept in your, in your crib with the side down so you can get in and out, but you were still that small and you were in and having an afternoon nap. And she. She loved. Even then you love going to bed, eh? You like it now? Yeah, true. And so she'd be up there and I had her. Her little steps. So I, I got up, I. I was in the living room downstairs, and I went upstairs and looked at her and she was in her bedroom. And I don't know if you guys remember, but you used to be able to get a blush stick, so it was something like this. And you just sort of rubbed it on here so it looked like a deodorant stick almost. Right. And. And here she was painting the floor under her crib.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say I put it on my face.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

I've never wore makeup a day in my life.

[B]

Didn't wanna do that.

[A]

Didn't wanna.

[B]

No. And. And you just were rubbing it on. I was an artist. On the carpet.

[A]

On the carpet.

[B]

The carpet.

[A]

Oh, in my head it was hardwood. No, of course not. No.

[B]

The carpet was white. Anyway. And I went in there and I looked at her and I said, get out of my sight for a while. Go in your room. I don't want to see.

[A]

But it was in my room.

[B]

Well, it was going to. Yeah, it was. But no, it was going around to the next room kind of thing. And no more than she did. No more than five minutes.

[A]

I can't believe I didn't put this story in the book.

[B]

She came back to me and she stood over my shoulders and don't ask me how she knew this, but she said, I think he can get that out with vinegar.

[A]

I. I should have been given up for adoption.

[B]

Oh, I just, you know, what a minute of just, like, awe. And then I laughed because maybe that's why I expect more.

[A]

Maybe that's why I pressed so hard on comedy as a person.

[B]

But that's how you would, too, if we weren't in the mall and you'd lay down on the floor because you'd had enough. And we used like a. Like Raggedy Andy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I. I just. Come on, we've got to go. We gotta go. And you just lay there until I actually had to get down on the floor and sit beside her and laughed. So that's.

[A]

We.

[B]

We just did that. Right.

[A]

That's so funny. So the fact that you didn't, you know, give me away at that point, I guess, is pretty impressive.

[B]

Oh, because she was so cute and so lovely.

[A]

That was it.

[B]

Kind of like the dog.

[A]

Kind of. Anybody know Presley is the prize child now? From little.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is something that I think is super important. I do talk from little. You took me to work with you.

[B]

I did.

[A]

From very little. Yeah. I don't know if that should have been allowed. Well, like, it was a hospital, probably. My mom was a nurse forever. And I mean, take me to work, not for a visit when she wasn't on duty.

[B]

She come with me for the whole day.

[A]

But little.

[B]

Little, but you would be. Well, we did go for a short visit.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's when you. When you walked to my manager for the first time, you took your first step. But that would be just a little bit visit. But it started because I used to work nights over New Year's. And so it started where on New Year's night, myself and a friend of mine, the nurse there, brought her daughter and we put them in Jerry. Chairs. They are now, you know, the chairs that you see all patients in the halls.

[A]

Like, they're like chairs, like big recliners, like hospital recliners that you lean back in.

[B]

And we put. We feed them dinner late. Oh, they're still around, but not too many. So we'd give them something to eat and. And then put them to bed and they'd sleep there all night. So that's when that started.

[A]

Wonder why I've never liked New Year's.

[B]

But you were fine. Then you got really. Oh, that smells.

[A]

Please. That's perfect. This is the perfect. You keep telling the story. I'm just gonna get up and shut off her thing. Continue.

[B]

But that's when it started. And. And by then, I mean, you. You have to have got that. I was. I was pretty good friends with my manager and. And she let us do that. And it was both of us, so it wasn't just me.

[A]

So this would have been in the 80s, right? That's what we're talking about right now. Right. Because I would have been 5 and 19.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I don't think it would.

[B]

Very early.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. No, but around that.

[B]

Yeah, but then it would. It would be. There was a day I couldn't. Couldn't get a babysitter or was having a hard time, and my manager said, I'll just bring her in. And so then she started coming in. And you were going in until you were seven. So it's a couple of years in there.

[A]

Right. Because it was seven.

[B]

We moved. Yeah. And. And we go in and you do rounds with me in the morning. So I'd introduce you to all of my patients. And it was days, I tell you, when. When I worked on a floor. 15 bed. No, 28 bed unit. 15 of those patients were plastic surgery patients, so they could have been burned patients, disfigured people. Some nose jobs, some facelifts, so some minor stuff and some not so minor. And then there's 15 of those and 13 ear, nose and throat patients. And you had some of those that were tonsillectomies. So we had different kind of people that. In the hospital than that you have in now. Like, all that stuff would be going home.

[A]

Day surgery. Yeah. Tonsils in, out you go.

[B]

Yeah. But in the middle of all that, we had laryngectomy patients. That's where people have the hole in their throat. Tracheostomies, laryngectomies. Facial disfiguration kind of meshed with the plastics. So there was a lot of noticeable things going on with these patients. And anyway, I take Joanna and never hit her from anything. You know, we'd go and she'd meet people. You never really. As. As a young person. Well, even as a. You never really questioned how anyone looked. I don't know that you really did do still.

[A]

But I did I get grossed out because now.

[B]

No.

[A]

Pass out.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I think. Yeah. The. The getting nauseous and all that. I really just think it's you. If I'm in an emergent situation.

[B]

Oh, and it's me getting sick or something.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm. I can negot. But as soon as it's not emergent and like, when the ambulance is coming in. You have to lie on the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. So I would go in these rooms. People would have holes in their throats, and sometimes there'd be, you know, it would be bloody or it would be messy. Messy or whatever. And I don't think I reacted too poorly.

[B]

No, you. You didn't at all. I don't. I don't know that that's. I didn't think that you ever really just noticed that maybe, you know, that wasn't.

[A]

Well, because you were taking me so young. I guess I just thought, you know, some people. Look, some people had this issue. Yeah. It wasn't like anything. I mean, I don't remember it, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. No. And. And it would be the same if we were out too, because you would see other people outside you. When I grew up, I don't know if any one of you were around when people. The couldn't hear. So deaf people would be out outside. You'd be walking in the mall or something, and someone had to come and stand in front of you. And I remember one time saying, this person standing. And I was older. What's this person standing in front of me for? And I kind of move away and they come in again until I sort of looked and they were holding a little card on sign language.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

To teach you. And. And I remember feeling really bad now. My mom was with me who said, don't, don't, don't go. So my mom was like that. That was grammar, Ruby. And because. Because she thought it would be upsetting and that. That's why that came to me.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. And so. So I think. I think that I made sure that you didn't respond to people that way.

[A]

Well, I think that's what you did, though. Like, I don't know. It must have been. And it is so subconscious. All of that time that I spent with you at the hospital or you coming home, talking about the hospital and talking about, like, what you. What you've done and what you've gone. What you've gone through or all of those things. And it made me. It's funny that you said that you got your confidence from having a sense of esteem from what you did and that you did it well. Because I honestly believe that my baby confidence, even though, you know, I'm telling you to paint the floor, I think it came from that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Watching you maybe do cool stuff and not just like, you know, I used to think dad typed because he had a typewriter. I saw what you did. Like it was, it was very crystal clear what you did, the way you did it, the way you connected with people, the way you took and finally enough and was. We talk about teaching the way you educated because you always thought, when you talk about that, you always thought that you, that was your job.

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, because, and I think that's because I knew what I was doing was good. It was excellent work. I cared about all my patients, and I wanted to teach other people how to do it my way because it was the best way.

[A]

There it is. You wonder where I get my bravada from. That's it right there. Because you and, and I, and I lived that for such a long period of time. Then we moved up to the store.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We bought the store with, with Graham and Grandpa, and we lived up there for a relatively short time. Not really that long. Like three years, really, from grade three to grade six and then grade seven, we moved back. And you, did you miss nursing in that period, or did you just hate running the store with grandma and Grandpa?

[B]

No, no, I really miss nursing. I, I, Nursing was my career and I, and I loved it. I loved everything about it. I shed tears over my job. And I don't know if a lot of people think that that's a good thing.

[A]

Why wouldn't, why wouldn't that be a good thing? You mean because you lost patience or because it was hard?

[B]

Because I lost patience.

[A]

And you think people would think that's a bad thing? Why would that be a bad thing?

[B]

Because you need to be empathetic, not sympathetic.

[A]

No, I think it's the opposite. You need to be sympathetic, not empathetic. Meaning you don't need to feel it? Yeah, I think that's garbage. I, I, I don't, I think that's, I don't believe that at all. Because, because if you're not letting in sometimes that negative stuff doesn't affect you, then all the great stuff, like people healing and, and, and triumphing and going through all of that doesn't get in either. What a waste of a job.

[B]

But I, but I, I think that that's what.

[A]

I think it's a bad expectation.

[B]

I mean, obviously I did because I didn't do it.

[A]

Do you think that? Yeah, I mean, oh, we can't speak to the way that training works now. I just think it's a person. But the more people, like all of the good nurses that I've ever met, have empathy, that's what they lead with. And then close behind comes competency and intelligence. But if you're not leading with empathy in that job, which, again, I think directly transfers to how I teach, I don't think you're doing a good job. Same. True.

[B]

Maybe that's because that's what you've seen and you saw it as you thought it was good and as I thought what I was doing was good.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But there are many. It's kind of hard because I totally believe in that. So it's hard to explain why someone that has a degree in English could be a better nurse than someone that doesn't have a degree in English.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You're talking about. There was a shift in training for.

[B]

Nurses, the whole training thing. I trained in the hospital. That's where I was a Wellesley nurse. And forever until they ripped it down and they trained good nurses. There's still people. Nurses I know today that are. Well, are the similar kind of nurses that actually appear to care.

[A]

But you can see those all regardless of training.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

There's been a fair amount of time.

[B]

In hospital, but the majority don't care now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's face it. Disappointed.

[A]

Listen, that's a whole other. But do you think the majority don't care or do you think the majority have been forced in a position where they don't necessarily. Although, I don't know, Mom, I. I think you. You had one bad experience when. When we won't be naming hospitals today, but one bad experience. Unfortunately, that kind of lingered. But I will give a shout out. But when we were in that Ajax Hospital, when you had a heart rate of 26. Hospital was in there. And not just that entire hospital, but nurses and doctors that actually you could just see you. You. Because then you were taken care of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I. I think possibly you remembering the bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

More because it was disappointing and because it felt like a letdown for what you put into a profession and then the way that you were treated.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But that's one hospital. That was one hospital, unfortunately, in one particular.

[B]

In a hospital that is very specialized in certain things and. And you get that special care there. So, you know, you go to the hospital so you can get well and get out. There's just the softer skills that I think they've.

[A]

Well, I think. But again, I think some people forget. I don't know if some people are good at them. I don't know if those soft skills you're talking about. I don't know if you could teach them. No, I don't know if you can teach somebody how to have Empathy and how to lead with those soft skills. Because you said maybe that's not the way they should be nursing or doctoring. I don't know if that's right. Maybe that's not the way the healthcare system should work. However, you've just been through hell and back and still, you know, having to struggle with different things. But your mindset, you know, your mindset made a huge difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For positive or negative. So if that's true, then the soft skills have to matter.

[B]

But maybe they matter on the kind of satisfaction that you get out of your job as opposed to anything else.

[A]

But if. If I'm saying, like, putting you in the right mindset, you know, like Anna telling you to, like, repeat those things at night or. Or, you know, you have a moment where you get to be sad and you get to be frustrated and you get to be all of those things, and then we. We have to shift our mindset a little bit. If that's true, and that helped you heal and that helped you at least forget, heal, wrap your head around how to then take another step the next day, even if it wasn't always, you know, to me, having a healthcare system that has been trained and understands that that's just as important as the chemo, as the immunotherapy, as all of those other things. Because if your mindset's not right, like when you sat. When we sat in that room and they said, you know, they took out your bladder, we thought it was gone. We thought you did the chemo. And we got called back in and she said, well, you have three mets in your lungs. I know for a fact. Me and you looked at each other and went, well, that's it. That's it. We had a moment where we looked at each other and went. If I swore on this, I would say it, but because that's you. We knew. You knew from your history. I knew from all the House and Grey's Anatomy. I watched that once. It metastasizes your. It's like rust on a car right then.

[B]

But the best thing is it's not anymore.

[A]

Well, but this is the thing. In that moment, we didn't know that.

[B]

That's right. And I thought.

[A]

I thought I was going to fall apart. I didn't have time to fall apart. I thought you were going to fall apart. And then we talked to the doctor with the immunotherapy guy, and he started talking about it and what he said to us. And I swear to God, this one, I don't remember his name, do you remember his name?

[B]

No, I only ever saw him the ones, actually. It was the. He was the respirologist.

[A]

Doctor, by the way, her oncologist, Dr. Jiang. I'm gonna say her name because she's incredible. Princess Margaret. Oh, I wish I could remember his name. He sat down with us after hearing all this, and they. They said they're going to try this new thing called immotherapy, which had only been going on for about five years when she started it. And he said, listen, two things. Number one, immo therapy is. Is doing great things. And what our goal is with immo therapy is to minimize the. Any progression. So however big the met was, our goal is just to keep it that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, if it's a centimeter, cool. You can live with a centimeter, you know, tumor somewhere. You can live with it forever. And he said, people talk about cancer like it's either end of life or you're in remission. And he said, the vast majority of cancer is neither. The vast majority, he said, is fighting it in different ways every single day, or maybe not every single day. Maybe going into remission, coming out of remission, fighting it this way, fighting it this way, maybe surgery, maybe all of these different things. He goes, and that could be 20, 25, 30 years. He goes, that's the way it's going. And there was a. There was a moment that was before it worked, just to let you guys know. It worked before it worked. He changed both of our mindsets then. He did in that moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And I don't know if that mindset.

[B]

Helped her, because you.

[A]

I mean, she's been in remission for how long?

[B]

Almost two years.

[A]

Almost two years. And she's like a little bit of a poster child because they keep taking her case everywhere they go, saying, look, immunotherapy, remission, because that wasn't.

[B]

Well, you missed, remember, because immunotherapy was something to expect every three weeks for the rest of my life.

[A]

Right. Not. Yeah, never stop.

[B]

It was never to stop. And it sort of worked for that period of time. You had to go back for another shot, which is what was no big deal. That was fine to do that. But then all of a sudden, my tumor was getting smaller and smaller and smaller until they really can't see it very much. Or, you know, there's the mention a node. It's the same as before, whatever that means. Right. But. But I was one of the first people that they actually stopped the immunotherapy because they Thought I. And I won't say remission, I won't say cure. They thought it was controlled well enough not to do it anymore. And.

[A]

And that's what they said. Stopped every three months.

[B]

Yeah. And now every three months I still have to check up six.

[A]

Now it's every four months.

[B]

Now they've moved it to four months.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think probably she would have moved it to more than that, but she could, she could hear the tenseness in my voice when they were going to back off a little bit. Because she get pretty dependent on going in there every three months and getting.

[A]

All you done getting it checked.

[B]

Although it's a hard week. But other than that it gives you the rest of that time. Right.

[A]

But I think anyway, but I think all of that, I mean it's funny because really before that our family hasn't really experienced. Will never really experience cancer and never really gone through, you know, Grandpa passed when I was younger, but we'd never gone through significant angry grandma was. Lasted till 97. Smoking every day, drinking coffee and eating straight up sugar.

[B]

So we were. What did they call her? She. There was.

[A]

She had Superior genetics.

[B]

Yeah. Superior genetics.

[A]

We call her Wolverine.

[B]

So we, we all thought we had it.

[A]

Yeah. Until I got sick. Yeah.

[B]

We all thought.

[A]

I think maybe I got it. I think you got skip a generation. Well, but maybe it's got to do.

[B]

With talking so much.

[A]

Gotta get it out. But it's interesting because I think it has a lot to do with stress. A lot of people talk about how stress impacts. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you've always been, let's be honest, a little bit of a worrier. I actually think. Isn't that so weird you going through this has minimized how you worry about things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And could try to control other things you don't do.

[B]

I'm not as controlling as I was.

[A]

No.

[B]

In anything.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because you, you, well, you have to.

[A]

Let go of it. But I think you also realize all of that control was actually useless anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was always like, well, I could never control everything I was doing anyways.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So all of this being said, I sort of skipped to, you know, being a teacher. And there were lessons that you taught me from this that I think are. That I didn't even know I learned. Number one, I never make a kid read out loud. Never 23 years have I ever asked a kid to read out loud. Now what I do make them do.

[B]

Sometimes is answer a question.

[A]

They do have to answer a question. But I think Your problem wasn't that you didn't want to read out loud. It wasn't that you didn't want to answer the question is you thought you weren't smart enough, good enough, capable enough, enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think I, instead of just like abdicating and say, oh, you never have to read out loud or you never have to, I sort of err on the side of like gassing them up, like making, making them feel a level of confidence and empowerment in whatever so that they'll answer a question so that they will give it a go so that if they read and they stink at it.

[B]

Oh, well, you learn that early too. And you taught yourself that. Joanne, I don't know where you, where you get it. The apple orchard.

[A]

Well, that's be. But that, but that was my it, that was a level of confidence. You can tell that story, but that was a level of confidence that it. I got that from you. I didn't have that. I got that from you. I got that from a mom who said a 2 year old gets to have an opinion when grandma would say who do you think the mother is here? Right.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's where I got that.

[B]

Well, I guess she did get it from the fact that yeah.

[A]

You don't just, you're not felt at.

[B]

Any, any age that it was important what you had to say that you.

[A]

Can tell the apple orchard story. I didn't put that in the book. What happened?

[B]

It was very cute because Joanna used to want me to go to school to meet her teachers. Always. I never missed a parent night or an, or any, or, or any kind of outing. I, I, I was a nurse so I could change my schedules around a bit so I, so I could do that. But one time, the, one of the first times and you were in regular school so you had to be in grade one or two because it was in, it was in Markham and we went to the apple orchard and, and there I found this little girl who had her hand up all the time. She wanted to answer every single question. And the interesting part is she didn't even, she wanted to answer it even if she didn't know I didn't know.

[A]

Any answers, did I?

[B]

Like she put her, and it wouldn't be just to put your hand up and be me. Pick me, pick me. Right? And oh yeah, you would answer some of them. I mean obviously the teacher knew you. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So she wouldn't ask you, you know, she'd try and get some other people involved because it would, it could have been a just a one armed show, and you'd have some answers. But then it started where I noticed you put your hand up the same way. And when the teacher asked you, okay, what is, you know, what's the answer? You'd go, I don't know. And that was all you wanted. But you wanted to be heard. You wanted people to know that you didn't know or you did know. It did not matter.

[A]

I just wanted to be called a.

[B]

On, well, even. Okay, so even. And it was around the same time we had the big sex talk at home because you and your two girlfriends were. Were playing Barbies.

[A]

Just. Yes. And they came over there, they wanted to. They made a joke to me, and they said, you know, you don't know. You don't know what sex is or whatever. And then I said, well, fine, I don't know. But I stomped home and asked mom. And then mom had to give a call to all their parents and say, listen, my daughter's asked this question. I'm going to answer it. Do you want me to send your kids home? And these other parents are like, no, no, you're the nurse. Please go ahead and give the talk. There was never a sense of embarrassment. No, I've never felt a sense of embarrassment asking you a question or trepidation asking a question. But again, that has to be something. I don't. Do you think it was because, like, you were embarrassed to ask questions? You just wanted to make sure that I never. Do you think it was conscious? Do you, like, you know what I mean? Like, I. You brought me into. You know, I was always in. I was an only child, so I was. I was the only kid in the family. Well, for a long time and almost till I was like 9 years old. So growing up, I just always had the ear of a full room of adults.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

No matter where I went. Right. So it was never. I was never playing with other kids. I mean, my friends. But for the most part, I sat at the adult. There was no kids table.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Metaphorically or literally.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So. And I always felt like you always made it seem like I got to have a say and my say had value.

[B]

Well. And I thought it did.

[A]

Well. But that's the difference. That's the difference.

[B]

Everything.

[A]

If I'm wrong or not, it doesn't matter. I just now have a big mouth.

[B]

Yeah. No, Yeah. I started letting you have. Letting you have an opinion. You always had an opinion, I think. But listening to your opinion over. I'm sort of skipping back over cleaning. Oh, not cleaning, disciplining.

[A]

Because I. Oh, this is a great strategy, by the way. I use this strategy. I use this strategy just last week. Go ahead, tell the story. Because, because it's funny again. I, it's, it's about how I take what you've done and I just applying it to all these other children. Go ahead.

[B]

Well, you. Yeah, because I, I was a single parent, so I didn't have someone else. And this is what I. Probably the only thing I did miss, having two parents to bad ideas off of me to really talk about how what you should be doing about punishing for certain things. So it was always me. Well, it wasn't totally. I wasn't always reasonable because it would be, go away and I'll talk to you later. And if it wasn't that, it would be okay. So you go in your room. You don't look at any toy in there. Heaven forbid. You don't read. You don't put a TV on, although you didn't have a TV in my room. You don't do anything. But you go in that room and you think about stuff. And you, by the way, you're not playing with your friends for two weeks and you're not going out.

[A]

That never lasted. I don't ever remember you not letting.

[B]

Me because it's a silly thing. Right. So. So I'd send you off and then it started. I started to realize, well, I'm not going to do any of that. I sound like her crazy woman telling you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'd call you back and, and I would say that. And this is something that I, I think I taught you, or I hope I did, is that I admitted I was wrong to my child. So, so it's kind of nice that if, if your child understands that they can admit that and it's not the end of the world. Yeah, but, but I would say, you know, like, that was a little crazy because I was upset, but we, you did do something wrong there, so we need to fix it so it's not going to be happening again. And so we sat and we sort of talked a little bit. And I go, what do you, what do you think you should run. Your punishment should be? And she said, I can vacuum. Well, that was the best.

[A]

That's the worst thing I've ever said, guys. I spent my whole life a vacuum.

[B]

And what I, what I thought was awesome.

[A]

I might have been four or five years old.

[B]

It didn't matter. And I would never go over, by.

[A]

The way, a vacuum in 1980 weighed 417 pounds, just so we know.

[B]

And, and you would.

[A]

On a shag carpet nonetheless.

[B]

And I would say to you, okay, I've hidden four pennies on the floor. I want you. You finished your work when those four pennies. You found the pennies. Because there are in situations, punishment nowadays, I think, I think that's still a good punishment. Yeah. Anyway, and she'd give me the pennies and it was not long ago, and, and, and that's from then on. Joanna got. Got to. To clean for. For punishment, which until she was really older. But I, I didn't ever believe you had to not play with your friends because when you're a kid, that's when you're supposed to play with your friends, for crying out loud. You know, like, why would I punish you? And punish me? Yeah, yeah, you know, like, it's stupidness.

[A]

Like, this is one of the most brilliant things that I've tried to. And, and very recently, funnily enough, tried with a student. So last week you didn't tell me. Yeah, it's. It's funny because I. She was so baffled last week. You know, I'm not gonna talk about who it was, but, you know, a student stepped out of line a little bit, made some. A couple bad choices, and she knew I was upset, so she came to me and you know, she's like, well, obviously I'm gonna have detention or I can't go for whatever. Whatever. She thought my punishment. I said, you know what? I go, you know how upset I am and, and how disappointed, you know. I said, you know how upset I am. And she, she said, I know you're disappointed, which is like. It's like arrow to their tiny little hearts. But I said, I go. She goes, well, what. What's my punishment? And I said, I don't know. She's like, what do you mean you don't know? I go, I want you to know this is serious. I want you to know this has weight. So what I want you. I'm not going to give you a punishment right now. I want you to go home tonight and I want you to think about what it should be her face. She was like, I can't just know now. I just want to know now. She's like, I'll give you my phone. I'll do this. I won't go to lunch. I'm like, your punishment's not. Not eating. That doesn't make any sense. And she's going on. And I said, no, no, I want you to think about it. And I want you to show up in my office tomorrow morning, tell me what you came, the conclusions you came. And she was out of her mind. First thing in the morning, she came to me. She was dead serious. We discussed. And to be honest, I didn't even need to give her a punishment by that point because she spent the last 12 hours punishing yourself, thinking about it and contemplating it and understanding it. And I'm like. And she came and she had. You can tell when kids give a crap, right? When they, when they really are sorry and they get it and. And otherwise, when they're just saying sorry because they want to move on. Right? And she go, after having the conversation in the morning, she's like, so, you know, what's my. Oh. She said consequence. Because I kept trying to reinforce the fact that punishment's weird. Consequence means that there's. You do something that's out of pocket. You have. There's. There has to be a related consequence. It can't be like, you know, you skip class and I take away your lunch. That doesn't make any sense. There's no, there's no connect. And she. We had a very, like a half hour conversation. And at the end of it, she goes, okay, so, you know, I came up with some. She came up with some decent consequences kind of thing. And. And she goes, which one are you going to choose? And I said, none of them. She goes, what do you mean? I said, well, you spent the last 12 hours really thinking about what. What happened, that you made a mistake and you know it. That was it. And she, you know, it was one of those. And I. That's brand new. I don't know. Historically, I don't think I've been that great with that because you get. So you get another thing you told me, always never put a kid in a position to lie. I hate it when kids lie to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hate it. And I'll say to them, listen, don't do an assignment. Okay? There'll be a consequence. But if you lie about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just. It breaks everything. But having a space where kids don't lie, but there's still consequence. That's. If you can do that as a parent or as a teacher, I think that's the best thing you possibly can do.

[B]

I got that from Grandpa. Right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That was the one thing I remember.

[A]

He.

[B]

He just. Don't ever put your child in a position to lie because they will.

[A]

To stuff, to. To protect themselves, to get. Avoid getting in trouble. Right. So anytime.

[B]

And it makes it worse.

[A]

I have done that with students. So anytime I know they've done something wrong, I don't ask them if they've done it. They're going to say no. I say, it's grandpa's hat. It is grandpa's hat. I say, I know you've done it. I know this has happened. Let's not waste time back and forth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's just carry on with what happens next. It works better with some kids than others. Some kids will still want to deny it happens, but, you know, for the most part, they. They usually go, okay, they. And they know that's how I'm gonna lead. Right. But consequence is hard. Consequence and follow through is very, very, very hard. You're lucky you had such a good kid. I know you need any consequence.

[B]

How I knew if you. You were almost gonna lie at the time. One time you had they not free. Yes. Freezies are the ones that are in the plastic bag, right? Yeah. I was doing something then came out and you were playing with your friends, and you had about eight people in the front lawn jump running all around. And there were. There were freezy packages on the ground. And.

[A]

Because I went into the fridge and got them.

[B]

Ah. And so in. Instead of saying. Instead of saying, where did they come.

[A]

Yeah, put me in this spot. Where did they come from? I don't know. Some guy in a truck just dropped off a bunch of freezes.

[B]

It was. It was. Joanna, look at all these freezies. And you didn't have to feed the whole street.

[A]

Well, that seemed nice, though. I don't know about that.

[B]

That's fine. So I suggest that you, not your friends, pick up every one of those packages and you put them in the garbage. That. That was as simple as that. And that was the first time. Yeah. More cleaning. That was the first time that I. That I thought that it could have gone wrong. If I'd have said to you, where did these things come from? I don't know. It would be like that cartoon.

[A]

I kind of want to know what the lie would have been.

[B]

Well, I don't know. It would have been an. I don't know. I didn't do it. You remember that little cartoon that it was. I didn't.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Family something or other. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

[A]

To. To end this. I do want to talk about one parenting drop that. That you made. But it is funny story to tell at the end. Look, I grew up in the 70s, early 80s. Parents didn't know where we. You didn't know where we Were. We were out of the house. Like, we could walk up to the little park, right? We. We were out of sight. It wasn't like, play in the backyard. I don't. We played in the front yard. We rode our bikes places, right? And this one time, so my friend and I, Greg, we were outside and we're playing and we come back in the house and I tell my mom that I'm going to be on tv. Now, guys, I'm wondering if this was always my. My desire was to always be on tv. I love tv. We always had the TV on, you know, whatever. Anyways, I come in and I said, I'm gonna be on tv. Mom goes, what are you talking about? There was a news truck, I said, out front of the house. And they invited us in their truck, their white panel van with all of this, like, in my memory, like, technological stuff in it. And the two men that were driving this truck invited Greg and I into the truck and I guess pretended to film us at some point. I don't remember that. But we got in their truck. We were fully in the back. Two kids of a panel van truck. And I went in and I told mom all about this. And my mom then proceeded to call, like, all of these different news agencies to find out if they had a truck in our vicinity. None of them did. So to this day, I mean, that could have been a really interesting end, I think.

[B]

I think we did.

[A]

I think it might have been. Was it like a Roger, Like a cable truck?

[B]

A cable or an electrical thing? Because I think that's what someone eventually did say there's one of these kind of trucks in your area, like somebody that you called. Yeah, yeah. But it was. It wasn't that day. It would. Would have been later. You know what I mean, guys?

[A]

That was. That would have been it in 1980. But it was scary way after the fact. But nobody watched their kids.

[B]

Joanna, the times that I. We'd go shopping and I couldn't find you because you were in the shoe store. Like, I would go, I would look for you.

[A]

And I thought she knew where to go.

[B]

But yeah. And it was always a shoe.

[A]

See, there you go. But at least I'm consistent.

[B]

But how I did that, like, I. Anything could have happened to you. But we did. We did not even think about it. And the park business, you.

[A]

Before we left park was far before I could go to the big park. That was at seven. That was down a major street.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So the big park. Yeah, big park in Little Park. I should Go and take some video.

[B]

And you used to be able to. You had just started, so you were 7 years old, and you must have just been 7, because we moved before you got to be 8. So your birthday's in July, right? And. Oh, no. Well, no, it could have been the beginning. Whatever. Anyway, we were also allowed to go to the store behind us. By yourself? That was a brand new, brand great convenience store.

[A]

Guys, listen, the convenience. And we used to hop the fence. One time, I tried to hop that fence in my bare feet. Slid all the way down and got slivers all in my hands and my bare feet, and Ray had to take them out. But I'm gonna have Ray on the podcast, so you're gonna. You're gonna get to talk to him about that. Can you give the people one. Your best piece of parenting advice? One thing. If you had to say one thing to parents, somebody's gonna have kids, what would be the one thing you would say? Listen, everything else you're gonna decide, but this. If you could do this one thing, what would it be?

[B]

Make them know that they are loved. That's it, you know? Yeah. They are loved. And they're. For they. They come first.

[A]

And on that note, guys, thank you so much. Look at this. Long time coming. You've been talking for 53 minutes. Was it okay? It was fun.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

Maybe part two later, if they like it.

[B]

You don't need to be crazy.

[A]

All right, guys, thank you so much for hanging out. Go check the rest of my podcast as they relate to each chapter on my book. Thanks for hanging out. I will see you next week. Same bat time, same bat. Channel dismissed.