13: Change Your Mind, Change Your Life ft. Koya Web

Summary

Podcast Summary: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE – Episode 13: Change Your Mind, Change Your Life ft. Koya Webb

Introduction

In Episode 13 of Unruly with Shelah Marie, host Shelah Marie welcomes holistic health coach, yoga teacher, and author Koya Webb. The episode delves deep into personal growth, mindfulness, overcoming fears, and creating inclusive spaces for Black women. This episode, recorded just before the turn of the year, revisits profound conversations aimed at inspiring listeners to embrace self-love, acceptance, and holistic wellness.

Guest Introduction

Shelah Marie introduces Koya Webb, highlighting her work and impact:

“Koya is a holistic health coach, a yoga teacher, and the author of Let Your Fears Make You Fierce. Her work empowers me and many others to use mindfulness and meditation to transform our fears and live fully.” ([02:32])

Koya reciprocates the warm welcome, reminiscing about their initial meeting in Atlanta and congratulating Shelah on her upcoming wedding.

Personal Struggles and Healing Journey

The conversation shifts to Koya’s personal journey with fear and self-doubt, particularly her experiences with depression and trauma. She shares a poignant moment:

“The last time I really had a profound moment was where I faced my fears... sharing about my persistent depression on stage in front of a sold-out audience.” ([03:59])

Koya discusses the impact of a difficult breakup and subsequent personal betrayals, leading her to confront long-standing trauma. She emphasizes the importance of deeper healing work:

“When trauma comes up at any stage in life, it's just a sign that you have to do some deeper healing work... and you heal for your lifetime.” ([06:00])

Mindfulness and Its Meaning

Exploring mindfulness, Koya defines it as being present:

“Mindfulness is presence. It's just about like, being present to your breath, how your body feels, how your mind feels.” ([11:27])

This definition underscores the essence of mindfulness as staying grounded in the current moment, enhancing self-awareness and connection.

Reframing Fear as a Catalyst for Growth

A significant portion of the discussion centers on transforming fear into a tool for personal development. Koya describes fear as a friend that signals areas needing attention:

“Fear shows up. It's like, hey, sis, I'm unhealed here... So I like to look at fear as my best friend.” ([12:44])

By engaging with fear rather than avoiding it, individuals can address underlying issues and foster growth. Koya shares her strategy of communicating directly with her fears to overcome procrastination and self-doubt.

Creating Safe Spaces for Black Women

Shelah and Koya address the necessity of creating inclusive and affirming environments for Black women. Koya recounts her transformative experience at Black Girls Run, a running club that fosters sisterhood:

“Black Girls Run was the first time where I was speaking at the event... and I was embraced.” ([21:53])

She highlights the importance of vulnerability and transparency in building trust and support among Black women, countering historical isolation and microaggressions.

Joy and Play in Wellness

The conversation transitions to the critical role of joy and play in the wellness journey, especially for Black women whose worth is often tied to their productivity:

“To reclaim our joy is resistance. It's resistance to the patriarchy... and being in our natural state, like, out in nature.” ([29:53])

Koya encourages integrating joy into daily life, viewing it as a form of self-care and resistance against societal pressures. She shares her practice of incorporating play into her routine to maintain balance and fulfillment.

Practical Mindfulness Toolkit

To provide listeners with actionable steps, Koya leads a simple mindfulness exercise combining breathwork and affirmation:

1. Positioning: Close your eyes, place your right hand over your heart and your left hand over your right.

2. Breathing: Take a deep inhale through your nose, audibly exhale through your mouth ([44:11]).

3. Affirmation: Repeat the affirmation together:

   “I deserve the best life has to offer in every area of life.” ([44:11])

This toolkit emphasizes the accessibility of mindfulness practices, adaptable to any busy schedule.

Conclusion and Takeaways

As the episode wraps up, Shelah expresses gratitude for Koya’s insights, highlighting the power of finding stillness amidst chaos and integrating mindfulness into daily life. Koya shares final thoughts on abundance:

“Abundance is in every area of life. And when you look at it like that, you experience abundance at a core level. And that, to me, is real joy.” ([40:54])

Key Quotes:

• Koya Webb on Facing Fear: “Fear shows up. It's like, hey, sis, I'm unhealed here... So I like to look at fear as my best friend.” ([12:44])
• Mindfulness Defined: “Mindfulness is presence. It's just about like, being present to your breath, how your body feels, how your mind feels.” ([11:27])
• Joy as Resistance: “To reclaim our joy is resistance. It's resistance to the patriarchy... and being in our natural state, like, out in nature.” ([29:53])
• Abundance: “Abundance is in every area of life. And when you look at it like that, you experience abundance at a core level. And that, to me, is real joy.” ([40:54])

Final Thoughts

This episode of Unruly offers a rich exploration of personal transformation through mindfulness, the redefinition of fear, and the creation of supportive communities for Black women. Koya Webb’s candid sharing encourages listeners to embrace vulnerability, prioritize joy, and implement practical mindfulness practices to enhance their well-being.

Listeners are encouraged to leave questions or comments via SpeakPipe for potential feature in future episodes, fostering a community of shared growth and support.

Connect with Koya Webb:

• Website: chloeweb.com
• Instagram: @chloeweb
• Book: Let Your Fears Make You Fierce: How to Turn Common Obstacles into Seeds for Growth.

Stay Unruly:

Shelah Marie invites listeners to subscribe, share, and engage with the podcast to continue spreading the message of self-love and holistic wellness.

Transcript

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[Sheila Marie]

Welcome to Unruly.

I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for Black women, and the founder of the.

Curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've.

Learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing.

Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly.

I cannot believe it. Literally 2025 is in five minutes. Do you know you have five minutes? Will, in all seriousness, I hope that you are having a great holiday season and whatever that looks like for you over here. At Unruly, we are all closing down, clocking out, but we are closing out the year by replaying a couple of my absolute favorite episodes from earlier in the season. These conversations hold a special place in my heart and I hope they do for you as well. I hope you enjoy revisiting them as much as I enjoyed recording them.

And I'm honored to be joined today by the beautiful and lovely Koya Webb. Koya is a holistic health coach, a yoga teacher, and the author of Let yout Fears make you Fierce. Her work empowers me and many others to use mindfulness and meditation to transform our fears and live fully. So if you've ever struggled to find your calm in the storm, or if you're curious about how to cultivate more peace and purpose in your life, then this episode is for you. Let's discover together how we can go inward, quiet that noise and find the clarity that we need to live fully and freely. Welcome to Unruly Koya. We're so happy to have you.

[Koya Webb]

Oh, thank you, Sheila. That was so beautiful. You're so beautiful. I just love you.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, same friend. I think this is a really Beautiful full circle moment. Because I think the last time we saw each other was in the Atlanta airport. Yeah, Yeah. I, I wasn't even living in Atlanta at the time. I was still living in Florida and I was coming to visit the house that I live in now and I ran into you. So here we are.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah, yeah, here we are. And I was, I was just moving from LA and I was just like, you know what? It's time for a change. And here we are both in Atlanta.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes, ma'am. And I also. Before we get into the questions, I want to say congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

[Koya Webb]

Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah.

[Koya Webb]

Your.

[Sheila Marie]

Or your wedding? Your Upcomin wedding. That's what you say?

[Koya Webb]

Yes. Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

It's.

[Koya Webb]

It's exciting, it's scary. It's all the things you know.

[Sheila Marie]

Is it? I actually want to ask you about that. We'll get into it a little. Not too much, you know, I'm saying a little demure. We keep it very cutesy, very mindful, very demure. Koya, I followed you for years and one thing that really resonates with me, I'm like, I'm the same kind of person. Is how open you are about your personal struggles, especially around fear and self doubt, which I relate to because I am like a. A former member of the imposter syndrome community. So I wanted to know if you can share with us a moment where you felt yourself shifting from fear into power.

[Koya Webb]

Oh my goodness. I mean, that's such a great question because it happens so many times. And I believe, like I'm in this constant evolution, like I'm committed to growth and evolution in this lifetime and always showing up as a fullest version of myself. So I'll talk about the last time and we can go back to other times, but the last time I really had a profound moment was where I faced my fears. What was? Sharing about my persistent depression on stage in front of a sold out audience. And I just felt like it was so important to share because I am a high functioning person that also deals with depression. And I thought it was important to share because, like, people will feel like I have it all together and I look like I have it all together and then I'll disappear for a little while or I get quiet for a little while and they'll be like, oh, like you know what happened, but I'm still functioning. For instance, like during the pandemic, I had a team of 21 people and I did this huge online get loved up yoga and meditation and mindfulness retreat. You were a Part of it, yes, I remember get loved up and and it was successful. We had 8,000 opt ins. Each session had 4 to 500 people in it. It was virtual. We had international audience. And you would look at me after doing a successful event like that and think, oh man, she must be so stoked. She must be so happy. And like the next day I was in my bathroom and I just bawled. I was crying, I was so unhappy. And even though I did this event, it was so hard. I experienced so much betrayal and I was alone. I felt like I was experiencing it all by myself. I just went through a very nasty breakup with a narcissist and I felt like crap. And I was just like, okay, I had this big business success but I'm lonely. I was so in my business. I really had nurtured deep like sisterhoods and friendships with women in my life. And so I just felt like nothing. And I just allowed myself to cry and I allowed myself to be vulnerable. And I said I need to heal, I need to heal. So even though I'd done all the yoga, all the meditation expert teacher, I realized that no, this trauma is coming up. And this is what I teach. When trauma comes up at any stage in life, it's just a sign that you have to do some deeper healing work and you heal for your lifetime. You heal healed for lifetime generations before you. And so when that came up, I already knew what to do. I was like, all right, here we go, here we go again. And I did not know, Sheila, that it was going to take two years. That's a whole journey. But I literally started there and was like, I want romantic partnership. But I knew because I experienced assault and because I kept choosing narcissistic men that it was a pattern. I was like, I need to break this pattern. And going through the pandemic and experiencing all, all the microaggressions and learning that I normalize microaggressions. I mean I was just waking up to so much that I wasn't really fully aware of. Like I thought I knew, but I didn't know. And when I started really diving deep into why I felt unsafe and why I felt not enough, I really uncomfort girl, you have been living and normalizing trauma for 40 years and it's time for you to address that. So yeah, that was my last bout for you.

[Sheila Marie]

I really resonate to that. I definitely resonate to that. I talk about in the opening of my book that what the moment that started my entire self love journey was being in an abusive relationship and like having an out of body moment where I felt like I saw my mom in him and I was like, wow, this is a pattern, this is a belief that I have been interacting with, dancing, with, co creating with for all these years. And like whatever I have to do to, to not replay this, I'm going to do it. With that said, I wanted to ask you something. You mentioned that you've been on this journey with depression for a long time, that this particular bout, like you were dealing with it for two years. And one thing that I'm thinking about a lot in my journey is like, when is it enough when it comes to healing? Sometimes it can feel like this never ending cycle, like you're gonna be a forever fixer. And what do you say to that? Like, is there ever a moment where you say, you know what? I've done the self work, I'm just gonna live now, or how do you navigate that?

[Koya Webb]

I love that question because a lot of people have different views on it, but my view is that it's a choice. Healing is a choice. And we're not healing just for ourselves. We are healing for humanity. And you don't have to be quote, unquote, healing so deep all the time. Like I truly, I'm working on my second book now and I, I teach that it go. We go through cycles. We go through a healing cycle, a building cycle and a thriving cycle. And even though I just went through the last healing cycle, the last two years, it doesn't mean I wasn't thriving. I was thriving just at a different level. But things look different. And I think it's important to talk about the different cycles of the, of our journeys in life. Because just like nature, everything is cyclic. We don't have winter all the time.

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Some.

[Koya Webb]

All the time. Some places do, some places don't, some people do, some people don't. So depending on what you're supposed to experience in this lifetime, you might go through deeper healing than someone else. But it is always a choice. You can go through life and experience the same trauma over and over again, or you can decide to go deeper and heal it when it shows up for you.

[Sheila Marie]

You talked about healing being cyclical and I think that that's beautiful. And I did not really understand that lesson fully until I moved to Georgia. I grew up in Florida my entire life.

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[Sheila Marie]

There are no seasons and everything. It's like sunny 90 degrees every single day. And I have plants. You're a plant mama too. And when I came here, I got so shook my first winter, I thought all my plants were dying. Why are they not like new leaf? And it was like, girl, that's how nature work, girl. You don't expect your plant to be full, thriving, producing new leaves year round. It's completely normal and healthy to have cycles. So I love that reframe. I want to ask you about mindfulness, because that's why we're here.

[Koya Webb]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

And I feel like mindfulness is such a buzzword, which is, like, good, but also when a term gets incorporated into pop culture and popular media, sometimes it loses its meaning. So for you, from your perspective, what does mindfulness mean to you?

[Koya Webb]

I feel like mindfulness is presence. I feel like we can get caught in the past. Like, you know, we were talking about healing. When you're healing a lot, you're dealing with things of the past, or, or we can be so anxious, like, about our goals and our mission and everything we want to do. But to me, mindfulness is present. It's just about like, being present to your breath, how your body feels, how your mind feels. And just being present is being mindful. Being present with you is like listening to you or whoever you are in front of and just really not checking your phone, not worrying about you talking to me. Right?

[Sheila Marie]

You're talking to me.

[Koya Webb]

So, yeah, it's presence to me. Like being present with your meals instead of like. And it's fine if people, you know, get, you know, get, have dinner with tv. But also a practice that I like to do is just be present with my food, like, taste it and smell it and share it with my man, you know. And so I think mindfulness is just presence with whatever you experience in the moment and giving it your full, undivided attention.

[Sheila Marie]

Being present. That is such a powerful and simple lesson, especially in today's culture, where we're just constantly multitasking. In your book, let your fears make you fears, you reframe fear as a catalyst for growth.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And I wanted to know if you could speak a little bit about, like, if I hear that, I go, I want to turn my fear as a catalyst to growth. Like, how do we do that?

[Koya Webb]

Yes. Well, I see fear as your best friend. Fear is your best friend. Yes. Fear shows up. It's like, hey, sis, I'm unhealed here. Hey, sis, I'm not cool with that. And it's up to you to say, oh, okay, fear. Why not? What's up? What's going on? Like, what did we. What happened? So why are we afraid of this? And you know what? Emotions are coming up. So if you talk to fear as your best friend, you can face everything and rise versus forget everything and run. And so I like to look at fear as my best friend. So when these emotions of fear, these vibrations. Because I feel like fear is just such a. It's a cliche word, right? But there is envy, jealousy, competitiveness. Like, all these to me are vibrations of fear. All of these things that are outside of love and compassion and generosity are vibrations of fear. And I learned this in the course of miracles. But then when you boil it down to fear.

[Sheila Marie]

Come on, Marianne Williamson.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah. You really understand it, you know.

[Sheila Marie]

So when you feel fear coming up, what do you tell it? I once had a healer tell me to conceptualize fear as like a stuffed animal or something on Sesame Street. And just like. Like, just see it in the room with you, like dancing. But it's not scary. It's not going to hurt you, but it's there. So I'm wondering, like, when you feel fear, like, let's say you're doing. You're doing a new. You're writing a new book now, Right. First of all, congratulations.

[Koya Webb]

Thank you. Congratulations. I can't wait to read your book.

[Sheila Marie]

Thank you. And when you feel that fear, do you. Maybe you don't. Maybe you have absolutely no fears. But I know, me, when I was writing my book, there was so many fears that came up. Like, am I going to get it right? Are they going to love it? Are they going to hate it? Does this make sense? So what do you do with it when it comes up?

[Koya Webb]

When it comes up again, I look at it as my best friend. So, okay, okay. Hey, friend, you know, we're friends. What am I afraid of? And for me, I had a lot of trauma around the COVID of my book. And it's like, okay, I'm having anxiety because I didn't get the COVID that I want. And here I am writing a book called Let yout Fears make youe Fierce. And I'm not feeling fierce at all because it's my first book and I'm trying to stand in my power about the COVID and I'm losing. And I completely lost. And it hurt so bad. And I was so disappointed. And so now I was writing my second book. It was like I started. I. I would not finish the proposal because I was so scared that I was going to have another experience like that. And I was like, what am I going to do? And that started making me pause and it started making me procrastinate. And that's the thing, when fear comes up, if you don't address it, you start to procrastinate and you start to belittle yourself and you start to freeze almost. Because when you're in fear state, you freeze. There's fight, flight, or freeze. Right?

[Sheila Marie]

Freeze. And fawn.

[Koya Webb]

And fawn, yes. Know a lot about fawning. So I was just like, me too. No more fawning.

[Sheila Marie]

Hi, people pleasers.

[Koya Webb]

Exactly. I was like, nope. I actually reached out and I talked to someone from the company and I told them about my fear and I told them about what happened. And so I choose to communicate. So first, the thing is, talk to your fear. Ask, like, why are you here? And I needed to address. I need to communicate what happen if I didn't want to repeat what had happened before. And I think it's so important, especially when our fear deals with an entity or a person. We need to communicate. And a lot of times we are afraid to communicate because we don't want to rock the boat. We don't want to upset someone. But a lot of times people don't even know that they've offended you or they don't even know that they've caused you harm. So it's really important to communicate. If you don't feel safe, you can communicate to a therapist or a friend first.

[Sheila Marie]

But.

[Koya Webb]

But it's really important to get it out of you or you can even journal. So I talked to my friend, Fear. We decide like, okay, we're going to address this. We're going to talk to the company. And so when I did, the results were so great. It was like, I'm so sorry you experienced that. That won't happen again. So it was so positive. And so it helped me get past that fear. So I say, face fear. See fear as your Friend, talk to it head on. Don't try to push it away. Say, oh, get away from me. I don't want to have fear. I'm strong. I can do this. Fear shows up for amusement. I say, our emotions are our best friends, too. So if you're sad, you talk to sadness. Say, okay, sadness, what are you teaching me? Okay, frustration. I'm not going to be frustrated. I'm just going to be happy. To me, that's spiritual bypassing. Right.

[Sheila Marie]

And we don't do that. I'm so glad you brought that up.

[Koya Webb]

Right. It's like we don't want to just say, oh, I'm happy. I'm good. No, I'm not good.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm actually toxic positivity.

[Koya Webb]

Right? That's toxic positivity. Like, I'm sad. And so when you speak to your emotions, they stop having power on you and you become partners into figuring out what's going to be best for you. So fear is your friend. And when fear is your friend, that's what makes you fierce. And what fierce is, it's really just love. So once you address fear, you lean into love.

[Ritual Ad]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

This sounds like shadow work, actually in a certain capacity. And have you ever heard of parts work?

[Koya Webb]

Parts?

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, parts work.

[Koya Webb]

No.

[Sheila Marie]

So interesting. It sounds a lot like what you're talking. Similar in concept. But I worked with someone who did parts work before, and like, let's say I'm really stressed out about writing my book. He would talk to that part of me and then we would engage in it and I would be talking to myself through the. It was really far out. Like, he learned this. We. We did several sessions where we talked about it, talked about the fear. So he got to know it. And then in one session, he was me as the fear, and I was talking to me through him as the fear.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And it was just. It was like hearing yourself out loud, hearing your thoughts out loud, and then realizing it's almost like wizard of Oz. Like behind this big scary thing is just. It's just this little baby thing of like, hey, I might be scared. I'm a little, you know, I'm a little nervous about this. And it's not so scary.

[Koya Webb]

I love that it is very similar, you know, and then I don't know if you've done internal family systems, but it's similar.

[Sheila Marie]

That's when I really want to try.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah, it's really about just addressing these different parts of us, like, you know, our inner child, our wounded self. Like different parts of us that may have come up in order to protect us. So we take on different energies and everything about us is trying to protect us and save us. Like you are your best friend. Your body loves you, your mind loves you, your emotions love you. Everything loves you. And I know that's hard because I know when I was a little girl, I was like my own. I was my biggest enemy. I used to have negative self talk. I used to talk about myself, but because other people used to talk about me, you know, being, you know, five, ten, I was taller, I was dark skinned. And so I got teased a lot, I got ridiculed a lot. I Wore A size 10 shoe. My dad thought it was cool to get me size 11 so I can grow into it. So I had these big old shoes. So I got teased a lot. And I think when you grow up getting teased a lot, you have a low sense of self worth and other people talk about you, so you talk about yourself. And when you look in the mirror, you don't love the person that you see. You feel like you have to fix her or you feel like she has to be perfect. And this is something that has scarred me for so, so many years. And honestly, it really wasn't until I turned 40, like during the pandemic where I had this moment where I was like, girl, even though you're doing all this self work and self care, you are still holding on to a lot of trauma and a lot of negative beliefs about yourself. And that's my last bout of healing I had to go to because I realized I had normalized the microaggressions that I experienced since childhood. I mean, since childhood, growing up in Tennessee, I was like one of the few black women in my classes or I was, you know, when I got into wellness, I was one of one or two black women in wellness. Now there are many of us and it's beautiful. But being one of the first was very isolating. And even though people would say things that were microaggressions and very harmful for me, I normalized it because I wanted to be there. I wanted to pave the way, I wanted to make the difference. But I didn't understand how over time that was chipping away at my self worth and I had to deal with that.

[Sheila Marie]

Ashley Blaine Featherson, you know what? You actually led me perfectly into what I was going to ask you next, which is about creating safe spaces for black women. Yeah, that's something that I'm very passionate about with unruly and with the work that I do because I feel that there is a very specific need for black women to feel safe. And if we're not careful, the wellness community can be predominantly white. And so I want to know, how do you go about creating inclusive or affirming spaces for black women where they feel welcome and empowered?

[Koya Webb]

I love that question, because it's really all about vulnerability. You know, it's really all about me not being afraid to be transparent, not being afraid to share my story. And that was actually really hard for me. For some people, it comes easy. For me, it was hard because being a black woman in mostly white spaces, you have to be better than the best to be considered normal, to be considered average. So I was always used to presenting. I got this. I got it. I know this. Studying extra hard, doing more than most and things like that. And so when it came to vulnerability, I felt like, well, if I shared my mistakes or if I share my shortcomings, then I would be labeled as that mistake. And I feel like us as black women, like, when we share, even still to this day, we are look like, oh, she's that. She's that issue. That's her versus people that are not black. It's like, oh, she had a little problem. Oh, she had this little instance with drugs, or she had this little episode, and if you're black and you have something like that happen, you have an episode, oh, she crazy. Oh, she got it together.

[Sheila Marie]

She's a drug addict forever.

[Koya Webb]

Right. You know, and so I just think that I had to not be attached to what people think about me. I had to let go of what people would think about me and realize I know who I am, I know why I'm here, I know my purpose, and I'm going to lean heavily into that. And that's what allowed me to share my vulnerabilities more and being in more spaces with black women. I remember the first time I was in a space because I feel like people that go to HBCUs and people that grow up around groups of people that look like them, they actually have more experience of that safe space, more than someone like myself who grew up in the south. And outside of my family, we were very isolated, and I lived in the country, so it was very isolating. I really didn't learn how to develop friendships until. Until later in life because of that. And so when you grow up like that, you really have to lean into spaces where you feel safe. So I remember Black girls Run was the first time where I was speaking at the event, and I. Before I got on the plane, Sheila, I cried Like, I was so scared because when I was younger, you know, because I was in these class when I went to groups of black women, like, oh, you are Oreo. And girl, I am not light skinned and I am not nowhere near passing. And I was like, what? No, I'm black. Like, look at my look. You know, people call me black. People tell me to stay out of the sun. Like, what are you talking about? But it was because, like, oh, no, you're over there, you're in advanced classes. And you know, I was also a student athlete. It was very isolating. I got bullied a lot for being in advanced classes and being in circles of, you know, people that were non black. And so when I went here, I was like, okay, I don't know if this is going to be a room full of mean girls and I'm going to have to just like, protect myself or if I'm going to be embraced. But of went there and I was embraced. And that was my first experience of being embraced by black women. And I was in my mid-20s. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And so first of all, sorry, go ahead.

[Koya Webb]

I still have friends to this day from black girls run and shout out to that company because it was really a profound and transformational moment for me because I was like, oh, my God. Like, you know, women love me. And not just, of course I have friends, but it's different when you have friends in like a group of people people. Because even in groups of women, I was ridiculed because I'm tall, I'm slim. Oh.

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[Koya Webb]

You skinny. Oh, you're this, you're that. You know, we were poor, we got our clothes from the health and hen so people would talk about my hair and my clothes and it was just, it was so harmful. You know, it wasn't Healthy at all. And so it took me a while to like, heal from that trauma. And being in a group, specifically in that instance, Black Girls run helped me heal and realize there are self safe spaces to be in groups of black women and not feel like you're going to be attacked. Wow.

[Sheila Marie]

So am I right in saying black Girls run is a running club?

[Koya Webb]

Yeah, it's a running club.

[Sheila Marie]

Like where you run without being chased.

[Koya Webb]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, okay. So people run for fun. Wow. Yeah, they ran for fun.

[Koya Webb]

And you really. It was so. It was so profound, like, what they built and they've. I feel like they've sold it or transitioned it since then, but it was so profound to see so many beautiful black women running.

[Sheila Marie]

I really want. And maybe in a parallel universe, there's a version of she Sheilu who just loves running. Like, I think runners, aesthetically, it's so cute. Like, y'all are so cute. Like, oh my God, y'all. It's so cute because y'all put on your little sports bras and stuff and y'all just go outside and run for fun. Yeah, like, there's no one forcing you. I am amazing. I. Y'all are amazing. I. I have tried, baby. Let me tell you how much I. My family right now, if they could hear this conversation, they'd be cracking up laughing because one thing is like, I. I have to force myself to go on the treadmill.

[Koya Webb]

Oh, my God.

[Sheila Marie]

But maybe, maybe I'll meditate and drop into a version of me who likes running and see what that's like.

[Koya Webb]

I mean, I love that you said that because, like, even what was so beautiful there, it was women of all different shapes and sizes. And some women jogged, but some women walked. And it was more so about sisters. I can walk. Exactly.

[Sheila Marie]

So I could be a part of.

[Koya Webb]

Black Girls Run if I walk. Honey. Yes. Okay, it says I can do that, but you could totally walk. You can walk, jog, and some people.

[Sheila Marie]

Walking is my jam.

[Koya Webb]

And that's what's so beautiful about it. It was not about, like, running or being the fastest. It was really about sisterhood.

[Sheila Marie]

And that's so important. And also something that's important I want to touch on is joy and play. I think when we talk about mindfulness, when we talk about spirituality, growth, healing, I feel like we leave behind joy sometimes and play a lot. And we focus on, like, this work. You got to do the work. You got to put in the work. Did you do the work? Are you doing the work? And I think, like, especially me, I'm passionate About joy and play, especially for black bodies. Because I feel that historically, we have been conditioned to associate our worth with our output, how many. Our labor, so how hard I can work. And black women are so proud of how hard they can work themselves. How many things we can accomplish. I'm. I'm. I'm guilty of this. I'm talking to myself, too. And I think we sometimes don't necessarily give the space to joy and play. I remember when, early on in my company's journey, we weren't producing retreats yet. We were just doing, like, day events. And we decided instead of workshops, let's do play shops. And literally, they were so hard to sell. And at the end of it, I asked Justin, you know, Justin. Hi, Justin. Michael Williams, I love you. I was like, justin, I'm having trouble selling my play shops. He's like, sheila, people don't see the benefit in paying for play. Play is not something that is high on our totem pole of, like, needs. They'll pay to work, they'll pay to. To learn, but not to play. And so I want to touch on, because you talk about joy being a radical act, especially for black bodies, and I want to know what made you come to that conclusion, and what do you mean by that?

[Koya Webb]

I feel like to reclaim our joy is resistance. It's resistant to the patriarchy. It's resistance to this consumerism culture. Like us playing and being in our natural state, like, out in nature. Like, yes, we all know I love a good trip, and I love to travel, and I love luxury. But I also. Come on now, you know, I love all of that. But at the same time, I just got back from the Bahamas, and my favorite moments were floating in the ocean, which is absolutely free.

[Sheila Marie]

Now, that's one thing. I'll join you on Koya. You can float.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah. And I floated for longer than I've ever floated in my life. Like, I was out there floating for, like, at least 30 minutes. I was in a float meditation, and I was holding my fiance's hand.

[Sheila Marie]

Unmatched.

[Koya Webb]

Yeah. And I literally start crying. I start having a release. I felt like the ocean was holding me. And the last time I felt this way, I was in Egypt in the Red Sea, which, you know, I call it Kemet, but for those who don't know, Kemet, Egypt. And I was in the Red Sea. It was the first time I floated. And I was told in college that, oh, you know, black people can't float because your bones are dense. And it was a lie. I mean, it might be Harder. Everybody's body is made differently. I was told that it wasn't in a textbook, and I was like, show me where that is. And the teacher showed me. I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was a water safety instructor, and I was like, you know, learning all these things, but to feel like just because I was black, I wasn't able.

[Sheila Marie]

Is that a scientific fact? No, I was gonna say I. Okay.

[Koya Webb]

Wow.

[Sheila Marie]

Shout out to eugenics.

[Koya Webb]

And different people have. Yes, it is true that different people have different bone densities, but it doesn't mean you cannot do something. It depends on the environment, which is what I prove. As I was floating in the Bahamas and the Red Sea because there were more. There's more salt in the water. It's actually easier to float if you have a denser body weight, you know, but we're all different sizes. So just because whenever they did their study, they experienced this. Reality is not the truth for all people. And our bone densities are different. And even us as women, our bones get lighter as we get older. So nothing is absolute. And I think that's important for people to know that feel like, oh, I can't do this or, I can't do that. Nothing is absolute. Literally, you define your reality. And we are breaking through barriers and rules all the time. So don't let anyone tell you that nothing is possible, because all things are possible if you believe they're possible. We have made a way so many times, we've proven even science wrong. And so that's something that I continue to believe to this day. Like, if I really believe something is true and my spirit is telling me something is possible, then I'm going to try it.

[Sheila Marie]

How do you recommend someone could tap into their own radical sense of joy?

[Koya Webb]

I feel like you really have to be okay with being alone. I feel like oftentimes we're looking to social media and our parents and our friends to validate us. And we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And we all have a unique reason to be here. And when we are alone and when we are silent and when we're in meditation, we're tapping into our own unique essence of why we are here and what we are here to do. And when you follow that essence, it will bring you to joy, it will bring you to abundance, and it will bring you to your purpose. But it's all about being okay with solitude. I'm not saying solitude forever, and I'm not saying be a monk and, like, never be around people. I'm just saying have moments in your everyday life. And back to your point, I teach lifestyle design. So in that lifestyle design, you're always doing healing work, you're always doing joy work. You're not waiting for a vacation, you're baking it into the fabric of your everyday life. So every day I have spiritual time. I meditate, I do yoga, I do fitness, I do breath work every single day. Not all the time checking off every box, but whatever I feel like for the day. And then Tuesday through Thursday, I have meetings, I do work, I do call, and other days I do content creation. But every day I play. Every day I do a little bit of work. Sometimes I take a day completely off, but I bake it into every day so I don't have to retreat. I go on a retreat and that's fun, that's a little deeper work, but I bake in self care and joy into every single day of my life.

[Sheila Marie]

That's such a beautiful concept that you're like baking in whatever emotional experience we would want from like a vacation or a trip. How can we build in small pieces of that into our daily life so that you, you build a life that you don't feel the need to escape from. If you do go on a trip, it's an added bonus. It's great, it's fun, but you still have that in your everyday life. I love that. I love that. I once talked to an interior designer who said, make your home so beautiful that no matter where you go in the world, whenever you come back, you're so happy to be here. And I'm like, yes. I mean, however that looks, that looks different, but I just thought that was cute.

[Koya Webb]

I love that actually. I actually believe that and live that. Like, when I come home, I'm happy to be home. I'm happy to see my plants. I'm happy to like, you know, be in my space and be in my bed. My bed is the bomb. You know, I love it here. Curated, right? I've curated it nicely so that I do love it. So I, I agree with your interior designer. That's a great idea.

[Sheila Marie]

And speaking of like daily routines and stuff like that, how would you recommend, like, what would you say, oh, I want to start a meditation and mindful practice or mindfulness practice, but I don't know where to start. I don't have a lot of time. I'm a mom. I got kids, you know, I got morning routines with the kids already. Like, how can I even build this into such a busy life?

[Koya Webb]

That is the best question. Because I work With a lot of moms. 50% of my community are moms. And so I say start in the bed. In the bed. When you wake up, just sit up in bed and you can breathe and meditate. You can do your breath work and meditation right there. You can do your stretching right there. Maybe it's kids right outside your bed, but until you step your foot put on that ground, you are in your happy place. You're in your sacred space in your bed. And so I would say start there. And I literally set this up. I write out wellness prescriptions for my clients. And so I've written this for a lot of women, and it works. They're like, okay, I just set up and I do it myself. Like, sometimes I go down to my space, but sometimes I just sit up in my bed and I meditate and I breathe and I pray. I do my gratitude work right there, right there in bed before I get out. So that's my.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm going to take that biggest tool.

[Koya Webb]

That I think has helped so many people who don't have the time.

[Sheila Marie]

Love that.

[Koya Webb]

And it doesn't have to be 30 minutes or an hour. It can be 10 minutes, it could be 5 minutes. So I think also throw away the fact that it needs to be a certain length to be effective. It needs to be done and preferably consistent. When it's consistent, when it's done, at least 5 minutes, 10 minutes. And then the more you can tackle it, the better. But it's better to be done than not done, and it's better to be consistent that way you build up a habit and you're showing your body, you're telling your body, not just lip service. I love myself. You're showing your body. You love yourself because you're dedicating this time to yourself every day.

[Sheila Marie]

So start in the bed and keep it short and keep it consistent. I love that. I think it's atomic habits. Maybe my husband was reading and he was like, just do it 10 minutes a day. Just start, give yourself 10, 10 minutes. And then if you. At the end of 10 minutes, if you're done, you're done. And I realized, like, I think this was talking about me getting back into, like, my yoga or something. And I was like, after 10 minutes, I'm like, I can stay for another 10 minutes, you know, but if not, you know, it's good to just start there. You are getting married soon.

[Koya Webb]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

How do you feel?

[Koya Webb]

I feel so excited also. It's a lot of work and it's a lot of layers to It. But more than anything, I feel so much excitement and I feel so much gratitude. I mean, I'm 43 and I found the love of my life. I had given up for a moment period. Yeah, I was like, love is not for me in this lifetime. You know, I'm cool with that and I have made peace with it until. But I was honest with myself. I was like, girl, you know you ain't happy. You know you love some romance. You too darn romantic to be single. Like, girl, please stop lying to yourself. And so when I was honest with myself, I was like, I do want this and let me do this healing work. I started through Queen Afua's Sacred Woman and I did the work to heal my relationship with my father, to heal my relationship with my womb because of trauma I experienced. And then growing up.

[Sheila Marie]

You read the book or you did work with her?

[Koya Webb]

I read the book and I went through all the practices and gateways in the book. And she is my spiritual mother and mentor and she will be an officiant at our wedding. Like, she literally so jealous and I didn't know the engagement was going to be when it was, but she was at the engagement. Like, I can't make this up. Like, I like the things that have happened and then transparently, the last two years have been the lowest financial years since I really start scaling my business. But I even in that, I got my dream house and my dream man. So I want to say that because a lot of people put so much success around money. And I love money and I love luxury and I love having an abundance. But at the same time, abundance is not necessarily always money in the bank. I got good credit, so I got a huge house, you know what I'm saying? And I got a dream man. But we on a budget. So I think it's important to note that abundance comes in many different forms. And don't get caught up with one idea of abundance or feel like you're a failure or feel like you're. Some people use the word broke. I say don't say broke. Say budgeting and budget wisely when you're in a season of low financial well being because your body is listening, the universe is listening to you. And so as you're budgeting and you're making smarter decisions with your money because you don't have the extra on the side like you used to to just like wop it off on everything you want to. It also teaches mindfulness as well. And so I'm in this season where I feel more Abundance than I ever have in my life, you know, because I have abundance, my friendships. Remember I told you earlier that I didn't understand how to build sisterhood and I experienced betrayal and all this stuff. Well, I learned everybody end up for you, but you can find those people that are for you in a big way. But you have to be intentional. You have to be discerning. And when I started doing that work and stopped waiting to be invited, but I started reaching out, I started sending out invites, I started crying and saying, look, I need a hug. You know, instead of trying to be Superwoman, I found my people. And so I just think abundance is, you know, and that's what I'm teaching in my next book. Abundance is in every area of life. And when you look at it like that, you experience abundance at a core level. And that, to me, is real joy.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. I. I love this, Koya. I feel like I. I wish I had a notepad right now so I can take my notes to refer to every. All the gems you're dropping. And so you are about to step into a union. What mindfulness practices are you going to take with you to, like, enhance that experience and ground you two as a couple?

[Koya Webb]

Oh, well, we have already started because we're basically life partners now. The celebration is just for our friends and family. And so we have a coach that we see every month that we can talk to outside of ourselves. I think that's really important. Whether it's your minister or a therapist or an intuitive coach or a healer or whatever, you should have someone outside of you that can hold space for your union and can listen to you all together and really help you make commitments. And our guide has us make commitments to each other once a month. Like, what do you need? And we ask for one thing, and I think that is so important in any union to make sure that you're getting your needs met. Because things can get very routine. And when you can have kids, things can get very routine. And I pass that tip on to my clients. And it's been so profound. Like, the feedback from just like, okay, one month, every month, we're going to ask the person, what can I do to you that will make you happier, that will make you feel more fulfilled? Just one thing, and it's. That really takes it to the next level. And also communication, that's our biggest value, is like, communicating how we feel. A lot of times in relationships, you can hold things in. You don't want to rock the boat. You don't want to make them upset. A million other things are going on with the economy and the government and then abcdefz. But you still have to find a time, even if it's once a week, to communicate how you feel the highs and the lows. And I feel like when you do that. And I'd even do it with my team, my small team now seven, not 21, but every team.

[Sheila Marie]

Ooh, still a number divided by seven. I don't know numerology. I was like, ooh, I didn't even.

[Koya Webb]

Notice that you just said it. But every meeting I say, what are your biggest wins of the week? What are your biggest challenges? So we talk about wins and challenges. And so I think that's important in a union. And then having fun. Having fun, having intimacy. Play, you know, what you love. I think you should be doing that every day. Every day in the evening, after five, it's social time. I'm either playing with my fiance or I'm playing with friends or girlfriends. But same, we gotta play every day.

[Sheila Marie]

This is just making me so excited. I feel like I'm getting a lot of affirmation through talking to you too. Like, hey, I'm doing so many things I'm not even realizing that are part of my overall, like mindfulness. There's a period of the day after practices and all the things where we just sit as a family and, like, talk and have fun and joke and play. And I'm like, that don't realize how maybe something that small is so impactful and important. Yeah, I want to get to the toolkit, because a part of being unruly why we're here is to put it into practice. So we like to leave our listeners with something practical and actionable. So do you have either a mindfulness practice or something that you can maybe lead? If you want me, I'll be your test subject. Or if you want to just talk through that, our listeners can walk away. Okay, I loved what Koya said, but how do I put any of this into practice?

[Koya Webb]

Yes, I have a toolkit thing. And it's breathwork and meditation and mindfulness kind of wrapped up in one. And it's super simple, it's super quick. So I invite you to close your eyes and place your right hand over your heart and your left hand over your right. Take a deep inhale through your nose, Audible side through your mouth. Deep and healthy, your nose. Audible side through your mouth. Last inhale through your nose. Hold your breath at the top. Sip in a little more air, and then very slowly, audibly, exhale from the mouth and affirm with me. I deserve the best life has to offer.

[Sheila Marie]

I deserve the best life has to offer.

[Koya Webb]

I deserve the best life has to offer in every area of life.

[Sheila Marie]

I deserve the best that life has to offer in every area of life.

[Koya Webb]

And so it is.

[Sheila Marie]

And so it is.

[Koya Webb]

Ashe. All right, that's it. Ah.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm ready to float off now. You're gonna float.

[Koya Webb]

I'm ready to float off. Do that breath work before every meeting, before every deep conversation. And to me, breath is spirit. So just putting your hands on your heart and breathing it aligns you with spirit so you can speak from a spiritual place versus anywhere else.

[Sheila Marie]

Gems gems on gems on gems. Koya, thank you. This was such an amazing conversation. I want to give a huge shout out to you and for all sharing all your wisdom, all your insight with us and just being here.

[Koya Webb]

Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

Where can we people find you? What are you up to? Is there anything you want to leave the viewers with?

[Koya Webb]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

Or the watchers listeners?

[Koya Webb]

Yes. You can find me@chloe web.com. you can find me on Instagram. I'm there most frequently, but I'm on all the social platforms as well. Like you can find my breath work and mindfulness practice and yoga practices on YouTube as well. And yeah, my website, social media and then. Yeah. And my book is everywhere. Books are sold. Let your fears make you fierce. How to turn common obstacles into seeds for growth.

[Sheila Marie]

Amazing. Thank you, Koya. Personally, I'm walking away with a renewed sense of how powerful it is to find stillness amidst the chaos. And I hope that you took away something from this as well. Thank you to each and every one of you for joining us. Your support means so much to us. Keep living in your truth and always stay unruly.

[Koya Webb]

Stay unruly? Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

If you're enjoying unruly, don't keep it to yourself. We want to spread the unruly doctrine to everybody. So go ahead and send your favorite episode to a friend, to a family member. Share it on socials. Tag us, tag me. And always please subscribe and download the episodes. It really helps us keep our traction going and spread more unruly goodness around. And hey, also one more thing I want to hear from you. If you have a question or a comment or, I don't know, anything you want to talk about that maybe could potentially be featured in a future episode, please go ahead and drop me a voice message.

That's right.

We're going old school. Y'all remember when we used to leave voice messages? Those who remember the ladies of a certain age. Y'all remember when y'all used to set a certain ringtone or a song for your voicemail? Those were the days. But anyway, we're. We're bringing that back. So it's basically like a voicemail. You leave me a voicemail and maybe I'll feature you in a future episode of Unruly. All you gotta do is head over to speakpipe.comunruly.

That'S speakpipe.

Unruly. Record your question. Leave it there. I cannot wait to hear from you. And again, happy holiday season. I'll see you in 2025.