Encore: Todd & Julie Come Home!

Summary

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Unlocked with Savannah Chrisley

Episode: Encore: Todd & Julie Come Home!
Date: April 28, 2026
Host: Savannah Chrisley
Guests: Todd Chrisley (Dad), Julie Chrisley (Mom)

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Episode Overview

This highly anticipated episode marks the return of Todd and Julie Chrisley to "Unlocked," as they join Savannah just three weeks after being released from prison. The episode provides an intimate, unfiltered look at the Chrisley family’s experience with the federal prison system—from the emotional day of surrender, through harrowing experiences of confinement and transport, to the challenges, injustices, and personal growth that have marked their journey.

The family openly discusses how they navigated incarceration, maintained hope, endured subpar conditions, and gained a new level of activism regarding criminal justice reform. Listeners get to hear the untold, raw details behind headlines, as well as the Chrisleys' reflections, family dynamics, and future advocacy plans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Returning Home and Adjusting

[01:01 – 02:29]

• Savannah warmly welcomes Todd and Julie, acknowledging the strangeness and excitement of being back on the podcast.
• Todd humorously reflects:

  "I feel like I did 1 for 28 months with all the people that was around me."

• The family laughs over Todd’s prison nickname, “Teflon Todd,” and joke about how Todd managed to “run things” in prison.

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2. The Day of Surrender

[03:02 – 06:53]

• Both Todd and Julie retrace the emotionally charged day they reported to prison, recalling the numbness, shock, and brevity of their goodbyes.
• Julie admits she didn’t fully grasp that she wouldn’t see or speak to her family for years, until later.
• Todd reveals he kept fear at bay through faith and prayer but broke down the first night, describing a profound dream that later informed his advocacy:

  “I was so angry with God... I lay there and I cried... In my dream, God came to me and said, I have planted you where I need you, and when you leave, they will rise... Well, I have left. And now the place is closing... I now know exactly what the dream meant, because they are rising.” [05:10 – 06:53]

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3. First Moments Inside & Unique Experiences

[06:53 – 11:17]

• Julie shares the anxiety of entering a harsher prison environment, involving camps adjacent to higher-security prisons, razor wire, and intimidating intake procedures.
• Memorable Story: The woman driving Julie’s intake van was herself serving a 25-year sentence, and candidly warned, "You're gonna hate it. It's a piece of crap." [09:07]
• Julie was immediately recognized and overwhelmed by attention from other inmates.
• Todd, by contrast, describes a "busted, broke little summer camp," joking about refusing to work and instead spending time in the chapel (“I prayed for their demise. That’s the only work I did.” [11:25]).

Notable quote (humor):

"You can’t have me for a honey bun. I mean, that you just can't do. Now, later on, a good pair of Nikes, we could have talked." – Todd [13:03]

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4. Making Friends and “Prison Politics”

[14:43 – 19:01]

• Todd recounts meeting "Jig," a muscular fellow inmate directed to help him, who became a close friend.
• Minor prison incidents are told with humor and bravado, including a story about a fight over a debt (“That was my little fat Samoan friend, he ran out of his shoe because he was chasing that guy... I don’t consider it that bad.” [16:12])
• Defending Family Honor:
  • Todd, fiercely protective when Savannah was spoken about disrespectfully by "the college admissions scandal guy," issued a notorious threat:

    “I will rip your head off and shit down your neck if you talk about my child again.” [18:41]

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5. Gender Differences & Conditions in Prison

[22:06 – 24:58]

• Julie’s incarceration was far harsher physically: old buildings, no air conditioning, 110–120°F in summer, freezing in winter. [22:53]
• Todd describes using monitored payphones (“the Biden phone”) to force repairs by threatening media exposure.
• Julie didn’t have that leverage and highlights the inhumane HVAC conditions, fire codes violated by windows being screwed shut—exposing neglect in prison facilities.

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6. The Reality of Federal Inmate Transport (“Diesel Therapy” & Con Air)

[25:38 – 31:34]

• Julie recounts terrifying transport experiences: intense shackling, mixed company of mostly male prisoners, unpredictable routes, and long stints in bleak, freezing or chaotic holding facilities.
• At Lovejoy, a holding cell adjacent to violent male inmates left Julie traumatized:

  "Literally I'm hearing this guard say... 'I thought you were carving a turkey with that one,' literally where he had cut somebody up." [30:39]

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7. Resentencing, Judicial Injustice & Legal Challenges

[31:50 – 39:00]

• The family critiques the handling of their resentencing, focusing on Judge Eleanor Ross’s alleged bias, lack of financial expertise, and the widespread overturning of her rulings.
• On the performative nature of court appearances:
  • Julie explains that, under legal advice, she was pressured to appear remorseful and take responsibility at resentencing for strategic reasons—not out of true admission of guilt:

    “It was absolutely something different... Your hand is forced for you to say these things to the judge, because if you don’t, they use anything they can to not give you any more time off.” [36:48]

• The immense pressure on federal defendants to plea, and the system’s 97.3% conviction rate, are sharply criticized:

  "The success rate is so high because people plead out... The fear of the unknown is why they do it. But if you’ll remember, they came to us in the beginning... we said, we’re not admitting to something we didn’t do." – [38:25]

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8. Jury System Flaws & Final Reflections on Justice

[39:07 – 44:58]

• The Chrisleys lament that their case, like many, was lost not on facts but on a lay jury’s inability to grasp complex financial details:
  • “How is an 18-year-old pregnant college student gonna understand bank fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy? They’re not.” – Savannah [41:41]
• The family also stresses prevalent misconceptions—they were not sentenced for tax evasion; in fact, the IRS had owed them a refund.
• Systemic issues with “expert” testimony and overzealous government officials are called out, citing personal impacts and broader injustice: “It’s very targeted... All they want to do is make a name for themselves.” – Savannah [45:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Strength and Faith in Prison:

  “I was in prison. Prison was not in me.” – Todd [02:11]

• Protective Fathering:

  “If my daughter’s name comes out of your mouth again, I will rip your head off and shit down your neck.” – Todd [18:41]

• On Flawed Legal Strategy:

  “Your hand is forced... because if you don’t, they use anything they can to not give you any more time off.” – Julie [36:48]

• On Systemic Injustice:

  “That right there is literally should be something that should be thrown out.” – Todd, regarding sentencing enhancements for non-admission of guilt [39:00]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Welcome and Return Home: [01:01 – 02:29]
• The Day They Surrendered: [03:02 – 06:53]
• First Days in Prison (Mom vs. Dad): [06:53 – 11:17]
• Making Friends (Jig’s Story): [14:43 – 16:47]
• Defending Savannah in Prison: [17:00 – 19:01]
• Prison Conditions (Heat/Air): [22:06 – 24:58]
• Transport (Diesel Therapy/Con Air): [25:38 – 31:34]
• Resentencing & Judicial Criticisms: [31:50 – 39:00]
• Jury System & Systemic Injustice: [39:07 – 44:58]
• Final Thoughts on Systemic Targeting: [45:03 – end]

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Final Reflections

The episode stands out for its unvarnished look at life inside and after prison for a high-profile American family. It candidly exposes the psychological toll of incarceration, the flaws of the justice system, failures of the prison-industrial complex, and the profound strength drawn from family and faith.

Listeners gain both personal anecdotes (some humorous, many moving) and a powerful critique of American justice, especially as it affects women and public figures. The Chrisleys emerge passionate about telling their own story and using their platform for advocacy and reform.

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Transcript

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[Interviewer (Host)]

Welcome back to this week's episode of Unlocked. I am very excited for this episode, and I know you guys will be as well. I have mom and dad on.

[Mom]

Hi.

[Dad]

Thank you so much.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Is it weird being back to doing a podcast?

[Mom]

Yes, it is. But I'm super excited.

[Dad]

I feel like I did1 for 28 months with all the people that was around me.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, because you. You ran that up in there.

[Dad]

I did. I did. They called me Teflon Todd.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Y' all got out May 28th.

[Mom]

Yes, that.

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How long ago was that?

[Mom]

Three weeks ago today.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Three weeks ago today? Does it feel like it's been three weeks?

[Dad]

I don't. I mean, I think that your perception of things and mine is different.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Totally different.

[Dad]

So, I mean, put it well.

[Mom]

Certain times, it feels like it's been a long time, and then certain times, it feels like it just happened.

[Dad]

I think for me, I was always free. In my head, I was still free. I was.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Just because you lived at the Ritz and the Caymans, really, the whole time in your head?

[Dad]

I did not. I did not take up residence there. I mean, I was in prison. Prison was not in me. And I made great friends there. And I knew. I stayed in my faith, I prayed, I read my Bible, I worked out, I walked and. And I wreaked havoc on anyone that was mistreating somebody else.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, we know. And I was an accomplice in wreaking havoc.

[Dad]

You were. I could not. Listen, this is the truth. I could not have closed Pensacola without you. You was instrumental in that. I mean, the warden there, just so she knows, you were my accomplice the entire time. But I mean, she knew that because of the press.

[Mom]

Well, yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[Dad]

Right. But, you know, she was trying to figure out how. How is he getting this information to Savannah? How's he getting this information to Savannah, Your staff.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Exactly. And other family members.

[Dad]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So before you go too much into prison, go back to y' all being dropped off.

[Mom]

Being dropped off?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes. Being dropped off at prison. I'll let mom go first. What was that day like? Explain to people.

[Mom]

That day was just. It started really, really early because you and your dad left around 2:00am because you had to go to Florida. Because we had to self surrender on the same day.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What was? Me, dad, Grayson and Nick all went. Yes, yes.

[Mom]

And then for me, it was Chase. No Chase. Mom, dad went with me.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yep. And Chad.

[Mom]

And Chad. Yes. So we kind of split up. So, you know, I got ready that morning, we got in the car, we left. I've said many times, looking back, I don't think it hit me that we were leaving and going to not see each other, speak to each other for years, potentially. Well, it was years.

[Dad]

Yeah, it was years. 28 months.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, no, we say that y' all just got up and left that morning like you were coming home that night.

[Mom]

We did. We did.

[Dad]

And I think that there was. There was some of that mentality because I don't know that the shock. The shock. We were still in shock.

[Mom]

Right.

[Dad]

And so I think that for me, I had you and Grayson and Nick. And, you know, on that drive down there, we hardly ever spoke. I mean, we didn't talk. And Grayson fell asleep on my shoulder. And I just remember because I had said to you like a week before, because you said, are you afraid? And I said, no. I said, God has. God has taken that from me. And I'm so grateful for that because when I got out with my Bible, I didn't have any fear.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I will never forget you. As we pull up, you said, y' all don't get out. We're going to say our goodbyes. I'm not hugging y' all goodbye.

[Dad]

Right? Yeah. Because it was never goodbye for me. It was always see you later. And I knew I was going to see you later. The hard part of that day, it didn't set in with me until that evening that I realized that I wasn't going to see you again. It was going. I was going to see our kids. I was going to see my mom, but I would not be seeing you. So that was hard that first night. And I was so angry with God. And I remember when the lights went out, I lay there and I cried and I said, God, why have you forsaken me? What did I do in my life that warrants this? You know these things are not true. But yet you allowed it to happen. And I went to sleep. And in my dream, God came to me and said, I have planted you where I need you, and when you leave, they will rise. And you. And I talked to you about that. I never understood it. Now I understand it. With the movement that we have going on with the prisons and stuff, I now understand what that dream meant. Because when I leave, they will rise. Well, I have left. And now the place is closing. Now the new memo has come out that there's going to expand home confinement that these men are going to through a new great director, Billy Marshall and Josh Smith, the deputy director. Those have now come out making sure that President Trump's initial initiative, First Step act in 2018, that those men and women will now get those credits and they will be reunited with their families. So I now know exactly what the dream meant, because they are rising.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And so for you, Mom. Cause see, I wasn't there when you got dropped off. So what was.

[Mom]

Right, I. Yeah. Was I scared? Absolutely. I was scared of the unknown because I didn't know what it was gonna be like, you know, I didn't know. And where I am, which was different than where dad was, was very different.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Different.

[Mom]

I was an extension of a real prison.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And when she says real, she means within the Bureau of Prisons there is. They've got supermax max, mediums, lows and camps.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So that was a medium.

[Mom]

No, I was a satellite camp off of a federal medical center, which was. Which housed all custody levels. So there was, you know, the, the fence and the razor wire and, you know, the security there. Now, where I, I was in particular, there wasn't, but it was right next door to it, so. But the receiving, where you had to be received. I had to go into that part of the prison. Yeah, yeah. So I think that was different than where you were.

[Dad]

I didn't. As I've.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yours is scary. Yours is scary, his is not.

[Dad]

Yeah. Cuz mine was just like a busted, broke little summer camp.

[Mom]

Yeah. I mean, it was. So I was scared just because I didn't know what to expect.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And then when you had to go through that process of them putting you in the system, you Came out and there was a van waiting to take you.

[Mom]

Yes. So I came out and there was a white van waiting to take me.

[Interviewer (Host)]

We laugh because tell. Tell them who's driving them.

[Mom]

Okay, so there were two women in the van. Now, keep in mind, I didn't know these women. I got to know these women later, you know? So the lady driving the van was doing a 25 year prison sentence. And so when I went to prison, she had already been in over. Been in prison over 20 years. So she was driving.

[Interviewer (Host)]

How was she?

[Dad]

How's she there for 20 years? For. Since was 25?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Mom]

Well, because she didn't get FSA and she had lost a lot of good time.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Oh. So she was thugging it up while she was there.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So we talked about her friend.

[Dad]

I ain't talking about her friends, because I got thugs too.

[Mom]

She now has. She has a book. She has several books out. But we'll talk about that later. I remember it very vividly. I got in the van, and they knew. They knew I was coming. Word had gotten around, so they knew I was coming. And I get in the van, and I'm just sitting there. They're like, the one girl, she says, I'm just gonna let you know you're gonna hate it. It's a piece of crap. It's hot, it's cold. You're gonna hate it. It's horrible. I was like, okay, okay, okay. And I walked in the door, and then I was just, like, bombarded. So I walk in the door, There was someone there to show me where to go. Ended, ended up. I didn't know at the time, but a girl got me to the room, got me a bed, a nice bed, actually. She ended up being my bunky later on, like two years later. But it was very overwhelming because people kept coming in and, you know, because I was new and people knew who I was. So it was really overwhelming for the first few days for me.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But the best part is these women driving these vans. I was going in one day to visitation, and this woman driving the van is barreling down on the road.

[Dad]

I'd have thought that was your mom.

[Interviewer (Host)]

She ran the stop sign, and I'm like, you could have.

[Mom]

I don't think it was the same one, but it was.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But still, this is a woman in custody that driving this van and just barreling down, and you just see her in there. And I'm like, you probably should not be driving.

[Mom]

Oh, yeah, we drove. There were vehicles all over the place. Yeah, that was gators.

[Dad]

I didn't do any of that. I did not work. I did not give them any labor. I did. I.

[Mom]

You were.

[Interviewer (Host)]

No, you were in the chapel.

[Dad]

Yeah, but I prayed for their demise. That's the only work I did.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, but there also was somebody that said that you really didn't have a job in the chapel. You remember that?

[Dad]

That was that person that had that little Instagram account that said that I didn't work in the chapel. Well, you know, you shouldn't be lying on God's helpers. You can't be doing that. When you start messing with God's chosen children, he will strike you down. I was in the chapel the entire. When I got there, I did my processing, which took literally five minutes. And they said, we'll walk you up to laundry. So, I mean, they walked me up to laundry and I remember seeing those ugly ass green uniforms and I remember saying, I said, is this the only one color? And the guy laughed and he said, yeah, it's all one color. I said, mm, okay. So he gives me my uniforms and I'm walking back and I get to my room and I have all this stuff laying on my bed, like a shaving kit with all my stuff that I would use and tennis shoes and new sweats and stuff. And I'm like, because I had read that you're gonna be taking nothing for free. Cause then you gotta give something up. And I'm too old to be fighting all these people off. And so I started looking at it and I'm like, well, someone's already here. And they said, no, that showers. They said, jig will be over to see in a little bit. I said, who? They said, jig? And I said, what is that? And he said, that's his name. I said, his name is Jig? And he said, yeah. I said, okay. So I just still moved it and put it in a chair.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, sure. I'm not taking this.

[Dad]

Yeah, because I mean, you can't have me for a honey bun. I mean, that you just can't do. Now, later on a good pair of Nikes, we could have talked.

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[Dad]

but you know, I get my bed made up and all that stuff. And then all of a sudden this guy comes walking. He's about 5ft tall and muscles everywhere. And he goes, you got your stuff? And I said, you must be Jig. He said, one and only. And I said, he said, word had been sent to me, he said, to make sure you had everything that you needed. And I said, should I ask who sent word to you? He said, well, you know, we'll just leave it as a good Samaritan. And I said, okay. I said, well, I can pay you for this. He said, no, you can't, he says, because I'm to look out for you. And I said, well, I can take care of myself. He said, I don't have no doubt, he said, but I still got to do what I got to do. So from that point forward, Jig and I became like best buddies. And finally after about seven months of being there, he tells me who had told him to do that. And I said, you've got to be kidding me. So then, you know, you start hearing people's stories and stuff. Yeah, I was, I, I just, I made a great friend in jig and jig, you know, was always. There was no reason to look out for me because nothing went on there. I told you, it's a bad busted summer camp. Yeah, yeah. So we didn't have any. There was no fights. There was no dating.

[Interviewer (Host)]

There's a lot. There was a fight.

[Dad]

Which one?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Remember the one where he was running down the sidewalk with one shoe on and.

[Dad]

Oh, that wasn't really a fight. That was my stabbing. Oh, it Was. That's overrated. He was my little fat Samoan friend, and he ran out of his shoe because he was chasing that guy. Cause that guy owed him money for a bed. So that's not really like violence. I mean, that's just, pay me my money before I beat the shit out of you. And, I mean, I'd do that out in the streets. I mean, I don't consider it that bad. But we didn't have really a lot of that. And, you know, you and I have talked about that, and we didn't have. Guys, they didn't argue. We just didn't.

[Mom]

I know we had lots of arguments.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Daddy.

[Mom]

Women.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Daddy almost got sent to county one time.

[Dad]

Well, when I jumped on that guy about you.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes. So that was a thing that people don't realize.

[Dad]

A snitch told on Lori Laughlin.

[Interviewer (Host)]

College admissions guy. Yeah, the college admissions scandal guy was there at Dad's place. And what was it that happened?

[Dad]

He was. He was talking. He was talking smack. Saying that, you know, he didn't wear a wire. He never told on anyone. You know, the Fed set him up. This, that and the other. Well, you and I both know, because we know that whole deal personal, personally, because of Felicity and him. So. And we'd watched it all, so we knew what had happened. So he starts talking, and then he said something about. He said something about Savannah when he

[Interviewer (Host)]

was all up in your space and he was trying to, like, ask questions and all this stuff. And dad made a comment or something to him, like, are you trying to write another book? Because I'm not going to be a chapter in it, so get the hell out.

[Dad]

And so when he came and asked me, he said, have you started your book? And I said, no. He said, I've started working on mine. And I said, well, I hope that the first chapter introduces you as the biggest snitch in America. And I said, so you and I. And I told them about Felicity and Bell and Lori and them. And I said, I don't want to ever have another conversation with you. And so he turned around, walked out. So months later, he was talking shit about Savannah, because that's when she had already started, you know, pulling the Barbara Walters and exposing everything in the BoP. And so he started talking smack. And so I just walked up to him and I said, I'm going to say this one more time. I'm already in prison.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He was not this calm because guys told me at visitation that I'm pretty sure dad said he would shit down his neck.

[Dad]

I said, I will rip your head off and shit down your neck if you talk about my child again. And I meant what I said, and you know, I would have done that. And he was like, I'm not. I said, I don't need you to be afraid of me. Just be aware that if my daughter's name comes out of your mouth again, I will rip your head off and shit down your neck.

[Mom]

Oh, okay.

[Dad]

So he literally. We never had another problem with him. I never had another problem with him. But that's really the only issue that I had. I mean, I told staff off. I mean, I told cos and staff.

[Mom]

I didn't have that.

[Dad]

No, because you was up there being Ms. Pollyanna. Yes, ma'. Am. Yes, ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. Because I will never forget the very beginning you called me and you were all to pieces because that one asshole CO that walks around with those glasses on, he looks like kind of like a old Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Dad]

Well, there's a lot of those.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He locked her in the cafeteria.

[Mom]

Oh, yeah. He was a food service. Yeah, he's.

[Dad]

But here's the thing. But here's the thing. Only your mother would get locked in a cafeteria. Nobody else does dumb shit like that. I never even went in our cafeteria.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He didn't, because he was pissed off at her. He did it on purpose.

[Dad]

And I would have put a BP 8 on his back.

[Mom]

He was just a miserable human being.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He really was.

[Dad]

They all are. I was surrounded by miserable human beings. And every day I got up and it was my sole intent to make their life even more miserable because they were there to make our lives miserable. And that's when I never understood. Because you had a handful of guys there that thought that they, you know, that they would buddy up to the staff.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And they'd go telling everyone else.

[Mom]

We had a few of those.

[Dad]

And I would say to them, I'd say, what in your mind makes you think that they're your friends, right? It is us against them.

[Mom]

They are not your friends.

[Dad]

No, it's us against them.

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[Interviewer (Host)]

So Yalls, prison experiences were definitely very different. Yes, yours was harsher than what yours was. If we're.

[Good Girl Rx Ad Voice]

I think.

[Dad]

I think that's the way that it is for women in general.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes, that's the way that it is for women in general. But also throughout the whole appeal process, mom had to go through things that you never had to.

[Dad]

Right.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Such as the diesel therapy, the con air, the. Right.

[Mom]

Well, I think it goes back to just how our prison sentences were different. I was in a building that was 100 years old that had no air conditioning. It had a radiator heat. So it was cold at times in the winter, and it was really, really hot in the summertime.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, I can't even imagine. Because you remember during the summer to when the air conditioning was even out in the visitation room.

[Mom]

Yeah, yeah. And so.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And that was on the very bottom, like basement.

[Mom]

So there was a basement and then there was a first, second, and third floor. At times during the summer, the temperature on the third floor would be somewhere between 110 and 120 degrees. Yeah.

[Dad]

Say I would have been raised in mortal hell.

[Mom]

So for that, it was much different and harsher than where your dad was. But, you know, everything was very old.

[Dad]

But, you know, we had. We went without air conditioning there for about a week.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. And I.

[Dad]

And you. And I called Savannah on the phone because I knew that they was listening on the. On the Biden phone up there. Because every time you used a pay phone, that's what we called to Biden phone. I would go up there because I knew there was eavesdropping. So I'd go up and I'd tell them everything that I wanted them to hear. I tell Savannah. And literally when I told them, I said, I Want you to report to the press. I says that they're housing these men in here in 100 degree weather. I says there's no air, et cetera, et cetera. The next day they had the company out there and they installed two brand new units.

[Mom]

So we didn't. We didn't have that. We didn't have that option to even get repaired because we didn't have it to begin with.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. So there was a point in time I don't. I forgot what it was. But the fire marshal came out and said they had.

[Dad]

They had screwed all of the windows closed.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes. And so that's what I had told the director, that they needed to pull the records for how many times of how many times the fire department was called at Pensacola to see just all the inhumane things that were being done. Even the fire marshal was like, you can't do this.

[Dad]

The fire marshal stood in the front lobby of our building and said, who screwed these windows closed? And the staff, the COs. Which they didn't. You know, they're guards and they're like. And I said, I'll tell you who did it. And I. And I outed them. I told every bit of it because I never threw rocks and hit hands. I want you. If I hit you between your eyes with a rock, I need you to know I got you. So I ain't hiding behind it.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But even with the conditions, both conditions were pretty bad.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yours, what I would argue was way worse than his. But when it came to the whole transport process for you, because I think that addresses to some of the comments you and I talked about it that have been made, that when, now when you look at mom, she just looks different in her eyes. Do you think that has a part to play in it?

[Mom]

That was a huge. The transit process was something that I do not wish on anybody. I mean, I really don't. It was horrible. I left my prison. And keep in mind, yes, we're in prison, but you're not shackled, you're not handcuffed, you're not in a room that's locked.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. And they got you super, super early in the morning. Right. One of your friends called me.

[Mom]

Yeah, it was early. It was not super early that morning when I left the other facilities. It was early in the morning, but I remember I left early. You are shackled, you are handcuffed, belly chained, and you are taken to the airport. You're put on a plane with men. And it's usually. There's usually no more than maybe like 10 women and then the rest of the plane is completely full with men.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And then you were one of three women during one of the one time,

[Mom]

I believe when I left. But the thing about it is you stop and you pick people up and people get off. So it's you, you're, you don't know where you're going. They will not tell you where you're going. All they tell you is you're getting on this plane. I left Kentucky, I went to Oklahoma, which is a transfer.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Didn't you stop in Memphis first?

[Mom]

I think that was on the way back. I stopped in Memphis, I went to Oklahoma. When you, if you get off the plane in Oklahoma, you're going to either the transfer center, which is there at, it's attached to the airport, or you're going to Cimarron, which is about an two hour bus ride from the airport, or you're going to Grady County Jail. So when I left Kentucky, I went to Cimarron and I was in Cimarron for six days. And you, you know, you're locked in there. You're in a pod, but you have cells that you're, you're in during counts. You're locked in your cell. Of course, the time that I was there was like their twice yearly big shakedown and inspection. So there it was a lot of, a lot of time sitting in a cell. I was in there with one other person. She was a super nice girl that was in transit as well. But it was just a whole different. So most of it were people waiting to either be sentenced or waiting to be transferred to pr. They were just starting their prison sentences. I was there for six days. They tell you and I spent a

[Interviewer (Host)]

fortune midnight trying to, for us to talk. Literally during that whole process of transport. Spent fifteen hundred dollars.

[Mom]

Yeah. You know, the, the only real advantage to that, it, to the transport is that we were able to talk more because as long as you have money and you either have, they give you a tablet or there's a phone in the pod where you can talk. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So like during her transport we could talk. It wasn't like, like they cut off

[Mom]

at night, but you could talk. I could talk to her if we

[Interviewer (Host)]

wanted to talk two hours a day. Yeah, we could.

[Mom]

Right. So I was there for six days. Midnight. They tell, told me, pack your stuff up, you're leaving. So I packed a little bit of stuff. I had just, basically just clean your, your space up, get ready to go. I sat there at a table till around 2, 3 in the morning because Cimarron is a two hour drive from the airport. So let me back up. When I got to the airport in Oklahoma, they put you on this bus. It was freezing cold. It was loud because it's, you know, everybody's handcuffed and shackled. Two hour drive. Get there, you have to check in. Got to the pod. I was there for six days. Midnight 1 night, they tell me, get ready.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And so you go from there where?

[Mom]

So I went from there to Lovejoy, which is in Atlanta.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Mom]

And that right outside of Atlanta, that

[Interviewer (Host)]

facility is male and female.

[Mom]

Yeah, they all are male and female. Everywhere.

[Dad]

She don't come in contact everywhere.

[Interviewer (Host)]

This one at.

[Mom]

At Lovejoy, it is very close quarters as far as there's. Basically, when I was there, there were two pods for women and the rest of the whole facility, hundreds and hundreds were men. But when I was brought into Lovejoy, you were help put in a holding cell.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, you called me. Sobbing. Yes.

[Mom]

And it was literally there were men right. In the next holding cell fighting you. You know, and literally I'm hearing this guard say, talking to this guy that was in the holding cell, man, I thought you were carving a turkey with that one. Literally where he had cut somebody up. Yeah. Got in a fight and cut someone up. I was.

[Interviewer (Host)]

She called me.

[Tempo Meals Ad Voice]

Literally.

[Mom]

We got to Lovejoy around 1:30 in the afternoon. It was 10:30 at night before I got back to my pod, that's when she called me. It was horrible. Horrible. I was in this little holding cell with I believe it was two or three other women got back there. It was just. It was loud. The whole place reeked of marijuana. It was crazy, like crazy.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But you were there for how long?

[Mom]

I was there for the. Well, like six days. At the beginning. I was in Cimarron. Then I was at Lovejoy from there till around 10 days after the trial. So. And that was like 40ish or was.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And I will never forget sitting there after the resentencing and Alex asking Judge Eleanor Ross if. For mom to be given a furlough to go back to the prison, because clearly she was given that at the beginning. Or if they can't put. If we can't pay for the federal government to transport her via vehicle to the facility. Because they've done that before. And she said, no, she'll be treated like the rest of them.

[Dad]

But she. But yet she didn't treat us like the rest of the people. But. And I want to address that. Judge Eleanor Ross, when you look at her cases and you look at how many have been Flipped back from the appellate court. The number is astronomical. And that is something that we need to be looking into because you have these judges that do not have the education or the bandwidth. Just because you graduate from and get your bar license doesn't mean that you're educated in finance, that you're educated in medical, that you have a medical degree. It doesn't mean that you're a tax advisor. Because if you'll remember, in our case, she didn't understand these numbers. All she understood was that we've got a ton of money, we've spent a ton of money, and that we think we're above the law. That's all she cared about. But this is a judge who would come in and take her shoes off and sit in the chair Indian style. So it doesn't surprise me when you told me that. Because she had a vendetta.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Dad]

She had a chip on her shoulder. She was going to. Literally, she was. She was lording over the white privileged individuals that was sitting in front of her.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Without a doubt.

[Dad]

That's all that was about.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And, mom, can you think if we back up.

[Mom]

So when I received word of the appeal. Yes.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Everything. And that's. We've already, like, we went through that. We walked people through that on the podcast. Was how you were set up to do your resentencing hearing via Zoom. Yes, it was. The clerk had already communicated with the prison, with Alex, everyone. And then Judge Ross said, nope, she'll be here in person.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And that's something now that I want to work on with the Bureau of Prisons and Congress. If you're already in federal custody, why are we wasting taxpayer dollars to transport you if they're just going to send you back?

[Mom]

Right. Because in my heart of hearts, I knew that Judge Ross was not going to give me any more time off than what she absolutely had to. Like, I fully expected to come back to prison. I wasn't shocked by her response to the resentencing. I really wasn't.

[Dad]

Well, I don't. So I don't think you can have it. I don't think you can be shocked by it because. And I think you were right and what your interpretation was. Because when you have a judge who's having ex parte communication with the prosecutor, knowing that that's a violation, certainly she's not going to do the right thing when it comes to you.

[Mom]

Right. So I wanted. That's why I requested to do the Zoom also for you, because I know how passionate you are about certain things, and I'm Passionate as well, because I've lived them. You know, not only did that resentencing, she didn't take any time off. It actually cost me days. You know, had it not been for you, Alice Johnson, President Trump, I would have served more time in prison because of that resentencing, because I lost 52 days that I was not earning First Step act credit.

[Good Girl Rx Ad Voice]

Well, and for people that don't understand

[Interviewer (Host)]

how that works, as you're in prison, you earn First Step act credits for all of your good time days. But when you're in transport, you're not considered to be in BOP custody. So if you're not in BOP custody, you can't earn those days off, which

[Mom]

is also affects all these people who sit in these county jails after they've been sentenced, waiting to go to prison. We had people that came to our camp that had been sitting in county jails for years. Yeah, yeah. We did not earn any first step back.

[Dad]

We had that as well. But the. The good news is, is that. So there's now, I think, roughly seven different circuits that have ruled that at the moment you are sentenced in federal court, you are in federal custody.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Dad]

And your time starts from that moment

[Mom]

forward, as it should.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Now, something that I want to address was at the resentencing hearing, you had made a statement that a lot of people perceived as an admission of guilt.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Looking back on that, what was your. What was your goal? What was your mission with the statement that you made? And was that you saying that, or was it something different?

[Mom]

It was absolutely something different. You know, based off of advice given from my attorney. Based off. Here I was in front of Judge Ross again. Again, the same judge who sentenced me to seven years in prison, who I am asking for a reduced sentence now that the appellate court has found that she ruled improperly on certain things. So it was not an admission of guilt, but more so you. Your hand is forced for you to say these things to the judge, because if you don't, they use anything they can to not give you any more time off.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. And I think in that moment, watching you, your whole. Because we were sitting in the courtroom, right. Your whole goal was just to get home to your kids.

[Mom]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer (Host)]

It didn't matter what you had to say, what you had to do. It was kind of just like, hey, I'm going to do it so I can get home, Right?

[Mom]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, again, my attorney advised and said, you know, you need to say X, Y and Z. You know, we need to plea.

[Dad]

Basically, Throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

[Mom]

Yeah, the mercy of the court, you know, so that hopefully she will give you some time off.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And that's the scary part. You and I have talked about it, dad, of how you have all these people who plead out and they say, yes, I'm guilty, X, Y, and Z, when in reality they're not, but they have no other option.

[Dad]

When you're looking at the federal. When you're looking at the federal government and their success rate, it's 97.3%.

[Mom]

Yeah, but people need to also understand that this. The success rate is so high because people plead out. You.

[Dad]

People actually go to trial. That's right.

[Mom]

They plea.

[Dad]

Because there's. Because they're. The fear of the unknown is why they do it. But if you'll remember, they came to us and, you know, in the beginning and said, you know, we could work out a plea deal, and we both said, we're not admitting to something we didn't do.

[Mom]

Right.

[Dad]

So. And.

[Mom]

But even after that, even during the sentencing part, because we did not admit to guilt, we were given an enhancement because of that.

[Dad]

That's right. And which should. That right there is literally should be something that should be thrown out.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But, dad, go back and clear up what she just said, because y' all just kind of breezed over that at the fact that you're sitting there in a courtroom at your sentencing hearing and because you did not see, say, because you were found guilty and you did not say, I was responsible for this. I am sorry. You got an enhancement, which means.

[Dad]

That means that you got more time. Yeah, that means you got more.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Which is absolutely insane.

[Dad]

It's the same thing, Savannah, with these prosecutors, them having prosecutorial, you know, prosecutorial immunity. That should stop, because we know that Tommy Crap and Annelise Peters, we know the corrupt things that they did in our case. And it's going to be brought out on the. You know, in the new documentary that we're doing with Lifetime and Judge Eleanor Ross, we're asking for a judicial review into her conduct. The. Until we start as a people in this country, we can sit and complain and say, oh, but you know, the federal government, you know, their success rate is 97%, but the success rate depends on the jurors in that jury box. So we as individuals in this country, we go sit in a jury box and we give them their 97% success rate, because we have been programmed to believe, well, it's the. It's the federal government, so surely they would not do anything corrupt Right.

[Mom]

But I think, I think it goes back to, though, a much bigger issue, a much bigger, broader problem of being a broken system. System. Because a jury trial is supposed to be of your peers, a jury of your, you know, people, your peers. And.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And my peers, if I was a doctor, would be other doctors, nurses, if I was a lawyer. Thank you.

[Mom]

Right. And so you are dealing with a very complex case. Everyone said, the judge said, the prosecutors, the defense. This is a huge case and it's very, very complicated. So I think you were dealing with people who did not understand. And based off the questions, they did not have the education, they did not have the knowledge to rule accurately.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, you have this life.

[Mom]

And I also want to say that I think people don't take jury duty seriously.

[Dad]

Well, no, because, I mean, we have people coming in in pajamas and bedroom

[Interviewer (Host)]

shoes, literally, and sleeping and saying, oh, I've got a baby shower I need to get to.

[Good Girl Rx Ad Voice]

They're guilty.

[Dad]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Now, how is an 18 year old pregnant college student gonna understand bank fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy? They're not.

[Mom]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And that, to me was a big issue. We knew we were screwed. Whenever they came back with a jury question that said, is the indictment a form of guilt?

[Dad]

Right. Well, the even more scary question was when they came back and said, the jury has a question. And the question was, well, now when you file an extension on your taxes, does that mean you don't have to pay taxes? They clearly understood nothing. And it's very important. I want to address this. People still believe that we owed taxes.

[Interviewer (Host)]

That's what. Exactly. That was the thing.

[Mom]

You were sent to time.

[Dad]

We were not sentenced to time for taxes. We didn't owe taxes. We got a refund. We had overpaid. That's why the prosecutors never wanted to make a big deal out of it, because they knew that their witness, Betty Carter, had lied under oath. They knew that the numbers that they had were inaccurate. And then when it was proven to them that we were. That we had overpaid, when the accountant got on the stand, they started backing out of that. And if you remember Annelise Peterstem, she says, your honor, the taxes have been paid.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes, exactly. And. But to.

[Tempo Meals Ad Voice]

Correct.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So nobody comes back and says that you were lying. There were taxes owed for like 22, 23, whatever the year was that we were in this.

[Mom]

Right.

[Dad]

Because they hadn't been filed yet.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Exactly. Because they hadn't been filed yet. But all the back stuff we didn't know.

[Mom]

Right, right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So when it comes to the taxes, nothing was owed like it had already been paid for the years that they were alleging that there was taxes.

[Mom]

It was decided, it was brought out by the IRS. That money was sitting in an account,

[Dad]

in your IRS account over $500,000.

[Mom]

But because they had put my name first and not your dad's name first, they didn't, they weren't aware of that, which I find very hard to believe considering that our tax records were pulled over 10,000 times during the course of the investigation.

[Dad]

And I want you to think about that. For every United States taxpayer, our tax, our tax information was pulled internally by the IRS over 10,000 times. Betty Carter, supposedly an expert, dealt with high net worth individuals, high profile individuals, pulled it hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. But yet she never saw that 500 something thousand dollars sitting there that had been paid eight years ago or whatever it was.

[Mom]

But never mind. We're, we're together, we've been married for 30 years. So how, how are you not looking at both?

[Interviewer (Host)]

They knew exactly what it was.

[Dad]

She said that because she knew she had been caught in a lie on the other. So it was easier for her to come back and say, well, I didn't see that money. Well, that goes again. That spits in the face of her declaration, of her touting how long she'd been with the irs. How, what an expert she was in the field. Well, you're such a damn expert that you didn't have enough sense to look because when the expert that we hired looked at the transcripts, she found it right away.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So how is she going to find it? But not the person inside.

[Mom]

And too, I think it also goes

[Interviewer (Host)]

to show how these individuals seek out certain people and certain cases. Because it's no coincidence that Betty Carter, who was on our case, is also the one that was after Kim, went after Kim Zolciak and their family. So it's these government officials. All they want to do is make a name for themselves.

[Dad]

That's it. That's it. They're, you know, and I, it's very targeted.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So this whole process has obviously been an absolute cluster from the very beginning.

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