unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Sally Wainwright on Riot Women, Identity Theft of Menopause, and Writing Real Female Characters

Air Date: January 17, 2026
Guest: Sally Wainwright (acclaimed British television writer/producer: Happy Valley, Gentleman Jack, Last Tango in Halifax, Riot Women)
Host: Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Episode Overview

This episode features a compelling conversation between Dr. Mary Claire Haver and esteemed writer/producer Sally Wainwright, delving into the genesis and impact of Wainwright’s latest project, Riot Women, a BBC/BritBox drama about five midlife women who start a rock band as an escape from the compounding stresses of caregiving, menopause, and feeling invisible. The discussion confronts head-on the realities of midlife womanhood, the underrepresentation of real female experiences in TV, and the often-overlooked struggles and triumphs of menopause.

Key Discussion Points

Sally Wainwright’s Journey to Storytelling

• Origins and Writing Roots

  • Born and raised in West Yorkshire (Huddersfield, Halifax); University at York.
  • Always writing—stories, cartoons, plays, with her sister since childhood.

  “I just never stopped. I just literally never stopped.” – Sally Wainwright (04:20)

  • Studied English literature; obsessed with dialogue from a young age.

  “I realised I was a sort of dramatist without even realising I was.” – Sally (04:57)

• Early Career, Unusual Day Jobs, and Breaking In

  • Moved to London to become a writer; worked as a bus driver for flexibility and inspiration.

  “Three years at university didn’t teach me very much. Whereas 18 months as a bus driver... really, you had to grow up.” – Sally (05:44)

  • First break: agent discovered her play, got her writing for radio soap The Archers, then Coronation Street, EastEnders, and her own acclaimed dramas.

The Making of Riot Women

• Personal Inspiration and Autobiographical Roots

  • The story began 10 years prior, rooted in her own experiences: late-onset menopause, caring for a mother with dementia 200 miles away, raising teenage sons, a struggling marriage, and mounting work pressures.

  “I started to feel that I was disappearing. It’s like everybody needed a piece of me... In the middle of that, I started to kick back a bit and be quite angry... starting to get quite low moods. Brain fog.” – Sally (12:07)

  • Writing as therapy: “The character of Beth... is as sort of autobiographical as I’ve ever been.” – Sally (13:38)

• Tapping Into the Midlife Female Experience

  • Menopause is present but not the focal point: “It wasn’t the star of the show... it’s an aspect of what these women are dealing with, but really it’s about everything women deal with when you get to a certain part of your life.” – Sally (10:54)

  • “Identity theft” of menopause: When menopause hits, you feel you’ve finally arrived at confidence in your 40s, only to have doubts, brain fog, and loss of joy return.

    “It was like you do become a diff—you feel like you’re not the person you thought you were.” – Sally (25:19)

• Purpose of the Show

  • To show multidimensional women living through real complexities: “Women on TV are so poorly represented. They’re often impossibly glamorous, stick thin, usually under 30... That’s what we normally get as role models for women.” – Sally (16:01)

Authenticity in Character and Production

• The Realism of Riot Women

  • Characters based around 60 (except one at 44); each with rich backstories and real, unvarnished grievances and joys (aging, caring for loved ones, medical realities, mental health, libido, heavy bleeding).
  • Avoided stereotypes and “whiny women” tropes.

    “There’s so much drama in women who’ve got history... It makes them rich, complex, layered, and interesting.” – Sally (16:21)

• Casting and Immersion

  • All cast members learned to play their instruments for five months, which bonded them.

    “They had five months to learn. And apart from Rosie, who played Kitty... none of them played their instruments at all... it really bonded them.” – Sally (24:13)

The Representation of Menopause

• Portrayal Beyond Hot Flashes

  • Moved away from generic comedic menopause: “The more I learned about menopause, the more I realized how much more there is to it.” – Sally (30:35)
  • Included topics rarely shown: HRT, libido, anhedonia, perimenopausal symptoms, and caregiving stress.

• Stigma, Silence, and Education

  • Highlighted lack of language for menopause in some cultures, and Western tendency to minimize its effects.
  • Sally’s mother told her she “laughed her way through” menopause, which masked underlying depression—a generational silence (27:23).

• Honest Depictions of Mental Health

  • Opening scene shows two main characters contemplating suicide from different ends of the spectrum.

    “The most likely time a woman will commit suicide or complete suicide is between 45 and 55. No coincidence.” – Dr. Haver (28:56)

  • Theme: women can rescue each other when backed into crisis, and creative projects can sustain hope.

• HRT: Barriers and Benefits

  • Sally delayed HRT due to outdated fear of breast cancer, only to benefit when she finally tried it:

    “After about three months, it really kicked in and made a difference... I wanted to reflect that in the show.” – Sally (35:37)

  • Portrayed positively and matter-of-factly on screen—unique for television.

The Cultural Moment – Why Stories Like This Matter

• Changing the Narrative

  • Historically, female characters were either babes, authority figures, or old women—no middle ground.

    “Women have three ages in Hollywood: Babe, District Attorney, and Driving Miss Daisy.” – Dr. Haver (16:01)

  • Sally writes characters “who have lived entire lives before we ever meet them”—richer and truer to reality.

• Audience Reception

  • “We’ve had so many comments from women... saying ‘I feel seen. I feel this really reflects what I’m going through.’” – Sally (17:27)
  • Surprising number of men also responded positively, though some criticized the absence of “nice men.”

    “If you want depictions of nice men, watch 95% of telly... I’m doing something else.” – Sally (18:52)

• The Middle Squeeze and Multi-generational Pressures

  • “It’s about what Tamsin Greig very eloquently calls the middle squeeze... elderly parents, adult kids, grandkids—you’re the one who’s there for stability for everybody.” – Sally (42:19)

Reflections on Aging and Authenticity

• Positive Perspective on Menopause and Later Life

  • Both host and guest celebrate increased confidence, disregard for trivial judgment, and new creative ventures emerging post-50.

    “You do have permission to live your best, authentic life—because if you don’t, no one’s coming to save you.” – Dr. Haver (40:49)

• Female Wisdom and Roles in Other Cultures

  • Referenced Maori and Chinese “second spring” ideas—cultures where older women are respected as wisdom keepers.

• TV’s Missed Opportunity and Hope for the Future

  • TV historically ignored or distorted older women: “It’s the myth that women aren’t interesting at all except how they relate to men... for so long on television.” – Sally (45:05)
  • Need for women to write about women, disrupting inherited male-centred constructs.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Burnout and Rage as a Midlife Woman:

  “In the middle of all that, I started to feel that I was disappearing. It’s like everybody needed a piece of me... you’re capable of dealing with these things because you always have... and you start to feel you are disappearing.” – Sally Wainwright (11:16)

• On Loss of Joy (Anhedonia):

  “This feeling that all the joy had gone out of life and losing motivation to do anything... If I’d known that was part of menopause, how much happier I would have been.” – Sally (12:45)

• On the Unpreparedness and Silence Surrounding Menopause:

  “If you can give something a name, it means it exists. And it’s not just you... in some cultures there is no word for menopause.” – Sally (26:16)

• On Real Female Characters:

  “There’s so much drama in women who’ve got history. There’s so much drama in stories that begin 60 years ago.” – Sally (16:21)

• On ‘Invisible’ Women in TV and Society:

  “Women on TV are so poorly represented... impossibly glamorous, usually stick thin, under 30... that’s what we normally get as role models for women.” – Sally (16:01)

• On Men Complaining About No Nice Men in the Show:

  “If you want depictions of nice men, watch 95% of telly... I’m doing something else.” – Sally (18:52)

• On Midlife as a Renaissance for Women:

  “I never imagined at 57, I would start a company or 55, 50, whatever I was, you know, start a podcast, start a social media channel, step away from my safe, guaranteed job... It’s pretty interesting time of life and I think you’re capturing that so well.” – Dr. Haver (42:54)

Timestamps of Significant Segments

• [04:29-05:06] – Sally’s early writing obsession and bus driving days
• [10:15-13:38] – The personal genesis of Riot Women, dealing with menopause, caregiving, and feeling invisible
• [16:21-17:27] – On creating rich, layered female characters and the show’s reception
• [24:13-24:41] – The cast learning instruments and the bonding that resulted
• [25:04-26:03] – Sally describes menopause as “identity theft”
• [28:34-30:07] – Opening scene of Riot Women, introducing suicide in midlife, the characters rescuing each other
• [34:29-35:57] – Sally and depiction of HRT; her personal reluctance and experience
• [36:30-37:13] – Audience response: letters saying “I feel seen,” actionable impact
• [42:19] – Discussion of the “middle squeeze” and its effect on women
• [44:03-46:27] – TV’s historical shortcomings and the importance of women writing women

Takeaways for Listeners

• Menopause is a multifaceted, often invisible experience with profound emotional, cognitive, and social impacts—which media rarely portrays honestly.
• Creative expression and community (even impromptu rock bands!) can be lifelines for midlife women feeling overwhelmed or lost.
• Positive, empowered stories about midlife women are urgently needed, resonating deeply with both women and (surprisingly) male viewers.
• There is value in normalizing discussions of hormone therapy, mental health, and authentic female aging onscreen, subverting decades of “male gaze” storytelling.

Riot Women premieres on BritBox January 14th.
Find Sally Wainwright on Instagram @SallyWainwrightOfficial.
Full episodes of unPAUSED are available on YouTube at Dr. Mary Claire.