← UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
10: Psychedelics: The Answer to Radical Liberation ft. Phoenix White
00:58:50
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- [00:00]
Phoenix White
Lights are going up.
- [00:02]
Ryan Seacrest
Snow is falling down.
- [00:04]
Phoenix White
There's a feeling of goodwill around town. It could only mean one thing. McRib is here.
- [00:14]
Ryan Seacrest
People throwing parties, ugly sweaters everywhere.
- [00:18]
Phoenix White
Stockings hung up by the chimney with care. It could only mean one thing.
- [00:26]
Sheila Marie
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- [01:32]
Bartesian
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- [01:52]
Ryan Seacrest
I'm thirsty.
- [01:53]
Bartesian
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- [01:58]
Ryan Seacrest
Beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.
- [02:00]
Bartesian
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- [02:12]
Ryan Seacrest
Tis the season to be jollier.
- [02:16]
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- [02:32]
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- [03:04]
Sheila Marie
Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly. Welcome back to Unruly. Today's episode is going to be plantfully powerful or powerfully planted. Okay, well, we're talking about plants, y'all. Okay? We're talking about plants as medicine. For generations, we've been conditioned to fear or overlook practices like plant medicine, energy work, and spiritual recalibration. But not today, baby. Not today. Our guest, Phoenix White, is a trailblazer in this space. She's the author of Redefining Strong, the creator of the radical fusion method, and a queen of radical liberation. Phoenix is here to help us reclaim what's always been ours to begin with, period. So if you're ready to connect with your power and dive into transformative practices you've been waiting for, let's get into it right now. Phoenix, welcome to Unruly. I left.
- [04:18]
Phoenix White
I was like, where did they get all this information from?
- [04:22]
Sheila Marie
You know, the team. You know, I got little detectives on my squad, and I was just playing. No, we really do try to be informed about who we're bringing on, and you came highly recommended by my community. So I'm so excited to talk to you. I want to start with, like, a fun icebreaker, if that's okay.
- [04:38]
Phoenix White
Yeah.
- [04:39]
Sheila Marie
All right. If you could reincarnate as a plant, which plant would you choose and why?
- [04:45]
Phoenix White
Which plant? Oh, my gosh. Okay, so, okay, so, okay, look. So there's plant medicine and there's plants, right? So I have to decide, okay, I'm gonna do the plant medicine. If I could come back as a plant medicine, and then I'll tell you why. I would probably be either mushroom psilocybin or ayahuasca, the ayahuasca vinegar. And the reason why is because I feel like they are an intelligent species on its Own. They're not just a plant. It's a species. It's like one of the most intelligent species on the planet. And that is why I would feel I would go between those two.
- [05:27]
Sheila Marie
Ooh, I want to Revisit the plant vs plant medicine thing later, by the way, but I love that answer. And so, okay, one more. If you could introduce plant medicine to one historical figure, who would you choose and why?
- [05:42]
Phoenix White
On or present now?
- [05:45]
Sheila Marie
Any. Any. Any direction. Past, present, future, doesn't matter.
- [05:50]
Phoenix White
Gosh, I don't know. Maybe President Trump, period.
- [05:55]
Sheila Marie
Sister.
- [05:56]
Phoenix White
I just feel like it's so enlightening, and I feel like if someone is going to leave the country, they need to have that en level of wisdom and information. And I feel like it gives you that. Whether you try to fight it or not, it gives you the truth.
- [06:09]
Sheila Marie
You know what? I never thought about that, but I wonder where we'd be as a country if every president had to do, like, a mandatory plant medicine ceremony before going into office. I feel like things would be.
- [06:22]
Phoenix White
People do a lot of medicine that you have no idea do medicine. Preachers, pastors, celebrities, athletes. You'll be surprised. The people that I've even worked with that, of course, I can never promote, but like, that have done plant medicine. You have no idea. It's a whole underground thing.
- [06:43]
Sheila Marie
So, okay, this is not on the script, but I have to address it now. So if these powerful people are doing plant medicine. To me, when I think of plant medicine, I think about something that is connecting you back to the universal, back to the collective in a way. But I don't see these powerful people moving like that. They move very much ego, very much individual, very much. I only care about my family. I don't care what happens to you.
- [07:04]
Phoenix White
But just because you have the information doesn't mean that you use it properly. So sometimes people use plant medicine not just to elevate themselves, but to heal, to be able to keep moving forward, to be able to have that ego. You never know who is powerful or I would say, has all of this regal, you know, appearance to other people, but they are really suffering on the inside. They're really unhappy or they're really sad. Like, you can look at different celebrities that have taken their own lives, and you're just like, well, why they do that? They had everything, but because they're really unhappy on the inside. So just. Just because you're super powerful or fluent, it doesn't mean that you feel good when you go home at night.
- [07:45]
Sheila Marie
Okay, Fair, fair.
- [07:46]
Phoenix White
That was a good. That's a good thing because at the end of the day, if you think about it, people. So we get all kind of information. We can go to counseling, we can go to church, we can go and get all this stuff, right? But it's up to you to decide what type of behavior, behavior discipline, or how you choose to even use it, right? So you can use it for self or you can use it for others. Everybody still has a choice. A lot of folks I know go to church and they still act the same way. They go get inspired on Sunday and they come home and they do the same stuff. It is a self thing. So it doesn't matter what you take or what you do or who you coach with or who you learn with or who you're attached to. It is a self thing. It's an inner thing.
- [08:26]
Sheila Marie
I want to talk about the start, maybe not the start of your journey, but I found this so interesting as I was researching you. I want to start with this one Instagram caption that I read. It said, quote, I had to endure two life threatening brain surgeries with doctors warning I might never regain my ability to speak, create, or put things together properly. Life seemed like it was determined to break me, but I had to fight for myself and my son. One day in that motel room, I made a few choices that changed my life. End quote. I want to hear about that day and what led you to the choices that you made in that hotel room or that motel room?
- [09:07]
Phoenix White
Yes. So I. I had two brain surgeries, technically three, but I'll say two that were really invasive. You know how you go through your life and you feel like, what am I doing that is causing me to always have to go through some really terrible shit all the time? Like, I'm a good person. I try to do right by people. Like, why is it something. There's always just something, right? And so when I had to get those brain surgeries and they're like, oh, you want me to put things together? It's like all I do is put things together, you know, like, if I can't create and I can't come up with ideas and I can't, you know, write or do music or all the things that are so beautiful to me, they are about innovation and creation for me. So if I can't do that, then that's just like taking my life away. Like, I don't really want to be here if I can't do, like, I can't create anything right? And so when they told me that, I was like, okay, what's the best course of action. What can I do? Do I do the longer healing method, which is less risk? But you're in a higher category for brain bleeding. If you get too excited or you cry.
- [10:09]
Sheila Marie
Wait, can I stop you? Can you tell us a little bit about what was leading you to have brain surgeries?
- [10:14]
Phoenix White
So I had what's called an avm. It's when your veins and your arteries form a cluster in your brain. So typically it's one supposed to take oxygen and blood to and from the brain. Mines forms like a rubber band ball. Have you ever seen a big rubber band ball where it's like locked up and all these arteries and veins are the different rubber bands and so they're locked? So when the other vein and arterioles are trying to go their natural direction, it's going into, like a car wreck. It's just bumping into that knot in a sense, if that is a good example.
- [10:45]
Sheila Marie
Yes, that makes sense.
- [10:47]
Phoenix White
So that can cause you to have a seizure. You could have a heart attack, you could have a stroke. And I had a. I was a single mom at the time, so I didn't want to be driving or something. And I go into a seizure because that's happened to my sister before. We're in the car and she has a seizure and I'm having to pull over on the side of the road. So in my mind, I'm like, this is dangerous. Right. The symptoms were ear ringing, ear buzzing. So you know how you hear electronics or the refrigerator buzzing or PlayStation, that little buzzing noise? So I would go through my house unplugging everything, but it was in my head. And then when I would walk sometimes I would hear that buzzing. And then I would just kind of like go limp. So it would knock out my equilibrium for a few seconds. And so that is why I was like, I got to fix this because it's just getting worse and worse and worse. So that's why I had the brain surgery. And then right after that, I was homeless. No money. I didn't have nowhere for my son and I to live. Um, so I went to the food stamp office and they gave me like a voucher, a two week voucher to get a motel. So I had a motel on Hollywood Boulevard. And like, I took pictures of it. To this day, I still have that. It's. It was. It was that change that I made. I remember being in that hotel room and I was really depressed, and I was like, I just want to kill myself. So I became suicidal. So, you know when you Sit in a certain emotion for too long. It can either go down or it can stay neutral, but it can go down or it can go up. So I started going down because I started rethinking about all the things in the past that had also gone wrong. And I kept trying and trying and trying, and nothing was really working. It's like I get one little foot in, and then I get pushed back, you know, three steps. And so I think. When I think I was sitting in that hotel room, and I remember it was so dirty. You know how you can go through, like, with a. A wet wipe or something? You see all the black shit in the. In the window. It was like that. It was just dirty. I had all my stuff in the car because I still had a car at the time. I had an suv. And because it was paid off, so it was the only thing that owns. I didn't have to, like, pay for. And I remember just having a moment where it was like, okay, you're going to have to call somebody because you're becoming really suicidal. So I called one of my friends. Her name is Janelle. And she was like, hey, you know, if I set you up with an appointment with a therapist or psychologist, she was trying to be really light about it, Would you go? And I was like, I mean, whatever. I guess I had attitudes. There was no making me happy, you know, whatever. I guess. I guess I had called the suicide hotline as well. They made me actually feel like I wanted. They, like, was pushing me over the edge because I felt like they were chastising me. Like, I didn't like how they made me feel. It pushed me over the edge. And so I went. You know, just the way they were talking to me, like I was stupid. So, what are you. What are your plans? What are you gonna do? And like, well, why are you feeling like that? And it's just like, I just. I'm trying to reach out for help. I don't want to be made to feel bad for how I'm feeling in this moment. I just need to know what I can do or somebody to just listen without making me feel judged, right? Which is.
- [14:17]
Sheila Marie
I can't believe that you had the experience of being judged for hotline.
- [14:20]
Phoenix White
Like, they make you just. They not. They make you. At that time, they made me feel like I just wanted to go ahead and go drive into traffic going the wrong way. That was my plan at first. That was the vision I kept seeing. I was like, this is getting a little too bad for me. I'm starting to see the visions of the things happening. So I went and I met with this. This therapist. Well, not a therapist. She was psychologist or psychiatrist, because they were different. It was a psychiatrist. And she said to me something that just woke me up. And it was so simple. She was like, if anybody had gone through what you've been through, they would be feeling the same way. You're not crazy. No one would feel any different than you. She was like, so I'm not going to give you medication. I'm not going to do anything because it's going to throw you over the edge. You're just really not crazy. You're just going through a lot, and nobody would feel any different. And I was like, she gets me. You know, I'm not tripping. I'm just having a hard time. So I remember I went outside and that was the first time I saw the sun shining in a really long time. Even though it probably had been shining in LA forever. But that was when I could see it, you know, like, it was like, oh, I could see the trees. Oh, it was bringing me back to being present.
- [15:39]
Sheila Marie
Her giving you permission to be in your feelings allowed you to see the.
- [15:43]
Phoenix White
Sun because it was always there. It was there when I walked in, But I wasn't present enough in the moment to witness everything around me. So in my world, everything was gray. There was no color because of psychologically where I was at that point. Right? So. And that goes with everything that we do in life, right? It's like things could be right in front of you, super beautiful, but you can't see it because of the headspace that you're in. Yeah, you can't see it, right. And so it requires for you to get back present. So when I got back present and I was back in my body, then it was like, oh, shit, the sun is shining. Oh, wow, there's green leaves on the trees. You know, like, it's not gray. That's okay. That's interesting. So then I went back to that motel room and I was like, what can I do different? How can I get myself out of this situation? I started to strategize, which is my natural ability. I'm really good at creating something, right. Instead of staying in my victimized state, which I had a right to be in, right? But I had to shake myself out of it and get at least to neutral. I wasn't gonna get happy, but I could get to neutral, right? So I got to neutral and I started cleaning this motel and making it beautiful. So I started clean that's how I knew it was so dense. Dang on dirty. Because I started scrubbing. I started scrubbing inside the windows. I started. I took the blankets out of my car and I took off their blankets and I did my own blankets. I put a flower on the little table that was in the little room, and I made it feel like I got these little plastic plates and I set it up like a little table for me and my son. So I had to pull myself into, like, okay, right here. This is what we got. How can you make that beautiful? And that was that shift for me. It was, what can you do with what you have right here? How can you make that beautiful in this moment? Just one little step.
- [17:44]
Sheila Marie
And was that. Did that moment lead you to plant medicine, or were you already in get? No.
- [17:50]
Phoenix White
For me to become a facilitator for plant medicine, I had to do a lot of work, a lot of years of work on myself and going through different things. You know, there was the healing, the brain surgery. There was me moving to another state. And then, you know, I started writing books and I started doing all these different things. And then after I'm on my. On my path, after I start teaching and I start doing my work, then it's like, okay, well, what is that next step? Because I started feeling stagnant. You know, you can grow. Then you feel like, okay, you know, this is cool, but this is not it for me. I got to keep growing and evolving. Plant medicine was not in my plans at all. Because in my mind, plant medicine was a drug that made people a little crazy. I'm not a person.
- [18:37]
Sheila Marie
Yes, that's a big stigma, which we're definitely going to get to. So just want to clarify. So you had. So you did end up having to have the two brain surgeries, and they were successful. And so do you feel like a part of the success from those surgeries is intertwined to your spiritual practices or your other practices you were doing outside.
- [19:00]
Phoenix White
Of the surgery is linked together, you know, your journey, every part of it, good and bad, is all linked together. Right? Like, one leads you to the next, that leads you to the next, and so on. I think with the brain surgery, it required me to dig deeper because just because you have brain surgery doesn't mean that you're healed. So I had to also go through the process of healing my brain. I still have things where it's like, oh, I can't remember certain things. Like, short term memory is very hard for me. Big words that were in my vocabulary. I can't Find them when I'm ready to speak. So I was like, you know, fuck it. I'm about to just start using regular words. They just gonna have to fill me, you know, the ones that I use every day instead of, like, going to my big vocabulary that I had learned, you know. And so I had to go into this just really being truly confident within myself and rocking with that, like going with the flow of who I am and where I'm at at this time. And, you know, that kind of led me to plant medicine after a while. When I decided to move to Mexico four years ago, I just.
- [20:04]
Sheila Marie
Are you in Mexico now?
- [20:06]
Phoenix White
No, I'm in Atlanta.
- [20:07]
Sheila Marie
That's right. I was gonna say.
- [20:08]
Phoenix White
Wait, I think you're in Atlanta.
- [20:09]
Sheila Marie
Okay. Okay.
- [20:10]
Phoenix White
So I moved to Atlanta in January. Last January.
- [20:14]
Sheila Marie
Woohoo. Welcome.
- [20:16]
Phoenix White
Thanks. So, yeah, so the plant medicine, it was that calling. I'm one of those people that when I hear something, when my spirit says, hey, you need to go here, you need to go live here, you need to go sell all your stuff, I. I bounce.
- [20:29]
Sheila Marie
I love that.
- [20:29]
Phoenix White
I'll take the whole family with me. So my baby was like. I think he was five months old, Four or five months old. And my spirit was like, I was getting really depressed. That's when I know it's time for me to move. I started feeling really sad. Stuff starts, you start paying attention to the signs and it was like, you need to go to somewhere that's closer to water. Which is what I did when I had brain surgery. I moved to Miami and did my healing there four years ago. It was like, you need to go to Mexico. I was like, what do I need to go to Mexico for? But I like Mexico. Okay, cool. I don't know what's here for me. We ain't got no jobs there. We don't know what we're doing there. So we packed our stuff up and we moved to Mexico. When I got there, I started working with a healing center out there. And they were like, you need to. We want you to use your influence to get more people from the States to come here to do plant medicine. I was like, no, I'm not. I'm not telling nobody to do nothing they gotta ingest because that's gonna blow back on me. And I was like, I'm not telling nobody to do anything that I haven't tried yet. And so it took me about like six months before I tried it, because I couldn't promote what I hadn't tried.
- [21:41]
Sheila Marie
Yeah, right. So as a matter of integrity, shout out to that.
- [21:45]
Phoenix White
And, you know, as a teacher, the integrity is everything.
- [21:49]
Sheila Marie
Yes.
- [21:50]
Phoenix White
Right. Cause what you say, people will do.
- [21:52]
Sheila Marie
Mm.
- [21:53]
Phoenix White
And so I'm responsible for that. You know, So I got out there and got to that plant medicine, and I was like. I was like, oh, shit. This is a life hack.
- [22:06]
Sheila Marie
It's a life hack. I actually want to dive deep into the plant work in a second. Before we do that, I want to ask you about your radical fusion method.
- [22:16]
Phoenix White
Yes. So radical fusion is. Well, it can be tailored per person or it can be as a group. So the breakdown of radical fusion is about three or four steps that help people to snap out of anxiety, depression, anything that they're going through, they need to be. They need to heal in order to be radically liberated, to step fully into who they really, truly want to become and who they really, truly are on a deeper soul level. That's what that is.
- [22:44]
Sheila Marie
Mm.
- [22:45]
Phoenix White
So it's wild, though. It's not. I'm.
- [22:49]
Sheila Marie
What is the method? Can you tell us a little bit about how it works, or.
- [22:52]
Phoenix White
Well, the first. I can tell you the first step. Okay, the first step, because I'm about to put out a program. But the first step is. The first step is easy, and it's one of the most powerful parts of it, and that is writing down your core desired feelings. And the reason why I say to do that is because when you write down your core desired feelings, which is, I want to feel loved, I want to feel supported, I want to feel alive, I want to feel free, I want to feel beautiful, I want to feel worthy, I want to feel successful, I want to feel healthy, whatever it is. Mine's had, like, 50, 60 things on there of all these things I wanted to feel. And then you write down your top five things that you spend the most time with or doing, and you'll see why. Where you're out of alignment, because they. Because if it's not on that core desired feelings list, then you either need to renegotiate it or you need to eliminate it from your life.
- [23:49]
Sheila Marie
I love that. I feel like that's so in alignment in. There's a part of my book where I talk about having an emotional algorithm, and it kind of feels similar to that in the sense of, like, you know, on socials, if you look up plant mom stuff, next thing you know, you open the app, there's all these plant pages. Like, the more you engage with something, the more you see it, the more you recognize it. So I love this. Like, what we focus on, we magnify and so I love that. I love that as a starting point.
- [24:17]
Phoenix White
And you start to manifest what you feel. Because a lot of us are doing a lot of things that don't feel good.
- [24:22]
Sheila Marie
Yes, yes.
- [24:23]
Phoenix White
So if we're. We're good at them, but that doesn't mean they feel good. Right? You could say, oh, my business makes me feel. Let's say our business. Our business makes us feel alive, trapped, exhausted, successful. You know, like, it can be all these things good and bad. Okay, well, why does it make you feel trapped? It makes me feel trapped because I have to consistently do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, then you need to change that. You need to renegotiate what you're doing within that part that makes you feel trapped so you can feel better. Otherwise, that part of your life is out of alignment. It's not where you want to be, and it's not what you want to be doing.
- [25:00]
Sheila Marie
I want to ask you about radical liberation, because I know this is something you're very passionate about. I want to know what does radical liberation mean to you, and how do you guide other women towards that same type of life?
- [25:14]
Phoenix White
I'm crazy. No, I'm just playing.
- [25:16]
Sheila Marie
I love it. Me too.
- [25:21]
Phoenix White
Radical liberation is being unapologetic in the pursuit of being more of yourself. I think in some of the work that even I was doing, or I am doing, I got bored. So as a. As a. As a leader doing spiritual work, right? I got bored. I started feeling trapped. I started feeling like I wasn't able to be all of myself. I had to speak a certain way and act a certain way and do certain things, and it was really irritating me. So I got to the point where I was like, what am I missing? Like, what is the issue? Why am. Why am I just stagnant in this spot? And it's because my magic actually lives in me being more of myself, not in me regurgitating and doing what other people want me to do. So if I'm gonna. So, yes, I can be a shaman, but I cuss, right? That's my shit. Like, that's my magic. That's the people that are supposed to come to me are gonna come to me, because those are the people that I'm supposed to minister to, right? That are supposed to be a part of my orbit. But if I am trying to act like or regurg the information that someone else feels like I should be doing or saying or being or how I'm supposed to heal, my version of healing is not the same as the textbooks. I will Start smashing shit, setting stuff on fire. I'll start doing all kinds of things that are more embodied because that's what I need. That's where I feel most alive. And the people that come to me, that gives them permission to be more of themselves. It's like, what you bring to this, what you bring to your ministry, what you bring to your art needs to be specific for you and not what other people want you to do. Because that's where we get stuck and start feeling depressed, trying to be what other people expect of us. Trying to do things that we really don't want to do, you know, or acting like other, you know, acting like who we don't really want to be or we can't even be all of ourselves. Like, oh, I got to be a teacher so I can't be sexy. Oh, I got to be holy, so I can't be, you know, I can't act a certain way or I can't speak a certain way. I can't go a certain place or I can't eat meat, I can't eat. Like I can't do all these things that I really want to do or I can't show it. I got to do it in secret.
- [27:38]
Sheila Marie
You know what, when I talk about unruly and people are saying, well, what does unruly mean? What does unruly mean? And I'm like, unruly to me is being honest and being human. And being human is being messy and hypocritical. We are all hypocritical, every single one of us. Every day is a walking contradiction. And the difference is when you're, I think in your sense of radical liberation, my sense of unruly, you're just being honest about it. You're just putting it out there instead of trying to act, mask like it's not happening.
- [28:07]
Phoenix White
You're like, fuck it, whatever. This is me, take it or leave it, you know, and this is, this is how we're doing this work. And if you don't like it, oh, well, I'm not supposed to be a part of your tribe.
- [28:17]
Sheila Marie
And to me, that is liberating.
- [28:20]
Phoenix White
Yes.
- [28:21]
Sheila Marie
And so I want to know, do you feel like there's a link or what is the link between healing and liberation?
- [28:29]
Phoenix White
Healing to me is finding out the places where you're wounded and doing the work to liberate yourself from that right, to evolve out of that space. There are some places that people will never 100% heal because they're just too deep rooted. So like, say, grief or like Hurt or losing a loved one, you're never going to fully heal from that. I feel like you're going to learn how to deal with it in better ways or healthier ways, like how to navigate it. Liberation is after the healing has taken place. So when you choose to be more of yourself, when you choose to be more alive and to go towards that. So the liberation only comes after the healing, or it only comes after you've decided to make certain decisions in your life where you're like, no, I'm not doing this no more. Fuck it. What? I'm not. I'm not doing that no more. I'm just. I need to bust out of this bubble and I need to be. And it's getting back to being present.
- [29:28]
Sheila Marie
What would you say to the woman who's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Phoenix, I hear what you saying. I know I need to be liberated. I know I need to feel all my feelings, but I don't have time to feel my feelings. I'm busy. I ain't got time. It's too much going on. I want to know, like, what would you say to that woman? And what are the consequences of having, like, unprocessed emotional energy in the body?
- [29:50]
Phoenix White
When you have unprocessed emotional energy in the body, it makes you sick. It turns into disease. Dis ease. Right. If your body is uncomfortable, it turns into dis ease, which is disease. Right. So I think a lot of people need to stop bleeding all over everybody else also, because when you don't do your work, then you bleed everywhere. Everybody has to suffer the consequences for the work you choose not to do. Ooh. And it's important. It could be your husband, your kids, whatever work you don't do on yourself. If you think about the issues that you may have gotten from parents or things that someone has said in the past or the work that they weren't able to do on themselves passed down to you. And then you have these issues that you have to deal with later, whether it be with acceptance or worthiness or, you know, someone says, like, oh, you're fat all your life, and then you. You're constantly trying to chase being skinny the rest of your life. Like, it could be very small things, but where did it come from? You know, with my parents, I had to. I had to give them a lot of grace, and I had to find out, like, where did this start from? Yeah, I know that it was a projection onto me, but where is this fear coming from? Oh, it came from their parent, you know, that was doing this this and this to their mother or whatever the case may be. Like, it just trickles down. And so you have to be the person in the family that says, no, the buck stops here. This is where the change is made, and everyone has to follow suit. So, like, in my family, the changes that I've made, I've had to create boundaries of things that I don't allow. You can't say or do or act certain ways around me or towards me. I'm not gonna let you project onto me.
- [31:33]
Sheila Marie
Can you give us an example? Cause I feel like that's something so many women struggle with. Like, how do I create boundaries when I'm healing and I'm different than. Maybe not the same Phoenix as when I was 13? And now everybody's like, who is this new person? So how do we. What advice would you give to women who are like, I don't know how to create boundaries around my spirit, my new self?
- [31:54]
Phoenix White
Yeah. You have to find where you fit. So say you having a conversation with your mom. So I had this issue with my mom a long time ago. We've moved past it, and she's like, she's grown in such a beautiful way.
- [32:07]
Sheila Marie
Yay, mom.
- [32:10]
Phoenix White
But she. This was some years ago. There was something that I was doing that didn't involve her, but it triggered her from something having to do with my dad. Actually, no, I'm going to tell a different story. This is more recent. Okay. So recently, I had made a post on my Instagram, and it talked about how I was raped, how I was molested, how, like, all these things, right? My family saw this, and I'm like, this is nothing new. It's in my book. Like, I'm thinking nothing of it. This is the story that we all know. Apparently not in my family. So I was gone. I was in Peru, and there was just all this chatter that I didn't know about going on in my family of people thinking that my dad had molested me.
- [32:55]
Sheila Marie
Oh.
- [32:57]
Phoenix White
And I'm like, why would y'all think that if my dad is my best friend? You know? Like, everyone knows my dad is my best friend, right? So I'm like, why are you guys spreading this particular gossip? Right? My dad gets on the phone with me. My mom calls a meeting, and I'm like, what is happening here? Like, this. Mom, you read my book. Like, you. Like, I don't understand what's happening. Like, why is this such a big deal? It literally just says, I was molested, raped, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It. It literally only said One word. It wasn't even in detail. It was just one word in my little paragraph. Right. Everybody's in an uproar. And I was talking to my dad, and he said, why are you telling people that that didn't happen to you? And I was like. He was like, you shouldn't be writing stuff like that on social media. And I was like, dad, it did happen. It just didn't happen by you. And I didn't tell anybody about it because you would have tried to kill somebody. And I'd already got taken away, put in a foster home. Not a foster home. We went to a foster home for a short period. Period of time. Sent to Texas to live with other people who told me that I was the reason why we were taken away, because my dad was trying to do things to me. Like, all these things that were pumped into my head as a child, and I'm trying not to be all over the place, but all these things that were pumped into my head as a child. It's like, you don't know what I went through. No one asked me was I okay. Right. So what you can't do, and I understand your position, what you can't do is tell me not to talk about it because it's a part of my ministry. But what I will do is I will put in a little quote and I will say, not by my family.
- [34:38]
Sheila Marie
I did see that. I did see that. You.
- [34:40]
Phoenix White
So that was the adjust, but that was what I was willing to do. I'm not willing to take it down because this is my truth. Rather, it makes you uncomfortable or not. My intention is not to hurt you, but I have to honor my truth. Right. And so that I got sent to foster homes, and it was a whole thing. Like, it was a lot that I went through that no one asked me was I okay or how I felt about it.
- [35:04]
Sheila Marie
Yeah. I think that with the advent of the Internet and social media, that we're able to share our stories more broadly and widely. A lot of women in my cohort, like, a lot of millennials, are finding similar struggles. Like, I. This is what happened to me, Mom. And your mom's like, why are you telling my business? This happened to me in my book. This happened to me in my family. Same thing. And it's like, where does the line draw between sharing your story as a part of your authentic journey and your healing and then protecting the people you love? And what I say is, it's not always our job to be understood. It's our job to be honest. It's our job to live our truest self. And if that. And sometimes when we're trying to create a path that we haven't seen before and make space for women in there, we have to share in order to do that. But I do think. I do want to acknowledge for me personally, that my attempt on that was clumsy in the beginning, and I made a lot of mistakes. But I am still working on that boundary part with my parents as well. So shout out to you, little sister.
- [36:09]
Phoenix White
But you know what's also beautiful, though? It's when we had our meeting, it was the first time our family ever talked about it as a family. And so what, it opened up. So, yes, it was uncomfortable for everyone, but what it opened up was an opportunity to actually be heard and to hear everyone else. Yes, My mother had never told her side of the story. My dad had never told his side of the story, and they for sure hadn't told each other the side of the story. So I got to sit in this uncomfortable situation. Even though I was at the nucleus of it, they still gave me actual information that I never had. I got to hear how it made them feel. My dad got to hear my mom defend him, even though it was, like a thing going back between them. They didn't even know. So I got to. So it got to be such a beautiful opening of connection and communication just for me being honest.
- [37:05]
Sheila Marie
Right?
- [37:06]
Phoenix White
And they got to hear, oh, yeah, she was raped on her graduation night. Dad, do you want me to tell you what happened? He was like, why did I know about that? We had already been sent to a foster home the last time something happened. I'm not telling y'all nothing. I'm not doing nothing. I don't wanna be responsible for the family being broken apart again.
- [37:23]
Sheila Marie
I am so sorry that that happened to you.
- [37:26]
Phoenix White
Oh, thank you. I really am. But I've gotten to the point to where it really doesn't trigger me at all, because it's become. It's become this liberated space because I decided to honor my truth. It's not a weakness for me. It's not a. It's sad that it happens, but it also makes me relatable. Now I can understand when someone else is going through something like that.
- [37:53]
Sheila Marie
Yes.
- [37:53]
Phoenix White
I think I can speak to and be like, girl, I totally, 1000% understand what you're going through. Let me tell you what I did, you know? Let me tell you how to work on healing that part of you. And a lot of that is just honesty and being willing to communicate it and being open to actually healing it, because some of us are very comfortable within the victimization or the things that have happened to us. And that's not an easy thing to say. It's not a judgment. It is. I'm comfortable in that sad story.
- [38:22]
Sheila Marie
Yes.
- [38:23]
Phoenix White
Right. I'm not comfortable in the sad story. It's like, okay, yeah, I went through it, but I had to move past that because I can't continue to be a victim, because that trickled into a lot of my relationships for a very, very long time, where I was attracting people who were lying on me and doing things and saying things were happening that wasn't happening. That all started from that one lie that was trickling in my family or community when I was a little girl and being told that I was responsible for something that never happened. You know, you get what I mean? And so that trickled into everything. Me choosing to be responsible for things that I wasn't even responsible for.
- [39:03]
Sheila Marie
Yeah. I think that for me, I just decided at a certain point, like these. There might be terrible things that have happened in my past. But I just was like, I refuse to. I just. I'm an Aries, and I don't like being controlled. And I was just like, I feel like I'm controlled by these things, unless I treat them like adornments on a crown, unless I wear them proudly, and unless I can move forward and do something with them. So I absolutely relate. I want to ask you if we could switch to plant medicine for just a second course. So before we go any further, can you give your personal definition of what is plant medicine?
- [39:41]
Phoenix White
So there's. I study more of the ancient version of it. So plant medicine for me is. It's the bridge between worlds. It's like a bridge between worlds, between this world.
- [39:59]
Sheila Marie
Like Avatar.
- [40:00]
Phoenix White
Yeah. Like, between this world and the spiritual world. Right. It's a bridge in between. And I look at plant medicine as, like, someone who's like, a guide, an ally. That's how I look at plant medicine. It's an ally in your world. It's not there to be disrespected. It's there to be honored. You know, it's. It is, like I said before, one of the most intelligent species on the planet. It is. It is, to me, like an entity.
- [40:31]
Sheila Marie
But how would I know, like, what plant is plant medicine? Like, which plants are plant medicine?
- [40:36]
Phoenix White
Oh, you. You'll know because you can't access all of them.
- [40:40]
Sheila Marie
Oh, okay.
- [40:41]
Phoenix White
No, okay. So I'm like.
- [40:43]
Sheila Marie
I'm like, is eating. Is eating plant Based plant medicine. Like, you know what I mean? Or.
- [40:48]
Phoenix White
I got you. So there's psychedelic plant medicine, and there are healthy plants that are used as medicine as well.
- [40:54]
Sheila Marie
Okay.
- [40:54]
Phoenix White
So you can. You can eat certain foods, certain herbs and things like that that are healthy for your body, that help you to detox. Like there are those that help with brain cognition, that help with regulating your nervous system. Those like your teas and your herbs and all that. And then you have plant medicine that is psychedelic plant medicine. Natural psychedelic plant medicine is. The ones that I work with.
- [41:20]
Sheila Marie
Is shrooms. Psychedelic. That's plant medicine, right?
- [41:24]
Phoenix White
Yes. So I. I personally don't call them shrooms.
- [41:28]
Sheila Marie
Oh, okay.
- [41:29]
Phoenix White
No, no, no, don't. Don't feel bad about that. I'm saying I'm just going to give you my descriptions. Your description is yours.
- [41:34]
Sheila Marie
Okay.
- [41:35]
Phoenix White
Have you. Have you done it before?
- [41:37]
Sheila Marie
So I can. I. I never told anybody this, but I did. I did. I don't know what you call them. So I. We were just calling them shrooms.
- [41:44]
Phoenix White
Yeah, call them what you call them.
- [41:46]
Sheila Marie
Okay. So we did shrooms. This is when I was like, back, like in college or whatever. No, no, in my master's. And we went to a park and I didn't even know what this was. It was just like we lived with a bunch of hippies and stuff. And it was so cool. I gravitated towards this big tree, and she was. And shout out to this lady. There was a lady there with her baby. Like, she was just minding her business. And I know she just was like, see this group of high young people frolicking in the grass? Like, what are they doing? Cause we fell in love with this tree. I did, because I felt I could see the tree breathing and I could feel her energy. Like, very maternal. After that day, I became a plant person. To this day, I have never been able to unsee that. Like, I know, like, science backs up the fact that plants breathe. We know this. They're living and breathing. But I saw her taking inhales and exhales. Now when I'm in my plant room, I have a whole bunch of plants. I'm growing up, propagating babies right now. I go in there, I literally feel like sometimes I can hear them screaming. Like, water or, ah, it's too. I need humidity. Like, they talk to me. And I really, honestly, to this day, feel that that genesis of this connection that I have with plants started and that one day I was in the park doing shrooms, and it was amazing.
- [43:07]
Phoenix White
Okay, so that's one way that it happens. So it connects you. It opens you up to things that you can't naturally see. To me, I see everything that's really there that I can't normally see on a normal basis. So, yeah, it's. It's really cool. But it's also the way that you do it, it magnifies it. So if you just go do it, it's not going to be as intentional or as strong as it could be. A lot of people have bad trips when they don't know what they're doing.
- [43:40]
Sheila Marie
I'll be honest. I am in the wellness community. I know a lot of people who've done ayahuasca, and that is the one reason I am so scared. Ayahuasca, because I feel like it's. First of all, I feel like there's a lot of people that you might not know their intentions in the space and wanting to be mindful and respectful of indigenous practices. And then also I'm like, I don't know what I'll find on the other side. Am I really ready? The things I've heard from people who've tried, like, dmt, who've tried ayahuasca for the people who don't know what's ayahuasca, by the way?
- [44:16]
Phoenix White
Ayahuasca is a mix between the ayahuasca vine that grows around a tree. It's kind of like snake like, and the charcutena plant, and they are brewed together. That's what ayahuasca is.
- [44:26]
Sheila Marie
From your. Have you. I'm. I'm sure you've worked with it before as a practitioner.
- [44:31]
Phoenix White
I actually just worked with it in Peru, maybe last month, and it's so.
- [44:39]
Sheila Marie
Okay.
- [44:40]
Phoenix White
So ayahuasca can be the most beautiful experience, or it can really punch you and you can say, okay, that's what I heard. What I need to get done. I think ayahuasca is beautiful. It has this narrator kind of vibe where you have a grandmother type voice. So when I just did it recently.
- [45:01]
Sheila Marie
Are you serious, Phoenix? Cause I feel like I have been watching, like, a lot of documentaries and just hearing people and people, people. The feeling that I get from it is like a harsh father.
- [45:12]
Phoenix White
No, ayahuasca is more feminine. It's a grandmother. Okay. It's a grandmother vibe. So every time that I've ever heard it. So literally, ayahuasca has like this narrator. It's similar to psilocybin, but it's one narrator. Right? It's not like you bouncing all around this one narrator. She comes around and the last time it came around, like, I. Because I'm very, very good with holding plant medicine, because I facilitate. But I just felt it come around and was like, hi. And I was like, whoa. It, like, came around me like a. Like. Like a snake kind of vibe, and it went around me. I'm just sitting there just, like, in my meditative, you know, seat, and it just wrapped around me. It was like, hi. And I was like, oh, you're here now. Okay. Hey. You know, it's like, let's do it. She's like, are you ready to see who you are? Who you really are? Are you really ready to see who you really are? I was like, yep, let's do it. And the stuff that I saw, it was.
- [46:13]
Sheila Marie
Can you describe to us, like, okay, you're there. Put us there. You're in the moment. You've just started your ayahuasca ceremony. Like, what? Tell us. Try to put us in there. For the people who like me, who've never done it.
- [46:24]
Phoenix White
Okay, so it's. First off, the setting is very important.
- [46:30]
Sheila Marie
Oh, yeah.
- [46:31]
Phoenix White
Because who you're around. You're absolutely right. Who you're around, who's leading it, how the tone is set, how it's protected is very important because you are opening up portals, in a sense, right? You're opening up your consciousness. Your brain is starting to fire off and connect in ways that they don't usually communicate. If you want the scientific version. And this means into the. Into another world. You're crossing over into another world. It's like having one foot here and one foot there, right? So you're not, like, totally off the rocker. Of course you can.
- [47:02]
Sheila Marie
But, like, put us there. You, like, what does it feel like?
- [47:05]
Phoenix White
The very last one. The very last one, I was in the position where I was guardian as well as participant. So what that means. So I was going in and out of both. So I was protecting the door. So the shaman is in front of me. The other facilitators are all in the front. I'm in the back, directly in front of the shaman, protecting the door. So what that means for me is nothing that's supposed to be here from the spirit world is allowed to enter. I protect it. So what I saw, which is very interesting, because once you start doing plant medicine, you start realizing that you can. I call it cellular memory. Like, you download the information into your cellular memory, and you're able to pop that back up at any time. So I don't necessarily need plant medicine a lot. I'm not walking around Taking plant medicine all the time. I don't need to. You can tap back into those spaces. So when I was sitting there meditating, before I ever took it, I literally saw. And this is gonna sound so crazy, but it was amazing. I literally saw.
- [48:07]
Sheila Marie
Well, you're in the right place for.
- [48:09]
Phoenix White
Oh, I was turnked up, let me tell you. I was so turned up. And plus, I was in Peru and Machu Picchu, and just all kinds of shit was happening. It was like I was just opening up. But I saw myself split into four. This is before I ever took it. And I was like, ooh, you got new gifts. You can do new shit now. Okay, cool. Which typically happens every ceremony, so we call them ceremonies. When we do medicine, we do them as ceremonially. I split into four, and then those four that split across turned into these samurai warriors. So I saw my body split into four, and then they jumped up, and they were like samurai warriors with swords. And then, like, three more went behind me. And they were women, and they were. They had, like, spears. I was like, oh, you are badass. You're not even on ayahuasca yet. You just tapped in, right? So I was like, I'm. I really gotta do that much. I'm protecting the door. Like, the door is protected, and nothing getting past. Ain't nothing getting past me, right? And then I saw. When the ayahuasca kicked in once, he gave it to me. Because the shaman, what they'll do is they'll look at you, they'll connect with you, and they'll decide how much you should have. So it's. It's like a liquid. It's like. To me, it tastes like melted raisins. It tastes like. Like a warm. Not warm, but like a prune juice that's been.
- [49:31]
Sheila Marie
It's like that, okay?
- [49:32]
Phoenix White
To me. And so he can give you this much. This much could be like, whoa, in a little shot glass. Think of a shot glass. That's. That's how much it is. But, like, this much in a shot glass. So he was looking at me and he was pouring, and he was like. I was like, oh, you going hard on assistant? Because the last time I was. You know, you don't know. But the last time. The first time I did it, it was a little different.
- [50:01]
Sheila Marie
Okay?
- [50:02]
Phoenix White
It was a little harsh. You know, this one was so gentle and loving and easy. But I think it had a lot to do with the shaman that was doing it, because he had this beautiful, soft, kind spirit. Whoever is brewing it is just, like, mushrooms. Their energy goes into this, and it becomes, like, working together with it. Whoever grows your mushrooms, their energies go into it, and it becomes like, one, in a sense. So once he gave it to me and that, she came around like, hello. And I was like, hey, do you want to see who you are? I was like, yeah, I'm here for it. You know, I'm always ready to go. I started seeing things that made me feel like I was just an ego. I was like, there's no way I can be all of these things. There's just. No, it's just impossible, right? She was like, you are the ruler. You are the warrior. You are this, and you are the that, and you're this. And then they took me up to what they call the Galactic Federation, and I was like, what am I doing here? It was just all of these things. And it's interesting, when I go and look up the things that I saw and see that other people have experienced similar things, I'm like, okay, this was real. You know, it's so long of an experience. I saw my dragon. I have a white dragon named Akasha. I saw Akasha. Yeah. I saw different parts.
- [51:26]
Sheila Marie
Come on, Daenerys. Smother of dragons. Come on.
- [51:29]
Phoenix White
But it's. It. It tied into things I had previously saw. So it starts to put all these stories together, all these things. All the. All these things that I had been seeing and knowing and dreams that I had been having. I realized a lot of my dreams weren't just dreams. They're memories. So they're not dreams for me. They're just. You're remembering past lives. You're remembering things that you've already done. This is why you know how to do this. You've always been doing it. This is why you're drawn to places with pyramids, because you were in Egypt for a long. You know, this is. It makes things make sense. And so my last ayahuasca ceremony wasn't about healing the different parts of myself, except for one area, which was allowing myself to step into my true calling and be okay with people having reverence for me in that way, that was the harder. The harder part is allowing people to have reverence for me as a queen, which was weird. So when people started saying, hey, Queen of radical liberation, like, that is so fucking weird. Like. Like when people say, hey, Queen. I went to the store, and it's like, hey, Queen. I was just like, okay. It was, like, icky weird for me at first. And it was like, you got to get used to being the ruler because that is how you're going to change lives. Okay.
- [52:52]
Sheila Marie
I absolutely agree with that. And so we are in this podcast, we are talking to black women. Okay. And I feel that this should have been said earlier, because I think there's a segment of black women who are not even going to hear this, not even going to get this far, because if I say plant medicine, I think there's a stigma, especially in the black community, that it's demonic, it's devilish, it's bad for you. Like, you know, weed is a gateway drug, et cetera, et cetera. And so I wonder, how do you speak to those women? Because I believe, as you argue, that some of this stuff is ancestral. This is not new. This is us rediscovering what we've already known. So what do you say to women who hear you talk about plant medicine and go, absolutely. Oh, absolutely not?
- [53:39]
Phoenix White
Yeah. In the beginning, that was my biggest fear, is because originally I grew up very Christian, and then I decided I can't be in any particular religion because I feel caged, you know, so. But I am anointed. I am. You know, this is my ministry. This is the stuff that I'm doing. So people do see God in me when I'm doing my work, but you have to be open to experience me. You can't judge me based off of what I'm. What I'm doing. You have to go off of like, okay, let me see, like, how is she making me feel? Right. And I don't really make a lot of people uncomfortable. What I thought was gonna be a challenge, which I thought was gonna be very highly judged. I found that a lot of people, in secret, actually really want to do it, but they just can't say it out loud. So if I put up an event, I'm getting a lot of DMs, but I'm not getting a lot of likes on the posts. It's very, very under the radar. Like I said before, I've had pastors come to my ceremonies. I've had spiritual leaders. I've had people who just operate in Christianity, let's say Christianity. I've had people who don't believe in God at all. And then they're like, oh, my God, everything is conn. You know, like, it.
- [54:51]
Sheila Marie
Just like the underground spiritual railroad.
- [54:54]
Phoenix White
Yeah. But I think people deliberations. That's the thing. When we come to this work as being who we are, people trust us.
- [55:03]
Sheila Marie
Yes.
- [55:04]
Phoenix White
So the people that would have never gone into the jungle the way I did it, and with some shaman lady Speaking in certain prayers and doing all kinds of what they would call weird shit. I'm a little different. So in my ceremonies, I'm anointing people. Before my ceremonies, I'm anointing them with oil because it's a part of my thing. Right. So I'm taking my practices and the things that I believe and mixing them with the ancient practices that I learned. But you have to make it your own magic. So those people are trusting and coming to me because they're like, well, she don't look crazy. She looks more liberated. She looks happier. She looks. You know, they're looking at you as being the example of what you do, so they don't feel as.
- [55:47]
Sheila Marie
Which is why it's so important to have black women in these spaces.
- [55:51]
Phoenix White
Yes. I think that more black women actually will watch this podcast because they're going to see a black woman talking about it. But if you were talking to someone who was white, then it probably different. I'm like, I don't want to hear this person. She doesn't relate to me, you know? But in. In ceremonies, I get so many black women who are like, I'm terrified.
- [56:11]
Sheila Marie
I'm happy to hear that.
- [56:12]
Phoenix White
It's so many black women and you. But. And it's mixed. So I get a mixture of different types of people. But I see the groups. The different groups, what they all kind of suffer with. It's very similar. The black women are the heaviest. They have the heaviest traumas. They have the heaviest energy. They are fighting for their lives in these ceremonies. And when I say fighting for their lives, I mean it's the emotional, spiritual, and physical battle that they're going through during these ceremonies when they're facing themselves. And that's what's. That's what's happening in these ceremonies. You're coming face to face with yourself. You can't put ego first in the ceremony. It won't even allow you to. When you do plant medicine.
- [56:52]
Sheila Marie
Wow. I feel like you've given us so much, and I. At the end of this episode, I definitely want to know. We're going to want to connect with you and know where we can find you and practice with you. This is the section of the podcast where we leave them with a toolkit. So this is maybe something simple that they can. An actionable, practical tool that they can take with them.
- [57:13]
Phoenix White
Okay.
- [57:15]
Sheila Marie
Anything maybe related to holistic wellness or plant wellness, whatever you want to throw at them, but something that they can walk away with. Like, I like what she's talking about. Let me Implement it into my life.
- [57:26]
Phoenix White
So three things would be the first thing. I feel like people really need to pause and be present. Such a theme lately, regulating your nervous system and just pausing and just. Just stop. Sometimes people are doing so much healing work and they're trying and trying and trying. It's just like that is getting them nowhere when they really just need to sit and be still and just be present. Just like when we talked about in the beginning, being able to see things that are actually around you. So being in this particular moment, not necessarily having to work this moment. You get what I'm saying?
- [58:03]
Sheila Marie
Yes, I do. I'm the one who needs that message. Absolutely. Be present.
- [58:08]
Phoenix White
Stop trying so hard. Just.
- [58:11]
Sheila Marie
You know what? Honestly, for the past year, I've been not trying as hard. And I have a podcast, I have a book. I have so many a book tour. And I am trying less hard than I have ever. It's very interesting and it's flowing. Thank you for all of the wisdom that you shared and just being so vulnerable and open with your story and reminding us that plant practices, these ancestral practices, have always been our own. And there's something that is important for us to reconnect to Phoenix. I think that so many people are going to be looking for you and asking for you. Can you tell. And me too, because I'm in Atlanta. Can you share? Where can we work with you? Where can people find you?
- [58:49]
Phoenix White
Yeah, you can. For my plant medicine work, you definitely can go to these, which is. And you'll see like, we have over like 400 reviews on there. We have. We've done a lot of people, so you'll be able to hear directly from people and read their stories. As far as references go, I have a new website that's going to be up by the time this comes out. It's iamphoenixwhite.com where you'll get to see meditations and different practices and some more savage, radical, liberated practices is on there. And. Yeah, and Instagram. I'm more active on Instagram, which is Enix White.
- [59:30]
Sheila Marie
Are you doing any ceremonies locally in Atlanta?
- [59:33]
Phoenix White
I am doing more private ceremonies. So say if you had a couple people, you wanted to get together to do them to do a ceremony, I would basically build that whole ceremony around you and just the people you have.
- [59:44]
Sheila Marie
Oh, I might need to tap into my Atlanta unruly crew, see if anybody want to get together and do a ceremony with you.
- [59:51]
Phoenix White
We keep it at no more than like around 20 is the most that we will allow. So that we can give every. Because I have to work with a single person. Yep. And it's six hours long. Just.
- [60:04]
Sheila Marie
Oh, no big deal.
- [60:06]
Phoenix White
Time just goes real fast. But it's a six hour long ceremony and then we do integration.
- [60:13]
Sheila Marie
Okay, awesome. So definitely if you're in Atlanta, you can hit up Phoenix or we can maybe plan something. And Phoenix, I'm just happy that you are here. Thank you so much for being on our ruley and sharing your journey and your light and I just stay connected because this is not the last time we're gonna work together.
- [60:32]
Phoenix White
Yeah, I feel like we've been needing to be connected for a while. Like I've been following you for about like five or six years actually.
- [60:38]
Sheila Marie
Yes. I love it. Thank you. And to our unruly fam, let this be your reminder that healing is not about perfection. It's about reconnection. Okay. Whether it's through breath or plant, healing or ceremony, take this with you towards your next step to being whole. If you love this episode, please share it with someone. Like literally in the app you're listening to right now, hit share. Text them this episode. Tag us on socials. Comment Leave some love, stay bold, stay grounded, and stay unruly until next time. If you have something on your mind, a question or something you want me to answer, just send in a voice note@speakpipe.com unruly I can't wait to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you never, ever, ever, ever miss an episode of Un.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Ryan Seacrest
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Bartesian
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Ryan Seacrest
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Bartesian
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Ryan Seacrest
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