← unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver
unPAUSED with Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Still Bobbi: Bobbi Brown on Reinvention, Midlife Entrepreneurship & Finding Purpose After 60
01:05:10
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- [00:00]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
This episode is presented by Midi Health. Be sure to stick around for a MIDI pause. Presented by Midi Health. This is where I'll take a moment to discuss some of the hottest topics in women's health as I partner with MIDI to bring women the care they deserve. Holiday shopping doesn't have to be stressful this year. Primally Pure is helping you simplify it with their Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale running November 27 through December 1. With 20% off site wide and free shipping. Their clean, non toxic products make thoughtful gifts that anyone would love to unwrap. From festive sets to everyday essentials, everything feels elevated and intentionally made. If you're looking for something special, the Mini Body Butter Set is a great place to start a holiday staple you'll keep reaching for long after the season ends. It includes four rich, hydrating, travel friendly butters that leave your skin with that soft, all natural glow we love. Give your skin exactly what it's been asking for. From barrier supported tallow balms to the cult favorite natural deodorant and award winning face masks, these essentials leave your skin feeling healthy, balanced and refreshed. And since I'm on the go a lot, the Holiday Jet Set is one I keep coming back to. It's TSA approved and includes travel friendly essentials like lip balm, body butter, deodorant and body wash all tucked into a cute canvas bag and and perfect for slipping into a carry on. Whether you're stocking up, trying new scents or treating someone special, Primally Pure makes it easy to give gifts that feel good inside and out. Shop Primally Pur's Black Friday Cyber Monday sale from November 27 to December 1 for 20% off site wide and free shipping including holiday gift sets and bundles. No code needed. Discount applies automatically at checkout. Shop www.p r I m a l l y p u r e.com I'm still served ads that are anti aging and it drives me crazy.
- [01:55]
Bobbi Brown
There isn't such a thing. No, I mean I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like there's nothing that's going to anti age you. There's things that will age you quicker like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and strength and bad food and you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's, you know, I'm not looking to to use the term anti age at all. I just, I want to be more vibrant and I do that through makeup and I do it through what I put in my body and I do it through positive attitude.
- [02:33]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
When I opened Bobby Brown's new memoir, Still Bobby, the very first sentence stopped me in my tracks. I won't want to work when I'm 60. I laughed out loud because 30 years ago, those were my words too. I thought 60 would mean retirement. Grandbabies slowing down. What I never imagined is that now, at 57, I feel like this is the most productive, impactful and fulfilling time of my life. That line resonated because it revealed how deeply we underestimate what purpose and passion can look like later in life. When I first saw Bobbi launch Jones Road Beauty, I remember thinking, does she really need to do this? Why did she take this on? And then I realized we don't create just for financial reasons. We create because passion and purpose don't disappear with age. I met Bobbi at a business summit where I was an invited speaker. She was standing in front of a table filled with the Jones Road line and I'll never forget the image. This incredible icon in the beauty industry. No entourage, no assistant. Just Bobbi herself talking to women, answering their questions and introducing them to her products. I had this moment of recognition. She's just like us. And then I opened my swag bag and found some of those products and I dove right in. What struck me was she made these products for us. For women of a certain age, for skin that gets drier in menopause, for faces where powders can settle into fine lines. Her creams were exactly what my skin needed. And the brow product is genius because not only are my brows going gray like the rest of my hair, but the texture is changing and suddenly I needed help getting them to behave. That's the brilliance of Bobbi. She sees us, she creates for us. And she's not slowing down. Reading her book and seeing how she's built this next chapter has been a joy and I am so excited to share the conversation with her today. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist and certified menopause practitioner and also an Adjunct professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the of Texas Medical Branch. Welcome to Unpaused, the podcast where we cut through the silence and talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in the second half of life. The views and opinions expressed on Unpaused are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. So welcome to Unpaused.
- [05:02]
Bobbi Brown
Oh, I'm so happy to be here and so happy to see you again.
- [05:05]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So let's just go back to the beginning. Tell me a little bit about your Chicago roots and the journey that got you to New York City.
- [05:13]
Bobbi Brown
Well, you know, certainly writing this memoir has been cathartic, because I went back and thought about what my life was like when I was a kid and who I got to observe doing things. So I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. I was the oldest of parents that were 20 and 21 when I was born. By the time they were 25, there was three of us kids living in the suburbs. Pretty normal upbringing. And then eventually we moved and things started falling apart, like, one by one. But I look back at my childhood, and I don't think I had a complicated, hard childhood. I think I had a wonderful, loving childhood, and things just happened.
- [05:52]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You tell this great, scrappy story about your grandfather and how he was, you know, came over on a boat from the Ukraine and built his own business. How do you feel like that helped you develop your story?
- [06:09]
Bobbi Brown
Well, Papa Sam was this incredible guy. Very, very, very short man, very sweet man, very rough on the outside, tough guy, but inside, he was a mush. And I used to watch him, how he would talk to his customers and how he respected everyone the same. It didn't matter how who you were. If you were a person that came in, you were treated the exact same way. And so I saw that, and I used to help Papa Sam stuff his envelopes and mail them out to all of his customers. And I would look at his brochures. So I didn't realize that I was learning about business, customer service, and marketing.
- [06:46]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You met your husband, Steve, and there's a theme throughout the book of what a rock he has really been in your life. I think I'm married to Steve.
- [06:56]
Bobbi Brown
Aw.
- [06:57]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [06:57]
Bobbi Brown
You know, we're lucky. And by the way, I've been married 37 years. I'm so lucky. But it's not easy. No. You know, I mean, nothing is easy. Raising kids, being a, you know, working mom, being a working woman. Nothing's easy. But that doesn't stop me from putting things into it. I love my husband. He's always there for me. He calms me down. He also is a dream catcher. Do you want to open a store here? Okay, I say. And we go over with a roll of tape, and all of a sudden we've taped out all where things go, and he starts building it.
- [07:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That's amazing. I'm one of Eight kids. And my oldest brother died of leukemia when I was nine. So our family kind of took a tumble. My next brother came out of the closet when he was 16, and he was heavily, heavily into makeup. He was actually friends with Kevin Oquan, so they went to high school together. And I was his muse, if you can imagine, in full drag, basically, at 9 years old. I mean, I was contoured, highlighted bowling alley blue, blue eyeshadow, big frosty lipstick. What he thought of was glamorous and beautiful at the time. But he actually tried to make it as a makeup artist in New York and moved up here in the 80s. I was in high school, and he came home within a year. Wow. Yeah, it was a tough situation. You know, I think HIV was coming and he wanted to be home, but he tried. And I have lots of great pictures of him in Studio 54, looking very glamorous. But he did come home after a year and he was super successful at home.
- [08:30]
Bobbi Brown
What did he do at home?
- [08:31]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I called him a Jane of all trades. Like, he was a really accomplished chef. And so he did a lot of private dinner parties. He did a lot of seasonal decorating. Towards the end of his life, people would hire him to do all their Christmas decor, but he would go in at, like, October and he would, you know, decorate their front doors and their homes from October through Mardi Gras in Louisiana. So that was like four or five months of solid going every few months to change out the lights, change out all the decor.
- [08:59]
Bobbi Brown
A life in creativity, whether it's makeup or hybrid Halloween decorations or cooking is a life of passion.
- [09:05]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
When it wasn't holiday time or Mardi Gras, he was cooking and, like, the send off, the parents would call and say, hey, Bobby's going off to, you know, college. And he'd make all these, you know, casseroles to come pick up, to show up.
- [09:18]
Bobbi Brown
Oh, my God.
- [09:18]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So he was always busy doing stuff.
- [09:20]
Bobbi Brown
And he's no longer with us?
- [09:21]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
No, no. He died of HIV and hepatitis in 2015. And that was kind of my big lightning bolt moment to give myself the okay to pivot. Cause life's too short.
- [09:33]
Bobbi Brown
And I had a stepbrother that died of hiv. I'm not even sure if I put it in the book or not.
- [09:38]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I don't remember reading it. It probably would have traumatized me.
- [09:41]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah, yeah. He was my stepbrother, and he came to New York to be a hairdresser probably around the same time. And, you know, eventually he contracted this and died. So that was a sad time.
- [09:55]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah, it's just tough when I think about the no makeup makeup look and, like, understanding how what the. What everyone expected as from a makeup artist at the time. Cause that's what my brother was doing. How hard was that for you to just stick to your guns? And I know you had to do what the people who hired you said to do, but the whole time you're like, these people are beautiful. They don't need all this.
- [10:18]
Bobbi Brown
It wasn't hard because it was a natural pivot. So I tried to, you know, to be like Kevin o'. Conn. He came after me. But there were other makeup artists that I tried to be like. And I either didn't have the talent. Like, I could not paint a face to change someone's face. They looked awful. So either I didn't have any talent, or I just didn't think it looked good. So I started doing these little things that now people think were brilliant, like choose a foundation or make a foundation, mix it and blend it so it looked like your skin so it didn't look like a mask. And find colors of blushes that were the color of your cheeks. To me, it was common sense and simple. I think it was a way that I could hack the system. I don't need to put a blush on and try to blend it to look good. I could actually find a blush that you put on, and it's a better color, so it blends itself. So I kind of hacked my way into a career and somehow started a revolution in a new look.
- [11:17]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I love how you really lay out the origin story of the original company, Bobbi Brown Cosmetics, and that you were working as a makeup artist, stumbled across the lipstick. You know, you love this formulation. You had them in Ziplocs. You were handing them out, and then turned that into a company, which eventually grew. And you got bought out by or you sold to a lot or.
- [11:40]
Bobbi Brown
Right. So I was a makeup artist, you know, and had a really great life, getting hired by all the magazines, fashion shows, and met my husband, got pregnant and said, I don't want to do the traveling anymore. So I still took jobs around New York, and I did this one job where it took me to a pharmacy in New York, and I met the chemist behind the counter, and I talked to everybody, and I started asking about these lipsticks. He said, oh, I made them. I said, wow, they're really nice. I said, but I've always wanted to make a lipstick that didn't smell, wasn't greasy, wasn't dry, and look like the color I Wish my lips were. He said I could make it for you. So we started working together and he made it. And I said, oh my God, people would love this. I could probably sell this. And then I realized not everyone likes the same brown color I like and everyone has different color lips. So I thought and ideated what these 10 lipsticks should be. He made them for me and I just started selling them out of my house. There was no thought of being a brand. There was no. But I was selling a bunch. Eventually a friend wrote about them in Glamour magazine. We got a ton of orders and the company kind of started. We then launched at Bergdorf Goodman because I met someone at a party and she told me she was a cosmetics buyer. I guess I pitched her right on the spot. And I mean, I told her about it. I didn't realize at the time it was called pitching. And we entered bergdorf Goodman with 10 lipsticks not with the original chemist. We had to kind of redo everything we did to get it the right way. It became successful and after four and a half years, we sold the company to Estee lauder with a 25 year non compete.
- [13:25]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
As I talked about in the opening, the first line of the book is, I won't wanna work when I'm 60. And I laughed out loud. Cause I remember thinking 30 year old Mary Claire, 35 year old Mary Claire, 60 was old.
- [13:44]
Bobbi Brown
Old.
- [13:45]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I couldn't imagine, like I didn't, I didn't have a model.
- [13:48]
Bobbi Brown
No.
- [13:48]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Other than domestic labor of a woman working on purpose at 60. Right. And so I totally get what you. I would have said the exact same thing. Like, sign the contract, honey, you know.
- [14:01]
Bobbi Brown
Exactly.
- [14:01]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
This is our payday. But you, you stayed on as creative director. Like they, you didn't just buy and walk out.
- [14:06]
Bobbi Brown
No, I did not. I actually went to work or sell and walk out. Right. I actually went to work as a. It was still my company, but now I had these teams and this money and these budgets and that seems so fun. It was really, really fun for most of the time. And I had, you know, complete autonomy. I had partners I loved. I had, you know, Leonard Lauder, who was an amazing mentor to me. I had teams of people. And then like anything in life, things change. Like I don't think people realize nothing stays the same.
- [14:38]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And.
- [14:38]
Bobbi Brown
And so maybe it was amazing for 15 years, maybe 18 years. But the last four or five years were tough and the last year was unbearable. And I stayed still because I thought I could fix it.
- [14:53]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You just have that grit.
- [14:54]
Bobbi Brown
I just thought I Could fix it. And honestly, it was my Aunt Alice. She was, you know, now she's 94, so she must have been 87. And she said, honey, it's time. She said, all you do when I talk to you is complain about everything about work, but you say, don't worry, I'll fix it, and nothing changes.
- [15:12]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And then when you exited the company, they kept your name?
- [15:16]
Bobbi Brown
Well, no, no, they. When you sell a company with your name and they buy it, they own it forever. Okay. And that was fine. I had no problem with that.
- [15:23]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You knew what. You knew it when you signed the contract. When I signed, 25, 24 years, sure.
- [15:28]
Bobbi Brown
They could have my name. What do I need it for? What did I know?
- [15:31]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
But it was upsetting. You talk about it in the book. It was a really. You took two whole days.
- [15:36]
Bobbi Brown
I did. I took two whole days off. And, you know, it was a tough time. And I write about it in the book a lot because there was a lot of details. And I want people to understand that it's normal to feel bad when things like this happen, and it's what you do with the information that matters. And for me, it was something I needed to go through. I needed to go through the emotions of anger and sadness and excitement, and it just. It was all over the place. And I, you know, thank my. My husband, my friends started reaching out. You know, even people I weren't. I wasn't that close with would reach out and just, you know, help me a bit.
- [16:15]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Check on you?
- [16:16]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah, check on me. And it took a while, but anyone that knows me, I just can't sit still.
- [16:21]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [16:21]
Bobbi Brown
So I started going out for lunches, and I just started doing things and ideating and trying a lot of projects.
- [16:28]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So you did a masterclass?
- [16:30]
Bobbi Brown
I did a masterclass. It was really fun. It was the first.
- [16:33]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You were one of. The first.
- [16:34]
Bobbi Brown
I was one. I was the first, you know, makeup artist.
- [16:36]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Okay. I remember seeing that advertised. You know me, who knows nothing about anything in the cosmetic world? I thought, oh, that's really cool. And the master classes were new. It's not like everybody had done them.
- [16:46]
Bobbi Brown
But, I mean, the masters up to that point were Annie Lieboitz teaching photography, and, you know, Roger Federer, you know, teaching tennis. So it was a very big honor. And I didn't have, you know, a company or products, but they still thought of me as the one to be the master, an icon. It was really, really great. And then I got invited to India to be the keynote speaker of the first ever Indian makeup show. You think of Indian makeup as this Bollywood over the top. But they hired me, so I got to do that. And I just realized how much I missed being in the makeup world.
- [17:23]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So you've said, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't have an intention when you left, you're like, that's it. No more beauty brands. I'm done. How long did it take before you went to any? And you're like, maybe.
- [17:36]
Bobbi Brown
Well, you know, what happened was when I left, you know, and again, you could read it in the book and make your own decision if I quit or I got fired. But I didn't have an agenda. I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what I was gonna do. And honestly, I didn't know if anyone would care about me ever again. I thought, oh, no one's. I'm not gonna be on those interviews.
- [17:57]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So much of your identity was tied up.
- [17:59]
Bobbi Brown
Exactly. And my husband even said, you know, you've never really separated yourself from this company, from this. You know, it was my first baby. Yeah, it was before I had my first kid.
- [18:08]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [18:09]
Bobbi Brown
So I didn't know what I was gonna do.
- [18:13]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
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- [21:57]
Bobbi Brown
Well, all I cared about was launching this new company the day my non compete was up. Yeah, so when I left the corporation.
- [22:06]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Why was that so important?
- [22:07]
Bobbi Brown
Because when I left the company, I had four and a half years left on this non compete. I don't do great when people say you can't do something. So I couldn't do anything in beauty and four and a half years seemed like forever. And you know what? I would have my freedom for the first time I could literally tear up the piece of paper, I'd be done, and I wanted to launch it. The issues were, it was a week before the presidential election, in the middle of the pandemic, and everyone said, don't do it. Every PR firm people we talked to said, you're crazy. Why don't you wait till January? I don't know. You remember what happened in January? Like, January 6th. So there never would have been a good time.
- [22:48]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
No.
- [22:49]
Bobbi Brown
And I needed to do it. And, you know, I had the products. Cause I had been working on them secretly. But I didn't have a name. I didn't have a name that was available that we liked or everyone agreed on. And I was driving with my husband to our home in the Hamptons, of course, as I always do, complaining how and how and when and how. And my husband said, you need to get this name by Monday or you're not gonna be able to launch in time. And my head was down because my husband likes me to check Waze and Google Maps. God forbid we're late five minutes to somewhere, and we had nowhere to go. But my head was down, and I see Jones Road, and I don't know why, I just blurted out, jones Road Beauty. And my husband said, I like it. And it was available, and that was it. So that became the name.
- [23:36]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
When I think about how I used to shop for makeup, I would go to, you know, based on my budget at the time, which was zero, I would go to the grocery store, I would go to the drugstore, which was Eckerds or what is now CVS or Walgreens, and wander through and then look at the makeup and say, oh, this looks nice. Or that looks nice. My children are 21 and 25, and they almost 100% buy everything off of social media.
- [24:05]
Bobbi Brown
Right.
- [24:06]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Some they see a makeup artist using it, they see some product, they get influenced, then they buy. And you were on social media talking about your product. That's how I found you. That's how I found Jones Road. It was served to me during the pandemic. And I thought, wow, that's Bobby Brown. What's this Jones Rhodes stuff? And you were showing this, like, the miracle.
- [24:31]
Bobbi Brown
The bomb. Yeah.
- [24:32]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And putting it on. And so I bought some for my sister for her birthday, and I'm like, I'll get some. I bought a tub too, and had so much fun playing with it. And the first thing I thought was, she made this for me. This is for women with drier skin. I never had oily skin before. And then menopause sucked all the oil out of my body along with, you know, water and everything else. Did you, though? I mean, were you focusing on a certain age when you built these? No.
- [25:00]
Bobbi Brown
You know what? And this is the true story. I don't see age. Like, I don't think, oh, this is for this group. And I know we have a demographic that is our higher, you know, people that buy the makeup, but I don't see age. I just saw this amazing product that would look good on skin. That, of course, it's a skincare and makeup in one. So if you remember, during the pandemic, we didn't do anything, right? We didn't color our hair. We didn't do anything. And then slowly, we started to open up our laptops and our cameras and do Zooms. But we looked awful. So this product instantly was a miracle. Cause I just looked so much better. And so did everyone else that tried it. The young girls in my office, my friends. And I was like, I'm onto something. I said, this could be an entire brand because it's number one. It was important to me that it's a clean brand. I wanted to create products that didn't have any chemicals. I'm a certified health coach. I went back to school and got my degree from iin. And so I've always been someone that believes how you take care of yourself impacts how you look. But then, of course, makeup can also impact how you feel. So I find it like one big circle. And Miracle Balm just was the perfect product because you could use it instead of a moisturizer, you could use it over a blush. If your skin's oily, you could put it over a powder, or you could just do it by itself. And so it became a pretty much overnight success.
- [26:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
For my Go to Zoom look, though, the Zoom filter is nice. I have that long mascara wand with this. It hides the. If you haven't seen it, it's my TikTok purchase. I throw my hair in a ponytail, and I slick back all the flyaways. I put on my Miracle bomb. I do my eyebrows, I put on lip gloss, and I'm good to go. My glasses, and I'm good to.
- [26:48]
Bobbi Brown
We wear glasses. We get away with a lot. I think it's harder for women that don't. That don't. And honestly, some days when all else fails and no matter what, you don't look good and you put your makeup on and something's not working. You're probably dry and dehydrated from inside. But all I Do is take the miracle balm and it fixes everything.
- [27:06]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah, it's awesome. So when you were doing all this, I have this feeling. No one really tells you no. You just do whatever.
- [27:14]
Bobbi Brown
Well, they tell me no. I just don't always listen.
- [27:16]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Did anyone say, why are you doing this?
- [27:19]
Bobbi Brown
Oh, a friend of mine. Why am I doing this?
- [27:21]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Either age or do you really financially have to do this? Or why are you doing this?
- [27:26]
Bobbi Brown
Right. I mean, I had friends of mine when I said I was writing a memoir. Why are you doing that? One of my best friends said, why do you have to do this? I don't have to do it. I want to do it. I mean, I am so lucky because I don't have to work. I work because I love what I do. And I'm really curious and I'm always. I always want to do something better. I always want to. You know, I'm very competitive with myself, you know, and I guess I'm competitive just by nature, so. And I don't let go of something that I want until I get it.
- [27:57]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Until you get it. Do you like the scrappy stage? Like the beginning of the startup?
- [28:02]
Bobbi Brown
I am the most scrappy person. I mean, Jones Road now is a big brand. We still run it very scrappily. And I love it. It makes total sense. I kind of grew up hacking my life. I knew nothing. I left. You know, I was not a great student. I didn't have a lot of book learnings, book smarts. But I realized I had other things. Maybe I had the Papa Sam education. And so as I'm doing more things, I'm learning more, and I'm like, oh, I could do this. And then I kind of just became, watch me. You know, not even to other people. Maybe it's to my high school teacher, my middle school teacher, but it's to myself. Okay, watch me.
- [28:42]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I love in the book when you talk about just start. So many women in my clinic, you know, at this age, reaching out on social media, this age. And so I'm about 10 years behind you or at the school.
- [28:53]
Bobbi Brown
That was a nice way of saying you're 10 years younger. Okay, I'm 10 years behind you.
- [28:58]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I'm 57. So, you know, you're aging parents dealing with that. And then, you know, kids are different, launch pads, you know, moving on. And a lot of people are getting in and out of marriages, getting in and out of jobs, or, you know, menopause, like, for a lot of women, at least in my world, because everyone's in menopause. A lightning bolt comes down and they're making decisions on the next 30 years really fast. And so I see a lot of them stuck in analysis paralysis. And that does not ever seem to be your issue.
- [29:28]
Bobbi Brown
I don't like to be stuck. So when I wake up in the morning and I feel stuck and it happens, you know. And again, I think it's probably I'm dehydrated or maybe, you know, I had the sushi and, you know, an extra glass of sake, whatever it is. I wake in the morning and I feel stuck. I drink water immediately and then I put on either music or I have a couple guys I follow on Instagram and I dance, I do hip hop, and I don't care if it's for 10 minutes.
- [29:53]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I love it.
- [29:54]
Bobbi Brown
It literally unsticks me. I love it. So exercise, you know, for me is kind of everything.
- [30:00]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I'm very much the same. I built a gym in my house so that. And I work from there. So I have a treadmill and I'll throw the laptop up there and walk. And so I take most of my zoom calls up there. People think I'm nuts. I don't care. Put on the weighted vest, I get up there. But when I'm stuck, I literally crank up. It's disco for me because of my brother. And I dance around until I work.
- [30:23]
Bobbi Brown
Out whatever makes me want to do more. So tell me about the weighted vest.
- [30:27]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So origin story for me was listening to Vonda Wright and some of the people in the osteoporosis world about we have an epidemic of low bone density in this country and for multiple reasons, and what can we do about it? So I'm a scientist, so I go to the literature, I start digging, I'm like, what can we do? We know hormone therapy helps and not everybody can take it. And so what do we know works? I had three, four, five, six now, seven articles on doing weighted vest training with elderly patients who had osteoporosis. And they were seeing bone benefits from this mechanical load. And I'm like. And I knew, like the bros were wearing them for tactical training, but that's. I don't like listening to the wellness guys that much. I'm like, what are the women doing? Like, what helps me? Not a 25 year old male athlete. And I was like, there's pretty good data. It's not gonna hurt me. I'm already walking. I'm just gonna throw this on when I'm walking or doing housework.
- [31:22]
Bobbi Brown
I mean, it could hurt you if it's too Heavy for your body. Exactly.
- [31:24]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Exactly. So. So I go to Amazon, and I pick out what looks like a decent weight of fast. And I started, like, six pounds. Then I'm digging, like, how heavy do you have to be to see benefit for bones? And the benefits were about 10% of your ideal body weight. So for me, that's like £12. So I'm like, all right. So I get a 12, and I immediately decide I'm gonna go walk on the seawall, which in Galveston, we have this big walk along the water for, like, seven miles. Well, I almost died that time. That was way too much. So I realized you have to build up to it. You have to start. But I love it. And then I keep talking about it, and I'm making videos with my Rita vest.
- [32:02]
Bobbi Brown
I think there's a picture in the book where I'm at a fashion show. It was Ford Model of the Year. I was a young makeup artist. I must have been 24 years old. I'm wearing Richard Simmons shorts. I'm doing the makeup, and your hair.
- [32:15]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Is in the right.
- [32:16]
Bobbi Brown
But what you couldn't see is I was wearing leg weights. So I used to bring my leg weights to work, like, years ago. Yeah. Yeah. This was like in, you know, the Disco 8.
- [32:26]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
The little ankle weights.
- [32:27]
Bobbi Brown
Little ankle weights, yeah. Always travel with them.
- [32:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That's amazing. I love that. I used to wear them in the OR under my scrubs, and then, like, the long case. They made so much fun of me. I was doing, like, squeezes and stuff behind the OR table on these cookies. You do not seem to be afraid of failure.
- [32:44]
Bobbi Brown
I don't believe in failure. Yeah. Like, to me, what is failure? I mean. Yeah, some things don't work out. Right. I got fired. Some marriages don't work out, Some relationships don't work out, some businesses don't work out. That just means it's a big message to do something else. Yeah. And you learn, especially if you learn from it.
- [33:06]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
My daughter's out there. Really hope she's listening right now.
- [33:08]
Bobbi Brown
But you learn from it. And so it's funny. Cause people say, oh, you're fearless. And that's not true. I'm very. You know, I'm a very kind of anxious, fearful person. When it's my kids, you know, I worry about them when they're flying, when they're driving. I'm not a daredevil. But I'm not afraid to pick up the phone and call someone, ask something, do something, start something new. And I love when I've never done it before. And don't know anything about it. That's my sweet spot.
- [33:37]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So I wanna talk about our moms. I'll start with my grandmother. So my mom is one of seven children. My mother was the oldest and my grandmother suffered from mental illness. They kind of glossed it over in her lore. But you know, my mom said enough throughout the years to where she was hospitalized on few occasions. My grandmother, she had shock treatments.
- [33:59]
Bobbi Brown
Right.
- [33:59]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
My mom did admit that. And my mother was left at home to take care of her siblings. My grandfather was not.
- [34:06]
Bobbi Brown
How old was your mom?
- [34:07]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
A hands on dad. She was probably 15.
- [34:09]
Bobbi Brown
Right.
- [34:10]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So old enough to manage six other kids. You know, I guess some of my aunts kind of jumped in. But it's kind of a time that it's not been talked about a lot in our family and it's a lot of reflection on my part. My mother also has suffered from mental illness. She was medicated. I remember seeing the bottles of Butasol in her bathroom and that was her nerve pills medicine. And I looked it up when I was researching for the new perimenopause and thinking about when was mom in perimenopause and when were those dates most likely. And my mom has dementia now and really can't give me any historical context. So I looked it up and I realized it's a sedative. So my mom was sedated. She had eight children. Wow. You know, lost one when I was nine. You know, she had lost one child. Next one's out of the closet, next one's in rehab. You know, she was going through a lot at the time. I was a little bit dramatic and then had three little kids too, you know, all the same. And so she self medicated with alcohol. So I grew up in a very tumultuous household. There was very little stability. Little kid, I think I was fine. But like you said, you know, like things changed, life got in the way and you know, it's taken me 50 years of perspective to understand my mother and really what she went through. And I've turned out okay. But you know, reading about your mom in those first couple of chapters and, you know, I created this life for my children with as much stability as possible. I married the most solid man in America. I chose a career at the time that was a guaranteed income even though I was away from the house a lot, you know, and I was always worried about them and them not growing up with all of the upheaval that I had. How was that for you?
- [36:02]
Bobbi Brown
Well, very similar. You know, my mother really wasn't diagnosed until I was in seventh grade. So for most of my upbringing, you know, it was normal. It was our normal. I didn't really know notice anything different, and I didn't know any different about her. And so when she had her quote, unquote, first nervous breakdown, you know, where my sister found her, in the bathroom trying to cut her wrists, that was the first time we realized there's a big problem. And she was hospitalized. And, you know, I remember that One Flew out of the Cuckoo's Nest was the movie of the year. And so that was the first time I ever heard that people had. We didn't say mental illness, we said nervous breakdowns. And, you know, we'd visit my mom in this hospital. She was in there for, you know, probably months. And my father was taking care of the kids while working. There was only three of us, not eight of us. And he hired a woman to come in and, you know, cook and do the laundry and do whatever we needed. But it was, you know, it was an intense time. But honestly, I think about it and where my brain goes, you know, when I laugh a little bit, that my mother made some really good ashtrays, you know. Cause that's what she did when she was in the hospital. And my father and I got to spend all this time together bonding and talking. And, you know, he told me how important I was to the stability of, you know, the brothers and sisters. And I needed to, you know, to be the quote, unquote, mom. And I felt, you know, I felt that was a really big deal for me. I just somehow didn't look at it as bad. And I was never worried. Oh, no. What if I get it? Or what if my kids get like. I never thought about stuff like that.
- [37:44]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I didn't worry about that for me either. I somehow felt like I was stronger. And I've definitely had therapy, but I haven't had nearly the stuff that my mind has gone through. What I do worry about now is dementia.
- [37:56]
Bobbi Brown
Right.
- [37:57]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
But that's biological, and there's a lot of things I can do.
- [38:02]
Bobbi Brown
There's a lot later to do that risk.
- [38:04]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah, my.
- [38:05]
Bobbi Brown
Well, my mother also, before she passed, had dementia, but she was on medication for most of her adult life. And we know that that is something that's a risk. Yeah. Aunt Alice, who's 94, has never taken.
- [38:19]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah. And your aunt's.
- [38:20]
Bobbi Brown
She's never taken medication in her life. No thyroid, no hormone, Nothing. Nothing, Nothing. Everything's fine.
- [38:26]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And is she your mom's sister?
- [38:28]
Bobbi Brown
She's My mom's sister.
- [38:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Okay.
- [38:29]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah.
- [38:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And then when your mom was hospitalized, did she step in to help?
- [38:33]
Bobbi Brown
She was always there. Yeah, we lived near each other and yeah, she was always there.
- [38:36]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And you write about. My mother was also hyper glam. It was the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s. And I can remember her sitting at that makeup table. I kept it for a long time. It even had, it was wood and it had a cigarette burn. And I had it refinished, but I wouldn't let them cover that part, you.
- [38:56]
Bobbi Brown
Know, because, yeah, there was always a cigarette hanging off the bathroom.
- [38:59]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You said that.
- [39:00]
Bobbi Brown
And they were always like the marble always got got stained.
- [39:02]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I just. You read, you wrote about that. And I was like, oh my God, that was my mom. And I would watch and I couldn't wait to go play. And she had those little plastic, you know, all the organizers with all the different makeup coming out. I just loved sitting there.
- [39:17]
Bobbi Brown
It was, it was definitely a different time.
- [39:22]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You've heard me talk about the care gap in menopause. How women's symptoms are often dismissed or left untreated. I see it all the time in my practice. There are many women struggling for answers, unsure where to turn and too often not getting the support they need. That's why I'm so excited to tell you about midihealth. Midihealth is a telehealth clinic focused exclusively on women in midlife. Led by trusted medical leaders and clinicians, the team is committed to evidence based whole person care. They're also the only national women's health teleclinic covered by major insurance, making expert care accessible and affordable. When you work with Mitti, you get a personalized plan that can include hormone therapy, nutrition guidance, weight management and lifestyle support. It's care designed not just to help you feel better today, but to protect your heart, bone and brain health for the future. This is such an exciting moment. Menopause care is finally evolving into what it should be. Accessible and centered on women's real needs needs. It's inspiring to see the progress MIDI is making, helping women feel truly heard and supported. You deserve care that supports you now and protects your long term health. Visit joinmitti.com to meet with a MIDI clinician and start feeling your best for the years ahead.
- [40:38]
Sponsor Representative
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- [41:38]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Taking care of your mental health can feel isolating. There are days when scrolling through advice online just doesn't give you what you need. And let's be honest, reaching out for support can be overwhelming. It can be hard to know where to start, but that's where ALMA comes in. With a nationwide network of over 20,000 diverse licensed therapists, 99% of whom accept insurance, ALMA makes finding the right care simple and affordable. You can search without creating an account, then filter by what matters most, like gender, race or therapeutic approach, and even see the session costs upfront. With their free insurance estimator. On average, people using Alma Save 80% on their sessions. What stands out most about ALMA is that this isn't about quick fixes or generic advice. It's about real human connection, which means you can schedule free 15 minute consultations with as many therapists as needed to find one who truly fits your goals. Building a meaningful relationship over time leads to better mental health outcomes, and ALMA makes that easier than ever. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com unpaused to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's helloama.com unpaused there's another passage that really resonated with me and I'm going to read it. You were talking about, I think you were flying overseas and doing all these press tours for the brand and to quote, there's a particular mixture of exhaustion and adrenaline in these moments that I've grown to know well. It's bone chillingly painful to be tired, but I know I have to perform or I won't have a career. Not only does the makeup have to look red on the model, but I also have to look good. While I have people to support me, ultimately I Am the one who has to perform. There's so much at stake, such responsibility to the company and myself. I put my exhaustion aside and performed. Of course, I over caffeinated to keep myself going. Then I'd get into bed at night, wired from the coffee and the stress, and wondered why I couldn't sleep. It was hard. But I did this because it was more than my job. It was a calling. I really felt that in my bones. That was a choice I made. Becoming a physician, that was built into the system. Right. You knew you were gonna work long hours. You knew you were gonna stay up past your bedtime and be in these, like, crazy emergent situations. And I left traditional hospital practice in 2021 to open my menopause clinic. No more surgery, no more hospital. So I really felt like I was walking away from that part of my life. I didn't realize that being a founder.
- [44:23]
Bobbi Brown
Of a company, it's a whole nother set of rules.
- [44:25]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Bring all of that back. And I've been feeling a little bit alone in this journey. Sometime everything's on my shoulders as a founder. And if I don't perform, if I don't step up to the plate, if I don't bring it every time and get on those planes and stay in hotels, and the company is gonna suffer. And all these people who are counting on me. And I'm just so glad you wrote that. Cause I felt like she gets it right.
- [44:50]
Sponsor Representative
But.
- [44:50]
Bobbi Brown
However, when I was working for a corporation, there were their rules. So I was not in control and in charge.
- [44:58]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [44:58]
Bobbi Brown
When you are a founder and it's your company, you have the ability to say, okay, let's pause. Yeah, just stop. Let's look at this. What's working for the company and what's working for me? And that's the thing about starting this next phase of my life. Cause I started Jones Road at 62 years old. We just celebrated five years. I'm 68 years old now. I don't feel it, but I know that I have the ability to cancel anything I need to cancel, to recalibrate what's going on. And, you know, like, I have no one to blame except myself. Like, I am on this book tour and it is my friends and I exhausting, it's grueling. And no one around me believes what I am able to do. And it's okay to be tired. And you know what the good news? When it's tired, like, I canceled my workout this morning. Cause I just couldn't get up. I canceled my blowout. So What? It was two days ago. Blowout. It's still fine. And I realized things don't matter. And that has made it easier for me to do what I'm doing. I'm not doing any less, but I'm taking away the pressure.
- [46:10]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
My team is great in, like, saying, hey, are you okay? Is this too much?
- [46:14]
Bobbi Brown
But you always say, yes, I'm fine. I do, right? Yes, I do, too.
- [46:18]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Until I kind of break. And then they're like, you know, and.
- [46:21]
Bobbi Brown
It'S okay to break, and it's important to have your posse around you that is there when you do break. Okay? Don't worry. We got you. Okay? We could do this. All right? You can't cancel that thing, but you could phone this one in, or we could reschedule this because you can't do everything we think we can. And also when we accept jobs and calendars, when we feel healthy and great, no problem, piece of cake. But then when we start feeling exhausted and run down, it's like, what did I do? And, you know, you're allowed to kind of say, okay, I need to take a break. So what if you cancel? So what?
- [46:58]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Trust your gut theme throughout the book. I don't think I was taught to trust my gut.
- [47:04]
Bobbi Brown
Well, I don't think anyone teaches you to trust your gut. Look, you're someone that is. I'm sure you got all good grades your whole life. I did, right? I didn't. And I learned that what's gonna serve me are things that aren't written in a book, are not taught in a business school. They're just. They're innate for me. Like, I get it. Like, I know how to do this, but it's kind of trusting your gut, which, you know, I'm not a thinker as much as I'm a doer. Doer. But, you know, the whole trust in your gut thing, this gut thing. Cause I always have digestive issues. So I'm like, maybe it's my gut that's giving me my digestive issues.
- [47:40]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And then the power of no and.
- [47:42]
Bobbi Brown
The power of no, it's not.
- [47:43]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That's another theme in the book. I'm like, yeah, you know my person.
- [47:47]
Bobbi Brown
Right? Well, and by the way, you could text me anytime. Like, I have these women that understand what we're going through. Not everyone understands this. And when I'm in these situations and I'm so overloaded, the first thing I do when I have a second, I don't get a massage, which I should be doing. I'm not sitting in a Bath. I call my friends and I have these friends that are everything to me. They're not on Instagram, they have no idea what I'm doing. Whatever they read or see on how they get the media. But I need to at least have a 15 minute talk. How are you doing? How's your dog? How's your kids? That keeps me grounded. I need to check in with my people.
- [48:31]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I'm glad to hear you say that. I've transitioned recently. I kind of was in the same job and raised the kids together. I have friends from college, friends from high school, friends from medical school, friends from my training program and then the mom friends. And that's kind of my core group. And we all kind of did this path together of raising kids. And I was at the hospital and they would pick up my kids and my husband was traveling. And then now I, I've transitioned to this and I have to really make an effort to reach out to them.
- [48:59]
Bobbi Brown
Or else you will not have them. And sometimes it's just a phone call, sometimes it's a text. And I have even one particular friend that I know. She feels bad when I'm not in touch. And every once in a while I text her when I'm leaving some TV show before I'm going somewhere else. I just want to let you know I'm overloaded, but I'm thinking of you. I'll call you on Friday when I'm back.
- [49:19]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That is great.
- [49:20]
Bobbi Brown
So those little things have made a.
- [49:22]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Difference in the book. Towards the end I got a little teary. It was very sweet. You talk about how you define success now. And I define myself by grades, which got me to medical school. I defined myself by number of patients I was seeing. Was I making the most money in the practice, all these external things. Were my kids making good grades? These poor girls. One is a creative and I'm still trying to figure her out. And then the other one is figured out.
- [49:54]
Bobbi Brown
She's out in five minutes.
- [49:56]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
She's out there. And my other one's in medical school. So she kind of, you know, has found that path. But I loved how you said the way you define success has shifted your family. My family, my kids. And you speak of your daughter in laws, the women in your son's lives. So kindly. But it's so beautiful.
- [50:18]
Bobbi Brown
I love them, you know, and they're not. And trust me, nothing's easy. They both married. Three sons, two wives, one girlfriend. The two married boys married really strong women, you know, really strong women. And it's interesting for me to Watch the dynamics. And it's really, I'm proud of both of the boys, you know, how they're maneuvering, you know, two very different relationships. I mean, I'm now a grandmother. I have two grandkids. And it's interesting because the parents of the grandchildren is my son Cody is our second son. He's the CEO of Jones Road. His wife Pyle is the head of Brand. And in the beginning it was a little difficult and we've all really grown and learned and communicated how to work together better. And that's to me, the secret is communication on everything.
- [51:12]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
It just was so beautiful to see, you know, And I was like, God, I wish someone would write that about me so sweetly. I love my mother in law, but it was one of those, she likes to point out how different, you know, she raised her kids versus how it raised mine.
- [51:30]
Bobbi Brown
But my kids, you can't say that. Now, see, I know that as a mother in law, I just ran into trouble because I was worried for my granddaughter running out the back door. And my daughter in law just looked at me like, do you not think we are doing exactly what we need to be doing? You know, don't judge me. I'm like, just put a lock on the door higher so Lily doesn't open the door. But then I realized, bobby, be quiet. You can't say it.
- [51:52]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I find myself doing that with my girls now. Like, took my 25 year old adult child out to brunch with her boyfriend and was like, you're gonna pack that up, right? And take it home. Cause she hadn't finished her meal and I was like, shut up. You know, she's grown.
- [52:06]
Bobbi Brown
No, it's hard, it's hard. I mean, my oldest son is 35. I have find my friend on my app, so I know where they all are. And I checked. They gave that to me for Mother's Day one year. And my youngest son who lived in Telluride for high school, I used to get in bed at night, it was two hours different there. And I would look, oh, everyone's home. Oh, Duke's home. It says Telluride. And then he finally told me when he went to college, Mom, I used to leave my phone at home. So you thought I was home. I was not there.
- [52:37]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
You know, you've watched how your kids are doing things, how you did things. And this generational, you know, you're working with a younger team, I'm assuming. Now, how do you see this generational change? Are you excited about how the way the kids are thinking and how they're doing things.
- [52:52]
Bobbi Brown
Oh, I love it. I surround myself with a lot of young people that.
- [52:56]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Not that we're old.
- [52:57]
Bobbi Brown
No, no, no. But I mean young people that, you know, certain names, you know, they just don't know when you talk about popular culture. And you know, I had Diane von Furstenberg come in to speak about her book. She actually called in from a yacht in Italy to speak to the team. Half of the kids didn't never heard of her. And so I made them watch the movie and google her. Have you ever seen her movie?
- [53:22]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
No.
- [53:23]
Bobbi Brown
Oh, you gotta see it. It'll make you feel so incredible to be alive.
- [53:26]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I know, I know who she is. Yeah.
- [53:27]
Bobbi Brown
You know, she was known for the rap dress.
- [53:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah, the rap dress.
- [53:29]
Bobbi Brown
But she was an original powerhouse woman that just said, why do I have to live my life differently than the men? Wow. She just had that in her head. So it was a really great documentary. But you know, I love surrounding myself with people that are a lot younger. I love teaching, but I also love learning from them.
- [53:48]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [53:48]
Bobbi Brown
And I also love being with people that are really old. My love of Leonard Lauder is in the book, just like my love of my husband, so, you know, and love of my dad and Papa Sam.
- [54:03]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Now for a medi Paws sponsored by MediHealth. Let's talk about Omega 3s, one of those nutrients that everyone assumes they're getting. Enough of. Spoiler alert, most of us aren't. Omega 3 fatty acids are essential and critical and they're structural components of nearly every cell in your body. Not only do they keep your heart strong and your blood vessels flexible, they support brain health, reduce unwanted inflammation through throughout your body, and help your immune system function optimally. Now, if you're consistent with eating fatty fish like salmon, mackerel or sardines multiple times a week, you're likely getting what you need. But let's be honest, most of us aren't doing that. That is why Omega 3 supplementation can make sense. It's one of the most well researched evidence based interventions we have. When I talk about supporting your health through perimenopause, menopause and beyond, it's about equipping your body with what it needs to function the way it's meant to. Omega 3s are one of those functional pieces working quietly but powerfully to support every system in your body. If you're thinking about where to invest in your long term health, omega 3s are an excellent place to start. Because real health isn't just about living longer it's about living stronger, sharper, and more vibrant at every age. So what advice would you give to a woman, you know, in midlife? That's most of my listeners who are thinking about launching or doing something different.
- [55:38]
Bobbi Brown
Well, first of all, ask yourself what it is and is it different or better than what's on the market, whatever it is. And again, I don't care if you launch a business that, you know, chops vegetables and puts them in Ziplocs and sells them. By the way, if you do, call me, because I would love to hire someone to do that simple stuff in my life, but also just do it. Just start doing it, doing it little, Seeing if it works, seeing if people like what you're doing, and seeing if you like what you're doing. Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Everyone wants to be a founder. Everyone wants their own business. Well, a. It's not for everybody. It's not for everybody.
- [56:18]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
See, there's a lot of spaghetti thrown.
- [56:20]
Bobbi Brown
At a lot of walls at our house, and a lot of founders need a second person to make sure that they are dream catchers.
- [56:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
My husband was with Chevron, so doctor, engineer, doing our things. And then as the business started growing, he has an mba and he kind of was helping out, but still working for Chevron. And suddenly he's doing more and more and taking on more and more. And I'm like, you're actually going to. At this stuff? Like, I need to stay in my zone of genius. I mean, I was the hydra. I did everything in the beginning. I didn't know what I was doing. I was on social media and building websites and doing all this stuff. But he eventually did retire earlier than originally planned, and now completely runs all that.
- [57:05]
Bobbi Brown
He didn't. He never retired. I think that word needs to be.
- [57:07]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Well, he says, you know, he's still like. Like, what I'm doing is not really work. I'm like, no, you have a bigger budget than you've ever had in your entire life.
- [57:15]
Bobbi Brown
Right? Yeah. No, I. It's. It's one of the. It's one of my trigger words when people say, how's retirement? Like, first of all, no one retires. They just shift into doing something else. And even if that means you're playing golf all day or playing tennis, that's what you're doing now. You're not retired. Retired sounds like some old person sitting in a chair.
- [57:32]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And that's the quickest way to die.
- [57:33]
Bobbi Brown
It is 100%.
- [57:35]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I read through Joy Span, there's a gerontologist, so I'm, like, fascinated with aging now, right? And I'm like, how do women age? I just want to stay out of nursing home. I want my time of loss of independence to be, like, as short as possible. And she talks about using your brain and human connection. Really, if you run the cancer gauntlet, you don't have a heart attack. What is really gonna determine your joy span? Living a joyful life is keep thinking, keep creating, and keep connecting.
- [58:05]
Bobbi Brown
Right. And honestly, keep moving.
- [58:06]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yes.
- [58:07]
Bobbi Brown
My aunt Alice, who's 94, has a, she says not boyfriend. It's her best friend, but they're together and have this great relationship. He's 95, going on 96. He walks around the retirement community with ski poles or walking poles, and he just walks. He never stops. He goes out, walks the property, comes in, walks it. He just walks and he never stops. He is so vibrant. You know, he also is on some kind of a glp. And he said it keeps him young. He said it keeps my brain, it keeps me young. And he's not done from a medical standpoint.
- [58:42]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I am so fascinated by that drug. You know, probably 25% of our patients are on it. And it is. It can be life changing. That's a whole nother discussion. All right, back to beauty. All right. I'm still served ads that are anti aging, and it drives me crazy.
- [58:56]
Bobbi Brown
There isn't such a thing. No, I mean, I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like, there's nothing that's going to anti age you. There's things that will age you quicker, like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and stress and bad food and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's. You know, I'm not looking to. To use the term anti age at all. I wanna be more vibrant, and I do that through makeup, and I do it through what I put in my body, and I do it through positive attitude.
- [59:25]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So in the book, you talk about somewhere around 50, probably around your menopause, I'm guessing you went through a whole health transformation. And tell me about the course you went to and you being a health coach.
- [59:37]
Bobbi Brown
So I had my last baby at 41. By the time I was 48, I was full on, you know? Me too. Yeah, 48. I started barely getting periods, and I just was detached. There was something not right. So I went on bioidentical hormones. I've always been someone that's really rare.
- [59:54]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That you found someone who would give them to you. How did that happen?
- [59:57]
Bobbi Brown
Cause I read Suzanne Somers book. I mean, I read the book.
- [60:00]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That's all there was.
- [60:01]
Bobbi Brown
That's all there was. And I actually did the research and found one of her New York doctors. And I went to him, my husband also went to him, and he's the one that taught me about it. And I went on it and it was like a miracle. And I was so afraid of breast cancer in the family. I eventually went off it and I felt awful again. I went right back on and I've not been off it since. And I'm way past menopause, but I just feel like, I think it keeps me young.
- [60:33]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
It's always protecting your bones and it can continue to give you cardiac benefit if you start young enough. So my husband teases me that if I don't develop a contraindication, if I do, then we'll deal with that. That when they open my casket, there will be bo. A little plastic estrogen patch. I know, right. Sitting on my skeleton. But you will bury me with that thing.
- [60:55]
Bobbi Brown
It's amazing. And I finally have the right medical team. I have a functional nutritionist who's amazing, and her sister who is an MD that left a women's practice and now they work together. That's amazing because I used to just take the functional doctor that would read all the different tests and I would go to my doctor that prescribes and they say, where'd you get this information? No. And so it was always a struggle. And now I have a team that I get to work with that look at all the doctor looks at the labs and then the functional one looks at these other things and they discuss it together. So I'm a big believer in functional medicine. I'm a big believer in regular medicine, too.
- [61:35]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Well, I think there's a meat in the middle, 100%. I try to do the best of functional in our clinic. And everything I learned from my standard MD allopathic obgyn. I have all of that. And then I have all the new knowledge. I went back to school for nutrition, you know, and then where did you go?
- [61:51]
Bobbi Brown
You've only went to a real school.
- [61:53]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So it is a. It's called culinary medicine and it's the National Academy of Culinary Medicine. And so the courses I took were through Tulane, and then I did my labs in San Antonio at a test kitchen because we work with nutrition dietitians.
- [62:06]
Bobbi Brown
That's amazing.
- [62:07]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
We actually went in and cooked in.
- [62:08]
Bobbi Brown
The kitchen, of course, and did some.
- [62:10]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Real practical, hands on stuff with the internal medicine team.
- [62:14]
Bobbi Brown
Well, I went to the Institute of Integrative nutrition, which teaches people to become health coaches. And a health coach is not a nutritionist. We don't get the science courses, but we learn about how functional nutrition really works and how you crowd out a bad diet with healthy things and how you start realizing and helping people to change their habits.
- [62:35]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And who are you coaching?
- [62:37]
Bobbi Brown
Anyone that. Anyone that asks. I don't get paid for it. Anyone that asks.
- [62:42]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So, you know, my kids are getting served these messages too. Still. I see the little girls going in to buy skincare, you know, at the Sephora, like 12 year olds. I mean, that's crazy.
- [62:54]
Bobbi Brown
It's crazy. I see it. You know, I don't go into Sephora very much, but when I kind of go, and if I have an extra minute and it's there, I go in and I see a lot of fathers on a Saturday with their young children, and it's actually really sweet with their young daughters with like a gift card left over from their birthday or Christmas. And, you know, hopefully they're buying lip gloss and eyeshadow and not retinol.
- [63:14]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah.
- [63:15]
Bobbi Brown
Because, you know, a 15 or a 12 year old does not need retinol.
- [63:18]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
No.
- [63:19]
Bobbi Brown
And they're, they don't even need to.
- [63:20]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Know what it is they're being marketed. I had bows in my hair. It was running around in the dirt riding bikes at 12, because that's what.
- [63:26]
Bobbi Brown
You'Re supposed to be doing.
- [63:27]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So I wasn't worried about, you know, am I glowy enough on my Instagram?
- [63:31]
Bobbi Brown
But you know what? You can't fight the new world, which is social media. You just have to be the voice of reason to your girl. You know, I've written two books for teenage girls on beauty and makeup. I'll probably do a third because it's the generations that come back to me. Say I started with your book. That helped me appreciate my freckles or my strong nose.
- [63:53]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
What do you want? You know, younger women. So you're talking to my daughters right now about aging. What would you tell them?
- [64:00]
Bobbi Brown
Well, first of all, instead of wasting your time with aerobics, do weights.
- [64:03]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Oh, that.
- [64:04]
Bobbi Brown
That is a big regret. I have that. I did. I was the Jane Fonda. You know, I taught step aerobics.
- [64:12]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Okay.
- [64:12]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah, I was not coordinated enough for step aerobics. I was always doing my own thing. What a surprise. But I was feeling the burn with Jane Fonda. I was definitely feeling the burn. But no, you do weights and you just, you feel better, you look better. And it's not about how skinny you are. It's about how strong you are.
- [64:29]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Stronger for skinny and.
- [64:30]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah, and I would tell them that. And I would also say just really think about what you love and your passion and try to build your life around it. And. And nothing's perfect. You can have whatever life you create for yourself. It's not gonna be easy and it's not gonna be perfect. And that's okay.
- [64:48]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Looking back now, what would you tell that 34 year old Bobby with your couple of decades of.
- [64:54]
Bobbi Brown
Well, the 34 year old Bobby, I would say, okay, learn how to chill because you're gonna be doing this in your 60s, 70s, and probably 80s, if not 90s. So I plan and hope to live to 100, and I really want my 90s to. My dad is early 90s. His brother and sister live to their middle 90s. I would like to be healthier.
- [65:18]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Me too. All right. I just love, love, love, love, love. I love easy. I love when the book. When you talk about. Listen, I'm not making these for supermodels. I'm making this for the busy working mom who's putting this on in the car or in the train real fast doing her makeup. So I have the little setup here. What's in here?
- [65:38]
Bobbi Brown
So that's the five year kit. It'll probably be sold out by know we talk about it, but. And I gave five new products, so which we will probably. You know, that's the balm and that's.
- [65:50]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
In the little tub.
- [65:51]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah. And that color is called cheeky, and it's actually the color that you're wearing on your lips. And you know, you could put it on your cheeks, you could wear it on your lips. And yeah, we had two different colorways. Really pretty. And it works when you have nothing on your face. That's what's so great. But first of all, I hope your makeup artist approves. But it looks really pretty.
- [66:11]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
She's probably. Yeah, yeah.
- [66:13]
Bobbi Brown
It just like really kind of gave you a little lift. And that is. That one I'm not gonna like for you because it's too dark. So you can give it to someone with darker skin. But this one is an illuminator. It comes in two colors. We'll try to get you the pinky one because it just wakes up your skin.
- [66:30]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
I love this guy.
- [66:31]
Bobbi Brown
That's espresso. It is a darker. Like only someone like me could take a dark brown and think I could improve on it. So we still have the dark brown, but now I made espresso, which. Which is the color of an espresso.
- [66:42]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Okay.
- [66:43]
Bobbi Brown
And it's just, it's deeper.
- [66:44]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And I'm really excited to try this.
- [66:47]
Bobbi Brown
People are gonna be thrilled. So this is an eyeshadow stick that you could line your eyes, you could smudge it in a pinch. You could use it in your part between touch ups, which is so nice.
- [66:58]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That is. I'm still coloring my hair.
- [67:00]
Bobbi Brown
Yeah. And you know what?
- [67:02]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
And I might forever. And my mom is still with dementia getting her hair colored in the nursing home.
- [67:08]
Bobbi Brown
You know, people always say to me, why won't you just let it? I'm 100% correct. Why won't you?
- [67:12]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
My sister has done it and I.
- [67:14]
Bobbi Brown
Don'T want my hair yet. And I don't think. I always said, well, maybe when I'm 60. Then I said 70.
- [67:19]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
That's what I said.
- [67:19]
Bobbi Brown
And now I'm like, you know what? I don't shoot things in my face. So if coloring my hair makes me feel younger, I'm gonna just go for it. And then batch 18. Batch 18. This is what I launched before I had a company. It's a great color. It works on everybody. This again, you could use on your cheeks. And we made this so I can give it out for Halloween. And it was. People request this all the time. So we brought it back for the kit.
- [67:45]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
So menopause, you know, isn't just one day in our life. It is the last period till the rest of our lives. But it often feels like, you know, when I thought about it as a 30 year old, it was my time to be invisible. I didn't even have a picture of a woman other than an old woman, an elderly, decrepit, kind of frail woman. But that's not it. I am healthier, happier, living the best life that I've ever lived. I wouldn't go back. I lived my whole life before. But I, I feel like this is the sweet spot for me right now and it's only gonna get better. What have you decided to unpause for yourself at this time of life?
- [68:18]
Bobbi Brown
Well, first of all, when I think of pause, I never do pause. And I need to pause a little bit. But you know, what did I unpause? I think I've just given myself permission to do whatever I feel like doing, whatever it is. Like, I can't wait to go home today and see my granddaughter. That is like my priority today.
- [68:38]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
What's your grandma name?
- [68:39]
Bobbi Brown
My grandma name is Bebe. Bb Yeah, My grandma name is Bebe. I'm very proud of the name.
- [68:44]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you for being on pause I'm so glad to spend this time with you and educate our listeners all about Still Bobby. Excellent book. I mean, I think it should be required reading for all young women. Just a story of resilience and grit and determination and you're just a badass.
- [69:06]
Bobbi Brown
Oh thanks. And you know what? If I could do it, anyone could do it. Yeah. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [69:11]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Awesome. As a reminder to our audience, you can follow Bobby on instagram@justbobby.com Ornes Road Beauty and Bobbi's new book Still Bobbi is currently available on Amazon. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind. You can find me on Instagram rmaryclaire and get honest and accurate information on health, fitness and navigating midlife@thepauselife.com also my new book, the New Perimenopause is available for pre order now on Amazon. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast apps so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube at Dr. Maryclaire Unpaused is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with Pod People. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on Unpaused are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, advice, diagnosis or treatment.
- [70:25]
Bobbi Brown
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day. Yeah, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.
- [70:49]
Dr. Mary Claire Haver
Payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow 135 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra Siemen Mobile Com.