Leaving Her Dream Job for Menopause Advocacy: Tamsen Fadal on HRT & Purpose After 50

Summary

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unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Episode: Leaving Her Dream Job for Menopause Advocacy: Tamsen Fadal on HRT & Purpose After 50
Date: December 23, 2025
Guest: Tamsen Fadal, Emmy Award-winning Journalist, Advocate, Author
Host: Dr. Mary Claire Haver

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Episode Overview

This episode of unPAUSED dives into the transformative journey of Emmy Award-winning news anchor Tamsen Fadal, who left her high-profile TV job to become a leading advocate for menopause awareness. Dr. Mary Claire Haver and Tamsen unravel deeply personal experiences — from on-air brain fog to making documentaries and writing a New York Times best-selling book. Together, they candidly discuss ageism in media, misinformation around hormone therapy, and how women can reclaim agency and community in midlife.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Tamsen’s Menopause Story: From Live TV to Advocacy

• Unexpected Symptoms on Air
  • Tamsen recounts a pivotal moment in 2019: while anchoring live television, she was overcome by brain fog and an intense hot flash, ultimately having to step off set for the first time in her 30-year career ([05:18-08:34]).
  • Quote:

    “I'd look at the teleprompter... I'd look at words and I'd be like, I know that word, but oh my gosh, I can't think of it. And I would just panic and then skip the word.” (Tamsen, [05:22])

• Misdiagnosis and Emotional Impact
  • Her symptoms, including months-long bleeding and severe anxiety, were repeatedly misattributed to stress, fibroids, or polyps; no one mentioned perimenopause ([07:39-10:31]).
  • She describes feeling “frustrated, moody, and lost,” questioning if her relationship or job was to blame ([08:40-09:38]).

Navigating Diagnosis and Medical Misinformation

• First Hearing ‘Menopause’
  • “I got a note in my patient portal... it said, 'In menopause. Any questions?'” ([09:42])
  • Even after deciding not to have children, the finality and surprise of the diagnosis was emotionally charged.
• Medical Gaslighting and SSRIs
  • Tamsen was prescribed Lexapro for anxiety hot flashes—a common but suboptimal practice due to lack of clinician training in menopause care ([11:03-11:39]).
  • Dr. Haver points out, “You’re five times more likely to be recommended an antidepressant for your hot flashes than the gold standard of hormone therapy” ([11:04]).

The Hormone Therapy Crossroads

• Generational Fear and Family Legacy
  • With her mother’s breast cancer history, Tamsen internalized a fear of estrogen ([13:03-16:26]), reinforced by media messages from the WHI study.
  • Quote:

    “All I knew in the back of my head, yeah, was estrogen's bad. Don't have anything to do with estrogen because your mom had breast cancer, right?” (Tamsen, [15:44])

• Seeking Answers and Finding Confidence
  • After multiple opinions, Tamsen only found clarity with a certified menopause practitioner who explained potential benefits, especially for sleep and confidence at work ([17:17-18:12]).
  • Even then, she describes the fear and guilt with every HRT patch:

    “Every time I put the patch on for a year or two, I was scared. What am I doing? Yeah, of course. I was scared.” ([18:02])

The Role of Journalism and Media Myths

• Undoing Harmful Narratives
  • Tamsen became obsessed with changing the story once she grasped how media had amplified fear around HRT ([20:05-21:34]).
  • Quote:

    “Those headlines and the media did a lot of that disservice. Right. I think in the back of my mind, it was viral before there was viral.” (Tamsen, [20:12])

• Pushing Menopause into Newsrooms
  • Despite anchoring health segments for decades, menopause was never spoken about. Once she forced the issue on-air, she realized viewers craved this validation ([21:34-24:15]).
  • Memorable anecdote:

    “One of the cameramen came running after me and he said, 'I think that my wife is going through some of this. Is there a way I can get ahold of you or somebody so she can talk to them?'” ([24:17])

Making Documentaries: “Shredding the Silence” and Beyond

• Grassroots Beginnings and Pushback
  • Tamsen and her co-producers initially self-funded their documentary after repeated rejections from industry—a testament to the persistent cultural silence and ageism ([28:07-32:19]).
  • When the trailer went viral, the floodgates opened: “To date, we've had over 1,004 screenings in cities across the US and in…45 countries” ([32:19]).
• PBS and First-of-its-Kind Storytelling
  • Landing the film on PBS for World Menopause Day brought credibility; Tamsen describes a “critical message at a critical time” ([32:36-33:23]).
• Facing Criticism, Standing Firm
  • Some detractors challenged the doc’s approach, but Tamsen is adamant the aim was “to open the conversation,” not promote any doctrine ([35:00-36:41]).
  • Quote:

    “Our only intention as journalists is to shed light, and that's what we did.” ([36:41])

Expanding the Lens: “Before the Pause”

• Addressing Perimenopause and Inclusivity
  • The forthcoming documentary, “Before the Pause,” seeks to fill gaps: breast cancer survivors, the perimenopausal timeline, multi-generational ‘hormonal households’ ([36:41-38:10]).
• Millennials and a Culture Shift
  • Dr. Haver and Tamsen agree Gen X “kicked the door in” and Millennials are eager, informed, and unashamed to talk menopause ([38:52-39:50]).

Publishing Best-selling Books

• Pitching “How to Menopause”: Industry Doubt to Bestseller
  • Publishers and even Tamsen’s first agent questioned the market for a menopause guide ([44:46-46:01]).
  • Ultimately, two editors related to her experience and picked up the book, which became a New York Times bestseller ([48:17-49:14]).
• Advocacy and Self-Education
  • Dr. Haver notes,

    “Millennials are like, okay, they [doctors] don’t know… I’ll educate myself.” ([53:32])

  • Both stress women now must ‘interview’ their clinicians and become CEOs of their own health ([53:17-53:58]).

Personal Transformation and Vulnerability

• Leaving a Dream Job for Purpose
  • Tamsen explains the emotional difficulty of walking away from her identity as a New York news anchor ([61:31-64:48]).
  • Quote:

    “My identity was so wrapped up in my job. Like, I was the job, like I was the anchor. That’s all Tamsen was. Like I didn’t know myself outside of that.” ([62:03-62:05])

• Ageism and Media Realities
  • She describes constant anxiety about her “shelf life” and the lack of older women in TV news ([54:43-55:53]).
• Honoring Her Mother’s Legacy
  • Not having a roadmap beyond 51 (her mom’s age at death), every day after feels like a dedication to her mother and women everywhere ([58:28-61:18]).

Building Community and Looking Ahead

• Women Supporting Women
  • Tamsen and Mary Claire stress the unparalleled strength and support in the menopause community ([68:44-69:10]).
• Advice for Women Who Feel Lost
  • 1. Find a provider who takes your symptoms seriously
  • 2. Don’t stop seeking answers; put your health first every day ([69:33-70:42]).
• Living an “unPAUSED” Life
  • Both women embrace travel, spontaneity, purpose, and the freedom that midlife brings ([70:44-71:09]).
  • Quote:

    “I am hopeful that for all the remaining years that I’m here, that it helps, you know, other women that are coming up through this. I do feel a very deep service to her… to do this next part right.” (Tamsen, [61:18])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Every time I put the patch on for a year or two, I was scared.”
  — Tamsen Fadal ([18:02])
• “If I’m not talking about it, who’s going to?”
  — Tamsen Fadal ([21:42])
• “Our only intention as journalists is to shed light, and that’s what we did.”
  — Tamsen Fadal ([36:41])
• “Millennials are like… ‘I’ll educate myself.’”
  — Dr. Mary Claire Haver ([53:32])
• “My identity was so wrapped up in my job… I didn’t know myself outside of that.”
  — Tamsen Fadal ([62:03])
• “Lighting a candle is not going to… resuscitate your ovaries.”
  — Tamsen Fadal ([70:42])
• “Menopause often feels like… it’s time to hit pause. What are you doing to focus on unpausing?”
  — Dr. Mary Claire Haver ([70:44])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:18 – Tamsen’s on-air menopause “eruption”
• 09:42 – First hearing the word “menopause” from her doctor
• 13:03 – Fear of HRT due to mother’s breast cancer
• 20:05 – Media’s role in amplifying HRT fears
• 24:17 – Menopause in the newsroom: audience reaction
• 32:19 – Getting the documentary produced and its impact
• 46:01 – Pitching and writing “How to Menopause”
• 54:43 – On ageism and the realities for women in media
• 61:18 – Honoring her mother, finding purpose after loss
• 69:33 – Advice for women who feel lost in menopause
• 70:44 – How Tamsen is “unpausing” midlife

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Tone and Style

• Candid: Both speakers share unfiltered accounts, validating women’s unspoken struggles.
• Empowering: Emphasis on self-advocacy, building community, and breaking generational silence.
• Hopeful: Acknowledges systemic gaps but celebrates positive change and the power of women supporting women.

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Further Resources

• Tamsen’s Book: How to Menopause (New York Times Best Seller)
• Documentary: “Shredding the Silence” (PBS), with upcoming “Before the Pause”
• Tamsen Fadal online: Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn @tamsenfadal
• Dr. Mary Claire Haver online: Instagram @maryclaire, thepauselife.com

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This episode is essential listening for anyone navigating menopause — or who loves someone who is. It’s an inspiring reminder that the second half of life can be a time not just to survive, but to thrive and lead.

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Transcript

[A]

This episode is presented by MIDI Health. Be sure to stick around for a MIDI pause. Presented by MIDI Health. This is where I'll take a moment to discuss some of the hottest topics in women's health as I partner with MITI to bring women the care they deserve. Perimenopause periods, Postpartum bladder leaks. These are things millions of women deal with every single day. But we don't always talk about them openly and and it's time we do. That's where Saltwear comes in. Salt makes high performance leak proof underwear that actually works. Their patented Gusset technology is a thin, soft and discreet but powerful, wicking away moisture and controlling odor naturally. Whether you're managing your period or those unexpected bladder leaks that can come with perimenopause or postpartum recovery, Salt keeps you feeling dry, confident and comfortable. It feels just like your favorite underwear, only smarter. And because each pair is reusable, you're replacing hundreds of disposable pads or liners over time, which is better for your body, your wallet and the planet. Salt is also a certified B Corp, meaning they meet the highest standards for social and environmental responsibility. They're on a mission to end global period poverty, and so far They've helped over 150,000 women and girls worldwide, providing products and funding that's translated to 1.3 million days of school. So if you're ready to feel supported and confident through every stage, use code [e-mail] for 20% off your next order. That's S A-L-T.com and use code unpause20 for 20% off your order. You're on TV documentary, book publishing. Which of those felt the most vulnerable for you?

[B]

That's a great question because you're a.

[A]

Journalist, you've been on TV forever, but you're talking about a taboo subject.

[B]

You know, but I told other people's stories on tv. I didn't tell my own. And so I think that's a, that was a big difference for me of like the, that it came back to my story. So when I first went on social, you know, I mean, I've told you this, I went to TikTok first because I was like, I know a lot of people on Instagram and I don't know if I want to have them hear me talk about this subject because I don't know what their opinion is going to be on me. That's how ingrained it was in my brain of like the ageism. Because, you know, I grew up in.

[A]

TV and there's a shelf life, right?

[B]

There's a shelf life, baby.

[A]

There's no Driving Miss Daisy in journalism.

[B]

No. No.

[A]

The views and opinions expressed on Unpause are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. When I first met our next guest, Emmy Award winning journalist and advocate Tamsen Fadal, we were at a menopause conference. Actually my very first menopause conference, where I was on a panel she was moderating. And as you've heard me say, that day was life changing for me. I met so many people who continue to be important parts of my world and several of them you'll hear on this podcast, including Naomi Watts, Dr. Sharon Malone, Dr. Carol Tavris, and Dr. Avrim Blooming. In the lead up to the event, Tamsen and I exchanged emails, just ideas flowing back and forth, and I felt an immediate connection. When we finally met in person on the day of the conference, I knew she was someone really special right away. At the time, she was already a well known broadcaster and she shared a powerful, very personal menopause story that really resonated with me. She was also in the middle of writing what would go on to be her New York Times bestselling book, how to Menopause. From that moment on, I fell in love with her. Since then, we've shared multiple stages together and navigated this menopause space as a pair. I had the privilege of being featured in her documentary the Shredding the Silence on Menopause as well as in her book. What I've come to know about Tamsen is this. She's loyal and generous and she's one of the fiercest champions for women in midlife that I know. I'm so excited to sit down with her today and talk about her journey, her advocacy, and the work she's doing to change the conversation around menopause. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist and certified menopause practitioner. I'm also an adjunct professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Welcome to Unpaused, the podcast where we cut through the silence and talk about what it really takes for women to thrive and in the second half of life. Tamsen, welcome to Unpause.

[B]

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

[A]

So for those of you out there listening, I want you to tell them your menopause story. Because that, to me is one of the best things about our relationship is you telling me being about being on air and what happened to you.

[B]

Yeah. And I didn't even know it was a menopause story at the time, which is the crazy part of it. So I was a news anchor for 30 years, and I had been having some issues over time with all sorts of. That I later learned were symptoms of menopause. But the one in particular was a brain fog. And I didn't have a word for it. I just knew that I'd look at the teleprompter, which you'd read every night, which I did for 30 years. I'd look at words and I'd be like, I know that word, but oh my gosh, I can't think of it. And I would just panic and then skip the word. So if you were listening too closely, you'd be like, what did she just say? Like, that didn't make any sense. But this one particular night, it was November of 2019, and I remember it very well because I'd never left a live broadcast and not finished it. In this particular night that happened, we were. I was feeling a little off at the beginning of the show. There had been a word on the teleprompter subpoena that I knew and didn't know and I skipped it. And I was just feeling like, not myself in the middle of the commercial break. We were. We were just going into the business report. And I just remember it because when you. You do the newscast, you remember, like, what you're going to do in each section of the hour. And we were in a commercial break, and all of a sudden I got this. This feeling like. Of eruption of heat that went everywhere. Like, my boobs got sweat, my underarms got sweat, my hair got sweat. And then my heart was racing out of control and I thought, like, I don't know if I'm gonna fall over, throw up, faint. I don't know what's happening. I just. I need to get off the set. So I said out loud into a studio of all men, if I fall over, someone catch me. Half jokingly, half like, I don't really know what to do, but I gotta finish the show. And one of the. My co anchors said, I think you need to get off the set. He said that I was like, sweaty. Like, I'd broke out sweaty and like pale. So he brought me to the bathroom and I just laid down on the bathroom floor and just tried to cool off the coal tile. Like, my head pressed. I'm like, I was staring at the bottom of the toilet, you know, where, like, you see the bottom of the toilet, And I'm like, what? Am I in my right mind, would never have done that in a dress. About 15, 20 minutes later, I got up and I was like, I think I'm okay, but what the hell? What was that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that moved me into the next stage. I think I need to figure out if there's something going on with me. I don't know what's happening. And that set me into motion of going one doctor to another doctor, figuring it out. I had my therapist say that it was stress. I got Lexapro, you know, anxiety.

[A]

So that. That first time happened, were you starting to have similar situations happen or this is all from that. That one.

[B]

That was my big moment of, like, what's going on with me? But what had been happening, and this had been leading up to this for over a year. I was having massive blee. So I'd bleed for a month, and then nothing for three months. And then I'd bleed for like a month. Crazy and nothing. And I didn't know what was going on. I had endometrium polyps, so they'd say, like, oh, it's your polyps. It's okay. Never. I got polyps removed. I have fibroids. No one ever said perimenopause. None in any of the rooms I'd ever been in, ever. And so when I look back at that, that's. I think the shocking part to me is that everybody had the opportunity. It wasn't like I was doing these one off visits to the gyno, and, you know, maybe they didn't know what was going on. And the other symptoms were, like, sleep. And I'd had those for a few, you know, years leading up to that. But this scared me in a big way. And that was my not aha moment, but my, you know, oh, my gosh moment of what's happening with me.

[A]

How was this playing out in your relationships, getting this diagnosis of stress and anxiety?

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, I had gone through a divorce years earlier, and I had hair falling out all over the floor, and I had weight loss, then tons of weight gain, and then not sleeping. And. And so, you know, I think that I went to a couple of different places. This relationship that I was in was with Ira, who I'm. I'm married to now. And it was scary because there was, like, anxiety and there was frustration and there Was a lot of moodiness, and I had dark, dark days, and I didn't know what they were from. And I'm like, is it my relationship? Is it my job? Is it my not knowing what I'm doing? Like, what was going on? So I think that, you know, lucky for me, he was very patient through a lot of the roller coaster. Because there was a lot of the roller coaster. There was times even, you know, when I was still getting my. My period, I'm like, am I pregnant? What's going on? You know, what. What is happening? Or if I wasn't getting it for three months, you know, am I pregnant?

[A]

Am I pregnant?

[B]

It was. There are some weird things that happened during that time that I think we have definitely done such. And you know this better than anybody. A disservice to women who just feel confused.

[A]

When did someone first say the word perimenopause or menopause?

[B]

Yeah, it was menopause. That's what they said. I went to those doctors after this, and I finally went to an OB that did my blood work. Like, I went to a full blood work panel, and I got a note in my patient portal that was typed out, and it said, in menopause. Any questions? The doctor's signature, you know, his name? And I went, how could I be a menopause?

[A]

What?

[B]

Like, I'm in my 40s still. Like, I can't be a menopause. But I had no idea that I was pretty not far from the average age in the US of menopause. And that was the first time I heard the word. And I actually called the office, and I was like, this says I'm in menopause. Am I in menopause? Like, I can't. Are you telling me I can't have children? What's going on? And I had already made the decision. I wasn't having children. But that is very emotional. It is emotional, even if you've made.

[A]

That decision, especially when it's not on your radar.

[B]

Radar. It wasn't in my universe. It wasn't in my universe, menopause. And I think I've had a mix of a lot of emotions, like, am I old? Is it over? Am I unsexy? Am I gonna have sex anymore? And then I was like, what? How did this happen without me knowing? But I still didn't understand. Perimenopause had been all those years. And that, looking back, was really the confusing part.

[A]

So let's go back to your diagnosis of someone trying to hand you antidepressants.

[B]

To Help did hand me Lexapro.

[A]

Yeah, Lexapro. They, you know, SSRIs, they're in the category of this serotonin reuptake inhibitor. And there is some data that says not Lexapro specifically, but they can help with hot Flash. So a lot of women, if they're listening your doctors, because of this lack of training, which we'll get into in a minute, you know, that is one of the drugs that is quite often recommended. Actually, you're five times more likely to be recommended an antidepressant for your hot flashes than the gold standard of hormone therapy. When did hormone therapy become in your vocabulary?

[B]

Well, so I. I got that diagnosis from that doctor, and I was like, any questions? Like, how about any. What am I? What. What does this mean? Like. Because I really didn't know. I didn't even think about symptoms. Did you Google it? I just didn't. Of course I did. And then I'm like. And, you know, back then, I'm. Back then. You know, back then, five, six years, whatever it was now, there was a lot of medical stuff, and there was a lot of, like, not fun pictures at all. Right.

[A]

Like, Golden Girls right now.

[B]

Right. It was awful. And I'm like, this is it. This is it. Um, and then I realized I started looking at some of the symptoms, and I came across that number back then that was. I think it was like 1 billion women. It didn't even have 1.1 at that point. It said, 1 billion women will be in menopause by the year 2025. I remember that. And I went, what? How is that possible? And that's sort of how it started. But what I did also do is I went back. I kept paper files for a very long time of all my medical stuff. And I went back and I found something from an endocrinologist years before, for my blood work that I'd done. And it said, complaining of weight gain, not sleeping. That was it. No one had said perimenopause. Then it was like a written out, you know, I guess when you write it out, and I had the copy of it, and I thought, wow, I've been dealing with this for a long time, and I had no idea. So I look at the symptoms, and I'm like, oh, my God, I had that. I had that, I had that. I had that. And here's where I am now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But hormone therapy, you know, is scary to me.

[A]

Yeah. Well, let's talk about your mom. We're gonna go there. Yeah. If you're okay with It.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

So your mom didn't get a chance to go through menopause?

[B]

Well, I don't even know what she did. You know, that's the unbelievable part. She was diagnosed with breast cancer at 44. So she had a mastectomy, and then she had a reoccurrence, and so she had another mastectomy. So I was. When she was 44, I was 14 years old. Then she had another mastectomy, and she went through radiation. She went through gold seed implants where they implant gold seed for radiation, for radiation. She went through chemotherapy, like, maybe two, maybe more times. And I remembered it once I started understanding more about menopause. I didn't even know there was a medical or surgical menopause. But I remember we would go to Lake George or any restaurant, but we would go to Lake George in the summertime time, and she would walk into a restaurant, and she would be pouring sweat, and she'd be like, I can't stand here. I'm too. I can't. I can't. It's just too. I'm too hot. I'm uncomfortable. She'd be throwing water on herself to, like, cool herself off. She was gaining weight. She had a stomach. And where. Where we'd be like, oh, my gosh, you're. You know, you're getting fat. I. Now, I had no idea what she was going through. I had no idea. And I got really sad, like, a few years ago, and I went, oh, my God. She was. When we use the word suffering, like, she didn't talk to anybody about it. I don't even know if she knew. Marie, Clara, I don't even know if she knew.

[A]

Probably not that she was in that back then. And if you dare complain, well, you're lucky to be alive.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure, you know, that's what she's.

[A]

Kind of the response a lot of survivors hear is you're complaining about sweating and vaginal dryness. You're not dead, you know, you're not allowed to, like, live your fullest life possible.

[B]

You should be happy you're going through that and you're still here. And it's funny, you know, my dad's 85 years old. You know, I talk about him a lot. We were sitting in his apartment in Florida about a year and a half ago, and he, you know, I was writing the book and, you know, doing the documentary I made. My poor father read my. My manuscript, you know, poor guy. Like, 11 chapters of what he said. I was thinking, do you think Your mom went through all this. Do you think that's why she was feeling like she did all the time? And I said, did she ever mention it to you? I don't know. And he said, I never heard the word from her. Isn't that unbelievable? Yeah. And this is all these years later, like, years later.

[A]

Yeah. He's reading it. I'm sure he's putting two and two together.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

And saying, wait a minute. That was probably what she was dealing with. And, you know, chemotherapy, all of the treatments she went through and probably took. Her ovaries took a hit, I'm sure. And we weren't probably using some of the, you know, estrogen blockers like we are now at the time, which really kind of ramp up. Now you're in chemical menopause from the estrogen blockers with some of the modern treatments. So. Yeah. That's amazing. Your dad was like, huh?

[B]

It was a moment for both of us where we were like, okay. And I said, it makes me really sad. He goes, yeah, it makes me sad too. It's one of those things, you know, I'll never know. I assume. I assume that that's what she went through was a medical, menopause, surgical. And she went through so much, though, with breast cancer. And so when I heard hormone therapy, all I knew in the back of my head, yeah, was estrogen's bad. Don't have anything to do with estrogen because your mom had breast cancer, right? I've gone through the BRCA test. I've done all. I mean, I've had many things since I was 35, 34, actually. Of course, 10 years, you know, before your mom is diagnosed. So I had a constant fear in my. My mind about this. Over fear.

[A]

What made you change your mind?

[B]

I gone to several doctors. I was prescribed hormone therapy. One, the one doctor had pulled out a little calculator and she's like, let me see if you are okay to do it. And I'm like, you're testing whether I can do hormone therapy on a calculator?

[A]

Like, what?

[B]

That doesn't seem, you know. And I guess there's a score. There's a score. And she called my general practitioner. You think it's okay if I put her in? I'm like, I'm out of here. Like, if you don't know, then I don't know. Obviously. I started doing research. I'm a journalist, and I'm like, I have to figure out what's going on. I feel all. I was a mess for a long Time and the brain fog was the worst. It was very hard for me at work. You know, I have no confidence. No confidence. No confidence to ad lib and talk. No confidence to retain information. When you sit down in front of the cameras there, you don't ever know what's gonna go on. So you could be talking without a teleprompter for an hour, you know, on the news, you could just stop.

[A]

But you have to keep going.

[B]

Yes. Or there's a breaking news story and you have to remember what's going on. And I had none of that confidence. So I was suffering there. And so I did have this conversation about hormone therapy. And it took me about a year and a half or two years before I was convinced that, like, I would do it. And I. I would fill the prescription, get the patches, get the progesterone. The progesterone would sit in my closet and, like, it would be there forever. And then finally I talked to a doctor that was a certified menopause practitioner. And we really walked through, like, here's what this is. Here's what's going on. Here's what it can do to help you. You know, we're not talking about, you know, trying to make your skin younger or feel these are real things that you are dealing with right now that could potentially help. And you need to get sleep. And that was the big one. I was on the couch every night for, like, months trying to fall asleep.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I started hormone therapy. And I will be honest that every time I put the patch on for a year or two, I was scared. What am I doing? Yeah, of course I was scared.

[A]

Do you know, I did not know about the Women's Health initiative and all the walk backs. I just knew the headlines. I knew what the guidelines said, you know, lowest dose for the shortest time possible. I didn't even know the menopause society existed.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That was not on my.

[B]

When did you realize that? When did. Was this when we all started talking?

[A]

My first menopause conference with you? When I heard Sharon, oh, my gosh.

[B]

That just gave me such chills.

[A]

And Carol speaking. And I sat in that audience in la, in Santa Monica and cried. I wasn't like, sobbing hysterically, but I sat there and I thought, how did I not know this? You know? And I was just talking about weight gain and menopause at the time. This was Galison diet days. This is how far I've come in this evolution, you know? And I learned more that day. Between them and Lisa Moscone, I'll never forget that day. I thought, I'm the expert. I'm board certified. I recertify every year. And no one has talked to me about this. And suddenly. And I was on hrt, reluctantly. But I thought, I cannot live with all these symptoms. I'm just gonna take the gamble in if I get cancer, I get it. Cause I have a huge. You know, I've lost two brothers to cancer.

[B]

I know you have. So I think you and I have a lot of that shared life experience. Right. Of fear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it hangs over your head, like, every day. I mean. I mean, I don't know about you, but I. It's there. It's always there. Right.

[A]

It's built into the system. And even now, I have a patient who's higher risk or has family history. And as I'm counseling, I have to put that 20 years of training, like, in a closet so I can talk about the modern studies. But I get it that, you know, it's just built into everything you've learned, everything you've heard. And then you hear the new information, and you're like, oh, my God, this is amazing. And I'm gonna give hormone therapy.

[B]

I'm telling you, I put the patch, and I'd be like this. As I was rubbing it on, you know, as I was like, you're doing.

[A]

Something selfish for yourself.

[B]

Like, I was doing something selfish, and I'm taking a chance. And that is. That is where we have to get away from. And, you know, it's funny as a journalist, because those headlines and the media did a lot of that disservice. Right. I think in the back of my mind, it was a.

[A]

It was. It was viral before there was viral.

[B]

Right. You know, it was everywhere.

[A]

It was selling newspapers, it was selling magazine, it was Time magazine was selling because of this story.

[B]

When we did the documentary, I didn't understand the. The depth and, like, the tentacles that had the intent, you know, where it went, how, How. How it infiltra the system. Like that study, it was just so awful. And it wasn't just anybody. It was everything together. It was the media, it was the headlines. It was a press conference. It was how it was presented. It was all that. And so I think as a journalist, I kept going, how do I play my part to undo that message? Because I'm a real woman. I'm not a doctor, I'm a real woman that I understand that fear. And the media was part of it. And I'm part of the media. Yeah. And so I think that that's where I have felt I stand in this. And I couldn't stop talking about it. I would sit on that news set at night after I realized all this, and I'm like, okay, I've got to talk about this. I was so not focused on anything except this message, because I could not believe. I could not believe what this has done to women. And my mom, I think about.

[A]

So you've said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you didn't say the word menopause on air for 30 years.

[B]

No, we didn't talk about this.

[A]

I mean, how many health stories had you done?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. We did. So we used to do health segments. You know, like, it would be a.

[A]

Health segment awareness month all the time.

[B]

My. My face is on every billboard for breast cancer awareness because of my mom. And to raise money and make sure we were talking about it. And then we do whatever months it was. We did diet stories, we did cholesterol stories, we did nutrition stories. We did anything, you know, blood pressure stories, whatever. Alzheimer's. We never talked about menopause. And when I started to bring it to the forefront. Cause I was at that point anchoring five hours of newscasts every day. So I had 25 hours on live television to be able to talk. I'm like, let's do a story about menopause. And they'd go, stop with the menopause. Like, let's stop. And that was scary to do because I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm aging myself out fast. But then I realized, oh, my gosh, if I'm not talking about it, who's going to. As I started pushing it into every news, every way I could find, I'm like, but we can also do this story. And also do. You know. And then my algorithm changed, so all I was getting was menopause.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I pushed it and pushed it, and, you know, I brought us on television and did a lot of different things because I really believe if people. Wherever we can reach people, we have to reach people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's one of the places.

[A]

Do you think it surprised your bosses in the network how much? Because these stories hit hard. Like, women were into it. They're like, whoa. Someone said. That's what happened with me. You know, someone said the word menopause on air, and instead of, like, their eyes rolling back, I think women were, like, leaning in to the conversation.

[B]

Oh, 100%. So when I first brought it on, I think there was. There was all the eye rolling. Right. And then I Remember, I sat down with Elizabeth Vargas, who had come from ABC and was working at the network where I was at, and I said, we need to do this story. And she was like, explain to me, explain this to me. I get into the news business at like in 1994. I used to sit in the edit bay and just stare at her. I used to just stare at Elizabeth and be like, I want to be her one day. She is, she's everything, you know, she was just like my idol. And now she's working at the network where I am. So it's like, it's. It was like this full circle moment. And I went to her and I said, we need to talk about this. Like, we've, We've got to talk about this. I've got to tell you, I've got to show you these people. I've got to show you these doctors and show you the study. And we put, we. I sat down, I was like, I need your help to go in there and like, really make this a bigger, bigger thing. And she did, and we sat there together. But we pushed, we took both of us to push that story to the network.

[A]

And what was the reception like once you got on air?

[B]

Well, we were like, let's do a three part to five part series. We were really going all in. And the documentary had not come out yet. I was starting to interview all of you for the documentary, but it had not come out yet. And it was like, all right, let's start here. What exactly is it? What are we doing? And we got one across the. We got one across the board. And it was a big long series. And we sat there from the beginning of it to the end of it and put it on the air. And the reaction was incredible. And I remember I walked away and one of the cameramen came running after me and he said, I think that my wife is going through some of this. Is there a way I can get ahold of you or somebody so she can talk to them? Yeah. So I went, okay. We've begun that conversation in traditional media.

[A]

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[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Do you just wake up one day and like I'm gonna make a documentary. Like how do you even do that?

[B]

I don'. You know, it's so funny. I, well first I never asked that. It's not like I don't.

[A]

Making a documentary, right? It's not like a big money maker.

[B]

You're like, but it has more value than anything in the world, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So my husband works in the TV world and one of the people that work with him I became friendly with. And I was saying to her all the time, like, I can't believe this, all these women in menopause. And did you know this? And did you know that? And you know this? And she's like, yeah, I, I mean, I already went through that, Tamson. Like, yeah, I, yeah, I already went through that. And so I said, oh. And she goes, but there's a good friend of mine that talks to me about it like you do. And I'm so sick of talking to you about it. You guys should meet each other. And so her name is Joanne lamarca and Joanne came from the Today show. She launched Hoden and Kathy, and she was at the Today show for a very, very long time. And I got an introduction to her and I sat on the phone with her for an hour and a half the first time. And I said, we just gotta get this out there. Like, I don't know what to do. I'm in news, they don't wanna talk about it every day. And we said, what if we put something together, put a film together, something, a longer version of something together for YouTube? And she said, I think so. And I said, what if it's a doc? She's like, what if it's a doc? I said, I don't know, can we. We've never even done a documentary, you know, news. You interview somebody for 20 minutes and it's a two minute piece. Like that's how news works. So we started thinking like, we need to do this. And we went out to Times Square with our iPhones and said, let's see if there's any kind of appetite for women willing to talk about it or what they're going through. And we had masks on at the time. Everyone was wearing masks, were like, can you talk about, you know, menopause? Did you go through it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, no, I didn't go through that. I don't wanna talk about it, I don't wanna. And then one by one we probably tried to interview 30 people and maybe four of em talked to us. And I said, I don't know, maybe there's just nothing to it. But I just really, I feel like there is. She felt like there was. And we started Saying to a couple of the different doctors at that time, Sharon Malone was somebody that I knew, Dr. Sharon Malone. And I said, I'd like to talk to you. I was a little scared cause I didn't really know her very well, but I'd like to see if we could talk to you about a documentary at the time. Met the other two producers that I have from la, which is Denise Pines and Kobe Atlas. And both of them had done documentaries before. And I said, I don't know what I'm doing, but I do know that we need to do it. And they said, well, we've done documentaries and we wanted to do this one too, so let's all partner. So four women partnered together from both coasts. And we said, we're gonna figure this out. And the first interview we did was Dr. Cher Malone in my living room on her birthday. She came in and I sat down with her and we kind of like set the stage of what we didn't know. And then we said, all right, we're gonn lean in and we're gonna, we're gonna do this documentary. And we had no support, no, no money, right? Like no clarity of exactly where we were, what we were doing with it.

[A]

Where does the money come from? Did you get people going? I'm not gonna invest in this, I'm not gonna.

[B]

We had. There's no audience for it. I'm not giving you any money for this. And who wants to watch a documentary? Because you know, the documentary was at that time teamed boring. You know, there wasn't like all the cool documentaries quite yet. There was some. It was like, who wants to want a documentary about menopause? No, there's no audience, there's no place. No one wants to air it and no one wants to. And no one's giving you money for it unless my. Whatever can be in it. And we're like, that's not a documentary, we can't do that. So we pushed and pushed. We put a lot of our own money into it, we funded it, we self funded this thing on all ends of it. And then finally it started to take root. When we started put together a trailer, the trailer went insane. Then we had people step up and say, hey, you know, a couple of different nonprofits, like I will fund this because we really believe in it. And we had some people funding it, but we funded most of the first one ourselves, like from the very, very beginning put it together. And by the time we released that trailer, which was maybe September of last year, we had such an influx because, remember, it was just the four of us. We had such an influx into our inbox of people wanting to watch it, air it, see it, be part of it, whatever it was, that we had to hire people to come in and help field all these requests. And so we wound up giving it to women to view in their communities. And to date, we've had over 1,004 screenings in cities across the US and in. I think we're at 43 or 45 countries. Isn't that crazy?

[A]

So you got PBS. So you make this documentary and then you have to shop it around. Like, it doesn't just magically make its way onto your computer or whatever. What was the conversation like with pbs? Probably the biggest place you could launch a documentary for the credibility of it, too.

[B]

Like, I just felt really strongly that we needed to have that credibility factor simply because we'd had so much pushback, so much pushback of trying to do anything like this. And I also thought it was a really critical message. It was really the first of its kind of this kind of documentary at this magnitude with this time in our lives. And so I felt an immense pressure of it needing to be right place, right time, right partners. And Denise and Kobe have done a lot of different things with pbs, so they had already had the trust factor there. And so we went and they said, okay, we need to view it, though, too, you know, to. To see. And they did. And we got on for October of last year, which was the weekend of World Menopause Day weekend. That's when it aired.

[A]

It was perfect.

[B]

So it was amazing. It was amazing.

[A]

Were the. Were the producers in the. You know, were they female?

[B]

Some female? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course.

[A]

So I really feel like we have to have. We have to, you know, in this whole process of this podcast, and you may have had the same with your podcast. We always do better when there's a menopausal woman in the room, on the production team in the. You know, because you just don't get it.

[B]

When I, you know, I launched my podcast in March, but before that, it was over a year of trying to figure it out, and constantly what I heard was, you know, the podcast audience is young. Nobody's gonna wanna talk about that. So what else are you gonna talk about? And I was like, that's what we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about a lot of. But that is what we're going to talk about. There's a lot of. That conversation is going to be the root of this whole thing. Yes, women in the room. But I will say this with the documentary, even in rooms with menopausal women, there was not always the response you would expect when we went out to shop it to, to the different streamers and stuff. So I would say that it, it has now come a long way, baby. Right. But back then when we were going around doing that, it was not quite as cool. Hot.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Accepted then to say, hey, you know, because I know what it's like in the TV world to go in and say, hey, I want to do something about menopause. What? Because you feel like you're being judged as. Why would you be interested in that? And so because that, that is an industry that is very, you know, youth is very regarded. Youth is very, you know, that's what you want. It's a double fight. There's a double edged sword there.

[A]

We're gonna get to the next documentary.

[B]

Which I'm super excited about, which we were not expecting.

[A]

Not everybody was happy once it came out.

[B]

No, I will say that I was surprised because I think that when you're inside of it and a documentary is not go out, do interviews and then just edit it. A documentary is 30 to 50 plus hours of video. You know how long we were there with you or how long our crews were there with you. You know how many interviews that we had in that documentary, how many women's stories, how many different areas we wanted to cover and push into that one thing. So I'm aware going forward now, not everyone will ever be happy with everything that we talk about. But I'm not happy where we were before this. I'm not happy as a real woman that we didn't feel comfortable talking about it. I'm not happy as a real woman that my mother suffered and so many women did, you know. So we did the documentary and the, the tagline was shredding the silence on menopause. The reason for that documentary was to open the conversation. So I'm okay if not everybody's happy. Our intention as journalists and a documentary is not my opinion. A documentary is experts coming together to talk about what they're experts in. That's what that was. And real women's stories. So I would only say that I'm so damn proud of the documentary and I want thank you and I want to all voices to be heard. So I am happy to hear any pushback on anything. But at the end of the day, the most important thing to me is when a woman stops me in the street and says, I watched the documentary with 10 of my friends or with my husband or with my daughter. And I found a doctor, and it's changed my life. That's all the difference in the world, because our only intention as journalists is to shed light, and that's what we did.

[A]

So why a second documentary?

[B]

Well, that wasn't expected. You know, I was like, I love.

[A]

It, I love it.

[B]

I'm glad.

[A]

I feel like we're on this, like, path because, like, why another book about menopause, but we're talking about perimenopause.

[B]

We were not expecting to do that. In all. In all truth, like, I. I still think we're all like, wait, are we doing this? Really? Even though we're. We're in edit now, as we saw this rollout happen over the course of the past year, about six months ago, maybe a little bit more, we realized that there were so many other parts of the documentary we couldn't fit in. And one, you know, one important was, for me is talking about women that are dealing with breast cancer. And our friend Dr. Corinne men and who had breast cancer herself, treats women that are very left out of that conversation. Another part that has been left out is really understanding how, you know, we talked about the timeline in the first one, but we didn't really explain everything that happened. You know, we weren't able to have conversations about hormonal households. We weren't able to have conversations about all these different things that were very, very important. And so we decided, okay, menopause is that one day, right? And everything else afterwards. But what happens before the pause? And that's what this documentary is called, before the pause. And it will lead up to menopause for those younger women and for any, you know, not even younger women, just women that don't understand. Like, I didn't. I never heard the word perimenopause. And I want to make sure they do.

[A]

So what is a hormonal household for our listeners who may not know what that is? I know what it is.

[B]

So hormonal household is when you've got, like, a young, you know, a young one, a teenager, a, you know, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, going through their hormonal journey. And then you've got mom that's probably at the same time experiencing perimenopausal symptoms in menopause and having those two. And I don't wanna ever say collide, but live under the same roof and dealing with that, because there's a lot that goes there. And I. At first I thought it was like a little catchphrase that was cute. And then I realized it's a real thing. And especially as women are having children a little bit later sometimes, or just realizing this a little bit earlier, it was really important for us to include.

[A]

I'm finding that the millennials are way more open to this conversation. It's like Gen X kicked the door in and started the conversation. And these younger women coming through are like, okay, what do I need to know to get ready? How do I need to prepare myself? They don't wanna hide it. There's no shame. Like, this is inevitable. This is a natural part of life. But I don't wanna go into this blindsided. So what I'm seeing is millennials are a lot more accepting of what's coming. They're curious. There's no shame. They wanna learn more. They're asking to be a part of.

[B]

The conversation, and I'm encouraged by that. Like, I love the fact that millennials are like, tell me what's going on. Tell me what I need to know. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna go through this. And so I do. I agree with you. Gen X kicked open the door. Millennials are like, here we are. And now we're going to use that information to be better longer. And I think that's. It's incredible because I. I think back to my. You know, when I was 30s, I wasn't thinking about. I didn't even know the word perimenopause.

[A]

I was taking. I was a medical expert, and I was like, oh, menopause. Literally. I was like, oh, menopausal patient. No. And that's just bias and paternalism and how I trained in my own ageism. And now I'm like, yay. It's all I do now. And it's like, the best part of my medical practice ever is that, you know, taking care of these women.

[B]

Well, there's such an appreciation, too, because I think that these women have been overlooked, dismissed, thought, felt invisible themselves. And the truth of the matter is, is that that is very much not what's going on. And they've not been given an opportunity to be able to be seen, feel better, not have to beg for help. And so I'm so happy for all of us. And then I'm really happy for millennials who walk in and say, like, hey, I'm gonna probably fix most of it myself outside the doctor's office. Maybe I need to go to you and get my hormone therapy or some other form of treatment. But I'm gonna be okay. This isn't gonna define me. And I think that that's exciting. Cause then when we get to the next generation, what does that mean for them? Yeah. So when I look at what we've done so far with the first documentary, Shredding the silence with now before the pause, I can't wait to see the reaction to that because I think it's going to just make that change even quicker, even faster. And with, you know, books that we have out there, when we have films out there, we have celebrities talking about it, many of our friends talking about it, incredible doctors like yourself talking about it. There's no way that this conversation, it's not a trend, it's not a moment, it's not a, you know, it's not a fleeting, you know, thought in anybody's mind. And hopefully we get to a place where it doesn't have to be a thing, that it's a part of our lives.

[A]

Right? And nothing to be ashamed of or to hide.

[B]

Oh my gosh. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[A]

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[B]

Another idea in the shower.

[A]

Because you've written books before.

[B]

I have.

[A]

You've had bestsellers before. So did you go to your agent? Cause now this is. Cause they were on matchmaking and divorce.

[B]

Dating.

[A]

Yeah. So this is. What was that like? That conversation with your agent, I guess, was first.

[B]

Well, it's funny. I had gone to the original agent I had, and she's like, I don't think that there's gonna be an audience for this book. And I said, okay, I think I need to find an agent that believes that there is.

[A]

I got pushback, too. So I had done Galveston diet, and it had done very well. But immediately, the minute the manuscript was in, I was letting my friends read it and getting the reaction. I talked a lot about menopause in the Galveston Diet, and that was what? Not how much protein you need or how many hours you need to work out a week. Everyone was like, this menopause part, like, more, more, more. And so I go to my agent. My agent was in from the beginning.

[B]

The editors were kind of like, oh, gosh, me too. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there was the wisdom of menopause. And Menopause Manifesto. But, you know, do you really feel. I'm like, I'm telling you what people are asking me. I'm in my DMs. I know exactly what people want, and they are begging for this information. But did you get pushback?

[B]

Massive pushback. And I. It's interesting. I struggle with my title. Remember that I said to you, I am struggling now because the original title I went in there with to pitch. Because when you go to write a book, as we know, you have to go in there and you have to present your case, essentially, and say, here's what the book should be. Here's your proposal. Here's what the book should be. Here's why it should be. Here's the audience. And I promise you, a lot of people are gonna help me say they love it. And so I went in with one, because I'm like, what is a journalist doing writing a medical book? But it wasn't a medical book. It was a guide with all of these expert voices coming together of what a real woman didn't know. It wasn't me as a medical expert. It was me bringing together all the people that I had learned from, including yourself, to say, look, these are the people to listen to. These are the voices. This is how I got to feel better, know myself, you know, move on to the. To be able to talk about it. So it was originally called Menno Talk. That was the book. Cause it was like menopause conversations. I went in there, and my first agent was like. And so I talked to another agent, and she said, you know, I'm going through this right now, and I want to sell this book. I want to see if there's an audience for it. And we got down to going out there, and you go to the different publishers and two came back and said, we think there's an audience for this. Cause we're both going through it. And that was the reason that it was picked up. Because to your point earlier, menopausal women going, I need more. Now. One said to me, like, I haven't had sex, and I don't know how long. And the other one was like, I think I'm going through this. I can't. I'm reading all these. When are you gonna finish writing it? Cause, you know, just write one chapter and an outline. And so my pressure was, I did 42 interviews with, you know, 42 different experts. And I think even more. But like, that those were the big interviews and really used what I had done my whole life with this interview is to try to pull it together and simplify. I was like, I don't know, we just need a how to book. And that's how I came up with how to Monopolize. How to Monopolize. Finally, like, literally, I was, I was under pressure to get a title done because I think I saw you right before it was due and I said, I still don't have a title for this book. And I think it's Finally. Thank you. I finally had, you know, under pressure, but it wound up being the right title for the book.

[A]

And it was a New York Times bestseller.

[B]

It was. When was yours out? It was a year, and then mine was the next March, a year later. And I said to you, what did you do the day that you were gonna find out what was going on with the New York Times?

[A]

I went to Mexico. I told my husband, I don't wanna be in the country. I was so nervous.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And because we hadn't made the list with Galveston Diet, I didn't understand at the time with Galveston Diet how it worked. I just thought if you sell X amount of books and you outsell everybody else, you'll make a list. And I didn't realize that the New York Times bestseller list is editorialized, meaning you have to sell a certain amount to be considered. But they decide which books. And for whatever reason, Galveston Diet didn't make it. I look back and I just kind of laugh. I'm a straight A student. I remember I passed everything. I was blindsided. I did not know that could happen. And you know, you tell Marie Claire, sell, you know, a thousand books, I'll sell 2,000.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, I was in Boston doing press at a local Boston affiliate for I think NBC, one of the first, besides you, one of the first TV stations that had asked me to come and speak. And I was all excited. And then that night, that afternoon, the list was coming out and it just kind of seemed inevitable that, you know, we had sold a lot of books and whatever. And then my agent called me and said we didn't make it. And I couldn't even process what that meant. And I went back to the hotel and we crashed the minibar. And I remember drinking these pre made Bloody Marys or something, something out of the fridge.

[B]

And then.

[A]

And I think I cried on social media about it.

[B]

You did. I remember, you know, I did an Instagram live with you and I was. And that was when we, I think we had already been together in la. And then I did the Instagram live with you.

[A]

On the book.

[B]

Cause the book was, was it had just come out or it was gonna come out, I can't remember. We were, you know, we were full court. We were like together quite a bit there. And so I remember doing the Instagram and then I remember seeing your video and I was like, how is that possible? Like that's crazy. It's editorial.

[A]

So the whole push for the next book for the new menopause. I was like, I don't want to hear about the list. Because everything when you're as you know, everything's like the list, the list, the list.

[B]

We have to do this.

[A]

And I was like, I'm not doing it. I don't want to hear it. You say it. And I'm leaving. I'm going to not publish the book. And they're like, you know, so. Because pre sales were going incredibly well and we had sold well, you definitely 80,000 books by the time you know. And so I told my husband, I don't want to be in the country when the list comes out. I don't care. I turned off my phone. We went to Mexico. We were sitting in Playa del Carmen on a beach at an all inclusive, drinking margaritas and just meeting people in the pool and chatting and having fun. And then my friend Kim Holderness from the Holderness family, our books came out the same day, I remember. And she texted me and I checked my phone. Cause it was Kim. And she's like, girl, did you see? And so it was so sweet. That's a cool way to get it. Day one, number two. And I had to have it and to hit number one. And I just, I have chills thinking about it, you know. And then all of a sudden like I was like, tell the world. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So excited.

[B]

I took your advice because you told me what you had done. And I was like, what am I going to do? I can't go to Mexico. Like, I don't know. I mean we were. Cause remember we were in the middle of like all the other stuff we were still doing Doc. And so I went to la. I went to the Ivy, the restaurant there where I'm like, the Ivy makes me happy. I'm going to get some champagne. I'm just going to sit there and put. My team was with me and they lied to me about what time it came out. So they were like, oh, it's not gonna be till like 5 o' clock today. And I go, really? We gotta wait that long? And I'm like, I'm sitting there and we like Ate french fries. Like I was like self soothing just in case. Oh, we gotta call. Hold on, we'll be right back. And one of em. And then they came back and they put it on speaker.

[A]

They videoed it.

[B]

They videoed it. They videoed it. I think they put it on speaker or they had called, they had them call my phone and I picked it up and they videoed it and I was like, oh my gosh. Cause I had never. And the New York Times to me is like such like, you know, I've grown up in New York. It's just like the, you know, I'm not a doctor and so I never, I never even, I never even thought that would be a possibility. But the special part of it, I think out of everything was after that happened, getting to go around and meet all of the women that read it or talked about it or shared it. And that was really cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I had been. I went to all these different cities around the country and that was really, really super special.

[A]

I felt like menopause has spoken, but I just felt like there is no denying that menopause is important and that women wanna read about this, you know, and they're willing to educate themselves 100%.

[B]

I think that we've put that onus on women. Women. We have said to women, all of us, you need to know all this because your doctors might not. And you have to almost interview your doctors to make sure that they feel comfortable with it or ask them why they aren't. Right. And so we've given women so much responsibility that that is why that they have. They need this information, it's why they need these type of research.

[A]

And it's funny, our generation is so upset about that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, they are like, no, no, no, the doctors should know. And I'm like, listen, we weren't taught, we weren't trained, this wasn't prioritized. And we are working on that point. But it's like the millennials are like, okay, they don't know.

[B]

I don't educate myself.

[A]

And they feel like they are CEOs in their own healthcare. And I feel like our generation and forward are more used to the medical system telling them what to do. And this is a huge blind spot in medicine and that, you know, we still have to continue the message of educate yourself, advocate for yourself, you know. And that's what I loved about your book, is that it laid out these really clear plans on how to do that.

[B]

Thank you. For themselves.

[A]

Thank you. So you're on TV documentary Book publishing. Which of those felt the most vulnerable for you?

[B]

That's a great question, because you're a.

[A]

Journalist, you've been on TV forever, but you're talking about a taboo subject.

[B]

But I told other people's stories on tv. I didn't tell my own. And so I think that was a big difference for me of that it came back to my story. So when I first went on. On social, you know, I mean, I've told you this, I went to TikTok first because I was like, I know a lot of people on Instagram, and I don't know if I want to have them hear me talk about this subject because I don't know what their opinion is going to be of me. That's how ingrained it was in my brain of, like, the ageism. Because, you know, I grew up in.

[A]

Tv and there's a shelf life, right?

[B]

There's a shelf life, baby.

[A]

There's no Driving Miss Daisy in journalism.

[B]

No, no. I remember I was in Philadelphia and there was a news anchor that was a little bit older than me. Maybe she was like a generation older than me, right? And she. When I were sitting there talking and I was kind of like, what do I need to know? I was new to the station. What should I know next? I want to be like you when I grow up. You know, that kind of thing. And she said, well, I do want you to know this, you know, that there is this shelf life for women. So when you get to be in your 40s, like, that's that, like, you know, you don't ever see an older woman sitting next to a younger man on television. You see an older man sitting next to a younger woman and she's, you know, and the guys, the distinguished guy that's been sitting there telling the news forever, and I'm like. And so I always, in the back of my mind, had that. Every time I'd put my key card up to get into the building, every time I would do the news, I'm like, oh, thank goodness they still want me here. I'm so grateful. That was my life for a very, very long time. I do want to say, when I walked away from my job as a news anchor to almost two years ago now, I was the older woman sitting next to the younger guy by about 10 years. I know. Isn't that crazy?

[A]

That's amazing. That's crazy.

[B]

But the shelf life is a very real thing and it's very sad. And I think that a lot of people feel it. And I think that a Lot of women of our generation really are aware of that, and especially the generations before that. That is a feeling that's in there. And I cannot wait for that to be gone. And I think we're chipping away at it in a very big way.

[A]

Now for a MIDI pause sponsored by MIDI Health. Let's talk about something that's keeping millions of women awake at night. Literally. The girls are not sleeping, they're not sleeping well, not sleeping long and waking up exhausted. And this is not just a part of getting older. This is a health crisis hiding in plain sight. In my clinical practice, I see it all the time. Women come in frustrated, convinced that something's wrong with them personally. But menopause related sleep disruption isn't a personal failing. It's a legitimate medical issue with real health consequences. Here's what the research shows. More than half of women in menopause experience disrupted sleep. Nearly 80% report poor sleep quality. And when night sweats strike, they can increase sleep disruption by over 80%. Hormonal changes play a big role as estrogen and progesterone decline. They disrupt systems that regulate sleep temperature and even our stress response, leaving you feeling wired but tired. Add in caregiving stress and circadian rhythm shifts, it's no wonder women are lying awake at 3am Poor sleep isn't just about fatigue. It's linked to cardiovascular disease, the number one cause of death in women, and measurable cognitive changes like memory lapses, brain fog and anxiety. But here is the good news. We can treat this. Evidence based strategies like improving sleep hygiene, managing stress with breathing techniques and ensuring adequate magnesium, L theanine and melatonin support can all help. For some women, hormone therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia makes a profound difference. Here's the bottom line. You're not imagining it and you can absolutely claim restorative sleep. Your sleep matters, your health matters and you deserve solutions that. All right, so 25 year old Tamsen.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What did she think that 54 year old Tamsen would be doing?

[B]

25 year old Tamsen didn't know if she was gonna see 54. Cause I lost my mom at 51 and I didn't have a roadmap or a thought for anything that happened after that. I just was blank. 51 was the age that she was gone. So 54 was like what? I don't know. But I do think that I always had this idea growing up, you know, retire, it's gonna get older. It's like I could never have imagined I'd be sitting here Talking about any subject like this, first of all, or be looking at being. Looking forward to the next 40 years. Right. If you tell anybody that, I think they would say, what?

[A]

Like that you would be writing books, producing documentaries? No.

[B]

Have a whole new community and group of friends in a different purpose. Right. Of life. Don't you feel like that?

[A]

Yeah. I turned 57 in August, and this is the year I survive all of my brothers. So I've lost three, so you know what I mean? And two of them were in their 50s. And so we were in Norway hiking with some good friends of ours. And it was one of the toughest hikes I've ever done in my life as far as, like, elevation change. And Norway is. I can't get straight up out of the water for 10,000ft. And so, you know, I just remember hiking that day and thinking my brothers didn't get here and they'd be so proud, you know, of everything that I was able to accomplish. But, like, me at 25, I just. At 57 or at 60, you know, that was always grandbabies, being quiet. I just saw this old lady, not anyone in full glam, you know, with fake eyelashes, doing, you know, doing a rock.

[B]

And your eyelashes look very good, by the way.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, I survived my mom at 50. So it was three years ago.

[A]

Tell me about that year, that day.

[B]

Yeah, because 50 wasn't hard for me. 50 wasn't a thing. It just kind of went through. It was also during the pandemic, so it wasn't really, but 51. I remember thinking, like, I can't believe this. Like, this was my mom. And I think at that, when I was young, that seemed like an older age, obviously. And when I think about all the stuff she went through in those younger years, starting at 44 years old, like, she battled breast cancer for a long time. And, yeah, I think I felt really sad and I felt real appreciative. And I do feel like every day is kind of a dedication to what she was not able to do. And so I'm real appreciative that I'm here. And I am hopeful that for all the remaining years that I'm here, that it helps, you know, other women that are coming up through this. I do feel a very deep service to her, you know, and all other women, but really to her to do this next part right.

[A]

So in this journey, you know, we've kind of covered what your publishers thought, what you're going to get podcasts, but talk about your community like your friends did you get pushback from any of them being like, tamsin.

[B]

Yes. Did you? I mean, I totally did. Well, they knew you were a doctor, so you were probably talking about a lot of things that they were like.

[A]

But, you know, walking away from the bread and butter, that's different. You know, I was in academic practice. I had a very nice salary. I had the respect of my entire community. I delivered literally everyone's babies. And walking away from that security, I had insurance. I had, you know, safety. I was like, if they build it, they'll come. Like, I did not know how to open a clinic. I had always been employed.

[B]

I got a book, it's guide to.

[A]

Like, opening a Medical practice. And, like, had to read all the rules and how to do it. But I just, like, something in me knew I needed to do this. But I took my girlfriends out to dinner in this big table in Galveston, and I said, I'm thinking about opening this clinic all on my own. No. No academic institution behind me, like, just hanging up a shingle and just doing menopause care. And I don't think I can afford to take insurance because, by the way, they're not going to pay you to do menopause care. And, you know, so then it's a risk of. Will women. Will women be able to afford this and come. And, like, we had a long conversation that night, but every single one of them was like, like, you have to do this.

[B]

That's amazing. You have to do this. That's what the community does for you. At first, I think that they were. They thought I was crazy talking about menopause in general. But second, I walked away from my career at a place that I had always wanted to get to. I always wanted to be a evening news anchor. I always wanted to be, you know, in that prime time spot, delivering people the news of what happened that day and what was going to happen the next day to prepare them for the next day. And. And, you know, New York is in my soul. And I love telling the stories of New York, but I knew that there was not a more important story for me to be telling than this one. And so when I made that decision, and it took me a long time, I remember Ira and I were. We were out of the country, and I walked into the bathroom, and we were, like, standing there, and I said, I think I need to go. And he's like, you need to go where? Go back home? And I said, no, I think I need to leave. And was this ridiculous? Am I like, but I can't do What I want to do and do this full time. I was doing five shows a day, A day, not a week, a day. And so he said, well, I mean, you have to prepare to do that. And I said, I know. And I needed to prepare myself, right? Because for me, I'd always worked for corporate, I've always worked for a news station. And my identity was so wrapped up in my job, like I was the job, like I was the anchor. I was. That's all Tamsen was. Like I didn't know myself outside of that. So yeah, a lot of people said, like, are you, are you sure you want to do this? Why can't you just do that on the side, have fun with that and keep doing your job. And it took me about another year. And then I made the decision. I went to the head of the network, the CEO of the company, and I said, this is what I need to do. And he said, is there any way, can we figure this out? And so they let me remove one of my shows that I was only doing four shows. And I did that for about six months and then I finally said, no, it's time for me to go. And so graciously they let me out of my contract. I had a contract. I had all this things that I'd ever wanted. I had all the things I ever wanted, but it was just so important for me to do that. And so I stepped away almost two years ago now.

[A]

Yeah, I felt that way. Like I had everything I wanted. I had gotten to what had always been my goal. Program director, you know, respected in the community, but like this menopause thing was screaming, screaming, screaming, me too. Like, this is what you need to be doing.

[B]

I was doing news and I was over here on the sideline, like the 39 symptoms of. I couldn't stop. I just couldn't stop.

[A]

So what would you go back and tell yourself now that you have all this education and knowledge, you know, to that, that 40 something year old Tamsin sitting in the chair losing her words. If you would have been the anchor sitting next to her, I would, I.

[B]

Would have, I would have been like, listen, I know what's going on with you and I don't want you to be alarmed and I want you to just hear me and not feel insulted or shamed by it. But this is what you need to go do. I would've already had a doctor ready. Here's a doctor, I just texted you the information and you need to go do this. And you know, I have done that when I have Women that are coming and working with me or on my team. I'm like, I'm not telling you this just because this is what we're talking about all the time, but I think this is what's happening. I don't feel any kind of hesitation of saying it to another woman now. And I think that that's where we have to get is not feeling scared to insult somebody or they're gonna take it the wrong way, because this is our health, and they've gotta get that help sooner rather than later.

[A]

Do you think the needle's moving, though, we're getting less resistance to this conversation?

[B]

I do in some areas.

[A]

I feel like the algorithm is just serving me this 24 7. And my husband's like, I see none of what you're talking about.

[B]

So it sends it to me 24 7, too. But I do think that it's changing, and I do think that I hear the conversation from people, you know, differently than I did before, for sure. And I'm like. Like, either they've caught it from me, or they are really seeing it, you know, differently. And so I do. I think it's a big conversation. I think that we know it's in mainstream media. I think that there's no question about that. I think that I'm. I want. I want to be careful, because when we hit this side of it, we want to be careful of people just being in the conversation, for being in the conversation. We want it to be that we're educating. We want it to be that it's helping and serving women constantly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think as long as we're doing that, then that is the right thing.

[A]

So you kicked down some doors in media. Your social media presence is huge as well.

[B]

Your social media presence is huge, my friend.

[A]

Thank you. I had no idea that was gonna happen, by the way.

[B]

I don't think any of us did. I remember.

[A]

I remember in the early days making a video and running to my kids and saying, is this being viral? What is this? How many views does it take? And just seeing the response was just overwhelming. I do think a lot of what happened on Social with me was. Was being at the right place at the right time with a real message that was resonating. Of course, I was just validating people's symptoms. I said the word frozen shoulder one day, And I got 10 million hits, you know, of course, of women, like, blowing up my DMs, like, what? So what's the next door you're gonna kick in?

[B]

We're gonna kick in the. Before, you know, before the pause door, for sure. So I feel like that's the Millennials. And see where that goes from there, because I think that's a really big one. And I'm really enjoying the podcast. I really love that because that gets me back to my journalism roots, which it allows me to combine the. That I really do love. And then I think what's exciting about this time is not knowing where it goes next. Like, I could never have predicted in the two years that we're in where I would be even right this minute. And I don't think you could either. I don't think if we go back and rewind, like, where were Tamsen and Mary Claire two years ago? We had. I mean, I think we were in Vegas at a QVC thing. We've crisscrossed the country together. We meet up in different cities, like. Like, speak on a stage and then leave and then hug each other and then get on Instagram, you know, and so I can't imagine, like, I get excited thinking, like, where am I going to be in a year?

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's amazing. It's awesome, right?

[A]

Do you feel like menopause has given you purpose?

[B]

I know it's given me purpose. I also know that the community has given me purpose, and I think that that more than anything else, has been really remarkable. And friends like you, quite frankly, you.

[A]

Know, what's the favorite part of the community?

[B]

My favorite part of the community is being picking up the phone at any moment of any time of day and be like, hey, girl, I gotta say something to you. Can you help me with this? Can you talk to me? You and I have done it to each other recently. That's my favorite part. And that validates a couple of different things, that women really do support each other, and also that we've always got somebody to lean on that really gets us. And I think I want everyone to have that.

[A]

Yeah, me too. For the women listening, there's so many out there who tell me they feel lost, that they feel like they're losing themselves. And, you know, I do. Like, you have people stopping me on the street. You've changed my life. And I feel like those women, the ones who are still struggling, they haven't found the community. They haven't found the right partner in a clinician. They haven't found, you know, what would you say to her?

[B]

Oh, gosh, tune in and stay in touch with all of us. First of all, because I do think there is something that is very sound with. With Seeing more and more people going through this. But I would say that you have to find somebody that can help you with those symptoms, because I think most of the time those come from very physical things. Right. They come from not being able to sleep, feeling like they're, you know, you're going crazy. And I know it. Bleeding and not knowing why, gaining weight, not being able to figure it out. Brain fog. Between sleep and brain fog, just those two can make you feel so lost. So I would say that's the first step. And I think the second step is really focusing on that provider. And if you have a to do list every day, put that on the top. Put that on the top. Put that on the top before anything else that you do. Because if you're not getting that help, you can't do the rest of that. And I. And I do really realize how important that is now. I think before we'd be like, oh, maybe spend some time, you know, doing this or that or, you know.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

But, like, lighting a candle is not going to help you get more sleep. Not going to resuscitate your ovaries, going to do that. And so taking charge of that is so important. And I think that that's what you have to do before anything else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anything else.

[A]

Menopause often feels like this, that society, that the world. It's time to slow down. It's time to become invisible. It's time to hit pause. What are you doing to focus on unpausing at this part of your life?

[B]

Oh, traveling more, I think being receptive to things that, like, instead of having to, oh, you have a plan. Like, got to do this, I got to do that. I go to this. I think that that is. Is a huge part of where I get my freedom and my peace right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I love it, actually.

[A]

Well, I'm so happy you came on the podcast today.

[B]

I'm so happy to be here.

[A]

I love this journey with you.

[B]

I love it with you. I really do.

[A]

I can't wait to see what you do next. I can't wait for the documentary.

[B]

I can't wait to see what you do next, my friend.

[A]

As a reminder to our audience, you can order Tamsen's book, How to Menopause on Amazon. You can also listen to Tamsen's podcast, the Tamsen Shows, wherever you get your podcast or watch it on YouTube. And of course, you can follow her AMSinfidelle on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and LinkedIn. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind, you can find me on Instagram rmaryclaire and get honest and accurate information on health, fitness, and navigating [e-mail] if you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube at. Dr. Maryclaire Unpaused is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with Pod People. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on Un Paused are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.