Podcast Summary: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE Episode 20: Not Your Grandma’s Christianity: Reclaiming Faith on Your Terms Release Date: February 18, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 20 of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE, host Shelah Marie engages in a transformative conversation with author and public theologian Danielle Thomas. The episode, titled "Not Your Grandma’s Christianity: Reclaiming Faith on Your Terms," delves deep into the intersections of faith, social justice, and personal liberation, particularly focusing on the experiences of Black women within the Christian faith.

Hymns vs. Gospel Music

The discussion begins with Shelah and Danielle exploring the nuances between hymns and gospel music. Danielle clarifies:

“When I think of hymns, I really do think of traditional in the hymn book... Gospel for me is everything else... contemporary gospel, your traditional gospel, AKA quartet music or traditional sense of choir music."
(04:13)

They highlight how hymns often carry deep, sacred traditions within the Black church, characterized by call-and-response techniques that foster a communal and interactive worship experience.

Call and Response in Church and Theater

Shelah, drawing from her theater background, compares the call-and-response dynamic in Black church services to its presence in theatrical performances. She remarks:

“In the theater, time stops. I'm not checking my phone. I'm thinking, like, oh, my gosh, if they miss their cue... It's such a being present..."
(11:48)

Danielle echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the intimate connection and feedback loop between performers and the audience, paralleling the interactive nature of Black church services.

Danielle Thomas’ Journey: From Church Upbringing to Unfit Christian

Danielle shares her personal journey from growing up in a hyper-religious environment as the daughter of a preacher to deconstructing her faith during college. She explains:

“When I went to college, that was kind of my battleground... I'm either going to find a new way of seeing and understanding God or I'm gonna walk away from this altogether..."
(20:35)

This pivotal period led her to publicly deconstruct and decolonize her faith, giving rise to her movement, Unfit Christian, and her book, "The Day God Saw Me as Black."

Intersection of Faith and Social Justice

Shelah inquires about the importance of intertwining theology with social justice in Danielle's work. Danielle responds by tracing the origins of her activism back to her first social media posts, which criticized the Black church's focus on issues like political apathy over systemic socioeconomic struggles:

“The personal is political and the political is personal... If I am a child of God and made in the image of God, it means that you cannot continue to marginalize me based on the physical phenotypes that I have."
(16:47)

She argues that authentic faith must encompass justice and equity, rejecting any theological framework that perpetuates oppression.

The Role of Women in Faith and Black Church

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the oppressive structures within the Black church that disempower women. Danielle articulates:

“Black women are trying so hard to be good... they are convinced religiously to be subservient instead of walking in partnership."
(33:55)

She critiques patriarchal interpretations of scripture that undermine women's autonomy and highlights how these theological positions benefit systemic hegemony.

Real-World Examples of Church Oppression on Women

Shelah brings up a poignant example from Danielle's book—a 15-year-old girl being shamed for her pregnancy in front of the congregation:

“...repent and confess her pregnancy in front of the congregation... it's very hard to watch... there's the person who got her pregnant missing."
(43:48)

Danielle connects this to broader issues, such as abortion bans, arguing that these actions serve to control women's autonomy and preserve patriarchal power structures.

Deconstructing and Decolonizing Faith

The conversation shifts to strategies for individuals seeking to reclaim their faith. Danielle emphasizes the importance of community and self-inquiry:

“Stop seeking out specific religious community and just seek out community... Form new community in ways you did not have to know when you were going to church."
(72:31)

She recommends resources like her book and "The Spirit of Intimacy" by Sibonfu Somme to guide listeners through the deconstruction process, encouraging them to question who benefits from their oppression and how their beliefs align with their personal liberation.

Personal Spiritual Practices of Danielle Thomas

Danielle shares her spiritual practices, which blend traditional and alternative methods:

• Daily Oracle Card Pulls: Using Oracle cards as a conversational tool rather than a predictive one.
• Journaling: Not daily, but as needed to process emotions and experiences.
• Prayer and Meditation: Maintaining a constant dialogue with the divine.
• Reading and Music: Engaging with a variety of texts and musical genres to find spiritual connection.
• Nature Work: Grounding and connecting with the earth.

“Community is a spiritual practice for me. Real heavy. So not just worrying about myself, but checking in on people that I lead..."
(69:46)

Closing Toolkit and Advice for Listeners

As the episode nears its end, Danielle offers practical tools for listeners embarking on their own faith reclamation journey:

1. Ask Critical Questions:

   • Who benefits from my oppression?
   • How do my beliefs align with my personal growth and purpose?

2. Seek Out New Communities:

   • Join spaces that affirm your identity and focus on justice and liberation.

3. Engage in Deep Reading:

   • Explore literature that challenges and expands your understanding of relationships and community.

4. Practice Self-Compassion and Authenticity:

   • Embrace your true self without seeking external approval.

“Everything else is somebody else's suggestion. But you and God, your creator, who made you... You have to walk in that you don't need permission."
(53:41)

Danielle encourages listeners to embrace their liberation by deconstructing oppressive beliefs and building supportive, affirming communities.

Conclusion

Episode 20 of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE offers a profound exploration of reclaiming faith beyond patriarchal and supremacist confines. Through Danielle Thomas’ candid reflections and insights, listeners are inspired to question, deconstruct, and ultimately redefine their spiritual journeys in ways that honor their true selves and foster holistic well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Danielle Thomas (04:13): “When I think of hymns, I really do think of traditional in the hymn book... Gospel for me is everything else..."
• Danielle Thomas (16:47): “The personal is political and the political is personal... If I am a child of God and made in the image of God, it means that you cannot continue to marginalize me..."
• Danielle Thomas (33:55): “Black women are trying so hard to be good... they are convinced religiously to be subservient instead of walking in partnership."
• Danielle Thomas (43:48): “...repent and confess her pregnancy in front of the congregation... it's very hard to watch..."
• Danielle Thomas (53:41): “Everything else is somebody else's suggestion. But you and God, your creator..."

Where to Find Danielle Thomas:

• Website: UnfitChristian.com
• Social Media: @unfitchristian across various platforms
• Book: The Day God Saw Me as Black available at bookstores like Barnes & Noble and online retailers.

Join the Conversation: Listeners are encouraged to engage with Shelah Marie and Danielle Thomas through social media and to participate in future episodes by submitting questions at SpeakPipe.

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