27: Mediumship, Magic & the Black Spiritual Renaissance ft. Ebony Jasmine Harris

Summary

Podcast Summary: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE - Episode 27: Mediumship, Magic & the Black Spiritual Renaissance ft. Ebony Jasmine Harris

---

Introduction

In Episode 27 of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE, host Shelah Marie engages in a profound conversation with Ebony Jasmine Harris, a medium, eclectic occultist, and religious deconstructionist. The episode delves into themes of spiritual grounding, cultural awareness, personal growth, and the resurgence of black spirituality in contemporary society. Throughout the discussion, Jasmine shares her transformative journey, spiritual practices, and insights into navigating the complex interplay between religion and spirituality.

---

Jasmine Harris's Early Spiritual Beliefs and Deconstruction Journey

Timestamp: [03:50]

Jasmine begins by reflecting on her childhood beliefs, emphasizing her innate sense of magic and collective experiences that felt destined or fated. She recounts observing phenomena in both religious settings and at concerts, recognizing a connection beyond what traditional religion explained.

Jasmine Harris: "Magic has to be real... if you believe enough, something will materialize."
[03:50]

At around age 11 or 12, Jasmine encountered significant theological questions during Sunday school, questioning the fate of her friends from diverse religious backgrounds. The inability of her teachers and even her pastor to provide satisfactory answers propelled her into a journey of spiritual deconstruction.

Jasmine Harris: "It felt like either God didn't want to tell y'all or y'all don't know because God ain't say."
[05:11]

This critical questioning led to a pivotal moment during her time at Bethune-Cookman University, where disillusionment with mandatory chapel services and a shift towards partying resulted in her academic decline. The lack of spiritual answers and personal fulfillment eventually steered her away from conventional religious structures.

---

Spiritual Practices and Tools: Embracing Sex Magic

Timestamp: [06:14]

Transitioning into her adult spiritual practices, Jasmine introduces sex magic as a unique and effective tool in her spiritual toolkit. She discusses the societal taboos surrounding female sexuality and the importance of embracing personal pleasure as a pathway to spiritual manifestation.

Jasmine Harris: "There is a lot of taboo and a lot of hush hush around our sex lives as women... sex magic."
[06:34]

Sex magic, as Jasmine explains, involves using sexual energy to manifest desires. By focusing on personal pleasure and practicing techniques like edging—delaying orgasm to build stronger energy—she believes individuals can harness their creative power more effectively.

Jasmine Harris: "I don't want a half ass orgasm, so I don't want a half ass manifestation."
[08:32]

This practice not only empowers individuals to take control of their own spiritual journeys but also aligns with her broader philosophy of self-love and holistic wellness.

---

Challenges with Mentors and Toxic Groups

Timestamp: [34:25]

Jasmine opens up about her experiences with mentors and spiritual groups, highlighting both positive influences and significant challenges. She recounts her initial guidance from a member of the Elder Gods group, who provided her first spiritual readings. However, her journey was marred by toxic relationships, particularly with a former mentor named Brander, who exploited her for personal gain.

Jasmine Harris: "She was trying to steal the women in the group by bad mouthing me... It was a big ass mess."
[38:27]

These negative experiences underscored the importance of choosing trustworthy mentors and maintaining healthy boundaries within spiritual communities. Jasmine emphasizes the need for accountability and highlights how betrayal within these spaces can lead to profound personal and communal disruptions.

---

Ancestor Work: Connecting with Lineage Sustainably

Timestamp: [40:11]

A significant portion of the episode focuses on ancestor work, where Jasmine provides guidance on how to connect with one's lineage authentically. She stresses that not all deceased relatives qualify as ancestors capable of providing spiritual support.

Jasmine Harris: "All of your dead relatives are not your ancestors... Some of them reincarnate back immediately because their work was not done."
[40:11]

Jasmine advises individuals to conduct thorough research on their ancestors, understanding their lives and relationships before attempting to establish spiritual connections. She warns against invoking ancestors without knowing their true nature and intentions, as this can lead to unproductive or even harmful spiritual interactions.

Jasmine Harris: "You can't put like this candle here with that because their relationships are still the same whether they're dead or alive."
[43:09]

By fostering informed and respectful ancestor work, Jasmine encourages a more meaningful and beneficial connection with one's heritage, free from misunderstandings and misplaced intentions.

---

Discussion on Hillman Talk and Community Dynamics

Timestamp: [55:14]

Shelah transitions the conversation to Hillman Talk, a community-driven digital HBCU space that evolved into a broader cultural movement. Jasmine recounts the challenges faced during a major event in Houston, where initial success gave way to internal conflicts and mismanagement.

Jasmine Harris: "People feel some type of way about people selling their courses... How do we make it circulate?"
[57:41]

The episode explores the difficulties of scaling community initiatives, particularly when external pressures like capitalism and differing visions come into play. Jasmine reflects on the importance of maintaining the original mission of fostering free, communal learning and the pitfalls of monetizing such spaces prematurely.

---

Practical Tools: Embracing Intuition and Accountability

Timestamp: [63:05]

In the toolkit segment, Jasmine offers actionable advice for listeners to incorporate into their own spiritual practices. She emphasizes the importance of intuition, urging individuals to never ignore feelings of discomfort as these are key indicators from their inner selves.

Jasmine Harris: "At the first sign of discomfort, never, ever ignore it... intuition is nothing but energetic pattern recognition."
[63:22]

Additionally, Jasmine discusses accountability, outlining how she maintains accountability through trusted friends and personal support systems. She highlights the necessity of peer review and thoughtful communication to prevent misunderstandings and foster a supportive spiritual environment.

Jasmine Harris: "My best friend and my boyfriend both have 365 vetoes... I have a good support system."
[29:10]

By valuing intuition and establishing reliable accountability measures, listeners are encouraged to cultivate a resilient and authentic spiritual practice.

---

Conclusion and Future Endeavors

Timestamp: [66:04]

As the episode wraps up, Shelah and Jasmine reflect on the journey shared and the lessons imparted. Jasmine announces her upcoming Houston Mixer scheduled for May 3rd, inviting listeners to join and continue the conversation on black spirituality and community building.

Jasmine Harris: "May 3rd, Houston, Texas. From 1 to 6 PM we are going to be hosting the mixer, the day party."
[66:04]

Shelah emphasizes the importance of sharing experiences and encourages listeners to engage with the community by sharing their own "unruly" stories, fostering a collective narrative of resilience and empowerment.

---

Notable Quotes

• Jasmine Harris: "Magic has to be real... if you believe enough, something will materialize."
  [03:50]

• Jasmine Harris: "There is a lot of taboo and a lot of hush hush around our sex lives as women... sex magic."
  [06:34]

• Jasmine Harris: "At the first sign of discomfort, never, ever ignore it... intuition is nothing but energetic pattern recognition."
  [63:22]

• Jasmine Harris: "I have a good support system."
  [29:10]

• Shelah Marie: "Please leave me a [e-mail] unruly the link is also in the description because I need to hear these unruly tales."
  [66:34]

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 27 of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE offers a deep and introspective look into Ebony Jasmine Harris's spiritual evolution, the challenges of maintaining authentic spiritual practices, and the resurgence of black spirituality as a source of empowerment and healing. Through candid discussions and practical advice, the episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners seeking to enhance their well-being and reclaim their true selves in a rapidly changing world.

---

Stay Connected

• Follow Jasmine Harris:
  • Instagram: @jasminegarden23
  • TikTok: @jasminegarden23
• Upcoming Event: Houston Mixer on May 3rd, 1-6 PM

Join the Conversation: Share your unruly stories by leaving a voice message at speakpipe.com/unruly

Stay unruly and continue your journey of self-love, acceptance, and holistic wellness.

Transcript

[Jasmine Harris]

Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. With family. Cannolis and spins mean everything. Now you want to get mixed up in the family business? Introducing the [e-mail] test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slots. Someday I will call upon you to do a service for me. Play the Godfather now at champacasino. Com. Welcome to the family.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No purchase necessary. VGW Group void where prohibited by law.

[Jasmine Harris]

21/ terms and conditions apply this weekend only at Macy's.

[Sheila Marie]

It's our lowest prices of spring. How low? Diamond rings, pendants and earrings only. $399. Originally 1,500 Ninja blenders now $89.99 and.

[Jasmine Harris]

$395 men's designer suits only $99.99. So if you're wondering why you should.

[Sheila Marie]

Shop Macy's lowest prices sale.

[Jasmine Harris]

Well, the name pretty much says it all.

[Sheila Marie]

It's our lowest prices for one weekend only. Starts tomorrow at Macy's. Savings off. Already reduced prices. Exclusions apply. Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly. Hey there, beautiful souls. Welcome back to Unruly. This is the space where we dive into the bold, transformative conversations that live at the intersection of culture, healing and radical self acceptance. I'm your host, obviously, Elm. And today's conversation is about what it means to be spiritually grounded and culturally awake right now. Because those are two things. It's hard to hold space for both of those things at the same time. Right now. And in this moment, so many of us are questioning everything from our relationship with religion, what we believe about power, how do we care for ourselves in this moment? How do we care for community? And I was like, who's the perfect person to answer this? None other than the amazing and talented and gifted Ebony Jasmine Harris. Welcome to the show. She's a medium, an eclectic occultist, a religious deconstructionist, and the brilliant mind behind the social media phenomenon. Her page, Jasmine's Garden. Jasmine isn't just a spiritual consultant to the stars, baby. She's a truth teller, a guide, and someone who's helping Us reimagine what spiritual power looks like in the midst of a world that's shifting.

[Jasmine Harris]

Amen. Can I get an amen? Amen.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. We're going to be talking everything from connecting with our ancestors, organizing, boycotting, and the rise and fall question mark of Hillman Talk and what this all tells us about. Girl, I saw the eye roll. What does this tell us about where we are and where we're going? Ebony, welcome to Unruly. I mean, let me say that again.

[Jasmine Harris]

Okay.

[Sheila Marie]

Jasmine, welcome to Unruly.

[Jasmine Harris]

Thank you. Thank.

[Sheila Marie]

I am so.

[Jasmine Harris]

I am.

[Sheila Marie]

Listen, I was like, oh, my God.

[Jasmine Harris]

The.

[Sheila Marie]

When you said yes to come on the podcast, I was like, yes, because I just think you have such a brilliant mind. I love hearing you talk. I love hearing your perspective. It's so refreshing. It's so unique. It's so uniquely you. Like, there's a lot of people who have opinions and pages on, especially on TikTok, which is a platform where a lot of people can grow. But to me, you're the type of person where, you know, you didn't get your thoughts from somebody else.

[Jasmine Harris]

No.

[Sheila Marie]

Like you. You internalized some shit, broke it down, and put it out. So let me start with an icebreaker, a little fun question. Okay. So what is something spiritual or intuitive that you believed as a kid, even though you didn't have language for it?

[Jasmine Harris]

Mm. That magic has to be real and in the sense of things that can be felt on a collective level. So I guess in church, it would be watching kind of the one band, one sound effect, people catching the Holy Ghost. But the same thing happens at concerts, so it's like people, one band, one sound in the same type of space. So watching how people connected in different ways over the things that they liked and feeling as if it was destiny or fate calling them to these experiences, like we were all meant to be here for this one thing. Seeing something or experiencing something that's not necessarily explainable and is not accounted for within the Bible, something that feels outside of what religion has shown me. Because on tv, I know growing up, I would watch the witches point their finger and something materializes. I never really thought magic was like that, but I did think there was enough to belief. If you believe enough, something will materialize. Which led me to my deconstruction journey. So. Wow.

[Sheila Marie]

How old do you feel like you were when you first had that realization?

[Jasmine Harris]

Maybe, like, 11 or 12. There was a group of us. Actually, it wasn't just me by myself. I will say that in our Sunday school class, and we were having this conversation with our Sunday school teacher, Shout out to brother Gary. And we were asking him, like, how do we know our friends aren't going to hell? Because we have friends that are not Christians, we have friends that are Muslim, we have friends that are Jewish, we have friends all over the place. Atheist friends. How do we know that they're not going to hell? Because why would God punish our friends, their kids like us? And he was struggling to answer. So he brought in our second Sunday school Teacher, shout out to Mr. Brother Maxer, that's what we call him. And he struggled to answer. So then I had to ask my daddy, the pastor. And he struggled to answer. And seeing all these adults struggle to answer me and our question seemed like, so no, there should be an answer for this. Like we're kids asking y'all. So y'all should have an answer to this. God should have provided an answer. It felt like either God didn't want to tell y'all or y'all don't know because God ain't say. And why didn't God say so it just kept us going. And after that, it was really downhill for everybody in that class.

[Sheila Marie]

So you started a revolution in there.

[Jasmine Harris]

We did, we did.

[Sheila Marie]

It's like you ain't got the answer. Sway, if you can't tell me.

[Jasmine Harris]

What.

[Sheila Marie]

Is the weirdest thing in your spiritual toolkit that actually works?

[Jasmine Harris]

My vibrator.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, I agree.

[Jasmine Harris]

Same, same.

[Sheila Marie]

So period.

[Jasmine Harris]

Everybody always thinks it's an herb. They think it's an oil. The vibrator.

[Sheila Marie]

Tell me more.

[Jasmine Harris]

So, sex magic. I feel like first off, there is a lot of taboo and a lot of hush hush around our sex lives as women. So we're supposed to have sex, but we're not supposed to talk about it, which leads to a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions. Especially if you go trying to find out about sex via like porn or something like that, you will be wholeheartedly disappointed. So it took a long time for me to learn about my own pleasure. And in that incorporating that into my spiritual journey, I learned because I grown, I guess I could say so I see manifestation differently. But if I'm not going to invest into my own pleasure, I'm not going to be able to pinpoint any pleasure the universe or my highest self or life is providing for me. Because I don't know what that looks like when I seek it myself. So it constantly being handed to me by somebody else or something else means. It's defined based off what they assume to be Pleasure. I need to seek, seek my pleasure out in the most raw and sometimes uncomfortable way because I've learned like via sex, whether self or in sync with somebody else, that sometimes I try to rush myself. So I use that back in a real world experience. Why am I rushing to get to this moment of pleasure when the entire process leading up can be enjoyable? If I were to learn to be patient, that need for immediate gratification is not necessary. So learning how to edge myself via sexual to train myself to learn. Okay, there's a process to get to whatever your end goal is. So let's enjoy the process that way. When people ask us about it later because it normally happens that way, we're not confused or we don't have an answer because we were just trying to hurry up and get here and things ended up being half assed. I don't want a half ass orgasm, so I don't want a half ass manifestation.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh my goodness. We shout out to Samiyah sexual essentials. She. Oh, you know Samaya too.

[Jasmine Harris]

She's here too. I was on her podcast.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, really? That's my dog. I love Samaya.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

At one of our retreats taught masturbation and manifestation. And she always talks about edging. So funny how much edging comes up where she's like, edging is such a core part of it. And those of you listening who may not know, I would describe edging as like, you get yourself to the point where you feel like you're going to orgasm and then you stop and then you build up again and then you stop so that by the time you do build up to an orgasm, it's much stronger. And Samaya would say, she would say, I'm paraphrasing. But Samaya would be like, if you got big goals, you need a big nut. So I love that. Okay, so flipping the script right now. We going straight from orgasm to. I'm going to talk about church right now, child. I think it is church in my opinion. But hey, so you are child. You're the second child of a pastor I've had on my podcast. I had Danielle Thomas, who wrote the Day God Saw Me as Black. She talked a lot about her deconstruction from harmful parts of Christianity. So if you guys are interested in hearing more about that, please listen to that episode. Not yout Grandmother's Christianity, but you are a child of a pastor, your father and an usher, your mother, and you were raised Christian. And I want to know, I am so curious what was happening with young Jasmine that led her to this Jasmine sitting in front of me.

[Jasmine Harris]

So it's so funny. I just talked about this on Live. I had this experience at the age of 16. I was home alone for the summer, basically, and I was supposed to be, like, doing summer school for, like, a class that I didn't take or something like that. But outside of that, I was just home all day by myself. And I think I was kind of going through a depressive episode because I was so lonely. Like, I didn't have interaction with anybody else until my sisters came home, until my parents came home. And outside of them, and until we went to church on Sunday, it was just me. So it was really isolating. And I think in that I was just having a lot of different thought streamings, and I don't even remember which one led to it. Besides, I'm tired of feeling like my family doesn't see value in me. I don't think they see me as smart because I don't excel in school the way that they want me to. And it's not because I wasn't smart. I was intentionally rebelling because I have issues with my family life. So it was just this weird cycle. So I had a breakdown in the middle of the living room floor, and I was just, like, crying. And I remember being like. I was screaming. I was really losing my shit. And I was like, God, make me wiser than Solomon. I want to be the wisest woman on this fucking planet. And I don't know what happened. I've passed out, like, maybe three or four times for one of the reasons or whatever reason. That was one of the days I passed out. When I came back to, I was just looking up at the family room or in the living room ceiling, and I was like, what am I doing on the ground? Because I was not, like, kneeling or sitting or anything. I was standing. So I was like, what am I doing on the ground? And I was like, okay. I don't know. My dog, she was under me again because I passed out in the kitchen. So she was underneath my head. She caught my fall or broke my fall again. And I was like, okay, maybe I should tell my parents. I keep passing out. But I was scared to tell them, so I didn't. But after that, there was just this thing when I would go to church where it was like, I fucking hate it here. And I was like, why, though? Because, like, I love my friends and I love God. I love God. I felt like Chris Rock. I think I love my wife. I think I love God. But do I Like, I'm not sure in this moment. I keep trying to find something that makes sense because I had a lot of atheist friends and they were like, you are too intelligent to be this stupid. And I hate being called stupid, dumb, anything of that nature. So I kept trying to figure out what were they seeing that I wasn't seeing. And I was just too deep into the cognitive dissonance, so I couldn't. But that's really what was going on. I went away to Bethune Cookman University when I was 18 and Chapel was mandatory. I didn't go. I got to school. School. I didn't have enough money to even stay. My uncle sent us $8,000. I was supposed to take it to the bursar's office. Didn't take it to the bursar's office. I used the money, started throwing parties, learned I could make money throwing parties. So I saw, going to class, I was like, this is still. This is silly. I might as well just be a party promoter. So they let me even come back second semester for whatever reason. So I stayed on campus for an entire year and people just knew me as the party planner and the party thrower because that's all I did was party. Even the staff knew me as the partier. So it was crazy.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. And you were not actively taking classes?

[Jasmine Harris]

I was. I was enrolled in classes. I was just not going. I didn't. I remember the last time I went to math class, it was like first semester, maybe the second month in or something to that nature. And I remember there was like an exam and I had been skipping, so I was like, oh, shit. I didn't know there was an exam and I didn't know what to do. So I was just answering what I could and what I couldn't. I was just making shit up. And I was like, I don't want to do this. Like, I just did this in high school. I didn't do it well and I don't think I'm going to do it well here because our teacher, he was very fast paced. He was super nice. He was just really fast paced. So it felt like asking him questions. And also I didn't really want to ask questions. I didn't want to be in school again. So, yeah, it was crazy.

[Sheila Marie]

So what did you end up doing?

[Jasmine Harris]

I flunked out. I ran away for a summer, came back and then from about 19 to 22, I was just kind of working different jobs. I was a daycare teacher three or four times. I worked for a call center. I Worked at.

[Sheila Marie]

I feel like everybody worked for a call center at one time, right? Sure.

[Jasmine Harris]

I worked at Burlington and Publix as a supervisor at Burlington and just cutting meat in the deli at publix. And then 2019. 2019, the year Nipsey Hussle was killed is the year my spiritual journey actually started. Because I had just seen his photos with Lauren London and their photos, like, of them on the horse. And I was like, ooh, this is so dope. And then it was April Fool's Day. It was literally March 31st. He was killed. April Fool's Day being the next day. I was like, oh, this is. This is fake. Somebody's running an April fool's joke. So April 2nd, I was like, oh, this is not a joke. Like, this actually happened. And mind you, I love Lauren London, but I wasn't. I can't say that I was like a Nipsey fan. It's not that I didn't listen to his music. It's just. It was never, like, really thick in my playlist like everything else was. But I remembered this just, like, in my gut and in my chest type feeling. I was like, what is going on? Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to look him up. Because at the time, I had this thing about looking up all my favorite celebrities because I was still in the church. And I was like, are they going to heaven? I don't know why that was, but it was. I was like, are you going to heaven? And I looked up Nipsey Hussle on YouTube. And, you know, YouTube will give you suggestions for other videos. And there was a video underneath the video I was watching about Nipsey Hussle, and I think it was his tattoo. The God will rise and prolific. Both of those stood out to me. And I didn't know why it felt like it wasn't Christian, but I was like, he said God, but everybody got a God that's not Christian, I guess. So I was trying to figure it out. There was a little bit in there about his mom. And the video suggestion underneath. His video was by a man named Brother Keston. And the title was how Christianity strips you of your spirituality. And I was like, I thought I was spiritual because I am a Christian. I clicked that video, and I have not been back to church in a regular participating service since.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Looking for excitement. Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime. Play anywhere.

[Jasmine Harris]

Play on the train.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Play at the store. Play at home. Play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play.

[Jasmine Harris]

Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now. Now to play hundreds of games, including.

[Sheila Marie]

Online slots, bingo, Slingo and more.

[Jasmine Harris]

Live the chumba [e-mail].

[Ryan Seacrest]

No purchase necessary VGW Group void where prohibited by law.

[Jasmine Harris]

21 plus terms and conditions apply. Because that video undid everything for me. It was like, why would your enslave or free you or give you the tools to free you? So on and so forth. And everything that brother Keston said in that video, where I'm at today, I would not agree. But where I was then, it was like, oh, this is a fucking eye opener. And now I have questions for my father. So when I brought it up to my dad maybe a few weeks later, because I had just gotten kicked out of the house and I moved in with my ex boyfriend. He's my ex boyfriend now, but I moved in with him and I needed some money. So I met up with my dad at a Walgreens or a CVS parking lot. And he was just asking me what's going on. I told him I got fired from one of my jobs. He said it was because I wasn't doing what God wanted me to. And then I brought up the video and what I saw or heard and how I felt. And he was like, you sound like them niggas in the barbershop. Da da da da. And he was so dismissive. It was like, why didn't you answer my questions? So I went home that night and I was really upset. And I said, God, Jesus, Muhammad, universe, whoever is out there, somebody please give me a sign, because I'm lost. All this information is coming in. I feel overwhelmed. And I've never questioned my faith before, but now I don't know where my faith is at. So I need some sort of guidance. And so I went to sleep and I had either Instagram or Facebook on my phone before I went to sleep. So, you know, you lock your phone and once you open it, it's back on the app that you were in. So I woke up and went to the bathroom, and as I was like scrolling, I was on either Instagram or Facebook, whichever one. And the first post, because it refreshed, as soon as I unlocked my screen, it was like, when the universe sends you a sign, believe it. And I was like, all right, all right, we're right. We gonna see what happens. Because I was like, God, if you want my soul, you Gonna come get me because you gonna let me do whatever this is to come back to you. Otherwise you done lost me. And I don't know what to do about it because I'm struggling to believe in you in the first place. And it's just been a journey since then. It's been crazy. You know what?

[Sheila Marie]

And I love that you share your journey with us. And you really have. It's not only that you have very novel and unique ideas, but you also have a very creative delivery of those ideas. And, yeah, you have such a gift for articulating your thoughts in, like a very fast, dense, poetic way. And when I. When I first encountered your content, I was like, is she an actress? And I just have to know. This is a selfish question. Where did you learn to hone your voice in this way? Are you, like, artistically trained in some way?

[Jasmine Harris]

So growing up in the church, I always just attribute it to being church life. I think a lot of PKs are actors and actresses because we didn't have a choice but to be. So I always had to learn how to deliver a message. I have been on the debate team. I was the.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, I love the debate team. I can tell. I can see the debate team influence. Yes.

[Jasmine Harris]

But before that, actually I was only on for one semester, but I was the president of the NAACP Youth Council, the Sarasota chapter. So I've done a lot of public speaking, like my entire life. What I really get it from is my father. So my father has this thing about, you need to be able to say whatever you want to say, teach whatever you want to teach, no matter what it is. Because even though we have different beliefs, he's been really supportive the last couple of years where he's like, a seven year old needs to be able to get it. A 13 year old needs to be able to get it. A 28 year old needs to be able to get it and every level up after that, all the way to your 80 and you're 90. Because if you can explain it to all of them, then you know what you're talking about. And so it's just been the way. My father was always very metaphorical. The moral of the story is this. Instead of like a fire and brimstone type preacher, he always had a lot of analogies. And I learned through his analogies that people also learn via analogy. So people always need some sort of correlation because when you're talking about the topic at hand, especially if it's touchy, they don't want to touch it. So you Got to bring something in that may not be as hard to deal with. That way you can be like, boom. You see how these two are the same thing? They're just different topics. It's still the same concept, and it makes it a lot easier to digest. I am a theater kid. I was never in any plays or anything like that, minus the church ones, because I didn't do the ones at school. But I am a.

[Sheila Marie]

One of us. One of us.

[Jasmine Harris]

One of us. So, yeah. Yeah, I'm just learning.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, well, you did learn, and it's. It's going well. When. So where were you? That's crazy, because I never would have guessed that you started your spiritual journey in 2019. I would have guessed way earlier a lot of times. Because you joined. You started popping on TikTok, like, around 2020, right?

[Jasmine Harris]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Where were you right before that? Like, what were you doing?

[Jasmine Harris]

So it might have been 2018, because it's. I gotta run the calendar back. Because I'm trying to remember 2020. We were already moved into our new place. So it's either 2018 I started, or 2019, but I'm pretty sure it's 2019. Yeah. Because I remember when Covid hit. So, yeah, it had to be 2019 right before that on Facebook, in the process of deconstructing. So I was on.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, so you were already sharing.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yes, I had started on Facebook. That's where I got my start at. And I was sharing all the things that I learned. And that first year of spirituality, I always call the sponge phase, you are absorbing everything because you're like, what is this? What is this? And I had a lot of conspiracy or how do you say? Conspirituality. I was deep into the conspirituality. So I like that conspirituality and the spirituality. But the problem with that is I ended up in a lot of the wrong, like, channels on Facebook. Like, a lot of the bigotry. A lot of people that were deep into IFA but were not initiated, so they were not properly trained verse. So they were just over there like, don't make me put oshun on you. And that's not how the orishas work. They're not your fucking attack dogs. So it was just a weird space to be in. There were the Facebook groups that were supposed to be spiritualists, but they're really just like. I think they're just very hotepy. And it was like, mech. The stallion's a man. Michelle Obama's a man. I was like, wait, A minute. This is not making sense anymore, because what is the point in all of this? What does this do for us at the end of the day? And it does nothing. So I had to get out of all of that because it was very toxic. And the side conspiracy.

[Sheila Marie]

The whole tech pipeline is strong, strong.

[Jasmine Harris]

And the psychosis that it triggers is insane because they have this thing where it was like, you're an elder God. We're here to save the planet. And I'm like, I'm here to save the planet. Whoa. Like, when did they name me God? So it was really hard because I formed a lot of connections via those groups, but a lot of the people that were in those groups had been in that mindset for a long time. So I had this download one day that sometimes the students surpass their teachers, and that's okay. And I was like. Because I was deconstructing coming from the church, getting into these spiritual groups that still had, like, homophobia, transphobia was not crazy to me because in the church is very homophobic, transphobic. So it was like. But the deconstruction of it all kept making me go, you have to critically think, how is this benefiting anything? And I had been called out, called in, and a few of my friends that I went to high school with were in the middle of transitioning, and they were like, people like you make us feel uncomfortable. So I took a hard step back because I was like, I never want the people that I give a fuck about to feel weird about the shit that I'm saying. So I want to identify, why am I saying this? And when I realized after a while, it was just, oh, this is what makes y'all feel empowered. So we're no different from white people. Next. That's when I started shifting out of those toxic roots into something that's like, okay, let's try to put something not. How do I say, explainable in the air, but basically, there needs to be some fucking logic behind this and not just your emotion. Because y'all just feeling differently from how this religion is, how that religion is, doesn't mean that you're right. And that's where I got to. I'm not gonna try to be right.

[Sheila Marie]

Your cognitive dissonance will kick in, and it will suck.

[Jasmine Harris]

It will. It'll keep you in that loop. So I was like, I'm not gonna try to be right. Instead, I'll just find points of resonation, and I'll understand that even though this resonates in a year, I'm probably Going to change my mind. And that's okay. That means it gets me to where I'm at right now. Because the only way to get to.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, wait a minute. So public. So publicly you have you disagree with yourself publicly?

[Jasmine Harris]

Oh, fuck yes. Oh, all the time.

[Sheila Marie]

Walk me through how you do.

[Jasmine Harris]

I might.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, we might learn something here today. I know a lot of women are scared to do things publicly because they don't want to make a mistake and they don't want it to be held against them forever. So what? How do you do it?

[Jasmine Harris]

I'm very open. First things first. Because of how bold and loud and crazy I was on Facebook, even before I left Facebook, we were already in the messed up. Mm, Mm. Let's shift. Let's shift. So I was being corrected online and correcting myself online because people cancel. Culture is very popular, but that's because there's a lack of accountability with the people that you're trying to cancel. I was not against being held accountable. I just needed somebody to make it make sense to me. Like, explain to me why this is wrong so I have the right understanding going forward. Because I'm just out here rocking with whatever the fuck I'm hearing, and that's not good enough. So now it's constantly being like, anytime I say something, even if it's like a spiritual download, I'll tell people, do not write this in stone. Write it down because you're hearing it as I'm hearing it. And if I'm channeling something, you might want to write it down, because if you ask me to repeat it, I won't remember because I wasn't speaking. I'm just speaking. So in that, I'll tell people, this is not written in stone. This is just what we're going to go with right now. Until we can find something that maybe has more meaning, more resonation, more logic to it. Or we can point out the flaws and why this is not correct. For example, I've been online recently talking about God is not a woman, and we should probably stop putting that shit on ourselves. And the women have not been liking that because it's the same reason men wanted God to be a man, to feel empowered, to be able to benefit from that. But divinity is something that is already inherently ours. We are already divine beings. You don't need God to be a woman, to be a representation of God. God, if anything, is probably non binary because God would have to represent every fucking body. So just because the Creator is how you are used to seeing it is normally through women there are seahorses. Because everybody was like nature, nature. And I was like, seahorses, male seahorses. They give birth. Are you bitches? Well, like we gotta start looking past what we think is our comfort zone because we're mad at the men. Like be mad at the men that have done you wrong. But don't use that as your basis for trying to restructure your power because now you're not building the power for the right reasons. You're doing it to spite them instead of to benefit you. And that doesn't work.

[Sheila Marie]

Well, that is absolutely true. And shout out to the seahorses. For sure, for sure. I love that.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

Who? Who? Accountability just came up. You just brought that into conversation. I just want to ask who can hold you accountable? Because you're somebody who has a lot there is. You share very controversial topics. You are very vulnerable online. You to me spiritually. I always wonder how do they do it? How do they be so vulnerable online with these topics and spiritually protect themselves? I feel like sometimes I don't even. I refrain from sharing certain things because the vitriol and the energy that comes back is like is it even worth to sharing? So it's partly a two part question. One is who can, who is allowed to hold you accountable? And then two is how do you protect yourself from all of that energy that that might come at you?

[Jasmine Harris]

Okay, first thing, I can't really say who's allowed to hold me accountable because if I've done something wrong to somebody, let's say I don't know yet, then that person will be able to hold me accountable. I'm not, I think about listen because I have a large platform. Even recently I just posted a video about two of my mutuals getting into it and everybody was like Jasmine. Oh, y'all won't say nothing to Jasmine because she has a large platform. I can be checked. I've been checked before. That's how I got here is allowing people to be like uh, or maybe what if Also like adding feedback to the conversation. Now normally my best friend versus my best friend and my man, they hold me accountable. So my best friend and my boyfriend both have 365 vetoes. Meaning if I'm coming off with ideas and they're like, uh, don't say that they get to use a veto. Sometimes they gotta use 20 vetoes in a day, but they have 65, one for each day of the year. So I don't wild out and say anything crazy. So I have a good support system. First. That way there's no one to have to hold me accountable on the back end because I've already been held accountable. Making sure something is peer reviewed. How would multiple people view this? Because a lot of people don't think about everybody. Anytime I say anything, because I've been a part of bigotry and nonsense before, I'm always thinking about, what if I was a part of this group, though? Would I feel some type of way about saying, like, how would I feel about that? Because it's very easy to just get caught up in your own emotions and not thinking about anybody else's. But I know I have a crazy guilty conscience when I feel like I missed this with somebody or, damn, I didn't mean for it to sound like that to somebody else. And I can't stand that feeling. So to avoid having to make up for it on the back end, let me get it right on the front end by maybe coming to you first and being like, hey, let's talk about this. Because I used to take everything to the Internet when I was on Facebook because you got a problem with me. Publicly, online, I got a problem with you. Now it's, let's try to backdoor this. Because if I bring it public, I know how my following gets. I do not like to weaponize my following because that's not what they're for. Oh, yeah, it's just supposed to be like minded individuals or not like minded individuals. That's just some way somehow have found my page and there's something that they like, which is why they're here. So in that, let me see if I can try to address these things privately. And if not, okay, here we are on the Internet.

[Sheila Marie]

She's like, I want to fire this shit up.

[Jasmine Harris]

Even then, I've learned to become more, I think, cool, calm, and collected in my response because I like the read. I love being the librarian. That's what they call me. So it's fun, but it's also, like, not necessary with every take. So in that figuring out when to do it now, how do I protect myself spiritually? I learned that when I go to start taking things personal, other people are either not taking it as personal as I am, or they are taking it as personal as I am. So when it comes to, like, how I share things online, like the things that I've done wrong, and like holding myself accountable, and how are people gonna feel? They already felt some type of way. I just didn't know it before I shared it. So now they're just sharing how they feel back. And it's no different from the thousands and hundreds of thousands of comments I've scrolled through where there's 10,000 people that are like, I love you. And four people are like, fuck you. And now I'm tore up on the inside. Why these four people don't even have a profile picture. I'm arguing with a bot. And not always there's real people out there that don't like me. But I can't sit with that too long because I hope to God you're not sitting with that too long because why do I take up so much space in your mind? You don't pay my bills because I'm not monetized on my platforms for a reason. So it's like you can't ever say that you did something to help contribute to me. So in that I just won't give you any attention. A lot of people think I spend a lot of time doing spiritual baths and my grounding is really just saying what I have to say. My protection, I think is in being vulnerable. Because the message will always find the people that are supposed to. Because normally if I'm being vulnerable and I'm sharing things, I like to talk anyways. But if I'm sharing shit I'm probably already nervous about, okay, how they gonna take this? And in that I think that's my protection and my safety because I have to talk myself off the edge anyways or the ledge and get myself to post it in the first place.

[Sheila Marie]

So it's almost like you're answering the call. And so as long as you're answering the call, they will, whoever is, they will protect you. You will be protected, you will be supported. I love that. I love that idea. Do you have any mentors or spiritual advisors that have shaped your journey?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It is Ryan Seacrest here. There was a recent social media trend which consisted of flying on a plane with no music, no movies, no entertainment. But a better trend would be going to chumbacasino.com it's like having a mini social casino in your pocket. Chumba Casino has over a online casino style games, all absolutely free. It's the most fun you can have online and on a plane. So grab your free welcome bonus [e-mail] sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Jasmine Harris]

No purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm crying.

[Jasmine Harris]

Oh Lord. I have had mentors in the past and they have for sure shaped my journey. They are no longer mentors that's where the.

[Sheila Marie]

What's behind that? What is all that?

[Jasmine Harris]

So Facebook, the groups I was talking about, there was the Elder Gods group. And I started off as a young God to them because they didn't know me. Then when they saw that I was already sharing things online and they resonated with the stuff that I was talking about, one of them kind of took me under her wing and she did my first reading and I learned a lot about myself. That crew, like, the entire crew themselves. I will never dismiss their individual gifts because there is something to those people because there's no way she could have known the things that she did. And there was even a time where I had a dream that she was in. I just talked about this on live. And when I woke up, she texted me. Like, she was the first text. Like, I opened my eyes. I was trying to, like, you know, come back too. And I heard my phone go off. I look over, I grab it. It's her. I immediately sit up. I'm like, you were just in my dream. She's like, I know I just told you to wake up. And it didn't. I. And I freaked the fuck out because that's literally what she said to me. Then I was panicking because I was like, these people obviously have gifts, but they were just. It was very clicky and very, oh, if you're with us, you're an elder God. And it was like, okay, there's something to this. And it got to a point where one of the guys and I were sharing messages around the same time as that Prince Michael Jackson thing. Ideas have a shelf life. If you don't say it, somebody else will. So him and I were normally just saying things in alignment because of the things that were going on. And he thought I was copying him. I thought he was copying me. And he's like, well, I don't even watch you. You a liar. I know you watch me. That's how we all became friends. So that was one crew. And then the last one was my former mentor, Brander, who didn't have a brand herself. She was really just this woman who saw my stuff online and she saw an opportunity to get in, promote herself. And I hosted a retreat in my house. And so nine of the women came and stayed in my house in Florida. And she was asking them for credit scores. She was trying to. She claims, nation built. She wanted them to buy her a house. It's a crazy thing. We have a documentary coming out called Surviving Ma because that bitch was crazy. It was truy. So scary to go through because to this day my best friend lives with me now she's downstairs. To this day we don't know what we did to this lady to upset her. She came and she basically just saw how I was living. And I don't want to say she doesn't come from a lot, but she doesn't come from a lot. And she was impressed by my ex boyfriend's 2002 beat up BMW convertible. It was the fact that it was a convertible. We drove over a bridge next to the water because I lived near the beach. And all of that just told her, oh, she got money, she got money and I had no fucking money. I was not rich. She knew how much we were making because we were working together with the same women. So she started trying to steal the women in the group by bad mouthing me. And she ended up taking a lot of them until it like took about maybe six to eight months for them to realize, oh, she's a leech. She's just mooching off of us. She lied on Jasmine. And then they started seeing me because I said, universe, if I was wrong, show me. Correct me. But if she was wrong, make it so that bitch can't escape me at any fucking turn. She always got to see my success because it's always going to be put in her face in a way that she can't help but see it. And even after she's dead and gone, let me keep thriving. So she's on the other side cringing because she missed out on an opportunity. Because I know I looked out for this lady. Because every first things first, all the women in the group have mother issues. We all had some sort of mother wound. And she came in and said, I know a lot of women in the group have mother issues, so I'll be the mama. She literally, Loretta Devine, I'll play the mama. And we were like, okay. And we all of us called her Ma. And we were like, ma, Ma, Ma.

[Sheila Marie]

And see, this is why it's hard.

[Jasmine Harris]

Groups.

[Sheila Marie]

I find it difficult to do groups. I can do them lightly. Yeah, even, even me with my retreats. I'm very aware of how people can idolize you. And I'm very, very much. Yeah, I think it's tricky. And she studied a lot of cults and it's.

[Jasmine Harris]

I think she said she had a degree in psychology or sociology. I think it was psychology. But basically she knew how to play on people's emotions and it was just a lot of crazy shit. So we went separate ways because once she left the house, that was one thing. My birth mom died when I was six. So when she was at the retreat, she gave me this fake diamond ring and was like, your mom came to me and told me to take care of you. Mind you, my mother doesn't come to anybody. She doesn't even come to me. So it was like, I know damn well my mom didn't come to you and say that. And that raised a red flag for me. So when she left the house, she didn't speak to me. My best friend drove her all the way home. She didn't speak to my best friend either. She got back and she blocked both of us. Mind you, when everybody got there, they drove down together. Everybody was cool. It was just her and one other girl that were not against seven of us. And we were all like, what the hell? So it was just a big ass mess. And in that, I was like, okay, if I have a mentor going forward again, it'll have to be somebody that I trust. Universe, you will basically have to keep throwing them in my space. Otherwise I'm not doing it no more.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, fair. That was a lot. That was a whole episode of Snapped or something.

[Jasmine Harris]

It was a Lifetime movie.

[Sheila Marie]

So let's talk about. I want to talk about ancestor work for a second. Yes. How do you explain ancestor work to someone who wants to start but maybe doesn't know where to begin? Or maybe they feel disconnected from their lineage?

[Jasmine Harris]

First things first. Shout out to my mutuals, IO and Simi, that own Bessie's conjure kitchen and Voodoo Bay, because my mutuals have talked about this extensively in ways that I have not. But first thing we like to say is all of your dead relatives are not your ancestors. So before you go trying to connect with somebody just because they've transitioned, they may not be people that count as ancestors. Because everybody that goes to the other side is not just there like in holding, waiting for you to need them for something. Some of them incarnate immediately somewhere else. Some of them reincarnate back immediately because their work was not done. Some of them don't want to be fucking bothered even if you could get into them. So that's something else to know. Just because they're dead, they're not different. You want to go from working with them first? Well, how do I know? Or how do the people that go to work with them know?

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, like, so let's say if I'm a person, I'm like, all right, I want to connect with my ancestors. But I'm not sure okay, you know what? I'm going to use myself as an example. So I am biracial. So my mom's side is Cuban, but white Cuban, not Afro Cuban. Okay. For that reason, I have never really connected with that side ancestrally, because I don't know what they're gonna be on. Like, you know, I'm not sure if the personality you have earthside transitions with you. I'm not sure if they even like black people. Like, I don't even know, you know what I'm saying? So how do you know which ancestors you should be communicating with or who are open to that or even want the best for you? Cause there's an assumption that our ancestors want the best for you. What if they don't?

[Jasmine Harris]

It's not. It's not. So basically, what you just did, assessing what you know about them and finding out as much information as you can get about them before working with them. Same thing people should do before trying to consult with other spirits, beings and deities. You should have as much information going forward because there's a relationship that you want to establish. So to me, it's like not wanting to call their spirit out of character. Almost like you don't want to call somebody by a name that is not theirs. So when it comes to, let's say, your ancestors that may not have liked white people, there is ancestral work to still be done on them to let them know. I will not perpetuate any of the agendas that y'all may have from the other side on this side. If there are any of you that support what I designed, what I have stated to be my greatest good, if you're in partnership, let's fucking do this. And everything that I will do will be in honor of you. And I will keep you in mind. Otherwise, don't play over here because you know I'll banish your ass. So that's. That's how I move now. I have ancestors that are very, very strongly Christian. So my witchy shit. I'm not going to go ask them about it because they can't help me with that. So that's what I try to teach people. Make sure you're going to the ancestor that makes sense. You want to make more money, and you're going to the uncle that had a gambling problem. How was that going to work? How is he supposed to help you? You think he knows about money now? Because he's dead. Impossible. Impossible.

[Sheila Marie]

So wait, let me pause you right there. That was always a question. I wonder. The personality, the experience that they Have Earthside. In my mind, I'm like, is it one of two things? So you transition, and now you're in the spirit realm, and you have access to all information, and you can just access everything. And you're just like a ghost up there, chilling and, oh, I can help you with this and I can help you with that. Or no, are you still bound to certain limitations that reflected the life you lived on Earth?

[Jasmine Harris]

I don't believe people are necessarily bound like they got to. I think sometimes they accidentally do. I think we have spirits that spin the block on accident because they don't. Some of them don't want to let go. So I tell people all the time, if you got kids, nine times out of 10, when you leave this motherfucker, if they're still here, you may want to spin back. And not even for your kids, but for the grandkids. Because people like to try to keep their lineage established and shit like that. Which is why people will say, oh, Granny came back in that baby. Or so on and so forth. But I feel like it's a transition not just because they left this vessel and made it to a different side. They're transitioning over there, too. So they're not fully accustomed. It would be like you just got popped out of your body. And now people. So some of them, if they're Christians, let's say they may die and they see their heaven first, and they're in what they perceive to be a heaven for a little while because it's a transition based off where their mental state was. If they were not open to a concept of something different, they have to be eased into the transition because they will buck against it. Which is why we have a lot of reincarnators. Cause they're like, fuck, no. So they go towards the light. That's the wrong light. Don't go that way. And now they're back in this place. So some of them, they are in the midst of transitioning. So, for example, my birth mom and my paternal grandmother, when it comes to issues I may have with my father, I can't go to them because they don't ever give me good advice. Because their advice is always based off the relationship that they have with him. I know him and my mom had problems before she died. And I don't really know what my grandfather, excuse me, my grandmother and my father's relationship was as a whole. It's just. It always feels like, uh, not my son. Yes, Granny, your son. So I just don't consult with her on that. Um, I have an uncle Stanley. He. I consider him to be my have some fun girl type uncle. But also, if I notice, I've been in that let's have some fun type energy for too long. Oh, I left you around too long because now I feel like I'm losing my sense of discipline. Because every time I'm supposed to have those reconstructive thoughts that send me back to a no, we got business to take care of you in the back of my mind, like, fun, fun, fun. So I try to pay attention to the ancestors that were more in alignment with me. And that's the other thing. Sometimes you won't know them by name. You won't be able to find them, but that doesn't mean that their energy is not still around. So you may have had an energy that was a healer or, excuse me, a ancestor that was a healer or an ancestor that liked to cook. And maybe you want to become, you know, a chef somewhere, learning how to call them through even if you don't know them by name and just being very specific in who you are lighting these candles for or putting up pictures for, understanding that again, their relationships are still the same whether they're dead or alive. So you can't put. If you know your in laws had beef, don't put grandma over here with grandma over there and wonder why you can't get any sort of reflection on your altar of what are they accepting or why is it this candle always goes fucking nuts, but this food doesn't spoil. Is it accepted or is it not accepted? You got too many energies clashing. So I have multiple altars around this house because they don't like to be together. Like Venus right here we have Venus over there. I had to move her into the bathroom because she only wants to be around water type energy. And I had her on the fireplace where I have another spirit who works with fire so it makes sense for her to be on a fireplace. So even with your ancestors. My mom likes sunlight. My uncle put him in the kitchen somewhere. He don't really give a fuck where he's at as long as people are having a good time wherever he's at. So it does matter to them. So I just try to tell people, learn as much as you can about your ancestors, okay?

[Sheila Marie]

Get informed before you just start talking to people and calling. Okay?

[Jasmine Harris]

Period.

[Sheila Marie]

You made a video and the hook was, if God's a woman, she's a bitch.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yep. Why? So I explained this a little bit earlier. Women are in this phase where they're like the divine feminine is returning. And I hate that. I hate divine feminine versus divine masculine. Because what people are really talking about is structure versus flow. When they think of divine feminine, they're thinking of a creative energy or they're thinking of a justification to their anger. So chaos energy, just be fucking angry. It's the same reason the women are like, oh, Lilith. Lilith reached out to me. Lilith did not reach out to you. Lilith is an egregore for all the women that have been scorned, done wrong, that have invested their energy into this idea of a woman that had this energy. It's just us. So just go ahead and partake in that. So God needing to be a woman again. God would be non binary, if anything, to represent everybody. And that creation energy is not just limited to women. So divine feminine is not returning. Divine feminine never left. Because if divine feminine is just now returning, the world will look really, really different. And it's already bad in anyways. So in that I feel like deconstructing. Why do you need God to be a woman? My mutual no nonsense spirituality.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh my God. That was my next question. Literally, yes, referencing when you referenced her because she's one of my favorite creators to follow.

[Jasmine Harris]

Phenomenal.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, she's. I learned something every time. So yeah, no nonsense spirituality on, on Instagram and TikTok, guys. She, she's. Is she an atheist? I believe she is an atheist, but she's a scholar.

[Jasmine Harris]

It reminds me of atheistic spiritualist. So there is something where it's like, maybe there is, because this world is really fucking weird and I don't want to believe that we're just a combination of molecules that randomly assemble themselves. But also, I cannot account for anything. And everything that I see reminds me of us, which means it must just be us. So I think that's where she kind of falls at. But she had that video talking about how she can tell what type of God people believe in based off where they're at. So if you were in areas that were heavy into trade, you need gods to be polytheistic and tolerant so people can get along, so we can trade. If you're in a place where we need an oppressive regime so we can control the people, God is going to be, well, a monotheistic and then very omniscient, omnipresent. That way you're always under this controlling monitoring state. So her being like, if the weather was unpredictable, Gods are intolerant. It's just so many different things. Or temperamental. That's what she said. And it was like, wow. So recognizing that made me realize, hmm, why did men need God to be a man? Because Merlin Stone has that book when God was a woman, talking about how the deities in society started off as matriarchal figures, but that was because women knew themselves to be the creators of life. So they just assumed that whatever created us looked like them. And that makes sense. But the problem with spirituality is people want to deconstruct religion and not spirituality because they believe spirituality has no flaws to it, because it makes them feel good. But a lot of the things that are a part of spiritual aspects and pagan aspects come from people not having understanding for something and trying to understand their surroundings, their lives at the time. For example, last year I posted a video talking about the eclipse and how the eclipses are not bad omens. Of course, they used to say that the eclipses bring bad omens to them because they were staring into the fucking sun and they would go blind because they didn't know better to not stare into the sun, to not go blind. So in that, they egregord an omen around this eclipse. So now you could say that there's some energy if you invest into it, but it's the same thing as the Christmas spirit. If enough people believe in something, you will start to fear if there or feel it. If there were 20 people in a room and somebody was like, you hear that beeping noise? It would only be a matter of time before everybody hears a beeping noise that's not there, because that's how impressionable and malleable our minds are. So I try to show people, when you're looking at, you know, anything, whether it be religious or spiritual, deconstruct, because a lot of these people just didn't understand what the hell was going on. So their gods created the understanding. It was something to help themselves soothe. So God needing to be a woman right now is because women feel like our rights are being stripped away, things are being taken from us. And they're trying to feel empowered by being like, see, somebody called us to this position. Somebody put us in charge, Sister, just be in charge and get it done. Because when you trying to show people that something established you versus you establishing yourself, I can see you establishing yourself. But you trying to convince me that a God put you here because I can't see your God. I just see you. Because that's actually the video that came before is why I have a few pastoral friends that are like, why can't we get people in church? The matriarchs of their families are dying.

[Sheila Marie]

Correct. They believe she's the one that brought everybody.

[Jasmine Harris]

Exactly. The glue to the family is also the glue to the faith. They are the gatekeepers. You cannot have religion without women. Men teach religion, women uphold it. Because every. I'm getting chills. Everybody always believes through Grandma because Grandma believed enough for everybody. So when Grandma died, nobody comes to the church again. Why? Because they can't get that feeling that they got when Grandma would say something that would convict them. Because what they really didn't want to do was disappoint Grandma. Damn the chills. They didn't care about disappointing God. They didn't want her to be upset and her upset was enough upset. So they just said God. But it really is Grandma. So in that women, why do we want God to be a woman? Because we want to feel empowered, we want to feel special, we want to feel divine and we want to feel like we're going to get our fucking lick back. Just get your lick heavy.

[Sheila Marie]

Lick back. Heavy on the lick back.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

So you're just saying take it out from this, this concept above and put it in below for sure. AKA you. You get your lick back.

[Jasmine Harris]

Because I explained if God is a woman, there are one or two things happening and both are going to be disappointing. One, God is, as a woman, not all powerful, which means she can't intervene to help us. I don't want to hear that shit. That's not going to help me tonight, so don't tell me that. Or two, she is all powerful and she could intervene and she's choosing not to. So she's fucking us over. Fuck her. So it's the same concept. I don't want God to be either or. Because when I think of God as a non binary being, I think of them as somebody that's just consciousness that gave us the ability to create the way they create. But they don't really have a good or bad system. They are everything, which is something that accounts for all of us. Because you see people that are good, that have bad and people that are bad that every now and then do good or never do good, it don't even matter. But all of us are here. Which means if God is a representation of all of us, God is all of us. And that's scarier because what does that mean for God? So instead of trying to be like God is this being that feels this way and that God is just consciousness. And I think that consciousness or consciousness is so far removed from a governing state, it doesn't even Think about governing. That's very human. It's almost like when we try to talk about aliens. Every time we talk about aliens, we think they're going to be beings we can see. When we put those rovers and shit on Mars, we probably ran through 16 alien kitchens. And we can't tell because they're probably gaseous beings or something that we wouldn't be able to determine. So us thinking that we know everything. I play that always back into religion. We think God is supposed to have phalanges. Why? Why does God need to look like us? What are we doing? So, yeah, I try to remove anything too human.

[Sheila Marie]

I love that. Okay, so let's switch it up and talk about him and talk for a second. So for those of you who don't know, I'm gonna try to break it down the best I can, Jasmine. And if I get anything wrong, just feel free to interrupt me.

[Jasmine Harris]

Okay?

[Sheila Marie]

So Hillman Talk, for those who don't know, it started as this digital HBCU space. And the name Hillman Talk is a blend of the fictional university from a different world, the 1980s sitcom period.

[Jasmine Harris]

I know, my parents love it.

[Sheila Marie]

I had to do that.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yep.

[Sheila Marie]

So yeah, okay, so you had Hillman University and TikTok became Hillman Talk. This was like in January. And so it started accidentally actually by Dr. Barlow and she shared a syllabus online. And then it just became this really beautiful, free flowing, community led amorphous space where people were teaching classes about black culture on TikTok and maybe people were teaching about herbalism to finances, to gardening and so on. And so Jasmine was like, oh, this is beautiful. Like community. Yes, that's what I'm about. And you can only take online communities so far, so I'd love to bring it offline and in person. And so Jasmine was like, let me plan an event. End of February. Started out thinking there was gonna be about 150 people. Turned out to be over 10k RSVP. So yes, congratulations on that. Now that I hear you're an event planner, it makes all the sense. Yeah, you self funded this event, by the way. Okay. Produced it by yourself. And then also found a way to give $500 grants to Black students. In the meantime, what can go wrong?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Guys, hello, it is Ryan. And I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on chumbaccasino.com. i looked over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing? They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence? I think not. Everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino is home to hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free anytime, any, anywhere, even at 30,000ft. So sign up [e-mail] to claim your free welcome bonus. That's chumbacasino.com and live the Chumba life. No purchase necessary. VGW prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 18+.

[Sheila Marie]

Somewhere along the line it just came. It was like this really cool thing where people were just learning and sharing and Jasmine wanted to produce this dope event to all of a sudden, wait a minute, Hillman talk is my, my thing. I own the trademark. And then capitalism entered the chat. So from your perspective, Jasmine, what went wrong?

[Jasmine Harris]

So first things first. I did not produce by myself. Funded by me. Yes. But I have the seven sisters. That's our team. Oh, yay. My best friend, my assistant, Paulette. My event planner, London, Jacinta and Landis and Terrica. We had a group of black women that came together and we were like, bitch, we got each other. We gonna get this done. So what went wrong? I think so. A lot of people that are not used to having a platform or having attention when they get it, they don't really know what to do with it. So that self importance kind of takes over. And I don't want to dig at where it all went wrong because in the conversations that I've had before and after, it's been brought to my attention and made very clear that the person that kind of led it all astray is not.

[Sheila Marie]

Representative of the whole.

[Jasmine Harris]

Representative of the whole. But how do I say this? I don't ever want to go after anybody with some sort of, how do I say this social awkwardness where it's just she doesn't know how to be amongst the crowd. I don't really know how to say that.

[Sheila Marie]

We get what you're picking.

[Jasmine Harris]

I think it was a lot for her. So at first it was beef because it was like she told me she was trying to basically emulate me when she called me out in her video and I was like, that's not how you get my attention. Because I'm thinking you just trying to start beef with me. And that's how everybody else took it too. So everybody else was still pretty upset about it. But I've, Sierra and I have talked and I have let it go. She has apologized and her team, the people that she was not really representing that were really doing the work, Anna and the advisors, Leah, so on and so forth, all of them they were in disagreement with the things that she was saying and posting. So she was kind of just running the page. And they were like, no, we're running this, trying to make it something that works. So it all just kind of came crumbling down. And now I think the problem is a lot of the professors, they're trying to do it for a coin. And it was supposed to be something that was free. And everybody's not in a position to be able to do things for free, which is why they're selling their courses.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, it's tricky.

[Jasmine Harris]

People feel some type of way about people selling their courses, in my opinion. I didn't feel away, don't buy it. But yeah, if it is, then go ahead, because what? We always talk about circulating money through the black community, and then we get scared to give money to each other. And I get it. We just had that weird girl with the Black Project. 2025, $100,000 was raised, and she took it and invested into a fucking bitcoin that nobody asked for. It's like, okay, this is not what you were supposed to do. So I see why people are skeptical. But even before then and after, people have always just been kind of like, I'm not giving y'all my money. And it's like, so how do we make it circulate? Because people saw me funding this, and before, I guess some people didn't know I was funding it. So they were like, oh, Jasmine's just trying to make money off this event. I have $5,000 saved up. And we were supposed to go to Joshua Tree and have a good old time, get high in the desert, because Joshua Tree is one of my favorite places, and I didn't get to go anywhere for my birthday. So that's what we were supposed to do. And I was like, either I could teach a class for Hillmantop, or I could throw a party, because I like shaking ass. So I was like, fuck it. I'm gonna throw a party. So I did a shit ton of readings to raise more money, and that's how we got the money that was needed to be able to get this space and get everybody that we had to pay for there. And people were like, she's doing this for money. Then we raised $32,000, and we're giving it away. And they're like, oh, she wasn't doing it for money. So now we're doing another one in Houston. And it's like, yes.

[Sheila Marie]

In May.

[Jasmine Harris]

Yes. And people want to know, like, well, what is she getting out of it? Exposure I have learned as an influencer and I've learned as a celebrity spiritual consultant. Sometimes you don't sign the contract and get the check. You go ahead and get people's attention, you capture their attention. That way they can see she's going to do this whether we pay her or not. Yeah. Because there's something in the long run that's going to benefit me because, I don't know, maybe one of these people we give $500 to is gonna fuck around and create something that benefits all of us.

[Sheila Marie]

Correct.

[Jasmine Harris]

How? Why would I ever wanna be in the way of something that may benefit me even if I can't see it just now? So in that it's like, I'm gonna get the exposure. Cause I already have. I've had opportunities to work with people that would've never known about me had they never had the opportunity to be at this event, to know about the event. So in that. That's how I tend to look at things. So I think smart people just kind of get caught up in the money. And I've touched a lot of money before. Like I said, I flunked out of school because I was making too much fucking money. So I'm not used to having money. So I don't get weird when it's around. And I think that's not the experience for a lot of people. So. Okay, fair.

[Sheila Marie]

That was a very beautiful answer. I love that. Very evolved of you. So. Okay, now we've reached the toolkit part of the episode. And this is where you give a tool for the ladies to put in their unruly toolbox.

[Jasmine Harris]

Ooh. Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

So if you were going to leave any tool for the ladies, what would you leave them? It could be people have, like, have done affirmations. People have done practices, just a little anecdote. Whatever you feel like.

[Jasmine Harris]

Okay. At the first sign of discomfort, never, ever ignore it. If something makes you feel uneasy in your system. And I know we're anxiety bunnies out here because I got. Got the worries. I got the worries. As the old people would say, my nerves is bad. But in that sometimes we are ignoring our intuition because we want our intuition to be loud. We want her to yell at us. She dies when things are in great. In grave danger. But she tries to give you a warning beforehand. And sometimes it just sounds like a hey. And you wonder why that person spoke to you. It feels like that. And that's how our intuition is so at that hey. That little inside feeling of discomfort that. Hmm. I wonder if that was intended to be microaggressive. I wonder if that was intended to be a dig. I wonder. It doesn't mean go ahead and just assume that person is bad or anything like that, but just keep it in your back pocket and pay attention to other feelings that feel like that. Because intuition is nothing but energetic pattern recognition. So you felt this before, just in a different situation, which is why it's confusing sometimes, because it's like, no, this is different. No, it's not. It's the same feeling. And you need to pay attention to that because that'll tell you everything that you need to know about the situation before it unfolds and you find out you were correct. So just pay attention to that uneasy, because I've ignored a lot of the uneasy. Trying to be nice, trying to be kind, because there's a difference between the two. Trying to make sure that I wasn't blocking any blessings. If that blessing wants you, it'll knock your ass over to give it, to give itself to you so you don't have to worry when it comes to sacrificing. How do I want to say this? If you're trying to make sure you're not going to miss an opportunity, if it is truly meant for you, I don't think you will miss that opportunity. Especially when you protect yourself and you keep yourself safe enough by listening to your intuition to make sure you're around to have that opportunity. Wow.

[Sheila Marie]

This was such a powerful conversation. Thank you. This was such a powerful conversation, Jasmine.

[Jasmine Harris]

Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

Thank you so much for reminding us that spiritual practice can be radical, rooted and deeply relevant in the world that we're living in right now. You gave us so much to think about.

[Jasmine Harris]

I know.

[Sheila Marie]

If you're listening to this episode, you gotta re. Listen. Okay?

[Jasmine Harris]

You gotta re.

[Sheila Marie]

Listen one more time. Send it to your friends, share it with everybody so we can keep these unruly conversations going. And Jasmine, what is next for you? I know that you have your Houston mixer coming up in May, so tell us, where can people find you? Where can people follow you and support you?

[Jasmine Harris]

Um, well, you can follow me and support me on Instagram. T H E Jasmine's garden. We have 386,000 followers over there. We're verified TikTok. As long as they keep it around and don't ban it this weekend again. So Jasmine's Garden 23 there. 3.7 million and counting. May 3rd, Houston, Texas. From 1 to 6pm we are going to be hosting the mixer, the day party. But that's where y'all can find me. That's where y'all can find me. Awesome.

[Sheila Marie]

Well, thank you so much for joining us at Unruly. And before we end, I just want to say I want to hear from you. Okay?

[Jasmine Harris]

Okay.

[Sheila Marie]

I am planning a special episode so I want to hear about the most unruly thing you've ever done. I literally need to. Okay, this is the only thing I want for my birthday is for I want you too, Jasmine. If you want to leave a message, anybody listening? I would love it. You would share what is the most unruly thing you've ever done? Is it walking away from a toxic friendship? Leaving a job? I don't know, a solo vacation? Something even more spicy? Please leave me a [e-mail] unruly the link is also in the description because I need to hear these unruly tales. I'm living through you all. All okay? And stay unruly until next time. If you have something on your mind, a question or something you want me to answer, just send in a voice [e-mail] unruly I can't wait to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you never, ever, ever, ever miss an episode of Unruly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on chumbacasino.com I looked over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing? They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence? I think not. Everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino is home to hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free, anytime, anywhere, even at 30,000ft. So sign up [e-mail] to claim your free welcome bonus. That's chumbacasino.com and live the Chumba life. No purchase necessary. BTW terms and conditions 18 plus.