19: Paul Bernardo: Where Does Responsibility Lie?

Summary

UNMARKED: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 19: Paul Bernardo: Where Does Responsibility Lie?
Release Date: April 22, 2026
Host: James Buddy Day
Key Voices: Nick Pran, Kathy Kinzora, Joanne Gillen

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a deep dive into one of Canada’s most notorious criminal cases: the crimes of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, challenging widely held perceptions about responsibility, victimhood, and system failures. Host James Buddy Day, along with journalists who covered the case in real time, explores not just the horrific acts themselves but the circumstances that allowed these crimes to occur and the lasting national trauma they caused.
The episode probes critical questions: How did Bernardo evade capture for so long? Was justice served? And where, truly, does responsibility lie—between perpetrator, accomplice, and a system that repeatedly failed to act?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The National Shock and the Myth of Normality

• Setting the Scene ([01:01]–[02:24]):

  • James Buddy Day recalls the case as a national trauma during his own teenage years in Canada, emphasizing how everyone seemed affected—a "feeling like something had broken in the country."
  • The case is known internationally as the "Ken and Barbie murders," a label Day pushes back against:

    "When you frame Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka as some sort of Bonnie and Clyde, you flatten the story and ignore everything that was already in motion before they ever met." ([03:08])

• Origins of Paul Bernardo ([06:55]–[07:33]):

  • The myth of his "normal" upbringing is challenged; family dysfunction and abuse are revealed through new reporting.
  • Quote:

    "On the surface it looked like a nice happy family, but actually inside it was a very unhappy family."
    (Nick Pran, [07:57])

• Childhood Environmental Influences ([10:43]–[13:47]):

  • The impact of Bernardo’s abusive, predatory father and fractious home environment is emphasized as foundational.
  • Studies on genetics and environment (psychopathy heritability) are discussed for context.
  • The beginnings of a pattern: anger toward women, voyeurism, and early sexual violence.

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2. Escalation: From Fantasies to Reality

• Early Behavior and Relationships ([14:11]–[15:55]):

  • Testimonies from women who knew Bernardo detail his charisma and growing abusiveness in relationships.
  • Abusive sexual demands, escalation, and the double life he led while at university.

• The Scarborough Rapist ([16:06]–[17:57]):

  • Bernardo’s series of sexual assaults in Scarborough, his tactics of following late-night buses to find victims.

    "Over the next three years, 14 incidents are officially connected, but again, that's not the full number… Bernardo himself later admits to additional victims, possibly as many as 30."
    (James Buddy Day, [16:37])

  • Police establish a task force, but efforts are hampered by underreporting and procedural errors.

• Criminal Enterprise and Systemic Failures

  • Side criminal activities (smuggling alcohol/cigarettes) and the topic of sexual violence’s chronic underreporting.

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3. Meeting Karla Homolka: The Formation of the Deadly Pair

• The Meeting ([18:41]–[21:28]):

  • Bernardo meets 17-year-old Karla Homolka; the age gap and his ongoing crimes are contextualized.
  • Homolka’s background painted as "typical" but soon subjected to Bernardo’s controlling sexual demands and grooming.

    "Research on coercive control shows that this kind of behavior is rarely immediate. It’s introduced gradually... over time, what once felt unacceptable becomes normal."
    (James Buddy Day, [21:00])

• Early Coercion and Escalation

  • Homolka begins to participate in videotaped sexual activities and the dynamic of increasing criminal complicity.

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4. Repeated System Failures

• DNA Evidence Mishandling ([24:43]–[25:13]):

  • Despite credible tips and a police sketch, DNA samples from Bernardo sit untested for 26 months as murders continue.

    "He readily gave them a DNA sample... and they just kept it and sat on the shelf for over two years."
    (Nick Pran, [25:05])

• The Elizabeth Bain Case ([26:44]–[27:51]):

  • Potential (but unproven) connection to another murder for which another man was wrongfully convicted; illustrates investigative blind spots.

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5. The Crimes: From Tammy Homolka to Murder and Cover-Up

• Tammy Homolka’s Death ([28:31]–[31:22]):

  • Tammy, Carla’s younger sister, is preyed upon, drugged with substances stolen by Carla, assaulted, and dies—her death initially ruled accidental.
  • Both Bernardo and Homolka’s direct roles and the chillingly staged aftermath ("scripted" interviews, no follow-up by authorities).
  • Carla’s coerced complicity is cemented, with Bernardo leveraging shame and threat over her.

• Normalization and Compartmentalization ([32:33]–[38:40]):

  • Increasingly, Bernardo’s focus shifts toward engineered captivity and elaborate sadistic fantasies.
  • The kidnapping and murder of Leslie Mahaffy:
    • Victim is held for two days, crimes recorded; family comes for dinner while body is hidden in the basement.
    • Meticulous concealment (dismemberment, concrete blocks) and missed investigative cues.

    "That is the entire Bernardo case in miniature. Again and again, there are points where the common sense follow up is absent."
    (James Buddy Day, [39:17])

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6. The Complicated Role of Karla Homolka

• Victim or Perpetrator? ([40:16]–[44:21]):

  • The ongoing debate is presented, exploring how Homolka’s complicity deepens (e.g., participation in abductions, repeated opportunities to help victims).
  • The case of Kristen French: deliberate abduction, Carla could have acted but chose not to; a defining moral question for the public and courts.

    “Carla was alone with Kristen. Bernardo went out to get some food… She could have saved her life. She could have just called the police… and she didn’t. I remember when we heard this in court, we were just, we were gobsmacked.”
    (Nick Pran, [43:20])

• Abuse and Control vs. Agency

  • The discussion is balanced with research on coercive relationships and the psychological binds that keep victims from leaving or acting.
  • Physical evidence of Bernardo’s escalating violence against Homolka leads finally to her turning on him.

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7. Legal Aftermath: The Plea Bargain and its Fallout

• The "Deal with the Devil" ([47:24]–[50:14]):

  • Karla Homolka negotiates a plea deal—in exchange for testimony against Bernardo, she gets manslaughter, not murder, and a 12-year sentence.

    "At first, she presents as a victim. There are visible injuries, a documented pattern of abuse... In cases like this, prosecutors are trained to recognize coercive control."
    (James Buddy Day, [47:48])

  • Tapes are discovered after the deal is struck, revealing her as an active, sometimes enthusiastic, participant.

    "When the tapes were eventually found and watched, she doesn't look like a victim. Carla Homolka looks like she's a willing participant. She looks like she's enjoying it."
    (Kathy Kinzora, [50:14])

• Public and Judicial Outrage

  • "Deal with the Devil" becomes shorthand for the sense of injustice many felt; calls to nullify the deal go unheeded.
  • Homolka serves her time, is released (2005), and remains a lightning rod for public anger and debate over where lines of responsibility truly fall.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Creation of a Killer:

  "Early exposure to violence and perceived childhood trauma… Paul’s genetics and environment, they translate to a lower emotional response. He doesn’t feel fear, guilt or attachment the same way as others."
  (James Buddy Day, [10:57])

• On Legal/Systemic Failures:

  "That sample actually sits for 26 months. The results don’t come back until January of 1993 and during that time the murders are committed. The question is why?"
  (James Buddy Day, [25:13])

• On Psychological Control:

  "Victims can become psychologically bound to the relationship, especially when there’s manipulation or shared wrongdoing involved."
  (James Buddy Day, [31:22])

• On The Moral Debate:

  “When does a person stop being a victim and become a perpetrator? And when there is a moment, clear, uninterrupted, where action is possible, what does it mean if nothing happens?”
  (James Buddy Day, [43:51])

• On the Release and Lingering Public Reaction:

  "[Homolka’s] interview… was controlled, measured, and ultimately brought us no closer to the truth. In the years since, the public has done something the system no longer can. They've tracked her, followed her name changes, movements, sightings."
  (James Buddy Day, [51:47])

• On Responsibility:

  "Paul Bernardo was the mastermind... But I wonder, would she have done what she did without Paul Bernardo? I don't think so."
  (Kathy Kinzora, [52:50])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:01]–[02:24] — James Buddy Day on the impact of the case in Canada
• [03:08] — Critique of the "Ken and Barbie" framing
• [06:55]–[07:33] — Bernardo’s childhood: myth vs. reality
• [14:14] — Joanne Gillen on Bernardo in high school
• [16:06]–[17:57] — The Scarborough Rapist attacks and police failures
• [23:58] — Composite sketch leads to DNA collection (which is then delayed)
• [28:31]–[30:14] — The killing of Tammy Homolka: family complicity, failed investigation
• [32:33]–[38:40] — Escalation to murder, failed opportunities by authorities
• [43:08]–[43:51] — The Kristen French case: Carla’s choice, moral questions
• [47:24]–[50:14] — The plea deal, discovery of videotapes, public/prosecutorial outrage
• [51:47]–[52:50] — Aftermath, public tracking of Karla Homolka
• [52:50]–[53:16] — Concluding thoughts on responsibility

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Final Reflection

This episode is a powerful, disturbing unpacking of one of the darkest chapters in Canadian criminal history—not just recounting the acts of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, but interrogating the ecosystem of failure that allowed their crimes to persist. Listeners are left to grapple with the uncomfortable gray zones between victim and perpetrator, justice and expedience, public myth and lived horror.
As the episode reiterates: “This story was never just about what happened. It's about how it was allowed to happen.”

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For further exploration, the full videotaped interview, case files, and related episodes are available in the Unmarked Case Files research portal.

Transcript

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[James Buddy Day]

This case hits home when I was 15 years old, growing up in Canada, the name Paul Bernardo was everywhere. Front page headlines lead stories on the news. People were talking about it in kitchens, in school hallways, like. Like something had broken in the country.

[Nick Pran]

Paul Bernardo Carlo Hamilco case was easily the worst case I ever covered.

[James Buddy Day]

Between 1987 and 1993, Paul Bernardo targeted women in the suburbs outside of Toronto, committing a series of assaults before escalating to the abduction and murder of at least three victims. The crimes shock the country not just because of what was done, but because it was documented, recorded by the killers themselves, and because Bernardo's accomplice, his wife, Karla Homolka, made a deal with prosecutors that decades later is still debated.

[Kathy Kinzora]

I really don't think that she would have done the things she did without him.

[James Buddy Day]

This isn't just the story of the crimes, it's the story of how someone like Bernardo continued to get away with it.

[Kathy Kinzora]

There was a massive backlog. If he had have been arrested earlier on, those lives could have been saved.

[James Buddy Day]

This case didn't just happen, it was allowed to happen. And this episode is about why. The shock of how can there be these Canadian serial killers. I think that these two people coming out of the Toronto area, that was shocking to Canada and the world even. I'm James Buddy Day. This is unmarked. If you're outside of Canada, you've probably heard this case referred to as the Ken and Barbie murders. Now I'm going to push back on that. That label has never sat well with me because it misses the point of what actually happened. When you frame Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka as some sort of Bonnie and Clyde and you flatten the story and you ignore everything that was already in motion before they ever met. So I'm going to ask you to set that aside. As we unpack this case, you can decide for yourself whether accountability was correct, misjudged, or something else entirely. Before we go too far, let me catch you up. Paul Bernardo was arrested on February 17, 19, 1993, in connection with a series of sexual assaults in a suburb of Toronto. Later convicted and sentenced for crimes related to three murders. While many of his crimes were committed alone, the murders were carried out with an accomplice, his fiance and later wife, Karla Homolka. She completed her sentence and was released in 2005. She's now living in Canada under an assumed name.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Paul Bernardo was the mastermind. And I still to this day hear people say that she's the evil one, that she is the worst one out of the two of them. But I wonder, would she have done what she did without Paul Bernardo? I don't think so.

[James Buddy Day]

We'll get to that. But first, there's a piece of evidence you. You need to understand. Throughout this episode, you're going to hear about the videotapes. Bernardo and Homolka recorded their crimes on a camcorder. Now, Canada is not the United States. Evidence is handled much differently here. Not everything is considered appropriate for public release. So in 2001, those tapes, along with a large volume of case evidence, were. Was destroyed by police. But before that, they were played in court. And we tracked down the journalists who were there.

[Nick Pran]

We didn't see the videos, but the judge allowed us to hear them. And it was. Stuff like that just stays with you forever.

[James Buddy Day]

That's Nick Prague, a respected Canadian print journalist who covered the case in real time for the Toronto Star.

[Nick Pran]

I mean, when you cover murder cases, they're all hard to do, but this one just stuck with me and other reporters as well.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is Kathy Kinzora, who also covered the case in real time for a Toronto radio station.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Probably the worst part of the trial for me was when the tapes were played. It was devastating for everybody that listened to it and the jurors had to watch it, which is hard to imagine.

[James Buddy Day]

I should also note, before the tapes were destroyed, a brief portion, about 2 1/2 minutes, were released to the media. Now, there's nothing depicting the crimes themselves. These are more candid moments between Bernardo and Homolka. And if you're watching on YouTube, we will show you portions of that footage, footage throughout this episode. But before we get to how Bernardo and Homolka meet and what was said between them, we start with Paul Bernardo himself, because that's where the myth begins. When a case reaches this level of national attention, the story begins to simplify case in point. It's often reported that Paul Bernardo was a normal child raised in a happy home. Here's journalist Nick Pran summarizing that version of the story.

[Nick Pran]

As a young boy, he was a boy scout. He was, you know, blond haired, blue eyed, happy little kid. And the neighbors loved him when he walked around in his boy scout uniform, the way he sort of, sort of pinch his cheek, he was just very sweet and he played ball hockey with friends and he's, you know, he seemed like nothing was really wrong with him.

[James Buddy Day]

Now when you go back through the reporting, that version doesn't hold by all

[Kathy Kinzora]

accounts, from the outside seem like a normal family. You know, later we would learn that there were some other issues going on in the house.

[James Buddy Day]

Paul Bernardo is born on August 27, 1964 to Kenneth and Marilyn Bernardo, the first of three children. And it's his father, Kenneth Bernardo, where the story starts to shift. Long before his son becomes known for his crimes, Kenneth Bernardo is modeling behavior Paul Bernardo will later repeat.

[Nick Pran]

On the surface it looked like a nice happy family, but actually inside it was a very unhappy family.

[James Buddy Day]

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[Nick Pran]

They didn't sleep in the same room and there was really no warmth between the two of them. As Paul got older, there was just, there was nothing there. He didn't have a strong relationship with his dad or his mom.

[James Buddy Day]

What you start to see through interviews, through reporting is a pattern, a strained household instability, anger directed inward. I'm not going to reduce this to a single cause, but there are indicators here that come up again and again in cases like this. Early exposure to violence and perceived childhood trauma. And studies, especially twin and adoption research, consistently find that traits associated with psychopathy, callousness, lack of empathy, impulsivity, they're moderately heritable, roughly 40 to 60% in plain terms, Paul's genetics and environment, they translate to a lower emotional response. He doesn't feel fear, guilt or attachment the same way as others. And this is often expressed towards his mother.

[Nick Pran]

He developed a strong anger towards her and maybe towards women in general, but it was towards her, obviously. And he yelled at her a lot. And she used to yell at him a fair bit.

[James Buddy Day]

It's been widely reported that when Paul is 16, his mother tells him he's illegitimate, the result of an affair, according to Bernardo's own account. The news devastates him, though whether that claim is true or an attempt by his mother to distance herself from his predatory father remains unclear.

[Kathy Kinzora]

He was very angry at his mom, had a very strained relationship with his mom.

[James Buddy Day]

After finding out about that, neighbors we spoke with said no one was ever invited inside the Bernardo home. The shame doesn't just disappear, it gets redirected.

[Nick Pran]

Paul always had these sexual fantasies that he wanted to, you know, sexually abuse women. He always sort of had the Fantasies when he, as he was growing up.

[James Buddy Day]

There are documented reports of voyeurism at this time. Paul watching people through windows, mimicking behavior seen in his father. At one point, he's confronted by a neighbor. Paul himself is assaulted. Police are called, but nothing comes of it. And this is where things start to consolidate. The anger, the instability in the home, what he's witnessed and what he's internalizing,

[Kathy Kinzora]

that sort of translated into other relationships he had with women. He didn't trust them, he didn't like them, he just didn't have any respect for women. They were objects. They weren't humans to him. They were just objects.

[James Buddy Day]

By high school, that pattern sharpens. He becomes fixated on control, particularly over young women and the idea of dominance tied to it. Later, a psychiatrist from the prosecution will diagnose him with multiple paraphilic disorders, including sexual sadism, voyeurism and other related conditions.

[Joanne Gillen]

I met Paul in high school.

[James Buddy Day]

That's Joanne Gillen, who grew up down the street from the Bernardo family in Scarborough.

[Joanne Gillen]

He was a good looking guy and he was charismatic. As a female, I myself, I thought he lacked confidence and that's why he was so pushy, maybe, but he had, he had a following of girls that wanted to date him.

[James Buddy Day]

At his trial, it will later be revealed that Paul Bernardo pressures girlfriends to make his developing fantasies tangible.

[Nick Pran]

He had girlfriends and he was, you know, he's a very attractive guy and girls really liked him. But after a few dates, he would start to get abusive with them.

[Kathy Kinzora]

He started acting out some of his sexual desires early on in those relationships that often scared the women away. Like he wanted to put ligatures around their neck and tie them up and things that they just weren't comfortable with.

[James Buddy Day]

In the early 1980s, Bernardo attends the University of Toronto, Scarborough, studying accounting.

[Nick Pran]

His dad was an accountant and he wanted to be an accountant like his dad. And he eventually went to university and studied accounting.

[James Buddy Day]

Despite the change in circumstance, we can see his behavior continuing to escalate. During this time, two women obtained peace bonds against those are like restraining orders in Canada. It comes after a series of obscene phone calls by Bernardo. And at night, something else.

[Kathy Kinzora]

He was living two lives. He was living the life of a university student with girlfriends and a social life, while at the same time he was going out late at night and attacking women.

[James Buddy Day]

Sometime around 1986, Bernardo begins a series of sexual assaults in Scarborough, crimes that would later lead to him being identified in the media as, quote, the Scarborough Rapist. Exactly when this begins remains unclear. What we do know is that by 1987 he's working as a junior accountant at Price Waterhouse. And in May of that year, he attacks a woman walking alone.

[Nick Pran]

At the time, women, if they were working late at night, taking the bus home, the bus had to only stop at bus stops and some of the bus stops were dark. And what Bernardo would do, he would follow the late night buses and look for ones where there was, he could see there was just a lone woman.

[James Buddy Day]

What's reported to police is only part of the picture. Over the next three years, 14 incidents are affected, officially connected, but again, that's not the full number. In 1995, the Toronto Star reports that calls to crisis lines increase by 30% during that period. And Bernardo himself later admits to additional victims, possibly as many as 30, some occurring outside of Canada on the side.

[Nick Pran]

What he was doing was he was going into the States and smuggling cigarettes and booze and bringing it back over the border and selling it to a gang that were based out in St. Catharines.

[James Buddy Day]

It's important to understand the context here. Sexual violence is significantly underreported. Studies conducted by Justice Canada suggest that a majority of assaults are never reported to police.

[Nick Pran]

He'd start about 10, 30 or 11 or so and just go for a couple hours just following buses, looking for his next victim.

[James Buddy Day]

In some cases, victims report being threatened, personal information taken, fear extended beyond the attack itself. And as this is happening, the police are searching for a suspect. They even form a task force working with the FBI. According to one report, more than 60 officers are involved at the same time. In October of 1987, Paul Bernardo meets Carla Homolka.

[Nick Pran]

Carla Hamolka grew up in St. Catharines, which is near the very pleasant city near the American border. Family of three girls, mother and father, middle class, very well liked family. They always had sleepovers at her house.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Carla was a typical teenage girl in some respects. She had close girlfriends. She did fairly good at school, was involved in school activities. She had a part time job at a pet store and then at a vet clinic.

[James Buddy Day]

Now, before we go any further, it's worth pausing on the dynamic between Bernardo and Homolka. At this point, he's 23, already the subject of a police task force, and she's 17. Whatever conclusions you draw about her later involvement, this is where it begins. But from a developmental standpoint, Karla Homolka is still years away from full neurological maturity. That doesn't remove responsibility, but it does matter when you're trying to understand how this relationship forms.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Carla and a colleague from work went down to the lobby restaurant late at night to grab a bite to eat. They were in their pajama pants. It was just a casual thing.

[Nick Pran]

Purely by chance, Bernardo went into the restaurant and he saw Carla with her friends, and he came over and Paul did as usual. See who he can hit on, maybe. And the two of them, Paul and Carla, they just. Something just clicked.

[James Buddy Day]

The first meeting happens very quickly.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Immediately. Carla and her friend invited Paul and his friend up to the hotel room where they were watching movies. And Carla and Paul ended up sleeping together that night for the first time with the friends in the room. So kind of setting the tone for the type of relationship that they would have.

[James Buddy Day]

The relationship continues to escalate fast. Bernardo begins introducing elements of control.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Bernardo asked Carla to do the things that he asked other girlfriends, and she went along with it. But things progressed from there.

[James Buddy Day]

Research on coercive control shows that this kind of behavior is rarely immediate. It's introduced gradually. What you're seeing here is grooming love, bombing at the start, then pushing boundaries, seeing what holds. And over time, what once felt unacceptable becomes normal.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Bernardo had a camcorder. Camcorders in 1990 were a big deal, and he filmed everything.

[James Buddy Day]

What's important here is that this isn't enough for Paul Bernardo. Even as the relationship intensifies, he continues attacking women in Scarborough. Over the next two years, multiple attacks are linked to him. Victims describe a consistent approach, control, intimidation, and language that echoes what he grew up around. At this point, Bernardo has largely disengaged from work. He quits his job, begins living on credit, which is something he continues up until his arrest. And on May 24, 1989, he declares bankruptcy. Two days later, he attacks again. This time, he makes a key mistake. We're going to take a short break. Stay with me. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Given the stories that I cover, I'm a firm proponent of taking care of yourself. And one of the most common stressors we overlook is financial. It doesn't just live in your bank account. It follows you into your day, into your sleep, and into your relationships. And it's one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I remember a stretch where I felt like no matter how hard I worked, I couldn't quite get ahead. Now what's the point? Surprised me wasn't the numbers. It was the pressure, the anxiety, that constant background noise. But that's where therapy can help. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. But remember, therapy isn't about getting financial advice. It's about managing the stress Even the shame. It's a safe space to unpack your relationship with money, to understand your patterns and to build healthier ways of creating coping. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your goals? I actually went through the process. It's straightforward. A short questionnaire helps you identify needs and preferences and with more than 12 years of experience and an industry leading match fulfillment rate, they typically get it right the first time when life feels overwhelming. Therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at better help.com unmarked that's BetterHelp H E-L-P.com unmarked thank you again for staying with us. Now back to the record.

[Nick Pran]

This 13th victim, I believe he was walking down the street and he bumped into her and they struck up a conversation as they were walking on the street together. And she had no idea who the woman. And when he got to a dark area, he dragged her into some bushes and she was able to give the police a very good sketch of him.

[James Buddy Day]

This is Joanne Gillen, who grew up in the same neighborhood and went to high school with Bernardo. She recalls mutual friends recognizing the sketch widely publicized in local media.

[Joanne Gillen]

Both saw the composite sketch and they both said they believed it was Paul Bernardo and they had reported it.

[James Buddy Day]

Reporter Kathy Kinzora, who covered the case in real time, recalls the same thing.

[Kathy Kinzora]

People started calling the police, identifying him as a possible suspect. Police even went to his house and took his DNA.

[James Buddy Day]

In November of 1990, Bernardo provides saliva, hair and blood samples for DNA analysis.

[Nick Pran]

He readily gave them a DNA sample and they took his DNA. They just kept it and sat on the shelf for over two years.

[James Buddy Day]

That sample actually sits for 26 months. The results don't come back until January of 1993 and during that time the murders are committed. The question is why? A lack of resources, certainly. Inexperience with serial offenders, likely. But there's something else. From what I found, DNA testing was prioritized based on perceived likelihood. And the task force was relying on an offender profile provided by the FBI. A profile that didn't match Bernardo. And because of that, he's deprioritized not once but twice. And even to this day we still don't understand the true cost of those decisions.

[Paul Bernardo]

The only thing I remember bankruptcy is that happened around a couple days before the sexual assault that the composite came over. That was.

[James Buddy Day]

That's Paul Bernardo speaking with investigators while incarcerated in 2007. The reason for this interview traces back to another case. On June 19, 1990, 22 year old University of Toronto student Elizabeth Bain disappears in Scarborough. Three days later, her car is found, signs of foul play. Her body is never recovered.

[Nick Pran]

Did you kill Elizabeth Bane on June 19, 1990?

[Paul Bernardo]

Well, it's a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life? I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but, you know, there's a lot of issues about that, right? You know, the Carlos and my role, who did what, where, when. This is why I said, did you guys, you know, go down there to get a polygraph to get to see if she was telling the truth? Like, why didn't Bevid do it in the place first? First place.

[James Buddy Day]

To this day, it remains unclear if Elizabeth Bane is a victim of Paul Bernardo. Her boyfriend, Robert Baltovich, was convicted of her murder at the time, but later exonerated. He has long maintained that Bernardo is responsible. And then there's this Carla Homolka speaking to investigators about the same victim.

[Kathy Kinzora]

I think the only thing that he ever said about her was that her boyfriend did it or something like that. But there wasn't any real extensive discussion. But he talked about, like, all, all of the women that were disappearing.

[James Buddy Day]

Like many of these cases, the line isn't clear. When does escalation become homicide? When does fantasy become action? This is roughly six months before the first confirmed murder. And that uncertainty is the part that still lingers.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Bernardo knew that the police were on his case, so he moved From Scarborough

[James Buddy Day]

to St. Catherine's by 1990, Bernardo proposes to Carlo Hamalka, who has just graduated high school. Together, they move in with her family in St Catharines, just outside of Toronto.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Once Paul Bernardo moved in with the Homolka family, he became obsessed with Carla's younger sister, Tammy Homolka.

[James Buddy Day]

At the time, Tammy Hamolka is 15. There are reports of Bernardo focusing obsessive attention on Carla's younger sister. Bernardo's sadism is hardening around power and objectification, a fixation on rich virginity that makes grim psychological sense given his upbringing. It isn't intimacy he's after. It's a domination over something he sees as pure. This manifests on December 23, 1990, when Carla alters Tammy's drinks.

[Kathy Kinzora]

There is video from that night that shows Tammy slurring her words, seeing she's saying that she's seeing double. She's clearly under the influence because of

[James Buddy Day]

sensitivities on these platforms. I have to be careful in how I describe what follows, but what matters is that we understand the roles. Tammy is deliberately incapacitated and while she's in that state, she is assaulted. Both Homoka and Bernardo participate and it's recorded. Afterwards, Tammy goes into medical distress.

[Nick Pran]

What they did after she started choking, they put all her clothes back on, took her to her bedroom and then called 911. They said, you know, she's having trouble breathing. And they called 911 and ambulance came, took her, but she was dead on arrival at a hospital. It was just passed off as an accidental death. Death.

[James Buddy Day]

Bernardo and Hoka are interviewed together and their account to authorities would later be described as, quote, scripted. Yet the event is not investigated thoroughly.

[Nick Pran]

The red flags weren't really followed up at, at that time.

[James Buddy Day]

In the aftermath, the relationship between Bernardo and Hoka shifts again.

[Kathy Kinzora]

At that point, Carla and Paul were already engaged. And Carla says that Paul used the death of her sister to force her to carry on with the marriage because at that point she didn't want to get married. But he said, you have to marry me or I'll tell your parents what happened to your sister. And she says that he also used that moving forward for every other criminal act they committed.

[James Buddy Day]

This is where the debate begins.

[Nick Pran]

I mean, she was definitely an abused woman, but I mean, she could have just left him.

[James Buddy Day]

That sentiment is common, but the research, it complicates things. In coercive relationships, leaving isn't always a simple decision. Control is reinforced over time through pressure, fear and leverage. Victims can become psychologically bound to the relationship, especially when there's manipulation or shared wrongdoing involved. And in this case, that's what we see. After Tammy's death, they move into their own home. On paper, it looks like a reset, a grieving couple starting over. But that's not what this is. Bernardo has already begun to detach from ordinary life. He's not working, he's living on credit. And he leans on Homolka's income to rent a house, drive a sports car and carry a cell phone. Status symbols at the time. At night, he drinks heavily, he takes sedatives. Homolka steals from her job. The fantasy life is no longer something he visits in secret.

[Kathy Kinzora]

He wanted to try again and this time he wanted to have this person as a sex slave, as someone he could control and sexually assault over a period of time, not just a one time event.

[James Buddy Day]

Remember, this is 1991 and one of the biggest cultural ties, touchstones in North America is Silence of the Lambs. Bernardo sees in it something he already wants. Control, captivity, domination, sustained over time. This again is Bernardo during a 2007 interrogation.

[Paul Bernardo]

Like the, the Profile is the serial killer pays attention to all the news media. This is narcissistic personnel, all that crap.

[James Buddy Day]

This interview with Bernardo is deeply fascinating because for most of it, he's complaining about how he's being portrayed, about the police labeling him in the media as a liar, despite admitting to multiple murders and acknowledging more assaults than he can even recall. I will post the full interview for you inside Unmarked Case Files, a research portal. But back in 1991, what matters psychologically is that he's no longer satisfied by opportunistic attacks alone. The fantasy has to become more elaborate, more immersive, more total. This is no longer just about chasing risk in the dark and disappearing into the night. On June 15, 1991, Bernardo is driving in Burlington alone. It's late at night when he comes across Leslie Mahaffey.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Leslie Mahaffy lived in Burlington with her mom and dad and her little brother. Burlington is about halfway between Toronto and St. Catharines, where Bernardo was now living. And she had been out that night at a memorial for some kids at her school and another high school who had died in a car accident just the week before.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is important, by all accounts, he's not looking for Leslie specifically.

[Kathy Kinzora]

There's no indication that he had seen Leslie Mohaffy ever before that night. It was just opportunity.

[Nick Pran]

She was walking home with friends and they walked her to her house and she went to the side door, which she always been in, but it was locked. So, you know, it's like, Was she a 14 year old girl? It's 2 o' clock in the morning. She went to a nearby store down the street, used the phone and called up one of her friends and said, I can't get into the house.

[James Buddy Day]

Police reports indicate Mahaffy speaks to friends and hesitates to wake her parents. After that brief call, she returns home.

[Nick Pran]

So she went back to her house. She was sort of in the backyard trying to get the courage to knock on the door and who should pop up but Bernardo?

[James Buddy Day]

According to the prosecution at trial, Bernardo lures Leslie into his car with the promise of cigarettes, abducts her and takes her back to the house, where he wakes Homolka.

[Nick Pran]

Carla was sleeping and, you know, Paul brought her in and said, look what I've got, you know, we got a sex slave for us.

[James Buddy Day]

What happens next is meticulously documented. And I'm going to be careful in how I describe it. What matters is that the victim is held in the home for two days and what she endures is recorded. And the accounts over Homolka's role begin to split Carla.

[Nick Pran]

As she said later, she was afraid

[James Buddy Day]

to do anything that becomes central to everything that follows. Because if you're trying to understand Homolka psychologically, this is where the easy answers break down.

[Kathy Kinzora]

When Carla Homolka first saw that Leslie Mahaffey was in her house, she also noticed that there were two champagne flutes on the dining room table that Paul had used to give a beverage of some kind to Leslie. And Carla was probably more upset about the fact that the champagne flutes had been used, as opposed to that her husband had abducted a young girl and had her in their home. She was very angry at Paul because these were special champagne flutes that they had received as a wedding gift.

[James Buddy Day]

That detail is chilling because of what it suggests I about normalization. Bernardo is constantly testing boundaries and then expanding them. But there's something else happening here as well. By this point, Homolka is not only being controlled, she's also being implicated.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Leslie was strangled with an electrical cord by Paul Bernardo with Carla Homolka watching. Paul was able to hold this over Carla Homolka's head and say, listen, if you don't do what I tell you to do, I will tell your parents. I will show them the videotape, because there is videotape of it.

[James Buddy Day]

This is how abusers keep people. Not just through fear of injury, but through shame, incrimination, and the destruction of every safe exit. And after the murder, this is personified by family obligations.

[Kathy Kinzora]

They put her body down in the basement while the family came over for

[Nick Pran]

dinner, Father's Day supper, I believe it was, and they're there at the dinner table with them. And in the basement, there's a body.

[James Buddy Day]

This is worth sitting with for a minute, not because it's sensational, but because it shows how fully compartmentalized Bernardo and Homoca have become. Afterwards, they take steps to conceal what happened, but they need materials. They make purchases, and that creates a trail.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Paul Bernardo dismembered her body with a saw, with an electric saw, and then put the body parts in concrete blocks, which he took with the help of Carla Homolka to a nearby lake and dropped in the lake.

[James Buddy Day]

That would later matter because those concrete blocks are dropped into Lake Gibson, where shifting water reveals them. Only two weeks later, on June 29, 1991.

[Nick Pran]

You'd think that maybe they would chuck around who's been buying cement lately. But that avenue was never investigated.

[James Buddy Day]

That is the entire Bernardo case in miniature. Again and again, there are points where the common sense follow up is absent. And while this is happening, Bernardo and Homolka are moving forward on their honeymoon. Bernardo Tells Homolka he is responsible for the Scarborough assaults. He claims There are 30 victims, some in Buffalo, New York, and they videotape each other bragging about the murders.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Not far away, Leslie's body was being discovered.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is where people start reaching for explanations that don't quite fit. Is Homolka delusional? Is this some kind of shared madness? I don't think that's the right frame. A person can be controlled and still act. A person can be terrorized and still become complicit. That's what makes this case so hard to sit with.

[Nick Pran]

You know, it was after Tammy's death, so she wasn't going to notify the police or anything because she always was afraid that she would go to jail forever. So she, she just accepted it.

[James Buddy Day]

After Leslie's murder, Bernardo becomes even more erratic. The control over Homolka sharpens with increasing domestic abuse. Nick Prawn recalls a story that captures just how unstable things have become in the Bernardo household.

[Nick Pran]

Carla loved animals. She had an iguana in her house and I think one time it bit Paul. He got really pissed off and he, he took it and he cut the head, cut its head off and then he cooked it up, cut it into pieces and cooked it up and made her eat, eat pieces of it. It was, it was just bizarre.

[James Buddy Day]

By 1992, the public record begins to thin, partially because Canadian publication bans limited what could be reported at the time. But from trial records, we know this. Bernardo and Homolka attempt to recreate what happened with Tammy, this time with an adult woman she's never publicly identified, but in court she's referred to as Jane Doe.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Carla befriended her because Paul, she says, had told her to find someone that they could use as a sex slave in their house. So she befriended her, had her over, had her over for sleepovers.

[James Buddy Day]

Trial records indicate the victim is given medication again taken from Homoka's workplace. And while she's incapacitated, she's assaulted. Both participate and it's recorded.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Jane Doe was never aware that she'd been assaulted until years later when the videotapes were found and she was seen

[James Buddy Day]

on the video less than a month later, April 16, 1992, they act again, but this time it's different, more coordinated. Bernardo and Homolka are driving past Holy Cross Secondary School when they see 15 year old Kristen French. And this time it's Carla who makes the approach.

[Nick Pran]

Carla got out of the car and she had a map in her hands and she put it on there and she acted all dumb and, you know, I'm not from here. I'm trying to find this. Can you help me? And so she came over to help her.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Paul got out of the car, came around and pushed Kristen into the car. And Carla hopped in the backseat and reached in and grabbed Kristen and held her by the hair to hold her down.

[James Buddy Day]

Unlike earlier attacks, this is a clear plan. Kristen French is kept alive for two weeks and at times Carla is alone with her.

[Nick Pran]

Carla was alone with Kristen. Bernardo went out to get some food, and Kristen suggested this restaurant that she knew would take him a half hour. And she was alone with Kristen. And Carla could have saved her life. She could have just called the police. She would have saved her life and she didn't. I remember when we heard this in court, we were just, we were gobsmacked. We just couldn't believe. I mean, there was a massive police manhunt underway and there were cruisers all over the place. They would be in that house in about three seconds if she'd called the police.

[James Buddy Day]

This is another key moment in the debate because it forces a question that doesn't have a clear answer. When does a person stop being a victim and become a perpetrator? And when there is a moment, clear, uninterrupted, where action is possible, what does it mean if nothing happens? Eventually, Kristen French is killed and her body is left in a location that feels intentional.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Leslie was buried in Burlington near her home. Kristin was abducted, you know, 20, 30 minutes away from there and her body was purposely dumped right beside Leslie's grave.

[James Buddy Day]

After the abduction of Kristen French, police launch a large scale search. Witnesses report seeing a teenage girl forced into a vehicle in broad daylight. Several witnesses are able to provide a description. A light colored car, Camaro style, driven by a man. Investigators be begin canvassing the area looking for vehicles that match. That's how Paul Bernardo comes onto their radar. He owns a light colored sports car. He lives within driving distance. He fits the general description. And two days after the abduction, police go to his home.

[Nick Pran]

When they went to his house, they saw the car again like a garber in the police. He was very outgoing and openly and of kind come on into the house, invited them in, wasn't nervous or anything. And so they said, nah, this ain't, this ain't the guy. Let's move on.

[Kathy Kinzora]

He was very proud of himself after because he believed that he had fooled them and he had remained cool as a cucumber and had tricked them into thinking he had nothing to do with any criminal activity.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is where the system fails again. They don't see what's right in front of them. But after this, despite no police intervention, things begin to fracture. Homolka becomes increasingly unstable under the pressure as media coverage intensifies. This culminates in early 1993, when Bernardo violently assaults Homolka during an argument. Medical records indicate she is assaulted with a flashlight, leaving her with severe fatal facial injuries. She's hospitalized.

[Nick Pran]

He beat her with the flashlight and gave her the two black eyes. I think they called it raccoon eyes. They were. That's when she went to the hospital.

[Kathy Kinzora]

After that, her parents and her sister staged sort of an intervention to try to convince her to come home, which eventually she finally did leave Bernardo after that last beating.

[James Buddy Day]

And now, finally, the system begins to catch up. The DNA results taken 26 months earlier come back identifying Paul Bernardo as the Scarborough Rapist.

[Kathy Kinzora]

At the same time, Carla Homolka had started talking to the police about Paul Bernardo.

[James Buddy Day]

On February 17, 1993, Paul Bernardo is arrested. That same night, Homolka admits to her aunt and uncle that Bernardo is in fact the Scarborough Rapist, that the couple were involved in the murder of Mahaffy and French, and that the crimes had been videotaped.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Karla Homolka had a lawyer who entered into discussions with the Crown attorney to have her testify against Paul Bernardo. She agreed, agreed to tell them what she knew about the abduction and deaths of Leslie and Kristen in exchange for only being charged with manslaughter.

[James Buddy Day]

The deal Carla Homolka makes with prosecutors is controversial even now. At first, she presents as a victim. There are visible injuries, a documented pattern of abuse, and. And in cases like this, prosecutors are trained to recognize coercive control. They understand that victims don't always leave, don't always resist in ways that we expect.

[Nick Pran]

People were very sympathetic towards Carla. They saw the battered eyes and black eyes and realized that she was a battered wife and she was forced to do everything. So all the sympathy was towards her.

[Kathy Kinzora]

After they ironed out that deal, which has been called the deal with the devil, she sat down with them for several days and told them everything that had happened in the house and also what had happened to her sister.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is the trade. They offer her a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony, because at this point, they don't have the full picture.

[Nick Pran]

Carla said there was videos, but they. They couldn't find them. The police were in there for days or weeks. They couldn't find the tapes.

[James Buddy Day]

So the question becomes practical. Do you risk losing the case against Bernardo, or do you secure it using the only witness you have? Prosecutors choose certainty.

[Nick Pran]

They agreed to a 12 year sentence. They didn't have all the details at the time. We didn't have the tapes. And so they agreed to a. A 12 year sentence for her. And her trial was behind closed doors.

[James Buddy Day]

12 years. This is where the system reveals something about itself. Because this isn't a failure of law, it's a function of it. Plea deals are designed for exactly this scenario, but that system assumes something critical, that you have enough of the truth. And in this case, case they don't. Because at the same time this deal is being finalized, Bernardo knows exactly what the missing pieces are.

[Nick Pran]

Bernardo's lawyer at the time sent in a crew and they chopped up the ceiling. What do crops say? They call it pot light for a reason. Or that's where they hide the drug addicts or drug dealers hide the pot. And they found the tapes.

[James Buddy Day]

The tapes were never gone. They were in the house the entire time.

[Kathy Kinzora]

I have a feeling she thought those tapes might never be found because she couldn't find them. But she told them they existed because when the tapes were eventually found and watched, she doesn't look like a victim. Carla Homolka looks like she's a willing participant. She looks like she's enjoying it.

[James Buddy Day]

And this is where the case fractures, because now there are two versions of Carla Homolka. The one prosecutors made a deal with and the one on tape.

[Joanne Gillen]

It disgusted me that they would make such a deal with her once. I mean, the deal was, to me, fine. But once they found the tapes, then the deal should have been off.

[James Buddy Day]

On July 6, 1993, Amolka's convicted conviction and plea deal are announced in court. She pleads guilty to two counts of manslaughter. Her 12 year sentence all but guarantees her future release.

[Nick Pran]

That's when we, we learned about Carla's involvement and her role. And it was shocking, you know, that she had helped abduct Kristen French. She set up her baby sister and could have saved the life of Kristen by letting her go. And we heard all. I remember the reporters, we were in court and we heard that and we went outside at break and we were in a circle there and we were talking and we just couldn't believe it.

[James Buddy Day]

Carla Homolka is released from prison in 2005. She remains in in Canada. Shortly after her release, Homolka gave an interview in French to the cbc. It was controlled, measured, and ultimately brought us no closer to the truth. In the years since, the public has done something the system no longer can. They've tracked her, followed her name changes, movements, sightings. It's an ongoing informal surveillance Driven less by curiosity and more by something unresolved, Paul Bernardo remains incarcerated, serving a sentence that all but guarantees he will die there. And in the end, we're left to sort through the details ourselves, because this story was never just about what happened. It's about how it was allowed to happen. A system that missed warning signs, that moved too slowly, that made decisions without all the facts.

[Kathy Kinzora]

Paul Bernardo was the mastermind. And I still to this day hear people say that she's the evil one, that she is the worst one out of the two of them because she killed her sister. But I wonder, would she have done what she did without Paul Bernardo? I don't think so. So I think Paul Bernardo is the deviant.

[James Buddy Day]

Before we wrap, a few show notes. First, in 1996, when in prison, Paul Bernardo fell victim to a targeted attack and our producer John Nadeau tracked down one of the inmates who carried out the assault. This man is now released, but gave a fascinating account of the his time incarcerated with Bernardo. It just didn't fit into this episode. So we're going to post it in full inside Unmarked Case Files, our research portal, where you can examine the evidence for yourself. Next, if you want to explore the Charles Manson case through my research and interviews, including with Charles Manson himself, my book, Charles Manson the Last Words, is available on Kindle and Amazon. Finally, on a personal note, I just released my first novel. It's called A Plague of Steel. It's a grim, dark fantasy war story, very much in that Abercrombie lane about what war leaves behind. It's available now on Kindle, Amazon and Kindle Unlimited. And if you do dive in, please leave a review. Which is the lifeblood for independent authors like myself. This episode of Unmarked was produced by John Nadeau and edited by Dave Alderson. Our additional producer is Jesse Demarais. Until next week, this is Unmarked.

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